yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Xperia Z3 General] N77NS:
I think I got a good explanation, I used the other phones ,,, for now I'm happy with lg g3 ,,, who's never missed a picture at the moment when the device I want, before I tried z1 and no improvements have not done since then,

because I will never not to buy phones fields, if their trump card was the camera of 20MP,

*and it just does not provide the quality of what is expected of a normal customer, need to know and work with a camera, that I agree, but people are not interested today to opterećuiju with too many settings to get the picture ,,, it's just so, and glavnio people from sonj do not see it, and always making the same mistake, and release new models that do not bring anything new, except 3-4 applications
[Xperia Z3 General] zodiac100:
Use iso 50 for all daylight shots. Adjust white balance to daylight and drop exposure a bit of needed. White balance and exposure were wrong in your photos hence the pale colours and too bright scenes
[Xperia Z3 General] zodiac100:
Here's an example of what I'm saying. Three photos. The first at iso 800 to show the real scene and lighting conditions.

The second with flash at iso 50.

The third was lowlight. Superior auto. Iso 6400.

For me I'd much prefer to use the flash photo any day over the night vision photo. And trust me the night vision photo actually looks better here because XDA compression hides a lot of the noise. The real photo is horrendous as far as noise goes!
[Xperia Z3 General] Commando_ShamZz:
Hello everyone !

As you all know the Z3 has a 20.7 mpx camera :D

But with the stock camera and superio. Auto the images are just not satisfactory ( personally think so :rolleyes: )

And if we get manual control support in our phones

Then we could be getting better images :D

More controls and all :D

So i am just asking if someone could create a thread to like make a petition ( like LG users )

so as to ask sony implement the new camera2 API :D
[Xperia Z3 General] marcolero:
Very good idea!
[Xperia Z3 General] zodiac100:
For me I think what's important is the addition of OIS. Stabilisation of such large photos is the xperia cameras main problem. That's why the auto mode uses high iso. To ensure focus in lower lighting conditions.

With OIS, Sony devs would be more inclined to programming the auto mode to be more conservative with iso and hence produce better image quality.

I have no interest in raw photos. Shutter speed and manual focus are for artistic shots like light trails at night or background blur. They won't improve image quality.

For such small mobile sensors low Iso is the key to image quality and as such OIS will do a lot to help with that and focusing. A narrower angled sharper lens would also be welcomed. The wide field of view makes it harder for the sensors to resolve fine details especially with distant subjects.

As it stands today, you either use high iso to get focused images more often than not but end up with very noisy images especially at pixel level or you drop the iso for cleaner images but then the sensor becomes more sensitive to hand shakes and movement resulting in too many blurry low light photos.

A more reasonable lens and OIS is the way forward for Sony. The sensor is one of the best in mobile. Very good performance with low iso. Stabilisation is the main problem!
[Xperia Z3 General] radicans:
Raw will most certainly produce photos with better quality, if you give them the post treatment, which you must.

But to make the most out of what currently is, the other factors you mention are correct, of course.
[Xperia Z3 General] zodiac100:
Raw photos do need processing though. Something I'm not really into so it's not something I'm keen on.

I don't have much issue with the processing that sony does. I think it's very light as it is which is good. What I look forward to are hardware additions like OIS and the use of a sharper narrower lens!
[Xperia Z3 General] CuBG:
I've made that one at 8MPx Landscape Mode ISO 50 :)
[Xperia Z3 General] Commando_ShamZz:
What you were saying is absolutely true

Raw is something people who would want to use manual camera use

But most people use their phone on auto as moments you want to capture may not always give you time to check manual settings

I personally am very very very much dissapointed with my z3

I bought it even if it was too damn expensive

I thought i would be buying one of the best flagships at the moment

And thought i would be getting one of the best cameras ( as Sony was boasting a lot about that z3 camera , G lens, exmor sensors and all ) but was dissapointed with The VERY FIRST PHOTO i took with it. First thought it was manufacturers defect but then saw other people with same problem. I tried all sorts of apps all sorts of settings to try make my pictures better. I thought the lollipop update would bring some good news but huh. Anyone knows how to make sony make the camera ? BECAUSE ITS A SHAME FOR SONY TO MAKE SUCH BAD FLAGSHIPS !

