yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Xperia Z3 General] One Twelve:
There's two factors here

- the hardware ability of the device to support camera 2 api

- willingness of the vendor to implement it despite a fully compliant device.

The first one will most likely exclude devices that came out before htc one m7/ lg g2 which are confirmed as being raw capable as well as a number of midrange and lesser devices that use older sensors. Hardware is the limiting factor in which case the sensor ends up with a legacy rating. Does not apply to Z1 and above which have the latest IMX220 sensor which is capable of supporting api2. Just output from the sensor and bypass any processing, every sensor outputs raw and requires processing. So it seems odd to leave raw out.

The second part is more vague. What determines whether a vendor will do it or not ? who knows ?

Forgot to mention the xiaomi mi2 was capable of outputting raw as well as the mi3. So these were the first android raw capable devices. Oppo followed. Point to note with these two brands is they could do raw with KK and did not require L. The OPO followed soon after. Three chinese devices can currently do raw. The comon link ? IMX214 sony sensor. Same is found on the galaxy s4 as well as a couple of lenovo devices amongst others. No hardware limitations get in the way.

This has to do with the willingness of the vendor. Why does it seem too good to be true ? rather i would say i'd be surprised if they did not do it as there is no hardware limitation. There is no guarantee of getting a DNG file so they might opt for whatever variant of RAW sony uses for their other cameras and same for samsung. Which means have to use vendor specific raw processing software.
[Xperia Z3 General] radicans:
Well, it's good to see that at least some other manufacturers implement RAW. But I guess its pointless to speculate whether any particular OEM will implement or not in the future. Murphys law states we will not get it :rolleyes: , but we'll see when the day comes.

You don't have to use vendor specific software to convert RAW, unless they did something *really* funky with the sensor. The Bayer cell consists of four color cells, or three colors and one white. (Although, I think they abandoned the white cell for the Z3 sensor, last minute.) The colors inside each unit cell may of course be in any order, but a quick trial and error process should expose the order. Once you know the order, you can implement any demosaic algorithm you want. I mean this from a programmers perspective, not using a software.

Edit: I guess what you mean here is that the RAW data file itself could be output in some non-standard undocumented format, which will make it virtually impossible to decipher it. In that case, it will be darn difficult indeed. Hmm, is RAW even a standard (like TIFF, for example), or just some loose definition of sensor output data in some form or other?

Edit2: Oh good lord above, I take that back about don't needing vendor specific software. I thought RAW was a standard.. From Wikipedia:

"Providing a detailed and concise description of the content of raw files is highly problematic. There is no single raw format; formats can be similar or radically different. Different manufacturers use their own proprietary and typically undocumented formats, which are collectively known as raw format. Often they also change the format from one camera model to the next. Several major camera manufacturers, including Nikon, Canon and Sony, encrypt portions of the file in an attempt to prevent third-party tools from accessing them."

Let's hope for DNG then :)
[Xperia Z3 General] One Twelve:
No, each vendor has their own implementation of RAW. PS & LR can read the major vendors files. Its not undecipherable.

DNG is adobe's effort to standardise RAW. Similar situation in the printer world where postscript slowly became the default.

Imagine in the future if there are no readers for these specific files there is a risk of losing them. Everybody supports jpeg but variants of RAW are vendor specific. So they provide a way to convert to DNG.

Right :)
[Xperia Z3 General] jhun80:
[IMG="national harbor"]http://imageshack.com/a/img673/4817/vAsND5.jpg[/IMG]
[Xperia Z3 General] Huey85:
Find the depth of field produces pretty decent bokeh for a phone camera. Taken @ only 8mpx 16:9
[Xperia Z3 General] One Twelve:
This lens is rated as F2, in 35mm equivalent its like F11. You don't get a lot of bokeh out of a F11 (!)

You can always fake it though, in post. The defocus is hit and miss. Better would be to use snapseed and better still would be PS or its equivalent.
[Xperia Z3 General] gadjet:
Auto indoors
[Xperia Z3 General] cadboncopyvw:
Spotted this sun halo at the weekend and had to take a pic! A challenging shot with a DSLR let alone a mobile phone camera hence it's not that great but you can see the halo nicely. Tried HDR (using PRO HDR camera) but the flags blowing in the breeze made that a fail.

