yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Galaxy Note 4 General] AndreiLux:
Go get a dictionary and read what proportional means before you go on a stupid rant without any clue of what actual the technical limitations behind the speed of these SD cards are. Proportional means there is a ratio that would be applied to all cards based on things such as filesystem overhead or encoding overhead on the busses.

In this case when you have an SD card capable of 80MB/s in practice and you use it in the Note 4 you will only get 40MB/s in the Exynos versions and XX* something on the Snapdragon versions because there is a bus bottleneck on the MMC controller of the SoCs which is running at 80MHz on a 4-bit interface. That is a proportion of 2:1. Does this mean that a card that is able to get to 40MB/s will only achieve 20MB/s? No it won't because there no proportionality between the effective SD card speed and the phone's controllers/filesystem/driver overhead.

Based on your writing I think you're having a major misunderstanding of the English language and what's actually being discussed here.

*XX the S805 has increased the frequency over previous phones so it's higher than the S801's 30MB/s
[Galaxy Note 4 General] jak_ub:
No wonder that you cannot understand me if you are getting technical knowledge from common language dictionary. You really will be a little bit better if you go to wiki: Proportionality (mathematics).

Then you might also start to understand what is a "file", then compare it with a bus frequencies and bit width that you are talking about. You will then see that those buses without software abstraction layer have nothing to do with the files.

The "theory" that cd card speed is in ratio 2:1 with controller bus, comes only from you.

You intentionally misread.

You also assume that the only speeds we need to talk are the theoretical speeds or the buses.

Yes, we know that we will not have speeds faster than the reader can do. But guess what, given that card can support that speed, that means that optimistic file write speed will be with ratio 1:1 to the controller bandwidth. And guess what? It means, it is proportional (in that conditions). Then imagine a card that handles only 15m/s (controller as previously) - what do you think the optimistic file write speed will be?. Oh my! 1:1 ratio with the SD card. And oh, my that makes it proportional.

How we could state those "discoveries" in one sentence?

Both components supports transfers speeds in ratio 1:1 with the slowest of the elements. Or not? (because you are trying to argue with me that it is not true)?

Now take into account that for a file writes a a directory structure must be updated ( a file update date, file allocation ). Every file-system has its cost - for mobile devices it a very small one. Every operation on the SD card block need to be calculated position in file vs file fragment position on the volume vs blocks on SD card.

But then again, no program especially on android operates directly on the file system, there are some security checks some operations are done one fer file. For that a CPU is required - it is always some amount of time required to calculate abstraction between files, folders, and then blocks and so on.

In the end we have a combined ratio of 1:1.x (~ish) to the slowest element. It makes it proportional.

So, are you trying to tell that they are inversely proportional (that would mean that the slower the controller is, then the faster are the writes) or are you trying to tell than they are complete unrelated (and you are quoting the controller speed just because you are trolling)? So which one of those is?

If you try to read "with understanding" then you will find out that nobody questioned the limitation of the controller.

I think it is you who have very narrow understanding of things, narrow to the point of ridiculousness. When I say that "cat is an mammal", you are telling that "it is not true because cat has 4 legs", and then you accuse me that I sad that "cat has scales".

Is that make things clear? Or you will accuse me that I don't understand English language and that I'm telling that the speed of the physical writes on the sd card is in ratio 1:32 to the the volume of the played music?
[Galaxy Note 4 General] AndreiLux:
Are you completely delusional or are you there one trying to troll here? Who here mentioned files beyond you? Do you know the difference between files and a filesystem? You even continue to write on about software overhead affecting speeds and explaining why it happens while attacking me for mentioning the same thing?

That IS part of the filesystem. There is no separate mechanism for those tasks.

I suggest you read that wiki on what proportionality means, take a hint: a ratio in relation to a constant. The phone itself is the constant for everybody and the SD cards are the variable. You even posted yourself how your extreme card for 55mB/s in your PC while only 30mB/s in your phone. That's almost a 2:1 ratio, and no that's not a theory which I made up, it's what you posted yourself. Does that mean every card will get a 2:1 ratio in those performance numbers? What happened to your 1:1.x ratio here?

In those conditions?!? Please just stop it. You're just abusing the word now. Go read again what proportionality means before answering or going on with senseless mental gymnastics again.

I can only assume that through your English you wanted to say in your original post was that a card's speed is only as fast as the slowest component. Nobody disagrees with that.

Again this whole discussion is just an issue of reading and writing comprehension on your part. Let's just drop it as there's no point in continuing.
[Galaxy Note 4 General] jak_ub:
No, I posted the numbers, you took two of then, divided them , and made a conclusion that I'm saying something abound 2:1 ratio.

