yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[General Topics] vijay555:
I wonder - if it's running OS X or another rounded OS for third party apps (which I'm sure they will want to support for revenue, signing $$, branding $$ etc), then porting something like VNC for non-DRM videos etc should be possible. So third party apps == api == iphone-develops :)

V
[General Topics] hanmin:
Just notice something.. they didn't mentioned much about their PIM, huh?

Anyway, as for 3rd party software, I'm not sure which one is better. WM5 have crap native software, that people have to write software for it (but easily written) OR iPhone with great native software that people don't really need much 3rd party software.
[General Topics] Menneisyys:
My quick report:

It’s widely known Apple has started the entire PDA business, long before Palm or Microsoft. My original Newton MessagePad, their first PDA released back in 1993 (and, unfortunately, discontinued in 1998), is still working great.

MessagePads were really revolutionary at the time and their only problem was character recognition: the hardware / input recognition couldn't be sufficient enough back then to flawlessly support this. (No wonder Microsoft was trying hard to avoid any kind of input recognition at first; this is why the first WindowsCE (1.0)-based devices, back in 1997, all had built-in keyboards and it was only in 1998 that, with the introduction of Palm size PC's, they have introduced character recognition and pen-based character input.)

Now, it seems, Apple has something equally revolutionary and unmatched.

The entire Windows Mobile / (mobile) Linux / Symbian scene is eagerly awaiting new info / prototypes of Apple's new device, the iPhone, slated later (June) this year. It looks VERY promising and puts most current smart phones, both Microsoft Windows Mobile/Smartphone, Symbian- and Linux-based, into shame in a lot of respects. For example, it's said to run OS X - that is, a full Linux environment, and not just a dumbed-down one. The latter isn't new for Sharp Zaurus or Nokia Internet Tablet 770 / 800 users; the inclusion of the OS in a phone sold not only in Japan (currently, it's only Japan that Linux-based phones are sold; the Sharp Zaurus devices also available in English and through other channels don't have a built-in phone and neither do Nokia's two Internet Tablet models) is a real breakthrough, though.

Make sure you check out the specifications of iPhone.

The specs are pretty cool, particularly screen resolution, thickness and size-wise. It's probably only the lack of HSDPA or even UMTS that seems to be a bit problematic (the phone only supports the "slow" EDGE).

I'll keep you posted on the new device as soon as new info is published. I'll also keep linking in worthy threads of discussion. Start with the XDA-Developers thread; here's the AximSite one; at HowardForums, there're several of them: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 etc. Make sure you enter the word "iPhone" here to get the list of all threads - it's certainly worth checking them all out!
[General Topics] Menneisyys:
I don't think it's impossible it'll have the desktop OS - after all, the Sharp Zaurus also has pdaXrom , which is a FULL X Window environment able to run desktop apps (if you have the RAM ;) ); also see for example http://www.users.on.net/~hluc/myZaurus/jumbo/xqtjumbo.html
[General Topics] Menneisyys:
Certainly bad news - we're always forgotten :(
[General Topics] sbsshadow:
Do we think it will be available here in the UK ?

Steve
[General Topics] vijay555:
Menneisyys: I very much doubt it will have anything like a full OS X, but I'm quoting from Engadget's report on the keynote speech,

I imagine that's their own hyperbole and not Jobs'.

V
[General Topics] s4vva:
see you later htc, i love this thing!
[General Topics] Menneisyys:
We'll see. On my Zaurus, the main problem with a fully-fledged Linux is the available RAM - you can't, for example, open more than a handful of tabs in the Web browser without the 64M RAM being filled in completely. Otherwise, it's running great and the compatibility with desktop apps can't be beaten.

If Apple puts in, say, 256M of RAM (there's no word on the available RAM as yet), then, I think a fully-fledged Linux implementation can be safely run, without any problems.
[General Topics] paulrockliffe:
Does it not run 4 or 8gigs of RAM, depending on what flavour you've got?
[General Topics] vijay555:
I imagine the 4/8gb is storage, ie mu$ic etc.

The OS will probably have an indepedent memory setup, not shared memory, and as Menneisyys says hopefully >64mb! There's no reason why not, we'd pay for the performance, and as with all Apple, there's a lot of bells and whistles that are resource heavy.

sbsshadow: it says European release a few months after US (June).

