yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Xperia Z3 General] mylove2004tc:
I was disappointed with what Sony did with the camera on a smartphone. Wait upgrade to 5.0.2 but worse still photo with dark colors and very noisy and not sharp.

Goodbye sony , Model Z3 is the last i use..

Manual 20 mp Z3 lollipop
[Xperia Z3 General] ebisa:
Some test images I made :)
[Xperia Z3 General] exnokiafan:
But........ what about apps like Camera FV-5??

Has anyone felt the difference between the stock app and this app? In terms of available options and results.
[Xperia Z3 General] juanmaasecas:
Things like iso control ONLY works on Sony app. And the image processing, etc is the same. The other apps only provide you another way to select the settings already included in Sony app (and not all of them).

I would only recommend any app for hdr, if you like a more exaggerated effect, and Procapture for shooting 20mpx scenes where you're able to tune exposure level and focus point (touchable, not manual of course).
[Xperia Z3 General] exnokiafan:
Too bad :(

I wish there were more smartphone manufacturers with the same love for photography that Nokia/MS has. They offer full manual controls even in a 90 euros device. Not fair :(
[Xperia Z3 General] defcomg:
Sony always wants to be that guy there is a reason why things like iso only work on Sony devices .

between the camera driver and the actual camera app there are two major layers the api layer and the platform driver layer what Sony seems to have done is not implement it the normal way in the platform part of the camera framework so when it comes to the api layer which majority of camera apps rely on iso is broken.

what they have done is extend the camera api with their private APIs not private as in unreachable ie Samsung , but private in the sense that if you use stock android APIs you will never have access to them.

what app developers should be doing is giving Sony the finger and accessing the platform level directly then use Sony's APIs.

I've mentioned this before there's been manual exposure time since the Xperia z but it's buried deep down.

To address the image processing I have yet to fomulate a theory on why Sony does what it does one would think they purposely mess up the image quality.

Qualcomm SOC has built in ISP image signaling Processor what saw after a few hours of investigation was that The Images first goes through Qualcomms ISP then gets outputted as 8bit YUV Data then it gets sent to Cacao VM which runs the "BIONZ" so called ISP at this point is where things go wrong they seem to apply noise reduction then proceed to further sharpen the image again then its encoded as jpeg .

Clearly The way they process images is worse than the defacto method so they should just leave it as is that's why another device with same sensor will always outdo Sony.
[Xperia Z3 General] juanmaasecas:
Thank you so so much for your explanation, but I have a question. Samsung uses also a dedicated ISP in their phones. Why is the processing better?
[Xperia Z3 General] defcomg:
In the case of Samsung they don't use Qualcomms ISP its completely bypassed I think Qualcomm calls it companion mode or something.

in any caee when companion chip is used the default image signaling processor is disable this was also the major roadblock when we tried getting raw from Samsung devices as they were no raw stream available because qcom ISP was not in use.

The External ISP simply does a better job at processing images than the SOC built in one, what I've noticed on Samsung devices isp maybe processing in 10bit mode as opposed to 8bit the extra 2 bits may not sound much but that 2^10 color depth of 1024 vs 8 bit 256. Samsung is able to produce a better balanced image when processing at 10bit you can overexpose the image and recover the highlights this then gives you clean shadows therefor it requires less noise reduction which helps resolve details much better.

Another thing about dedicated isp I think noise reduction is not like Sony's where its always on the same threshold , I think it has some sort of noise analysis so it can adjust to varying degrees.

The ISP used is from Fujitsu and apparently even in DSLR word Fujitsu produces the best JPEG in terms of detail

I'm an avid reader in the dreview boards and I've seen Fujitsu jpegs being praised .

To put simply Image quality is better because the signaling processor does a better job than built in one.

Raw is must if you are not happy with stock algorithm it puts everyone on almost even playing field, then it becomes a case of what optics are better at least that my philosophy lol.
[Xperia Z3 General] juanmaasecas:
You're my god, thank you again!

Where can I read some further information about this matter?

