yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Xperia Z3 Compact General] LastQuark:
The metering mode is different. That's what the difference is.

The Z1C is center weighted. It means the camera adjust the expose (aperture + e-shutter speed) to the amount of light that was projected at the center of the photo.

The Z3C is pattern metering mode. It is likely similar to matrix metering where the whole scene is evaluated and the exposure is determine from the amount of light that was programmed in a pattern metering mode.

Any comparison should be based on similar metering modes. You can set this up under settings -> metering while in camera manual mode.
[Xperia Z3 Compact General] boojay:
I noticed that difference too. The Z3C is noticeably worse than the Z1C using superior auto under those conditions, but as long as manual mode under the exact same settings is at least as good, I can deal with that.
[Xperia Z3 Compact General] tocirah1:
Muken, is there any chance we could get you to retake the photos in Manual mode with the same settings across both phone? It would also be really neat if you could try out a couple different modes (under Manual > 8MP > SCN).
[Xperia Z3 Compact General] muken:
Not until tonight, but I also did manual shooting yesterday. It seems to be processing in HDR mode that is clearly affected.

In Sony's compact cameras such as the RX100mk2 which I own, it takes a series of images (up to 5 I think) when shooting in low light, then it processes those images and creates a single image of it. I guess they do something similar in their mobile cameras and that this function is lacking without the DRM keys. If that is not the case, then the Z1C camera is superior to the Z3C which would be odd, because the images produced in high contrast or low light conditions are not on par with Z1C with a locked boot loader.

And just as a side note, it doesn't really matter that the metering modes differ in the two shots, since the apperature, shutter speed and ISO sensitivity are the same in both shots.

---------- Post added at 06:06 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:04 AM ----------

Have you unlocked your bootloader?

Have you tried HDR in manual mode?
[Xperia Z3 Compact General] boojay:
Unfortunately, I haven't received my Z3C yet, but I plan on testing it thoroughly prior to rooting it (which I will likely end up doing since I plan on doing a lot of customizing) and comparing as many photos under various conditions to see if the process affects the camera at all.
[Xperia Z3 Compact General] Iruwen:
The only valid comparison I'd accept is Z3C to Z3C, not different devices. Nobody knows what exactly changed between Z3C and Z1C. Also use static lighting (no daylight influence) and fix the phone.
[Xperia Z3 Compact General] biniek:
well Sony introduce in Z3 super druper "ISO million something" function so it is to be expected that low light shots can have more noise, it is simple optics, same leans can't deliver more light, but higher ISO will deliver more noise ;).

Nevertheless I will wait with rooting mine z3c until TA backup arrives ;)
[Xperia Z3 Compact General] Iruwen:
Before TA-Backup is possible, you'll already have to have root ;)
[Xperia Z3 Compact General] biniek:
So, maybe I didn't understand it correctly, you telling me that z3c has same exploit(or similar) as z2 and I can root it without unlocking bootloader, I don't need custom recovery, only root to streem music via airplay and use Xposed and similar tools. Sorry for being newbie but my understanding of the procedure for z3 was that I need CWM to root and need open bootloader to load CWM and openig BL will delete DRM.?
[Xperia Z3 Compact General] Pondera:
Hey guys. I am considering to buy this phone but the root process of Sony makes me think twice, in fact tripple. Isn't losing these features very bad? Is there no way to get them back?
[Xperia Z3 Compact General] DroidZombie:
People have tried framaroot and towelroot, but they don't work. We need a new exploit for android 4.4.4.
[Xperia Z3 Compact General] LastQuark:
Actually, it does. It can mean both cameras were not positioned precisely at the same spot. They just happen to produce the same values. The point is that, it is not a controlled test. Variables still exists that we cannot make a judgement from 1 pic alone.

I have 2 units of Z3C's. I'll unlock one of them and run tests in the next few days and see how it goes.
[Xperia Z3 Compact General] tocirah1:
Thank you so much! That'll help a lot!
[Xperia Z3 Compact General] muken:
That would be fantastic!

Please try the backlight mode and lowlight modes.
[Xperia Z3 Compact General] muken:
I just received confirmation from Sony via Anna Aleryd that the image processing algorithms used for low light processing will be lost.