V
[General Topics] hanmin:
Is it possible to have 256MB RAM on a portable 'always-on' device. As according to this Microsoft page,

The reason why you never saw 256 MB of RAM in a Microsoft Windows Mobile 2003–based Pocket PC is that the device would run for a minute, detect that the battery was critically low, and turn off.

Unless they are going to use Flash memory as RAM, which may heavily decrease the lifespan of the phone itself, considering there is a limit of how many write you can perform on a Flash memory. Or iPhone will have a user replacable Flash-memory-based-RAM.
[General Topics] Menneisyys:
That'd be an overkill - 256M RAM should be sufficient to run a full X. (See my Zaurus remarks - I've played with these devices and Linux distros a lot).
[General Topics] Menneisyys:
That's an urban legend now and no longer topical, particularly if you can fully shut down the entire device (as is the case with WM5 or flash-based Linux devices like the Sharp Zaurii) to completely stop RAM refreshing. If you do shut down the device, the additional power consumption of the 256M RAM will only decrease the overall battery life by about, say, 5. If you don't because it's only suspended to listen to incling calls, then, about 30% at most.

I also have a 128M RAM, 1640 mAh device (the PL720); it has stellar battery life, even without any kind of deep suspension. I've even published my battery consumption results somewhere; it was around 5% / a day, the same as the WM5 64M RAM 1100 mAh x51v (the Dell Axims are really hard on batteries and use very cheap (and crappy) components, which can clearly be seen in this respect too) and two times more than the 1800 mAh iPAQ hx4700. 5% a day in suspended mode isn't much at all if you have 128M of RAM (at 1640 mAh).

That is, including 256M RAM in a portable device shouldn't be avoided because of sheer power consumption issues as long as Apple uses non-low-end, non-power-hungry RAM memory - that is, anything any decent, non-low-end current PPC uses.

I wouldn't say it's a problem either - all flash memory controllers have an intelligent mapping algorith that maps out already-useless memory cells. That is, current flash memories are virtually indestructible - you'll only see some (slight) caapcity decrease, NOT the entire ROM chip being rendered completely useless. (Of course, flash is still about two times of magnitude slower to write than RAM. That is, its better to avoid putting cache in flash ROM entirely.)
[General Topics] bigshape:
so who's gonna be first with a new unlock screen app with a finger slide for the hermes? and the dialer + contacts looks pretty sweet too... :D
[General Topics] Oliy:
We'll see what Crossbow brings, but from what I have seen so far, the iPhone looks like it has roughly the same capabilities as my old Wizard, and without the keyboard which I simply couldn't do without. It's nice an thin, of course, but that's also because it doesn't have a keyboard.

Apart from that, what has it got? A nice GUI. Surely with a little more freedom to customize the WM UI, and a dab hand at Photoshop, we could make our devices look that good.
[General Topics] Menneisyys:
It also has a HVGA screen, as opposed to QVGA. And, if it will indeed have OS X, then, you'll be able to, in most cases, by simply recompiling, standard OS X or even Unix/ Linux apps, as is the case with the pdaXrom-based Zaurii.
[General Topics] cr2:
Unless somebody has hardcoded/assumed the window dimensions and font dpi, a (Linux X11) GUI app does not care about the display size.
[General Topics] KTamas:
From Engadget Mobile:

:(

Well, if its really OSX... bring it on, *nix guys, you can get a terminal up on it in no time probably :)
[General Topics] cr2:
If this apple phone uses PXA272 CPU (like magician/alpine/et al.)

the OS firmware can be locked into the builtin CPU flash.

Sometimes one must be very happy that wince security is nonexistent,

and allows to load/run any code :D
[General Topics] CWKJ:
Launched.

Can be bought in U.S. now?

Anyone bought the phone and try?
[General Topics] cr2:
I wish somebody in the US bought it, opened it and posted the motherboard

pictures :D Then we will know which CPU, BT and WIFI chipsets are used.
[General Topics] KTamas:
The iPhone wont be available till June in the US.
[General Topics] Rudegar:
you cant run normal macosX applications on it unless it's cpu use the same instructions set as the mac cpu

otherwise they will have to emulate those instructionsset

which will hurt speed a bit

binfiles like exe are hex instructionsset data you cant just run them on a totaly diff cpu

of cause this could also bring up how they handle the whole running the same applications on intel due 2 core and gX series

guess duo 2 core is that much faster they can emulate gX :P
[General Topics] joe_dude:
I think there'll be a iPhone-developers site up soon. ;) Seriously though, if you thought that the WM phones were a pain to "enhance", the iPhone is gonna be a heck of a lot worse.