And on this thread I see screens from an application that tries to measure the performance, do you really think that this application communicates with a card directly?

No, have you looked at 15MB/s card? I posted those numbers in the same post. Are you trying too say to me that I divided 14 by 15 and I'm claiming that 14/15 is 2:1 or 1:2?

In an effect, you are still trying to to tell me that one of your own conclusion is wrong.

What is exactly that you are trying to prove in here?
[Galaxy Note 4 General] abs0lut3z33r0:
I get upto 20MB/s write speed max (15+ mostly) with evo plus (red card) while copying big files from usb to microsd . what is maximum supported speed of note 4?
[Galaxy Note 4 General] equlizer:
I get between 40 and 55MB/s with Kingston UHS-I U3 64gig on my note 4. I'm guessing 60mb is the limit for note 4.
[Galaxy Note 4 General] Keladeine:
Just a little testimony:

SanDisk on my Note 3 and then my Note 4. My phone ran super hot to the touch on both. Got a Samsung (128), and then even with several layers of extended battery backs and TPU cases not a single problem since. The display doesn't feel hot anymore either anymore. And I have been conditioning the new battery so I was running updates and syncing files and watching videos.

Sent from my beastly SM-N910T
[Galaxy Note 4 General] POLO_i780:
I have a SanDisk 64GB MicroSDXC, works fast and no problems so far.
[Galaxy Note 4 General] Simonetti2011:
Let's me just add more hay to the fire:

what is pointless is to have a ultra dupper hyper fast uSD card on any cellphone, including the Note 4. They are bottlenecked by their controller or whatever piece of electronics has such limitation in place.

It's not lime cellphones are DSLRs, where we do need to have the biggest and fastest (and therefore most expensive) SD cards ever made. I am a photographer too, and my D7100 can eat through SD cards like a hungry homeless on a hot dog competition. When shooting RAW+JPG, I use only SD cards rated at least 90Mb/s. For JPEGs only, a 45Mb/s (32Gb) card will suffice.

My Note4, OTOH, can't tell a 60Mb/s (UHS-3) card from a 40Mb/s (UHS-1). They both perform exactly the same, and are just marginally better than a 30Mb/s card, and honestly, it's not worth the price difference. I cannot justify having a super dupper ultra fast microSD card on a cellphone.

Honestly, I doubt 0.001% of people here are running R/W intensive tasks on their cellphones that justify even a 45Mb/s uSD card. Not even full HD video playback from the microSD will bottleneck the 40Mb/s limit imposed by the hardware.

The most intensive writing operation our phones can do on the SD card is to record full HD video, and even that won't even get close to the 40Mb/s limit.

Now, if you're running some app that demands more than that throughput on a cellphone SD card, then maybe you should rethink the type of hardware you're using for such task.
[Galaxy Note 4 General] ShonkUK:
I have an SM-N910C on order will be fitting my 2013 64GB Samsung Pro 70 Read 20 Write

and have been trying to find the specs of the reader in the Exynos variants

There's to much ranting and too little hard facts / tech specs in this thread

So my question would be can someone point me to the exact specs of the reader and interface method

of the exynos variant sd card reader
[Galaxy Note 4 General] ShonkUK:
Here's a benchmark with my Note 4 (Exynos)

Read is above spec for the card

Write is just off its spec'd at 20 write

(cached read came up when doing the ram benchmark)

So all this fluff about fast cards are of no benefit are bs in the case of the exynos variant atleast
[Galaxy Note 4 General] NoteMaxx:
Mind posting a larger image?
[Galaxy Note 4 General] jazzmachine:
Hey - just a heads up. Right now Amazon's got an SDXC 10 128 GB micro sd card from (imo) a solid manufacturer for $45! It's from Patriot, who I think makes quality products. I have a couple flash drives and a usb 3 / micro usb combo drive from them and haven't had any problems with their stuff. Actually the combo drive is insanely fast.

http://www.amazon.com/Patriot-128GB...47380107&sr=1-7&keywords=128+gb+micro+sd+card

I'm thinking about grabbing one of these even though I already have a 128 GB card. I just need to get a little more creative with my justification :laugh:
[Galaxy Note 4 General] metalking2015:
Been using a Toshiba 32gb class 4 card and very unhappy with its performance-after 5 months I started getting a memory error...use a class 10
[Galaxy Note 4 General] GabiDan:
i have 32 gb Hama sd hc class 10 ( 1 years )...i have no complain and no problem and is it at half price compared with sandisk....
[Galaxy Note 4 General] ozerarincc:
I want to get the sdcard 128 GB . Which do you recommend?

