yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Saygus V²] waterplanet:
This is what I think is their motivation:

1. Create some prototypes and a spec of an amazing product that they promise to deliver at a date in the future, and offer prepaid preorders with some benefits.

2. Invest the money from the preorders in something. Hopefully low risk, like a high interest bank account.

3. Wait until the promised delivery date, while trying to make the customers believe that they are actually working on the product in the meantime.

4. When the customers wants refund, they pay back the exact amount they paid, but they keep the interest from the investment, so that they earn a small amount of money for each customer. If there are many customers this can add up to a considerable amount, making a scam like this profitable.

5. As long as there are enough preorders left, they will probably go on and on with new lies, excuses and claims that they will deliver this product in the future. When there are to few preorders left they will probably claim that they are unable to deliver the product because of some issues they ran into, they will (hopefully) pay the few people left back their money, and the project is over.

So I will strongly recommend anyone that preordered to request a refund as soon as possible. If you still believe this V^2 (Vaporware-Squared?) will ever be released, there is no reason you cannot buy it later, after its released.
[Saygus V²] hormazdm:
There is substance in what you have said above......and that could probably be the case that it unfortunately turns into vaporware.....but I think i will stick around for maybe a week or max 2 weeks to cancel my order and get a refund.......showing a little bit optimism here.......cause if and when the phone does come out in the general market, its going to be way way above the current pre-order price of $549.

Hoping for the best. If Saygus comes to know that their customers have given up then it will give them more chances and avenues to play with their money. Hence, guys who have stuck with their pre-orders, should in my, try and get some answers from Saygus. Keep proding and probing them. Somewhere someplace some truth or loophole will be visible.
[Saygus V²] Soltkemecsei:
I respect the freedom of speech, but I do feel that common sense should have at least that much respect...
[Saygus V²] crazedgod:
Conspiracy Theory

Pre-ordered with order # 11** but cancelled after the first delay cos everything did always seems a little fishy to me.

While I do not believe that Saygus has any intention of ever releasing the phone as described, I’m not so sure about the deposit the money in an account and enjoying the interest theory. Interest rates in U.S have been the lowest in decades and would hardly earn them much. They could invest it internationally or in equity, but taxation laws and risks involved make these options unlikely.

Here’s my conspiracy theory - The phone was announced as bait for investors or buyers for the company. Saying you had 10k pre-orders from over 50 countries with no marketing {and cr**py customer service} could make Saygus attractive for a buyout. Investors obviously aren’t stupid but pitched well, you never know.
[Saygus V²] Purest:
I've said this over a month ago. I definitely think they did this for interest but I don't think they made much. If you want to hurt them for the interest start doing charge backs instead of asking for a refund.
[Saygus V²] Soltkemecsei:
I have heard a rumor that Chad is about to rule the world by occupying as many ice planets as possible before the Earth's water resources dry up. For this he needed some cash.

Pretty straightforward and quite comparable to all the rubbish theories of this thread.

Come on! Why would anyone go to expensive trade fairs to the other end of the world when all they want is getting our money (that we already gave them by that time!)? And all the interest-based nonsense theories. It is getting really annoying. This forum probably should have some trivia (like 3+4=?) before anyone being able to post messages.
[Saygus V²] vladser:
My personal opinion: When the end of April Sagus announced another pre-order for $ 549, they already knew that they would not delivery May 22. They knew that after May 22 will be a massive request for refund and it's made to compensate for the refund to those who pre-order in January-February. Naturally those who pre-order only in the end of April, did not immediately withdraw the money. All this looks like a deception. And then there will be new pre-orders and delays.
[Saygus V²] minatour44:
2nd batch of preorders

very good analysis, i'm praying as a 2nd batch invitee and purchaser your wrong, perhaps they didnt get enough funding and needed the extra cash flow to pay for the initial loan periodic charges?? although everyone talks about them keeping the interest, it might be more about having smaller outlay to keep loan charges from the banks to a minimum, since banks love to charge you through the nose, especially if its not backed by a guarantee.

