yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Xperia Z3 General] pchetan2:
high iso photos compared with manual mode photos

here is the link

https://drive.google.com/?urp=https...thuser=0#folders/0B0P0znVqG54QNU5tSHZCVm9jMTg
[Xperia Z3 General] id3alistic:
So if it's not the hardware, but the software.... does getting a camera app from the store change anything? That's what I never really understood about camera phones. They need to partner with Apple or something. "We build your camera hardware, you build us our camera software."
[Xperia Z3 General] Chefproll:
Short and dirty: NO.
[Xperia Z3 General] oryan_dunn:
Well, currently. There is hope Lollipop camera API will change that.
[Xperia Z3 General] XxSilent22xX:
I think some of these pictures look pretty damn good, however the video quality is a let down.
[Xperia Z3 General] Chefproll:
The answer is simple: It's us.

Because we don't speak up. Because we don't post detail pictures. Because we claim we're SO happy with the picture quality. Because we watch pictures on that tiny display instead of zooming into details.

So why should Sony change or improve anything - if we behave like Apple fanboys, ignoring the problems, even praise Sony for providing subzero stuff ?

"You bought a mobile phone, not a DSLR !"

"Nobody watches pictures in full resolution."

"The photos look SO great on my phone's display."

"Don't listen to him ! Just another pixel peeper !"

"You must be a troll if you criticize that GREAT photos !"

That's the reason.
[Xperia Z3 General] itsjustJOH:
A lot of people do that, but there's also a lot of us clamoring for the change. If you put that in percentage I'd say that's a 50% for each for the whole Sony Xperia community, divided to the blind fanboys and the rational ones. But that was before, right now it's now more blind fanboys than the other as they start to see "improvements" with the software when what Sony's devs had done was just to FIX the problems they had but which has taken them YEARS.
[Xperia Z3 General] Chefproll:
Funny-looking dog; but even with reduced size the pictures look like taken a) with a totally smudged lens, or b) taken with a 1.3 MP webcam (bought 2006). :/

---------- Post added at 08:53 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:49 PM ----------

If that took them years - just imagine how long it will take them now, if they're forced to launch an new "flagship" every 6 months. They had time for improvement in the past - and just didn't make it. Now, they'll need all their power for developing new models; I doubt there will be any time left for making a 20.7 MP camera take photos like a 20.7 MP camera, like the camera they advertized, the one we paid for. :/
[Xperia Z3 General] GoyoNeuff:
Look at my post above.

Cheers,

G.
[Xperia Z3 General] pchetan2:
First three pics are superior auto mode taken (high iso) pics and last one is taken in manual mode
[Xperia Z3 General] russell664:
Sent from my Xperia Z3
[Xperia Z3 General] viking2.0:
Quick SA mode shot

http://imgur.com/JcxJDec
[Xperia Z3 General] juanmaasecas:
Manual controls are the best to get a decent low light picture. Because of that i recently changed my S5 for an iPhone 5s.

Here is an example took this night, iPhone 5s, 1/2s, iso 250

Pd: I have read the whole thread cause i love this phone and maybe it will be my next one, but the camera is very important for me (some time ago i had an Xperia Z0 and I know Sony lacks in mobile image processing sadly:( ) I hope they include raw and manual abilities in lollipop update ...
[Xperia Z3 General] pchetan2:
Yeah, last one is same as 3rd one,you can see the position of lights..and while taking last picture, I did not change any settings in manual mode,took it with default settings
[Xperia Z3 General] subhani:
I think you're reading too much into what I was saying. I'm not able to go into the technical differences of what is low light and how it differs with HDR.

What I DO know is pictures taken in ALMOST all low light scenes on the Z3 is better than on the G2 or the iPhone 6/+. My partner has the OIS enabled iP6+ and my old G2 is OIS fitted too. OIS is supposed to help with low light and it does, but Sony's 12800 iso is better, if you're only measuring one factor, which is illumination of the scene. It lights up a greater landscape than the aforementioned two devices.

In detail dept? The iPhone 6+ eats the Z3 EVERY time. The Note 4 (according to PhoneArena test) eats the iP6+.

So where else is the Z3 stronger than the iP6+? Well, there is simply no denying that the DIS is crazy effective on the Z3, making a fool of the 'stabilisation' on the ip6+.

