yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Saygus V²] post_break:
So it looks like the ship date was clearly a lie based on the info I managed to pull out of them. They could never ship without FCC certs. If they are just now working on FCC stuff expect a long wait...
[Saygus V²] saantiago:
I do think I remember reading somewhere they were going to work on the Verizon certs in June, though if they were using that as a estimate for all certs it was misleading. Either way any legitimate progress is a relief.
[Saygus V²] Charlie Brown:
Honest business practice???????

LOL!!!!!!

Oh well..... may they learn from their mistakes.

At least real progress is being shown this time.
[Saygus V²] Jkteam:
Maybe they were doing Fcc before but didn't bother telling us and telling us now it's maybe part of the 'we will be more transparent and keep you update''

i don't know and honestly don't mind,at least somethings happening
[Saygus V²] Charlie Brown:
Holy photoshop batman!! The logo on the back plate is photoshop. Ask me how I know.....

The front of the phone has a massive piece missing on the upper left near the V logo. There seems to be some kind of film over the screen. They could have at least set the correct date and time manually for us lol.

I doubt they will have a video with a fully working device by next week.

Just being realistic here. I hope I am wrong!
[Saygus V²] vertigo_2_20:
Even if they were, which it doesn't appear is the case, they would have known they wouldn't be anywhere close to a May 22nd release with that still pending. They appear to have essentially admitted to lying. I have a new theory to explain their behavior: instead of criminal intent or incompetence, I think they've just been deceiving us this whole time in order to try and keep people from buying other phones while they get the V2 ready. I think they knew all along it wouldn't be ready to go until at least later this month, if not July or August, but they gave earlier dates to prevent people that wouldn't want to wait that long from going with other phones. Then once each promised delivery date came, they just delayed it for a little longer, figuring most people would hang on that little while more since they've already been waiting this long.
[Saygus V²] Courtoman:
Just out of interest and morbid curiosity and for kicks I tried to find some quotes out of the Quran and Bible relating to the "11:47"pm in the screen shot

Here are the results:

Quran

11:47

Sahih International

"[Noah] said, "My Lord, I seek refuge in You from asking that of which I have no knowledge. And unless You forgive me and have mercy upon me, I will be among the losers."

Bible

Luke 11:47

"Woe to you, because you build tombs for the prophets, and it was your ancestors who killed them."

Leviticus 11:47 New International Version (NIV)

" 47 You must distinguish between the unclean and the clean, between living creatures that may be eaten and those that may not be eaten.’”

Good times! :P
[Saygus V²] hdtechk:
Not really because testing is not done at fcc it's done at private companies (there is 5 in the state of Utah certified for testing) you never know if they said don't submit tell we say so.
[Saygus V²] mikemaddux:
I looked in The Book of Mormon. There are lots of chapters 11 but none of them has a verse 47. Dang!
[Saygus V²] Eagle1337:
It wouldn't surprise me if the unit we saw didn't have software on it. My guess is they put their stupid render in there and re-applied the plastic that goes over the screen, nothing's missing on the top from what I can see, I can see where the film has been cut. From what I've heard if they don't go through the carriers the FCC certification isn't required.
[Saygus V²] vertigo_2_20:
I find that hard to believe. Regardless of whether they go through the carriers, I would think they still need to be checked to make sure they're not going to cause interference or other issues on the wireless spectrum. The FCC isn't there to check wireless devices for the carriers, it's there to check the devices to ensure they work properly and aren't going to negatively affect other devices. I see stickers on and/or mention in the manuals of various wireless devices regarding FCC compliance. I'm not sure if this means they've been certified by the FCC or just that they've been tested by the manufacturer and verified to comply.
[Saygus V²] NexVision:
From here - https://www.fcc.gov/encyclopedia/faqs-wireless-phones
[Saygus V²] dkryder:
the phone can be sold in most of the rest of the world without FCC cert. maybe that is why saygus did not have the u.s. on the ship price sheet. at the time ithe list was released they could not ship to the u.s.
[Saygus V²] possibilis:
Chinese cook book anyone?
[Saygus V²] ryan49ryan:
Regarding that you think the image is Photoshopped. It wouldn't surprise me that Saygus did Photoshop it, as badly as I want it to be real. Out of curiosity I ran the photo through a tool that indicates areas with varying JPEG compression which is a sign that the image has been manipulated in some way. The reason the photo is so dark is that photos on twitter are compressed quite a bit which reduces the data available in the image.

