yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Xperia Z3 General] guybrush2099:
it isn't a good comparative

Note 4 has not wide angle lens. Z3 has them..so Z3 sees a great area and not4 sees a more little area

if you zoom the same portion of an object you obtein a greater zoom for z3 so it gives false results

z3 hasn't a good automatic, so they are false results another time

..and anyway image quality isn't everything. wide angles, better gamma in difficult situation of light and other things do a camera better than other one
[Xperia Z3 General] juanmaasecas:
Some of your statements are true, you're right.

But, for example, look at the colors. Reds in z3 are pinkish, and brown seems almost purple... And even when taking into account the difference in focal distance, z3 processing is worse...
[Xperia Z3 General] guybrush2099:
yes..white balance is worse..so colors are often overloaded..the main defect

processing isn's so bad in manual mode...I tried 8MPX ISO 50 (sun light) and ISO 400 (darker places). note 4 sometimes plays easier for the zoomed lens , but the whole picture (IMHO) is better with z3
[Xperia Z3 General] infinitylook:
I'm more interested of camera improvements and battery improvements. Anyone here? I am still waiting for a working recovery in Z3 and Z3 tablet compact before diving in the Lollipop party.￼
[Xperia Z3 General] serophia:
Little Hike by the lake
[Xperia Z3 General] CandyAndy:
I think its just time to face the facts and admit that Sony just doesn't want to make a good phone cameras. On paper they look the best and in practice they just aren't very good.

Already pre-ordered Edge 6 and hoping that it will finally be the phone camera I have been waiting for.
[Xperia Z3 General] doministry:
Sony makes great cameras and it has been proven by thousands of users.

It's just a user who also makes a big difference.

If you're using all Auto, than forget about any convincing effects.

It's just for random, quick shots.
[Xperia Z3 General] Chad_Petree:
Do you notice any improvements? Or maybe just placebo improvements? :cowboy: I have to say that those night pictures don't look very good, the one with the cat is nice though :(
[Xperia Z3 General] jonnytrix83:
For me lost a bit in low Light but when i write this in italian fb Page all guys want kill me so i say nothing :p
[Xperia Z3 General] Mike31285:
arena di Verona, Italy

Sent from WhiteSilver Z3 using the XDA Premium app ?
[Xperia Z3 General] Mike31285:
20mpixel

Casa de Romeo & Juliet, Verona

Italy

Sent from WhiteSilver Z3 using the XDA Premium app ?
[Xperia Z3 General] One Twelve:
Colours are an easy fix in post as well as contrast. Either camera's WB can be tricked, key is to be able to correct it.

I'd be more circumspect of ISO variations and resultant loss of detail by not using the best ISO. So closeups will appear less clear. The exifs are stripped so its not possible to verify if care was taken to ensure ISOs are comparable. In all likelihood since these sites are into auto shoots i will assume it was not. But most people will miss this and say oh, details are lacking = bad camera.

This does not mean the camera with the higher ISO could not take a better shot, in case of Z3 that is very possible with using a scene mode.

However without shutter speed control on the samsung which i notice is still missing even on the S6, this is not. Also to be noted night mode is an auto thing in samsungs since the S5, this i've found reduces number of colours to favour details. The difference is quite apparent when comparing with similar photo in which night mode did not kick in.
[Xperia Z3 General] juanmaasecas:
I was the first person trying to defend Sony smartphone cameras. But after having and testing deeply other brands, no excuses are possible. Sony processing is awful, and probably lens too. Even at higher iso levels, galaxy s4 is better than z3, not to mention s5, Note 4, etc. Detail, colors, everything. In bright light and in low light with flash enabled, other brands are superior than Sony. But in low light, holding the phone, with no moving objects and using night scene mode, Sony are the best. But because of the slow shutter speed and low iso. In same circumstances, Sony is crappy... It's sad, but it's what I've discovered. Well, not so crappy but inferior than its competitors.
[Xperia Z3 General] Chad_Petree:
That looks awful :crying:
[Xperia Z3 General] Mike31285:
And what should i do for this my friend??
[Xperia Z3 General] xxquicksh0txx:
Just looks out of focus, or the phone moved while he was taking the picture.
[Xperia Z3 General] One Twelve:
You had the Z, then you moved to samsung.