My phone Note 4 910CQ.
[Galaxy Note 4 General] imeem:
hi, i'm not sure if this has been posted yet but i sent a email to Samsung about note 4 taking advantage of UHS Speed Class 1 microSD cards and they said

.

I'm assuming this means a yes and possibly a no to UHS class 3 cards ... Well at least for the SM-N910W8.

EDIT: sent another email, this time to Samsung Gulf.

So i guess it's safe to assume that the note 4 can take advantage of the speeds from UHS class 3
[Galaxy Note 4 General] imeem:
Bought a Silicon Power Elite 64 GB UHS 1 for $23.99, speeds are rated up to 85 MB/s read and 10 MB/s 10

Did a benchmark with A1 SD Bench

Read speed ranged from 35-40 MB/s

Write speed was around 20 MB/s

However, copying files from PC to the phone via phone cable, seems to be capped at 10 MB/s based on what i can see with Task Manager.
[Galaxy Note 4 General] foxsprout:
New Samsung Evo, or probably Sandisk. Unless you have money to spend on fast AND huge capacity microSD [emoji13]
[Galaxy Note 4 General] equlizer:
Class 3 works just fine. Im using the Kingston UHS-I U3 64gig. I average about 57mb/s and i've seen as high as 75. I'm assuming that is the max this phone can do since these cards can do 90.
[Galaxy Note 4 General] NHS2008:
STRONTIUM 64GB NITRO UHS-I 566X MICRO SD CARD (CLASS 10)

free image uploading
[Galaxy Note 4 General] sandy0143:
I inserted 256 gb microSDHC sandisk it shows 250 gb available but i am unable to copy more than 11 gb why is it so can any one tell me tried several times formated it tried it via pc bt nothing ...
[Galaxy Note 4 General] NHS2008:
What card is it?,

If it doesn't even work via PC then it may be a counterfeit card. You can use programs like 'h2testw' on PC or 'SD insight' on Android to cross check the card.

I suggest you do the latter.
[Galaxy Note 4 General] sandy0143:
So i guess this is a not a real card... What can u suggest..
[Galaxy Note 4 General] :
Burst at internal. 4k at SD
[Galaxy Note 4 General] NHS2008:
I guess, return it to the railway station/roadside vendor you got it from. Or else burn it (For fun!)

And get a decent 64 GB UHS1 card for about 1.4k
[Galaxy Note 4 General] imeem:
Samsung recommends formatting using the phone so tried that. Also note 4 doesn't support SD card more than 128 gb
[Galaxy Note 4 General] BernieX:
I have a Sandisk 200 GB. Tested with H2testw, test passed. It is recognized by my N910c, indicating 183 GB (because it calculates with 1024 instead of 1000).

On the desktop it does 90 MB/s read and 27 write.

On the Note4 it does 88 and 15.
[Galaxy Note 4 General] NHS2008:
That is INSANE!!! I looked it up, it costs like 75% of the phone cost! But glad to know it works great!
[Galaxy Note 4 General] force70:
Lexar 633x

faster than any others out there.

There's a new lexar 1000x coming will i will upgrade to when its out.

sent from my Nexus 6P, Note 5, Nexus 6 or Note 4
[Galaxy Note 4 General] sandy0143:
I got that from eBay.
[Galaxy Note 4 General] @rbiter:
Huh? There are 200GB cards available and it is widely known many phones support it. Only the lowest end phones or phones that implicitly imply a limit probably won't work. Many OEM' only stated up to 128GB will work. The 200GB card hasn't been out very long.
[Galaxy Note 4 General] imeem:
i'm just stating what the manual and the customer service ppl told me.

http://downloadcenter.samsung.com/c...7/SM-N910_UM_EU_Kitkat_Eng_Rev.1.0_140926.pdf
[Galaxy Note 4 General] hristopelov:
Cyber Monday deal, get on it while you can:

128GB Sandisk microSD 80MB read $36
[Galaxy Note 4 General] srk_srinivas:
Samsung Pro 64GB