ISO-64 (trying to get 50 to limit noise) and 1/12500, metering set to pattern, 20MP
[Xperia Z3 General] isaali93:
https://www.flickr.com/gp/105724385@N06/s2i26Q
[Xperia Z3 General] undercover:
Just to mess with your brain..
[Xperia Z3 General] BiugEE:
My dog Penny

Pennys nose :)
[Xperia Z3 General] subhani:
Has anyone tried this app on a lollipop rom?

http://www.phonearena.com/news/New-...ing-you-full-manual-control-to-images_id64875

Sorry if this has already been posted.

Hit THANKS if I helped, cheers! Sent using a Z3 via Tapatalk.
[Xperia Z3 General] makiger:
Me in NY :D

[IMG="Ny"]https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-W1hHYwbUt48/VL7QE8_VOMI/AAAAAAAADME/OBLQYS9pbxQ/w983-h553-no/DSC_0141.JPG[/IMG]
[Xperia Z3 General] psychok9:
manual? iso?

Thank you
[Xperia Z3 General] jonnytrix83:
Vsco cam
[Xperia Z3 General] jhnvlz:
Nightlife

Manual 20mp + Lightroom + VSCO
[Xperia Z3 General] CentaXx:
The best images i took in the last month.. Well, i still think the camera is "okay" but nothing more.
[Xperia Z3 General] radicans:
In the comments section a few people tried, but it doesn't work for anyone.

Also, on the download site the author writes:

"If your device runs on Lollipop, and still the app is not compatible with it, please contact your ROM provider (e.g. Samsung, LG) and ask them why they haven't implemented Camera2 API? So far the situation looks really bad. Only Nexus 5 works perfect. Nexus 6 is almost perfect (only white balance is not working). But the rest of manufacturers are not willing to take this effort, and therefore their devices are not compatible at all."

Maybe it's too much of an effort to rewrite the camera apps for now, since the camera API is completely reworked in L?

Let's hope for the next generation phones.
[Xperia Z3 General] makiger:
Auto :)
[Xperia Z3 General] One Twelve:
Nah, key words in the para are underlined.

He won't be able to sell his app as well yet.

But if camera2 does not make the 5.0 cut, will it make the 5.1 or 5.2 cut ;)

Z3 came out 'yesterday', you got 18 months support.

On another note i noticed very few pano's in this thread like one or two posted.

lets see some more. oh and try and take them in a portrait orientation as you get more rez that way. make sure the angle of view does not exceed 120 degrees or you will see curves.

Low resolution getting people down ? use a program called hugin, free and stiches.

in landscape you can stich two with a 33% overlap, switch yer grid on, or two portraits or four in either landscape or portrait for a cool 50MP shot. That's the limit before angle of view exceeds 120 degrees.

Every try stock pano for night cityscpae ? lol exactly, but this way you can :)

You just turned your 25mm lens into 16 mm.
[Xperia Z3 General] mmoon24:
Disney World

Couple of pics from Disney World and Universal Studios at Orlando. All done with Superior Auto

[IMG="Best pic I took"]https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-LVGFZJEs_0Y/VMMZTOCmyxI/AAAAAAAACSE/e59tMwMq0gg/w1068-h601-no/DSC_0245.JPG[/IMG]

[IMG="Low Light"]https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-wndK5KQewVw/VMMZTO9t4KI/AAAAAAAACRs/N_gG-riJkuI/w1068-h601-no/DSC_0329.JPG[/IMG]

[IMG="Low Light 2"]https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-xbKgISVSX00/VMMZTKjMxEI/AAAAAAAACRs/V_5VLyzGOUM/w376-h668-no/DSC_0187.JPG[/IMG]

[IMG="Taking pics while walking"]https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-eBXbJisHt3Y/VMMZTN5tBJI/AAAAAAAACRs/pKcyn2EI_Bc/w376-h668-no/DSC_0125.JPG[/IMG]
[Xperia Z3 General] bart-videophile:
why back to z3?

Hi Candy Andy,

Could you perhaps tell me why you went back to z3 after switching to the note 4? I myself, like probably many more in this thread after seeing all those comparisons with older, lesser specced phones, am just about ready to move to the note 4 (while owning the z3 currently). What made you decide to go back?