I so want this phone, i almost wish id nver heard of it and was happy with my 5S, there really is no other phone i would leave apple for and this would have been it.....
[Saygus V²] t3chfan:
FWIW I don't think Saygus has any nefarious or cynical motive, I just think they are a bunch of amateurs who went into something naively with the best of intentions, now find themselves up to their neck in s**t and are trying to bury their head in the sand hoping, just hoping that their Shenzen partners can build what they want, to the quality that they want.

I know I've banged this drum before, but spend 15 minutes reading about the Kreyos Meteor smart watch debacle - the problem is, unless you are big enough to have your own manufacturing plants you are reliant on outsourcing this aspect, and leave yourself to be very very exposed to sometimes less than honest and transparent 'partners'.

However this does not excuse the lack or transparency to the customers, but do you really, really want to know that Saygus still has not built a single working device that has the specifications and features that they advertise. Because, if I was a betting man (and I'm not, which is why I got my pre-order refunded!) I would suggest that this is exactly the current situation.
[Saygus V²] pah2602:
The most balanced post here to date.

This is what I believe also. A lot of paranoia here about scams with little substance.

All in all a poor effort from the company. I'm preoccupied with exams until 12th June. That's as long as I'm willing to give Saygus.
[Saygus V²] Zack.TheDark:
So if this phone is waterproof, and you download an app that vibrates at predefined frequencies, wouldn't this be a nice toy? Sorry, I just want to change topic.. :) Bad vibes at xda.
[Saygus V²] waterplanet:
If they are honest, its very easy for them to prove so. They just have to ship one of the nearly finished prototypes they claim to have to an independent 3rd party, for instance The Verge or Android Authority, and ask them to verify that the prototype works close to the specs.

They have claimed on twitter that they will do this, but I'm not holding my breath.
[Saygus V²] xtermmin:
The reason behind the delays is so obvious now:

It's taking Saygus longer than anticipated to transfer everyone's pre-order money to an offshore account!

The week+ "vacation" that Chad and the other Saygus higher-ups are on? They've already fled the country!
[Saygus V²] Omegaclawe:
There are a few big flaws with this plan: The first is the return on investment. Lets say they find some crazy savings account that offers then 2% APY and lets them withdraw whenever they want (good luck...), after six months of leading us on, they would gain less than six dollars per pre-order. Lets say they have as few as six employees, and none of them intend to make more than $30,000 off of this. In this case, they would need 30,000 pre-orders that last the entire six months to meet this goal, and that's not including hosting, payment processing, keeping the lights on, etc. It simply does not pay the bills.

Meanwhile, the cost per phone is probably less than $300. If they make more than $250 per phone selling them, they do much, much better, and establish some longer-term income. Much better strategy, honestly.

If this IS a scam, they need to keep as many people's pre-order money as possible for when they go "bankrupt". In this case, they would likely make refunds more difficult to get... consider that when they refund you in full from a credit-card type purchase, they lose some money due to the payment processor. Probably higher than that 1% or so they might make off of a high-interest account. Also, in that case, the May 22nd date would have been almost ideal for declaring bankruptcy, considering they are unable (and otherwise unlikely) to collect more orders prior to the actual ship date of the device.

As a business, at this point, actually fulfilling our orders seems like the most profitable course of action... which is not to say that we'll get exactly what was promised... but here's hoping.
[Saygus V²] vertigo_2_20:
I guess you missed my earlier post about this, you might want to take a look and see that the interest idea is very unlikely.
[Saygus V²] enzo ferraro:
For The Record

I have been extremely skeptical about this entire project, and have attempted to make my feelings known on this forum.

I fell in love with the phone when I first read of it early in the year, and paid $549 on Feb 3 in hopes of getting my hands on it soon, but that hope faded in the following weeks and months, and early last week I asked Saygus for a refund. I was very unsure they had any cash left at this late date, but they sent me an email saying they had handed off my request to their credit card outfit.

I just learned that my credit card company received $549 on Sunday, and credited it to my account. I wanted to let everybody

know, once again, "just for the record."

I intend to follow this project, and if the phone eventually gets produced and performs at or near its intended goals, I'll probably purchase one because it seems to have all the specs I'm very interested in having in a single device.