I took my Xperia P out of my drawer and it takes better images than my Z3 at 8mpx.

I am sooo much starting to regret my choice.
[Xperia Z3 General] zodiac100:
Play around with iso settings. Always go as low as possible. The xperia p software is more conservative with iso.

You see iso is the setting that makes the biggest impact on image quality. It can be the difference between clean clear images and noisy dirty ones.

White balance is another. Well so too exposure.

I know you'd rather use it in auto but it's auto mode and settings are crap for anything other than daylight shots and even then only for landscape photography because it uses the landscape scene mode which is contrasty and saturated. In other respects, it gets the white balance wrong opting for very cold colours.

For outdoor daylight shots , use iso 50 and white balance daylight or cloudy and drop exposure if the sky looks blown out.

For indoor shots under natural light coming from say a window use iso 50 if the light is strong and 100 to 200 if dimer. White balance cloudy.

For night photos again iso range from 100 to 400 but avoid going beyond 400.

In short, always start your set up with iso starting with the lowest and increasing if the scene looks too dark until you find the option that's adequate.

Then adjust white balance. It goes from auto (coldest colour temperature) to cloudy (warmest).

Then adjust exposure if aspects of the scene look blown out.

I'm sorry to say it, but quick photography with the camera will result in crap photos.

Sony's auto modes are doggy to say the very least. Avoid them or sell the phone and get an iPhone, Samsung or LG device. They put more effort into their auto software. Also avoid 8mp. That's manual and auto. There's way too much jpeg compression going on there!
[Xperia Z3 General] Commando_ShamZz:
well i love the phone a lot

its only the camera that anoys me

Do you think a mod like the famous cybershot would do the trick ?
[Xperia Z3 General] zodiac100:
Unless that mode completely replaces Sony's camera software with something else, I don't think so.

You're best bet is to use the camera manually. Not ideal for quick snaps but you'll be surprised how easy and quick it is to change settings manually.

Let's face it how many times do you find yourself in situations where you don't have a few seconds to take the shot. Very rarely I put it to you.

People use the term quick snaps when what they really mean is convenient no hassle snaps lol!
[Xperia Z3 General] Commando_ShamZz:
Lol :')

I use Dlsr camera Pro ( support dev ! :'D )

I get awesome pictures :)

But i am a student

And in class i dont have time to change iso and all

I get CRAPPY images :\

Otherwise i get good shots when i take my time with the camera :)

i will upload some pictures on my drive and post the link :)
[Xperia Z3 General] zodiac100:
Well there you have it. You see I gave up on the auto mode long ago. Even before the xperia s lol.

I've been a manual mode user ever since so I don't get as frustrated as others do here.

My frustrations are with the limitations Sony's imposed on the camera even in manual mode.

I'd like to be able to take night photos with iso 50 and then compensate by increasing exposure but the shutter speed limitations don't allow for that.

The frustrating thing is when you use night scene mode, the camera does exactly that but won't allow me to do this manually. Sony eh! Frustration frustration frustration. They certainly know how to do that to their users lol
[Xperia Z3 General] Commando_ShamZz:
Lol :")

with the camera2 api it would have been possible

But sony ? You said it: " Eh" xD lol
[Xperia Z3 General] zodiac100:
I think they want to limit the output of the mobile cameras so they don't rival their dedicated point and shoot compact cameras.
[Xperia Z3 General] Commando_ShamZz:
If only we could bypass their limitations

Our phones would be like gods in front of others lol :')
[Xperia Z3 General] zodiac100:
Indeed! The sensor is the best performer outside of the lumia 1020 and that only beats it for resolution. The iso preformance of the Sony sensor is excellent. It could do with OIS to help stabilise it's 20.7mp output.

Sony's software inadequacies and limitations are its biggest hindrances!
[Xperia Z3 General] Commando_ShamZz:
Our hopes are Sony devs and Xda Devs !

hope they fix that soon :\

btw Check my pics taken by my z3

hope you like it :) https://drive.google.com/folder/d/0BznsMByUNK3nMDJPNWtyTVpGM2s/edit
[Xperia Z3 General] zodiac100:
Great shots but all macro. Would have been good to see some scenic and landscape shots as well as lowlight. Those are the most challenging shots lol
[Xperia Z3 General] Commando_ShamZz:
Its just that i love macro shots :')

Well i have upload 2 or 3 pics scene :P

I took them on superio auto if i remember :o

You can check them when you have time :)
[Xperia Z3 General] zodiac100:
The macros are all excellent. Auto or manual? Good colours.