Apple wants a "great user experience", not a great hacking experience. To get it to do more than what is officially supported is probably gonna be a real pain. Not that it won't be done (lots of geniuses out there), but I don't want to spend more even *more* time reading/learning/tinkering than I already do with my Prophet. :eek:

But the real show-stopper IMHO is the lack of handwriting support. The stylus makes a PDA in non-alphabet languages (i.e. a large chunk of the world) easy to use. It's the killer app, so-to-speak.

So while the iPhone might be a useful device for most Western countries, it'll be just a cool, trendy toy for the rest of the world IMHO. But I'm sure that will change in the future....
[General Topics] rgbmode:
Why it looks cool

It does look cool but honestly I rather stick with my Dash. It has music and I can play movies so does the dash. Google maps have that too. Phone got phone. so other then the cool interface honestly it is nothing new. It is like the equivalent of a WinMobile phone with Media player, Wi-Fi, GSM phone capabilities, Bluetooth and same things we may find just that it is the Apple Mac mobile version with iPod. I heard something bout it having GPS now if that is true then it receives kudos, but if not then it is fairly the same.

Dash: $150.00 after $100.00 rebate

2gb micro-SD: $80.00 after rebates x2 :$160.00 for 4bg of swapable memory.

GPS navigation system for Smartphone: $250.00 Less if you get an after market GPS-receiver that has blue-tooth.

Total price: $550.00

iPhone: I've heard about $499.00 for the 4gb and like $600.00 for the 8gb

So there are some pros and cons.

Good it does have MAC OS X mobile, Mac is known for being secure/safe.

Bad thing Windows has been there so long there are more things for it.

I don't like touch screens if you touch them with oily or dirty hands you may mess the screen up by scratching it or making visibility harder.

I like using the same flash card for my camera, word/pdf/presentations for work, music/movies for my phone, mobile scripture reader for those sundays.

So in my case buying two 2gb micro sd cards sounds better then being stuck with 4gb just for one item.

Dash has an adapter it is sold for HTC s620 to connect a projector to display presentations straight from the phone. So in my case being able to expand my device for multiple functions at my option is best. Having an initial low cost and ability to buy more is better for me then being stuck with items I won't use.

But then again for every nut there is an individualized solution.

If you want to show off, then iPhone since it will be the thing.
[General Topics] _Nomad_:
According to engadget the iPhone wont be a "pda" as it will only allow first-party software...

Read the full article here
[General Topics] Menneisyys:
Yup, it's only widgets that you can install on it. Very bad news :(
[General Topics] _Nomad_:
Bad news indeed. They can't be this stupid. Hopefully we'll see a change before release.
[General Topics] vbJoe:
Very bad news, ok its got a great display and maybe the user interface will keep you playing around with it a little longer than a plain motorola but if you can only install widgets .. its as useful as motorola and nothing more ...

Unless they do release an sdk and do a uturn on the widgets only idea I think this will be a toy for the tarts not for the boys.
[General Topics] vijay555:
What if you're both a tart and a boy? I'm fully qualified!

V
[General Topics] vbJoe:
lol! same here actually ... I do have a motorola krzr .. and its nice! but still .. it ain't my exec, it answers calls and looks kinda flash my exec does all sorts and if wanted to I could throw something together in visual studio and run it on it.. awesome!

but really what I was getting at is by the looks of things this is not a windows mobile replacement in the slightest, and it would replace my tarty phone not my exec.
[General Topics] axis77a:
So obvious - now its been done !! - innovative software

Awsome ! truely great software (eg finger control .... no stylus needed) ...

I wonder if hardware is up to it ...

eg Macro / camera focus ? GPS ? A2dp stereo BT (that works !!) ? ... and hope the hacks to load/unload MP3's still works (as on ipods) avoiding itunes monopoly. PC connectivity ?
[General Topics] deathMiata:
Although there are many replies saying "I'd rather stick to my [insert name of WM5 device here]...", not everyone exactly fits in that market demographic. If Palm Treo users went on to a WM5 board and said something to the degree of "WM5 blows! Palm has been out for AGES! Go Palm OS or go home!" I don't think it would quite fly.

