yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Xperia Z3 General] zodiac100:
Use as low iso setting as possible. Adjust white balance especially in daylight and compensate for exposure according by using the sky as a reference point.

---------- Post added at 02:53 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:30 PM ----------

For me, too much is made of the image processing of the xperia cameras. Not saying it can't be improved but it's not the source of all the cameras problems.

The note 4 has a much narrower angled lens and so will always produce sharper and more finely detailed images than the z2 and z3.

On the software side, the auto mode is the only thing that's inconsistently hopeless. Focus could be faster and more consistent. Highlights get blown out a bit too much which suggests some kind of metering problem. This got worse with 4.4.4 on z2 and I think the z3 also had this problem but it's been improved a bit with updates since then. Light sources are still over exposed but objects close to them don't get as faded as they still do on z2.

Correcting this problem will also help nighttime photography as light sources tend to throw the camera off focus a bit too much.

The key thing is to use as low an iso value as possible to reduce the extent of luminescent noise present. The problem with this is it makes it harder to get a fully focused image in lowlight. OIS would help to improve this situation.

Samsung historically focused on making very sharp shooting cameras by using narrow lenses and a lot of software sharpening.

They've moved a bit from this position with the s6 to produce better lowlight results and dare I say it, taking a leaf out of Sonys book.

The s6 has a wider angled lens with a wider aperture and there's also less software sharpening to reduce noise levels.

S5 was very sharp in daylight but hopeless in lowlight, note 4 was just as sharp but a bit better in lowlight.

S6 isn't as sharp as those two but better in lowlight.

It's about striking a balance between good lighting and low lighting situations.

Sony should stop increasing the angles of their lenses. In fact I think they should reduce them. The 25mm lens of the z3 is just crazy for such a sensor. The 27mm lens of the z2 was already too wide for the sensor.

OIS is also now a necessity. A lot of the time, you guys are zooming into partially focused images and blaming image processing for the poor details.

I tried to attach a photo sample and crops but for some reason since updating to android 5.0, I can't attach any photos to the XDA app from my phone. I'll uninstall and reinstall to see if that fixes the problem
[Xperia Z3 General] zodiac100:
Indoor shot from z2 with natural light coming from the window. Iso 50. Taken with phone stabilised on the flat arm of the sofa.
[Xperia Z3 General] gantner.patrick1:
Thanks :) what about HDR setting?
[Xperia Z3 General] zodiac100:
Hdr is very modest on z2 and don't think it's any different on z3. The sensor has a good dynamic range so it's not needed as much as is the case with other devices.

I recommend shooting at full resolution only dropping down to 8mp to use the night scene mode for night shots. This mode does use a very low iso and slow shutter so it's best when the phone is very stable and balanced.

My advice, just use the manual mode at full res and use as low an iso as possible. You need to learn to steady your hands though. Experiment with holding the phone in different ways to see which grip is steadier especially if like me you prefer to use the two stage shutter as opposed to the single click or on screen shutter.
[Xperia Z3 General] Silverdace:
I believe that part of my problem with the Z3 camera quality is a result of a faulty handset.

There's another thread somewhere which talks about a misaligned lens causing blurring at edges and the pink spot problem, both problems I have which I was blaming as an inherent problem on the Z3. It seems this is not common to all Z3s and so must be a hardware fault.

I'm making a warranty claim so will hopefully see a new handset though I imagine the technicians will just argue the faults are 'normal'.

I have also just repaired a galaxy S5 and now have the low-light pink spot and less clear images. This suggests to me that either I got the lens dirty somehow or just like the Z3 the lens is perhaps not aligned properly now. The pink spot I feel is definitely a hardware issue with blurry images also caused by the same problem.

Question for the optics gurus out there.

Would a lens with focal axis not aligned perpendicular to housing glass cause issues?
[Xperia Z3 General] zodiac100:
Which metering setting do you use. Centre metering can result in the centre of the image being focused while the edges or corners are blurrier!
[Xperia Z3 General] Silverdace:
I use Multi when in Manual mode.

The camera app does annoy me that it defaults to Centre, Face focus etc. so if you select scene mode then switch back to full manual it resets.

I guess the default centre weighted, face focus is for portrait shots?
[Xperia Z3 General] zodiac100:
Yeah multi is best for landscape and scenic shots as it uses the average exposure.

I think face exposes faces when in view and multi for everything else.

Centre is best for macro and close ups.

The software on the xperia cameras is very frustrating and in so many ways.