There is a difference between Z & its successors. You did not have any of the 20MP xperias did you ?

Show me some comparisons that have exifs intact.

I've seen quite a few and remain unconvinced that the differences objectively speaking are as big as they're made out to be. More often i sense a secondary reason not to like. Want a new device, do not like present device for some other reason., you name it.

If light is good any camera will do a good job. Macros is something else i do not consider because even a 3 yr old model can compete in that space. So the only differentiation is low light.

This expectation of getting it right the first time is an unrealistic one. If i'm in a situation where i will take shots, i try a few beforehand to see how they come out. I will take more than one for luck with different settings and this has saved me many times. The ability to figure out what went wrong and how to get it right has to be learnt. Bad photo does not mean bad camera.
[Xperia Z3 General] juanmaasecas:
Nowadays I own a xperia z2. I had note 3, galaxy s5 and iPhone 5s from XZ0 times. I've also tried some phones as z3 of course, s4, LG g2... I've made my own comparisons in same light conditions, same iso, etc and Sony is better only in low light because you can select night scene modes and the phone shutter speed is very slow (and same for the iso...). In auto, os using flash, there are so many phones better than z2/z3.

I still have the z2 because actually I don't like Samsung and latest Sony are overall the best phones in my opinion (faster and more fluid than Samsung, better battery life, better design, etc), but in the camera department, they left to be desired sadly.
[Xperia Z3 General] One Twelve:
Yes but once you try to go for lower ISO how much difference is there ?

in auto shoots the others you mention generally speaking will do better ie koreans + apple = good auto.

Does that mean better camera ? no, it just means better auto.

I'm surprised you find Z2 not that good with auto because it received far less complaints than the Z1.

Best shots will come when ISO is lowest, so how to get that ?

What i've not seen here yet is a table that indicates ranges of shutter times to ISO for the different modes. There are many modes and if you know which work better you can beat auto.

Right and this is very common for lots of people. I think it applies pretty much for all devices except niche ones. There are bigger reasons to choose what to go for than camera.

I decided camera was more important and went with k. its aperture is 3.1 so 1.5 f-stops means you will get a shot at half the iso i will. Your image quality will be better but that isn't the main criteria for me. framing, subject, composition, lighting etc matter more and will always make a bigger difference. In fact with phone cameras you are forced to do this because you don't have the quality of a bigger frame. In the end how it looks overall is more important than tiny details. We are not doing commercial photography here :)

My problem ? too much detail where i don't want it distracting the viewer from the subject because there is so much depth of field. Faking it in PS is an option.

To be stuck between 16:9 and 4:3 is maddening.4:3 is good for portraits. 16:9 is too skinny and pretty short in height in landscape. Which means its too wide and makes it harder to leave stuff out. You will be cropping very often in this format for that reason.

for general purpose i don't know why 3:2 isn't an option. It works for both orientations, its a standard. Not on most phones yet though (!)
[Xperia Z3 General] CandyAndy:
maybe they did improve the auto just a bit. I got a decent photo using it.

However still not as good as the competition
[Xperia Z3 General] One Twelve:
Depends what you want to convey in that shot. I would drop exp comp a little more to avoid the highlght burn. This way i'd have a nice blue sky.

However if i wanted the signage not to be silhouetted i would boost exp and avoid the bright bit of the sky. Use a different framing.

Shot like this is trivial with even the cheapest phone. In fact the less sensitive ones might get it better but will be less useful when light isn't as strong.

Image to the right uses a higher iso. Want better ? then use lower iso with longer shutter.

Why didn't phone arena ever mention this point ? none of them do. is it classified information. or does it get in the way of pushing a new product over an older one which is still more than capable.

The whole image, right one looks every so slightly brighter but histograms of both are similar. Both are acceptable.

if this was an iphone the histogram would look better still, appear better exposed. The shot would be similar but only on looking deeper would you spot the differences.