Steve Jobs main market is the power user who wants to merge their iPod, mobile phone, and a PDA device into one. Here's a great statement about what point they are targetting the phone to:

"Before we get into it, let me talk about a category of things ... the most advanced phones are called smartphones. They typically involve a phone, have plastic little keyboards on them, the problem is they're not so smart and they're not so easy to use. If you make a biz school 101 graph, cellphones are at the bottom... smartphones are a little smarter, but they're harder to use."

- Quoted from the Engaget MacWorld 2007 Keynote speech page (http://www.engadget.com/2007/01/09/live-from-macworld-2007-steve-jobs-keynote/)

Let's stick to the discussion about the phone itself please.

As far as things go with language recognition for the iPhone in other languages... I would not be surprised for the Asian pictograph languages (Japanese, Chinese, Korean) that you will be able to use your fingers as a stylus and draw out the characters. The Motorola A732 had an interesting concept where the number pad was touch sensitive. This was interesting as you could draw out the characters and the GUI would display a preview before confirming input.

Here's a link about the Motorola A732's touch keypad recognition:

www.motorola.com/content.jsp?globalObjectId=7599

There's another link somewhere with an interview with the linguistics specialist of Motorola, but I can't seem to find it... :(

I would imagine the same concept could be easily applied for those countries. Apple is pretty good about localization, so I don't think there should be any worries or qualms about Asian region countries. :)
[General Topics] Pawlisko:
My few thoughts about this iPhone.

1. Lack of exchangable battery - bad,

2. GSM/GPRS/EDGE/Quad-band - OK, but lacks UMTS/HSDPA/HSUPA is major dissapointment,

3. Wi-Fi b/g - nice, but b/g is nowadays standard, not big deal,

4. No 3rd party software - bad, really bad,

5. Battery life - nothing, zero, nada. Why they did not tell what is expected standby time? Because it sux and with 3G you would have to go all the time with power cord,

6. Graphics - Nice, very nice - Apple always was king in graphics,

7. Design - I do not like it, but this is personal agenda,

8. Data usage - Jobs was making fun of BB, but BB is king of data compression, even for havy users 20 MB is plenty, I guess that unlimited data plan will be needed for users of iPhone,

9. Sensors - stupid idea, if I will move my hand screen will go crazy. Only good idea is screen off when by ear side, but this was not their idea. First was Ericsson R520m with ear sensor - when phone was not by ear speaker phone was on, thou nice idea users hated it,

10. Contacs - if I am PC user I should switch to what? iContacts? I am predicting a lot of problems with sync with Outlook.

OK, I am heavy PC user. I am not in graphics or publishing - thou I do not need Mac. I use IBM laptop because it was design to work in many places with no problems, additional programs to configure different network accesses ie. Work, Home, Airport Lounges, Starbucks, Other Networks - different credentials, security certs etc. It HAS to work, I do not care if it is black and square, not rounded. Same I demand from phone. Has to work all the time, if I use up battery I always have spare. Using only mail and sync with exchange I have data usage of 50-100 MB per month. So I guess that this phone will have more then that. So monthly it will be far more then 100USD, and Jobs is talking about saving money?

What I would like to get from Apple is iTunes for WindowsMobile with full Apple DRM to listen and watch stuff I bought from them. But with iPhone it won't happen. AFAIR revenue ratio iPod to iTunes is 1 to 8. They make 8 times more money on iTunes. Give me that not product which is not good for me.
[General Topics] Oliy:
I rarely use my stylus these days anyway, a combination of hardware buttons, keyboard, or icons big enough on the screen that a finger will do (i.e. TomTom) means that I will only use the stylus when I am browsing the internet or something (not often). I don't like the idea of it not having hardware buttons, it means you will have to use the screen for everything, and your finger will get in the way of what you are trying to see on the screen. HTC has been adding buttons to their phone - my Wizard had 10 plus a D-pad, while my Hermes has 13 plus a D-pad and a scroll wheel, and it's easier to use.

With flash prices tumbling, 8gb could seem pretty mediocre by the time the iPhone makes it over here, in a year's time at the earliest. An 4gb SD card can be had for under £50 now, and probably about £25-£30 in another 12 months.

HTC seem to be bringing out new phones every 6 months so I'm sure they, or someone, can come up with something as appealing within a year.

