yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Xperia Z3 General] doministry:
I visit this thread (and similar on Z2 forum...) to see pictures and know how people get good results. And share mine.

So ok, all the whiners, you "proved" your point, now can you just move on?

We UNDERSTOOD, you don't like this Sony. It's bad.

But hey! The market is full of better phones, so just choose one and voila!

There are so many of them!

I'm sure Samsung, Nokia, HTC or Apple threads would love you much more for this bull..p,

but you waste your energy here. Nobody actually believes that anymore, and the proofs...

Weak.

Can you just spoil other threads? I understand you don't know much about photography, you don't have to! But maybe it's better to stop pretending? Or just make yourself a nice, neat whining thread? Xda tools allow that, it's easy!
[Xperia Z3 General] One Twelve:
Nope its a science vs art

reductionsim vs holistics

And the ones banging on about science are missing the point. Nothing i've read in this thread prevents you from taking nice pictures.

How major are the differences ?

All i hear are words like terrible or not good. Then i see alternatives and they are slightly better. Colour renditions is another, iphones do well with colour, the 4S has a nine point lead over the Z3 according to Dxo. Could you tell the difference, yes, 9 points will be noticeable. Photos will be more pleasing.

But how hard is it to fix ? A tweak in post, that's it or not even that.
[Xperia Z3 General] Chefproll:
You're wrong. Just show me a picture taken with a Z3 having the 20.7 quality Sony advertized and promised and I'll change my mind in no time.

Here's my answer to that...

Sorry, no, not taken with the Z3. ;)
[Xperia Z3 General] One Twelve:
Good but why you want to shift away from apple. Now you're a lost sheep.

Any way you get ios8 which opens up more possibilities. pre ios8, iphone was the most crippled camera out there. all you had was some exp comp. The hardware was capable but apple thought you did not need to do more (!)

I'd say the trees weren't the subject to begin with. A for motion blur or not look at the other parts of the image, is the lampost blurry. no.

They're all landscapes which one is not supposed to do with a mere phone camera. I think they've succeeded.

But covering up weak areas is normal, notice the ones with a tilt shift in them, that's to draw your eye to the point of interest. Its not about details more about how the shot was taken and its emphasis.

An ISO 800 at 1/25 means an ISO 400 or even 200 would give a better one. The reviewer did not try, people over here will.

Now i understand what you mean by blur, its not blur, its noise. high iso's do that.

huh ?

Lets see a comparison.

This after how many days experience with the Z3 ? 2 or three is it.
[Xperia Z3 General] radicans:
I don't think anyone is claiming that the Z3 prevents people from doing nice compositions. It's just that it would be nice if what's in the frame looked as good as it could be.

But as I've said before, hopefully RAW in Android 5.0 will solve things for people with higher demands, since Sony demonstrably makes some really good sensors!
[Xperia Z3 General] Chefproll:
We paid for a 20.7 MP camera Sony advertized as the crown jewels of smartphone cameras, we got a camera of the lowest tier of present smartphone cameras.

So you call it "whining" if we post the facts to prevent others from getting trapped the same way ?

1. Not WE; YOU !

2. I don't dislike Sony - but I dislike being baited by Sony's advertizing into paying big bucks for a smartphone that just does not deliver on Sony's promises.

I did, got a Note 4, now. But there are still masses of people believing the lies of advertizing and "reviews".

Keeping silent would be just a shame.

Ok, Mr. big mouth: Just do the proof the other way round: Post pictures taken with the Z3 which do NOT show that flaws.

But I asked you to do that several times already - you never delivered. Because the Z3 CANNOT deliver. :)

To make a point: You'll become my second entry on my ignore list - just because I don't want to feel tempted to go offtopic again.

If you find it nice to pay for things you don't get; just live happily ever after. ;)
[Xperia Z3 General] abhinav.tella:
Really good pic for a wallpaper, Chefproll.:)
[Xperia Z3 General] dtroup64:
There is no such thing as 20.7 quality. It's a pixel quantity. It has nothing to do with quality. I don't have the Z3v, but I'm pretty sure every picture taken at the 20.7 MP level has 20.7MPs in it.
[Xperia Z3 General] dtroup64:
I'll be honest— I'm considering the Z3v... but I'm not seeing enough pictures. I really don't care an iota for all of the analysis. I'd like to see some shots from actual Z3v users so that I can understand what type of pictures are being taken with this camera.

In most other Camera pics threads, for other devices, folks post a TON of shots. Here folks have become afraid to post shots as they immediately get criticized for having flaws.

