yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Xperia Z3 General] radicans:
Shooting charts is a pretty inadequate way to test a camera IMO. Apart from being as far away from a real world scenario as possible, the light has a very low dynamic range, and it's only 2d so if the focus isn't exactly right, then the whole thing is off. Here is a crop from another chart from the same link, where the Note 4 does better. Though this doesn't prove anything about which phone is better, just that GSMarena haven't gotten the focusing right when doing the tests, and so can't be trusted.

---------- Post added at 10:47 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:23 AM ----------

As he does point out, the crop is taken in an unfavorable part of the image, so maybe it could be fairer in a general sense. But, the blurry edges of the Z3 are there, and it is a real problem, so it's informative to show just how bad it can be. Some phones seem to be worse than others though.

For a premium phone the Z3 camera has a bunch of serious flaws, which can not be found in the competing phones. The ones being fooled are the people who buy this phone expecting the camera performance they actually paid for, like myself.
[Xperia Z3 General] id3alistic:
I thought the camera app doesn't affect the photo quality? So does it matter if we use stock camera app or a different one?
[Xperia Z3 General] jhun80:
[IMG="a leaf with raindrops on the windshield"]https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/320xq90/r/674/zIeHkt.jpg[/IMG]

Cropped, while driving in i495
[Xperia Z3 General] KoningPaulus:
So, what are your overall conclusions?

Which app takes the best photo's in auto-mode?

Because most people simply wanna take a quick pic, without adjusting the manual settings.:p
[Xperia Z3 General] radicans:
Technically, they *should* all be the same. In the API, which all photo apps must comply with, there is nothing that can be done to differentiate them. You request an image from the camera, based on manual or auto. The auto settings are handled by the camera driver, nothing you or the programmer has any control over. You then get the image, processed and ready to save.

The difference observed with different apps is probably the auto mode behaving a bit randomly. A higher ISO setting will produce a greener photo for example, making it look different (I have bracketed the entire range of manual ISO settings for a controlled scene, and it goes from neutral in color (ISO 50 up to 400) to very pronounced green (ISO 3200), been meaning to post this, but forgot!).

My guess is that using the same app to take a few pictures in a row would produce the same variation as shooting with different apps.
[Xperia Z3 General] doministry:
Well. The chart may be NOT that indicative.

But is shows something here, that the total blurring of the edges is not here, at least nowhere near the level the guy is posting. GsmArena got it wrong? Okay, but than maybe the guy was wrong as well.

And also from all of the photos taken I've seen all around, there is no photo with such crazy artifacts unless the camera is broken, or the photographer has no clue at all.

BTW you just posted a crop from Z3 Compact, it's a different phone.

In the end I am not saying Z3 is perfect because there isn't perfect camera out there, especially in the mobile field! Even the most profi cameras go forward and are beeing improved.

I just say, this negativity is wrong and those random results say less about the camera than all those imperfect tests.

BTW web voting for the best image? Give me a break. On MobileReview people voted for heavy HDR image over all the more natural shots, it says nothing.
[Xperia Z3 General] radicans:
The edge blurring seems to be an intermittent problem. But it is a recurring observation and not a random one off defect. Here it is very obvious on the whole left side. Check the reddish tree and the ground.

http://mediafiles.allaboutwindowsphone.com/z3/lightning-z3.JPG

as opposed to the comparison camera which shows a little edge blur, but not nearly as much:

http://mediafiles.allaboutwindowsphone.com/z3/lightning-1020.jpg

or the third camera which shows no blur at all:

http://mediafiles.allaboutwindowsphone.com/z3/lightning-1520.jpg

Of course, no camera is perfect, but for a premium phone like the Z3 to have so many flaws in its camera is exceptionally poor. If anything, in most tests I've seen, the Z3 is consistently behind its competition. It's not negativity, it's a fair observation. Let's just hope that Sony fixes the issues for the coming Android 5.0, and/or gives us RAW support so we can do our own processing.
[Xperia Z3 General] Chefproll:
I'd stick with the original camera app. Other apps like Google Camera use the same data, but then apply some effects - same as you could achieve with the Google photo editor or with other photo editors at your PC.

So the output of the original Sony camera app is always the "source" which other apps just apply effects on.

