yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Xposed General] ECrispy:
Is there any possibility of asking Google for official help on this project. I'd imagine with the help of some Android engineers, things would become a lot simpler. That is of course if Google even agrees in the first place, I don't know their stance on projects like this.

IMO Xposed is the shining highlight of dev projects on Android, it opened up so much for so many without needing a whole new rom, and Rovo89 cannot be expected to shoulder the burden himself now that L makes things much harder. We have so many talented devs here, can we have a call to arms in the open source community to help out?
[Xposed General] Latheman:
I think any help from Google would at best be hard to get. But if it works I think it would make integration with 5.0 easier.
[Xposed General] BathroomTile:
First I just want to say thank you so much for all the work you've done! Xposed has turned my Moto G into an even more awesome device. :)

But to clarify: if we decide to upgrade to Lollipop, does that mean we need to only disable the activated Xposed modules in the meantime, or do we need to completely uninstall the Xposed framework?
[Xposed General] Neo_N5:
With Xposed Installer on Neuxs 5, I never could use OTA updates, so when you flash the factory image, it overwrite the system partition, so Xposed is uninstalled. And when you'll try to reinstall it, it will display an error message.
[Xposed General] Dovidhalevi:
Thanks for the update. Note that current ART has still not compiled for older armv6 architecture. It will have to in order to port Lollipop to such devices. Unless it will still be possible to use a Dalvik JVM in which case, good old Xposed will still be available.
[Xposed General] viper2097:
Hello rovo89!

I just wanted to let you know that Xposed is genius and, unfortunately essential for me.

I'm one of the few unlucky people who are using Android with a MVNO, so I need to use XPosed with the National Roaming module to be able to use my Smartphone without the annoying roaming messages.

So with this post I want to say thank you for all the work you did yet!

Of course I'm hopeing that Sony will bring out 5.0 soon to my Z1 and I'm also hopeing that you will find a solution for all the upcoming problems with ART and I'm pretty sure you'll gona solve them!
[Xposed General] colin p:
Probably stay with 4.4.4 and xposed

I have my Nexus 4 set up just the way I want with xposed, gravity box and a couple other modules along with a slew of paid programs that open up lots more functionality that rooting affords . Battery life is as good as it will ever be and when the battery needs replacing, then I will replace it as I have no plans on getting a N6 any time soon. Even though I cheated by rooting with towel-root, I have grown accustomed to using the extra functionality that xposed and rooting has given me. Going to 5.0 will be a royal PITA to get the darn phone back to the way I want, if ever and I don't like the new material theme either - blech! I like xposed and am not truly convinced that lollipop will be better than what I have now.

However, I am an old timey linux user and I have learned long ago, to let others do the "bug-testing" and wait for the first update to the new OS before upgrading, so (5.1?). I remember the chorus of howls that went up when KK came out.

Now I do have a bone-stock unrooted Nexus 7 that will get upgraded to lollipop, so at least I have that to play with and if the new OS is that spectacular, then I will go the route of upgrading (maybe?).
[Xposed General] mike.j:
[MENTION=4419114]rovo89[/MENTION]

Thanks so much for that clarification of the current status of things. I know what the deal is with Xposed development and would never have dreamed of querying (nagging) you for a status update, though I must admit I have been googling "ART xposed" quite frequently for the past months'ish, eager for any progress reports/updates. Sort of hoping that I would be able to hold off for ~"a couple of weeks" with upgrading to L and then do so with xposed running on ART. Knowing now that it'll be substantially(?) more than the aforementioned couple of weeks, I'll go ahead and take the leap once the final/public release of L drops (since I'm a latest-version-junkie, ho, hum), and I've got until then to adjust to the idea of not having my oh so beloved Xposed modules that have become an integral part of my Android experience. While I'll keep googling "ART xposed", I'll now (soon) be doing so not stuck on KitKat.