What annoys me the most is how limiting in manual mode at full res. No hdr, exposure limitations unless you use iso auto.

The night scene mode uses low iso, high exposure and slow shutter but the manual mode will not allow you to do the same. It'll only allow you increase exposure when shooting backlight scenes at low iso and even then not in all circumstances.
[Xperia Z3 General] Silverdace:
Given Sony's pedigree in cameras it's ridiculous that Sony phones don't have the best camera hardware AND software on the market.

If I was a conspiracy theorist I'd say Sony has agreed with Apple etc to purposely handicap their Xperia range so that they can continue to sell their camera sensors to them. Their camera sensor business makes far more profit than the Phone division so perhaps they feel if they trumped the competition then the competition wouldn't buy from them anymore.

I think Apple and Sony have a reasonably good relationship so wouldn't be surprised if Apple have squeezed them into handicapping their phones. I imagine the profit for the iPhone 6 and Note 4 camera module sales far exceed the entire Xperia division's revenue.

Personally I think Sony would easily be the best on the market if they just fixed their cameras. Ideally they would also introduce OIS. I would buy OIS Xperia, even if it is thicker. Thicker just means bigger battery and more awesome battery life. Or shorten the Z3 by minimising top and bottom bezels and maintain battery size with thicker phone.

The thinness obsession is only really being pushed by the aesthetic marketing crew. Customers want battery, battery, battery.
[Xperia Z3 General] zodiac100:
I think if Sony is deliberately handicapping it's smartphone cameras it would be because they don't want them to cannibalise the sale of their dedicated point and shoot cameras.

It would be because they don't want smartphones to do to basic point and shoot cameras what they did to hand held gaming platforms like the psp.

I don't think it has anything to do with apple or Samsung. Apple don't have hardware that can rival point and shoot cameras. The iPhones camera is praised because it's very simple to use and delivers a consistent performance. In terms of raw imaging capabilities, it's a very average performer indeed.

Sony's 1/2.3 inch sensor has very good iso preformance which can rival some basic point and shoot cameras. Sony just limits it's use with software. The exposure limitations I talked about earlier is one example. The sensor is more than capable of performing in lowlight and at night with low iso values between 50 to 200 but then the software takes exposure control away forcing you to use iso 400 and above which in turn results in very noisy images. It's like they deliberately want to limit the image quality coming out of the camera. They're happy to give you low noise images in daylight but not in lowlight because that then makes compacts redundant for many.

It's the same with the insane use of ever wider angled lenses. It's done to limit the detail resolving potential of the sensor.

Cynics could argue that they used a compact sized sensor but then limited it's imaging potential with a combination of software limitations and wide angled lenses.

The hardware Sony sells to other oems doesn't have the capacity to rival compact cameras but the sensor on the Z1,z2,z3 can.

The note 4,s6,etc etc don't have the same iso performance. Don't forget for small sensors, low iso is the key to good clear low noise images.

Sony wants us to use higher iso and compensate by dropping exposure. That way you get pictures that are good enough to share on social networking and other media but pictures that don't hold up to any sort of pixel level scrutiny because they're noisy as hell.

I just use as low an iso value as possible. I get better quality images even if a little darker than I would otherwise want in lower lighting conditions.
[Xperia Z3 General] zodiac100:
A few shots.

Iso 200 first and 400 second. The 200 shot is cleaner but could have done with a slight exposure bump but the software doesn't allow it. The 400 shot has exposure reduced to -0.7. It would have been over exposed and very noisy otherwise.
[Xperia Z3 General] Stixxbixby:
Comparison with the S6 at Best Buy:
[Xperia Z3 General] Stixxbixby:
2 more pics:
[Xperia Z3 General] pchetan2:
S6 pics looks sharper ...but what are the lighting conditions there ...
[Xperia Z3 General] utsav911:
Just bought this phone and already in love with so many things specially the camera.

Anybody know how is the camera on lollipop?
[Xperia Z3 General] tiborprogmed:
macro

Hi

I have finally managed, HOW TO TAKE quick macro photos....

when you are ready to take a shot and there is not a good focus, you have to manually zoom into the object ( with volume rockers), and then zoom out...

It will results good pictures.
[Xperia Z3 General] CandyAndy:
I think that they both look pretty bad..but it would be nice to know also that which lightning is the correct one. Other one is way off.
[Xperia Z3 General] tiborprogmed:
I have always took bad macros with z3, I was alwas able to take good and quick macros with Nexus 5. But this is the maximum with Z3, I think, correct me, if i am wrong
[Xperia Z3 General] zodiac100:
Didn't get that impression at all. It's difficult to tell which is sharper without seeing the full images.