http://fotoforensics.com/analysis.php?id=f115b32b864d55c53fb9bae58f8f5d2840aa6529.330684

Basically areas that are are lighter and coloured have higher contrast, in this photo the only areas that this shows up are edges and reflective areas which are naturally higher contrast areas. The area with the logo comes up surprisingly clean, indicating that based on what this tool looks for, the image was probably not Photoshopped. See the fotoforensics site for what images that have had things Photoshopped into them look like and to get a more in depth idea of how to analyze the output. http://fotoforensics.com/tutorial-ela.php I would expect to see the whole logo or at least the area surrounding it to be a bright white or at least not the same black as the rest of the back.

[IMG="Foto Forensics ELA"]http://fotoforensics.com/analysis.php?id=f115b32b864d55c53fb9bae58f8f5d2840aa6529.330684&fmt=ela&size=600&i=17090524[/IMG]

[IMG="Saygus V2 New Logo"]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CGldGRBUQAE5MEj.jpg[/IMG]
[Saygus V²] kenosis:
Just wait for the beginning of next week. Hopefully, website is updated with accessories too
[Saygus V²] Charlie Brown:
I'm a photoshop master and graphic artist for 25 years. I teach part time when not working for clients.

The logo was photoshopped on. The tool you use as stated only detects varying compressions. Which would be poor to only use one aspect of possible evidence to prove a molested image.

There are way too many artifacts around the logo. Pointing that it was put there then someone tried to clean up and soften the borders to blend it in. Albeit, this can cause excessive artifacting of the image.

Cheers
[Saygus V²] ryan49ryan:
Well you can't say I didn't take you up on the initial offer for someone to ask you how you knew it was Photoshopped! :P I'll go with someone who actually knows their stuff over some fun tool I found online any day! I do agree completely with not liking those artifacts around the logo, wasn't sure if it was just Twitter's compression or not before. Thanks!
[Saygus V²] xtermmin:
Saygus later clarified that the US wasn't on the list at first because they hadn't worked out the shipping price with a distributor yet (lot to choose from, so they probably wanted to shop around for the best deal).

Additionally, Canada was part of the original list, and Industry Canada interfaces with the FCC compliance database, so if it was truly licensed for selling in Canada, it would also be in the FCC database, but it's not.
[Saygus V²] mastewman:
This is why I'm waiting...

This kind a sums it up as to why I'm waiting for my V²: http://www.phonearena.com/phones/Saygus-V2_id9073/rivals :good:

And please, do not bother and point out the CPU and GPU as a deficiency... because as it stands today, CPU and GPU a more than adequate for at least 1 to 2 more years...

And yes, Saygus is horrible at communicating but aren't we all...
[Saygus V²] 52smitty:
Great posting and review. Facts and less emotion are better served right now to allow us to choose
[Saygus V²] TonyStark R.I.P.:
In any other situation this would be true.

In this case, we have no facts, only supposition and speculation. The company has not offered anything solid in over 3 months.
[Saygus V²] vikramkhalsa:
Oh wait you're right, I'm also an experienced photoshop user and I see it now too.
[Saygus V²] Zack.TheDark:
I really don't care if it's Photoshopped. That doesn't change anything either or.
[Saygus V²] 52smitty:
The point I'm making Mr Stark is we all have choices to make in thinking about V2 alternatives. For one I appreciate the link to weigh ones options if you don't want to wait... No sense beating a dead horse about what Saygus could do better. Comments don't seem to motivate them to change their business midel
[Saygus V²] phixeus:
This is the perfect time to talk about what they could do better. We are still in the middle of getting extraordinarily shafted by these guys. This is exactly the time that a responsible customer could and should be critical of every aspect and act of a duplicitous and amateurish company. And this is exactly the right kind of place to talk with the right kind of people about the multitude of concerns that continue to exist.
[Saygus V²] zelendel:
He has a point. No beating a dead horse.

As for the right place you have to understand that oem don't like us here and we are the less then 1% of the user base so what is said here is not even worth consideration.