And more specifically, how do you use the camera differently now? Do you get better results and/or do you feel it stacks up more favorably against the competition now?

Cheers,

Bart.

---------- Post added at 11:10 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:16 AM ----------

It's probably mentioned somewhere but I have looked at a lot of pages and cannot find information about the video recording quality of the z3. I'm not talking about 4k, but 'just' the hd modes. How does the Xperia z3 stack up to the competition in this regard? And what settings do you use here? (60 fps or 30 fps, white balance/scene mode etc.)

To me the video mode is even more important than the still camera/photo mode, since I shoot a lot of video of my kid, editing all the clips later into a full length movie.

So, can the Xperia z3 be called impressive in this regard. If not, I think it's time for me to (try and) exchange it for another model...

Cheers,

Bart.
[Xperia Z3 General] bergoulle:
Nice car !!!
[Xperia Z3 General] gadjet:
Today on day out

Superior auto all shots, sunny day 5 degrees...
[Xperia Z3 General] kar200:
Auto of course :)
[Xperia Z3 General] bart-videophile:
Best camera phone?

Perhaps this is not the right place for this, but if someone with expert knowledge and experience with many current smartphones could point me to the phone with the best camera performance I'd really appreciate it!

Since, indeed, I've now found out that, while looking perfectly fine on my phone's screen, when viewed in their full size, the 20 mp pics actually look worse than the ones made with my galaxy s2. And since I expect at least a small upgrade, I'm seriously considering exchanging my z3 for another phone.

However, digging into the reviews hasn't been effective in finding the best one for photos/movie recording (this last feature is even more important to me). Some say Note 4, others iPhone 6, some others mention the LG G3 as a winner, and yet another points to the Galaxy s5. Can anyone help me out here (at the very least by scratching a few off that list)? If completely necessary I might even give the Nokia 1020 a try, but I'm not quite ready yet to move to a Windows phone (unless someone can Deasy me).

Thanks to anyone willing to give me some pointers here!

Cheers,

Bart.
[Xperia Z3 General] doministry:
Hmm. I would say the same as to others:

If you get "better" results with S2 than maybe there is something wrong with your photo skills ;)

And what do you mean by "better"? It's a very general term which may mean something different for you and me ;)

Z3 is one of the best cameraphones out there.
[Xperia Z3 General] bart-videophile:
Well thanks for that :)

I would be VERY happy to be proven wrong, believe me. Because other than the camera-issue (which would however be major deal breaker for me), I absolutely love this phone!

I already asked another user here what made him switch back to the Z3 (after having exchanged it first for a Note 4) and in what ways he was using it now that made the camera (results) more capable. So if you have advice of me to get the most out of my camera, I'd be happy to hear about them. (And if you already mentioned them, I'm sorry. But I've 'only' looked at around 30 pages in this thread. ;) )

In any case, with 'better' I mean what I think most of us mean: more detailed, 'true to life' photo's (sidestepping things such as contrast, white balance, color accuracy for a moment). Photo's that don't turn into a blurry, pixelated mess when looked at in full size.

Granted, I have not tried each and every configuration for each situation (I'd probably have to reserve about an hour for a single scene/shot if I'd want to do that ;) ) but I have tried a fair amount of settings and variations to be able to compare and get the best out of a particular shot.

Now, we have all seen the comparisons in this thread between (crops of) Z3 pictures and those of presumably lesser phones (if you compare specs). That prompted me to do some comparisons of my own, looking at full size pictures of my old s2 and the z3 side by side. As I said the 20 mp-shots don't amount to much when zoomed in/looked at in full size (making me wonder why this resolution-option is there in the first place) and the s2-shots. When I scale back the 20 mp photo to 8 mp-proportions it's a bit better than the S2 but not dramatically so.

Furthermore, on the video end, the auto-setting caused some colors to come out very over saturated and slightly skewed. I was filming indoors, with daylight, but my red chair became almost purple and my orange couch almost pink. (I have noticed some of this oversaturation with other videos posted on youtube, btw) I could counter this by selecting "cloudy" (instead of auto WB), but it would seem strange that this is necessary. The videos themselves are alright, I think. (I haven't done quite enough testing yet), but there does seem to be a problem with focussing. And again, I'd hardly call it a major step up from my S2m which one would expect.
[Xperia Z3 General] subhani:
Please provide some samples to compare. I hope you won't mind my saying that I need convincing that it is worse than an S2, which I owned few years ago. I did however feel that the Z3 was worse than my G2 but I realised that Sony images produce 'different' pictures to other devices. That's the only way for me to describe it. Much like the HTC m8, their images are of a 'different' type.
[Xperia Z3 General] doministry:
Well in fact without seeing the shots I cannot really say what's wrong.