The slow motion controls for video and on the fly assigning of multiple slo mo portions of one clip is awesome.

Did I say that the mic is better on the Z3 than on the ip6+? For voice yes it is. In fact iPhone fares quite bad compared to the rest of the competition.

Hardware button to wake the camera from sleep, two stage focus and shoot. These aspects are unique advantages of the Z3 over our iPhone.

IPhone still captures shots quicker by a mile and shoots subsequent shots quicker too. I was expecting the iPhone to do better than the Z3 in capturing moving subjects like little children but it does no better than the Z3, sometimes even worse...

The z3 can capture a wider scene than the iPhone. You have to step back to get the full shot in on the iPhone.

IPhone has better dynamic range though. So it ticks some really essential boxes and that is where Sony needs to improve. That's what makes the iPhone a solid performer. Detail, dynamic range and quick capture.

But the Z3 makes up for these with a more cumulative effect of the other areas of strength. The camera module is 20mp but doesn't protrude like the iPhone's does. So considering all of these different strengths and weaknesses of both devices, it's fair to say people don't make a phone choice based purely on the camera. The OS, the price, the aesthetics, the size, the stamina of the battery etc add up in the final decision. That's why I feel that the Z3 is the best phone of 2014. To date.

Hell yes we demand that Sony issue a proper update for the camera to improvem in details dept and dynamic range, screen calibration and most of all..... .... .... update to ANDROID L!

---------- Post added at 04:37 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:35 AM ----------

That is ONE AWESOME shot. That iPhone... wow
[Xperia Z3 General] Jonathan-H:
Problem is when you take normal pics on iphone's on auto, they're as bad as the Z3 if not worse. Almost any camera phone out there can take that pic with correct settings and editing.
[Xperia Z3 General] juanmaasecas:
I know, but the problem is that there is no manual settings in Android at the moment (I hope this changes in Lollipop for all brands). That picture is impossible with any Samsung, because the slower shooter speed is 1/15s and it takes the ISO level too high... And even in my old Xperia Z0, I could have 1/2s in Night scene mode, but the ISO limit was 100, so the pic would have been darker than this one (I don't know the ISO limit in night mode on Xperia Z3 though).

Pd: In auto in low light in my test (indoors for example) I still get better results with the iPhone than with the Galaxy S5 or my friend's Xperia Z2. Better colours, better details, more natural pics. 1.5 micron pixels do matter. All new 1.12 micron pixels are a little bit crappy when the light is not perfect, and also the dynamic range is worse :(
[Xperia Z3 General] One Twelve:
OK, guys this is Juan. One of my first gurus who showed you can take good photos with 'crap camera' Original Z.

Still have this

bookmark

.

People were saying Oh there is so much processing with Z, so Juan says to use

burst mode

The reviewers say this is not possible but on this board you will find guys who break the rules and show what can be done :)
[Xperia Z3 General] juanmaasecas:
Thank you dude!

Did you see some of my pics taken with my "old" Galaxy S5?

http://xdaforums.com/showpost.php?p=54282479&postcount=45

I wrote a huge photography review/tutorial for Xperia Z0 (and also another one for the Galaxy Note 3), but they're posted in an spanish forum and I don't have the time to translate it, but I think it could help a lot of people in taking better pics with their Xperias (since the scene modes or the exposure times hasn't change since then...)
[Xperia Z3 General] pchetan2:
Taken just now... All night shots in my work place
[Xperia Z3 General] subhani:
Thanks very much for a very informative reply. Much appreciated.
[Xperia Z3 General] juanmaasecas:
Take a look at these crops from a spanish iPhone 6plus review. All phones on auto:

http://www.teknofilo.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/Comparativa-Noche.jpg

Note:

z3: ISO 800

iPhone 5s: 640 ISO

iPhone 6 plus: 200 ISO

Galaxy S5: No exif data (smart stabilizer ON, so probably 2 x 1/10s frames merged)

The point is that using Night Scene mode, the Z3 picture would have been great (when holding the phone anywhere/using tripod) and so would the iPhone 5s using manual controls (I think quality in both 5s/6 is almost the same using same parameters)... In Samsung, there is no way to achieve lower speeds (and lower ISO in consequence) at the moment. Smart stabilizer makes pictures look like oil paintings :(
[Xperia Z3 General] subhani:
Do you have a link to the full review?
[Xperia Z3 General] juanmaasecas:
Of course I do.

http://www.teknofilo.com/analisis-iphone-6-plus/
[Xperia Z3 General] One Twelve:
Give the links to the originals with exif data for the above. Don't use imgur as it strips out all exifs. Use another host.