Been checking out the droid turbo of late, it has a 20MP camera which i suspect is an IMX220 like on the xperias but not had any confirmations. I'm told all motos are camera 2 api compliant. we will see. One odd thing i've noticed about droid turbo is some slight

barrel distortion

on macro shots. never seen that here. Usually its because of the lens and its always there but it does not show up with

other photos

. weird.
[Xperia Z3 General] juanmaasecas:
Because phone arena shoots in auto because they're not too much into photography, same as most of users. But I can sure you that even at same iso, xperia phones show worse details in low light, and things as skin tones look more unnatural. And yes, you can use night scene mode and beat other phones, but what happens if you handhold the phone? Blurred pic. What happens if there are some people in the picture? Blurred people (although you mount the phone on a tripod).

Sony picture processing is awful, full of artifacts, no natural detail but overprocessed, leak of color deepness, etc. Furthermore, the flash power is weaker and makes the phone rise the iso level more than other phones, etc. And not to forget about the white balance, with that purple tint in every picture. Ah! The pinkish reds issue, take note too.

And even in daylight, where every phone is good, sonys are worse than others.

We need raw format, not only for processing the picture ourselves in photoshop, but for giving third party apps the possibility of implementing their own algorithms, which surely surpasses the Sony processing.
[Xperia Z3 General] jonnytrix83:
Manual 20 mp Z3 lollipop
[Xperia Z3 General] One Twelve:
Point being we never see the best any camera can do. So to say one is better than another on the basis of auto shoots is misleading.

Sometimes there can even be camera shake when taking the photo which will naturally affect the processing after.

lets see them, you have z2, which other phone can you compare with ? i do not find problems with photos you have taken with any device :)

in the above pics i don't think night mode is necessary. A scene mode that will get you a lower iso with longer shutter is all that is required. Its a static scene. or you can try with a low ISO and just add EV+. Had linked to an app called rawdroid some time ago, it overlays exif info on the photo, makes it very easy to see what settings work best in a series of photos just by screen swipe. Just choose to display iso and shutter and you will find quickly what works and does not.

handhold phone, you should be able to pull off 1/4 with a good handhold, maybe even 1/2. but there must not be too many things in the background, like a street etc or there will be blur, if subject is close you can get it and there is like a blank background its possible. So if you can pull off a 1/4 instead of 1/16 its already much better.

moving subjects there is no way to get them unless you have enough light. with any camera. so if you can get your subjects into more light always better. get the focus distance right and you should be good.

skin tones can be hard to do when you have less control of light.

How much worse ? The only place i've found it lacking is with vegetation, others do a little better job. undoubtedly this is where raw helps. But how many shots do you take where that little bush on the side needs to be tack sharp ?

white balance is an easy fix in PS. removing colour casts too. See

this

. seriously, how hard was that to do. You can even do this on gimp. But i don't see many mobile apps that will let you do it.

Colour depth decreases as ISO increases, you want to avoid extended ISO's and stick with native ISO that means 800 is the max preferably 400. Everything above 800 is internal software processing. You could do the same in post. Jpegs will allow to boost EV by at least +1 or -1 anyway.

LED flashes are already weak and blow subjects away. I hardly use my xenon on people unless i'm at least 6 feet away. Even then i don't like the colour it creates. the problem with flash is it needs a shutter faster than 1/30 otherwise you see closed eyes. to get 1/60 you need light and higher iso.

sure and this applies to everybody really. An algorithm that is supposed to be able to remove the right amount of luminance & chroma noise while preserving maximum detail and should work perfectly every time just does not exist.

I don't know what happened to these guys, everything was fine up to a month ago now its all gone :(

http://freedcam.hol.es/
[Xperia Z3 General] defcomg:
we still around https://plus.google.com/u/0/communities/112880644833309033743 .

About raw format I think it something kernel devs have to look into AFAIK the xperia L is the only Sony device that can shoot in raw so perhaps they should investigate what make that device so special. if any Bayer format can be returned by z3 freedcam can produce dng
[Xperia Z3 General] corallus:
May not be perfectly focused, but in our group, the Galaxy s4, Galaxy s5, iPhone 5s and xperia Z1 could not get this pic through same filtered glass.
[Xperia Z3 General] One Twelve:
Thanks for reply defcom :highfive:

Looking forward to reopening of your

thread

.
[Xperia Z3 General] Metallijim:
I thought I'd share this, although it's not a comparison shot, i didn't think it was too bad. Stock kitkat. Solor eclipse
[Xperia Z3 General] guybrush2099:
hi there