Source: https://plus.google.com/103268679734951753634/posts/X6JYNrGAMYP
[Xperia Z3 Compact General] dillalade:
Makes sense that's exactly what happened when I ULd BL on my z1c.

Patiently awaiting an exploit before ULing this time in my z3c.

My camera generally went to sh!t on my z1c.

Great information thanks

All the trigger happy users who have ULd BL will be unhappy to say the least.
[Xperia Z3 Compact General] Iruwen:
Thank you for the heads up, that's pretty disgusting. Sony should make this very clear on their site since it's irreversible.
[Xperia Z3 Compact General] marumari:
They added something today about it on their unlock site, but not before a bunch of people had already unlocked their phones. I've had so many unlocked phones before this, and not a single one of them had this kind of issue. It is truly outrageous to see such terrible customer service and developer relations. Who would want to develop in an ecosystem where they are treated so belligerently?
[Xperia Z3 Compact General] NamenIos:
He mentioned another Kernel, this is not a confirmation.
[Xperia Z3 Compact General] tocirah1:
The Kernel is stock insecure, so functionality should be the same.
[Xperia Z3 Compact General] Iruwen:
I also forwarded this to some wellknown German sites to further raise the awareness for this issue. Publicity is always good, especially since I still don't see a good technical reason for this. But at least they edited the text on their site...
[Xperia Z3 Compact General] Scottland:
As much as it's a pain in the backside, I can kind of see Sony's POV on this. They would rather keep there proprietary software etc out of the hands of people who like to unpick/reverse engineer things - which you would need root/system access to be able to do. Having said that, most developers are not really interested in that but other OEM's might be?

If there's a workaround/exploit out there that allows it - then it becomes irrelevant as anyone who wants to do it will find a way. It's like the argument of not locking your car, if someone really wants to get in - they will.

I'd like to see Sony update the process somehow to keep us happy, it's not unknown for an OEM to do this as HTC did it a few years back.
[Xperia Z3 Compact General] NamenIos:
How do you know that? He just states:

So unless he uses stock FTF Kernel this can be related to the Kernel and not the DRM keys.
[Xperia Z3 Compact General] marumari:
Yeah, but HTC has long since changed their ways. And Sony doesn't need protection from OEMs: they already have trade secret, copyright, and patent law on their side. I doubt any OEM would open themselves up to multi-billion dollar lawsuits just to pilfer some image processing code.
[Xperia Z3 Compact General] tocirah1:
Fair Enough.

If anyone else posts results, please make sure you're running a completely stock kernel and that the only modification you have away from stock is an unlocked bootloader.
[Xperia Z3 Compact General] Scottland:
I don't disagree and I'm sure that's not the case, I'm just saying I can see Sony's viewpoint and why they might have implemented it like this.
[Xperia Z3 Compact General] marumari:
Sure, I can understand if their intent is to drive developers away from the Xperia series and kill the community that develops around it.

Google: Unlock your bootloader? Sure, no problem. It'll just reset your phone back to factory default, and it may void your warranty if you damage the hardware due to unlocking. Oh, and feel free to relock your bootloader at any time.

Sony: Unlock your bootloader? Sure, no problem. It'll just reset your phone back to factory default, and will completely void your warranty. Also your camera will stop working properly. And X-Reality will be lost. And Miracast. And screen mirroring. And Videos Unlimited. Oh, and you can never get that functionality back, no matter what you do in the future.

And then they wonder why the Xperia devices have a tiny development community.
[Xperia Z3 Compact General] clank201:
I sent my unlocked Xperia T to Sony a year ago because of a brick (it's not like it was their problem) and they applied the warranty and repaired it for free. Also, it's not like Nexus phones have the features you listed, like X-Reality, Videos Unlimited etc. or any equivalent.
[Xperia Z3 Compact General] LastQuark:
Well, this is certainly bad news. So they use DRM to protect a software that controls the hardware. Ouch. They should have used other protection schemes and not DRM. This will diminish the value of the phones we thought is worth it when we purchased it. :(

This will produce very bad publicity for Sony. They are trying to gain a foothold in this space but, unless they change their ways, the Sony brand will continue to be irrelevant. They wonder why they are losing billions. This is one of them. 10 years from now, I can see Sony becoming Sony Life Insurance, Japan. :p
[Xperia Z3 Compact General] Bäcker:
You know that Nexus devices are focused on developers and Xperia on "normal users"?