The first scenic shot is good. Superior auto if that's what you used picked landscape mode so colours are warm vibrant and pleasing. Shot would have been more detailed at full res though.

The second scenic shot could have done with exposure control to balance out the sky a bit more. A bit too hazy!

But very good photos in general. Macro shots are beautiful but I like to really stress test the cameras by shooting long distance and lowlight shots. It's the best way to discover the cameras real capabilities I think.
[Xperia Z3 General] Commando_ShamZz:
The macro shots are manual 20.7 mpx using the dslr app :)

These are the only two scene shots i have taken :v

Will try take other tomorrow

As i am going to the garden of my town

gonna take lots of pics and upload them

Will send you the link :)

Gonna stress test mine tomorrow 3:) lol
[Xperia Z3 General] zodiac100:
Indoor,lowlight and night shots are very challenging as well as scenes where there's a lot going on like a busy Street with loads of buildings, people and vehicles moving around.

That'd give you a good idea of the cameras low iso performance as well as focusing when there are moving objects like cars and people in the shot.

Don't forget always be as conservative with iso as the scene would permit. Don't use iso auto especially in lower lighting conditions and indoors
[Xperia Z3 General] radicans:
Unfortunately, jpeg compression has nothing to do with the poor quality here. Sony's camera app saves at 85% quality. Other apps lets you save at 100%. I have tried and compared, and there is no improvement with 100% jpeg quality. What you see is the result of aggressive noise reduction (and other processing).
[Xperia Z3 General] zodiac100:
The 8mp images are less than 2mb in size. I think that's more that 85%.

The Sony pictures are routinely criticised for being noisy so I don't see much aggressive noise reduction going on. That's an LG thing!

For me stabilisation is the main problem hence the need for high iso use to ensure focus.

Chromatic noise might be more visible but it doesn't do as much damage to details as luminescent noise does. Sony might have eradicated chromatic noise but there is still a very high level of residual luminescence especially at iso 400 and above.

Solution being to use lower values but the trouble with that is the sensor becomes very sensitive to movement and shakes in anything but optimal lighting conditions.

Better stabilisation = lower iso = less luminescent noise = clearer cleaner more detailed images.

Plus compression does make a difference especially with fine details. 85% might not show much difference at even 80% crops but at 100%, you'll notice the difference!

---------- Post added at 09:53 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:10 AM ----------

Tried both camera fv 5 and dslr camera Pro and neither allow you to control iso or metering.

Not useful for me without those options
[Xperia Z3 General] Commando_ShamZz:
Camera fv5 allows using iso from 50 to 3200 :P
[Xperia Z3 General] zodiac100:
It allows you to select iso but takes the picture with its own value. It's using iso auto more than anything else.
[Xperia Z3 General] Commando_ShamZz:
I dont use it

I use dslr :)

It does not allow iso control

But most of pictures i take gets an iso of 50 :)
[Xperia Z3 General] juanmaasecas:
No, even when you change the iso in camera fv5 app, it doesn't work and it's always auto.
[Xperia Z3 General] Commando_ShamZz:
Am feeling so dumb lol :')
[Xperia Z3 General] zodiac100:
That's because you take mostly daylight so it uses low iso. Indoors and night shots will be much much higher. I already tested it
[Xperia Z3 General] Commando_ShamZz:
SOLUTION IS ONLY IMPLEMENTATION OF CAMERA2 API

can someone give me the link to contact sony ?
[Xperia Z3 General] zodiac100:
Indeed but they're never going to do that. Not Sony. Not Sony at all. Not in a million years!!!
[Xperia Z3 General] radicans:
It doesn't work that way. The percentage is an arbitrary measure on the quality of the photo, it does not relate linearly to file size.

The default camera parameters are set to 85% jpeg quality (accessible only through API, not the app), I have checked.

Probably because people shoot at too high ISO (with auto settings), and that most of the noise removal is only done to chromatic noise.

Agree. Although I think that luma noise is much favorable to chroma noise, but that's just personal opinion.

