yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Xperia Z3 General] radicans:
Hmm, I think it might have a bigger impact. If you look at the solar spectrum, the infrared, beginning at (~700nm and above), is a relatively large part of the total light. But then again, it also depends on the sensor sensitivity in these wavelengths.

I wonder if this is behind the photos looking "cold" or have a magenta tint. The reds in daylight almost always have a bit of blue in them.

"Real" cameras have IR blocking filters. That's why it didn't show up in the Fuji shot. Would be interesting to find a IR blocking filter and hold it in front of the camera lens to see the difference.
[Xperia Z3 General] sefelizrc:
I used the FV5 app to take those pictures, it has an option tu select color channels: RGB or Luminance (Black&White)

I think there ir more definition using the luminance mode, because of the problems pointed about the blur in some channels.
[Xperia Z3 General] One Twelve:
What do you make of this

article

?

What i can see is strong saturation can cause problems so have to watch out for it with luminance. And you get more saturation of colours in soft light which is best for colour. It would seem you want strong light ie bad for colour to reduce saturation. So its a different game with B&W to get best exposure. It is difficult to turn a good colour photo into a good bW one because the conditions for best with either are different. Decide which you want (colour or bw) and then choose the best conditions to suit it.

Otherwise the green channel will approximate the closest to luminance. So you will have to compare shots from green channel with luminosity depending on the scene to know which is best to use.
[Xperia Z3 General] sefelizrc:
Ok, I'll try to compare green channel with luminance on next shot. Thank for that article, I understand more things now ;)

Also Fv5 app can make PNG pictures, I'll try if it takes better shots with that format
[Xperia Z3 General] subhani:
In the following order

Sony manual 20

Sony SA

Sony manual 8 high ISO

Better Cam DRO enabled

Better Can night portrait

I prefer the manual 20mp even though it is just a tad bit darker yet sharper. What do you guys I think?

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/tx80eo9bjsntsq6/AAB5kTY2CcgmSiPNx_FlE5jSa?dl=0

Hit THANKS if I helped, cheers! Sent using a Z3 via Tapatalk.
[Xperia Z3 General] One Twelve:
They look nice but i wonder whether HDR can help in this kind of scene.

---------- Post added at 08:33 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:27 AM ----------

monochrome can be useful for fixing exposure. See this

video

Saw some other videos where they were converting colour shots into monochrome in photoshop by tweaking the colour channels, bit of a learning curve.

Wait for RAW with lollipop. Be prepared to work it in post though.
[Xperia Z3 General] admad:
I think you should do Sony manual 8 night scene, this would be the best shot, providing you had tripod for these shots.
[Xperia Z3 General] undercover:
Try manual 8, steady shot. Haven't had much time to experiment but seems quite good, not over processing.
[Xperia Z3 General] undercover:
https://mega.co.nz/#F!7Nc1FKyJ!-51W2wqZrZDRr4BNaQ1AHw
[Xperia Z3 General] undercover:
Full size in Mega folder
[Xperia Z3 General] Nplus1:
Well, first of all, are you actually using any of the camera's low light capabilities while at 20MP? I'm trying to capture a somewhat similar image (night shot of skyscrapers) but I'm not very happy with the results, especially comparing to some of the samples I've seen.

So I'm going to ask here the same question I've asked on the Z3C topic (I have a Z3C): how do you actually use Manual Mode? Should you stick to 8MP and use the scenes or should you set the resolution to 20MP and just try to tweak the remaining settings (image stabilization, HDR, exposure, white balance)?

Thanks!
[Xperia Z3 General] dgattenb:
Manual mode:eek: I went to my daughters friends party ,4 year olds so not fun, I tried my camera in auto mode , the picture came out bright and clear. The problem was there was lasers and smoke etc , and not of that came out .I then went into high iso and party mode . and the below came out! Fab , just what it was like ... So far the camera is good, but as ever you need to fiddle to get the picture you need . if you want auto, then you get what the phone wants, not want you want.
[Xperia Z3 General] undercover:
FTX Carnage Brushless Slo-mo: http://youtu.be/e4pwAptQsNs
[Xperia Z3 General] doministry:
From my Z2 experience: 20,7mpx Manual mode plus just try to tweak the remaining settings (image stabilization, HDR, exposure, white balance) as you said.

