yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Xperia Z3 General] Chefproll:
Hints: To be able to do a real comparison:

a) Photos need to be taken in a way that the field of view is the same. So If you've got a camera with a wider field of view (like the Z3), you need to get a bit closer to the motif till the same field of view is achieved. Ok, not possible with ready-made photos. But just remember this if you take your own comparison pictures. Otherwise the Z3 will have a worse start because the virtual distance to the motif is larger. That mistake was also made in that review with the airplanes.

b) The objects shown in the crops need to be of the same size.

Congrats for starting to do your own comparisons. :)

---------- Post added at 12:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:35 PM ----------

Just forget it... You can sell him a 40 MP camera with a real performance of 10 x 10 pixels - and he will still claims it's perfect. :D

Maybe his opinion changes if he finally owns a Z3 instead of copying "wisdom" from all the wrong places. ;)

Sorry, I just feel a bit mean today...

Here's a freehand shot of a Note 4 held against my LCD showing the same picture taken with the Z3. Same field of view, 20.7 MP with the Z3, 16 MP with the Note 4.

Picture is not perfect - but the results should be VERY clear.

To be fair: Crop is taken from the left hand border of the Z3's photo - extremely blurry there.

Same, but assembled with a picture viewer:

Sorry, mates... That's the bitter reality.

So SPEAK UP, don't accept that subzero camera quality. You paid for a 20.7 MP camera; but what did you get ? :/
[Xperia Z3 General] Chefproll:
Could have been me. Somewhere I wrote that it seems Sony just adopted the Z2 camera software without adapting it to the wider angle the Z3 has to offer.

That's my idea, too. If we get full size photos (which most Z3 owners are not willing to post because the faults become obvious), we almost always find extreme problems at the picture edges.

Same with my photos; there are ugly artifacts and not correctly focused areas just everywhere, but the picture's edges show the most problems.

That's what I fear, too.

But Sony is in a quite good position: Z3 owners do not WANT to realize the problems. Just see all that posts claiming "Nobody cares for details.", "Photos look great on the display", and so on.

Or just wait for reactions on my "dirty" comparison pictures showing the subzero Z3 camera quality in a merciless way. There won't be many, if at all. :)

Because owners look away as they don't WANT it to be that way. :)

So just a tiny fracture of users will complain, Sony can just ignore them.

And that's what they did, and that's what they will do again.

Just have a look at the pictures posted in this thread: Almost all of them are of a horrible quality you can even spot at the reduced sizes.

What's the reaction ? - "Ohhhh, the pictures are SO nice !" :D

As long as people pay for performance Sony advertizes but fails to deliver, as long as buyers won't speak up, there's just no reason for Sony to act. Users will accept the low quality anyway.
[Xperia Z3 General] subhani:
Thanks man. I totally agree with you. That Note 4 is a beast camera. And the Z3 accentuates that camera even more.

A. So I needed to have gone closer for the Z3? Those buildings were v far away. I would be required to get MUCH closer for that shot to get a similar scale to that of the iPhone. Is it done from pure estimation?

B. In any case, if you zoom in further on the Z3 shot until it matches the iPhone scale, you find that the Z3 EASILY has more details.

[MENTION=6079771]radicans[/MENTION] you are right it is over sharpened and colors are more contrasty than on the iPhone. But I disagree on detail. Just zoom in closer or bring the iPhone shot to match the scale of the Z3 and you'll see a LOT of detail lost in the iPhone shot. Especially on the crop of the boat, it looks seriously muddy. Additionally, if I do as chefproll suggests, i.e. get closer to the subject to make it a fairer comparison, then the Z3 would have an even stronger advantage in the detail dept.

Sent from Z3 using Tapatalk.
[Xperia Z3 General] radicans:
Of course you may disagree, but I disagree with your disagreement :) I'll try to show you why, by looking at a larger crop.

I took the liberty to scale down the 20MP Z3 shot to about 70% of it's original size, so it's to easier to compare with the ip6. There is no way there is 20MP worth of info in this shot anyway, so I don't think it changes anything. Otherwise we could scale up the ip6 photo, but this creates huge photos. Anyway, let me know if you think this scaling changes anything. We want to be fair!