People have not been shafted as they can get a refund. So it's either wait for them or get another device.
[Saygus V²] phixeus:
In a general discussion forum, it wouldn't seem to me that those are not the only two option: wait or shut up or get another phone. Although this is the second time that I've seen you share that position.

There are legitimate and reasonable issues to discuss and a general discussion forum for this phone seems like the right place to discuss them. Potential Photoshopped photos from the company? We should discuss that. Twitter post that indicates that they didn't have FCC approval anywhere near to the previous promised delivery date? That really is something that would be of concern and sway opinions. We should discuss that.

So it is strange to me to be in a community where there are so many calls for people to stop discussing issues that concern them when this is the place where you can talk and get feedback from a wide range of enthusiasts and developers. And to call these discussions "*****ing" seems like a mischaracterization. To stifle the discussions seems to go against the spirit why we create communities like this.
[Saygus V²] JabbaMac:
The thing is it has been discussed. Read back through the last 3287 posts and take a walk down memory lane. I think Saygus should be more concerned about people giving up discussing this phone because the means people have moved on and Saygus will fade away just like before.
[Saygus V²] zelendel:
You do know that many devices here have no fcc approval right? That means almost nothing really. The only place it matters is the US and that is a very small margin of users.

This community was made for and by developers.

Who cares if it was photoshopped?

General discussions about a device is fine but discussing things that you have no control over and hold no weight at all really is kinda pointless.
[Saygus V²] post_break:
[IMG="Chair"]http://i.imgur.com/iJIW89B.gif[/IMG]

I just keep poking the bear on twitter because I want to get some information out of them about the V2. I think slamming them on their customer service and communication is a bit old but I can't help but laugh at every update they make about how they are the best, hiring the best marketing, the best phone, the best everything yet not a single consumer grade V2 exists.

If you guys stop us from complaining about Saygus, then I won't have anything to sit and laugh and post about, and that makes me sad.

Plus I genuinely hope this phone actually comes out, it's like the Duke Nukem Forever of phones.
[Saygus V²] zelendel:
I have a feeling this will happen no matter what. Their main issue was trying to do a global release right off the bat. That is a mistake. They will fall away just like the the old device that was the first to dual boot and allow hardware customisation. They showed at the MWC and then never released the device. This happens alot.
[Saygus V²] phixeus:
This kind of makes my point for me. I didn't know that. And by sharing that information, you have increased my knowledge. So that might be while all of the calls for people to "quit *****ing" aren't helpful since there is so much to be gained in sharing and discussing. Thanks again for the info.
[Saygus V²] zelendel:
If you didnt know this then you might want to rethink why you Joined a Developers community. All of this info is all over the place. I would advise you to take a week or so and do some reading.
[Saygus V²] phixeus:
We all have different levels of knowledge and I won't be discourage about learning something that seems so elementary to you. Oh, I definitely won't stop reading. I appreciate the encouragement.
[Saygus V²] zelendel:
I only know because when I joined if you didnt know the basics you were flamed to all get out and made to feel stupid. I spent weeks reading before posting again.
[Saygus V²] phixeus:
That is a fine tradition that doesn't seem to have gone anywhere.
[Saygus V²] zelendel:
Oh it has. Many of the greatest developers on the site will still do the same. Just try posting about an issue without proper logs or any basic idea. You will either be ignored or told to go read and come back when you know more.

The bottom line is this is a developers site that is here to help people become self dependent and not need help from others.
[Saygus V²] TonyStark R.I.P.:
Oh, and he was a noob back then;)

but then again, aren't we all?​
[Saygus V²] halkhali83:
That is a little bit rude!
[Saygus V²] zelendel:
I really wish I could say I was. I had already been modding WM and BB for almost 2 years before I found XDA. I was just not used to a developers forum and had been on user forums then. I didnt know the rules then but thanks to many I learned real fast but now I am going off topic.

Back on topic lol
[Saygus V²] kevin6876:
Finally got my refund! Yeah! There is hope for Saygus. Best wishes all. Enjoy your wait for those hanging in there.
[Saygus V²] NexVision:
I am curious how them lying yet again does not bother you. They posted the pictures and stated "Pictures were taken in the QA offices of the plant." Another blatant lie and that is the problem they keep lying. Had they come out and said this is where we are at 99% of the issues would not exist however they continually lie about everything under the sun.