As with everyone else on this forum, I'm still hoping for the very best.
[Saygus V²] Freaky Beanie:
Glad to hear that you have received your refund ;)
[Saygus V²] Zinguy:
That was a nice catch on the old poster. Consider investigative reporting as a career. Sifting through seemingly irrelevant information and piecing them together for a clearer picture of the Saygus trainwreck.

My conspiracy theory is mass gross incompetence. This evidence of still another rebranding effort in the early stages is just more confirmation. Normal path to market : Idea. > Plan.> Execution of plan.> Correction/fine tuning.>Marketing> Sale.

Saygus path: Idea.> Marketing.> Hype.> More Hype.> Fail. >More Hype.> Fail. > More Hype.> Crickets
[Saygus V²] aspid667:
To those, who have doubts about possibility to use preorder money to make more money I can say only this - MTN, SBLC and BG. :p
[Saygus V²] halkhali83:
Saygus History?

After I checked Saygus office on Google (2010 images), I found it has more than 10 rooms and also seems to have not less than 25 employees.

I'm currently having questions to a business expert:

- How Saygus was able to manage paying those employees salaries and the rent of this well-furnished suite?

I remember when I checked Saygus website by the end of last year, I could not found any business or product, nor any software or project to sell on website. It was almost news page mentioning different stories.

- Did Saygus have any revenue along these years? from what?
[Saygus V²] alexanseris:
An excellent question!

But unfortunately, I don't have the answer
[Saygus V²] Cullenator:
Waiting for a refund

Glad to hear you got your refund. I'm still waiting for mine.

I contacted his excellency Samuel Rhodes yesterday, and he was actually surprisingly helpful in opening a follow-up ticket for my original refund ticket. I imagine he's had a lot of practice with that by now? Anyway, if it's helpful at all, here's my refund status so far, for those wondering about the process:

I opened a ticket 6 days ago for a refund,

I added a comment to the ticket 3 days ago explaining that I was still waiting for a response and would have to initiate chargeback if I didn't hear anything soon.

I talked to Samuel Rhodes yesterday about the ticket, and he opened a second follow-up ticket for me.

It's not a painless process, but it's not a complete disaster (for me or Saygus) yet. I remain hopeful that it won't become one.

And good luck to the brave souls who remain on the Saygus train, although obviously I wouldn't advise it.
[Saygus V²] bob90210:
http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1555400/000155540012000001/xslFormDX01/primary_doc.xml
[Saygus V²] theleftykid:
They bloody invested the money to another company for a 30% equity. Now they are waiting to have their share back before paying the factory in China to start manufucturing the phone. Sadly, the company where they invest our money went on bankrupt and now they have trouble giving us a refund. 4 days now and still I have not heard from them about my request for a refund.
[Saygus V²] Cullenator:
Um... That's a pretty specific claim, do you have a source or other reason to believe that?

Considering the last 3 days were part of a long weekend for the US, I'd say you don't have to get worried yet. Did you see this post? Looks like [MENTION=6615105]enzo ferraro[/MENTION] got his refund 2 days ago: http://xdaforums.com/saygus-v2/gene...-one-maybe-t2996443/post60972637#post60972637
[Saygus V²] halkhali83:
Could you please write a summary for this report?

I apologize. I am not a business or financial expert and it was hard for me to understand it.

Thank you.
[Saygus V²] JabbaMac:
That sec report is from 2012, and it just states how they were trying to raise $8M in investments by selling shares of their company. Chad has mentioned their "investors" before...these are they. Or those are they? They are those? Whatever. Why don't you nervous Nelly's all just get a refund and leave. These conspiracy theories are ridiculous.
[Saygus V²] TonyStark R.I.P.:
Alright then.

I was thinking of getting my refund and decided to take my own advice and contact Saygus through the # I posted above.

I spoke with Mindy. She of course took my info and asked me some questions. She read back to me "xxxxxxxxx.XDA" Yes..

Once again she reiterated "xxxxxxxxx.XDA". I said yes again...

She asked me to hold, when a man came on and said Hello this is Chad Sayers:eek:

Chad was extremely pleased to hear from me and even better that I was a part of XDA.

After some formalities, which included his thanks to all that have supported Saygus from XDA, he went on to explain some of the issues they had, and what they are working on.

