yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Xperia Z3 General] Blaalad12:
Iam convinced alot of us must have either faulty cameras or something because i certainly feel as though the camera on mine is average at best! Alot of shots are lacking detail and i should not be missing my htc one camera when that was the one gripe everyone had about the htc one so this camera should surely be better then a htc one never mind htc one m8! Also, some of the pictures posted here are poor in my opinion whilst others look ALOT better so theres no consistency! Either there is something wrong with some handsets or the good pictures are a result of fiddling with the settings to produce better results because ill say it again and this is just my opinion but the difference between some pics being posted is night and day! Does anyone else agree?
[Xperia Z3 General] subhani:
I agree [MENTION=6049908]Blaalad12[/MENTION]

BTW, I've just done a side by side comparison with my brother's iP6 in low light. Turned the room light off but kept door open for light from the passage. The Z3 pwnd the iPhone. My brother is a hardcore apple fan. And he admitted the z3 was better. The actual detail and image processing was bad on both but the z3 was was easily more visible.

Then my bro wanted to check if the flash would help his iPhone and I took one with flash too. Again he was very surprised that the Z3 took the cake by a large margin on that one too.

I guess the dissapointment is the lack of detail in daylight pics, motion blur and the generally slow capture speed. Here the iPhone shines.
[Xperia Z3 General] plsdunbiteme:
Couldn't agree more. Re your comparison, it's it situations like these (dark scene with a small inlet of light) where the Z3 shines. I am often amazed by how it can brighten a dark scene without using flash to create a usable photo as long as you don't zoom in. Even my other phone the LG G3 which is also very good in low light can't brighten the scene to that extent.

In most other scenarios, the Sony does a good job but what I noticed it's pics don't resolve detail as well as other flagships and the images are a bit soft, especially when viewed on my computer monitor.
[Xperia Z3 General] vidge1111:
could be due some having an unlocked BL?
[Xperia Z3 General] Zanr Zij:
There are something to talk about the Verge:

- No original files

- Those are mixed of Z3 and Z3c pics
[Xperia Z3 General] subhani:
I took this picture earlier this morning.

Click this link to follow link to the raw image http://tinypic.com/r/2a7izaf/8

Intelligent Auto Mode in the camera app.
[Xperia Z3 General] jonmorris:
I'm yet to do any proper comparisons with my Z2 and Z3, but I did take a lot of photos yesterday in London on a VERY bright and sunny day - and when looking back last night, I realised that when viewed at 100% they looked rather fuzzy.

Now, on the Z2 with the later camera apps, photos were a lot sharper. You could perhaps argue to sharp at times, but on landscape photos it resulted in fine detail on tree branches, leaves etc. Yet on the Z3 things seem a bit fuzzy, almost as if things have gone back to the early Z1 and Z2 camera apps.

I did take most photos in auto mode, because on the Z2 the auto mode actually turned into a mode you could use for almost all photos. Now it seems you might have to go back to manual shooting.

Why does Sony keep tweaking things so much?!

As I said, I need to do more comparison shots to be able to do a comparison that looks at file compression and chosen settings in auto, but while the images still look good - I think they could be better.
[Xperia Z3 General] civmilad:
I want to buy a z3.please take pictures fro your books for example math book.I need it too
[Xperia Z3 General] radicans:
Hopefully! But there are two question marks as I see it.

First, even though the Android API lets us ask for RAW photo, the Sony camera driver has to allow it to be delivered. Or does it? I have not yet found an answer to this. The funny thing is that in the Android 4.4 API you can also ask for a RAW image.

http://developer.android.com/refere...ack, android.hardware.Camera.PictureCallback)

I'm not sure what the difference is to Android L/5.0, but I'm guessing the Android 4.4 raw isn't actually RAW format, but just an unfortunate naming of the image buffer before it gets jpeg compressed.

Second, lets hope that the sensor is actually ok. Even though Sony delivers sensors to many other phones, which produce great images, I think the Z3 is the only camera with this particular sensor (Exmor RS). There could in principle be some on chip processing happening before it sends off the RAW file. Although I find that rather unlikely, as I've never heard of Bayer pattern image processing!