Samsung Pro 64GB card 910h with MIUI v7 ROM.
[Galaxy Note 4 General] @rbiter:
I know. A lot of phone manuals say that. If your phone supports 64GB, very good chance it will support 128 and 200. There has been a very few rare exceptions where it was limited in firmware. I don't think Samsung has ever been one to block higher capacity cards in their in firmware. I think LG and htc have been a culprit a couple of times. And some of the lower end phones.
[Galaxy Note 4 General] saifullah90:
128gb SanDisk ultra vs 32gb evo
[Galaxy Tab Pro 12.2, 10.1, 8.4 General] arcadia2uk:
I think it depends on what apps you are running, some are probably better with TW. However, over all I think that cm11 has better overall feeling.
[Galaxy Tab Pro 12.2, 10.1, 8.4 General] Mayday_XL:
CM is slower ? :confused:
[Galaxy Tab Pro 12.2, 10.1, 8.4 General] Stuart Little:
CM is worse on this tablet, I have TW because CM and other AOSP builds are having many problems even on official.
[Galaxy Tab Pro 12.2, 10.1, 8.4 General] WVUTampaAlum:
I bet a debloated tw would just crush it.
[Galaxy Tab Pro 12.2, 10.1, 8.4 General] Nutsonfire:
Please if it wasn't for CM I would have gotten rid of both my 8.4 and 10.1 tabs. They work fine with CM. Useless benchmarks...
[Galaxy Tab Pro 12.2, 10.1, 8.4 General] locutusx:
thdervenis, which exact ROM is your TouchWiz ROM anyways? Is it NG1?

Anyways regardless of a 7 to 15% benchmark performance difference... I am still thinking of dumping TW (NG1) and trying CM11.

I'm just not a fan of any of these Samsung "features" or bloat (I don't care for multi-window, S Finder, etc) and I just want the default Android experience I get with a Nexus device.

At least with CM11 I should be able to have more free RAM because none of the Samsung bloat I don't use will be running in the background (right?)
[Galaxy Tab Pro 12.2, 10.1, 8.4 General] thdervenis:
You should try CM11, I definitely recommend it. But be wary of dumping TW for good.

I develop an Android app which is resource and database intensive. It downloads data from remote servers and stores them locally in an Sqlite database. TW db performance is significantly faster than CM11, over 20% (measured repeatedly with my watch, I haven't found a db benchmark app yet)

I like CM11 better than TW, it is smoother, it uses less RAM (TW boots with 1.35GB in use, CM11 boots with 980MB in use), it's transitions are superior to that of TW and I hate the TW's bloatware.

But no bloatware, does not make CM11 lighter on the battery (it drains faster, yet at least since M11 it improved), neither does it make it faster on opening, switching and running apps. I have managed to keep about 6-7 (heavy) active apps active on the background on TW and about 7-8 (heavy) active apps on CM11 due to more RAM available.

I am very fond of CM11, it is the software that our device should have been shipped with in the first place. Android and CM is one of the major reasons why I wouldn't go iOS (I love tweaking, experimenting and I am an avid ROM flasher)

PS: My TW ROM is KOT49H.T320XXU1BNI1 (build Wed Sep 13 :34:57 KST 2014)
[Galaxy Tab Pro 12.2, 10.1, 8.4 General] Kiristiba:
I had Slimkat installed on my 8.4 for a while but i'm back to TW, too.

I'm using Apex launcher,greenify, xposed and removed most unneeded system apps.

On Custom Rom, there were to many apps crashing randomly.

I can customize the stock rom via xposed exactly the way i want it to be.

Many xposed customizations don't work on slimkat and aren't available in settings, too.

The hole TW UI is much more optimized on the screen size and resolution.

Of course these are just my opinions, but i really like the tw rom.

greetings
[Galaxy Tab Pro 12.2, 10.1, 8.4 General] locutusx:
Good to know you are on NI1. I am on NG1 but too many things do not work (i.e. Chromecast)

I think I will wait another 2 weeks for a North American NI1 firmware, if not I'll just go with the British one.

I guess it makes sense that official Samsung firmwares are better performing because they can ask their in-house developers to optimize it for the tablet, whereas CM11 might be missing some optimizations?
[Galaxy Tab Pro 12.2, 10.1, 8.4 General] locutusx:
Hey OP, how about re-doing the benches using M12 (since you did them using M11) ... M12 could be faster, no?
[Galaxy Tab Pro 12.2, 10.1, 8.4 General] thdervenis:
I planned to do it on the weekend (or tomorrow if I find an hour), not because I expect any difference but because I want to try another benchmark tool also (I follow MondrianWiFi's CM11 changelog, I haven't seen any changes that are going to improve performance).

I plan to use and post results from both Antutu and Geekbench on a vanilla setup of both ROMs. I am not going to try the battery duration as I do not plan to use CM11. Any other benchmark tool that I should try?