Ok, here we go (Z3 on the left, ip6+ on the right):

The ip6 shot is a bit muddy in the detail as you say. It's not sharp if you zoom in. But if you look at how much actual information is in the ip6 shot, the color nuances on the ripples, patches of green/brown light reflecting from the bottom showing in the waves, it's alive and vivid.

In the Z3 shot on the other hand, the sharp bits are sharper. However, the sea surface is similarly colored all over, and I would say there is less detail on the ripples, it has a somewhat smoother apperance (of course, it might actually have been smoother at the time of the shot!). It looks like it's been blurred out, then put through a sharpening filter. The image has kinda of a dull appearance.

Well, that's how I see the photos anyway. Do you see what I mean, or maybe we just have different ways of looking at it :) To most people, I guess this will be well into splitting hairs territory! And I agree, it's definitely not a big difference, but the iP6+ comes out a clear winner in my eyes, in terms of producing a natural looking photo, with nice vivid information in it.

(Just a disclaimer here. It's a sea surface, temporary winds could have made the ip6 shot actually have more ripples, and therefore look more "alive". But it could just as well have been the Z3 processing eleminating noise, taking the ripple detail with it, just like it does with trees and leaves.)
[Xperia Z3 General] jhun80:
Why too many comments but very few pictures? I thought this is a "post your pics" thread????
[Xperia Z3 General] iBuzman:
unfortunately you are wrong.. it is a debate and/or discussion thread.

and the nature of the discussion would be dissuading others from posting their pics too imho

unlocked bootloader
[Xperia Z3 General] radicans:
I think there was an earlier attempt to separate this thread into pictures only, and discussions about pictures into another. But the moderators didn't agree, so now we have to keep discussions about pictures and pictures in the same thread. If you don't find the picture discussions interesting, just ignore. There are pictures posted at regular intervals anyways.
[Xperia Z3 General] Chefproll:
Not exactly... My intention is to make people post shots usable for comparison purposes.

I'd love to have separate pictures and discussion threads - but ask the moderators. :/

You images: Sorry, of no greater use. Too small to see any details - and differences between locked and unlocked bootloader show in the details (except night shots).

Please post pictures in their original size, please refrain from posting the same pictures again and again just to interrupt a running discussion. ;)
[Xperia Z3 General] iBuzman:
^^ they are all new pics of same of similar subjects.. (unless I stuffed up once or twice)

and the advice to refrain from posting the pics to break up an ongoing conversation proves my point. ?
[Xperia Z3 General] radicans:
Taken with 8MP high sensitivity scene mode. I found this mode to produce less digital artifacts than when using 8MP without scene mode (thanks [MENTION=3292308]subhani[/MENTION]!).

When shot with manual 8MP or manual 20MP, there was very noticeable noise fringing around the branches.
[Xperia Z3 General] subhani:
I totally agree, the iPhone seems to produce a more natural, more real and vivid image for some reason. I too incline towards that kind of image. But on detail ONLY (bar tree leaves), the Z3 registers more detail. This is only noticeable on zooming in heavily, which is not a real world scenario.

Sent from Z3 using Tapatalk.
[Xperia Z3 General] abhinav.tella:
Well the 20MP factor is of great help for zoom, I think thats one of the reasons for having it at 8MP on shots and the high MP count conpensates for the zoom.
[Xperia Z3 General] sefelizrc:
Max Iso test, completely dark!
[Xperia Z3 General] marc539:
Quick shot in traffic :rolleyes:
[Xperia Z3 General] Chefproll:
And they are utterly useless because they don't show any details.

You used titles like "unlocked bootloader" for the pictures, so it's about the differences between locked and unlocked bootloader.

Differences only show in the details - and that's exactly what you suppress by posting 0.5 MP pics with no details at all.

Why ?

Completely ignoring this

Not exactly... My intention is to make people post shots usable for comparison purposes.

I'd love to have separate pictures and discussion threads - but ask the moderators. :/

and your latest post showing two totally out-of-focus pictures, again with a tiny size, clearly show your intention.

Just face it: We got a horrible camera providing pictures without usable details and immense focus problems.

That's why you post dwarf-sized pictures to conceal the problems.

