yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam Software Upgradin] paralichko:
Are there some pictures of trinity except those 2 ( trinity motherboard ) from trinity forum ?

Be healthy

Gaby !!!
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam Software Upgradin] vijay555:
Sleuth255: Damn, I forgot about that.

Then just try dumping the Trinity NMEA data directly from the OS through the com port and see if it starts up with the same non-data.

Have the trinity dlls been reversed yet? Pof you said there were some relevant strings in there right?

Is there a developer's manual for the chipset that will discuss any necessary handshaking/configuration etc?

V
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam Software Upgradin] Sleuth255:
I believe we're going to have to figure out how to make a GPS antenna for this sucker. I'm checking pics and schematics now....

What we need are some good hi-rez "Trinity disassembled" shots that will at least allow us to id what the GPS antenna looks like.
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam Software Upgradin] chymmylt:
Yeah that was my problem - I was studying the photos of the TyTN and didn't see anything that looked like an extra antenna but if I could look at the trinity and compare it - I'd have a much better guess
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam Software Upgradin] paralichko:
i think that the GPS antena may look like a small chip or integrated in the PCB. I also think that between the antena and the GPS chip there must be something like amplifire, because the RF signal is with very high frequency, and if there is a RF cable between antena and chip the looses in this cable will be very big, so if there is a chip which is LNA+GPS antena, or thete is no antena.

P.S. and trinity pictures ?!?

P.S.2 :-) is there a list of all chips in TyTN ?

Be healthy Gaby !
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam Software Upgradin] pof:
http://wiki.xda-developers.com/index.php?pagename=Hermes_HardwareOverview
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam Software Upgradin] paralichko:
I think that the antena is integrated in black plastic thing that holds the GSM antena. There's no other way....

Be healthy Gaby !
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam Software Upgradin] pof:
For those interested in looking at the Trinity ROM DLLs, I uploaded the dumped OS.nb from Trinity ROM with GPS enabled (DOPOD 1.23.707.2 WWE) here:

ftp://xda:xda@ftp.xda-developers.com/Trinity/Dumped_ROMs/

But I keep believing it's a lack of antenna or signal amplifier, so I don't see any point on looking at the OS side yet.

For those skilled WinCE developers, it would be useful if you can write a quick app to capture "at@startgps" using RIL_DevSpecific() function and append the raw output of it to a file, so we can see how the output on Trinity looks like and compare it with Hermes.
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam Software Upgradin] ionide:
I posted a request for better images in the Trinity forums:

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?p=1114974
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam Software Upgradin] deadeyed:
GPS antenna on Trinity

found it from Mobile01(Taiwan):

http://www.mobile01.com/topicdetail.php?f=224&t=255344
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam Software Upgradin] Koksie:
And that little strip of metal is missing from our Hermes devices, as can be seen on the FCC pictures! So, no antenna. No GPS data for the Qualcom chip. Frustrating that such a little piece of metal (probably 2 cents) was left out and renders the GPS part of the chip useless.
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam Software Upgradin] mrvanx:
Frustrating....correct!

:( Would be great to see it working though....hopefully this isnt the last thing we hear about GPS on the hermes.

I did have a quick think......do we KNOW the hardware inside the HERM100,200,300 is the same?? Are there any very slight differences?!
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam Software Upgradin] pof:
AFAIK only the housing (button layout, etc) is different. And for Cingular 8525 which is HERM200 and has no front camera. The rest of the hardware should be exactly the same.
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam Software Upgradin] Dukas:
Some periferals are also different (at least between the 100 and the 200).

For example the camera modul is different.
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam Software Upgradin] RonenB:
How can we be sure that this is indid the GPS antenna and not just the GSM or WiFi antenna? I have seen a lot of GPS circles in my life, none had this kind of antenna.
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam Software Upgradin] jompao:
The suspense is killing me.. :-) Fingers still crossed here hoping it's possible to get it working. Amazing to see all the talent in this forum, great work so far!
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam Software Upgradin] chymmylt:
Trying to compare with the TyTN - is the same spot on the TyTN? Doesn't look like there's solder points if so :( Unless it just needs to be soldered to the ground point? If so, other then finding the part and taking apart and reassembling without damaging - it doesn't look like that hard of a job?
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam Software Upgradin] Sleuth255:
damn.... we need some work with an Ohmmeter to see if that Trinity pic is the GPS antenna. check continuity from GPS antenna pin on RFR6250 chip to that strip of metal. If zero then its the gps antenna. If not zero then check for RF amp chip on Trinity mainboard (not likely IMO; there's an RF op amp in the 6250 itself according to the schematic). If no RF amp then its not the GPS antenna. If there is an RF amp then Hermes GPS pooch may be screwed....