I just want to see the pictures. It's fun. And it helps people like me — who will never, never, ever, in a million years, use an image at its full 20.7MP resolution— make a decision about what kind of pictures this camera is capable of.

Sincerely,

David Troup
[Xperia Z3 General] One Twelve:
Was looking at nexus 5 with lollipo and noticed the chroma sampling was different with the raw processed shots compared to the jpegs put out. So you can tweak that. YbCbCr ratios were different, presumably user settable. Whether this makes foliage looks better i don't know.

About the luminance, what i liked about your post is any shot that is iso 800 or more requires a green hue reduction in post.

As for why green matters, read

this

.

---------- Post added at 01:05 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:03 AM ----------

Nothing to fear. post away.

In the mentime check out the Z1 & Z2 threads, they will be similar.
[Xperia Z3 General] dtroup64:
I have no fear. I don't own the camera. I'm not interested in reading the Z1 or Z2 thread. I'm interested in seeing shots from the Z3 and Z3v. :)
[Xperia Z3 General] radicans:
We mostly criticize our own photos, not others :) There have been some good contributions, you can search this thread for [MENTION=3767251]iBuzman[/MENTION] for example, who has posted a lot of macro shots. [MENTION=3241487]Zanr Zij[/MENTION] also did a very useful post with many photos. There are more people of course. I must admit that I have mostly posted comparisons, but have posted two or three lots of plain photos. Will try to do better on this front.
[Xperia Z3 General] Chefproll:
Ok, let's say pixel count has nothing to do with picture quality, right ?

Then tell me how to get a real good quality picture out of 5 x 5 pixels.

Of course I know your point of view: Pixel count is not everything, there are far more factors in the equation like quality of optics, post-processing, image stabilization and the like.

But without a sufficient number of pixels, there is NO means able to provide for good pictures.

Even the best optics cannot save a picture shot with 5 x 5 pixels.

I am SO sick of reading things like "quality has nothing to do with the pixel count".

Of course it has. If all other contributors like optics, post-processing, etc. are the same, it's the pixel count making the difference.

So PLEASE stop repeating that ancient wisdom of our ancesters claiming that "quality has nothing do to with the pixel count".

It is just not true.

If you disagree, please post a 5 x 5 pixels photo of a car. Let's see if anybody's able to recognize the make.
[Xperia Z3 General] dtroup64:
Quality has nothing to do with pixel count, as long as we remain in the real world. You cannot find a camera that will take shots at 5 x 5 pixels, so why even entertain that comparison?

A 20.7 mp shot is around 5,600 pixels X 3,700 pixels

My canon takes shots around 3,000 x 2,000

Here's a shot that is 720 pixels X 480 pixels.

Did I need this to be 5,600 x 3,700 pixels for it to be of quality? Again, the question is simply: "What are you going to do with the picture?" If you are planning to print it in very large format than sure, pixel quantities matter. But these days, who is using their phone camera to take pictures for reproduction in large format print? Am I missing something?
[Xperia Z3 General] One Twelve:
Z2 & Z3 have identical photo score on Dxo. it will give you more to look at.

This is one of the reasons you do not find too many old timers here ( counted less than 5) , those with Z2 saw no reason to upgrade to Z3.

recommended the Z1 thread because there were an awesome bunch of people in there. There were like ten of them each trying to outdo the other. Learnt loads from those guys :)

if you want to know Z3 follow the family tree.
[Xperia Z3 General] dtroup64:
Gotcha. Appreciate it. I'll still look forward to more shots from the Z3. :) To be honest, I'm leaning towards the Nexus 6, but I tested out the Z3v in a store, and it felt great in my hand. Coming from the Note 2, I'm a little sick of this large brick to carry around! :)
[Xperia Z3 General] One Twelve:
Dxo has given nexus 6 a good score which is amazing because they never test out nexus phones. Awesome work by moto.

looking at the results it matches the z3 for photo score. but looking at the test parameters N6 is slightly ahead. This is like a hairs width.

overall score ie photo + video z3 beats n6 by one point. Very close.

the problem is why they had to make a six incher. a lot of people will struggle with a phone of that size.

While we're at it let me post this ranking of one parameter by Dxo : Texture, this is what people look at and get all hot & bothered.