Output may look different, but won't remove the faults as they're in the "source" (just don't want to call that "raw data", because it's everything else but raw).

I GUESS that aggressive statement of "One Twelve" (taken from radicans post) referred to my post - I cannot see his posts as he's the sole entry in my ignore list.

But as he can see my posts: You had been invited to download the original pictures in an archive (just browse a little back in this thread) - as I invited "doministry" right yesterday. Both of you were NOT interested in getting the original pictures.

So what's the point of your rant ? Buy a Z3, see for yourself. It's of no greater use if you talk about a hardware you don't own yourself.

All that photos you saw all around were shrinked versions, not original size. Of course the flaws vanish if you decrease a picture's size to the right extend. That's why you seldomly see full size Z3 photos - because proud owners wish to conceal the flaws.

(This is a fact I always wonder why it needs to be explained to people; it's just simple logic, no rocket science.)

Now we're gonna make an experiment - I am sure you will ignore this; you just need to. :D

Go outside, take a photo with your Z2/Z3, choose a motif like a garden, a park, something with lots of shades of green.

Transfer the picture to your computer, view it in FULL SIZE (maximum zoom), take special care of the picture's edges.

(If you use a Z2, the blurred picture edges won't be as prominent as with the Z3. I guess it's the wide angle lens of the Z3 causing the greatest part of the blur problem. Seems like Sony just used the Z2 camera software without adapting it to the different lens of the Z3.)

THEN speak again. :)

I know I need to repeat it: Shrinked photos do NOT show that flaws as prominently as pictures viewed in full size.

If I shrink my Z3, S4 and Note 4 pictures to 0.5 MP, they'll just look the same. NO use for any comparison.

That being said: TRY FOR YOURSELF instead of calling others liars.

We'll talk again after you did that little experiment. Till then, I will refrain from reacting on your future posts.

But beware: If you tell us your pictures don't show the flaws, I'll ask you to post the original files. :)

Ah, almost forgot... Please learn how to quote, stop that full quotes spamming the thread even more.

Moderators: Any chance of opening a separate discussion thread concentrating on the flaws ? - It really wouldn't be the worst idea... :/
[Xperia Z3 General] subhani:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/gza8njsi9...IKsWqdMCa?dl=0 [MENTION=5838784]Chefproll[/MENTION] aren't dropbox uploads full size/res images? I know you may not be referring to me but just wanna be sure.

Okay, so below are lazy crops from the same two outdoor scenes as before, except this time they are crops of the extremities of each image. This is to address concerns of blurring at the edges of the shot.

1. I haven't labeled them so you guys figure out which is which. Z3 vs iP6+... Clue: look for 'magenta' hue

2. The crops don't appear to be of the exact same position. This is because the Z3 captures more of the scene top/bottom and right/left. I did my best to match them as closely as possible, without deviating from the edges of the image.

3. What do you guys think? I'll give my subjective opinion in the late evening.
[Xperia Z3 General] itsjustJOH:
Obviously Z3 on the right. I just wonder what are those black speckles, kinda like very short and thin vertical/horizontal lines that is always there in the Z3 photos even in those bright clear skies, which were more prominent when the Z1 first came out. Are those what you call luminance noise?
[Xperia Z3 General] radicans:
I know you know that I know which ones are which :D

I think the ip6 looks surprisingly blurry, and the Z3 looks surprisingly noisy! (still think the water looks way better on ip6, though!)

But the ip6 is only 8MP right? Did you zoom in to closer than 1:1 crop to make it the same apparent size as the 20MP Z3 photo? That would explain some blurryness.

But I don't see much edge blur in the Z3 photos. Congrats, you have one of the good ones! I can see it on some of my shots, but not as bad as in the photos I linked to a few posts ago. I wonder if it is more or less apparent depending on focal distance?

---------- Post added at 06:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:49 PM ----------

They are most likely a result of the "image-enhancing" processing in the Z3 hardware. And they ruin just about every photo!

Luminance noise would be more regular and not have this directional look. Would take regular luma noise or a slightly more blurry picture over that cross-hatch eye sore any day!
[Xperia Z3 General] oryan_dunn:
Unless you have a very good quality wide angle lens, you will get distortion at the edges; that applies to DSLR lenses as well.