But even the thumbnail-sized pictures show the problems: Your first picture (that one with the tram) is totally blurred, in addition there's prominent chromatic aberration (color fringing) - just look at the tram power cables.

Pictures like that are like real pointers to the bad picture quality of our Z3's camera, proof of low quality.

I like that because this way more and more users and prospects can see what Sony really delivered.

And because you insist on posting pictures, I'll happily do:

Happy with that ? :D

(And the Z3 even had an advantage - far better lighting conditions; but didn't help.)
[Xperia Z3 General] iBuzman:
^^ I cant add anything constructive to that so best I go away..
[Xperia Z3 General] Chefproll:
Hello again ! ;)

It's not forensic at all... It's just about details - and it's details which all that megapixels are made for.

Just imagine a nice shot showing some people...

With lots of details, you simply zoom in and have a better look at that highly interesting woman in the background. You zoom in, you see her clearly.

With low details, that woman will become just a blur of pixels.

Another example: You shoot a skyline scene (like the ones subhani posted), spot an interesting building. With high details, you zoom in and read the name of the company owning that building. With low details, you see nothing.

Imagine a document you spot somewhere, take a shot of that document to read it at home (just did that two days ago, catalog page in a DIY store). No problem with high details - not readable with low details.

Or you want to pick the best section of a photo, you wish to crop the shot accordingly so ugly things at the borders are cut out. No quality loss with high details, but a blurry mess with low details.

That's what really matters for a lot of users.

Low resolution photos cannot show the differences, that's why I prefer higher resolution variants. These show what's really going on.

I know, I am a psychologist. It's just human nature. :)

Believe me: I tried HARD fumbling with the settings to make the Z3 pictures shine - because I bought the phone, expected the real deal, wished to send my old S4 into retirement.

I took photo after photo, I just WANTED the Z3 to be better, even went down to lower resolutions like 8 MP because I hoped for Sony using the megapixel overkill for improving smaller shots. And at all occasions, that old 13 MP Samsung just swallowed the Z3. :/

I was DEEPLY frustrated. And I felt betrayed by Sony; that's the bitter fact.

I know that things won't change if we don't speak up. If nobody laments, there's just no need for Sony to wake up.

That's why I rant, that's why I post that ugly comparison pictures like the one above.

To make users wake up, to make Sony wake up.

Chances are low; but if you don't try, chances are very close to zero.

Never thought anything different. :)

Oops ! You just edited your post !

Of course you contribute useful things - your posts just triggered new reactions and will make many readers think again. - So please don't give up. (But I guess your latest addition is meant in a humorous way.) :)
[Xperia Z3 General] iBuzman:
as an aside, two low light grainy low def pics ~ one before flashing (supposed) drm restore, one after..

before drm restore process

after

interesting.. jury still out on whether it works..

[MENTION=5838784]Chefproll[/MENTION] sry, last edit post was done before I knew youd quoted, thought I could sneak it out; I was a tad melodramatic upon rereading :D (but seeing you're now my new psych you already knew that hehe)
[Xperia Z3 General] radicans:
So you unlocked the bootloader (after backing up drm keys/TA partition?), then tried to restore the DRM keys to regain original capabilities?

The second pic definitely looks like it has less noise. That is interesting!

But the second pic also looks like it has slightly different lighting conditions, judging from the highlights on the shorts. Or maybe it just has a longer exposure?
[Xperia Z3 General] iBuzman:
[MENTION=6079771]radicans[/MENTION] I tried the drm restore out of curiosity rather than "unlock regret" ? seeing if Z3 supported..

this is the thread

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=2930672

[Xperia Z,Z1,Z2 Series][EXRxYKG]DRM FUNTION RESTORATION FOR UB | Reupdated 100% work

*p.s. (their spelling of function, not mine hehe)
[Xperia Z3 General] radicans:
Yeah, I understand. Sorry, I realise now that I made it sound like you unlocked because you didn't know better. Not what I meant :)

So is there any other test you can do to check if it was successful? Like check miracast, which people say goes away with the keys. (probably getting a little OT here...)
[Xperia Z3 General] iBuzman:
true (OT), clearaudio working and trackid ~ so maybe.. maybe a workaround for those who like unlocked bootloader (eg Im learning to build roms) and "semi restored" camera functionality (and Ill leave you guys to discuss what that's actually worth #trollface)
[Xperia Z3 General] dedei:
No one should base anything off TrackID. It's been DRM free for years now.
[Xperia Z3 General] doministry:
[MENTION=5838784]Chefproll[/MENTION]

Well. I see a very strange case here...

