yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Nexus 6  General] mk262:
On what basis do you say that (honest question)?

Google says

Caution: Devices upgraded to Android 5.0 and then encrypted may be returned to an unencrypted state by factory data reset. New Android 5.0 devices encrypted at first boot cannot be returned to an unencrypted state.
[Nexus 6  General] gogol:
Well then... Bye bye Nexus 6....
[Nexus 6  General] hitzand:
Well, it is less disappointing than the file system just being slow for no reason.
[Nexus 6  General] Skripka:
AnandTech is of the opinion that the AndroBench tools are not yet functioning properly on Lollipop. It was the AndroBench toolset that Ars used to cook up their NAND comparison.
[Nexus 6  General] ryude:
Once developers get their hands on it, they will figure out how to disable encryption. They could possibly use a hard flash method which replaces entire sectors of the NAND with new data. Simply flashing a ROM/kernel probably won't be enough.
[Nexus 6  General] mk262:
Where did you read that?
[Nexus 6  General] Skripka:
Ars's review openly labels the ssd benches as being androbench. Anand openly comments in their review that they think the numbers from Nexus 6 are so bad and weird that they cannot be correct...and therefore Anand doesn't include ssd benches in their review
[Nexus 6  General] mk262:
http://www.anandtech.com/comments/8687/the-nexus-6-review/429491

that's interesting
[Nexus 6  General] ECrispy:
Benchmarks don't matter. Are found in normal use the phone is slower than a N5, which is what a normal user will experience. That's what's so bad.

Also, encryption has nothing to do with this. You can enable encryption on Windows and it barely slows down disk access, if you have a modern cpu. The Nexus 6 chipset is plenty fast, so the slowdown is due to flash memory not being fast enough.
[Nexus 6  General] Skripka:
Face palm...your modern desktop CPU has dedicated encryption instructions.
[Nexus 6  General] ECrispy:
I'm not sure if the 805 has AES support, I know ARM v8 does. Regardless, since its enabled by default in L, it will hurt users.
[Nexus 6  General] mk262:
Wrong
[Nexus 6  General] Skripka:
ARM v8 does.

805 is v7 and does not.
[Nexus 6  General] ECrispy:
In which case encrypting everything by default is a bad decision. No one wants a phone slower than a N5. Did Ars get a bad unit? They are highly respected.
[Nexus 6  General] kinfolk248:
Is it possible to unencrypt things before first boot? That line has me a lil confused...
[Nexus 6  General] doitright:
Its just a software flag that tells the firstboot process to encrypt the phone. It is described here: https://source.android.com/devices/tech/encryption/

*** quite trivial to disable.

More: Its just a parameter in the fstab, which is a plain text file that describes to vold, what to mount where. Changing the flag from forceencrypt to encryptable fixes it. Note that this file is in the root fs, which means that the boot image needs to be unpacked and repacked to modify it.

More2: They're doing it on Nexus 9, with apparently very positive results.... http://xdaforums.com/nexus-9/development/rom-lollipopalooza-flounder-volantis-t2933831/page2
[Nexus 6  General] kinfolk248:
smh I need the hots wings and beer translation of that lol
[Nexus 6  General] simms22:
not read, my opinion from my experience :)
[Nexus 6  General] doitright:
"as it should" is a relative description. Fact is that while it is *not as bad*, it still has a very high overhead when compared to ARM64. The overhead may not be noticeable if the CPU load at the time is very low, since the full CPU can be devoted to the crypto functions without interrupting other things that are happening, but if you are working in something that is simultaneously CPU and I/O bound, then it will still have a, lets say "significant" impact.
[Nexus 6  General] dahawthorne:
I hesitate to disagree with doitright (and I mean this seriously, no hidden meaning), but as I said my real-world experience disagrees with the benchmarks. There may well be a fractional timelag in response, an extra second in boot time, but my brain at least isn't so attuned to my N6 as to see any noticeable difference. So I repeat my message - in the balance between performance and the security of encryption, I recommend security. Encrypt your N6 and don't worry about any performance or battery hit - you just won't see it.
[Nexus 6  General] Jfree3000:
:highfive:
[Nexus 6  General] gtalum:
Short version: encryption can be disabled with a trivial software tweak.
[Nexus 6  General] kinfolk248:
Thanks!!, see how easy that is to read and understand lol
[Nexus 6  General] doitright:
How about this;