As for 20mpx shot - sorry, it just has to be TOTALLY more detailed than any 8mpx shot (from a mobile).

I don't know what to advice atm because it's not one thing.

If you use scenes, use the appriopriate ones to the situation.

I personally use scene modes only in one situation - difficult light with moving objects.

Like party or some theatre shows - where I don't want any blurring.

I use Party or Sports there.

Other than that I use full 20mpx with proper: ISO, Zooming mode and Light metering.

Almost for every case and it really works!

Auto - never. It's actaully bad mode.
[Xperia Z3 General] subhani:
Iphone 6 plus and the Z3. Which is which?

Surely, the shot is in two different places and under very different lighting conditions, but it IS of the same item.
[Xperia Z3 General] bart-videophile:
Oh I understand. I would be skeptical too. And I hope very much I'm doing something wrong. How/where can I best upload my (full) images?

I'm not sure what you mean by different type. So you couldn't actually call them worse? Only worse to your eyes maybe?

---------- Post added at 10:35 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:25 PM ----------

Well if it absolutely must be more detailed then I must be doing something wrong. Now granted, I haven't shot the same scene/at the same time with both phones (I'm working with s2 shots from my sd card that I'm using in my z3), so the results will possibly not be accepted, but I got this one pretty much pixel perfect shot made with my s2 which shows no blurring/pixelating at all while my best shot with the z3 so far, does exhibit softening/pixelation at edges when watched in full. I'll see if I can manage to upload them somehow if you're interested at all. (But I understand if you'd say, come back when you've shot something under optimal/similar conditions. ;) )

As for your modes/scenes, perhaps I should try Party mode for my moving kid (I've tried Sports already).

And what do you mean with the 20 mp zooming mode? I assume you mean the advice is to not zoom in at all (there is no optical zoom, after all, right?). I'm not sure which ISO I should use in what condition. So 'auto' won't pick the best ISO-value here?
[Xperia Z3 General] undercover:
To learn to use manual mode you need to learn basics of photography. Yup, there are technicalities. Here is a very nice article that should get you going and will provide you with basics that will lead onto other things. http://www.exposureguide.com/exposure.htm

One thing to keep in mind with a mobile phone camera, aperture is fixed so the only things you can control are shutter speed and ISO. Shutter speed indirectly as camera sw doesn't provide any control, but you can control it by ISO setting.

Lower ISO = slower shutter speed = longer exposure = good light availability = blur if shaken = not good for fast moving objects

Higher ISO = faster shutter speed = shorter exposure = over light availability = less blur if shaken/objects moving

And more. Best you can do is read up a little bit.

I, personally, can't be arsed and settled on Google Camera that seems to provide best P&S results and has much better naming for files.
[Xperia Z3 General] corallus:
Interestingly I have photos taken by the s2,S3 and Z3 all of the same target taken from the same location.

I'll post them up tomorrow, but it goes without much saying the Z3 is leagues ahead.
[Xperia Z3 General] bart-videophile:
Hi Corallus,

I'd be very interested in seeing those indeed. Sadly, though (based on my own experiences so far and comparisons in this thread [page 13/14 I believe] where the Note 3, the S4, and even the front camera of the S4 show better detail), for me it doesn't go without much saying that the Z3 is leagues ahead. But I'm very happy to hear it!

(At the same time it could mean my camera is faulty, but will have to deal with that later then.)

---------- Post added at 08:44 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:24 AM ----------

Hi undercover,

Thanks for that interesting link! A very good read indeed. I knew about ISO and shutter speed/light availability and the type of results you get with it (i.e. the ferris wheel-example on that site) but did not think much about the blur-factor.