Oh yeah your all n008s.....
[Saygus V²] Zack.TheDark:
If an animal is small and weak- the best defense it has against a strong enemy, is deception and stealth. To maintain any kind of advantage in a large corporation dominant industry Saygus cannot entertain the minority with details or truths that jeopardizes that advantage. They have not lied. Their terms and conditions state that any and all dates are approximations -> "The Saygus V2 Device is expected to be ready to ship on or about May 22, 2015, subject to reasonable delays in manufacturing and/or delivery. " They may have been deceptive but that is natural for a small business like Saygus to gain the upper-hand. I'm sorry that most people here have high anxiety problems- but you all must have seen the track record of Saygus before purchasing the pre-order. You must know what risks you are taking at least I'd hope you do before taking such a risk with your money. Those that have taken those risks like me, realize that there is potential of loss. I'm comfortable with that risk as it was an educated one, and it's not up to me for you to accept that or not. I may lose, I may win- I'd rather win, but losing is always a possibility. If losing happens, I got other phones to choose from.
[Saygus V²] Omegaclawe:
Had Saygus been more honest and pulled out this sort of information a few weeks ago, I may not have cancelled. There is no doubt they knew the phone would not ship on the promised date well before they announced it to us. This, mostly, is what got me to stop defending Saygus and cancel. I now have an LG G4 and my refund should be on its way.

I realize they are amateurs, as they haven't released anything prior, but this saga has been particularly amateurish, and they've either spent a lot of time deluding themselves or lying to us. Neither inspires confidence that they will deliver a phone as good as the paper specs suggest. I anticipate a phone with bugs and issues of the sort that will make quibbles about the Oneplus's touchscreen breaking seem quite trivial, and I'm not willing to risk my money in the hope that their hardware and software is better quality controlled than their management and communication.

Still, I hope for the best. If this phone beats the odds and is good, it could be enough to get more like it.
[Saygus V²] NexVision:
I guess we have different definitions of lying. When they state 6 days before expected ship date "Everything on track and looking good for shipping on 5/22/15" however tis not the case as they were in the process of changing manufacturers. Had they come out and said due to quality control issues we are changing mfgs and the device will be delayed. I can only speak for myself but I would have had no issue. Just continual things like that I can dig them all up if you really want but since you chose to talk about that date this is all I responded to.

I am perfectly aware of the risks and don't mind them when there is no blatant deception. I believe you either choose to provide updates (which you can do and maintain secrecy) or make it clear that only important updates will be provided or no updates for that matter you do not continually provide false updates.

Either way I do not fault anyone for there decisions my question to you was out of curiosity. I have already moved onto a new phone and requested my refund which I have not received yet however the time has not approached yet so I will not speak ill of them for that.
[Saygus V²] Zack.TheDark:
I personally feel compelled to help the startup businesses. Let's be honest, they are amateurs- and I assumed everyone knew that from the beginning.

---------- Post added at 10:05 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:31 PM ----------

I prefer to define lying as stating something untrue purposefully. Not being forthcoming with details is not lying by my definition. We don't know 100% whether they purposefully lied about May 22nd to preserve what pre-orderers they have left. I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt. But that is really a preference of mine.

Their communication is their flaw- I don't doubt that. However, communication and manufacturing capabilities are not synonymous. They have respectable people on their team like Henry Liu, and Tim Riker. Good amount of the team is also highly religious in a religion that would condemn their people to scam others. I'm confident that the Saygus team is not out to screw people. That is why I'm hanging on.
[Saygus V²] pnsdhrn:
Thank you for saying this.We should learn the facts ,understand them and decide whether we should enter into the deal.There is no point in complaining thereafter.And we also should maintain some patience considering the fact it is natural that some kind of hiccups might occur during the manufacturing process in a new venture.
[Saygus V²] Zack.TheDark:
Very much agree.
[Saygus V²] Soltkemecsei:
I do not have that much photoshop background, so I cannot argue with your statement.

However seeing the amount and quality of post-processing algorithms today's smartphones have, I'm sure I could not exactly tell what is post-processed right at the phone and what is photoshopped later.

