yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Galaxy Note 4 General] Gunthermic:
Respect

I am goignto kindly remind "All" to talk with respect. If you have nothing good to say or contribute, then move along. Trolling, or calling names is childish and will not be tolerated. Nor will continueing it...

You have been kindly warning... Please take heed....

Thank you!

gunthermic

Forum Moderator
[Galaxy Note 4 General] midreestaj:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/8234/arms-mali-midgard-architecture-explored/8

"Briefly, we can see that as far as theoretical shading performance is concerned, our theoretical Mali-T760 would push 60 GFLOPS when counting MADs (20 FLOPS/clock/core). Or when using ARM’s preferred metric of MAD plus a dot product

(34 FLOPS/clock/core)

this becomes 102 GLOPS. How you count ends up being important here as it means the theoretical throughput of the T760MP10 is either close to something like AMD’s A4-1350, or close to the very high end configurations that NVIDIA and Imagination will be peddling."

ARM arch differs in the way it is designed from other archs thus calculating Gflop is a bit tricky here as you can see from above excerpt from the same article regarding T760 MP10 @ 300 Mhz
[Galaxy Note 4 General] alex3run:
That's pretty incorrect to judge the GPU performance by Gflops.

Anyway the ALU performance of Mali T760 is weak compared to Adreno 420. It has three times slower fps in GFXBench ALU test. Samsung even had to uplift the GPU clock from 600 to 700 MHz while running ALU-heavy workloads.
[Galaxy Note 4 General] midreestaj:
That is ARM reference design drawbacks and subsequent face saving in benchmarks as much is possible.

Mali T760 hits good where required i.e. real world performance is very good though it might not be very future proof. 3D titles that we talk about in Android are very slow in progress so current performance is more important than future proofing.
[Galaxy Note 4 General] alex3run:
Have I said that Mali has poor real world performance? No. It has bad performance in ALU-heavy BENCHMARKS because of the fact that it has less computing shaders than other GPUs. But it never reflects into real world gaming.
[Galaxy Note 4 General] Cosmos81:
First of all thanks for the, contributions in this thread ! Although I am a Noob, a lot of it did make sense to me, but on the other hand it "confused" me :confused: by what the choice now, the Snapdragon 805 or the Exynos 5 variant of the Note 4...shortly..which one is more ready for the future..
[Galaxy Note 4 General] midreestaj:
We will see Mali do good at ALU performance when the Android gaming requires it.

T760 will provide seamless user experience throughout 2015 till mid 2016 hopefully... That is what one can expect from a good GPU arch instead of a GPU that does great on sole triangle output or pixel counts category but in real world games required improvement

---------- Post added at 03:18 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:12 PM ----------

None of these soc are future ready. SOC at best can serve you good for 1 year (little less than that) and after that you will start to see the benchmark set higher further diminishing the SOC in question.

As far as goodness is concerned that you may get out of the technology implementation in a SOC usually takes a cycle of 1.5 year after which the real next level of SOC will be available. So at best, you can drag a SOC not more than 2 years because by that time it is fully obsolete :)
[Galaxy Note 4 General] Cosmos81:
That sounds logical to me, whats is new now is going to be, obsolete in just a matter of time, but with Lollipop now in 64 bit, when I am correct, which one is the better suitable for that.
[Galaxy Note 4 General] gekkehenkie11:
You make it sound like that's why Adreno outperforms mali cause it can draw some triangles quickly. May I remind you that pretty much all gfx benchmarks try to simulate real world as closely as possible, by actually drawing a real world ? If it would only draw some triangles, what would be the use of gfx benchmarks anyway ? They exist to give people an idea about gaming performance and they benchmark fps when drawing real world examples of games.

---------- Post added at 03:51 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:41 PM ----------

None of them will ever have 64 bit support. Theoretically there's a chance that the exynos will have it but there are so many arguments to not do it, like:

* They would have done it already

* It will only lead to disappointment: disappointment by Exynos users cause it didnt yield much improvement. And disappointment by snapdragon users cause the other chipset got 64 bit

* They'd shoot their own foot: always better to sell new phones with 64 bit instead of giving it away for free, that's just bad business.

But some still seem to think 64 bit is coming for the Eyxnos with the 5.1 update that's supposed to come out next week (so officially on samsung in 3-4 months). I'd say, if you want 64 bits, just buy the galaxy s6 next week instead.
[Galaxy Note 4 General] midreestaj:
I agree with the purpose of benchmarks that you have stated however concept of future proofing in a SOC discussed earlier also has a direct relation with it, in the regards that what the GPU present in particular SOC is meant to process throughout the Android phone's life

Unlike desktop PC we here are talking of something totally of short life span. It is here where we can expect a good GPU to perform good during its life span in the available 3D titles on Android today. More than that is just not needed not required if we keep in mind the life span of a certain model of Android phone. Now talking relative to the subject of this thread, Adreno is suffering from a set of issues which are not there in the case of Mali so we see a higher smoother and sustainable good performance compared to Adreno. It just delivers better than Adreno in the real 3D games which we have to play after downloading from Play Store
[Galaxy Note 4 General] alex3run:
You want it to be like that but in fact the reality differs from what you say.