One of the company's looking to supply parts was Sharp. Over time, there camera failed to work with the system. Sharp later resolved this issue (or so they thought.) Sharp also made the promise to Saygus to build these for the March release date. Sharp had issues with assembly and layout which caused the first delay. Saygus ended up using a second source (for camera) which had assured Saygus this change would offer a May delivery.

During the last few days of assembly (with devices ready to pack) they ran into further issues in Q&A (once again) with the back camera and connection interference. This lead to finding a better suited facility to finish the task of assembly.

All the components are aligned (this was a brushed over statement)

Chad says the phones are in the process (:silly:). He had to take a call but not before I stopped him and gave him my number. I asked him to call me from one of the V2s. He agreed to do this later today or tomorrow. This call will be put on YT of which (hopefully) I will confirm.

The funny thing regarding the "call me" part was, him saying "yeah having a video showing that it can make calls is a good idea":laugh:

I will now wait to see if he replies

BTW I never did get to ask for my refund;)

UPDATE Chad did not return call. Gave it an additional 3 days and then canceled order. At this point I feel there is to much smoke and mirrors. I can appreciate delays and the complications they face. I have issue with "the greatest technology found in any smart phone" still being a fact.

When I did call to cancel, Mindy once again took my call. At the end of our conversation, she offered a possible delivery date of mid July to mid August.

Good luck to all of whom hold out.
[Saygus V²] JabbaMac:
In the process of what? Manufacturing? Testing? Boxing? Shipping?

If they would just tell us this type of information it would allay a lot of concerns.

Thanks Tony
[Saygus V²] kevin6876:
[MENTION=222262]StarK[/MENTION], I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess that you won't hear from him.

Good job getting in touch with him though.?
[Saygus V²] Zinguy:
Storage unit

There was a court decision that allowed a storage unit company to keep the contents of Saygus storage unit for non-payment. Items included desks, chairs, office equipment and computers. I think they closed up after V1 went belly up and restarted fresh on the V2.
[Saygus V²] trompeusz:
Saygus webpage updated. They changed the logo.
[Saygus V²] mbfdias:
Lol its probably in planning stage
[Saygus V²] PXL42:
Saygus website returns to old logo !
[Saygus V²] Boom515:
This ad sat atop my Gmail

So is this the work of the new marketing firm? Lol
[Saygus V²] NexVision:
I would hope not since that has the old logo on it.
[Saygus V²] vertigo_2_20:
I remember reading or seeing something along the lines of Chad having a lot of personal wealth due to real estate stuff (which made me wonder if he got rich at the expense of others in the whole housing market fiasco several years ago). So maybe he's funding this all out of pocket, or likely with business loans.
[Saygus V²] kensayers:
Nothing else compares yet

Thanks for the update Tony.

It's always good to get a bit of insight into what is causing the problem.

I have thought about jumping ship but up to now there isn't anything else out there which competes.

The G4 has the spectrum support, the removable battery and SDXC slot, but it isn't waterproof, and the camera is pretty basic.

Reading between the lines, I guess that this is an issue affecting a proportion of the phones manufactured, and that the problem was that the yield was too low, i.e. you couldn't be sure that all the phones coming off the line were of suitable quality, which leads to the need to test every phone which just makes the manufacturing process unsustainable.

Let's see how they go. I'd hope we're talking about a week or two if the interference issue is the only problem.
[Saygus V²] xxDimxx:
??? :confused:
[Saygus V²] ryan49ryan:
Someone else in the Facebook group posted the exact same ad that they saw in their Gmail inbox about 2 weeks ago. Not sure how long they've had the new marketing firm but it could be from them.

[IMG="Saygus Ad"]https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/10659235_10152848648744103_9172451739469910384_n.jpg?oh=601becf5c8f666160b5138298c691356&oe=55F6518D[/IMG]
[Saygus V²] Boom515:
I was mostly being sarcastic, but it is the first advertisement I've seen from them that I didn't have to seek out.

So anyone care to speculate on the price of the back covers?