Now this is super interesting! I'm not that knowledgeable when it comes to rooting and custom roms, firmware etc. Does the new rom mean a custom camera driver module? Any camera driver that is not Sonys own would likely not use Sonys hardware processing (BIONZ).
[Xperia Z3 General] andybg40:
There may be hope if Sony get their heads around the software and processing algo's...

http://www.androidheadlines.com/2014/10/meizu-mx4-camera-samples-impressions.html
[Xperia Z3 General] radicans:
Thanks for the link, good find!

Don't want to be a killjoy, but those photos look terrible IMO if you look close up at the 20MP ones. I think they could benefit greatly from DIS, but there is still lots of odd processing artifacts, like cross hatching (but not as bad as Z3) and sharpening halos. The details are muddy/absent, and it also has very strong purple fringing/blooming. Based on those photos, I'd take the Z3 any day of the week over the MX4!

But does this mean the Z3 sensor is particularly poor? In that case, no RAW image ever will help. But I guess we would need more information on the camera settings for the photos, and the processing/jpg compression for that camera app before we can say anything.

Well, that's my take anyway. Would like to hear someone elses input.
[Xperia Z3 General] One Twelve:
RAW helps in color correction, boosting dynamic range and allows more tweaks in post. To an extent you can already do this with JPG but you are more limited.

If you're not going to do any post then RAW is superflous. Its no panacea. as JPG does a pretty good approximation. But if you have photoshop skills then images can be improved considerably if you put in the work. The image processing that happens in the firmware i don't think is going to go away. You will be better able t mask some of it.

Didn't they fix the image compression thing later on, i recall Z1 put out 4MB 20MP images whereas this was nearly double from Z2 onwards.

I suppose you mean in terms of auto. I can believe the S3 got it right more often than the Z1. IF you knew how to fix it it was a non issue.

But Z1 did improve over Z with the larger BSI sensor. So many people bang the 20MP but it resulted in a 15 point jump on DxO photo rankings. Very signficant when the jump is usually 5 points with each generation and getting less with time.

focal is taking photos that the Z1 can do itself with manual settings. Z1's auto had a tendency to boost ISO when it wasn't required.
[Xperia Z3 General] ktek:
For average user RAW might be impractical, yeah, but it doesn't necessary need skills to benefit from shooting RAW. Only thing firmware could do is compress the file. Anything else and the file wouldn't be RAW anymore, so we should be able to bypass Sony's own processing completely. If you're after highly saturated colors, noise reduction and sharpening JPG could be all you need.
[Xperia Z3 General] ElArZ:
Check this camera review article: www[dot]gizmodo[dot]co.uk/2014/10/testmodo-challenge-3-three-readers-put-the-sony-xperia-z3s-camera-to-the-test/

It is a sponsored article but contains some beautiful shots nonetheless.
[Xperia Z3 General] One Twelve:
yep, this is theory. Image comes unprocessed but this means you require software then to work with it after. Just doing a straight compress yourself i think won't be enough. What they do behind the scenes is a big secret. Secret recipes. Some people hate this and would like it gone.

The problem is even if L allows raw it requires sony to implement that facilty at a lower level. How long will that take. They don't even offer manual shutter controls yet.

Another point is how many bits per channel will the raw allow. Right now we have 8 bit x rgb for 24 bit colour. Cameras have 10,11,12 and even 14 bit colour so gamut is much wider.
[Xperia Z3 General] iBuzman:
more ? less [emoji404]
[Xperia Z3 General] jonmorris:
Macro shots, especially in good light, always look good.

Reminds me of when people selling televisions always had Monsters Inc running on them!!
[Xperia Z3 General] Silverdace:
Well i've bitten the bullet and ordered a Z3 anyway. The rest of the phone seems outstanding. The alternative was an S5 but I prefer LCD and can't stand the styling on that thing.

I'm just really disappointed Sony seems to have persisted with these problems between Z1-Z3. They should have sorted it out by now or switched to a more reliable sensor.

My hope is Android L will give us access to RAW output from the sensor and a 3rd party developer will develop a camera app that will do better conversion to JPEG than Sony. Assuming of course that there's not something fundamentally flawed in the sensor.
[Xperia Z3 General] helper85:
Some time ago I wrote regarding my Z3´s pictures that the left side (especially the left top corner) of the pictures is blurry when taking pictures of trees, grass etc. I specify that did not happen in macro, but in ordinary mode (i.e taking pictures from a distance). Also there were no effect of what so ever, whether the pictures were taken in Superior Auto or in Manual Mode, in Manual Mode 20 Mpix or 8 Mpix. Although some xda members said there is no point of taking my Z3 to repair, I still did that. And what happened?!