And I offer you my respect, admiration and gratitude for what you have created with Xposed (along with the module developers), for what it has done for my stock Nexus 5 and how it has changed my user experience. If Xposed for ART takes a month, a year, or never materializes, I applaud and salute you (and the module developers) for the work you have done so far. Thank you, most sincerely, thank you!

And should you change your policy on taking donations for Xposed, I've got some beer money with your name on it (unless you already have, in which case, what's your paypal?).. Regardless of what the future holds. :)

While this might probably be one of those posts that could fall under the category of "pressing the thanks button instead of writing a post that spams the thread when the thanks button would have been sufficient", I feel that this is a case of when the thanks button won't express my gratitude enough. And so I'll take my chances. ;)
[Xposed General] TheDannemand:
Definitely uninstall the framework (and anything else you may have installed on /system) if you'll be running the Lollipop OTA.

Personally I'll be using the opportunity to do a clean install. This is a big update.
[Xposed General] pickandwhammy:
Sorry for the spam, [MENTION=4419114]rovo89[/MENTION], but I just wanted to thank you personally in words - I literally cannot use a device without Xposed any more! Guys like you inspire me to hack a bit on my own too! Cheers! :)
[Xposed General] nbogan1:
What if there were some sort of donations available for your work on updating Xposed?. I know xposed is free, but could you set up a donation by app in Google Play store or through PayPal which would be directly for the work of xposed for Android L/ART? I'm sure there would be a lot of people who would be willing to put in some support for the work that you do. Just a suggestion
[Xposed General] CHEF-KOCH:
Give us Xposed now! No excuses! Just kidding, take your time but as mentioned many times, some people (including myself) only need the art framework to completly switch to art, that's the only thing what's holding us back. I not understand the argument art is beta, I guess if you see it that way the whole android is beta because there are almost daily changes.

If you need any help, testers and such let us know, but it's hard without any concept, so I hope you can show us some source and concepts soon.

Thanks for your hard work. We all waiting for 'final' sources to get our hands on.
[Xposed General] lycosman:
Well, whether or not we'll ever see Xposed from Lollypop on, I must say that I understand your demotivation, and as much as I'd love to see it going forwards, what I have to give you is nothing but a big and warm thank you for giving Andoid users even more power over their phones and creating the most flexible framework there is. Kudos. ;)
[Xposed General] BathroomTile:
Excellent, thank you for the advice. Good point on using this as an opportunity for a clean install. I might do that myself.
[Xposed General] mikereidis:
rovo89 you have MANY thousands of supporters.

If Xposed for Lollipop is feasible, there are many ways to earn income and be able to focus on an ongoing project:

- Here's an example of an open source IndieGogo: https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/a-month-of-rtl-sdr

- Paid app on Play; maybe $3-$5 or whatever works for you.

- Paypal donations.

- All of the above, and more.
[Xposed General] GermainZ:
1. ART in the previews is newer than the one for which the sources are published.

2. Until now (and maybe until the final release?) there have been major changes in ART.

The keyword, I believe, is "major". Basically, this means that what rovo might have working for KK's ART will need to be rewritten for the 2nd preview's ART, and so on… which is why he's waiting for the final release (so far, we've only had previews, and the sources aren't fully released for those yet).
[Xposed General] CHEF-KOCH:
1. Sure and changes from yesterday are older than from today. I don't get it why the framework not getting updates with each new release just like an normal app update. I think that would be possible.