Texture

-------

DxOMark Mobile Photo

-------------------------------

88	Nokia Lumia 1020

84	Nokia 808 PureView

83	Sony Xperia Z2

80	GoPro HERO3

78	Samsung Galaxy S5

76	Nexus 6

76	Samsung Galaxy S4

75	Sony Xperia Z3

74	HTC 8X

73	Apple iPhone 4S

73	HTC One M8

72	BlackBerry Z10

71	Apple iPhone 6

70	Apple iPhone 6+

69	LG G2

67	Apple iPhone 5

67	Amazon Firephone

66	Sony Xperia Z1

64	Samsung Galaxy Note II

63	Samsung Galaxy S III

61	Apple iPhone 4

61 Nokia Lumia 925

59	Apple iPhone 5S

55	Samsung Galaxy S II

39	Sony Xperia Z

35	Nokia Lumia 920

people with a Z2 will find their shots little more sharper than Z3. Software updates could change this with Z3. Dxo does not retest.

Z3 has more details that the iphone sixes. Not a noticeable difference in details between n6, S4 & Z3. the S5 might do little better.

And the 1020 at the top is why people swoon over nokia.

remember this is just one out of 14 parameters for photo & video. And then there is the OS vs design vs everything else.

In terms of design, Z3v looks a lot like a Z2 to me than a Z3.

How hard is it to imagine the Z3v is a rebadged Z2 for cheaper than a Z3 for the telcos ;)
[Xperia Z3 General] dedei:
Is my camera screwed? My indoor pics are always blurry as hell
[Xperia Z3 General] pvcdroid:
DXOMark link

Why would you take one of about 20 elements from the DXOmark scores to prove some point. The overall rating is what is important to these users. Unfortunately, iphone 6 and 6+ have the highest ratings and occupy one and two positions currently for overall scores @ an 82 score. The Z3, Z2, and Galaxy S5 are all tied for 3rd place at 79. Yes, the Z2 and Z3 have identical scores. The Lumia 1020 has a score of 74 in 11th place. Enough said about this stupid subject. Any of these phones will provide good picture quality "for a smartphone". They aren't a interchangeable lens camera and without appropriate lenses you are going to get an inferior picture in less than ideal lighting conditions. Here is the DXOMark link for anyone to peruse. BTW - there is nothing subjective about the DXOMark scoring methodology. The scores are what they are based on consistent application of scientific measurement methods. Anyone worried about the Z3 picture quality should reference this site and not pay attention to armchair photographers and their useless and manipulated opinions.

http://www.dxomark.com/Phones
[Xperia Z3 General] laufersteppenwolf:
Guys, just a quick reminder that we do NOT allow namecalling/fighting... So please stop this now...

----> Thread cleaned

EDIT: Sorry guys, I never intended to close this thread... I must have ticked the close thread box by accident... It's re-opened now again :o
[Xperia Z3 General] subhani:
Z3 vs iPhone 6+ non scientific amateur blind camera test

So i spontaneously decided to take some random images using the Z3 and the iP6+. No lab conditions here guys so don't point that out please. iPhone taken on auto and Z3 using manual 20mp AFAICR. Apologies for the inconsistent compositions of each shot, though I am aware that the composition can give an advantage to the device that took it. Like I said, I didn't want it to be too scientific as I would never have gotten round to doing it. Anyhoo... Empty your minds of any discrete fanboyism, brand loyalty, preconceived ideas and GO!

i. Turn your brightness to max. Try not to pixel peep or zoom in etc. Ask yourself which look better at first glance.

ii. Write down your guesses, which is which.

iii. Then download the full sized images below to compare, zoom, crop, examine exif etc.

iv. See if your guesses were right and whether your initial observations as to color, detail, depth and realism was justified.

v. Share your thoughts here. Be frank/candid, be sensible too. I don't care, I have both devices so it doesn't matter either way for me.

1.a

1.b

2.a

2.b

3.a

3.b

4.a

4.b

Full size images in the folder called 'Cat's Meal'

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/3jcusfbj9c48oxr/AABKHItzCN6sLfLJIPqeDVqFa?dl=0
[Xperia Z3 General] One Twelve:
OK, and my guesses were wrong for the first two so i wondered why

my guess 1a is z3 and 1b is iP6+

Nope, its the other way around. So why does 1b look better. It has more contrast. If you compare the histograms the ip6+ has skinny peaks compared to the Z3. Skinny peak means less contrast and more haze.

i don't know why there is a EV+ in the ip6+ but it allows you to do this sort of thing. It did not automatically change metering to spot which is something i've noticed it does by itself sometimes.

