yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam Software Upgradin] ?Glitch:
As much attention that this thread has gotten, is it any wonder that a telecom the didn't cripple their hardware would be THE top seller of devices AND service?

To try and sell a month to month service already provided by hardware contained within a device, crippled by a service provider request, and owned by a private party should be considered conspiracy to defraud the public.

?Glitch
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam Software Upgradin] aquanaut88:
Malrose,

Not sure what you mean, but latest dopod 838 ROM is dated 3/2006.

CHT9000(838pro) latest ROM is 11/2006. No news on AKU3.X.

Cheers
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam Software Upgradin] ibanyard:
hw6515

Is the HP hw6515 likely to be close enough, I've a colleague who's one sitting right next to me. May be able to dump registry or trace his.....
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam Software Upgradin] pof:
The dumped rom I said is this one, it contains extracted contents of OS.nb from this rom, which is the "test" GPS rom from dopod.

The Beetles (hw6515) uses a proprietary serial protocol to get GPS data, which is totally different from NMEA, read more here. So it's completely useless for our Hermes, anyway thanks for trying.
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam Software Upgradin] pof:
Yes it is.

I don't know. You should better ask this in the trinity forum, or read the thread concerning that rom: http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=291036
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam Software Upgradin] Sleuth255:
@dutty: holy cr@p that's close! Have you gotten anywhere with that VIRSER_COM device you uncovered in rilgsm? ;)
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam Software Upgradin] dutty:
unfortunately not.. i think we need a device driver, but i couldn't find it anywhere in the trinity registry from the dopod test from. i've converted the ms hive reg file to a ascii reg file.. i'll attach it maybe someone has a better eye than me..
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam Software Upgradin] ahlok_hk:
It would be better if you could attach *.rgu (or convert them to .reg) from the Dopod ROM as those are also registry settings.
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam Software Upgradin] Sleuth255:
first scan of registry turned up nothing :(

I'm continuing to look at this....
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam Software Upgradin] dutty:
rgu files? let me check if those are in the dump... afaik roms use hive(hv) files to create the inital registry..

edit: okay, i've found 1mb of rgu files but i haven't looked at them just yet.. i just zipped them for others as i'm busy studying math for my exams.. got 2 tomorrow so i won't be doing much gpu research today..

edit2: just took a quick look at the rgu files and those are ascii files i.e. for humans to read ;)
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam Software Upgradin] ahlok_hk:
Sorry I forget to mention that there is also a boot.hv (in the XIP area) that you may want to extract. :)
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam Software Upgradin] dutty:
did that.. already posted in my first reg zip file ;)

hmm.. i think we should try using both trinitys ril.dll and serial_cmd.dll at the same time.. i only tried them seperatly and it would crash my device

can somebody do this?

note2: what is this

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Drivers\BuiltIn\QCTUSB_PCD1] ;EP2
"Dll"="QCTUSB.DLL"
"Prefix"="PCD"
"Index"=dword:1	;
"DeviceArrayIndex" = dword:1 ;
"Tsp"="Unimodem.dll"
"Order"=dword:3
"DeviceType"=dword:0
"FriendlyName"="Virtual PCD1"
"DevConfig"=hex: 20,00, 00,00, 05,00,00,00, 10,01,00,00, 00,4B,00,00, 00,00, 08, 00, 00, 00,00,00,00

virtual pcd??same dev config as the ril/serial modem/gps.. so its linked to the ril.. also try replacing hermes dll with trinity!!!

another guess:

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Microsoft\RIL\APIInfo\69]
"ExecutionTime"=dword:26
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Microsoft\RIL\APIInfo\70]
"ExecutionTime"=dword:2a
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Microsoft\RIL\APIInfo\71]
"ExecutionTime"=dword:5c
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Microsoft\RIL\APIInfo\72]
"ExecutionTime"=dword:448
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Microsoft\RIL\APIInfo\73]
"ExecutionTime"=dword:38
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Microsoft\RIL\APIInfo\74]
"ExecutionTime"=dword:4c6
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Microsoft\RIL\APIInfo\75]´

every ril function has a timeout assosciated with it.. maybe there is missing a timeout value for the GPS functions?? check if every timeout value from trinity is present in the hermes..
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam Software Upgradin] bydandie:
Sorry to sound like a nag, but does anyone know of any similar GPS running on AKU 2.x? If not, are we just chasing our tails until AKU3.x comes out? Also, QuickGPS is designed to work with aGPS data from other telcos, this is obviously being supported by O2, T-Mobile, Orange and Voda in Europe, but everyone testing appears to be in Irsael and Russia (Yes I know you're in Europe too, but do your teclos already support the Artemis/Love and the Triinty?)
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam Software Upgradin] dutty:
yawn... gps functions are a part of the wm5.0 core..

the gps functions in the qualcomm are compatible with normal gps iirc, they are supported by agps etc. to make a option for a faster gps fix.

btw, i'm from germany/o2...

my post above is more important keep your eye on that!! that contains some interesting things we have to pursue.. btw we're already very close to get gps apps to communicate with the gps module, and that's what we're trying.. nothing else...
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam Software Upgradin] ?Glitch:
There may be better chipset support with later AKU, I know there was radio problems with the Verizon PPC6700 support to run both wifi and phone at the same time, and the most recent rom release corrected that. Hermes may have a similar condition...
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam Software Upgradin] bobstarina:
dutty

Sorry for a silence from me. I didn't have a time at all to play with GPS today.

I see that you made big steps forward. It's cool!

About Virtual PCD:

I have 4 of them in original Hermes registry.

They are PCD1, PCD2, PCD3 and PCD9. The only difference between them are DWORD Key "Index" which is related with PCD number and "DeviceArrayIndex":

1 for PCD1

3 for PCD2

4 for PCD3

5 for PCD9
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam Software Upgradin] Olipro:
I get the feeling we want to get rid of that PCD entry; since we already have it defined as GPS, presumably this entry is conflicting
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam Software Upgradin] the archer:
Been following the thread since the start, it sounds as though you are getting closer to the solution, but it's beyond me. Is anyone else having trouble with their wifi since upgrade the radio to 1.22.01.01, since i upgraded the wifi will not connect. Any ideas?
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam Software Upgradin] bobstarina:
the archer

No problems with WiFi on 1.22 Radio at all.
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam Software Upgradin] dutty:
i'm busy with learning.. but you might want to try to remove pcd9..
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam Software Upgradin] Olipro:
you can't actually remove it... well, I can't, but you should be able to delete the entries inside
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam Software Upgradin] nosajos:
Guys, I am not going to discourage you, but it seems that Trinity hardware supports GPS intrinsically, while Hermes does not. Here is an internal view of Trinity, we can see the GPS antenna, while Hermes does not have same antenna. I think some of you had make driver worked already, but just because no antenna, can't receive the signal only.

CHT 9100 internal view (Chinese)

http://www.mobile01.com/topicdetail.php?f=224&t=255344
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam Software Upgradin] dutty:
how come i can recieve up to 4 sattellites indoors then?? even IF there would be no antenna, it wouldnt stop us.. we could still try to find the pin out of the antenna and fix it ;)
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam Software Upgradin] Sleuth255:
IMO getting the software working is a critical component irregardless of whether the antenna is there or not. Once done, hermes devices will either be working or the hardware part of the project will take off. Additionally, functioning software will tell us what we need to know about the hardware.

edit: btw nosagos, that antenna1.jpg in your attachment wasn't something I'd seen before. If there were a separate GPS antenna, that would be what it looked like...
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam Software Upgradin] motionmind:
That image shows the phone's voice/data antenna as it popped up earlier in the thread. The second image was what people were originally thinking was the GPS antenna, but the last post I saw on it said that was more likely wifi or BT. It doesn't look anything like the ceramic patch antennas I've seen almost every gps using these days anyway.
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam Software Upgradin] aquanaut88:
Further comment on the antenna -- see post#218, click on link, then click on internal photos link dated 11/15/2005. Scroll down to document "page 12". Photo shows same WiFi antenna as Trinity with gold square on top. Gold square for Wifi or possibly GPS?
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam Software Upgradin] inshar:
I do think antenna is not a trouble, as someone said before is not difficult that various systems are sharing the same antenna (WiFI , Bluetooth , GPS etc...), consider that with right antenna design tools is possible to model antennas that be used at various frequencies...