====

May I say personally I don't like the idea that they won some innovation award(s) with no evidence of a working device. Can I just make a spec sheet with some really high specs and non-existent technology and get an award for my Boomfone?
[Saygus V²] shekers:
Someone went to Saygus to talk to them. An update...take it with grain of salt

h t t p : / / w w w .reddit.com/r/Android/comments/37deat/part_ii_of_meeting_with_saygus_about_the_v2

Sorry...not allow to post link. Remove the spaces
[Saygus V²] TonyStark R.I.P.:
Here you go

http://www.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/37deat/part_ii_of_meeting_with_saygus_about_the_v2/

DUDE... No photos of the device... lol
[Saygus V²] shekers:
There's an interesting point in the posters' previous post... --> h t t p : / / w w w .reddit.com/r/Android/comments/35rvw2/just_met_with_the_ceo_of_saygus_thought_id_share/

I'm intrigued at what that could be...there was a tweet by Saygus prior to this second shipping catastrophe that mentioned some sort of big announcement in the middle of June. God I hope it's a processor upgrade...Snapdragon 808 would be awesome.
[Saygus V²] vertigo_2_20:
I wonder how many times Chad's going to say he knows the communication has been lousy and feels bad about it. I swear that's like the third time I've seen that he said that. Would mean a lot more if he actually acted on it and changed/improved their communication. As I said before, I can deal with and have understanding for delays and complications, but only if their upfront about it and keep us up to date. They screwed up with the manufacturing process, but where they really dropped the ball was not explaining what was going on. I'd be tempted to call and talk with Chad myself to drive this point home except he either realizes it already and doesn't care, or he doesn't realize it, in which case there's no hope.

---------- Post added at 08:19 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:10 PM ----------

I'm personally fine with the 801, as it's plenty fast for most things and doesn't have the issues the newer ones have. The only reason I'd really care for a processor upgrade is to go 64-bit for 4GB RAM. One thing I don't get is people complaining about paying so much for a phone with an old, outdated processor. Considering how high-end all the other specs are, the fact the phone is waterproof and very open, and the uniqueness of it, I'd say even with the 801 it's still a hell of a deal compared with the other phones that cost a couple hundred dollars more with much less storage and battery capacity and the processor being the only part that's really any better (if it is, considering, again, the issues with the 810 and to a lesser extent the 808).
[Saygus V²] JabbaMac:
The wihd receiver they're using is from www.dvdo.com

Never saw this before.
[Saygus V²] Freaky Beanie:
wow 189$
[Saygus V²] Omegaclawe:
If this is true... the WiHD receiver there is... $190 or so. I mean, yeah, that includes a transmitter, but even if we assume that's half the price, you might be hard pressed to lower than price down to the $50~$60 people here seem to think they'll get it for...
[Saygus V²] Freaky Beanie:
Even tho the WiHD is cool it's not a feature I care about.
[Saygus V²] Boom515:
Samuel rhodes tells me

"Days, weeks, months, there is no confirmation"
[Saygus V²] 52smitty:
Is this a recent interaction from Sammy? Can you post a copy of this conversation?
[Saygus V²] Boom515:
Tonight like 10:45 PM eastern standard time
[Saygus V²] ryan49ryan:
This is what I think the situation is, based on the information we have. We know the live chat is run by another company and staffed by reps who have nothing to do with Saygus. Initially they were telling us exactly what they had from Saygus, and possibly filling in the holes with what they thought made sense. Now after all the backlash they've been receiving as a result of them giving out misinformation or more accurately outdated information, because Saygus hadn't updated them, they have taken a "we don't know either" approach. That's probably the safest thing they can do to avoid making either side unhappy. It's not the chat reps fault so don't rip on them too bad, just give them the facts and don't make it personal.
[Saygus V²] 52smitty:
Wow...

The response from Mr.Rhodes highlights just how dysfunctional this whole process has become. One can suggest "don't shoot the messenger", however it seems to be the only avenue for information from Saygus one can hope for. It appears the call center employees really don't anything, or they are getting better at spewing white noise, much like their masters in Utah.

Sadly no one is any closer to the truth... Queue the theme from X files here...
[Saygus V²] possibilis:
Haha, seems like Saygus has communication issues with their communication agency.