I don't know. I have Z2 and was able to make MANY great shots so far with it.

The deatil isn't EVERYTHING for a photographer!

I've seen amazing pictures and portraits with so little detail...

Photogaphy isn't only about detail count.

Just like the quality of the screen is not judged by looking at it

at the strange angle.

---------- Post added at 04:48 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:41 PM ----------

These comparative shots are bull.....p.

I don't believe it, sorry.
[Xperia Z3 General] Chefproll:
This already solves the riddle.

If you don't care for details, you cannot tell the difference.

And if you don't drink for a week, you'll die.

With other words: That's nothing new.

And just like the quality of a screen is not judged by looking at it from 10 meters away, but from a close distance.

And that's what we do with pictures.

Because you don't like the results, right ?

So you've got three options:

1) Seek for my other posts; somewhere I posted a link to the original photo.

2) Get an S4 or a Note 4 and try for yourself. Play with all your options, try 8 MP resolution, try anything. Except with low-light shots, your Z2/Z3 will never come even close to the Samsungs' picture quality.

3) Ignore 1) and 2) and tell yourself YOUR Z2/Z3 is the only one which does not have that problems. ;)

Another shock which you also may call bull...:

Z3 gets knocked out by the FRONT CAM. You'll also find the original front cam picture in the archive I posted somewhere in this thread. Or just tell me your eMail address via private mail, and I'll send it to you.
[Xperia Z3 General] doministry:
You post cr..p which is just not believable at all.

You show the device showing results which are beyond any existing tests or comparisons? Really?

Maybe the device should go to service?

Look at the simplest GSMArena comparison for detail Z3 vs Note 4 and stop trolling. Or look at Mobile Review or anywhere. Your "results" are just fake, man.

As for night shots... Yeah, you're funny.
[Xperia Z3 General] id3alistic:
I just need to find the right settings for pictures of people in dark places. SA actually does a pretty decent job, but it's inconsistent. Sometimes it comes out dark, sometimes it's nice and bright.
[Xperia Z3 General] iBuzman:
we will have android lollipop within days (aosp released) ~ raw processing :D
[Xperia Z3 General] sefelizrc:
I made an experiment with the Z3 camera, and I dint understand the result at all...

This is the same picture, one taked with the Sony camera app, and the other with the Google Camera App.

Both at 20,7Mpx, ISO auto, No HDR, no stabilization...

SONY CAMERA APP

Original size: http://i.imgur.com/Slf2Qz1.jpg

GOOGLE CAMERA APP

Original size: http://i.imgur.com/rFF8VbYl.jpg

They dont look the same, the one taked with google camera is brighter and has more information (8,4 vs 9,4 MB)

Exif info:

http://i.imgur.com/2zbQHxxl.jpg
[Xperia Z3 General] Chefproll:
May I correct you ? I do post things you do not want to believe.

That's quite a difference.

But you're right: I am posting crops, cropped pictures. I am quite sure that's what you meant by writing "cr..p", right ? ;)

Really. Because I know how it is; I am an author and official tester, too. So I know how the good results involved with some reviews surface.

Rule 1: Never post real bad things about a device if the client pays big bucks for advertizing or "forgets" to call the test device back. :)

Rule 2: Shoot comparison photos in a way preferring the device. E. g. shoot without having the bright sky in the frame (present in the pictures of all others contestants, just not in the frame of our device to prefer) to allow for a better exposure and white balance.

Rule 3: Post low-sized pictures concealing all the flaws.

"Private" reviews (like on Amazon): "I bought it, I paid big bucks. So it HAS TO BE the best! Period!"

So I do my own comparisons instead of believing all that fanboy "reviews".

You should try that, too. If you dare. ;)

Look at the blind test: http://www.phonearena.com/news/Sams...comparison-iPhone-6-is-distant-second_id61676 ;)

As soon as people don't know what's the Z3 pictures, it goes DOWN.