Actually I took my phone to repair twice. The first time all they did was a clean software re-install (daa....I told to the front-line staff that I already did the software repair through PC Companion, but nothing changed in the quality of the pictures). After receiving my phone from the "repair", I walked out of the repair office, took 2 photos, walked back in and showed the front-line staff that the problem still existed. Then my phone was taken in for the second time. During the second repair they changed MY FAULTY CAMERA. And guess what - do I still have the problem (i.e blurry left top corner of the pictures)? Of course NOOOOT :)

As I have noticed my described problem with other people´s pictures as well, I decided to share my knowledge and strongly recommend to repair and let the camera unit to be replaced. From the above it can be concluded that it is not a software related problem, but a hardware related.

And that is not all!!!!! In addition regarding the rattling noise. I also had the same sound coming from the back side of the phone somewhere near the camera. The rattling noise became evident when shaking the phone or tapping on the back cover. Now, after replacing the camera, the rattle is gone :)
[Xperia Z3 General] hanime:
THIS RIGHT HERE hit home. Macros are perfect on my GF's white Z3, but landscape photos look a bit watercolored down. Regarding your fix to your camera hardware, good for you sir! :) I think your unit was defective hardware-wise from the start because it was related to the rattling sound you mentioned. Do you have photos taken with the defective camera vs. current? Thanks!
[Xperia Z3 General] helper85:
Today I did not managed to go and take a picture from the exact spot, which illustrated the left top corner softness/blurryness the best. Hence, at the moment I only have the picture of defective camera unit and some other samples of working camera unit. So probably on Monday I have comparable pictures.
[Xperia Z3 General] hanime:
Sure, any photos are greatly appreciated.
[Xperia Z3 General] One Twelve:
How do you know they changed the camera ?
[Xperia Z3 General] jayr04:
20mp manual

auto. was holding it so it came out a bit blurry
[Xperia Z3 General] radicans:
Some random photos, plain and simple. Have some observations to share, but saving that for a later post.
[Xperia Z3 General] One Twelve:
Lets find out if sony has exposed the raw interfaces for Z3.

Get

cinedroid

from the playstore.

Run it and then close it.

Look in the cinedroid folder for a file called camera.parameters.txt

post it here anyone.
[Xperia Z3 General] jhun80:
I thought this is supposed to be a picture posting only. coz I found so many rat

[IMG="j.t"]https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/320xq90/r/540/rT3REE.jpg[/IMG]
[Xperia Z3 General] radicans:
I think this might answer the question

http://xdaforums.com/showpost.php?p=56242489&postcount=1

Hopefully they'll implement it for Android 5.0. Or, there is the possibility that the RAW functionality in the new API bypasses the Sony implementation. But I don't know enough about the low level functionality to even begin to speculate about that. And I haven't found any answer on the web either. Time will tell.
[Xperia Z3 General] mattlgroff:
Post-Wildfire
[Xperia Z3 General] One Twelve:
If you only saw jpeg then yes it does :(

Would not lose hope though. Just because it isn't exposed does not mean it isn't possible.

No good answer here is there.

if ios8 could do it to ip5 then one could speculate the same could occur with L.
[Xperia Z3 General] Slash8915:
I'm sort of on the fence about this. I'm bored with my G3, but it actually has a nice camera. I want the Z3, but the camera seems to be lacking as of now.
[Xperia Z3 General] One Twelve:
Could we have the originals for these on dropbox ?

D presumably is done with SA.
[Xperia Z3 General] juanmaasecas:
Great work! Thank you so much!

It's the same conclusion I got a few months ago when comparing pictures with my friend's Xperia Z2. I couldn't see any benefit in shooting at 20 mpx... Could you repeat the test shooting at a landscape? I think it's way more difficult to see the differences in an almost "macro" shot like yours...
[Xperia Z3 General] radicans:
A (20MP) and C (8MP) are the original photos, and the only photos taken, the rest are derived from them. Image D is the photo A scaled down to 8MP, done by me in a image manipulation program. I should probably have emphasized that. A and C are both shot in manual mode.

