yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Saygus V²] SymbianRefugee:
Yes, I agree.

Why would they ship the first batch this month then wait another 2-5 months to start shipping the Crowd Funded phones?

Once production is up and running it should be easy to get more phones run each time a certain number of orders is reached. My guess is that they'll do all the pre-order and crowd funded in one production run and ship the pre-orders first - meaning we'd get them a couple days before the crowd funded phones sometime late in the year.

V1 was delayed and delayed and delayed until it was so outdated that it was scrapped, V2 seems to be heading the same way.... sad to see actually.
[Saygus V²] halkhali83:
Discussion Point ...

To kill the waiting time, I want to discuss this issue with you guys, especially the ones with a good business background.

Today is the first day since the start of Indiegogo campaign when no one funded Saygus. The contribution keeps slowing down day by day.

By the end of this campaign in the next ten days, I guess the total orders number would be fewer than 2000 and the total funding amount is almost $1.3 million. That means, Saygus is successful to collect 350K of this grand marketing campaign.

What I know so far, the smartphone manufacturing business is so tough. Many great companies is losing money right now or at least don't generate a good profit margin. Like what is happening with BlackBerry, HTC, Mororola, and Sony. Some giant companies are out of that bussiness like the legend ''Nokia''. These companies used to sell millions of phones every month and generate a revenue in billions of $$. However, they are still deeply suffering in this bussiness.

The most important question in this statement is "How Saygus can create a profitable business and manufacture > 2000 units with only $1.3 million?

Seriously?

I live in the US and I can only imagine that I can make a small business with $1 million, NOT a phone manufacturing business!

I do have many perplexing questions related to what is happening with Saygus right now:-

- What is the current operation cost for Saygus? Employees salaries, Manufacturing cost, Advertising cost?

- They accept to ship worldwide, so they need ''Universal Warrant centers''. These centers require extensive installation cost, how could they afford the building and operating process of the centers, while they are having only hundreds of orders?

- After sale services cost? warranty services cost ? software management, optimization, and updating cost ?

- Returned phones refurbishing, and the later inventory writing-down?

- If the phone is gonna be available by Christmas, how can Saygus continue to sell the V2 at $600 when this phone would be an average handset compared to the hero phones that are gonna be available at that time?

- Which manufacturer would accept to make only 2000 phones without asking for a big profit margin?

If everyone wants to imagine this as a real smartphone manufacturing business, they can not believe it with all these scarce outcomes from Saygus.

I personally think they can't achieve the announced goal at all. However, I truly don't know the real intention of Chad Sayers.

What do you think guys?
[Saygus V²] dkryder:
probably hopes to find a buyout partner. otherwise it will most likely be a failed attempt. earlier chad said that he had millions in backing so it was either a lie or the backing was withdrawn. your case is very well laid out, btw. in the end he probably has maybe a hundred phones that have no fcc or other certification. no usa carrier certification. no google certification.
[Saygus V²] theleftykid:
i bet this is going to fail. vaporware is real.... and i am not telling this to those who still hold on to the preorders and idgg.. it is just my opinion.
[Saygus V²] vertigo_2_20:
You're missing a couple very important points. First of all, they're not running the business on the money from preorders. That's just a boost to help them out. Their main financial support comes from one or a combination of the following: Chad's personal net worth (apparently he did well in real estate a while back), business loans, personal loans, independent backers, and in extreme cases, credit cards. In fact, I suspect the IGG campaign may very well be a desperate attempt to resupply the cash reserves to keep them afloat until they're able to complete production and ship. The second important thing to keep in mind is that most businesses are NOT profitable at first. Many, in fact, lose money initially. They have to keep their heads above water long enough to start turning a profit, and eventually they (hopefully) become successful to varying degrees. The majority of small businesses fail. For Saygus to succeed, they would have to sell enough phones and limit their costs enough so they could survive until round two, where they would hopefully do better, have lower costs, and sell more phones due to brand recognition from their first phone (the V2). This is, of course, dependent on the V2 actually being well-received. If they can get this far, their odds of success increase dramatically.