This post has an image showing nexus 9 performance WITH encryption;

http://xdaforums.com/showpost.php?p=56526956&postcount=3

And this one withOUT encryption;

http://xdaforums.com/showpost.php?p=56628558&postcount=17

*** Be aware that those screenshots actually tell a very interesting story. The only way that the sequential write speed could go DOWN by DISABLING encryption, is if something else is going on. In fact, ANYthing in the unencrypted one should be *at least as fast* as encrypted, which tells me that the unencrypted device is actually bogged down with something. It is within reasonable difference given varying device setups though. The fact though, that the UNencrypted one is bogged down, yet shows *very* significant improvements in sequential read and SQLite performance, pretty much shows unmistakably the benefits of removing the encryption.

The translation is this;

The process to disable forced encryption (and make it work like a nexus 5) is this;

1) Run the program "split_bootimg.pl" on the device's factory boot image (boot image contains boot filesystem in gzipped cpio format, plus kernel image).

2) Extract the boot filesystem using standard 'tar' and 'cpio' commands.

3) Edit fstab file to change where it says "forceencrypt" to "encryptable".

4) Recreate boot filesystem using 'cpio' and 'tar' commands.

5) Run the program "mkbootimg" on the new boot filesystem and original kernel.

6) Fastboot the new boot image to the device.

7) Factory reset to remove the encryption.
[Nexus 6  General] spartanm99:
So, after reading this thread I've got a question: does that mean that Google will release an update which will make the Nexus 6 perform better (and faster) if this is a trivial problem which can be corrected?

Or is this something that Google will not fix and will be left to custom mods to fix?

I read this thread but I must have missed it. I'm asking out of curiosity as if it isn't something Google will ASAP get ontop of, then you'll have a lot of general users complain that the Nexus 6 is a slow device.
[Nexus 6  General] doitright:
https://plus.google.com/+JeremyCamp1337/posts/iDyPjEuEf51

Nexus 5's performance impact from encryption...

Sequential read dropped from 141.71 MB/s all the way down to 26.26!

Now it is probably worth pointing out that the SD805 *does* have a cryptographic accelerator. This has nothing to do with ARMv7 vs ARMv8. What remains to be seen, however, is whether or not that hardware cryptography is actually being *used*, and what overhead that hardware cryptography has. The performance changes on the Nexus 5 and 9 suggest software encryption. The 64bit CPU on the 9 accounts for the lower impact compared to the 5. Cryptography is one thing that is GREATLY improved by 64bit CPU.

---------- Post added at 05:07 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:04 AM ----------

Most people won't notice the lower storage speed on the N6, because they won't be measuring it.

Note: I did not say that this is a trivial PROBLEM that can be corrected... I said that it is a trivial WORKAROUND that can be implemented (with currently unknown actual improvement), however with the side-effect that you lose encryption.

There are two possibilities;

1) The prerelease devices may be running debug or unfinished code that negatively impacts the performance, which may be improved.

2) They concluded that the benefit of encryption outweighted the performance and power consumption impact, in which case, they will not be providing a fix in short order.
[Nexus 6  General] spartanm99:
Ok. But if someone is coming from a Galaxy S5 or iPhone 6/6+ to a Nexus 6 I'm sure they will notice if the phone takes between 10 and 20 seconds to launch an app (like in many cases). They will think the phone is slow (technically, it will be hindered so they are on the right track). If an huge app takes 10+ seconds to boot then in my eyes that is too long.

I know for a fact that my girlfriend (who knows nothing about phones) considers the Note 4 and iPhone 6+ 'ok-quick' when they boot large apps. If she used a Nexus 6 and waited over 10 seconds (some cases 20+) she would hate the phone.