The fine details are already obliterated by sony's noise removal/processing. They try to get detail back by applying a ridiculous amount of sharpening, as can be seen be the strong halos and "ringing" in medium to high contrast areas. Someone in here posted an uncompressed Z3 photo (png) from a third party app a while ago. At 100% crop (1:1 pixels), I could pull the jpeg quality down to about 40% (if I remember correctly) before the jpeg compression artifacts was *starting* to become visible. That's how much the Sony processing algorithms cripple the photo!

---------- Post added at 11:20 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:13 AM ----------

Good luck with that...

Any company who also makes digital cameras will likely not implement RAW in phones, because it will then compete with their other products.
[Xperia Z3 General] Silverdace:
Good luck with that...

Any company who also makes digital cameras will likely not implement RAW in phones, because it will then compete with their other products.[/QUOTE]

I've already made multiple digital attempts to contact them.

I think a personal posted letter with photos to head of Xperia is only way to get attention.

However surely Sony aren't that stupid that they would sacrifice the smartphone market for their point and shoots?

It's like Kodak all over again. They pioneered digital photography then decided to stick to film. Idiots.

Point and shoots are a similar dying market, destined for niche use. If Sony don't cannibalize their sales then someone else will. They must know that.

I guess big companies have a lot of inertia and resistance to change so struggle sometimes to adapt. E.g. Microsoft have only just started to pivot.

It's possible the cybershot division purposely handicapped the Xperia range as they are the ones who designed the bionz chip and algorithms. They have a vested interest in ensuring the Xperia camera's don't succeed.

The marketing hype for the z series trumpeted how they used the cybershot team's expertise in the camera design and software. The Xperia team may actually be clueless that they've been sabotaged. It would be hard to believe that your own colleagues would hurt you.

Conspiracy theories of course though.

It is however hard to explain the issues the Xperia cameras have had without suspecting some purposeful handicapping of the software.

As you and many users have identified, the Xperia range has a bunch of software issues I.e. Auto white balance, iso and exposure along with the terrible chroma blurring followed by over sharpening.

There's either software engineers involved who aren't very good or they've purposely handicapped the devices for some reason.

I suspect the latter but only Sony knows.

Didn't those hackers get into Sony? Or was that just Sony pictures? Maybe there's some comms in that stuff that explains this.
[Xperia Z3 General] Commando_ShamZz:
Hey :)

I have taken some outdoor shot

https://drive.google.com/drive/u/0/...nsMByUNK3nX0lZMmNWTXlnQk0?sort=13&direction=a

And THEY ARE AWFUL ! :C
[Xperia Z3 General] Silverdace:
Macros come out pretty good most of the time
[Xperia Z3 General] Silverdace:
Just a note that camera fv5 is helpful for video recording as it lets you correct the white balance.
[Xperia Z3 General] zodiac100:
I do agree there seems to be some tension within Sony.

There are deliberate attempts not to sabotage the mobile cameras but to limit their capabilities so as not to cannibalise the compact point and shoot market.

I also agree that just like hand held gaming platforms, that segment is a dying horse and Sony needs to face up to that.

Sony seems to be trying to avoid seeing smartphones doing to the point and shoot cameras what they did to the psp and others.

It's a losing battle and considering they're actually the ones best placed to take advantage of this change from point and shoots to mobile cameras, it's just ridiculous to see this sort of attitude from Sony.

Businesses struggle when they either don't have a good enough or competitive product or when they loose touch with their market.

Sony's problem is more the latter but it also leads to them putting out devices that aren't as competitive as they could be.

Sony has all the ingredients to have the best cameraphones but they're hell bent on propping up the dying point and shoot segment.

They'll eventually realise this. Trouble is Nokia and Samsung might by then have opened up a lead that they'll struggle to close.

They need to get ahead of the game for once instead of always playing catch up.

That's the story of Sony mobile and that's right from the days with Ericsson.

Took too many years to move to ips lcd technology.

It's taken way too long to implement OIS despite the fact the technology is almost 5 years old.

Waterproofing is the only thing they've led on but that's more of an insurance policy for consumers than a major selling point.