And they have the right strategy, IMO. Part of what's killing HTC/Moto/etc is the cheap phone market, but there is still a big market for people looking to spend more on a phone that's worth the extra money, but those are the type of people that also don't want to spend that kind of money on a phone that's locked down. People that are interested in flagship phones, which they are going to spend $500+ on, want a phone that's THEIRS, not the manufacturer's and carrier's. They want a phone they can do whatever they want with it. People that don't care about that are going to buy either an iPhone or a cheap Android or Windows phone. That, combined with the (when announced) great specs and features, is why the V2 has a lot of potential. And even if it were released now, it would still be the only phone with some of those specs and features, not to mention the combination of them, and all in a reasonably-sized form factor.

Of course, I'm still not sure Saygus' goal is to actually succeed. With all the loopholes that exist in the business world, anything's possible. Certainly, if they really do mean to be successful, they need to seriously rethink their strategies, and the odds of them failing climb significantly every month they don't ship.
[Saygus V²] alexanseris:
There are many good points here. I actually don't agree with Vertigo about how business starts and when it would be profitable.

Smartphone manufacturing business is totally different from others and never was a flexible business. If it is not profitable from the beginning , it can't ever catch up later. It is an extremely competitive arena. Nokia went from being world's largest phone manufacturer to out of business because of the late action. After six months from now, the V2 would be a mediocre phone (among many hero phones from the giants), and it would be impossible for Saygus to sell it at a good profit margin (with only 2K orders, they are currently not doing well at all). Moreover, Chad is not taking his personal net worth or loans to throw them on a failed and risky business. If he had that money, why did not Saygus ship the first pre-orders instead of going to Iniegogo?

I was so skeptical about Saygus when they accept to ship internationally and they did not EVEN exclude North Korea from the shipping list. Very big companies are not able to ship worldwide simultaneously!.

I 'm almost sure they did not start any manufacturing process yet. They only made these three demo units.

I basically don't know their aim of collecting this million $, but 'm confident V2 is another vaporware.
[Saygus V²] TonyStark R.I.P.:
However the pre-order was based on a release date of May 22. Now had they said May 22 2016, things would be different.

When I pre-ordered, it came with the expectation I would have a device in hand by May.

Most companies offering a pre-order, normally charge your account upon shipment of product.

I ask you, do you not even see the similarities between the Vphone and what is happening now?

There are people on both sides of the coin. Those with hope and those that understand (past history) the reality of the situation.
[Saygus V²] vertigo_2_20:
Nokia didn't go out of business. They lost a lot of market share and undoubtedly a lot of money, but they're still around and planning a comeback.

I'm not saying that Chad invested his own money into it, but just pointing out one of many possibilities. Not to mention I'm fairly certain I read or saw somewhere that he's able to do this because of his personal assets that he built up in real estate. And if he did in fact invest his own money, all the more reason to do the IGG campaign, since he really wouldn't want the business to flop and to lose all his money and have to declare bankruptcy. The truth is, nobody here knows. But most people do contribute some, if not a large portion, of their personal assets to starting a business. Whether it's cash or just using their assets as collateral for a loan.
[Saygus V²] waterplanet:
Maybe they need to go down in price, but remember that there is actually very little competition in the niche the V^2 Saygus are trying to operate in. Smartphone "power users" wants a phone that is easy to root, has stock android, removable battery, good battery life, lack of bloatware, external sd card, dual boot from sd-card, and so on, and are willing to pay extra to get features like this. Unless another similar type of devices is released in the meantime it might not matter that much that AverageJoePhone 7 has more ram or a newer processor.

V^2 might also sell some phones based on specific features like sunlight view-ability (if it works well), water proofing, the overall size and dimensions of the phone, selfie camera, the WiHD might sell some devices, if the noice cancellation works well, this might be a selling point. In the end I think we need to see the final device and reviews before we can make any conclusions.
[Saygus V²] dkryder:
does anyone know what type of receiver for the Qi charging the V2 uses? it does not appear to be built in on top of the batteries in the videos i have seen so that means it is in the back cover in some fashion as to avoid interfering with the fractal antenna or via a third party pad. in the video about the Qi charging it just shows the device being placed on the station and makes no mention of the receiver.
[Saygus V²] FabianFR:
I was really looking forward for this phone.. I would have even prefered it over the upcoming Nexus devices.