Google should've done something to avoid this.
[Nexus 6  General] BryanP:
I wonder if the removal of encryption and it's subsequent CPU load will make a noticeable improvement on battery life.
[Nexus 6  General] mk262:
This is the million dollar question.
[Nexus 6  General] oneplus:
Flashing custom kernel and replacing the quad hd screen with 1080p will improve battery by 4 hours average.
[Nexus 6  General] kinfolk248:
lol replace the screen, good one
[Nexus 6  General] blumpkinblake:
There is an app on the market that actually changes the screen resolution. Resolution changer pro by Nexter
[Nexus 6  General] magestic1995:
Everything I read says that changing the resolution to 1080p will do nothing for battery but increase performance partially
[Nexus 6  General] Mr_Chukes:
it's not that slow, it is two milliseconds off, calm down buddy.
[Nexus 6  General] feedtheducks:
Hey guy, those milliseconds add up to seconds. SECONDS! Oh, the humanity!
[Nexus 6  General] Mr_Chukes:
Which is still fast as hell. pretty soon every android modern android phone will be encrypted the same.
[Nexus 6  General] spartanm99:
Nice point however there are tests which show that the Nexus 6 is much slower at opening apps due to the new software. As in it takes (in some cases) 22 seconds to open an app that takes about 7 seconds on the Note 4. In other cases, 15 seconds to open an app whereas on the Note 4 under 4 seconds and if you look at an equivalent sized app on the iPhone 6+, the iPhone will open it in under 2 seconds (yes the iPhone is a bad comparison as it is not Android, but still - if Apple can get their software right so can google on the Nexus 6 since the Nexus 6 and Android 5.0 are supposed to go hand-in-hand being a developer phone and all).

At the moment all signs point to the fact that Google will not change the software problems which are causing this huge slowdown. Obviously they cant change the hardware to make it faster so at the moment it looks like the Nexus 6 will be hugely slow in some departments compared to other flagships.
[Nexus 6  General] ECrispy:
Has anyone compared Lollipop on N5 vs N6, both with encryption enabled? I have a feeling the N6 flash just isn't fast enough, as Ars reported, and even with encryption disabled we might still see app slowdowns compared to other phones.

And this isn't going to get disabled in a software update.
[Nexus 6  General] italia0101:
https://plus.google.com/116050942394815657265/posts/T43dpfnPyYd

Encryption is playing a big part
[Nexus 6  General] Tratas88:
I don't really see the problem. Many Exchange installations require encrypted devices as mandatory, many of us use their phones to sync company accounts (BYOD), many saw quite a big performance hit when their devices was running encrypted. That was the case on my Note 3 now and will be the case on nearly all devices, some worse, some better.

The main Nexus 6 problem is that in my opinion it is in no points better than the Samsung Note 4, except speaker (unimportant for me, but nice to have) and pure Android.

Anyway bottom point is that encryption, even when it's not mandatory for syncing, is a strong security feature and not a problem even if it comes with a few minor issues.
[Nexus 6  General] spartanm99:
Good post.

The problem: Latest android phones (e.g. Nexus 6) have:

- 3 GIGS of RAM

- The latest Quad Core, 2.7GhZ processor

- Stock, slick OS

- Big battery (far bigger than iPhone)

And we are now even slower with processing apps, have overall comparable or worse battery life (compared with the iPhone 6+ - my mother uses one and gets between 2 and 3 days on a single charge) and worse stock camera software (compared with the latest iPhones).

Android has so much RAM and huge quad core processors (in some cases 6 and 8 core processors, soon to be mainstream for flagships with 4GB of RAM). With so much horsepower we should be destroying iPhones in regards to speed and at least destroy them with battery life, which we do not. The fastest android phones are still not as quick overall (or just as quick) and are about to be slower due to the new software. The biggest battery android phones do not outlast the iPhone 6+ by leaps and bounds, despite having huge amounts of battery power over the iPhone.

I'm not praising iPhone as a fanboy, Im a long time Nexus user, but seriously - the OS should be better equipped and android phones should stop wasting time, money and energy increasing the power but on optimising the software to get the most out of the battery and apps.

Who needs a QHD screen? 1080HD looks fine on a phone for now. Only increase the screen resolution etc once the OS is silky smooth, more power efficient and faster.