Have seen numerous collages like this shot down with the Z1 because the settings chosen by the camera were different. ISO was not the same at all.

And mr 4 post join date two months ago radicans is going to have to work harder for me to take him seriously.

---------- Post added at 10:48 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:40 PM ----------

Yes, if the lighting conditions are different then why are you making comparisons ? I would not attempt to do this with photos taken from the same camera other than to find out which light was better for the shot.

Light is very important, sun goes behind the clouds light changes, different time of the day, light is different again, different shooting angle same thing, image changes. Not an equivalent comparison :)

And please if you must photograph trees with leaves, try and ensure it isn't windy.

Take those photos in the same lighting conditions and post the links to originals with exifs intact. Then we will talk.
[Xperia Z3 General] OnSugarHill:
Seeing some decent pics now that everyone is getting a hang of the phone. I must admit that they're a little underwhelming for a flagship device though. I'm uploading a video for you guys to see
[Xperia Z3 General] radicans:
Well it just so happens that I do know about photography, and I know poor quality when I see it. True though, in optimal circumstances, and making sure I don't take photos of any motif that the Z3 image processing can't handle, my photos will show less of the Z3's inadequacy.

Sure, there are ways to make the most out of any given camera. But that doesn't change the fact that the Z3 camera is inferior to all of its competition.

---------- Post added at 12:38 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:11 AM ----------

I shall work harder mr high and mighty, the approval of internet strangers is of utmost importance to me :)

On a more serious note, here are some relevant exif data I retrieved from the original images:

Galaxy note 3:

ISOSpeedRatings: 50

ShutterSpeedValue: 910/100

FocalLength: 413/100

ApertureValue: 227/100

Compression: 6

Sony Z3 compact:

ISOSpeedRatings: 50

ShutterSpeedValue: 896/100

FocalLength: 460/100

Compression: 6

DigitalZoomRatio: 100/100

There was no ApertureValue in the Z3 exif. But I think these values are pretty comparable, don't you?

If there are any more exif info that might be relevant, let me know. The whole list was rather huge.
[Xperia Z3 General] Hlorri:
I got my Z3 yesterday, have a Z2 already, along with a Nokia 808 PureView and a HTC One (M7).

I must say I'm underwhelmed by the Xperias - particularly the Z3. Compared to the Z2 it seems to have lost some dynamic range (more prone to blown highlights, e.g. in the sky behind trees, or near a lamp indoors...). I'll post photo samples later - but that's the one area where the Z2 held its own.

Other than that, both the Z2 and Z3 have incredibly "noisy" images at the pixel level - and I'm quite convinced that this is the primary reason for their unreasonably large file sizes. (JPEG compression does not work so well with random noise, compared with smoother pixel-to-pixel variations). Comparing 8MP photos from my 808PV vs 8MP photos from the Z2/Z3 (16:9, exact same pixel resolutions), the latter two are 3-4 times larger larger --- and less detailed to boot!

Don't even get me started on videos: The color balance is very unreliable, sometimes useless; my Z2 would overheat after a few minutes (no 4K, just plain 1080p); zooming is horrible...

The cherry on the pie is that Sony has not yet fixed some other glaring bugs in their OS. The mail reader does not render HTML properly (this can be seen very clearly if you receive emails from the "Sweet Tomatoes" restaurant chain; on every other mailreader you'll see 2D barcode images, on the Sony phones you'll see 1D barcodes plus some garbage characters that were meant to be part of the URL of the image - and yes I analyzed the HTML source and the problem is definitely with the rendering in the Sony device). The "Sony Xperia Home" application crashes now and then. Oh, and if you use it with a the Sony XSP-N1BT car stereo receiver (which was specifically created for the Xperia), your dial pad becomes unusuable while in a call. (No way to send DTMF tones in a phone tree..) And on and on.