The comparison image in dropbox is saved losslessly, so there is no difference to the "original originals" :) So unless you want the entire uncropped photo, there is no reason to upload more photos. Or if you want the exif data, which I'll upload soon anyway.
[Xperia Z3 General] One Twelve:
Uncropped photos for A & C then with exifs intact. This way anybody can reproduce what you have done and review your conclusions.
[Xperia Z3 General] radicans:
post updated.

---------- Post added at 11:52 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:48 PM ----------

Yeah, keen to see what happens with trees and nature shots, think I have a few shots already waiting for analysis.

However, you can easily do the scale down then up again on your own. Only requires one photo. If you don't have an image manipulation program, you can download GIMP, it's free and for all platforms!
[Xperia Z3 General] hanime:
This thread needs more landscape photos in high resolution. The Z3 does an outstanding job at macro shots, but landscape shots where its weakness lies.
[Xperia Z3 General] radicans:
It's just too depressing to look at.. But here you go. Looks alright when it's way scaled down in the browser...

but looking closer, we again have this cross hatch over processed mess:

I literally had to scale down the photo to 2MP to make that tree section look natural :(
[Xperia Z3 General] jonmorris:
Here are some (again, apologies that they're hosted by Tapatalk as I'm on my phone while on holiday)
[Xperia Z3 General] radicans:
In Stockholm I see :) My home town, although I don't live there anymore.
[Xperia Z3 General] hanime:
That's the thing. The cross hatch over processing is more noticeable on more complicated areas such as tree leaves, fog, or rough lines. That's why landscape photos is where the software needs improvement. I think Sony can improve this--it just matter if they are listening to the complaints.
[Xperia Z3 General] jayr04:
Auto
[Xperia Z3 General] admad:
What did you expect? The tree is very far, You can't get much detail of it from this distance...

As for the comparison 8MP vs 20MP, can you try doing that in landscapre or objects around 5m away? On macro shot the details are usually very good on each camera, it's the far objects that can determine the quality of sensor ;)
[Xperia Z3 General] radicans:
Well, here's an unnecessarily long post about what I expect :) I expect the camera to produce something on par with its competition. You can definitely get more detail than that, at that distance. Here are some earlier comparisons I've posted

http://xdaforums.com/z3/general/camera-tests-z3-post-pics-t2887635/page13 (comparison with Samsung galaxy note 3.)

And compared with iPhone5s (make sure you open in a new view so you can see the image 1:1):

As you can see, the iPhone has more detail in its photo, even though it's only 8MP, as compared with Z3's 20MP! Neither does the iPhone5 photo have the processing artifacts. I also scaled down the Z3 to 8MP for another point of view. The iPhone5 photo looks like a photo. The Z3 photo looks like a really bad jpeg compression (even though it isn't. I think the stock camera app is set at jpeg 85%). I would say the Z3 photo has about 3-5MP worth of actual information it the photo.

If you don't trust me, look at any comparison on the web. Here, for example:

http://fortheloveoftech.com/2014/10/24/sony-xperia-z3-vs-nokia-lumia-1020-the-gold-standard-test/

I admit it's hard to beat the lumia 1020 overall, but my point is, if you look closely on any Z3 photos with trees and leaves in them, you can see the same thing as in my photos: processing artifacts which destroys the fine detail. I have really tried with many photos to get a good shot of trees, but they always come out the same, regardless of settings.

I'll see what I can do :)
[Xperia Z3 General] Morpheus NS:
To be honest, I don't know what are you guys talking about. Details, details, details... Even looking at this latest example posted by [MENTION=6079771]radicans[/MENTION], I like photos taken wit Z3 more than ones taken with iPhone 6, they look sharper and colors look more natural. Yes, they lack certain details, but I am certainly never going to look at every leaf on the tree to see if there is a fly resting on it. If the tree looks good, I don't care how pixel-perfect the leaves are.
[Xperia Z3 General] itsjustJOH:
God I thought I was the only one who noticed that in photos with green foliage or anything that is collectively green.
[Xperia Z3 General] dedei:
Thank god there aren't a lot of trees in my city
[Xperia Z3 General] radicans:
I personally think that these artifacts show even when not zooming in. The overall quality takes a hit, in my opinion.