2. Final, final .... As I said earlier if you see it that way the whole os is beta too.

Major changes or not it would be help to get our hands on some source to test what our apps need to change to work again fully under art. And I'm also sceptically if until they release the final so much changing coming, art now exists now since 1 year or more. That's stable enouth for us, because most people saying it works without bigger problems. [emoji18]
[Xposed General] Pkt_Lnt:
Rovo89 stated many times in the early stages of Xposed that he would not take donation because it made if feel like work, and he wanted to have fun. Now you guys are suggesting he do what he stated very clearly that he did not want to do. Talk about additional demotivation!
[Xposed General] Dizzyrul3z:
I keep my fingers crossed for this project because I can not imagine android without Xposed module. I told myself that I will not install Lollipop until Xposed will not work on ART.
[Xposed General] magnamentis:
clear !

the irony was clearly visible, you're right. just funny how those who think they're extra smart so often proof by proving that they're not :)

a man who's trying to proof that he's a man, is not a man :)

---------- Post added at 11:53 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:40 AM ----------

you're right about what he said but it's also not totally out of the ordinary to check from time to time whether, considering the upcoming workload and feel of responsibility towards thousands of users could eventually cause a shift in someones way to look at things ( donations for example )

as i said, his statements are fact and thus you're right but i think it's not an offend if all of us try to find a way and therefore launch probes, to in one or another way keep xposed running at least for some roms and devices, while i believe that xposed in it's current state, compatible with all roms and devices is coming to a halt due to the expected complexity.

this is not meant as a flame post but i think we should also keep the discussion running and therefore allow all thoughts to cover all the possibilities.

EDIT1: by the way ART is the smallest of all obstacles the devs are facing with lollipop's new security levels
[Xposed General] rovo89:
Yep. If I decide to take donations again, it would be after I have built something. I don't depend on them, and it indeed at's quite some pressure to work on Xposed, even if I wouldn't want to work on it (e.g. because there are more important things in my private life).

You're confusing two things. Most apps should indeed work on top of ART without problems, and those few which didn't work are fixed by either the developer or Google (in cases where the bug was in ART). Why are they compatible? Because they are using the public APIs provided by the OS. It's a contract that the apps' Java code needs to be executed in the way described by the specification. Google had to ensure that 1 + 1 = 2 works on ART as well. But the apps don't mind what happens in the background. For more complex examples, they have thousands of ways to implement it, all while the behavior experienced by the apps stays the same. Xposed has to "hack" this implementation though, it's inside ART (or Dalvik), so whenever they do a bigger refactoring or even an architecture change, Xposed can break. And they have done lots of such changes, even between the developer previews (checkout the list of commits, this one changes many important details again and was merged only two days ago).

It's similar to driving a car. Once you know how to drive a Ford, you can easily drive a BMW as well. If you're the expert for Ford electronic control units, you can't simply do the fine tuning for a BMW car. You have to learn their "implementation" first, and if they change it for a new module, you have to learn it again.

That's kind of true. Even once I got something working for ART, it's still questionable whether SELinux will allow it... and how the installer would be able to push it to the system (maybe recovery only?). So there are many open questions.
[Xposed General] leijonasisu:
To be fair, after reading the latest Android L (5.0) news. I came here to say the EXACT same thing as the person you're replying to...

Xposed has been around for a LONG time, and even if it hasn't been the official run-time. Xposed is one of the smoothest plugins ever, so ART compatibility should be rovo89's top priority, and it always should have been from a 'longevity' point of view. No one is hassling the developer here, we're all just asking the same question and wondering when we can allow our phones to take advantage of ART.

Especially as now that ART is the official runtime. It's actually also a lot faster (and cleaner) than Dalvik. The fact that due to me relying on a few Xposed modules which is as to why I am still running a half-decade old RAM-eating framework is the ONLY reason as to why I have not already swapped over to ART. There are not just thousands of us but HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of us. maybe even MILLIONS who are using Xposed, who (obviously) are not running ART. Plus the tens (perhaps even hundreds) of thousands of people who WANT to use Xposed but who won't because it doesn't support ART yet. That's a LOT of potential donates and developers my friend.

No matter what way you look at it. The next update has to be focused on bringing compatibility with ART. Even if Xposed loses a bit of functionality. I'd trade a little functionality for a decrease in RAM usage on my Galaxy S 5, and better performance and battery-life.