Making comparisons how these companies deal with unlocks is pointless.

We should also keep in Mind that the devs are just a fraction of the Sony, Samsung, LG... customer base.

Yeah, we should appreciate when these Companies make our lifes easier, but it will not hurt them much if they don't.

Although the last statement is probably more true for Samsung than for Sony.
[Xperia Z3 Compact General] marumari:
Except that Google has sold a crapton of Nexus 5 devices to "normal" users:

http://www.theverge.com/2014/1/30/5...one-nerds-google-calls-nexus-5-a-sales-winner

And regardless, power users and developers drive people to devices. They are the people who are most likely to recommend devices to friends and family. They bring a lot of visibility to devices on websites and social media. Those developers drove an absolute ton of sales for Google and their Nexus 5. Google has done essentially zero advertising for the Nexus 5, and has sold millions of them, despite their middling screen and battery life.
[Xperia Z3 Compact General] Bäcker:
last OT from my side:

the Nexus sold that well as you got high-end specs at a midrange price. They were not meant to generate money because googles does not make money selling hardware. It's not important who bought the device but who it was intended for in the first place.
[Xperia Z3 Compact General] DroidZombie:
Why is this such a big shock to everyone? We knew loss of the DRM keys was a problem on past devices. Sony isn't going to suddenly change their stance on the software THEY developed for THEIR cameras. If you bought this phone for the camera then that feature is more important to you than root. If root is more important then unlock your bl. Like Backer said, this is a phone for normal users.
[Xperia Z3 Compact General] paulcbetts:
S-Front appears to be broken on my unlocked Z3 (not compact). Other audio settings like equalizer, ClearAudio+, Surround Sound work.
[Xperia Z3 Compact General] chesterr:
Haha bro I mentioned about this in Z2 forum too but nobody believed me, and I was too lazy to point it out, we gotta find a way to root on locked bootloader. :silly: hope towelroot works like it's in Nexus 7 2013
[Xperia Z3 Compact General] Maikel205:
Is foto quality also affected when using different camera app, like Google Camera? For most people unlocking bootloader is ment for installing custom roms, so you won't have Sony camera anyway.
[Xperia Z3 Compact General] tribemac:
If you install a non stock rom you get worse camera quality no matter what... So för those people this isn't a problem at all.

Skickat från min LG-V500 via Tapatalk
[Xperia Z3 Compact General] Technomancer:
This looks very similar to Xperia Z Ultra GPE problems with unlocked bootloader - starting from 4.4.3 autofocus stopped working in camera making camera unusable. See http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=2792768
[Xperia Z3 Compact General] Rootk1t:
As far as i remember at least x-reality was ported, so it can work even with unlocked bootloader.
[Xperia Z3 Compact General] mickliq:
The loss of camera quality really makes me think about unlocking my BL. My phone has been waiting for me all week while I've been on business travel, which I guess ends up being a good thing since I probably would have unlocked the BL when it first came out. At this point I may wait to see if an exploit is found to root without BL unlock or a camera fix for the BL unlock develops (e.g. Sony relents). The two things I'll miss without root is Titanium and Xposed. I can probably live without TiBu for now (just a longer setup process to get all my apps loaded) but Xposed is going to be tough (!). The other thing I need is adblocking but it looks like there are solutions without root.
[Xperia Z3 Compact General] Iruwen:
Because they didn't tell anybody about it. And because there's good reasons for losing Miracast for example, but not some camera software function.

Btw, I'm a "normal user", and I want root for a plethora of good reasons.
[Xperia Z3 Compact General] aumAP:
Ahmmm... In future, Developers or Custom Roms can solve this problems?

...Sorry for asked dumb question here. :o
[Xperia Z3 Compact General] DroidZombie:
Just a disclaimer before I begin. None of what I'm going to say is personal, I'm just debating your points.

Ok they didn't tell us. So do you get mad at everyone for not telling you the sun is going to rise in the morning even when you know it will?