I don't want a Same-sung. HTC phones are great overall - far less buggy - and to be fair their cameras do have their merits (the fastest exposure times around, very quick photo-to-photo times, probably the best low-light performance, and in the case of the M7 optical image stabilization - a good one at that); however, in daylight they are a bit noisy, and suffer the same blown highlight problem as the Z3 - even more so. LG phones are crappy in the dark.

Sooo, I'm a bit miffed at the state of cameraphones in the Android ecosystem. For the time being, I'll be carrying my 808 as a backup for occasions where I might decent camera - especially for videorecording - but don't want to drag my DSLR.
[Xperia Z3 General] One Twelve:
How about those people over at DxO. I'd love to know your take on their ratings. Does what they say count at all for you.

They pick 7 parameters and evaluate devices on that basis for stills & video. They analyse hundreds of images & hours of video per device before they put their ratings out. I don't understand how they gave the iphone 6 a better overall video score over the s5 as s5 beats the iP6 on 5 parameters to two for video. That is a mystery for me.

They have not done the Note 4 yet. i don't know if they will, they skipped the note 3. So i will take the S5 to be equivalent to the Note 4 for stills in the mean time, given the last models they tested note 2 & S3 were a tie with stills. But the video of the note 2 was better than the S4. Even the S3 had better video than the S4.

In video the S5 beats the Z3 by three points. I expect the note 4 to do better than the S5 for video maybe another couple of points.

In stills the Z3 beats the S5 by two points. The note 4 might close the gap.

So its the video of the note 4 that's better than the z3, if that matters. Not stills or at least not to the point you and your friend make it out to be.

Is that a lot ? Enough to stay up at night worrying about it. And does it matter to those who chose the Z3 at all.

ok, here is the next issue. How many pairs have you compared ?

How representative is your collage of one pair with different subjects in various lighting conditions.

User error. Its impossible to verify that. Try to use software shutter instead of hardware. This can affect sharpness even in good light as i've seen in some cases with Z2. Another is

hyperfocal distance

. Where you set focus matters.

Manufacturing defect is a possibility but a low one. Unless you notice a problem in general. Have seen reviewer shots where there was a consistent blurriness for some reason.

What about low light, you want to post a comparison of Z3 vs note 4 for that. Tell us what is the lowest shutter time the note 4 can do ?

Unless samsung has done something new the Z3 will beat it like its predecessors beat the galaxies, lg's, notes and iphones in low light. Whereas in good light those guys will do little better than the Z's. They are not general purpose but rather good light shooters.

Decide what you want. General purpose all rounder jack of trades or good light shooter.
[Xperia Z3 General] mattlgroff:
Here are some photo's I've taken using Manual and 20MP selected, occasionally changing Exposure and leaving ISO to Auto.

Full size!
[Xperia Z3 General] iBuzman:
I'm officially over this thread.. let's all agree that those who hate everything and those that don't are both right so we can all stop trying to convince the other group....
[Xperia Z3 General] radicans:
Well it's interesting to read of course, but I care more what the actual photos show.

I have not taken any more comparisons, but the over-processing is there in most photos i look at. But it's amazing what it can do in low light shots, I'll give it that!

Don't you find it a little odd that is either some parameter the Z3 needs to have set, or user error, or if you compare some other photo the Z3 will be better. In all the cases I've seen where it's been compared side by side the Z3 comes out not looking so good. Here, for example:

http://www.phonearena.com/news/Sams...comparison-iPhone-6-is-distant-second_id61676

The photos from the samsung note 4 are amazing, if a little oversaturated. But look at the detail close up! The Z3 should technically be able to achieve this (considering the sensor size, and that the note 4 sensor is provided by Sony), if it wasn't for overly aggressive image processing, presumably. It might seem that I am too pessimistic, but I am only pointing out the flaws. I'm not saying that it is crap in every aspect, there are many good shots posted after all. But there are some glaring flaws that most likely could be improved upon if, I belive, Sony fixed their image post-processing. At the very least, I would be thrilled to have the option to turn it off, as it seems to improve the daylight shots.
[Xperia Z3 General] santoshcoolhere:
[MENTION=6079771]radicans[/MENTION]