About lenses, I hate the tendency of using more and more wider lens. I think they're worse for distortion and detail. I prefer the iPhone 35mm approach so far. 25mm in z3 are awful, and I also prefer 31mm on note 4 to the new 28mm lens on galaxy s6...
[Xperia Z3 General] defcomg:
Lol agreed about wide angle after lens correction you end up having to crop some of the image making the reason for having the wide angle in the first place almost void .

from Fujitsu site interestingly seems the z1 is listed as using their ISP along with Samsungs and iPhone.

www.fujitsu.com/downloads/CN/fss/newsletter/fujitsu45-en/special-media-coverate/interview/01.html

this is also a good blog site to follow image-sensors-world.blogspot.com/

about note 3 using Fujitsu ISP www.fonearena.com/blog/83420/samsung-galaxy-note-3-camera-samples.html

goes as far back as the s2 www.anandtech.com/show/4686/samsung-galaxy-s-2-international-review-the-best-redefined/9

driver level https://github.com/VanirAOSP/kernel.../media/platform/msm/camera_v2/sensor/external

www.dpreview.com/forums/1061

/offtopic
[Xperia Z3 General] Stixxbixby:
If Sony doesn't rectify their image processing woes in the Z4, would any of u consider switching platforms - to Samsung, etc?
[Xperia Z3 General] sid3091:
No. In the end, its pics are good enough.
[Xperia Z3 General] cadboncopyvw:
Whilst Sony may not be perfect I don't plan on switching any time soon. I've had a Samsung phone and vowed never again (I'm not a fan of Touchwiz) yet I bought a Samsung tablet and barely 12 months after its release - no Lollipop release for it (it's now rooted and running cm12 but that means tripping knox on the model I have).

HTC phones don't excite me particularly. Nexus don't have Sd card slots and I spend a lot of time in areas with no mobile signal on any network. I'd consider an IPhone again if only that didn't mean using ITunes.

This all may change by next contract renewal date of course but Sony have the edge for me in terms of having a reasonable sized phone, passable camera and decent battery life. I did briefly consider the one+ however.
[Xperia Z3 General] Stixxbixby:
For me, I would not trade the build, ip rating, SD card, stereo speakers, BATTERY LIFE & camera potential, etc for anything else on the market atm...

So, I am getting the gs6 for my wife. She's had a gs3 & gs4, so she's due.

Then I can compare it with my Z3 & forthcoming Z4, hehe!
[Xperia Z3 General] bencfc:
Theres a petition online to try and get Sony to improve there camera software Google it . I cannot post the link as I just joined. I posted the link on the Sony xperia support forum and they deleted it instantly! no more Sony phones for me unless they improve there camera software. whats most annoying is other manufacturers use Sony camera sensors and Get much better results theres lots of comparisons on the petition page. The galaxy note 4 beat it in a blind test wtf Sony
[Xperia Z3 General] pchetan2:
Dude ..petitions dont work ...........Galaxy note 4 uses better camera algorithms and hence better pictures ...IMO Xoeria z3 is not bad at all .
[Xperia Z3 General] guybrush2099:
As we said a lot posts ago, Note 4 shots a littler zoomed area. Mere image quality is a little cleaner in a sunny day, mostly using automatic mode, but photos (gamma, wide angle, details) are better with z3. It shots a wide panorama, a great tridimensional, deep, macro. Note 4 shots flatter. A cleaner image is a feature, but not the only one.

without detracting from the fact dark shots, with a bit of familiarity, are much better with a z3 (no superior auto,it's really bad and it needs luck)
[Xperia Z3 General] bencfc:
Its worth a try guys because Sony is not doing anything about it. theres around 1500 people signed the petition. why cant Sony improve there software algorithm then? the camera is shockingly bad theres pink hues in the centre of the photo indoors. People have been complaining about the pink spot since last year and they have not bothered to fix it. they just lazy and don't want to spend any more money on improving software.
[Xperia Z3 General] guybrush2099:
IMHO pink spots are an "hardware" problem due to faulty lens. 25mm lens in a little 20mpx sensor space...they are easily mounted misaligned...