But why do you ignore facts like YouTube gaming comparisons or so on? Maybe because they do not coincide with your own reality? ;)
[Galaxy Note 4 General] gekkehenkie11:
Fair enough. Life span of phones is definitely shorter and good 3d titlels more scarce. If you buy a phone just to play a specific game with it, it might the best to look at the performance on that specific game. gfx benchmarks try to measure 3d capabilities, not necessarily used by the developers of the game you like.

But that's just not true. Again, maybe in the game of your choice. But the performance of the chipset is clearly there, which is why Adreno outperforms Mali on most gfx benchmarks.

---------- Post added at 04:09 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:08 PM ----------

I'm not ignoring anything. I've never said that Adreno is better in all circumstances. It really depends on the developer to make use of the capabilities of the hardware.
[Galaxy Note 4 General] midreestaj:
You prefer CM over TW you go for the SOC that is more developer friendly... likewise .. you need to play games on Android Mali T760 is the top dog in the game for now :)
[Galaxy Note 4 General] alex3run:
Okay. Choose some games and run them through Gamebench. Then post here results of your gaming tests (with GPU load also).

I could do some tests too but it would be unfair as on stock ROM/kernel there is a bug when DVFS limits GPU frequency to 266 MHz after a few minutes of gaming though SoC temperature isn't very high.
[Galaxy Note 4 General] gekkehenkie11:
Hehe I never play games. I'm just stating that a gfx benchmark always tries to depict the capabilities of gaming hardware as accurately as possible. Usually this means that these are features and API's not being used in current games, cause they're , you know, new ! :) But if current games don't use any of those API's/capabilities, yeah surely they won't perform as well.

It's really up to the developer to make use of the capabilities ...
[Galaxy Note 4 General] alex3run:
Don't think that benchmark developers take into account some architectual features of particular GPUs. But game developers have to. That's why benchmarks are quite unfair.
[Galaxy Note 4 General] gekkehenkie11:
It's their business: to try to use new hardware features to predict the next generation games performance. How better they're at that, the more popular they become and more money they make.
[Galaxy Note 4 General] midreestaj:
Have monitored RR3 lately and its right from the cold start. And not to mention even then I doubt it will give higher FPS compared to Adreno ? Can some one upload a session on RR3 from SD Note 4?
[Galaxy Note 4 General] alex3run:
Mine runs RR3 at 160 MHz and even then the GPU doesn't reach 100% load.

This game is poor optimized.
[Galaxy Note 4 General] midreestaj:
On RR3 majority of the time GPU stayed at 266 MHz while the dips were as low as 160 MHz and frame rates were as high as 48fps and as low as 27fps and averaged at 42fps. While the GPU load averaged out at 75% Game play was as smooth as one can imagine..

On Asphalt 8 it was better. GPU load peaked at 100% averaged at 80% while the GPU frequency maxed out at 420 MHz it averaged around 350 MHz .. Frame rates were max 60fps min 57fps .. one could call it ideal performance
[Galaxy Note 4 General] alex3run:
I have similar situation with Asphalt but RR3 lags on my Note 4 while the GPU wasn't running on its max even at 160 MHz.

What ROM and/or kernel are you using?
[Galaxy Note 4 General] midreestaj:
Both these tests were made on ANK5 stock Kitkat ROM and stock kernel, non-rooted. Haven't tested on LP yet
[Galaxy Note 4 General] Mumraa:
So I got a exynos note 4 - yay. But I can't seem to find any info on if I need to change regions etc.? It's from Lithuania and I'm in the UK it is new .. Thanks! UK usually are the f versions...So I'm thinking do I just do a csc change and that's it? Sorry if it's a bit noob I've been out of the loop for a while...looks like I got the Baltic csc at the moment.
[Galaxy Note 4 General] gekkehenkie11:
So I just tried it, 27 fps is the minimum in game here too, but I see max of 55 fps. Average isn't relevant cause it keeps measuring when you're not racing (so it doesnt measure fps).

If you want we can compare some more games ? I'm downloading 'real boxing' as we speak
[Galaxy Note 4 General] Lodix:
How are you measuring GPU frequency ??

And sorry gekkehenkie but after all I have read from you I don't trust your words without proves.
[Galaxy Note 4 General] willowpc:
Actually,the name of the device is Moto Droid Turbo, Maxx it's show he is called here in Brazil... the Droid Turbo have a Snadragon 805, 3GB of RAM, Adreno 420, 64GB of internal memory, 3900 mah battery and a almost AOSP ROM. It's the phone for you haha

and a note 4 with AOSP ROM will never be a killer phone, would be just a bigger and with no features normal phone, like the Nexus 6.

Why you want a 3GB RAM, Snapdragon 805 for run a AOSP ROM ? Even a snapdragon 800 can easily gives you the same experience/speed that a snapdragon 805 has... for much less money...