But now, after all the delays, I'm not willing to spend a rather larger amount of money to preorder a phone from a company thats struggling even before the phones released..

Due to the period of time during it's announcement and the actual release.. the used components are still a unique combination out of a geeks dream, but to be honest.. Parts of it are already outdatet..

(SD 801, no Typ-C etc)..

Soo.. next Nexus: here I come :P Until then my N5 does its job pretty good.
[Saygus V²] pah2602:
It does have USB Typ-C

Allegedly
[Saygus V²] shaxs:
Hah, so true...Allegedly. Allegedly there is a phone too.
[Saygus V²] SymbianRefugee:
Does the video show Qi charging, or does it just demonstrate a brick being placed on a Qi charger?
[Saygus V²] hdtechk:
Wireless chargers all work the same some may have different out puts but all work the same
[Saygus V²] FabianFR:
I'm sorry, you're right.. Did not notice that they announced it during their crowdfunding campaign :)

Takes the phone one step closer to perfectness... but the CPU still bothers me... If they replace it with an 808 I'll be the first one to pre-order haha
[Saygus V²] Soltkemecsei:
A few days ago Darth, forum moderator asked to "keep the thread constructive and respectful".

I do not see any respect in your above statement, you simply declare that those who agree with you are the ones who understand the reality.

This is what many of us feel as negative post.

You as a forum moderator should have a clear understanding of this.

It is nonsense that someone can say like "I'm a photoshop master and I see artifacts around the logo, they are liars", and if someone asks, "wait, these are artifacts that most modern phones produce due to their built-in post processing algorithms, and these images were uploaded to twitter, where they also apply a set of size-optimizing image processing". Then the response is that "lmao, you are a tool, rotfl a robot, lol a consumer zombie ...". And even when the videos published later clearly show that the logo is there, and is not photoshopped, these wannabe experts go on with their childish attitude. Most anyone else would have silently go away after such a fiasco, but they keep on doing their show, assisted by you, as a forum moderator.
[Saygus V²] zelendel:
That was in now way negative at all. He simply stated a fact. You do have 2 sides to the coin. One with people holding out hope and one with people that see the reality of what is going on. Hope is a powerful thing and can easily blind people to the truth.
[Saygus V²] possibilis:
And it is so funny to observe how "reality" changes for 180 degrees after moderator canceled preorder.
[Saygus V²] SymbianRefugee:
History lesson seems in order, Saygus have been here before in the same situation, too point this out is not being disrespectful.

Saygus past history http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2391036,00.asp

"Remember the Saygus VPhone? A powerful Android smartphone, it got a lot of press in late 2009 and promptly vanished. Coming from a company nobody had ever heard of, we anointed it one of "6 Amazing Cell Phone Failures" in early 2011."
[Saygus V²] zathus:
If this was some super innovative technology. The wait might be worth it. The problem is, it's not. It's simply a phone with a lot of everything but that everything can get outdated. Sad truth is the longer they wait to launch this the more outdated the technology in the phone becomes. 808? 810? By Xmas these CPUs will no longer be in the latest and greatest. so then now you have a new phone coming out with last year's chip. And not a good one at that. Not to mention seems that really need to be put through their paces haven't even been tested. 1 is the camera. HTC is the perfect example of a company that can put an excellent camera and our phones but not have the software to back it up.
[Saygus V²] dkryder:
well, if it is a brick then it is a brick with a tone and light