We all want the same thing mate, don't go firing shots at people who frankly have been waiting a LONG time to see Xposed support ART.
[Xposed General] Pkt_Lnt:
So more important than rovo's personal life and family huh? :rolleyes:
[Xposed General] leijonasisu:
Buddy no one is saying that. We're all equally grateful to not only rovo but anyone and everyone who's ever bothered to make anything for Android that gives us the functionality, innovation, peace of mind and fun that we've always wanted. It's not about asking someone to put pro bono software development over their own life. We're all just here expressing our multitude of viewpoints and ideas. If any of us could help rovo, I am sure that we'd all pitch in some way. Discussing the topic in detail doesn't harm anyone, and if anything is encouraged by the community.

This is why XDA exists.
[Xposed General] Icculus760:
That includes me! Although I am FAR from an experienced developer, I'd be happy to assist rovo in any way possible, including never asking him for an ETA :silly:
[Xposed General] Robbie-1:
Lot of pressure on this module ;)
[Xposed General] Pkt_Lnt:
Yes, and more than just the technical issues, huge as they are.

http://androidcommunity.com/rovo89-chimes-in-on-android-lollipop-woes-for-xposed-20141020/
[Xposed General] TheBlueRaja:
Hi rovo, if you don't want donations for this project why not pick a charity or something that could benefit from your work?

I appreciate that this could then start to feel like work though if people start paying for xposed, but if the donation is purely voluntary and doesn't unlock any features then nothing is "expected" by the users, as they made the choice to give yourself or your chosen benefactor some sort of donation based on work already done, not on the promise of work to come.

Just an idea.

Thanks for everything you have done already though.
[Xposed General] rydako:
rovo has already made his opinion very clear, it'd be better if people just stopped bringing up the topic of donations at the moment. No matter where the money is going, it'd still put pressure on rovo to get this out, which is understandably not something he wants, especially when he's not even certain xposed on 5.0 will be possible yet. Maybe bring this idea up after (If) xposed for 5.0 is released, but until then just drop this topic.
[Xposed General] GabrialDestruir:
I'd like to say thanks to rovo89 for all the work he put into the Dalvik Xposed. Wonderful piece of work.

As for things like donations, when people offer them, bring them up, etc. It makes the project feel like a job, you suddenly have expectations to meet because someone is willing to pay you for it. This can actually be demotivating for the person that is working on the project. Some people develop on android for themselves, not for the sake of others. Either they find it fun, or it's relaxing for them or whatever. If something useful comes out of that and it's a benefit to the community great. However when you start putting pressure on that type of person, they can stop enjoying working on whatever project they had going on because suddenly others want the project to meet their expectations which isn't exactly easy.

Just my two cents based on experience and seeing it happen to others.
[Xposed General] CHEF-KOCH:
Personally I think you should not code Android apps for money, it's a known fact that ios people paying more for her apps than android people (doesn't matter for which reasons and is ot here). But I see xposed and all of the modules more like a community project, if you want to donate ..fine but if not also okay but not blame the dev for something you never payed for or provide anything useful, like logs and such.

Rovo said not many apps are using art and I have to disagree, I think all popular apps needs art, like all camera apps (because there filter and drivers), whatsapp (according to there own faq - art not supported but it 'works'), Viper4Android and others. I think that's a very good reason to switch over.

In the meantime I looked into the source of art and rovo was right, it changed a lot (and still changes). But maybe I was a bit inclear, what I still not understand is why we can't compile it at the moment? That would work for the most people and only bump new versions if it really getting important updates. I guess you would say now that we need than to re-write the source to get it working again, but other project doing the same and it works?! There maybe should only warning that it may not works on roms/art than xyz so that rom developer can pull only tge working things. That's here what I not understand.

If we waiting and waiting longer and longer the risk getting higher that there wi be another thing, ars or whatever and nobody knows if it really getting final or they switch to another dalvik solution. That's my fear.

Well, I understand all arguments, we a have to pay our bills and I know that it could be hard to start but we talking and talking now (which is okay) but without anything to look at or deal with.