Still, does this also mean that a) I cannot rely on the automatic ISO-mode of the Z3 to take the best picture. (But maybe you would say best picture in this case is relative to what one wants to achieve and not something the Z3 could detect?), and b) that I will simply have to find out with trial and error what the best ISO-value for any given situation will be? I mean, if that's the case, so be it, but that of course doesn't make the Z3 a really user friendly camera-phone (or phone-camera, rather). It kind of seems geared towards professional photographers almost.

Also, I might give Google Camera a try then. So does it make better use of the Z3's hardware and is it able to sidestep the Z3's own image processing software? How come it garners better "P & S"-results? And what does it mean? Using Google Camera, you can simply use automatic mode(s) and GC will do the rest? Also, with Google Camera, would you say the Z3 (camera) lives up to its potential (and is one of the best phonecameras out there)?

Thanks in advance for anything you can tell me.

Cheers,

Bart.
[Xperia Z3 General] undercover:
Bart, I'll get back to you a bit later.

Meanwhile..
[Xperia Z3 General] bart-videophile:
Ok, that's fine. Thanks! Oh and btw, when I said "did not think much about the blur-factor" I meant that I didn't consider this factor (i.e. did not realize its contribution) (so not in the sense that I'm making a value judgement here ;)
[Xperia Z3 General] doministry:
Auto works badly here. I mean it should be good but no - AUTO is NEVER good for everything.

It is very limited in fact.

By zooming I meant something different - I've used the wrong word.

I meant focus modes of course.
[Xperia Z3 General] bart-videophile:
Z3 and s2 pics

Somehow my attachments came out quite small, so I suppose there is no point in looking at them, but here are an s2 and z3 pic, with some crops. Maybe it's enough to get some slight idea of what I'm talking about.

Z3 with 20 mp 4:3, looking terribly blurry and pixelated in the edges of the pic. I didn't even crop the worst part, though, just an important point of interest.

The S2-pic, by contrast, looks almost flawless to my eyes.

Of course, the shooting conditions were very different (which is probably enough to dismiss these pics for all but a few), but I personally found this remarkable.

I'd be happy to try it anew with optimal settings, whatever they will be (ISO/scene type perhaps), but if I'd have to judge it on these pics, I'm ready to return the Z3.
[Xperia Z3 General] undercover:
[/COLOR]

You are right. Z3 camera is not a user friendly camera. It's not a good P&S (poind-and-shoot) camera. For good shots when you have time, you have to learn how camera behaves at different settings. For quick shots, I find Google app acceptable, however, sometimes SA beats it in certain conditions.

Third party apps don't stepside Sony image processing. Well, they do, but only to an extent. Exmor does main processing, camera app just applies final touches.

---------- Post added at 01:34 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:27 PM ----------

Unfair comparison. Very, very different lighting. Take some sort of a complex object, say dressed up soft toy that has different colours, hair (fur) etc. Place it by the window, sideways to the window, and take a pic face on, so window is on the side. Make sure to place both phones in the same spot. Do it with both phones on 8mpx, post here, and then we'll have a look.
[Xperia Z3 General] se1zure31:
I suggest the app called camera fv-5. I have seen much better white balance with it and it gives a lot of manual control options. It's also quite quick for adjusting settings.
[Xperia Z3 General] bart-videophile:
Thanks for the advice. I will try out some of these suggestions...

---------- Post added at 11:39 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:28 PM ----------

Not sure if a lot of people on this thread are interested in or have as much experience with video quality, but since I cannot find much info or discussion about this, perhaps someone here can tell me his views about the video (recording) quality on the Z3, compared to other flagships. How does the Z3 fare in this regard? (I'm talking about stuff like detail, color accuracy, sharpness, and smoothness of motion here)

Sorry to go a bit OT here but this aspect is probably even more important to me than the photo camera quality. And if it turns out pictures are merely decent but video is top of its class this would be a (potential) compromise I'm willing to take.
[Xperia Z3 General] Stixxbixby:
Party Mode with no light other than the candles. No post editing.
[Xperia Z3 General] bart-videophile:
One more thing/question before I'll leave it be:

I hate to bring up the elephant in the room but how should we/I judge the comparisons by chefproll (on page 13 I believe) where the S4 consistently shows better detail, even with its front cam! Can we dismiss these results? Are they important at all? (And if not, why not?)

So sorry for this barrage of posts. I will leave you guys alone now. Thanks for your thoughts and attention.