If you don't use it right you get a worse shot even though the iso is half that of the z3. So that is the lesson here. Mess up the metering and even a lower iso will produces a lesser shot.

Same story again, what i thought was the Z3 turns out to be the iP6+. Just goes to show that metering can make or break a shot regardless of the camera.

You can make a 'cats meal' out of any camera :D

Expected worse for ISO 12800 but its not half bad. To get the iP6+ to keep up will require a third party app and a steady hold.

Nice portraits. Your cat is a natural poser.

1/32 just made it without blur.
[Xperia Z3 General] radicans:
Haven't looked at correct answers yet, but on the whole I would they are quite similar (apart from keyboard). I like 1a and 2b because the plate looks more like white on my monitor (guessing ip6 here). On the other hand, the steak looks a little bit yummier in 1b and 2a (guessing Z3), maybe because the exposure is slightly darker. Think the 1a and 2b could benefit from exposing 1/2 to 1 stop down, for a more appetizing mood.

Keyboard... I don't know how to judge, they are different shots, and no context. If the purpose is to get the best possible read on the keys, then 3a :)

Cats are similar too. 4b has a more interesting lighting i think, more contrast, but I don't think that is anything you can put down to camera. My guess here is 4a ip6 and 4b Z3. But lighting differences apart, they are very similar I think.
[Xperia Z3 General] radicans:
Some random Z3 shots. First one is manual mode (not SA!) with ISO high sensitivity mode which allows ISO 12800. The light comes from street lighting only. The rest are 8MP manual mode. Think I did HDR on the sky.
[Xperia Z3 General] radicans:
A complex issue of course, which seems to depend greatly on environment. I have seen what I need to see in nature shots, but in "cityscapes" they are probably more on equal footing.

As a side note, I'm working on finding a good demosaic (sensor RAW -> RGB photo) + filtering combo for a camera app to use in Android 5.0. Have implemented and tested a very promising RAW conversion algo (on the stationary). Takes much more processing time of course than with a simple algorithm, but if computed with the onboard GPU I think it can be done quickly enough! Then I'm tempted to force a downsample to 5MP (1/4 downsampling can be done very quickly and with good detail preservation) for a crisp image without much processing or other nonsense! Much rather have that than 20 million heavily processed pixels :p The MP count on any sensor is actually only 1/3 of that in terms of RGB data anyway. So our 20.7MP is only 7MP in actual RGB data, the rest comes from an educated guess!

And no denoising, so only for daytime shots. Well, that's my naive plan anyway, we'll see if it works or not, maybe I will be able to take my forest shots at last ;)
[Xperia Z3 General] subhani:
Are you actually developing this app or looking for this ability in an app? In any case, it sounds intriguing and sounds like a much better way of doing it than the current form. Keep us posted bud. :good:

BTW, I'm gonna do some comparisons of trees/leaves/bushes to test the Z3 at it's weakest. Problem is the weather is bad this time in London.
[Xperia Z3 General] radicans:
I kinda left out that bit of information.. :) Yes, developing an app with a built-in sophisticated RAW converter like the ones in dedicated software. The idea is to circumvent the Sony processing, but not have to do the RAW conversion on every single photo in a separate software on the stationary computer. I have no fear regarding the code for the conversion/processing, but just thinking of doing the user interface gives me nightmares. But I think there are open source camera apps out there to build on. Regardless, I won't be able to try it until we get Android 5.0 on our devices.
[Xperia Z3 General] marc539:
Here are some quick pics I took on bike ride earlier today.

On this one top left brown discoloration was my fault, had finger near there.

---------- Post added at 09:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:22 PM ----------

Sorry about the HUGE images lol, not sure how to minimize them.
[Xperia Z3 General] juanmaasecas:
My choice:

1.b

2.a

3.b

4.b

I'm going to download the full version of the pictures right now...
[Xperia Z3 General] subhani:
VERY nice shots. Ideal conditions for great images. Trees and leaves come out fine in my IMO. I guess we would only know for sure if there were something to compare with. Good job and what a beautiful place! Excuse my ignorance but where is that?

Sent from Z3 using Tapatalk.

---------- Post added at 06:53 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:52 AM ----------

Very interesting choices indeed. Although I have a good idea why you've gone with those I would be eager to hear your own explanation.

Sent from Z3 using Tapatalk.
[Xperia Z3 General] alirezaircn:
I have no idea if I am wrong or not. I have both Z3 and Moto G 2014 ( which is said not that great as Z3 ) but I really like the quality of photos by Moto (regardless of MP). Z3 photos are always tinted by white everywhere. Wherever light is present, white is exaggerated in Z3 photos. And the photos looks pale. Here I compare some photos. Please let me know your idea as I might be wrong.