I definitely would not dare to call Saygus or anyone a liar only based on the artifacts. Or could be the back camera and the corner edges of the phone also just photoshopped onto the image?
[Saygus V²] Omegaclawe:
As an interesting side note, the maximum storage on the V2 has effectively gone up to 1088GB:

http://www.androidauthority.com/512gb-microsd-614086/

You just need a spare $2000.
[Saygus V²] Courtoman:
Yeh thats UHS II...so no

https://plus.google.com/+Malachide%C3%86lfweald/posts/TPf6o5vbxVc
[Saygus V²] Omegaclawe:
According to Wikipedia (not the best source, I know) UHS II is backwards compatible. You won't get anywhere near the advertised speed, sure, but you should be able to access all the memory.
[Saygus V²] Courtoman:
Always happy to be proven wrong :)

Good pick up
[Saygus V²] Steven_Richard:
a spare 2000$ and V2 that is.
[Saygus V²] possibilis:
well, this is one way to try to deal with the communication issue.

https://twitter.com/Saygus/status/606843683627859970

Unless it is inside of electric bug trap factory.

Or photoshopped.
[Saygus V²] Freaky Beanie:
I'll have to say.. no other company would show pictures like that (due to trade secrets) but this seems to be assembly (manual that is). Nice to see them step up a notch ;)
[Saygus V²] dkryder:
saygus probably would wish they had a million more like you. anyway, this isn't a startup business. they have been behaving like this for at least 10 years.
[Saygus V²] post_break:
Fantastic that they are being up front now, this is exactly what people need to see.
[Saygus V²] dkryder:
well, if those pictures are post fabrication QC, i guess they have a bunch to keep them busy.
[Saygus V²] theleftykid:
who is the white guy in the photo anyway?
[Saygus V²] TonyStark R.I.P.:
Random tourist:silly:
[Saygus V²] churapa:
Steve Jobs
[Saygus V²] kenosis:
not sure about white guy but chinese guy is Dr. Henry Liu, Vice President of development and production.
[Saygus V²] hdtechk:
It's not lying if you live in Utah. Utah people don't know the difference between a lye and what they imagine. How do I know spent 38 of my 53 years in Utah
[Saygus V²] shekers:
Dr Liu has quite an impressive history/experience...

Source: www.virtualpressoffice.com/JPContentAccessServlet?fileContentId=1000000035606&source=sd&showId=3667

And here's a random Instagram picture with Sayers and the good doctor...

http://yooying.com/p/974838166180062941_437687552
[Saygus V²] Charlie Brown:
Awwww sheeet. Assembly pics!!! Everyone quick grab a nut and swing away!

Funny how everything is fine and dandy all of a sudden. The same people that were pissed off are swinging away lol..... the fact that they lie so much and disrespect the very people that got the V2 even started just does not work for me.

Some are just born tools.......
[Saygus V²] nvitone23:
Why are you still here...
[Saygus V²] sonwon:
I'm here for the drama. Actually I am looking forward to the V3 since I couldn't wait any longer and bought a Samsung Galaxy S5 Plus.
[Saygus V²] Charlie Brown:
Drama and hypocrisy. What can I say. I'm easily amused.

:p
[Saygus V²] kenosis:
Yes, he has. I posted the first link a few weeks ago.
[Saygus V²] theleftykid:
they said they will ship the phone in a box unassembled and comes with instructions on how to put it together.. :)
[Saygus V²] orld:
Gentoo way

That's called Gentoo way :)
[Saygus V²] aspid667:
That's great! In such case we won't need to pay customs. :good:
[Saygus V²] Charlie Brown:
That's the new 3d screen. He's actually Asian. The 3d screen will make great use of the old chipset for gaming O_o
[Saygus V²] theleftykid:
looks like no one ever want to discuss anymore about Saygus phone. Surely that means a lot of people went for a refund. Well done for a very good decision. Who knows there might be a better phone coming before Saygus will launch their unicorn. But if ever that unicorn exist, I will still reconsider it when the reviews turns out to be good.

Have a look at this. http://www.engadget.com/2015/04/14/letv-le-1-pro-max-superphone/
[Saygus V²] Vapour_909:
I don't care about any other phones right now aside from the V2. Everything is either lacking features or is too large. I'll take my chances and hopefully end up with a unicorn in my hand that all the nay sayers still find too good to be true.