Only difference I could see was in white balance
[Xperia Z3 General] itsjustJOH:
Now that's how you take good photos! Very good, sir!
[Xperia Z3 General] pchetan2:
May be sharpness cannot be judged ....but yes ,the white balance is completely different on both .

Being a sony fan boy ,i hope sony's was natural photo .. :P
[Xperia Z3 General] Stixxbixby:
Pics 1 & 3 taken with the Z3 - manual 20mp/white balance fluorescent/iso 50

Pics 2 & 4 taken with the S6 auto settings

---------- Post added at 12:50 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:45 PM ----------

1st pic: Z3 manual 20mp/white balance fluorescent/iso 50 - I didn't try auto, but fluorescent seemed to be the best option considering the harsh fluorescent lighting at Best Buy

2nd pic: S6 Auto - very good white balance adjustments imo
[Xperia Z3 General] pchetan2:
You should have used auto white balance ......
[Xperia Z3 General] Cambapo:
Some night pics

I would like to show you how my Z3 preserves details and takes photos at night with an ISO of 250.

It would be cool if you could just zoom to 100%, but the compression of the server doesn't allow that since it downscales the photos.

The only downside of the camera is the extreme softening because of the software.

I also notice that some parts of the photos are sharper that others.
[Xperia Z3 General] zodiac100:
That's why the z3's picture was rather warm with yellowish whites. You should not always automatically assume that you use fluorescent under every type of fluorescent lighting. You should use the setting that's most accurate and I think in this case auto.

You should look on the white balance settings as a scale that goes from coldest colour temperature being auto to the warmest colour temperature being cloudy.

It's a colour temperature scale more than anything else.
[Xperia Z3 General] Silverdace:
Torn I am

I have an S5 and a Z3 and am trying to decide which to keep and which to sell.

For me the Z3 is the better phone in all respects except the CAMERA. The S5 Camera beats Z3 camera in every case except low light and I have been fundamentally dissatisfied with the Z3 camera. It can take awesome pictures if setup properly for the lighting etc but it's meant to be a quick snap device, hence the quick launch camera button. I have a DSLR for proper composed pics.

The update to Lollipop didn't improve anything on the Camera front and I don't believe Sony have any intent on fixing the camera problems. The auto white balance issue is probably the most visible fault. The detail destruction is only really visible when zooming in. If they fixed the Auto WB then I would be much happier.

I would like Sony to fix:

1. the not so Superior Auto

2. chroma blurring detail destruction

3. auto, auto, auto. At least one of the auto white balance, ISO and exposure is wrong in most pictures I take.

4. camera UI should be better with easier access to options in manual mode.

Has anyone written directly to the Xperia division head? I am very tempted to post them some pics along with an explanation of the problems. It may be that they have no idea how bad the Z3 is compared with the competition as he may have been fed the same edited manual mode pics the general media, reviewers etc. have been fed.

Questions:

1. Is it possible that with an unlocked bootloader a dev can bypass Sony's image processing or get access to RAW somehow?

2. Is it in any way likely Sony will fix the Z series camera?

3. Why should I keep the Z3?

Apologies in advance for the moaning and yes this is a first world problem.
[Xperia Z3 General] Stixxbixby:
Gonna see if I can try again soon with auto white balance just to compare...
[Xperia Z3 General] Stixxbixby:
... Annnnd auto w/b was indeed the difference.
[Xperia Z3 General] ebisa:
Some point and shoot shots from today. Pretty nice bokeh on the macro.
[Xperia Z3 General] jonmorris:
When the lighting is just right, the Z3 can take photos that look like you used a DSLR.
[Xperia Z3 General] marcolero:
Xperia Z3, Galaxy S6, N4, LG G3, Iphone 6 comparison.

Posting some images taken from GSMArena, I believe it is a more fair comparison.

The lower image is the iphone 6
[Xperia Z3 General] marcolero:
Posting some images taken from GSMArena

Posting some images taken from GSMArena, I believe it is a more fair comparison.
[Xperia Z3 General] marcolero:
Xperia Z3, Galaxy S6, N4, LG G3, Iphone 6 comparison

What do you think?
[Xperia Z3 General] doministry:
@ marcolero

Of course, flat surface is not the only scenario where camera should perform.

So those tests show only part of the truth.