Stop posting pics from Phonearena website and instead look at what other users in this thread has posted. Phonearena reviewers are pathetic at taking photos and they used Superior Auto Mode which snaps in 8MP and is highly unreliable. If you knew even a little about photography, then you must understand most of them use the manual mode. Same happened with the Z2 but Sony fixed it with a software update. And please note that Samsung Note 4 is using the IMX Sensor MADE BY SONY so stop commenting about SONYs camera technologies. It's not the hardware to blame but the processing algorithms that Sony seems to employ. If you are not happy with that, just download and use Google Camera. Simple and better. Xperia Z3 users have no need to worry about the camera quality as in a few weeks Sony will probably release a software update that fixes most of the issues with Superior Auto mode also Android L is hitting major flagships in the coming weeks and along with it comes RAW image processing. Then let's see who's the BOSS around.
[Xperia Z3 General] juanmaasecas:
Using another camera app doesn't override Sony algorithms sadly :(

We're waiting for Sony to improve their image algorithms since a while ago, and I think it will be better to keep waiting while sitting down...

Overall image quality seems good, but when you zoom in the picture, other brands like Apple,Samsung or Nokia performs quite better, giving a better pixel detail. Except maybe in low light, when if you know how to use the phone and select night scene mode (for example) you can get far better detail than on any Samsung, due to the minimum shutter speed is 1/15s (and in Sony phones it's 1/2s in night scene mode). Apple and Nokia, also using manual exposures, continue on top in my opinion.

I wish and I hope Sony implements the new android camera Apis in lollipop so that third party apps are able to use their own algorithms, configure manual exposure and shoot in raw quality...
[Xperia Z3 General] radicans:
I suggest you read my posts again. I basically agree to everything you are saying here, maybe apart from that the phonearena guys are pathetic, that seems a little harsh :)

Indeed, the note 4 has a Sony sensor, as I pointed out in my last post, so the Z3 should be able to capture photos with the same quality! I'm not slamming sony hardware in any way, never have, but their processing software stinks! This is what I have said all along. Unfortunately, using another camera app doesn't remove the processing filter, I have tried many. I have also looked into how the API works, and there doesn't seem to be any choice there in whether to apply the noise reduction filters or not.

Just as you, I am eagerly looking forward to Android 5 and RAW capture, as I do think the Z3 has the potential to deliver excellent photo quality!
[Xperia Z3 General] dedei:
Can we just enjoy the camera for what it is? God when did yall become so annoying.

Just to be on topic, here's a pic I took with my Z1 as I didn't have my Z3 back then.
[Xperia Z3 General] iBuzman:
thanks
[Xperia Z3 General] se1000:
Amateur photographer chiming in.

My last phone was a Z2 and as of a few days ago, I now have a Z3. Aside from that, I also carry a iPhone 6 for work, and in the past few years I've had a S4, Note 3, Nexus 5, iPhone 5s, Moto X (1st gen), and a few others.

Here's how I feel about the files that come out of the Sony phones. In good light, it's really hard to beat the Z-series 20.7MP sensor. Then again, most of the newer crop of phones are all pretty damn good in good light. Framing, and technique are bigger differentiators than the camera sensors between the latest top tier phones. If you think you can just slap your screen while waving your phone around and get good pics, I got news for you.

Obviously, low light is where things get interesting. IMO, Sony has chosen, for better for for worse, to go very light on the noise reduction on the processing of their jpegs. A lot of people see this as poor quality, since the noise is there. I challenge anyone to take a side-by-side in low light against any other top tier phone and tell me that although the other phones shots do look "smoother" all of the details look very muddy and often times colors are starting to crumble as well. Don't look at a smooth portion, look at something with an intricate pattern. A lot of times it just won't be there in a pic taken on another device.

Personally, I prefer keeping the detail and dealing with the noise. You can smooth out the noise in post, but you can't do anything about lost detail, it's gone forever. Ideally, Sony should would implement a "low nose NR" on-off toggle to give us the option.

Otherwise, I've noticed that the lens of the Z2 likes to show flare a little more than other phones, not a big deal. Colors and exposure can be a bit off, a bit less consistent than the iPhone 6 as well, but not offensively bad.

Being into photography, I do like the manual mode on the Sony, it gives me the options that I want built right into the stock app.