Zero ohms is the value we want!
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam Software Upgradin] chymmylt:
Now we just need a nice person to take apart their Trinity for us - where are all those guinea pigs when you need 'em? :)
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam Software Upgradin] Sleuth255:
FTTB this has become a hardware hack IMO. If anybody wants to try, I'm trying to obtain the pinout of the RFR6250 so you will know what pin to look at.
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam Software Upgradin] chymmylt:
I fear you might be right but I think before we start hacking apart our TyTN's it would be useful if we could get a Trinity owner to confirm that it is indeed the GPS antenna
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam Software Upgradin] tbern123:
Info re chip

Hi guys,

Thought some of you might like to read through this

http://www.cdmatech.com/download_library/pdf/msm6275_chipset.pdf
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam Software Upgradin] jasjamming:
From the block diagram of the chipset, it doesnt require a descrete LNA as the LNA itself is integrated in the chipset (RF CMOS). If there isnt an antenna then most likely there isnt a band pass filter that is connected between the chip and the antenna.

Since it is a bandpass filter, we need to know what frequency it filters at and thats it. It can be purchased at radioshack or the like and the hacking can beign.
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam Software Upgradin] Sleuth255:
for the rest of you folks, LNA refers to Low Noise Amplifier; a technique of signal preamplification. Here's a link on a GPS specific LNA:

http://www.specwave.com/filtered_lna.asp
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam Software Upgradin] jasjamming:
Here is some info on the GPS systems frequency bands:

Full Operational Capability For NAVSTAR, defined as the capability that will occur when 24 operational GPS satellites (Block II/IIA) are operating in their assigned orbits and are available for navigation use.

Initial Operating Capability For NAVSTAR, defined as the capability that will occur when 24 GPS satellites (Block I/II/IIA) are operating in their assigned orbits and are available for navigation use.

Kinematic Surveying A precision DGPS surveying technique. The roving user does not need to stop to collect precision information. Meter - centimeter level accuracy is available using modern dual-frequency carrier-phase measurement techniques.

L1 Frequency Band One of the two radio frequency bands (1602.5625 MHZ - 1615.5000 MHz) transmitted by the GLONASS satellites. Unlike NAVSTAR satellites, each GLONASS satellite transmits on a separate frequency within this band.

L1 Frequency One of the two radio frequencies (1575.42 MHz) transmitted by the NAVSTAR satellites. Unlike GLONASS satellites, all NAVSTAR satellites transmit on the same frequencies. This frequency carries the C/A code used for the standard positioning service (SPS) and the P code used for the precise positioning service (PPS).

L2 Frequency Band One of the two radio frequency bands (1246.4375 MHz - 1256.5000 MHz) transmitted by the GLONASS satellites. Unlike NAVSTAR satellites, each GLONASS satellite transmits on a separate frequency within this band.

L2 Frequency One of the two radio frequencies (1227.6 MHz) transmitted by the NAVSTAR satellites. This frequency carries only the P code used for the precise positioning service (PPS).
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam Software Upgradin] ionide:
1575.42 Mhz is the GPS frequency all normal consumer equipment uses. Our antenna should be resonant at this freq.

I found this attached photo particulary interesting. It shows 3 antenna connectors, the big GSM one, accessible from outside and connected to the main GSM antenna, and two smaller ones, just left of the middle. They are similar to the ones next to the Wlan and BT antennas in the Hermes, and are probably used for testing purposes.

Next to the connector in the middle sits a gold-coloured square, which looks a bit like a patch antenna, as used for GPS. It could well be that the other antenna, the jagged metal one, is actualy the Wlan antenna instead of GPS.

Also, the golden strip just right of the main GSM antenna could well be another antenna, presumably for BT. So i think this photo shows al 4 antennas Trinity has.