I tried several z3...sometimes they have pink spots and/or blurred (wide!) portions of the taken shots..

sometimes lens are perfectly aligned and they haven't pink spot and images are really sharp, in every portion of the photos
[Xperia Z3 General] bencfc:
Thanks for the info my friend. Cant believe they can get away with selling a device which has hardware issue's. Things are just going from bad to worse I thought it may be fixable via ota update.
[Xperia Z3 General] guybrush2099:
FAULTY MISALIGNED LENS Z3 - blurred shot and there are interprating problems with the light. look at the left of faulty one (little trees, soil) and all the blurred portions...and the strange light on the tree, in the upper center

https://www.dropbox.com/s/sqsawe730yg0fpy/z3%20%289%29.JPG?dl=0

ALIGNED LENS - much sharper shot

https://www.dropbox.com/s/65bvyoc4mz2bxw5/DSC_0004z3%20%286%29.JPG?dl=0

other Z3 8MPX shots (ALIGNED lens) - white is perfect (look at the rope in the macro shot) and little trees and soil are really sharp again

https://www.dropbox.com/s/dt4k7v5zbnrtzk7/DSC_0019.JPG?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/tfdp82g8u75dazd/DSC_0023%20%282%29.JPG?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/gwcb3c48rpojcgl/DSC_0025.JPG?dl=0

other z3 FAULTY LENS - blurred and pinked macro shots! the center of the wood is pinked and shaked!

https://www.dropbox.com/s/vo5clubh1sd8qo7/ui.JPG?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/bvywa7wi6kdhwlu/DSC_0005.JPG?dl=0
[Xperia Z3 General] juanmaasecas:
I can't see the pics, error 403. Are you sure they're public?
[Xperia Z3 General] guybrush2099:
LOL try now and look at them in fullscreen mode
[Xperia Z3 General] online22naveen:
new shot

https://www.flickr.com/photos/online22naveen/16954584125/

i shot this pic from google camera.
[Xperia Z3 General] bencfc:
Yep exact same problem pink hue in the centre. Thanks for the comparison I know for sure now mines is faulty. now I got to send it to Sony and wait weeks on repair while I am paying a Contract
[Xperia Z3 General] SergeyKV:
Photo samples

Hello, guys.

Check out photos from my brand new Z3 with lollipop on board.

dropbox dot com/sh/pg8eldh7t1b0k3x/AAC9VqGiOiWaPc6e5qixdsesa?dl=0 (sorry for breaking the rules)

Actually It's the second Z3 I received from the seller...

Is it hardware or software? Anyway, dissapointed to death
[Xperia Z3 General] guybrush2099:
really bad.............

hardware (misaligned lens) issue
[Xperia Z3 General] Memnoch30:
So do I have to send it to Sony then?
[Xperia Z3 General] jbisana89:
Took these photos around 6 am outside the office:
[Xperia Z3 General] cadboncopyvw:
Background defocus - shame it got it a bit wrong round the left side with the whiskers and I cropped off part of his ear :silly:
[Xperia Z3 General] gantner.patrick1:
Hey guys do you have some tips /secrets how I can shoot better photos with the manual mode? Some settings? Thanks
[Xperia Z3 General] ktek:
This is starting to become pretty OT, but I want to clarify couple of things. First of all, I would post links to originals if I could but forum won't let me. They are for everyone to see on my blog, and have been since I took those photos.

0.5? Probably not. Somewhere between 2 and 6 Mpix with quality sensor? I would. 20 Mpix is just marketing. If you need to print pictures larger than standard paper sizes (up to A0) I'd suggest going medium format or film.

No, I don't. I'm totally fine with ~10 Mpix, and I wasn't expecting anything more as I know what happens when you cram excessive amount of pixels into small sensor. I've used 6 Mpix camera professionally, and when I had my Nikon D800 I don't think I ever used full 36 Mpix for anything other than testing out new lenses.

I disagree. When you downsize picture you can hide small imperfections, e.g. noise. I've yet to see front camera that isn't crap. It's about dynamic range, colors and noise.

Yes, that's pixel peeping. Some might like it, but in real world it rarely matters. I know it's cool to look at 1:1 crops and see how awesome your gear is, trust me. But what I want and need from my pocketable smartphone camera is ease of use, color rendering, dynamic range (ev handling) and quality of the compression algorithms. And I agree Sony doesn't manage with the latter one.

What? I'm not really a sony fanboy, no. I went from D800 to a7 and yes, I quite like my Sony. a7 has same problem with algorithms as z3. RAW is compressed and there's nothing you can do about it. However, this doesn't matter because otherwise a7 is awesome package. And z3 is an awesome package as well, I don't mind that 20 Mpix photos are far from perfect. I look devices as whole, that's what matters for me.

I totally agree, it's the software we are to blame. Maybe they'll fix it, maybe they won't. They haven't fixed a7's compressed raw problem yet.