By looking at your sig, you really like Sony phones, but it's quite clear the camera on the Z3 has issues.
[Xperia Z3 General] itsjustJOH:
I actually just visited the Z1 Camera thread and it really is much more prominent, though I must say despite of this bad processing there are a lot of very, very good shots there now (used to be a lot of bad photos). And it seems it's better in macro than Z3 (or is it because I don't see much photos to compare with here :D), does it have something to do with the wider lens? It does state in the whitepaper that the minimum focus distance for the Z3 is 120 mm compared to the Z2 and Z1 (I guess) with 100 mm.

Edit: It does seem that the current Z1 software looks better in processing, if it weren't for those "cross-hatch" thingies and the random blurring in some areas.
[Xperia Z3 General] subhani:
So you guys are right. The ones on the right are from the z3 EXCEPT for the 4th image of the bench. The one on the left on the 4th image is the z3.

On the whole, the z3 presents greater details in good lighting outdoors. The issues it does have is color reproduction, pink hue, artificial overprocessing. The overprocessing is an advantage for greater detail and contrast but adds noise/graininess, often impairing shots of leaves/trees and adding sharp edges to moving water.

The Z3 struggles badly indoors and in warm natural lighting when it comes to detail and here the iP6+ surpasses the Sony. Despite this, using the correct settings, the Sony does better to capture moving images using the correct modes.

In extreme low light, well the Sony outperforms the iPhone but not by a massive lead. Color reproduction is even worse, making images look more yelow/green/orange. YMMV.
[Xperia Z3 General] Mity85:
What devices did you use for the 2nd and 3rd pics? Nokia 1020 & 1520?
[Xperia Z3 General] radicans:
Yup, from a review. Just to demonstrate the edge blur.
[Xperia Z3 General] CandyAndy:
That's BS, I ditched my lovely m8 because I wanted a better camera and what I got is even worse camera. There is no excuses, z3 takes worse pictures every time. Also the camera software is so bad that I have noticed when I previously happily were snapping photos every day almost the last time I even tried was one week ago and I ended up deleting the pictures since they were all so bad.

I am one hugely disappointed customer here and I am really worried that it's hardware and not software problem.
[Xperia Z3 General] mocsharp:
Try tweeting to@xperia and complain and hopefully they will fix it.

Edit: even my HTC One m7 takes better pictures than z3.
[Xperia Z3 General] kaineshutler:
Beachy Head

Two photos taken up at Beachy Head in East Sussex, UK. Both edited with VSCO Cam right on the Z3.
[Xperia Z3 General] radicans:
ISO bracket

Shot a closeup scene with all the possible manual ISO settings. The photo goes quite green with the higher ISO values. I first thought it was related to the very short exposure time, seeing as it's daytime and high ISO, but I just tried it again taking photos of my desk in dim light, and the high ISO green tint remains. Is this per normal in a small phone camera sensor, or Z3 specific?
[Xperia Z3 General] dagrim1:
Or people don't see it as black and white or actually don't care and mind as much... I mean I mainly see you slamming the z3 camera as if it's your dayjob.

I for one am slightly disappointed yeah, the camera could and should be better. But does that make it unusable or subzero? Hell no. At least not for me and my use. It is still able to shoot great pics, the low light is still above par. Auto mode sucks quite a bit, as it has always been the sub-optimal solution, and sony should improve on that. But we're also still waiting for the first fw update, I remember the Z1 also improving quite a bit on the camera side with a fw update.

So yeah, things could and should be improved but they also still can and in the mean time it's still a perfectly fine cam (again, for me and my use). I know it is not for you, you have made that perfectly clear, but perhaps you should have turned in the phone again if it's such a big issue atm.
[Xperia Z3 General] gavinfabl:
Where's all the photos ? seems like a wild west stand off.
[Xperia Z3 General] xxquicksh0txx:
Yeah, I thought this was for pictures.. Not a discussion.
[Xperia Z3 General] koahhe:
Hi all,

Got my Z3 three days ago and since then I have been following with great interest this thread. Only today I found the time to take some pictures when taking my son for a walk and I have posted a few here and will also provide a link to my drive where people interested can download them in full size. I am not a very experienced photographer nor am I biased pro or against Sony, it is actually my first Sony phone and one I was really looking forward to, but the quality of the camera is very poor. The pictures look good on the phone but terrible when viewing them on my Dell monitor. My LG G2 can take much better photos than a Z3, I didn't have it with me when I went outside today but I will try one of these days to find some time to take some comparison photos. The photos I uploaded here were taken on manual mode, 20.7 mp. All the settings on Auto excepting the last two where WB was set on cloud.