PS: It's not so much the performance penalty that keeps me from using CM11 (I have found it to be smoother and more tweakable) as the shortcomings that I mentioned above in my post (especially the email, the bluetooth and to a lesser extent the battery)
[Galaxy Tab Pro 12.2, 10.1, 8.4 General] redpoint73:
I would absolutely recommend to try CM11 if that is how you feel, or alternately SlimKat.

I went to SlimKat and never looked back. Its just a personal preference, and also depends on how you use your device. But I also hate the Samsung bloat apps, did not find anything to add any value (for me) and hated how TW handles the basic UI like Settings, Contacts, etc. SlimKat is so much smoother. I don't think the things being benched by the OP apply to how I use my tablet (I haven't witnessed any performance loss in real life, only smoother interface); nor have I noticed battery life to be significantly affected. Again, a lot is probably dependent on what apps you like to use.

Also remember that manufacturers love to cheat on benchmarks. And Samsung has been shown to cheat on GeekBench specifically by 11 to 16% (pretty close to the deltas found by the OP's benchmark comparison - coincidence or no?). Samsung has supposedly gone legit on benchmarks as of earlier this year. But I don't know if I buy that. Probably all the manufacturers cheat the benches in one way or another (HTC was caught, too). As long as there is a means to compare (increasingly similar) devices; manufacturers will try to leverage that benchmark to make their product look better.

http://www.extremetech.com/computing/177841-samsungs-latest-android-update-no-longer-cheats-on-benchmarks

Interesting comparison, nonetheless and the OPs effort is appreciated.
[Galaxy Tab Pro 12.2, 10.1, 8.4 General] locutusx:
OP, in terms of additional benchmarking apps, how about trying one of the "Super PI" apps for Android. I use that for quick benchmarking runs when I overclock my desktop, you could try it for your firmware benchmarking as well ;)

There are a few on the Google Play store.
[Galaxy Tab Pro 12.2, 10.1, 8.4 General] crpalmer:
For the record, I try to avoid threads like this like the plague... But you seem to actually be have good intentions.

Your benchmarks really don't show much other than the fact that Samsung "cheats". If you look at your graphs, you'll see that the CM numbers are equal or almost equal[*] to those of the Nexus 5. Given that we have the same hardware as the nexus 5 that's actually what you'd expect. The "cheating" is that Samsung has a power manager service that knows about benchmarking apps and tweaks things in the system to make benchmarking apps benchmark better. That part I know, what they tweak, I do not know. But obvious things are to overclock (unlikely), lock processors at max frequency (likely), let processors run too hot for their own good (likely) and keep processors always online (likely).

You did mention that your app is definitely much faster on TW than CM. If you can provide a test program/app and instructions for running it that you think is doing better in TW than CM, please send me instructions either via PM or via the CM thread in original development. The only way to make things better is to have tests cases so if you can share, it helps.

[*] We are slower on the graphics tests because we have a larger display.
[Galaxy Tab Pro 12.2, 10.1, 8.4 General] redpoint73:
From what I've read, tweaking the thermal profile and maxing out the CPU clock during benchmarks is what they were doing when they got busted earlier this year (before supposedly coming clean with 4.4.4).
[Galaxy Tab Pro 12.2, 10.1, 8.4 General] WillysJeepMan:
As much as I appreciate CM, I've always found it inferior to the stock ROM on tablets. Especially when compared to a de-bloatified TouchWiz. (Why oh why does Samsung hamstring their devices in that way?)

I haven't rooted my GTab Pro 8.4 yet (I'm running stock w/Nova Launcher Prime) but when I get some free time I'll debloat it... as fast as it is now, I'd love to see how it runs lean and mean.
[Galaxy Tab Pro 12.2, 10.1, 8.4 General] thdervenis:
TW, CM11 (M12) and conclusion

I updated my first post with benchmarks I did using Antutu, it's *** UPDATE for CM11 (M12) ***

The results appear to be inconclusive:

Geekbench casts TW as noticeably faster (~16%)

Antutu casts CM11 as somewhat faster (~3.5%)

Plus my own, non professional benchmark, that casts TW as faster (on network calls followed by db insertions)

A 3rd, a 4th and a 5th professional benchmark tool might also cast different and inconclusive results.

From a consumer point of view CM11 beats down laggy TouchWiz.

So I guess it is down to if Samsung stock software gives you reasons enough to stay with TW or get rid of it and go with CM11.

My thoughts on the experience is in the 1st post at the beginning of the thread.
[Galaxy Tab Pro 12.2, 10.1, 8.4 General] xuhdev:
My CM works super excellent and much better than TW... That is very strange