I tested "new" Lollipop stock camera and Sony has corrected white balance :victory:
[Xperia Z3 General] defcomg:
perhaps in future anyway freedcam is now public and can found on this playstore link https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=troop.com.freedcam

by the way I've not seen anyone mention this but Sony had manual exposure api since the xperia z meaning one could control shutter speed this api was added to freedcam to test open freedcam swipe down for manual controls menu the press on shutter use seekbar to adjust you can use the g+ community link for feedback
[Xperia Z3 General] cheeyeen:
Superior Auto - the only best shot so far

Superior Auto, indoor with natural lighting. My cat :victory:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/131232195@N02/16676053537/
[Xperia Z3 General] One Twelve:
1/100 @ ISO 100 implies adequate light. Add to that its a macro.
[Xperia Z3 General] cheeyeen:
Sorry not familiar with the ISO thingy...

Speaking of macro, my macro with z3 always fail... This is the only good pic...

Maybe I should revise my skill.. Albeit my pics were fine with my pre-loved iPhone 5. :p
[Xperia Z3 General] One Twelve:
Lower the ISO better the image quality.1/100 means fast enough to freeze motion. 1/100 because lots of light.

fail how ?
[Xperia Z3 General] itsjustJOH:
Photo samples with stock Lollipop ROM please. :crying:
[Xperia Z3 General] Boldizzle:
I love that people still hide behind the "Use Manual mode and you can take good photos" excuse.

Even people's manual mode photos seem to look worse than my wife's iPhone 6 Plus auto mode photos.
[Xperia Z3 General] doministry:
I love people who don't get much from the topic and have no clue,

using such strong arguments like "even my wife's..."

Of course! You will aways moan, that's why you're here!

Luckily, you still have your wife :)
[Xperia Z3 General] Boldizzle:
All I'm saying is that this camera has been quite a let down on the Z3.

It shouldn't take 10 seconds of manual adjustments to take an okay photo.

Like how you decided to get all personal though. I didn't think Polish people were known for stooping so low.
[Xperia Z3 General] Aoi_sora9x:
LOL, i wonder why people have to get so butthurt about whether or not the camera is good.

Frankly speaking, it's just another piece of technology. And as a tech user, you should try your best to be objective in order to judge it fairly. After all, you are in the geekiest corner of the interwebs regarding mobile devices.

Truth to be told, the camera is not as great as other offerings from Apple and maybe Samsung. That's the weakness of the device.

Do I like the Z3? Yes.

Will i turn a blind eye regarding its camera performance? Nah.

I don't see what's the point of being a fanboy regarding this issue.

Though, in the Z3's defense, if you know how to take picture with Manual mode, the picture will be quite astounding, and that's a big plus.
[Xperia Z3 General] radicans:
Agree, a lot of people are blaming auto, but manual is pretty much just as bad IMO. You can fine tune the exposure, ISO, and white balance to some extent, but it does not help with all the inherent issues in the image processing which is the main culprit.
[Xperia Z3 General] One Twelve:
I would say learning about photography is the key. i did not know much about the subject until the Z1.

If you're not interested in that then go with another device. But if you learn some you will get better photos. course the iphone is the most crippled stock camera out there. if it screws up then you cant do much other than say doh its a phone camera.

dumb. iphone does not define what a phone camera is any more than samsung defines what a screen should look like.

scene mode allows to increase shutter speed and keep iso low. manual mode will allow exp comp. The only thing that is really required is shutter control.

Lets see a comparison, on flickr, with full resolution. If it looks better there is a reason. it seems to be people are not willing to get into those reasons.

i don't expect to get a shot right the first time. But good lighting its easy with any camera.

This means a camera that allows some degree of manual control allows to improve what auto can do. Not always necessary but the option exists.

if you believe the camera is bad then you won't even try. saying auto does not work when other options are available isn't a statement on the ability of the camera, its a statement on who took the photo.
[Xperia Z3 General] itsjustJOH:
No, other itsjustJOH, we'll get more arguments instead. :crying:
[Xperia Z3 General] Boldizzle:
A professional reply, thanks.