Blurry corners looks like lens limitations as far as I can see. 20mm is pretty damn wide. Corner to corner sharp 20mm would be abnormally big (think about Nikon 14-24mm), or absurdly expensive. For smartphones I can guess ~30-40% bigger lens than it's now, if we keep aperture at f2.0.

If we continue this conversation I'm able to hit my post limit to share links, and when I get back home I have couple more photos to show you in full res glory. ;)

I'm not

praising

z3. I think it's great phone with great camera, but why I'm so fond of it is because it's so well rounded and balanced. Like an iPhone, but android. I didn't buy z3 for 20 Mpix camera and I knew full res pictures from 1/2.3" sensor would be somewhat crap. I think sony made right decision to encourage and support 8 Mpix mode instead.

But for know, I refrain myself from posting any more photos until I can do it properly. :)
[Xperia Z3 General] Chefproll:
Just a quick reply - I don't want to blow up this thread.

Have a look at this:

Nice picture, don't you agree ? - And - what's the use of it ? - Right nothing.

It's a picture I just took using the FRONT camera of my S4.

Try the same with the front camera of your Z3. :D

And now prepare for a real shock...

Lighting conditions are different for this collection because I took the Z3 and S4 pictures some days ago, now took the S4 frontcam picture just a few minutes ago. Different time of day, different light conditions. But SAME picture setting. I did NOT go closer for taking the S4 frontcam shot ! (I took a new picture for this comparison to achieve the same field of view as with the Z3 and S4 pictures, so the crop is not taken from the picture above.)

Note the leaves... Even the S4 FRONTCAMERA (2 MP) shows better details.

Any questions left ? - Same as above: If you don't believe me, hand me your eMail address, I'll send you the original photos.

Or just try for yourself.
[Xperia Z3 General] Askard91:
Comparison between Sony Xperia Z3 (20MP) and Sony DSC-W170 (10.1 MP)

Pictures of the Z3 are clearly sharper then of the compact camera.

Z3: 1drv.ms/1sC9ilk

W170: 1drv.ms/1sC8VHo
[Xperia Z3 General] kalo88:
Here is my contribution, taken VERY quickly... literally just opened the camera, hit the shutter and that was it.
[Xperia Z3 General] radicans:
In most cases, what you can see with "pixel peeping" rarely matters. But in the case with the Z3, I would argue it does indeed matter (in certain cases, see below). You don't really have to be peeping to see the obvious flaws. I compared photos of an identical scene with my Z3c and the galaxy note 3, and the difference in the detail is staggering! Even after downsizing to ~2MP, there was still evidence of oversharpening and compression in the Z3, and I would rate the GN3 image as the superior one!

The only case where the photos of the Z3 camera are watchable without noticing these artifacts, is unzoomed on the phone display.

Having said this, it seems the flaws in the Z3 camera are only obvious in certain cases, when there is lots of fine detail. They probably optimized the post processing for faces, as the most important thing today is to take great looking selfies :)
[Xperia Z3 General] Chefproll:
Here's the pictures radicans (post above) spoke about:
[Xperia Z3 General] Blaalad12:
Iam confused, Any pic i have taken with the z3 looks pretty good to me! Ok i only view the images on the display but so do 99% of people that own a camera phone! Its not a dslr for god sake, Your buying a PHONE not a DSLR! Based on the pics here the camera looks dirt to be honest but based on my own experience i have found the camera to be more then adequate! I dont understand however how sony could have nor why they have allegedly brought out an upgrade to the z2 with a downgraded camera lol
[Xperia Z3 General] ktek:
That indeed looks terrible. I've noticed similar behavior with mine, but not as bad as that.
[Xperia Z3 General] jamezr:
I was sooooo looking forward to getting the Z3...but all of these pictures really give me pause.

Question for some of you with less than stellar Z3 pictures.

Do you have an unlocked bootloader?

Are you using Google Now launcher?
[Xperia Z3 General] Chefproll:
I am buying a phone with a 20.7 MP camera, and get the performance of an 8 MP camera. Short and simple.