As for the camera function, I'd bet money they use the same software in their other products, products that actually make them money. So they want to protect that software.

And as a system administrator I have to say that root is not normal. The number of normal users in my company that have root access is zero. Normal users tend to screw things up. Like ip tables. And I totally agree that there are some amazing things that you can only do as root and these features (like decent pie controls and ad blocking) should be available to everyone. Unfortunately, Sony can't just give us root access to what is basically their system. Yes we own the hardware, but I bet if you check the licencing agreement they still own the software and are just leasing it to us on the condition we don't look at it.

Your turn [emoji3]

---------- Post added at 01:41 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:37 AM ----------

I'm sure there will be an exploit eventually that lets us root without unlocking. As for custom roms duplicating the software...Maybe, if they care to.
[Xperia Z3 Compact General] kaopho:
Anybody know if is the same on Z2 ?
[Xperia Z3 Compact General] cyphomatic:
Do the drm-keys have any infuence when working with thirdparty apps on a locked bootloader? I am under the impression I got better results on other apps as the stock camera app.

If not, I wouldn't mind loosing the drm-keys. First thing I would do with root is removing the horrible cluttered stock camera app and replace it.

I even found a third party AOSP app solution to shoot 20MP HDR on stock/locked bootloader.
[Xperia Z3 Compact General] NisseGurra:
I use snap camera on my unlocked z3c:

20MP available:

http://tinypic.com/r/2cffb0g/8
[Xperia Z3 Compact General] duraaraa:
Ouch!

The main reason I bought this phone was MirrorLink, so if this is true, I will have to wait however long for an exploit, I guess. Can anyone confirm if this is really the case, specifically with MirrorLink? I had an Xperia ZL and Mirrorlink worked fine after unlocking the bootloader.
[Xperia Z3 Compact General] marumari:
Absolutely, I couldn't agree more. That's why when DirectX stopped working after I installed a hex editor on my Windows machine, I was practically relieved. I mean, I could have been working for Valve, or Sony, or Apple, just waiting to try to steal those incredible DirectX secrets that they use in all their other products. Similarly, I was pleased to note that the speakers only worked at half volume in my car after installing a new head unit, and that my KitchenAid mixer stopped being able to mix at speeds 7-10 after I started using a 3rd party blade in it. I mean, companies have to defend their intellectual property, and if us customers have to face the consequences for that, then how can it be called anything besides justice?

Honestly, I cannot possibly understand why people not only accept when companies treat them poorly, but actually rush to defend them. Canon, Nikon, HTC, Samsung, Apple... everybody has their own proprietary camera processing software. And nobody besides Sony feels that it's necessary to punish one of their most visible userbases in this manner.
[Xperia Z3 Compact General] cyphomatic:
Do you experience the loss of quality without drm?
[Xperia Z3 Compact General] NisseGurra:
I will make a photo-session tomorrow and post in the photo thread.

The pics i took today looks fine for me, specially the 20MP ones.
[Xperia Z3 Compact General] kaopho:
There are patents that protects software and algorithms. It's not normal to see a camera in the party under the pretext of having to unlock the boot loader ..
[Xperia Z3 Compact General] Iruwen:
I didn't actually test this on the Z3C, but it was the case on Z1C so if somebody could confirm this, that would be relieving. Unfortunately, most people probably won't have access to MirrorLink or Miracast hardware.

That's not even a working comparison that's worth discussing. It's not like you wake up every day, seeing unlocked Xperias rising on the horizon taking low quality photos.

A better one would be:

- Sure you can tune your engine, we can't prevent you from doing so anyway. Just be aware that any damage caused by this is not covered by our warranty.

- Okay that sounds reasonable, I'm fine with that.

Then one month later....

- I tuned my engine and know my radio sounds like crap, why's that?

- Well because you tuned it, we told ya.

- Eh, no you didn't and that makes no sense. What if I revert the modifications?

- That won't help, sorry.

Nobody would accept that.