But, Z3 is much more sharp by a big margin.
[Xperia Z3 General] vegetaleb:
I couldn't find any camera comparison between Z3 and M9, M9 camera is an epic fail for many and average for others, personally I am lost in taking Z3,M9 or S6 as my replacement for my M8, I am tired of poor camera
[Xperia Z3 General] Stixxbixby:
Here u go:

https://youtu.be/km-TC314g9E

Yeah, M9 has not been fairing well in the comparisons. If I were u, I would highly consider the forthcoming Z4 if waterproofing, SD card & front speakers r of importance. Otherwise the Z3 or S6 if u do not want to wait...
[Xperia Z3 General] vegetaleb:
Damn! I must reckon M9 has better camera! The Z4 is coming soon or it's for Fall?
[Xperia Z3 General] doministry:
Lol, M9 is just trash.

Oversaturated and unreal in colours,

screwed flash performance (the object is white),

video stabilization is a bit of a joke, lowlight performance is poor.

That's why HTC is a no-go.
[Xperia Z3 General] bradmax57:
I definitely need to spend some time with the camera on my z3, I take what appear to be rather ordinary pictures :(
[Xperia Z3 General] psychok9:
Have you noticed any improvement on Z3 camera with Lollipop?
[Xperia Z3 General] Stixxbixby:
Couldn't disagree more. M9 was just awful in almost every situation.
[Xperia Z3 General] vegetaleb:
When they cropped the parking door, it was better on M9 no?

Some Z3 photos were under-exposed
[Xperia Z3 General] progosu:
this video only proves that both, m9 and z3 are almost equally terrible when it comes to photography.
[Xperia Z3 General] doministry:
^^^ Buhahahaha!!
[Xperia Z3 General] guybrush2099:
yes

focus accuracy, correct white balance, less noise
[Xperia Z3 General] psychok9:
Wow... it seems great. Have you any sample in the morning/natural photo?
[Xperia Z3 General] guybrush2099:
8MPX - ISO 50

https://www.dropbox.com/s/dt4k7v5zbnrtzk7/DSC_0019.JPG?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/tfdp82g8u75dazd/DSC_0023%20%282%29.JPG?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/gwcb3c48rpojcgl/DSC_0025.JPG?dl=0

obviously they aren't 20MPX, so they have to be seen in full screen mode, without exaggerated zoom :)
[Xperia Z3 General] psychok9:
Thank you a lot. They are really nice!

Unfortunately I can't compare previous KitKat photos (full 20mpx) with your "downscaled" photos.
[Xperia Z3 General] Commando_ShamZz:
Taken using Dslr camera at 20.7 mp. Quality is okay But not as i expected.

Z3 shots - https://drive.google.com/folder/d/0BznsMByUNK3nMDJPNWtyTVpGM2s/edit
[Xperia Z3 General] psychok9:
[MENTION=6509939]Commando_ShamZz[/MENTION]

Have they taken with KitKat firmware?
[Xperia Z3 General] Commando_ShamZz:
Yes ! :)

On kitkat taken on my z3 dual D6633

Are they good ? Quality ?
[Xperia Z3 General] psychok9:
I'm not an expert but they seem very good!

If you will update Z3 to Lollipop post again new similar photos, I'm curious :)
[Xperia Z3 General] Commando_ShamZz:
No prob Broh

Am fed up of waiting for the update :\

but wont forget to upload new pics as soon as i got it

bcos i also want to see if there is any improvements :)

Only thing i am sad about is that there is no raw support in the update :\

and even cm12 dont support it. Otherwise any photo the z3 would have taken would be f#ckng awesome *~*
[Xperia Z3 General] N77NS:
best camera;)

????? sony

moving image is impossible to do well,
[Xperia Z3 General] meteor999:
I dont understand the complaints against the camera im getting some great shots with using the superior auto focus.....

This is with lollipop and for the record I only took one picture each time in other words I didn't simple take the best of multiple
[Xperia Z3 General] slonn:
I don't fully get it either. The shots taken on superior auto with the Z3 are of no worse quality than my galaxy S5.
[Xperia Z3 General] N77NS:
I'm desperate with this phone, every 10 frames is only good, the camera loses focus, I have lg g3, which works perfect image, and Sony was terribly disappointed but I made comparisons what lg pictures, Sony can not even after 5 files to offices around pretty picture