According to the circumstances...

For instance, I found that in most night shots the best working ISO is 200. Plus Auto White Balance...
[Xperia Z3 General] CentaXx:
I don't mean to offend you but i think this picture is just horrible. It's blurry everywhere and where the focus is set - by the end of the escalator -, the picture is actually grainy. Not to mention the individual stairs that the camera can't reproduce accordingly. I even downloaded the picture to check whether this was just to the decreased resolution of the picture, but it isn't..

Some of the pictures of this thread show me why some users seem to be disappointed with the camera. There are some great shots (you did some of them), but most of them don't look like what i expected of it. Also the "party" picture above, it just doesn't look good. What also stunned me were the advertised high iso modes and the ability to make clouds in the darkness look like a mess. Check this post for what i mean: http://xdaforums.com/z3/general/camera-tests-z3-post-pics-t2887635/post57238209

I have never seen a phone before with such a bad representation of a night scene, that overexposes the grainy clouds as much as the Z3 seems to do it. I am very curious to try the camera out myself, but my expectations are very limited now. However, for me it will be an improvement over my One M7 that can't take images in the dark anymore due to the purple tint images and the separated camera button.. I will definitely post pictures here!
[Xperia Z3 General] dtroup64:
Really? Never? You ever use a droid x? How about my Note 2? I could give you a few examples if you wish! :)
[Xperia Z3 General] undercover:
Ha ha, none taken. Just to repeat myself, I'm just point-and-shooting. People can make their own decisions on the pictures. I'm not taking pictures to show how good they are, I'm taking them to show what Sony makes out of the pictures. I'd like to think I know a thing or two about pictures www.progressionist.deviantart.com (not claiming pics in the link are anywhere near professional)

So far, my conclusion stands. Great potential, poor execution from Sony. I think camera is really missing OIS.
[Xperia Z3 General] Nplus1:
Well most of the phones can't actually shoot in low light (with or without noise) so of course you don't get to see noise in the clouds since the photo it all black! :laugh:
[Xperia Z3 General] subhani:
You need to become familiar with what each strength and weakness is in the different modes.

In manual 8, you can get much better 'illumination' or exposure, but reduced detail and a more artificial impression overall.

With manual 20, you get more detail but it is much darker also, compromising the overall visibility of the scene.

I use manual 8 high sensitivity mode for the best illumination of a very dark scene and manual 20 for maximum detail in the less darker scenes.

Hit THANKS if I helped, cheers! Sent using a Z3 via Tapatalk.
[Xperia Z3 General] brynte5:
i'm probably getting the z3 on thursday, so i just wanted to ask something i've been curious about for some time now, regarding these specific pix.

they are very nice pix imho and the sharpness and clarity is amazing to me, but when i click on one of them, for example the pic with the stairs, it takes a few seconds for it to load, so what i want to ask about and i find very strange, is that when the pic has finished loading, the quality of the pic is clearly decreased.

in fact i can see it with my own eyes, how it turns from totally awesome quality, to just good quality, as a flick of a switch.

i still think they are great pix, but there is no doubt, that the quality gets much worse, after they are finished loading.

is this because of some limitation in the imgur site, or what?

why is this happening?
[Xperia Z3 General] Memnoch30:
If you mean when the picture changes from the auto-fit format so it fits in the window to the full size image then it is because everything looks better zoomed out. When you see it full size (ie. you have to scroll to see different parts of the image because of how big it is) you are seeing the real picture. That is what most people's complaints are about here that it is not getting as much detail as other cameras and it loses image quality. Most people believe it is Sony's processing so when Lollipop comes around, if you use a camera app that supports RAW you should be able to get great quality pics.
[Xperia Z3 General] juanmaasecas:
I needed the money, so I've just changed mi iPhone 5s for a Xperia Z2 + Smartband + 150€ (such a great deal IMO).

Here you are some low light pics I took yesterday (Xperia Z 2, but i post them here cause my previous chats in here...)
[Xperia Z3 General] sefelizrc:
I think this happens with all kind of pictures, for example...