DRM doesn't protect their software. DRM protects content. Simply rooting the system via exploit without unlocking the bootloader would allow anybody to steal their software by that logic. And with or without the keys, people would have to reverse engineer it. I'm fine with Miracast and MirrorLink not working, because they require (at least partially, Miracast supports HDCP for sure) DRM. Hell, I'd even be fine with camera issues related to unlocking the bootloader if they publicly announced this. BUT you're at a complete loss when it comes to information on what exactly the consequences of unlocking are right now, it may have undesireably side effects nobody thinks of and, worst of all: it's completely irreversible, even by going back to the original software.

That's why I say that voiding the warranty for software related issues is absolutely fine. Unlocking the bootloader and installing certain software (like a 4K mod) while disabling hardware protection features may cause overheating. Or screwing with the bootloader causes a hard brick which Sony isn't responsible for.

Anyway: I'm a system administrator myself, and while you enforce certain policies in your company, nobody would be able to work with a locked down system at home. You have to be able to modify things. Even if you're running linux, you'll still need sudo sooner or later. And PCs are open systems. An Android device is way more limited, even in simple tasks. Want to write to your SD without root? Sorry. Want to see what's eating up your battery? Sorry. Want to protect your privacy? Sorry.

Sony is already giving us full root access to their system by officially allowing us to unlock the bootloader.
[Xperia Z3 Compact General] duraaraa:
It would be very hard if it didn't work. I won't test it, though, as I can't take the risk of it not working -- it's a very essential function for me.

Moving apps to the SD card, which would require root, is also somewhat essential though.

I think it's probably too early right now, but hopefully someone will have a software exploit-based root available soon.
[Xperia Z3 Compact General] DroidZombie:
Love the sarcasm.

I'm not even going to bother with the Windows comment other than to say read your eula very carefully. Your other examples don't deal with the internal workings of the products. No not even the blender.

As for other phone vendors camera apps, it is their choice to allow them to keep functioning, just like it is Sony's to make it lose functionality. Is it a good business model? Probably not, but it's their model.

My point was their stance on this issue was known from users experiences with the z1c. You can't expect them to suddenly change their ways in a year, especially without telling us they changed. They had to be screamed at and verbally beaten to even begin to open up to the dev community. You want change, start screaming at them. Start a petition thread/blog and send them all the nasty comments. Maybe they will change their minds with the next device release cycle. Then we can backport everything.

---------- Post added at 04:06 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:19 AM ----------

Sorry I'm being lazy and not breaking up your post into pieces.

Well it seems Sony doesn't share your view on the purpose of the DRM keys. In the end we can't assume to know what they cover, all we can do is speculate based on past experiences. Hence my sunrise analogy...which was AWESOME!

I'm also hugely sceptical of anything designed by or for the Japanese. I'm coming from a Japan specific gs3 variant that was a nightmare because of proprietary drivers and hardware.

As for your comments on Android in general, I agree.

I think I made the rest of my points in another reply. I'm sure you'll tell me if I didn't. [emoji16]
[Xperia Z3 Compact General] LastQuark:
DroidZombie - Not sure why you are even here in XDA Development Forums and say rooting is not normal. We are in XDA Developers Forum where 90% (exaggerating) of the discussion is about rooting, unlocking, bootloaders, and ROM. Here’s where it comes down to. Muken (Magnus) lost the functionality of his phone. It took his sheer determination to find out about this and he has to go to Sony to find out. Several developers here didn’t know about it despite whatever disclosure Sony has in their unlock website.. We are about to unlock our bootloaders but Magnus saved us all. The use of DRM in a camera feature is unprecedented and it was not disclosed by Sony. They only corrected this after the fact.

Google “z3 bootloader” arranged from the recent articles. Tell me what you see. It’s pages upon pages, news after news, blogs after blogs, different languages after languages caught surprised about not knowing on this reduced functionality after unlocking...

...yet, you are here saying Magnus is wrong.
[Xperia Z3 Compact General] cpurick:
I wonder if we're conflating some elements here. Maybe what matters isn't the DRM per se, but the TA partition which includes both the DRM and whatever proprietary signal processing algorithms Sony sees fit to protect.
[Xperia Z3 Compact General] duraaraa:
It's a bit silly to disable this partition, seeing as that as soon as an exploit is found and another rooting method is made, it can be backed up. If Sony were a bit cooler, they would just leave it be, or give us a way to back it up upon unlock of the bootloader so that we don't lose functionality if we choose to re-bootlock.