But we still need more detailed pictures of the GPS antenna and all electrical components inbetween it and the RFR6250...
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam Software Upgradin] mois:
http://forum2.mobile-review.com/showthread.php?t=50357&page=2

back and front mainboard of Trinity pics!
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam Software Upgradin] ionide:
Thanks, but these are already known on the forums.

What i mean is really high-res closeups of the circuit traces around the RFR6250 and the GPS antenna. We should be able to identify the individual components like resistors and the traces between them.
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam Software Upgradin] aquanaut88:
HP hw6515 aka HTC NM8HHH06CWL

https://gullfoss2.fcc.gov/prod/oet/...=N&application_id=398603&fcc_id='NM8HHH06CWL'

This link takes you to the FCC's OET website and presents all documents and internal photos for the hw6515 WiFi and GPS enabled version.

The internal photos show the same antenna as used on the Trinity at the top left corner of the unit, but this one shows an additional small gold square flap.

Instructions from the users manual says to set hardward to comport 7, baud rate to 57600 and use a different port to allow GPS software to access the GPS unit (e.g., com port 9).

There is no mention of GPS in the test reports, so don't bother going through those.

Maybe this is helpful, good luck to us all!
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam Software Upgradin] ibanyard:
Is the hw6515 close enough to compare to Hermes?
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam Software Upgradin] aquanaut88:
Maybe I'm mistaken, but it looks to me like we know it's got the Qualcomm 6275 chip with integrated GPSOne. We can talk to it. And we know it might have possibly aquired up to four satellites. We haven't found a GPS antenna. From the FCC docs we know exactly where the bluetooth, wife, and gprs/umts antennas are located. We also know the little connector on the back is an external connection to the GPRS antenna. Trinity has a rectangular shaped antenna on the top left-hand side that's different from Hermes. IS this the Trinity's GPS antenna? From the FCC link for the hw6515 (manufactured by HTC for HP, has first generation integrated GPS module) -- it has the same antenna on the top left-hand side as Trinity -- but with an additional little gold square. FCC doesn't have the Trinity, so we're relying on photos from the Taiwan Mobile01 site for a reference. If you may recall, there were those concerned that Trinity didn't have GPS. The same concern was discussed in Chinese on the Mobile01 site -- one person pointed out the ht6515 antenna looks the same as Trinity and posted a low-rez picture. I figured the FCC would have it and sure enough... it's all there including a parts list. Maybe it'll make sense to someone with an EE background.

Cheers
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam Software Upgradin] HerrVorragend:
Hello, can anyone tell me the actual progress of this project... everyone ist speaking about hardware pics and so on... ist there any flashable rom? or do we still don't know if the hermes/tytn does have a gps-module?
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam Software Upgradin] paralichko:
Yes there is a ROM, read carefuly.

We dont know if there is a GPS antena, the module is inside.

Be healthy Gaby !
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam Software Upgradin] ibanyard:
Its got the main chip that provides the core GPS functions, however we're not yet sure if we're missing just an antenna, or an antenna and chip to process the signal correctly.

Hopefully its just the missing antenna, which we may be able to connect up (once we've worked out the required pins to connect it to....)
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam Software Upgradin] mikeycollins13:
Hmmm

I have a spare Vario II gift from T_mobile...thinking I will sell it on Ebay and buy a Trinity so we can start testing...
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam Software Upgradin] ahlok_hk:
If you have time, you may also use the spare Vario II to test the following rom cooking process. http://xdaforums.com/showpost.php?p=1110630&postcount=60

Thanks! :)
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam Software Upgradin] Da_Blitz:
after looking at http://www.cdmatech.com/download_library/pdf/gpsone_overview.pdf it appears that we are lacking the anteana only ("No Extra Chips: no separate GPS baseband or RF chip is required, dramatically reducing cost, size, and power")

so it looks like an antenna probelm. after looking at the interanals on the fcc docs it looks like that metalic square is connected to the ground plane of the mobile, from what i could see when zomed in it is not a seperate part from the solder masked area around it. but i am going to confirm this tomorrow

i am doing some modding of the phone tomorrow (external wifi antenna, the reception issues are getting anoying) so if anyone can post what they are looking for, what they want tested or anything else (except perhaps pictures, the only camera i have is the phone itself, ironic because its so good at macro work)

keep in mind i dont have an osciliscope however if there is a good enough reason i can build a low bandwidth one to do some testing (48Khz bandwidth (96Khz sampling)) everything else is fair game (multimeters and such) i have done EE so testing wont be a problem

mainly doing it for the wifi anteanna however i might as well help out on this while its open and naked on my desk.