---------- Post added at 07:47 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:36 PM ----------

http://www.dodaj.rs/f/1g/6L/1YBZhRcj/20150329004143.jpg lg g3

http://www.dodaj.rs/f/I/Yh/4RENkd6g/dsc0060.jpg sony
[Xperia Z3 General] curiousgeorge1893:
I don't think the LG G3 camera is that good, no ISO or white balance options, no controls at all, heavy noise reduction and poor frame rates in lowlight, that's my opinion.
[Xperia Z3 General] meteor999:
No offence but you took two different pictures. Your head has clearly moved. This is not a great comparison

Q

Even at that I would say the Sony is more clear. I honestly can't see a difference.
[Xperia Z3 General] N77NS:
no major differences, Magnify the image and you will see the difference ... as much blurring sony,,, and what are the other pictures, no purity, lg settings but no real realistic images are clear and clean,,,, I'll show you another an example of what is lg
[Xperia Z3 General] N77NS:
lg g3
[Xperia Z3 General] N77NS:
z3

Phones are auto sonj 15 megapixels, lg 13mp
[Xperia Z3 General] N77NS:
Now you can see the difference that makes clear images with good focus, lg is ektra teelfon says a lot better and clearer picture
[Xperia Z3 General] zodiac100:
Indeed! As expected. That's the unfortunate thing about the z series cameras. They're very poor at point and shooting.

The auto mode and auto settings are only reasonable in broad daylight. Indoors, lowlight and night time shots are always wrong on white balance but especially iso. It cranks the latter up way too high.

Always use the lowest possible iso. Sony's iso 12800 bull**** is exactly that. Bull****!!

Only very good DSLR sensors can cope well with such high levels of light sensitivity.

Small sensors like the ones we have on smartphones need as conservative an iso value as possible. Once you go above 200 iso, the noise becomes evident and increasingly worse the higher you get.

The xperia cameras really need OIS to help stabilise the image especially in lowlight. That's probably why the auto software always goes for high iso values. To guarantee focus!

So I suppose what I'm trying to say is, the point and shoot crowd will always be very disappointed with the z series.

Don't see it improving any time soon. Sony's pretty average at software development. Well far off the levels of apple and Samsung.

We have no choice but to take manual control of the camera. That's just the bottom line!

---------- Post added at 10:50 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:45 PM ----------

Stop using auto iso. Drop the iso value on z3 and you'll get cleaner images. Check the exif info, I'm sure you'll find the g3 has taken the photos with a lower iso.

---------- Post added at 10:52 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:50 PM ----------

It does OK in daylight. The problems begin indoors, lowlight and night shots. noise becomes very much a problem using auto settings
[Xperia Z3 General] marcolero:
lower ISO level.

The first picture was taken by superior auto. The second with 15.5mp auto iso. The third with 15.5mp iso 100.
[Xperia Z3 General] marcolero:
samples

Samples

15.5 mpx

Iso auto
[Xperia Z3 General] esandovalsg:
I cant't take good photos with to much light (sun) I have Lollipop. Ideas to take a better pictures?
[Xperia Z3 General] esandovalsg:
The colors are not good, focus is good. What do you think?
[Xperia Z3 General] pchetan2:
[MENTION=2863802]zodiac100[/MENTION]

I negate you saying 12800 is bull ****... It is very useful in extreme low light conditions....your phone can actually use little light to take some excellent pictures.I admit that there is noise.. But othet phones cannot even capture that sought of image .

Pictures look much sharper on mobile..I have uploaded these from xda free app ...size got reduced to 20-30 kbs .....(pictures taken without flash ....)
[Xperia Z3 General] Silverdace:
You used auto white balance which is why leaves look pale.

Try cloudy or sunny white balance when taking pictures of trees and leaves.

Also try iso 50 when you've got light.
[Xperia Z3 General] ebisa:
nicely done, I like them all.
[Xperia Z3 General] N77NS:
just as well at my pictures, pictures are full of snow and pallor
[Xperia Z3 General] zodiac100:
There are light sources in all of those pictures and so you don't need iso 12800 to take those sorts of photographs.

For me pictures taken at iso 3200 and above don't really show good lowlight capabilities but lean more towards night vision. Very alien looking when to the scene indeed.

You're better off using flash where there is little to no light. What a lot of people don't realise is lowering the iso to between 50 to 100 actually produces decent photos with flash especially when shooting macro and portraits.

For me I don't need night vision. I want good lowlight performance and such high iso values on such small sensors doesn't give good lowlight photos. It just illuminates the scene so aggressively to a point where the image doesn't actually look like the scene you were trying to shoot. It's marketing bull more than anything else.