---------- Post added at 07:45 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:34 PM ----------

but they all do not have the same receiver design. industry has 3 concepts at least. the receiver is generally placed over the battery as part of thephone structure, built into the back cover of the phone, or built into a pad which can be placed inside the back cover or outside the back cover. i was asking which design saygus is using.
[Saygus V²] SymbianRefugee:
The circus continues, I opened a ticket asking for a refund, they sent me an email...... asking for my email address :(
[Saygus V²] chrisingrassia:
You're making the assumption that customers are getting a refund because they can't afford it. Not to start an argument, but if they can't afford it, then they wouldn't have bought in the first place. Obviously not the case. Perhaps you don't realize that a large # of pre-orderers actually have principles and expectations? Literally, I pre-ordered that phone FIVE months ago.....and it still ain't out..:confused:
[Saygus V²] vertigo_2_20:
I didn't make that assumption at all. I stated that there are people in that category, but also that people that can't afford it probably shouldn't do preorders. And I also said "another scenario would be that if somebody needed a new phone by now, even if they could afford to buy one while Saygus still had their money, it should not fall on them to then have to essentially buy two phones..." I know a lot of people that preordered, myself included, can afford to buy another phone even with the money tied up in the preorder. But that doesn't mean we should have to. And in my situation, I needed a new phone, since my previous one broke. I could manage for a while with a cheap temp phone, but only for so long. Not for several months. Does that mean I should have to spend more money, even if I can afford it, to buy a new phone, only to then get the V2 when it finally arrives, even though I wouldn't need it anymore since I now have a different phone. No. I got a refund and bought a different phone, and that's now my phone for the foreseeable future. Just because I can afford it and the V2, doesn't mean I should have to spend my money on the V2 now that I have been forced, through Saygus' failure to meet their deadlines, to go with a different phone.
[Saygus V²] halkhali83:
No news from Saygus so far!

Sent from Nokia N1 using XDA Free mobile app
[Saygus V²] Jimmy_Neutron:
Given previous history, I don't think that this should come as a major surprise.
[Saygus V²] TheYoungLord:
404 pages for an unreleased phone is pretty impressive. Here's hoping the speed of my refund is equally impressive.
[Saygus V²] The Fer-Shiz-Nizzle:
Error 404: phone not found
[Saygus V²] aspid667:
I'm afraid that there is no Saygus so far...
[Saygus V²] Soltkemecsei:
I can understand you as a human being, but the ideal (and the minimum for your role) would be if you did not see the world this flat.

Even if accepting one had this attitude, it is still hard for me to understand, why to believe in "the" truth which fundamentals are laid down by interest-speculators and wannabe masters without any care of the facts (eg. refunds) and their own mistakes.
[Saygus V²] alexanseris:
I agree so far, but this is not the best time for Saygus to run away, they at least need to take Indiegogo money, and then BOOM!
[Saygus V²] aspid667:
You're right - they need Indiegogo money to pay out the refunds. And then they will start Kickstarter campaign in order to raise money to refund those from Indiegogo.
[Saygus V²] billybob4:
Hope they have plenty, asked for my refund on Monday.

I've given up after 5 months of waiting.
[Saygus V²] waterplanet:
More powerful than the desire to defend the behavior of a co-moderator no matter what?

In my opinion it's impossible to know with 100% certainty, at this point in time, if V2 will be vaporware or not. At least not from the information that has been released to the public so far. There is no logic in just stating that "Vphone was Vaporware -> V2 must be vaporware.". If anyone have additional information that proves, beyond any doubt, that V2 will not be released, I'm very interested in that information.

Many participants in this thread still hope that V2 will be released, at the same time as we are realistic, and very aware that it might never get released. I have yet to see anyone claim that they are 100% certain that V2 will be released, and completely disregard all speculations that it could be vaporware. So it's definitely possible to have hope, at the same time as being able to see the reality. The "2 sides of the coin"-argument does not seem to hold water.
[Saygus V²] Cullenator:
I've figured it out!

It's all just a social experiment... They're just testing the Duncan Principle! :)

[YOUTUBE]-rQPbua93Po[/YOUTUBE]

(This is a joke. Carry on.)
[Saygus V²] possibilis:
Duncan? No, I'm thinking we have more of a Dunning- Kruger principle in this thread.
[Saygus V²] TonyStark R.I.P.:
Believe it or not I too can have a personal opinion. I in no way spoke in any derogatory manner. I have been in this threda as long as most anyone. I have spoken with Saygus directly. My opinion has been requested several times in this thread. Finaly last I looked, this was the [Discussion] SAYGUS V2 thread.