*** correction ***

there dosent apear to be anywhere to mount an antenna at the top acording to the fcc docs, ie near the black thing. however if you look near the usb port there is an area that fits the description of a gps mounting point perfectly

there are 2 rectangular copper bits that are roughly the same size and shape as the wifi and bluetooth antenna, one problem is that they are very close together but then again i didnt design the antenna if it goes there ;) the only problem with that position is that unlike the wifi antenna one side is NOT attached to ground. however as this would be a recive only antenna perhaps it is using a diferential anttena to help reduce noise (and improve reception) see page 4 of thi rev 1 hremeres internal pics (herm100) and can confirm they are there in the fcc herm200 pics

i dont know how to test this at the moment, i suppose it involves flashing the radio firmware, soldering an antenna on, plugging into usb and dumping the data? or is there an easier way (hard reset is fine, i have to rebuild it anyway). if you know a way provide as many direct links as posible as i dont want to spend andhour or two rereading the entire thread to catch up on everything when i could be testing :)
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam Software Upgradin] spiritofseth:
beautiful, I believe we need to see the circuit traces from the RF controller going to the contacts for where the antenna would be attatched, if they are there then i do believe we may be able to do some modifications.
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam Software Upgradin] vadmin:
help

Good evening in all! I today took htc 3600 and I want to put rom with gps! I paid 30 eyro and to me they sent email with unlock and password for rom other when I go to make unlock the 3600 it does not make reboot and when I go to be connected in order to I lower rom I put the other elements moc him it makes acceptable! I request help!!!
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam Software Upgradin] DAFTEK:
:confused: lol :confused:
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam Software Upgradin] Koksie:
@Vadmin: you are in the wrong thread, try the HTC trinity forum, your P3600 is a HTC Trinity. You can also email the comany that send you the unlock code, they have very good and fast support.

@ Da_Blitz: What you basically need to do is solder in the antenna, flash the radio ROM from the Trinity on your device. Use this ROM: ftp://xda:xda@ftp.xda-developers.com/Trinity/Radio_Roms/Trinity_GSM_GPS_ENABLED_radioROM.zip. Then put your Hermes in bootloader mode and attach it to USB (be sure to disable Active Sync USB Connection through the settings in AS on your desktop). Then open mtty and type:

(USB>)rtask b

(AT-Command Interpreter ready)

ate1

atv1

at@startgps

Your output should read something like:

Code:

NMEA$GPGSV,1,1,00*79

NMEA$GPGGA,,,,,,0,,,,,,,,*66

NMEA$GPRMC,,V,,,,,,,,,,N*53

NMEA$GPGSA,A,1,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,*32

NMEA$GPVTG,,T,,M,,N,,K*4E

NMEA$GPGSV,1,1,00*79

NMEA$GPGGA,,,,,,0,,,,,,,,*66

NMEA$GPRMC,,V,,,,,,,,,,N*53

NMEA$GPGSA,A,1,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,*32

NMEA$GPVTG,,T,,M,,N,,K*4E

NMEA$GPGSV,1,1,00*79

NMEA$GPGGA,,,,,,0,,,,,,,,*66

NMEA$GPRMC,,V,,,,,,,,,,N*53

NMEA$GPGSA,A,1,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,*32

NMEA$GPVTG,,T,,M,,N,,K*4E

NMEA$GPGSV,1,1,00*79

NMEA$GPGGA,,,,,,0,,,,,,,,*66

NMEA$GPRMC,,V,,,,,,,,,,N*53

NMEA$GPGSA,A,1,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,*32

NMEA$GPVTG,,T,,M,,N,,K*4E

NMEA$GPGSV,1,1,00*79

NMEA$GPGGA,,,,,,0,,,,,,,,*66

NMEA$GPRMC,,V,,,,,,,,,,N*53

NMEA$GPGSA,A,1,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,*32

NMEA$GPVTG,,T,,M,,N,,K*4EThis is the description of each NMEA sentence code shown:

$GPGSV - GPS Satellites in View

$GPGGA - Global Positioning System Fix Data

$GPRMC - Recommended Minimum Specific GPS/TRANSIT Data

$GPGSA - GPS DOP and Active Satellites

$GPVTG - Track Made Good and Ground Speed

This is a NMEA cycle, and my comments about what it means:

$GPGSV,1,1,00*79 ==> 0 Satellite Vechicles in view

$GPGGA,,,,,,0,,,,,,,,*66 ==> No GPS Fix data available

$GPRMC,,V,,,,,,,,,,N*53 ==> V in field 2 means navigation receiver warning (invalid position)

$GPGSA,A,1,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,*32 ==> Automatic mode (3D/2D) & Fix not available

$GPVTG,,T,,M,,N,,K*4E ==> NO GPS data available (degrees, speed...)

The most important of these are the above ones. On $GPGSV the third number is the number of satellites in view. The other values are also important, since they show wether or not the satellites are fxied and are providing data to GPS applications.

Please post your output data here, pof and others can tell us what it means you are getting.

I think the bottom of the device is a strange way to put an antenna, since we are supposed to navigate with the device in a vertical position,would an antenna on the bottom not be very bad for reception? Is there really no place on the top for an antenna, like the picture of the Trinity? Or can you make a place for it there?

Thank you very much for opening your device and trying to get the GPS to work. Good luck with it! Be careful!
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam Software Upgradin] RonenB:
wait

I suggest that you wait another day. If the antenna theory is correct, then I can probably verify it without opening the device. Tomorrow I will test the internal GPS under a strong GPS repeater.
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam Software Upgradin] TRJS:
Hmm, if the HTC Breeze really has the same chipset like Hermes, would it be a too mad idea to try the GPS-enabled radio on a Breeze? How are the chances, what do you think?
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam Software Upgradin] the archer:
Can anyone confirm if ftp://xda:xda@ftp.xda-developers.com...D_radioROM.zip radio rom has either HTC_BOOT 0108 or HTC_BOOT 0107 radio boot loaders
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam Software Upgradin] Amlethae:
WAIT!!!!!!

You must know that the two rectangular gold pieces you are talking about (at middle distance between the USB connector and the two screw holes on the right side of the circuit board, at the bottom) are NOT FOR ANY ANTENNA. They are for the phone's Vibrator Motor which is easy to forget because the motor is attached to the back plastic piece that comes off when you take the phone apart.
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam Software Upgradin] pof:
@TRJS: Hermes radios work in breeze too, see here. So I don't see why the trinity radio shouldn't work if it is compatible with hermes... but at your own risk ;)

@the archer: the link is wrong.
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam Software Upgradin] the archer:
@the archer: the link is wrong.[/QUOTE]

Sorry pof

This link ftp://xda:xda@ftp.xda-developers.com/Trinity/Radio_Roms/Trinity_GSM_GPS_ENABLED_radioROM.zip
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam Software Upgradin] pof:
It has HTC_BOOT 0107, that's the one I was using (ver. 1.22)
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam Software Upgradin] the archer:
Pof,

have just tried to upgrade got the error 114 as i should get. but when i have checked the radio version in the device info it still states 1.18.00.10. any ideas?
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam Software Upgradin] tbern123:
Same here, I ahve a Herm300, thought I would try it and see if I get different results, but no joy
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam Software Upgradin] TRJS:
Breeze's wannabe-GPS-Output

Ok, flashing Breeze with the GPS-enabled Radio-ROM worked fine, the device is not bricked, and the radio still seems to work flawlessly. But the GPS-output (via MTTY) is as unusable as on Hermes; comparing the first few dozens of lines it's exactly the same like the output sun75 posted. I was only able to put the device next to the window where also my BT-GPS receiver doesn't get a good signal, but I guess a position outside the room wouldn't change anything. I may try that out tomorrow, though. Anyway, it's interesting enough that in principle Breeze, too, seems to be GPS-capable...
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam Software Upgradin] the archer:
Pof,

I've tried the upgrade a few times but with not luck, during the update the new radio version is listed as 99.99 is this correct? i'm running HTC 1.35 Rom with bootloader 1.04, have you any ideas Pof?:confused:
[8525, TyTN, MDA Vario II, JasJam Software Upgradin] Da_Blitz:
thanks for the heads up on the gps repeater and the fact that that bit is for the vibrator. soves me some time :)