However, we can at least be grateful to Apple for raising the bar in user interfaces, because I must admit, it looks sweet.
[General Topics] vijay555:
And given their work on the Newton, and the what, Billion + potential users they would be excluding, I'm sure the thought of non Western alphabets might have occurred to them. Particularly given where they make their stuff, lol!

V
[General Topics] joe_dude:
Re: Foreign language input

Can't disagree that iPhone should/will have other character input methods, but the stylus is simply the most convenient.

Maybe it's not so bad in other languages, but writing in Chinese with (fat) fingers is less than elegant. Thick brush (i.e. finger) means big strokes/characters, which slows down writing speed and accuracy.

Other input methods use standard keyboard keys to construct the desired character, but man, once you use stylus + touch screen, it's hard to go back.

So that's why I think the iPhone will be a step backwards at least in some parts of the world. Or just type in English and forget the hassle. :cool:
[General Topics] vijay555:
Guys, how expensive will it be for them to provide a stylus? Come on, I can't imagine this being a deal breaker. Question is if there is support for those languages, why haven't they shown it? But if they're going for worldwide release, I can't see them trying to force everyone to type in English.

V
[General Topics] joe_dude:
My apologies for being long-winded.... :o

Anyway, I'm guessing the iPhone will use "radical" character input (i.e. characters broken up into its parts) on its virtual keyboard, then choose from a drop-down list. Clunky, but okay.

I highly doubt they are going to add a stylus, since multi-touch is suppose to be its way-too-cool replacement. ;)
[General Topics] Oliy:
Agreed, a stylus is small, fiddly, losable, and decidedly un-Apple.

In a way, it had to be that way for Apple to have product differentiation. If it had a normal phone keypad, it would have been just like a normal phone with a different operating system (who's going to notice anyway?) and can play music just like any normal phone these days.

If it had a stylus, regardless of whether it particularly needed one for operation, it would be seen as a PDA and shunned by the masses who want a phone to make calls with, not an organiser that does everything but is consequently a little more complex to use.

It had to be different, and have neither buttons not a stylus. If anyone can pull off something this slick, it would be Apple. However, as many have pointed out, for a large number of languages, particular of Asian origin, this could be a big problem.

Apple has probably released this at the right time. The mp3 player / phone markets have been converging for a couple of years and in another couple of years the discrete portable mp3 player market may start seeing a downward trend. Apple can now continue to sell iPods in the guise of a phone / portable computer.
[General Topics] vijay555:
Lol

"Windows Mobile 5 Already Does What the iPhone Does - Gizmodo"

http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/macworld...-already-does-what-the-iphone-does-227778.php

V
[General Topics] hanmin:
I'll get sued for this..

I've finally got "the letter" from Apple and I have since removed all copyright meterials from this forum.

[UPDATE:] Why make your phone look like iPhone when your phone can look this good. Tell me when iPhone can do this.

- top = cLaunch

- bottom = phoneAlarm

btw: the phoneAlarm is not really very practical in this manner.

Attached:

- Ripped icons 32 x 32.

- phoneAlarm skin

FAQ

[1] How is it done?

Use any 32x32 icons with cLaunch (freeware) Read this thread on how to use this cLaunch. Thanks decknologist, for the tutorial. You can try these icons spacing settings

Icon size: 32

Icon name width: 46

Icon name heught: 12

Icon margins: Horizontal= 5, Vertical= 10

Windwos margin: Left= 8, Right= 0, Top=0, Bottom= 0.

[2] How do I make the black theme? I have grey bars instead.

The black theme and all instructions are available here.

[3] The clock is dull

You have have clock on your WM5 today screen,

something like this, using VJ's todaytoggle and Rotlaus's rlToday

[4] Why can't I push the bottom bar to hit the bottom?

Some of the phone may have those icons on the system tray. I'm not sure, but thallanor seems to have the problem and he has solved the problem

[5] I can get the carbon fiber skin to work on phoneAlarm?

thallanor solved that problem too

[n] Still have problems ..

For general WM5 theming questions, direct your question to this thread instead.
[General Topics] cr2:
LOL. no respect for intellectual property :)
[General Topics] belfast-biker:
I'm a recent Mac convert, and I've been through quite a few Pocket PCs in the past, never really flirting with other OS's like Crackberries, Treos or Palms, but given the fond memories I had of my first PDA, an Apple Newton, I'm SO BUYING THIS.

Apple are the Nintendo of the Computer world.... they just do things wonderfully.