I still think the feedack and interestings in this project are quite huge and I guess if it's really a money only problem it could be solved somehow via a kickstarter project or whatever.

Thanks people for the talk and answers! We all want to learn new things and communication is essentiell for that.
[Xposed General] rignfool:
All you eager donators...

I would assume... Like last time... There might be a donation opportunity when it comes time for a nexus 6... Ala last time when the community bought rovo a nexus 5...

But that would only be because he would need a test device for 64-bit architecture...
[Xposed General] GermainZ:
To be honest, rovo's previous reply answers all your questions. Quick summary, I hope it's helpful:

It's not about the money.

He doesn't need money.

Apps don't "use" ART. They work on top of it.

Xposed (to put it simply) modifies ART. It'd be wasted effort to try and make Xposed compatible with the ART you've seen in KitKat/L Preview 1 because those have many changes compared to the unreleased (no source yet) final version. Possible? Sure. Rovo also said he had a mostly working Xposed for KitKat's ART. It's just wasted effort to make it fully working for each and every iteration of ART — the final version is what users should be using anyway.

Once L is officially released (along with the sources), ART probably won't have major changes anymore, which means making Xposed work for it will be a one time effort (along with fixes for future changes, but those shouldn't be major).

I'm not sure what you mean by "why we can't compile it at the moment?" — if you're talking about Android, you can. If you're talking about Xposed, it's because Xposed needs major changes to work with ART. Again, Xposed != "other project". Other projects work on top of ART, Xposed depends on the internals of ART. (Really, please read rovo's post again. It gives a very clear comparison.)
[Xposed General] CHEF-KOCH:
Thank's I read his post but the apps art thing is wrong, as I said drivers and such need some art related changes, well I see it as a part of the app. I guess that isn't 'on top' or I'm wrong?

I spoke about the framework itself with my compile statement. True, maybe there are changes but there is no guarantee that after 'the final' we get something new or another changes with 'M'. Still don't get it why is it so hard to merge the changes from an old build into a new one. There is no answer that makes me happy from rovo to really understand that. With other project's I mean non app related rojects, more kernel or under the hood changes which is in fact more or less easy to merge (just because apps working on top of the framework/core). Maybe you can explain me this.
[Xposed General] razrlover:
[MENTION=4775688]GermainZ[/MENTION], great job on that explanation and working example. I was always curious about these details. Appreciate your effort
[Xposed General] biohaz55:
It doesn't matter if we understand or not how xposed works with ART (I don't).

What we need to understand is that there is no working version for us for ART. As and when [MENTION=4419114]rovo89[/MENTION] has the time and the inclination to work on it then I am sure he will but until such time we have to wait patiently. Asking when?, why?, how?, etc will not bring that any closer so let's just wait OK.

Until such a time then there are 2 options when 5.0 arrives....... flash 5.0 and live without xposed or stay with 4.4.4 with xposed..... simple really.
[Xposed General] haseoxth:
Simple and clear:)
[Xposed General] beren28:
The source is available. Why don't you go do it, since it is so easy and you can't see any difficulty. Show us how easy it is
[Xposed General] CHEF-KOCH:
Compiling is one thing, understanding and get it working for all is another thing I never said it would be easy but we need a start someday. If there is really no change after the final release we can see how hard it becomes.
[Xposed General] Biou_Pilgrim:
IOS will be less locked than android...

Thank you [MENTION=4775688]GermainZ[/MENTION] for this noobfriendly explanation :)
[Xposed General] bluenote73:
Please stop. It's talk like this that pisses off devs and makes them quit. Nobody owes you anything, please stop complaining.
[Xposed General] CHEF-KOCH:
I not complaining anything here, please read the full story. Not all people want to give up that fast, and if we not understand how it works, how will you provide good support/help?! It's like driving a car without licence and background knowlage if something get broken you cry for help.

Maybe rovo can pm me and give me some more details. Thx anyway to germainz.