But to each their own, we all like different styles. I used to work with film production, so I'm probably pickier than most. I'm happy for those who are happy with the camera and I'm not saying you should bother just because I'm complaining. I'm just pointing out what I consider issues, so that those who do care can decide what to do (e.g. buy the phone or not). I wish I had this info earlier, in that case I would never have bought the Z3.
[Xperia Z3 General] hanime:
I am not a photographer or in any film production of any sort, and I can see what radicans see. It's the comparison with the competitors that makes a difference to me. Why do others have better photos given lesser hardware? We can clearly see Sony is doing something different to their software.
[Xperia Z3 General] jayr04:
You will never be happy comparing something you own with something else. Just be happy or return it.
[Xperia Z3 General] radicans:
I would be happy if I was on the other side of this particular comparison :) but unfortunately, once the seal is broken on the box the phone comes in, you can no longer return it. Pretty crap return policy.

Oh well, I'll take comfort in that the rest of the phone is pretty awesome!
[Xperia Z3 General] Mity85:
Radicans - I'm not a tech/imaging expert so I'm getting lost in this thread. So, is this lack of detail/aforementioned watercoloring (especially of trees), a hardware issue or a software issue that Lollipop will fix?

I currently have an iPhone 5 (not even 5s) and my pics were coming out better, especially when taking pics of the trees in my backyard. Thus, I returned my Z3. Everything else was great, the UI, microSD support. But I couldn't get over spending $650 for a phone that couldn't take better pics than my $100 iP5. If this camera issue is resolved, I would love to jump back in.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/paulmon...update-could-improve-every-smartphone-camera/
[Xperia Z3 General] vyurdin:
spider

Here's one of my photo i took with wide/macro accessory from photojojo website. (cant post link)
[Xperia Z3 General] iBuzman:
[emoji3]
[Xperia Z3 General] jayr04:
20MP no edit
[Xperia Z3 General] Chefproll:
Exactly that is the problem.

If you buy a car with 207 HP power, but it just delivers 40 to 50 HP, you wouldn't be happy with that.

Even if other people argue they don't need the full power.

You paid for 207 HP, not for 40 to 50.
[Xperia Z3 General] itsjustJOH:
A 20 MP camera only ON PAR, subpar even, with an 8 MP camera.
[Xperia Z3 General] cadboncopyvw:
Looks a lot less windy than this recent Z3 Superior Auto sea snap!
[Xperia Z3 General] radicans:
Hard to tell at this point. Technically the Z3 has a bigger sensor than the competition, so the potential for great quality is there! And there is the fact that Sony delivers sensors to most of the competition, which produce great photos. So this hints that the issues are in Sonys proprietary image processing algorithms. On the other hand, there is one other non-Sony camera out there that uses the exact same sensor, and the image quality from that camera is very poor in my opinion, worse than the Z3. This hints that the sensor itself is poor, but I find that unlikely since Sonys previous sensors are of such great quality.

With Android 5.0 we get RAW support, if the phone manufacturer decides to implement it. IF Sony implements this, we also need an app that utilizes this. But hopefully Sony will build the RAW option into its stock app. And then you need to process the RAW files individually in another software to get the most out of them. The best outcome though is if Sony decides to fix their image processing software!

To make a long story short, we just have to wait and see. By February, it should be released for Sonys Z line.
[Xperia Z3 General] subhani:
Great decision. There really isn't a better choice out there for Android users other than the Z3.
[Xperia Z3 General] Silverdace:
Got the z3 today yay

Google camera on auto

Stock camera on auto
[Xperia Z3 General] Chefproll:
Just look at the red bush at the lower left side of the picture. Even with the dwarf resolution chosen for posting the pics, that red slurry is just too obvious. :/

---------- Post added at 11:20 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:17 AM ----------

I've got a Z3 with a crack in the front glass... I also bought a Note 4. After playing a bit with the Note and it's camera, I still did not send the Z3 back for repair; and maybe I won't do that at all. Just because I am quite sure I'll never use it again.

Sorry; this of course is not what you all wish to read; but that's the naked truth.
[Xperia Z3 General] Silverdace:
Yes indeed. Though you can make out the leaves on the full res Google camera version. I wonder if the algorithm gets confused by fine detail and thinks it's noise? That's why leaves in particular turn out so bad.
[Xperia Z3 General] subhani:
You should get the Z3 on the good looks alone LOL! Did i mention better battery, smoother performance and a more palatable size? The camera is good but it isn't no pureview or isocell beater that's all.