For sure if the hermes gets signals of satellites indoor has a very good GPS sensibility...

So antenna is definitively NOT a trouble!

For sure there is something missing in the software...
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam Software Upgradin] Koksie:
Antenna should not be a problem, since the experiment with the strong GPS repeater yielded no better reception. I think that that repeater would have shown a large difference in reception if there was no antenna connected and the chip had to acquire GPS satellites on its own. Since there was no difference in satellites, I think that the antenna is there, but the right software is missing.

Anyway, if we fix the softw first, we can then try hardware modding if necessary later.
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam Software Upgradin] dutty:
yep..

guys, can we please stop speculating.. we need a thread with no unrelated questions.. no more speculations about annetans.. just technical.. that would be nice...
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam Software Upgradin] TRJS:
From my experience with a Breeze the reception does seem to be a problem at the moment (indoor about 0-1 satellites, outdoor up to 4), but I, too, think this is a problem to look at later. First thing is to get the GPS-datastream to be available for WM5-apps. (Still it bothers me a bit that I think noone with a Hermes or Breeze got more than 4 satellites until now.)
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam Software Upgradin] dutty:
i was able to track 6 once.. i'm living on the 6th floor, held my mobile out of the window, clear day...

there is one person that reported 7 satellites..
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam Software Upgradin] dutty:
technical discussion continues here: http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=292466http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=291181&page=39
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam Software Upgradin] ionide:
One last thought about that, i think the repeater test might actually signify that there is NO antenna inside.

If the RFR6250's antenna pin is unconnected, and just hanging there being a ~1mm piece of metal, not resonant at any significant frequency, the only thing that comes in there is noise, no matter how good the incoming signal is.

The gps system could somehow come to think that this noise comes from satellites, and reports it sees a few, but obviously no usable data is extracted.
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam Software Upgradin] pof:
I completely agree with you ionide :(
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam Software Upgradin] bobstarina:
ionide

In this case the noise signal must come not from internal Hermes components.

This is because I've made a test with my Hermes during at@startgps working under Bootloader.

I covered my Hermes several times with a metallic shield and got a signal degradation from 4 or 3 satellites to 0 (it was a small time lag between covering and loosing of signal).
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam Software Upgradin] Sleuth255:
That was a pretty clever test bobstarina. :)
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam Software Upgradin] D@rk_4ngel:
http://www.coolsmartphone.com :D

http://franson.com/
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam Software Upgradin] scottish:
Experiment made by bobstarina proves that hermes has GPS antenna inside. If somebody else will have the same result then discussion with antenna can be closed. And the only problem should be only with software part. Ionide was right, that's why covering with shield couldn't change anything if there were no antenna.
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam Software Upgradin] Bimboy:
Just trying to lend a hand. I took both txt files from 'trinity regfiles.zip' from post 390 in this thread, and manually scanned them for things that you might want to look at. I commented at two locations for why I included a few reg items.

I sincerely hope it helps!
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam Software Upgradin] tbern123:
I hope they are wrong

I thought it might be worth ago to ask HTC about the GPS possibilities and when a new rom will come out..

Here is their response:

Thank you for contacting HTC Europe.

The T-Mobile Vario 2 does not share the same hardware as the HTC P3600. The T-Mobile is the hardware equivalent of the HTC TyTN.

The HTC TyTN (and T-Mobile Vario 2) does not have a GPS chip within, so there is nothing present to activate.

ROM's for branded devices are produced by Network involved. Please query T-Mobile directly for information pertaining to the release of their ROM update.

Should you have any other problem, please do not hesitate to contact us again. Your local number can be found at http://www.europe.htc.com/support/cs_by_phone.html

Yours sincerely

HTC Support

callservice@htceurope.com

http://www.htc.com
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam Software Upgradin] RemE:
Well, after bobstarina's test, who are you going to believe.