Maybe my Z3 is faulty then because I swear I can never get any sharp detail on things like tree leaves, grass, etc. It always has this blur to it no matter what I do with the manual settings yet my old Galaxy S3 had no issues with such things.

While I probably came across as snarky before, it's just really because it's very frustrating only getting a half decent photo at best every 10 tries.
[Xperia Z3 General] cadboncopyvw:
I've often wondered this about mine. I've been taking pictures for years (I even have a GCSE in it :silly:) and could turn out half decent photos with my old full manual 35mm film camera I had. I can still turn out half decent photos with my EOS 50D. I could take decent pictures with my Galaxy S3 and I can even take OK pictures with my Galaxy Tab Pro 10.1 (although I did feel like slapping myself for using a tablet to take pictures when I did it as a test). But when I use the Z3 no amount of playing will alter the fact that it seems to go mad with the noise reduction - lots of blades of grass or leaves, that's noisy mate - I'll turn it into a green mush for you! And yes, I do make sure the lense is clean before taking photos :angel:

Having said that - It's a phone camera and so isn't used for anything that important.
[Xperia Z3 General] Boldizzle:
Yes!! This green mush is exactly what I get and its so frustrating.

It's especially frustrating for me because i just constantly meet people with other phones)(LG G3, Galaxy S4, iPhone) and they are always have much nicer detail on their photos.
[Xperia Z3 General] One Twelve:
Not a pro, just an enthusiast who knew nothing about photography up to a year ago AND does not even own a Z3 (!)

My only saving grace is i've followed xperias since the z, particularly their photo threads.

Nothing is wrong with your Z3, vegetation looks like mush because in converting to jpg, how smooth is preferred over how sharp. The other models you mention are slightly better but not by a lot because they also do the same. Compare these two from nexus 5.

Jpg

vs processed

RAW

. Pull the full resolution and pixel peep all you want. thanks to silvedace.

The

originals

come from fv5 site.

How to get better ? raw. when is raw coming. we don't know but chances are it can be implemented by 3rd party efforts. it requires kernel devs to take a look at the code. This means you will most likely need to use a custom kernel. Then liase with the freedcam guys. i feel they will make raw on the xperias a reality before sony can.

kernel devs are delayed because sony takes around 3 months after launch before they allow safe unlocking of the boot loader without losing any thing.

other than vegetation what else isn't right. post images on flickr or somewhere that preserves exifs, that means no imgur or board attachments. Its hard to say anything more otherwise.
[Xperia Z3 General] radicans:
Your Z3 is not faulty, in the sense that it behaves differently from other Z3s. I have looked into this in great depth. It's in Sony's image processing algorithms, and it can't be circumvented. It does destroy detail to a bigger extent than with any other modern phone camera. Apart from making fine detail like grass and trees look like a right mess, it also blurs out chromatic detail, giving the photo a smudgy look even if you have low ISO and perfect focus.

Here is a post I wrote about the issues with plenty of photo examples on Sony's support forum, in a naive attempt to get their attention to fix it: https://talk.sonymobile.com/t5/Xperia-Z3-Compact/Camera-flaws/m-p/874139#U874139

Of course, you can take measures to make the best out of the situation, but you will rarely get the same quality as with Samsung and Apple phones. Although macro shots come out surprisingly well with the Z3! Well, at least the loss of detail it is not a big concern when looking at the mobile screen only.

(btw, I see you live in Welly! I moved there to work at Weta Digi back in the day. Great city!)
[Xperia Z3 General] plemen:
I've read there have been some changes to white balance etc with the Lollipop upgrade - any other changes that would help with the detail/smudginess?

Thanks,
[Xperia Z3 General] Boldizzle:
And this is the thing that saddens me the most with this phone. The fact that Sony can supply imaging sensors to competing brands and have the competing brands make better use out of it than Sony themselves.

Hmm... Now I just have to decide whether I go back to Samsung in a few months time as the S6 is looking pretty attractive judging by the reviews. Battery life aint that big a deal to me as I'm nearly always by a charger.

Yup, born and raised! Other than the occasional rain and wind(okay, it's more constant than some would like to admit) I could never move away from here. I know a few people that work at Weta Digital. Sounds like a fun place to work. I hope you enjoyed it! :)