https://drive.google.com/folder/d/0B7qwP0FzutTtdEJtSmtSMTVleWc/edit

PS. I have the intelligent auto versions of these photos too as I was curious to compare the two modes. They obviously look pretty bad but if anyone wants to see them I can upload those too.
[Xperia Z3 General] jayr04:
Looks like someone has a problem with Spanish signs :confused:
[Xperia Z3 General] Elfsiren:
You ever stop to consider that most people post pictures through an app like Tapatalk, for example? And that it isn't a conspiracy by Z3 owners to cover up the flaws? And that some people may not know how to post full sized images? You're rather pretentious.

[/QUOTE]

Ah, almost forgot... Please learn how to quote, stop that full quotes spamming the thread even more.

[/QUOTE]

Maybe you can point people to a guide on quoting comments, or write one yourself, as it can be a tricky business. I guess you'd rather stay on your high horse and talk down to people.

Edit: As you can see, I've screwed up my quote. It really can be troublesome.
[Xperia Z3 General] subhani:
Green does become very dominant in higher iso levels, especially in v low light. The iso50 crop looks brilliant. The came CAN take awesome pictures.
[Xperia Z3 General] radicans:
The recipe to get the most out of the Z3 seems to be:

-Close up shot (we have seen plenty of nice macro shots here)

-Plenty of light (to get that low ISO number. Goes for all cameras of course, but maybe more so for the Z3)

(or no light whatsoever!)

-Low contrast details, like the wood grain in my photo for example (to not trigger the overzealous sharpening filter)

-No sharp color transitions / low frequency color detail (noise reduction will blur the chromatic detail, resulting in color bleeding)
[Xperia Z3 General] doministry:
Blame only xda this.

I have no idea why the forum on mobile Chrome is crippled and doesn't allow this.

No matter what the mode of the browser is editing quotes is not possible.
[Xperia Z3 General] dedei:
Welp, I was taking some indoor shots and they came out TERRIBLE. Even my Z1 was better than my Z3 ?
[Xperia Z3 General] doministry:
You made me laugh, really. But maybe that's good? You really believe

I think you're the whiner guy who spends all his free time on bashing something,

and if all the people around don't agree, you have to continue...

Again, judging the whole camera quality and tons of its aspects only on some little edge blurring,

is plain stupid. It's like judging the quality of the drumset hitting individual drums only and not using it to play

the music with it. That's what you do.

And yes, the whole image is more more important than the detail.

Anyway - the photo. This a night shot..

Night test by doministry, on Flickr

And here the original.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/kaa4lu7a7itzg89/DSC_1397.JPG?dl=0

Almost no blurring on edges.

For me the discussion is pretty much over.

Pity the thread is not that useful anymore.

---------- Post added at 02:01 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:52 PM ----------

it's also interesting to know what was the light metering (center etc.).

And the white balance type.
[Xperia Z3 General] Chefproll:
Seems like many people even don't know there are other means for displaying photos than the tiny smartphone's display.

The thread's name is "Camera TESTS Z3".

Is it possible to test the 207 HP of a car by running 50 miles per hour ?

Is it possible to test the quality of an LCD monitor by displaying a picture and judging it from 10 meters distance ?

Sure no, everybody will agree.

But still people claim it's possible to evaluate the quality of a camera by watching 0.5 MP pics instead of 20.7 MP.

There's a quite unfriendly answer to this: "RTFM !"

If you can't drive, you better don't use a car. If you can't quote - just don't do it.

The more friendly variant:

1) Use "[ quote]" to START a quote. (Without any blanks.)

2) Use "[ /quote]" to STOP a quote. (Without any blanks.)

Example: [ quote]This is a quote ![ /quote]

So you regard it as sitting on a high horse if one asks for not spamming a thread ?

---------- Post added at 03:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:31 PM ----------

I guess you don't really expect an answer to this excuse - given the fact that you just quoted correctly.