The Manufacturer who has a product, that will be obsoleted when this feature is activated in the next model.

Or, this group, who've pretty much proved that the GPS is alive but trapped inside till released by software?
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam Software Upgradin] mrvanx:
You gotta remember people that the person replying to these emails might have a set responce for things which are not officially in the specs for the TyTN. Some people in HTC will know that the chip that handles the UMTS etc... also handles GPS but have'nt made it widely known as it is not an intended feature for the TyTN (Apparently!).

If we could go and ask the guys who designed and implemented the TyTN we would probably either get a blatant fobbing off, or an acknowledgment of it.
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam Software Upgradin] madmattco:
well i cant wait until we finally get this cracked. i am running my emulators in vb right now with both tytn and hermes roms to see if i can figure some more things out.
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam Software Upgradin] nunomax:
TyTN GPS testing

well, I must say that I am a little bit disapointed with the tests that I've run today. I move to an open area, and for about 45 minutes I've tried to understand the info sent by the GPS chip through bootloader (with trinity radio 1.22 and at@startgps) and I must say that I cannot reach a conclusion about the colected output....

Several times it showed 4 fixed sats, but suddenly it showed 0 fixed sats, then 1 then 0, etc, etc and this was valid for the entire test.... :confused:

I must say that I have some hope that this dedicated group will have the capacity to hack the gps chip for the TyTN, but the logic, after today's says that it will not work... :( unless there is a specify parameter to "truly" activate the gps chip inside TyTN - in my opinion it has nothing to do with OS implementation...

I know that this does not add any real value for the effort that is on course in this thread... but anyway I'll keep my eyes on this thread and in case you have something to test, please count on me.
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam Software Upgradin] pof:
I second that, I think we are putting too much efforts in porting OS parts from Trinity (dll, registry...) when we still dont get valid GPS data in bootloader.

Radio chipset (MSM6275) is completely separate from OS side, it has its own processor and OS communicates with it through RIL, if someone with a Trinity can install Xbridge we will be able to "spy" how the GPS is initialized and handled on Trinity and replicate the same in Hermes bootloader. IMHO this is the way to go, before thinking on OS side.
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam Software Upgradin] RonenB:
mates,

I believe that the discussion about the antenna takes us to a wrong direction. I am not a ROM expert, neither a programer but I actually work in GPS enviroment for years. The NMEA stream shows actual satelites numbers. This is because each satelite transmits not only its location but also a unique ID that lets the receiver know which one it is receiving. The signal we received cannot be just eco or static noise as with RF radio. It is a real GPS reception with some satelites aquired. However, it looks like not all the commands or references are alive there and so the GPS is alive but partialy. Another evidence to that is that we cannot receive the GPS signal from normal OS mode. This also suggests that we are mossing something.

Last but not least, when I made the testing with the GPS repeater, I put the device forabout 5 min. just under the repeater. This should lead to a quick fix within seconds but it did not. The reason again is that there are some missing processes. However, should there be no antenna, I would not have been able to receive a thing. GPS is a very high frequency RF signal and it is a very sensitive one. Without an antenna you cannot receive any satellite.

Back to work guys. Some folks here are really giving us hope. I do not want to turn this thread into a casino but I bid on 7-10 days for the internal GPS to work for the Hermes. (Maybe XDA-Developers should ask for a booth at CeBIT ;-)
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam Software Upgradin] nunomax:
Just one more...

I totally agree with you, just like to share with you one more point: I've moved the TyTN to -4 floor (garage) surrounded by concret walls, activated the GPS and it reports fixed sats :confused: the good news is that it shows 0 sats most of the time and occasionaly 1 or 2 fixed sats.

I must say that in this floor I cannot get any signal from globalsat BT338, but I never read the NMEA sentences from globalsat in this conditions - so I cannot compare if there is some residual signal on this floor.