For me, Sony mobile need to shed a lot of its executive team. They're out of touch. Time for new blood.
[Xperia Z3 General] meteor999:
Its an absolute joke that other manufacturers use the Sony sensor yet those of us with the Z3 dont have the software capabilities to take shots as good as the rivals, sony really need to take their head out of the sand

http://appleinsider.com/articles/15...ra-sensor-production-for-iphone-other-devices
[Xperia Z3 General] jonmorris:
It's not a conspiracy theory. I remember having discussions with Sony Ericsson over many years and it was made quite clear to me that certain people within Sony did not want Sony Ericsson to reduce sales elsewhere in the business. Long before the 'One Sony' concept, it was well known that Sony divisions saw each other as the enemy, and likely still do regardless of the hard work to get them working together for the 'greater good'.

This saw Sony Ericsson end up reducing the Walkman branding to only low-end devices, and Cyber-shot was removed completely. Sure, we now have Walkman as a brand on the media player, but that's it. There's still no Cyber-shot logo on the camera, and that's very deliberate.

In terms of gaming, it wasn't expected that a phone or tablet would stop people buying a Playstation. Playstation Mobile intended to get people buying a PS for the main games, and use the phone for other stuff - and then later on, it became about using Xperia to stream PS games. That sort of makes sense, and gives Sony an edge.

On the music/video side, you have the Sony services - except the music thing didn't work out (shocking really, given Sony's influence/power in the music industry) and I can't imagine many people buy films via Sony's oddly named Video Unlimited (it's not, there's no monthly sub for unlimited film viewing!).

Finally, using brands like Bravia and so on are fine, as nobody would buy a phone and not a TV, as they might buy an Xperia and not a standalone camera.

I think there's good reason for Sony to hold Xperia devices back a bit as the company really doesn't seem to appreciate that others will just come in and take their market even if Sony doesn't.
[Xperia Z3 General] Soured Lie:
Maybe I'm crazy... I had the note 4 from tmo. I bought it specifically for the camera. I have to say I was not impressed. I kept getting noise in my pics regardless of whether they were dark or not. Especially with indoor well light shots. When zoomed in the colors were smudgy and lacked detail I was looking for. There was no manual control whatsoever. The colors were over exaggerated to play up the sensor. This makes post processing a pain if you want true to life color. They did not look like the scene whatsoever. This irritated me to point of returning the phone. I paid a 50 dollar restocking fee just so I could switch to the Z3.

So to be clear I don't want to present a bias towards sony. I don't care what brand it is so long as it does what I want. The note 4 was an extremely nice phone, but in my subjective opinion the camera didn't cut it. I think my opinion is pretty valid as I have worked for over 8 years doing post editing for multimedia in a wide variety of formats though I am no photographer.

Here are my results with the Z3 just shooting around the house non processed: https://flic.kr/s/aHska3NGCn

Honestly the level of detail I get from the z3 far surpassed the note 4 for me. Maybe a lot of you guys don't know how to use a camera? I think this phone is way better in the hands of those who can make use of it. I also had a search on Flicker for z3 and pulled some very amazing photos that also in my opinion surpassed the galaxy series (though I have played with the s6 and s6 edge and THAT camera is f*cking fantastic!). I have to say I am not impressed at all with superior auto mode mY be that is why people are getting such poor results. I just use 20.1 4/3 and assign volume rocker to iso so that I may work on the fly.
[Xperia Z3 General] plemen:
Can you tell me how to assign volume rocker to iso?

I'm generally happy with manual mode other than losing image stabilisant when I change iso.
[Xperia Z3 General] Soured Lie:
You can set volume rocker to ISO in camera fv5. It will go to auto if you go above 800 I believe though.
[Xperia Z3 General] plemen:
Hmm... I was under the impression that the stock app gave you the most control over settings. Do you find Camera fv5 takes as good/better pictures than stock?
[Xperia Z3 General] Soured Lie:
I think it does a better job of using focus and white balancing. I prefer the pictures I get from cfv5 generally. However I use both as much as the other. I would say cfv5 gives you way more control when you go above 8 mp.
[Xperia Z3 General] funky0308:
Sony just can't do something like this

I have Z3 and I love that device but Note4 has 10 times better camera algorithms..

I'll upload this pict to dropbox for you to see it in a full res.

It was taken from car at the 110 km/h at 7P.M (low light conditions)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/j8k7qtah59z6s5e/20150409_190731.jpg?dl=0