Note: I get it, android has to work on many devices while iOS does not but there is still huge room for streamlining and improvement on android which doesn't compromise on speed, but it hasn't been done obviously. Lollipop may be attempting to streamline android but at the same time it has given android a performance hit in terms of speed. That should not be the case, especially when android phones have such powerful hardware. Im not saying that snapdragon processors etc are perfect (they are not, the A8 chip is a well built chip - probably better than the latest snapdragons).
[Nexus 6  General] doitright:
Relax a little. Nothing is taking 10-20 seconds to launch. Programs are launching in 1-2 seconds, and "slow" in this context is adding just HALF A SECOND to the program load times.

---------- Post added at 02:10 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:07 PM ----------

If it *is* using software encryption, it will probably add a lot of run time.

---------- Post added at 02:13 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:10 PM ----------

If you look at the quality of samsuck code, and hardware design (I'm talking about circuit board level schematic correctness), you would not think that those are the only differences.

---------- Post added at 02:19 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:13 PM ----------

Apparently, the Nexus 9's "Q" update is having a real good impact on performance.
[Nexus 6  General] jj14:
Looking at the video that arstechnica posted http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2014...premium-price-still-comes-with-compromises/2/ (about halfway down - below "Performance—Overall slower than a Nexus 5"), it does looks noticeably slower at real world applications (not just benchmarks). Bummer.

I'll try it out before deciding whether to return it or keep it. Not canceling my order yet :)
[Nexus 6  General] kinfolk248:
Sadly you are right! Android got into the dumbass arms race about hardware and gimmicks (Samsung) but forgot to iron out the software. Android kept adding more and more power only to add more and more features/gimmicks that leach that power (Samsung lol). I mean lets be realistic, you Dont really need a QHD display, or a nearly 3 ghz cpu. Computers arent even on that level lol. Dont get me wrong tho, Ive only owned Nexus devices so Im Andy to the core BUTTTTT at times I really wish android code was as smooth and detailed as that other company.
[Nexus 6  General] SMARTPHONEPC:
Where are people getting 10-20 seconds to launch on Nexus 6? One of the reasons I want a Nexus 6 over SNote4 besides dual front stereo speakers, larger screen, Android L-fastest updates (compromising on no removable battery, sdcard like SNote series) is because I want the enhanced security features of Android L asap including encryption but is this really causing problems in real world use?

I admittedly never encrypted my Note 2 internal or external sdcard storage because of speed concerns (was planning on experimenting with it this weekend if I get the chance).. I read that iPhone6 has hardware encryption-decryption but did Google really F this up or is this an overreaction?

Has Google commented on this concern? -Thnx:cool:
[Nexus 6  General] gtalum:
Ars technica (or maybe Anandtech, but one of the two) claims it took 22 seconds to open up a game to the point where they could play the first level. It was a big game, 2 GB, but I can't recall which one. Apparently Note 4 takes 7 seconds to open the same game.

I think there are some software bugs with encryption that are slowing L down. I'll be curious to see if Google can fix it.
[Nexus 6  General] SMARTPHONEPC:
Did they have an older build? Why aren't more reviewers bringing it up?

Could xda or reviewers get Google to respond on this concern?
[Nexus 6  General] jj14:
It was arstechnica - see link quoted above. I don't care about benchmarkes in general, but that video actually showed real world appliction launches. Anandtech's review had more benchmarks, but across the board, the Note4 was "supposedly" better (battery life, benchmarks, display, etc). Sheesh.... had it not been burdened by Samsung's TW & bloat, I may have considered switching over to the Note4 instead. Regardless, I'll wait till I get my Nexus 6 to try out by myself before I decide.