I have this picture made with a Nikon D5000, not the best camera and I´m not the best photographer but you can do the same test:

The Nikon has "only" 12Mpx and the Sony 20Mpx, so when yo push the full size button, is not the same and obviously the Nikon has more definition, but the point is that you can see the same "blur effect" when you zoom in the bottom of the picture where the grass

Z3

http://someimage.com/oPuMftD

Nikon D5000

http://someimage.com/zbMihcc
[Xperia Z3 General] Memnoch30:
Yeah, the complaint isn't that it should be perfect but that there should be way more detail considering the pixel count and that other 8MP phones get more detail currently than the Z3. But it is normal for it to get blurry or fuzzy, it's just doing that more than expected.
[Xperia Z3 General] sefelizrc:
Maybe that´s right... But I think its a thing about software and also about the lenses. I hope this would be solved with 5.0 an RAW (Im doing tests with FV5 app and PNG format, the closest thing to that I think)
[Xperia Z3 General] Nplus1:
Thank you for the hints!

Is it just me or is there no noticeable difference between EV +2 end EV -2 at ISO 400 in 20MP mode?
[Xperia Z3 General] brynte5:
no, that´s not what i mean.

i just click on the link and don't touch anything else, so i don't see it in full size.

the image unveils like a curtain, while it loads up and during that time, the image looks absolutely fantastic and even when the whole image i revealed it takes maybe a second before that "flick of a switch" happens and the quality of the image is clearly worse than before.

less sharp and less detail.

i just think it's strange and a shame that the image doesn't stay at that awesome quality, it obviously is capable of, since i see it, right before it changes.

my thinking about the reason for this, is what you describe and that maybe what shows first is the raw quality of the image and than, as it finishes up loading, the sony processing filter applies and makes the quality worse...?

yeah, the same mystery thing happens with those images, so i guess that kind of rules out my theory about the sony post processing, having something to do with this...

i'm not viewing in full size though.

just the size that pops up automatically.

ok, which 8 mp phones do you think have better cameras than the z3?

i'm asking because i have until thursday to decide which phone to get and even though i'll probably get the z3, i'm still interested in the competition;)

yeah, let's hope for that.

i'm hoping to see some examples of those tests asap;)
[Xperia Z3 General] sefelizrc:
You can try de download button on the right up corner, then you can see it the way it really is on your screen, sometimes webbrowsers have some problems with codecs or whatever and can make that strange things you say
[Xperia Z3 General] Haminjuri:
Thanks

Nice pics
[Xperia Z3 General] radicans:
With the PNG format you avoid the jpeg compression, but you will still get the sony processing. I don't think the jpeg compression is the culprit here, though. But please upload a comparison, if you don't mind!

On the topic of RAW, this is a whole different thing than just saving in an uncompressed format. I've been meaning to do a little write-up, since many people talk about it, but less people seems to know more precisely what it is, other than "it's better" :)

(I'm going to skip the whole Bayer pattern and demosaic process here)

A normal image which we look at on the monitor/phone/some display, has only 256 intensity values/levels (8-bit) in each color channel (0 to 255). So when you overexpose and blow out the highlights, what has happened is that the intensity would like to be above 255 on the scale, but anything above gets clipped to 255. So when you try to adjust the brightness afterwards, all you get back is constant grey instead of actual detail.

Now, with RAW, the intensity values are NOT limited to the 0 to 255 range. It can store the values with as much as 14-bits of data, compared to 8 bits in a saved image. That is not simply ~2 times better, it is 64 times better in terms of how much data it can carry!! That means some 16000 intensity values instead of 256. Although my guess is that mobile sensors only have 12 bits, but that's still 16 times more data!

With RAW, then, we have more information than we can display on our monitors, or than we can save in a file. When converting to a normal image, we thus have to choose a partial range of the entire RAW range (pick 256 values from many thousands), and information gets lost. But if we choose to do our image processing (as in color and brightness tweaking) with the RAW data directly, all your processing is done with the original 12 or 14-bit data (technically I think you convert to 32-bit first). Apart from just getting the highlights and/or shadow information back, you can do lots more color tweaking without getting banding and other loss of data artifacts. In contrast, with an 8-bit image you can only really do a small amount of tweaking before you actually start to lose what already little information there is in the photo.