I have some problems understanding people not understanding the sense of a higher resolution. :)

a) If people prefer watching pictures on the tiny display, a 2 MP camera would be sufficient.

b) The sense in higher resolutions is as simple as abc: You got a picture, spot something interesting in the background (maybe a nice girl) and want to see more of that. So you zoom in. Possible with a high resolution, impossible with a low one. You've got a picture of Bangkok's skyline, want to see more details in the buildings, maybe read a writing on it: You zoom in, you see. You use a low resolution - you'll see just nothing. You take a photo of a flower with a bee on it. You zoom in - you see any details of that bee, even the tiny hair covering it's body. With a low resolution, you simply see nothing.

You don't need a DSLR, you just need a capable camera phone.

If Sony advertizes that 20.7 MP camera as hell, I expect to GET an 20.7 MP camera; not a camera just providing the quality of a simple 8 MP shooter - or a camera owned (in some situations, to be fair) by a 2 MP FRONT CAMERA.

You usually get what you pay for. This time, I paid for a 20.7 MP camera and actually got a camera of the 8 MP class. And that's NOT what I paid for.

If you buy a Porsche having 250 PS, you would speak up if it's performance is like a Daihatsu cuore, even if you don't need or use it's full power, right ?

But regarding that subzero camera, people just swallow the cold dish Sony served without any objection.

That's things I just don't understand. :)

---------- Post added at 10:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:08 PM ----------

No.

No.

That subzero camera performance is just a native" feature" of the Z3's software. Sony does not need additional software for delivering subpar performance. ;)
[Xperia Z3 General] radicans:
Well, one of the major reasons for me buying the Z3 was that Sony marketed it as having an exceptional camera. I'm a hobby photographer, and i appreciate quality. And a lot of my photos will be taken by my phone. So when I pay premium for promises of quality, and then get something which in many cases produce crap looking photos (when compared to similarly priced phones) unless I scale it down to 2-3MP, I get really disappointed and I feel like I have been cheated. Sure, it's a phone, but when they promise an exceptional camera, that's what I expect to get. Hell, even a half decent one would have been fine. But not something that delivers less than 1/5th of it's alleged resolution, in terms of quality.

Also, I feel like bringing this up, because I believe it can be fixed. As many have pointed out, it is not a hardware thing but the problem comes from the post processing software. Sony is never going to do anything about it unless we make a fuss!
[Xperia Z3 General] iBuzman:


---------- Post added at 02:14 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:12 PM ----------

So many words in this thread, so few pics..
[Xperia Z3 General] jamezr:
Those are awesome pictures!!! I wonder why the quality varies so much from so may people here?
[Xperia Z3 General] iBuzman:
And one more because I like this one..
[Xperia Z3 General] subhani:
I believe their marketing is around the low light capability. It REALLY is the best mobile for low light if you discount the 808. I am comparing with an iphone 6 and an LG G2, both rated for massive improvements in low light. Plus their ability to record underwater, of course may just be a gimmick. Let's not forget the brilliant slo mo controls that they baked into the camera app itself. Native YouTube upload and streaming. Some of these are UNIQUE to Sony. Additionally the camera allows more manual controls than MOST other android and apple devices.

I totally agree that the detail is REALLY lacking and the S4 camera really is better, better than the S5 and the Note 3 in fact. So I agree with you there and I hope Sony is paying attention to this thread.
[Xperia Z3 General] clAssymeerKat:
Settings used for these photos?
[Xperia Z3 General] dagrim1:
I understand your point and clearly for you this really is an issue. But to be honest, I never expected an actual excellent 20MP camera. I expected a camera with a 20MP option which I'd hardly ever use (because megapixels say nothing at all) and was going for decent 13MP and 8MP pictures. Using the 20MP to actually produce these in decent quality (and one of the main reasons going specifically for the Z3 was the better low-light performance which it does seem to do very fine).

And while there surely is still improvement for this, it is fine for that for me. It is fine on the litte (well, "little") screen of the phone but also on my 24" monitor or on my 37" telly. About 99.9% of the time that is exactly what people use this for, shooting a picture, perhaps making a print of it, viewing it on the phone, pc or telly.

Of course there are those who actually zoom, crop and edit but I think they are the exception. But yeah, for those this phone might be pretty disappointing.

They could do better indeed, but perhaps my expectations were just a bit more realistic and because that I'm actually pretty satisfied with the camera (and phone). Clearly for you this is not the case, but for me it is...
[Xperia Z3 General] Geminiu:
Nothing special... manual, 15,5M everyting else default.