Your opinion is yours, as mine is mine. To lay it it in a more clear statement for you. It is a two sided coin, either it will be or it will not.

I never said "beyond any doubt", what I did say was "I ask you, do you not even see the similarities between the Vphone and what is happening now?" If you have read anything regarding the buildup of the Vphone,((great article acn be read here)), it seems to be following a simmilar path.

See Andreas, twitter or indiagogo for highlighted statement. I am not going to waste my time to find exactly how many in this thread have said it will be released. Though I'm sure for you, somebody will look it up:good:

Bottom line here, I too was a potential consumer. I did my part in supporting the potential of this device. I am in fact allowed an opinion. That you do not like my statement is fine but to confuse my ability to moderate on XDA vs my opinion of a device, you sir have no idea what XDA is about.
[Saygus V²] SymbianRefugee:
Your argument is pointless. It does not matter if it will turn out to be vaporware like the v1, it just matters for each of us individually to decide if he has had enough and thinks the risk of it being vaporware is too high or that you don't like the way they do business.

Personally I don't gamble so I've asked for a refund and got a Z1 & Z3 compact for the same price as the yet to be seen Saygus.

A bird in the hand is worth 2 in the Bush, so what are two birds in hands worth?

There is no right or wrong but for me seeing them head down the exact same path add the V1 while continually lying to the pre-order customers is enough for me to pull out, I'll be holding the Z's until mid 2016 when Nokia re-enter the market.
[Saygus V²] vikramkhalsa:
Too good!:D
[Saygus V²] Soltkemecsei:
Would you feel being derogated if someone said you do not understand the reality?

So did I, and as you can see several other forum members. (And many more has already left XDA for similar reason.)

You did not express your opinion of a device, but you declared (in a way that we felt derogatory) what you think of those forum members who do not agree with you in taking the speculations as 100% facts.

BTW, kudos for your support earlier in this thread, I really appreciate your being open minded at that time. Saygus not following up is one of the things that worries me.
[Saygus V²] SymbianRefugee:
Who is "we" ?
[Saygus V²] aspid667:
We, King of Great Britain...

---------- Post added 9th July 2015 at 12:02 AM ---------- Previous post was 8th July 2015 at 11:56 PM ----------

Another funny twit from Say(Choose) https://twitter.com/Saygus/status/618873977683881984

Do they means these carriers too: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aircraft_carrier?
[Saygus V²] hdtechk:
Check out [MENTION=6700101]SayG[/MENTION]us's Tweet: https://twitter.com/Saygus/status/618873977683881984?s=09 looks like saygus is done with frequency tuning
[Saygus V²] zelendel:
Ok lets let it go already. As stated there are two camps you can be in. You can either have faith Or believe that it is vaporware, I have seen one to many devices supposed to be killer devices just to become vaporware. I have a feeling that this one will be as well. Either that or it will be outdated by the time it is released.

Now every one has their thoughts on this and they are welcome to them but if you get your feelings hurt then you are on the wrong site. We are not a user forum focused on making people feel good. We are a developers forums made for and by developers. So you have to have a thick skin. IF you dont then you will never last.
[Saygus V²] bob90210:
The tweet does not say anything about frequency tuning; it only says the phone will work with any carrier.
[Saygus V²] hdtechk:
Won't work at all tell tuned
[Saygus V²] bob90210:
I was entirely confused by your reply until I realized you interpreted "will" as "expressing facts about ability or capacity" but considering that the phone is not done and there is no statement specifically about the frequency tuning, I am certain that "will" means "expressing the future tense."
[Saygus V²] alexanseris:
I have a message to someone who knows very well that he is the intended one:

Why did you create multiple accounts to bash all realistic members here ?

I guess you feel so upset when your holy SayBS lost most of the faith among the members.

Mr. Australian, what is your cut of this scam?

Please be more mature and don't let me directly facing your pointless bashing next time.