Sony Auto

Moto Auto:

Sony Auto:

Moto HDR:

Sony Manual HDR:

Moto HDR:
[Xperia Z3 General] radicans:
It depends on who you ask :) As for myself, I agree with your observations completely.
[Xperia Z3 General] alirezaircn:
So, it's personal taste. I wonder who may like photos with white colors exaggerated! If you check my first posted photos ( 1st and 2nd ), dark places are well retrieved by Moto while Z3 is darker...
[Xperia Z3 General] GoyoNeuff:
Thank you.

For what I have seen here in XDA and around the web, I disagree with you when you said that the Z3 photos are that bad. Not all Z3 pictures are that bad. Now I will agree with you that the software might be crappy, and for that Apple is a perfect example of doing great things with imaging algorithms... However, I am very hopeful that Android L, which should bring RAW capabilities, will solve this issue as some developer will probably bring a great camera application to have better post-processing on the fly pictures.

Cheers !

G.
[Xperia Z3 General] brynte5:
if the problems with the camera quality are caused by the software, wouldn´t using another camera app with better software, solve the problem...?
[Xperia Z3 General] jonmorris:
It's like the Z1 and Z2 all over again. Great camera, poor software.

This was fixed and my Z2 takes incredibly sharp and detailed photos, so how can the Z3 now be taking softened images that look fuzzy at 100%?

If it's purely software, and I am sure it is, then the software guys at Sony should have a few questions to answer.

Let's make it clear, I won't ditch the Z3 because of this. History shows it will be fixed, but history also shows that this keeps happening!!
[Xperia Z3 General] Chefproll:
Already tried that; with no success at all.

I fear it's the camera firmware which all other apps also use.
[Xperia Z3 General] Blaalad12:
I initially was disappointed when i first opened the camera app for the first time and took a picture! Everything seemed fuzzy/blurry and sharpness was nowhere to be seen which was odd because sharpness was the first thing i expected from this camera! However , I never really extensively tested the camera! I just made my mind up , then saw others with the same complaints and thought yup. the camera sucks .......................... until now :)

About an hour ago i decided to take a few snaps just to see how the pics turned out! Iam not a big photo taker if iam honest so iam no expert in photography but strangely i found myself suddenly impressed by the camera! I have no idea why but the blurryness i first experienced seems to have vanished! I cant say too much in terms of the quality as iam no expert but what i can say is that i was pleased with the results!

I also tried 4:3 as suggested but saw no difference personally but bare in mind i only viewed the photo's on the phones display ! I did not upload them to the computer (not yet anyway)

I also havent updated anything so ive no idea why iam seeing an improvement! One interesting thing to note however is that i installed quickpic to replace sony's gallery as i didnt like it at all! I cant imagine viewing the photo's in the quickpic app being the difference but who knows eh :)
[Xperia Z3 General] GoyoNeuff:
I am unsure if you are just trolling here... :confused:

As I understand it, not really. I think it will boil down to when Android L is rolled out into Sony phones and maybe we get the RAW data to get it to show better pictures with another App. Or, like I have the feeling, Sony will improve their imaging App.

Thanks a lot for the previous Z's generation feedback. I do hope the say as you. The Z3 seems to be an outstanding device.

Cheers !

I don't think you will get anywhere with something like this until the RAW capabilities are there.

Thank you for the feedback, and thank you for trying 4:3. !

Thanks a lot ! Settings?

Cheers,

G.
[Xperia Z3 General] Blaalad12:
Is there anyone out there that is a photographer and has a sony z2/z3 that perhaps knows how to get the best from this camera and could maybe share some advice / tips on how to get the best results? Would be great if someone could get a thread goin with tips and advice and people could posts pictures of the results they got and the tweaks made to get those results :)

Just a thought :)
[Xperia Z3 General] tamilplaya98:
You can set as much as you want in the camera settings, but the photo quality is bad. The only solution: You ALL have to write to sony that the photo quality is bad and that they have to update the camera firmware. But they only will do it, if WE ALL complain the problem to sony!
[Xperia Z3 General] G1_enthusiast:
Sony seems to screw things up since Z and Z1 days, luckily there was a user name Jishnu who can tune the camera, otherwise its a POS with Megapixel size for the gimmicks, sort of like having a big D but dont know how to use it.