When you are done, you convert to the standard 256 value per channel photo and save. Or you can keep the modified RAW file I guess.

Well, there is a quick explanation anyway. I'm super tired and it's late so I'm sorry if it was only confusing :p
[Xperia Z3 General] One Twelve:
Taken with a shutter of 1/32 which isn't fast enough. To get it sharper means using a faster shutter. But if the light isn't enough it will come out underexposed. Could be boosted in post by 1 f-stop but to get that right would require a RAW file, much more data to play with.

Next focus seems to be set quite far away so closer objects will be out of focus. to get everything means hyperfocal, which from earlier discussions should be set at just over 2m away for everything to be clear. The slow shutter is the biggest culprit of the two.

ISO is also very low ISO 50 + 1/3+, nice image quality if the light is enough. An ISO 200 or even ISO 400 would have been better. Action scene mode.

Don't use the hardware button, someone posted comparison shots with the one and the Z3 and the one almost always got it sharper, Now you know why htc, samsung & apple don't have those convenient shutter buttons. Its nice to have just saying use it sparingly.

Lower light, moving subjects makes it harder.

Those kinds of scenes are a matter of getting exposure right. Toning down the haze means losing shadows, what is the right balance. use bracketing, three shots with varying exposures then blend in post. Better results.

Know what, give the owners here some more time and the pictures will automatically become better :)

---------- Post added at 03:25 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:51 AM ----------

Here is a little

something

to whet peole's appetitie of things to come. Read the comments on the side as they're quite informative.

Remember the key is to use a FULLY DNG compatible program when processing otherwise you will miss out. Unfortunately this means a lot of open source editors are not going to qualify.

As far as FV5 and RAW is concerened, its already available but only for the nexus 5 so the developer will probably support more phones in time. What would be good is more manual shutter speed support, those 'scene' modes are enough to drive people nuts. This is where sony gets to play ball or not. if not then have to wait for Z4 which i'm sure will have it and wait for people to port it to the Z3 all the way down to the Z.

---------- Post added at 03:45 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:25 AM ----------

When things are in the digital domain we do things we could not have done otherwise.

When you blow up an image, imagine what size that image would be if printed out, then consider how close you are to that image and ask yourself if this was up on a wall would you be looking at it as close.

---------- Post added at 04:00 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:45 AM ----------

The first underline has been getting traction. Way more is vague, more ? how much more. Linear ? no, i think diffraction limits things once you get past 12MP. So why more MP's, is it just marketing ? There is a little improvement but not as much as people expect.

But that second one is based on what ? which other 8MP phones do better than the Z3.
[Xperia Z3 General] Memnoch30:
My Nexus 5 and Lumia 925 both retain way more detail than the Z3. Let me see if there are any test shots where my kids aren't in and I'll upload them. If not maybe I'll crop them out but I also don't want people saying I somehow manipulated the shots or whatever.

---------- Post added at 05:23 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:56 PM ----------

I'm on mobile but there was a guy earlier who posted some comparisons with the Note 4 and an old Galaxy S front facing camera.
[Xperia Z3 General] Memnoch30:
It was the S4's front facing camera.
[Xperia Z3 General] hanime:
On the second pic, is that Z3 at actual 20.7MP? Looks similar to the 2MP of the S4.
[Xperia Z3 General] Memnoch30:
Yup that's the point. Sony's software processing is destroying details.
[Xperia Z3 General] One Twelve:
Post originals with exifs intact. Better to avoid crops.

Ensure that ISO's are similar. shot angles, lighting etc. Lower ISO will have more details and this is usually where people start to see differences. Without exif data there is no way to confirm and is why its required in any comparison.

iphone 6+ is a case in point, always gets low ISO shots which phones without OIS will not produce in auto. But its possible to get very close with scene modes or manual.
[Xperia Z3 General] dtroup64:
It is, but to be fair, that's the very far edge of the picture cropped.
[Xperia Z3 General] Memnoch30:
I'm not going to ensure ISOs are similar and all that. The shots were all taken in auto. By the time I set up a shot my kids are off doing something else. If I'm setting up a shot I might as well go grab my DSLR and my lights.