I fear I need to inform you about the fact that the comparison pictures showing the plants on the soil (the ones with the white/red tape) and the ones showing the antler are NOT from the edges, but from the center.

Good you explained it; otherwise we couldn't have guessed.

You did not realize that EVERYTHING in that picture is out of focus, blurred ?

You tell me.
[Xperia Z3 General] Chefproll:
Try watching the photos on a regular LCD monitor, not on the tiny display. Will make you change your mind in no time.
[Xperia Z3 General] doministry:
Of course, because this time I was using PC, and the other time I was on the phone.

But you know, I just realized you're just a clueless guy indeed.

And a negative thing on this forum.

Further discussion with you is pointless.

This type of user happens occassionally, but again - you come, you go.

Bye :)

---------- Post added at 02:51 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:49 PM ----------

On this occassion, I would like to thank to all of you who contributed to this thread

with a productive approach. Thanks for the shots.
[Xperia Z3 General] subhani:
This is a brilliant shot! What were your settings? Any tips?

---------- Post added at 01:02 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:56 AM ----------

The other pictures on flickr, are they taken using the Z3? I'm guessing those were using a DSLR. What did you use in the post process? The one of the inside mosque architecture and calligraphy is particularly stunning.

Sent from Z3 using Tapatalk.
[Xperia Z3 General] doministry:
All the shots are by Z2!

On my Flickr there is nothing taken by any camera just the mobile phone :)

What did I use? Usually Pixl. Eventually built in editor.

That's it :)

Edit:

Oh wait! The whole Me album IS taken by DSLR exept the close portrait in glasses in greenish colour.

But the Life and Tests is all Z2 or previous Xperias. And Qx10.
[Xperia Z3 General] hanime:
Radicans and Chefproll has some good discussions indeed. I don't know what you talking about buddy. I enjoy the discussions as much as the photos in this thread. :good:
[Xperia Z3 General] GIANGOX:
Background Defocus, all auto :)
[Xperia Z3 General] subhani:
Okaaaay.... I took a background defocus shot in the past and it came out MUCH MUCH better than the regular shot of the same subject. I thought I was seeing things and tried to reproduce the same effect using the same subject in the same position and scene but to no avail. Is there anyone else that can test this out and confirm? I would be very keen to find out what magic is being done in this mode, since details are pin sharp, natural feeling and subject just appears more real/vivid.

---------- Post added at 03:21 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:19 AM ----------

Sad but true. My wife's iPhone 6+ absolutely trounces the Z3 indoors and even in all low light situations. Only in EXTREME low light and very good outdoor light does the Z3 show its strengths.
[Xperia Z3 General] jonmorris:
Do people remember on the Z1 when it was found that taking burst photos resulted in sharper images, as the camera app wasn't applying any post-image processing filters?

I wonder if that's what's happening here too?
[Xperia Z3 General] radicans:
I did some quick test shots on a landscape type scenario (focus at infinity), which means the background defocus app fails to do a fake depth blur composition, but saves the first photo nonetheless :)

It seems that there is somewhat less sharpening happening, as the halos/ringing are not as pronounced when comparing with the equivalent 8MP manual shot. Also, the background defocus app does a sensor crop, so it's the equivalent of zooming in a little/having a slightly longer lens. It's still 8MP though.

But it's a grey and dark november morning, so it's not exactly the ideal setting for some dynamic test shots..

It's interesting though, so far we have seen that the high sensitivity scene mode and now also the background defocus app produces less artifacts than the manual modes.
[Xperia Z3 General] Dom3000:
http://blogs.sonymobile.com/2014/11/17/introducing-xperia-photo-academy/
[Xperia Z3 General] ssj_jaypee:
Looks like the Z4 is going to get a massive upgrade in the camera department.

Brand new CMOS sensor to debut in the next Xperia which features massive upgrades.

http://www.dpreview.com/articles/8165301786/sony-debuts-21mp-stacked-cmos-sensor-for-smartphones
[Xperia Z3 General] danw_oz:
I wouldn't hold my breath, so was the sensor in the Xperia Z when it came out, the one still used in the Z3. Generally nowhere near as good as it should be for 20MP, Sony's processing throws away too much detail.

To me I believe this phone is interpolated to 20MP rather than true 20MP.
[Xperia Z3 General] jhun80:
http://instagram.com/p/vi__FRp_OO/