Not sure - I hope it was an older build, and that the issue has since been fixed. I didn't see many other reviewers compare the N5 to N6 specifically. They just talked about the Nexus 6 on its own.
[Nexus 6  General] ttabbal:
I can't speak for the Nexus devices, as I don't own one yet. However, encryption on my Note 3 is not noticeable in normal use. I haven't benchmarked it, and don't care anyway. I took a set up phone, unencrypted, with all my apps etc, and enabled encryption. The only noticeable effect was that I have to enter a password when booting up and need a secure lock screen. The speed of apps opening and general use is not changed. That doesn't mean that the Nexus 6 can't be slower. It only means that it's possible to do it without a significant performance penalty on existing SOCs. I also don't notice any increase in CPU use with heavy I/O, leading me to believe that hardware encryption acceleration is being used. My Note is a Tmobile US device, so Snapdragon based. I can't imagine that a newer Qualcom chip would remove accelerated encryption instructions, so if there is a significant performance penalty it should be fixable with a kernel mod. And you can always disable it entirely by editing the initrd as mentioned.
[Nexus 6  General] SMARTPHONEPC:
I'd rather not disable it personally especially if there should be no performance hit as you mentioned on your Note 3 (I will try on my T-Mobile Note 2 when I get the chance copying all my data from its nearly full 128 gb card to another identical 128 gb card then encrypt both internal & external storage of one but the Note 2 is obviously an older generation). Did you only encrypt your Note 3 internal storage or also your external sdcard (when you didn't notice a performance hit)?

Glad to hear encryption did not slow your Note 3 down & I already have bootup & lock screen passcodes (secondary to face unlock that may not be secure enough for encryption that would require passcodes-passwords right?)

I'd like to try trusted devices in Android L but I think there are apps I could try now on my Note 2 that offers similar functionality..
[Nexus 6  General] ttabbal:
I only have the internal storage encrypted right now. I did some reading and the way Samsung does the encryption on SD cards isn't compatible with anything else. So I just left it unencrypted. I only use it for media and encrypted Titanium Backup files anyway.

On the Stock Samsung software, you have to use passwords, PIN, Pattern, and Face don't work with encryption. They are totally disabled. I use an Xposed module (No Lock Home) that does the trusted devices thing and it works out well. On AOSP, I believe PIN is available.
[Nexus 6  General] mk262:
http://xdaforums.com/nexus-9/development/rom-lollipopalooza-flounder-volantis-t2933831/page5
[Nexus 6  General] MarkGbe:
i was unable to fine any non edited youtube videos show load time of Asphault 8 on an iphone 6 plus. I'm curious to see how fast it loads on there, granted the size of the game may be different, among other things, so who knows if that is a good test.

I've been using the dev preview on my Nexus 5 since it's release and of course now the final version of Lollipop. I've been encrypted the entire time and i can not distinguish a difference when not encrypted. I haven't run any benchmarks, but they tend to be meaningless.

Having said all this, i do think i'd be nice if encryption was optional on the N6.
[Nexus 6  General] gtg465x:
You know encryption isn't enabled by default on Lollipop for the Nexus 5, right? Did you manually turn it on?
[Nexus 6  General] MarkGbe:
Yeah, i have it turned on because i need it to receive exchange email.
[Nexus 6  General] tfouto:
So slow it's ridicolous...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zE4GCLP7rk

that's just plain ridicolous...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HkGB7jTnT_Q

Boot time:

Note 4 - 19s

Nexus 6 - 58s
[Nexus 6  General] open1your1eyes0:
Wow, there is just zero excuse for a TouchWiz-based device to ever boot, first of all, faster than a stock Android device at the same specs and, second of all, more than 3 times the speed.

Sidenote: Can you imagine the boot time of a TouchWiz-based device with Lollipop and encrypted?
[Nexus 6  General] Prod1702:
Doesn't ART boot slower then dalvik anyway because what ART does during boot to make the phone faster while using it?

Edit: look at this one with the Nexus 9 and the Nexus 6

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kIgtbDE1IUA

The Nexus 9 is alittle bit faster then the Nexus 6 but still slower then the note 4. This is the best show because it shows a device that only runs 5.0 like the nexus 6.
[Nexus 6  General] ECrispy:
ART doesn't boot slower than DLVIK. Art compiling is done when you install the app, or on 1st boot only. The slowdown is due to encryption.
[Nexus 6  General] Prod1702:
I see why having encryption on is good but there should be a option to disable it. I know we will get that with root but still. I am sure Samsung/LG/HTC etc. will have it all on by default.
[Nexus 6  General] trunks527:
Jeeze kids. Learn how stuff works. Obviously a software issue. Relax. I remember Kingston Ssds having big issues till they released a firmware update.