Like I said, let me see if I can find something without my kids since that's most of what I took. But the Z3 was crushing details like eyebrows constantly. Some areas got the watercolor effect that was mentioned before too.

---------- Post added at 07:37 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:36 AM ----------

The whole point of having an accessible camera shutter button is to launch the camera quickly and start taking pics.
[Xperia Z3 General] doministry:
Fake.
[Xperia Z3 General] Memnoch30:
I didn't take them, someone else did halfway through this thread. But my testing matches. Let me upload some samples of the sensor in low light.

edit: all my damn pics are of my kids/family so I won't be posting them. If I still had the phone I'd go out and get a few samples. Regardless, I do believe that with Lollipop if Sony updates the app to support DNG then we'll be golden. I'm almost sure it's the software getting in the way. I'm waiting for either the Z4 or the Z3 w/Lollipop.
[Xperia Z3 General] iBuzman:
playing around with background defocus.. (unlocked bootloader)
[Xperia Z3 General] radicans:
It's ok. Most of us in here have been through this debate and made up our minds already. There is every opinion imaginable, and you you will be hard pressed to change a single one of them :)

I know what you mean with the sony software though. Also eagerly awaiting Lollipop!
[Xperia Z3 General] undercover:
15mp manual

8mp auto

Originals in the usual place (my mega folder, link in previous post) . Auto wins on exposure, but ideal would be somewhere between the two.
[Xperia Z3 General] One Twelve:
Yep, so the question is what did auto do to get it right.

Auto took that shot with a four times faster shutter than manual.

It used average metering, manual has center weighted, which ignores the sky that's why it got blown out.

At night average metering can bite you but ifor this scene its the best option as there is a big light difference between sky & foreground. The histogram looks good for the auto shot. To do better, maybe increase exp by 0.3 to bring up the shadows or your focus and compose thingy.
[Xperia Z3 General] Nplus1:
I think activating HDR in Manual mode would have been enough, wouldn't it?
[Xperia Z3 General] slash_5150:
hi guys, is it possible to change the app which my pics open up in when I tap on the thumbnail in camera? currently it opens in Album and I don't see any option to change it. Forgot how I did it on my Z.

There are no defaults set for my Album app under app settings. I wana open them in Quickpic.
[Xperia Z3 General] Drzfr3shboialex:
View from NJ to NY.
[Xperia Z3 General] Artood2s:
Go in to Setting > Apps > Album and under "Launch by Default" click on "Clear Defaults"

Edit: Oops, didn't read your last part. That is odd. Maybe re-install Quickpic and see if the systems prompts with which app you want to use. It gave me the option to use Google Photos.
[Xperia Z3 General] One Twelve:
Was checking out a galaxy S5 vs Note 4 auto shoot out and came away with the impression at least visually the note 4 shots looked better. How is this possible when both cameras are of the same generation.

A closer examination of the exifs revealed why. metering!

Outdoors in the park a matrix or average metering almost always produced a better exposure. let me qualify that. outdoors shooting away from the sun produced a more balanced exposure as it should. centre weighted was too dependent on where focus was set and at times underexposed the subject. Double fault.. The note 4 picked average metering in auto more often than the s5 and got better shots. However when metering chosen in auto was the same the differences were minor.

I noticed the same even with indoors shots, subtle differences but average still won out over centre weighted.

So when to use centre weighted ? In macros where the foreground is better lit than the background or flash photos. one person flash shot ? spot. A few more people or larger subject with flash ? centre-weighted.

Or where there is a plain background and not something else to confuse the meter and you wanted to preserve how well lit the subject is, this is when centre or more precisely spot works. It wont let the subject get dim by averaging. It won't mess with the lighting on your subject. Won't smear light all over the shot.

Anytime sun or bright lights in the shot then its a different ball game. average will smear that light all over and give a hazy shot. centre or spot will result in a blown highlights. You could try hdr but it might be easier to just avoid that very bright spot in the frame to begin with.

So in SA if the shots don't come out right, check the metering chosen in the exifs. if centre was chosen, go into manual and try average, it might come out better. If so, then an extra step to try is the focus and recompose trick.

This leaves night time shots. where you set focus will matter here and -exp comp.