Assuming that we have the necessary hardware (GPS processor, antenna, etc) I think there must be some command to activate it, and I think pof's sugestion is excelent, with xbridge on trinity we should be able to check the sent commands from OS to GPS unit.
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam Software Upgradin] dutty:
well my exams will be over in ~14 days ;) and i'm busy studying for my business exams tomorrow.. ill try to stab the gps at the weekend..

installing xbridge would be very good, although i don't know what the result would be, what kind of debug output do we get?

we dont know if our bootloader output is wrong or not which sucks, we would need to have an at interperter on the trinity.. but thats impossible..

yes the qualcomm programming could be different in the hermes/trinity, but i seriously doubt that.. you need to think as an enterprise, create one device(hermes) and create abstract devices like the trinity that use mostly the same hardware but with enabled/disabled features.. they dont have to adjust their factorys, some simple/small changes here and there and they can save alot of money, and i'm not talking about a few 10000USD... they don't have to reconstruct the entire thing.. believe me, i study that kind of stuff i know how it *should* go down in a big enterprise..
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam Software Upgradin] TRJS:
Doing one thing doesn't mean that another thing shouldn't be done, too. Those who know WM5 well should try to get the GPS to work within WM5, the hardware-specialists can try to locate that damn antenna in Trinity and others can work on AT-commands via bootloader. As long as something doesn't absorb ressources that are needed more elsewhere it's all fine, I think.

Anyway, if we knew how to control the GPS in bootloader mode this would be the easiest way. I only hope that really everything is possible in bootloader mode - of course this can't be simply compared, but when I was trying to get into the Ogo (IXI CT-10) I realized that only a smaller set of it's AT-commands was available in bootloader mode than when accessing it through the OS' BT-interface. That's why I think that when getting the GPS to work with Trinity's dll's etc. we would know for quite sure if it can work in principle or if there's some hardware missing. Unfortunately it seems as if this is not the easiest way, though.

And anyhow, we need someone with a Trinity. Where are all the guys who are willing to help when they're needed?
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam Software Upgradin] nunomax:
just making some internal checking of rilgsm.dll from trinity, and in fact there are the at@startgps and at@stopgps commands apparently without parameters. I've made some testing around these and apparently they take up to 12 parameters, but the only important ones were the first and the second (1,X = Cold Start Test) and (2,X = Warm Start Test) - already documented before.

There is also some functions with the statements PPN=TRUE(SetEqu:%x), RILSetEquipmentState(%) and RILGetEquipmentState(%) that might be worth to investigate.

pof, from rapid searching I've found this page http://www.xs4all.nl/~itsme/projects/xda/ril.html which has some mapping from the RIL functions to the radio bootloader commands (sorry if I am wrong, but did not have the time to read everything). Do you think we can manage to send AT commands on the bootloader in order to check this functions directly ?

for example: "AT+CFUN?\r" or "AT%%SATC=1,FFFFFF7F00000010;+CFUN=%u\r" ; "AT+CFUN=%u\r"

this might be a completly stupid idea, but it is to try to start the GPS chip directly from bootloader - if it is startable... :confused:
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam Software Upgradin] dutty:
nunomax, i dont want to discourage you but please read the last 20 pages of this thread so you dont waste your time. most of the stuff you have posted here is already known and possible.

i even managed to establish communication from a gps app to the radio module and the radio module responds, but the answer doesnt route back to the gps app..

see the other thread, first post..
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam Software Upgradin] madmattco:
dont know if this will make a difference or not.

with the problem of running task manager and trying to start the driver you keep getting an error trying to load the file. ok well get this. i am running an 8525. specifics in sig, and it is totally unmodded for gps. i try my bluetooth gps adaptor with telenav and all is well of course. i go into devices in tm and i see where gpd1 and gpd0 are loaded already. ok moving on. i unload them both and try to restart them and it gives me that error about cannot open the device or file specified. ok gpd0 points to Drivers\builtin\gpsid and gpd1 points to system\currentcontrolset\gps intermediate driver\multiplexer\activatedevice . now why wouldnt i be able to restart that device? even if i go into telenav and try to view current location to get nmea info it stalls and wont read anything. any ideas? any help to anyone?
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam Software Upgradin] ibanyard:
I've dropped another request to this thread