I do not see any private message asking for the original photos.

So you do not WANT to face reality.

It's far more convenient calling it a fake, isn't it ? - That way you don't need to face the problems.

Just do what I suggested: Get a S4 or a Note 4, do that comparison yourself. You'll get the same results.

Or: Dream on. :)

---------- Post added at 11:23 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:13 PM ----------

Different post-processing after the first post-processing run, it seems.

But both pictures have two faults in common...

Just look at the palm leafs right at the left hand picture border.

You'll notice that sharpness suddenly goes real bad. Middle and right hand leafs are in focus, leafs at the left margin are not.

In addition, there's quite prominent chromatic aberration (color fringing).

Same with both camera apps. :/
[Xperia Z3 General] sefelizrc:
So is just like if I take the same picture with the sony app and make post process with any app?

Maybe with Android 5.0 would be more options
[Xperia Z3 General] One Twelve:
Without originals this post should be removed !

That underlined bit shows the extent of the bias on display which has been the case since the start.

You fool no one
[Xperia Z3 General] doministry:
Ok, I'leave you with this crap than ;)

Trollers come, trollers go...
[Xperia Z3 General] plsdunbiteme:
To be fair, I don't see how he's trolling. Chefproll has contributed a good number of posts in this thread and posted some useful comparison pictures imo.

If you think different from him, then by all means challenge his methods of analysis with intelligence and counter evidence. Otherwise, it's totally unhelpful to everyone here in the thread to resort to name calling and sweeping statements.
[Xperia Z3 General] doministry:
Well. Fighting this kind of fake is very hard and pointless.

It's like proving that I'm not an elephant.

The simplest possible example.

Attached.

The link:

http://www.gsmarena.com/piccmp.php3?idType=1&idPhone1=6539&idPhone2=6434&idPhone3=6033
[Xperia Z3 General] subhani:
I haven't compared with the note 4 but I have compared with the iPhone 6+ and the iPhone produces better pictures OVERALL and better detail in SOME scenarios, like in night scenes. From the blind test done on PhoneArena it is clear the Note 4 trumps the iPhone, so I have no difficulty accepting chefproll pointing that out. The z3 camera betrays the 20mp moniker and touted camera capabilities. It is by no means a slouch though.

Sent from Z3 using Tapatalk.
[Xperia Z3 General] subhani:
pixel peeping for detail

THIS IS FOR ILLUSTRATION PURPOSES ONLY. No flaming for pixel peeping since i'm only making a point. A point about details/crispness.

Images below demonstrate that the Z3 shows more detail/less pixelation. The Z3 shots were all taken using the Better Camera app in auto mode, brilliant for detail on auto and great for HDR with DRO on. If I had known to go closer for the Z3 shots (as advised by Chefproll, to compensate for the wide angle lens?), then the Z3 would have had a fairer chance. They are crops from 2 scenes i've shared before. I didn't bother with gimp this time and just zoomed in using windows picture viewer until they matched scale and then screenshot it for brevity.

In the below image,

look at the knitting on his jumper,

the rail sticks along the railing/boundary that he is leaning on. Leaves even!

Below, I've thrown in a leaf shot for good measure.

This is where the Z3 is the weakest when it comes to details.

Below is a different scene.

The gap is MUCH smaller but still, look for

details/crispness in the crane and the leaves.

In this shot below, the dynamic range is failing the Z3 bigtime,

but staying on the topic of detail, look at the etching on the wooden banister,

the letters A and V are apparent.

Despite these details, the Z3 images had problems with color reproduction in general compared with the iPhone and the images just looked somewhat artificial/overprocessed. Indoors, there seems to be more noise and details plummet.

I think the Z3 exhibits more details in good outdoor conditions, better illumination in extreme low light, better stabilisation during video, better mic during video, better modes for things like background defocus/etc and a superior slo mo editor. I even found the Z3 better than the iPhone at reducing motion blur indoors on a moving object like my child for example, using different scene modes like sport, pet and anti motion blur but mostly using SPORT scene.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/gza8njsi9oc42pd/AADzLR69VjASG0TSIKsWqdMCa?dl=0
[Xperia Z3 General] abhinav.tella:
Nice comparison.