Killer phone ? Yeah, a phone that the dialer/contacts/message/settings/camera (trash software camera, like we find in any AOSP ROM), gallery, etc etc etc exactly equal what you would find in any low-end phone, such a moto G, moto E, etc...

Why have such power and excellent hardware just for a AOSP ROM ? it's like you buy a ferrari to don't run faster than 15 miles/h, why you want such power if the software that you will use will never use this power for nothing, even a Moto G with snapdragon 400 opens apps with a different of less than 1-2 seconds compared to high-end phones...

Yeahh, you are using the excellent display of the Note 4 as excuse, but mostly of the users, actually, i guess, 95%, will never feel that difference, you will see a difference if you put two devices side by side, with the full brightness, and look so closely, that you will able to see the pixels, and then you will find a difference.
[Galaxy Note 4 General] gekkehenkie11:
Sure. I have attached the results during game play.
[Galaxy Note 4 General] gekkehenkie11:
Ah, that phone indeed makes more sense to compare to the Note 4. Very nice phone indeed ! However only with subscription of Verizon, it doesnt even seem to be for sale in the Netherlands, so tell me, how would I even buy that ? I can't buy it in my country or the Netherlands, I can't buy it from the US .. I don't even think it comes without contract at all ? But yeah, if i could choose, this indeed would be more my kind of phone ! :) But I'm also really happy with my Note 4, so no regrets here and in fact, I really like the huge screen of the Note 4 (that phone you post has 5.2", that would be the biggest disadvantage to me). The 5'7 of the Note 4 seems to be my ideal size. Bigger would be too big, much smaller too small, so my next phone probably will be in the 5.5-.57" range too.

---------- Post added at 08:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:38 PM ----------

Anyway, all this talk about how all those gfx benchmarks that show that Snapdragon is faster in 3d are wrong and it's only about gaming fps and how Snapdragon would be horrible at that. And then the very first game I measure, it beats the Exynos, yeah I kinda find that funny :D But I realize this is only one game, we could test 5-10 random games from 2014-2015 and compare Snapdragon vs Exynos fps ? Sounds fair ? What do you say [MENTION=1401140]midreestaj[/MENTION] ?
[Galaxy Note 4 General] Lodix:
Nobody has deny that the Adreno has more raw power than the Mali, just that it performs better in games.

And someone posted a video already comparing both and Exynos was better.

Edit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-Q7Cql_sLo
[Galaxy Note 4 General] gekkehenkie11:
And in the very first game I test, Adreno performs better than Mali :D But if people would like to test more,let's do it ! Let's take 5-10 recent games from 2014-2015 and do the test ! Cause all that BS that somehow the Adreno only outperforms in benchmarks but then doesnt in games, that makes no sense at all.
[Galaxy Note 4 General] -Sweeper_:
RR3 always saw similar performance between the two, and you're running an AOSP ROM. Try Snapdragon 805 @ Touchwiz like the majority of users use daily for a proper GPU comparison. Next games could be Asphalt 8 and GTA San Andreas.
[Galaxy Note 4 General] Lodix:
We don't even know if he has OC the GPU xD
[Galaxy Note 4 General] tmac31:
1st if you wanna do some testing do it atleast on stock Different rom , kernels has different cpu/gpu controls.

2nd if you are gonna do a test in game you should be sure you are testing with everything same in game. Games like rr3 has different detail levels which decided by game and you cant change. And you should test same track car race etc. cuz generally fps goes down while there is alot of cars and increase while you are alone in track and changes with part of track etc.

3rd i didnt test rr3 in near time but when i tested exynos was had 27 average snapdragon had 23 average it was laggy on both. And i didnt check gpu but cpu was running with a53 cores only and phone was very cold. Game wasnt pushing gpu/cpu to limits i guess.
[Galaxy Note 4 General] gekkehenkie11:
Actually that's a good point, different position in the race (and hence more or less other cars visible) will influence FPS. That's why I think it makes much more sense to use a gfx benchmark, cause that's always comparing the same scenery, but you guys are saying those results are incorrect :D So, not sure how you'd go to compare them fair then in gaming where details and thus fps are dependent on what you do in the game.

And about the ROM: I both agree and disagree: I agree if you want to purely test hardware you'd need to use the same OS. But I also disagree, cause THE biggest advantage (in my opinion) of snapdragon is that you actually CAN run custom ROM. But I can understand why you'd like to test it on stock android, I wouldn't mind. But problem stays: how do you do test fair when fps is a direct result of your movement in the game ?

---------- Post added at 12:08 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:04 AM ----------

Nope, no overclock. If you want we could also try again with overclocked settings.
[Galaxy Note 4 General] SLMI:
Man RR3 has a lot of things that affects performance, for example you can get ALMOST 60fps from bonet or bumper cam( im saying that cuz i experienced it) but from outside camera frames are dropping so much, and you cant just show a specific frame and say this one is better than another one, and also as seen in the later frames your fps was dropped to 30s, even with the bonet cam, if you gonna do a comparison, make it fair, you're comments totally makes nonsense at all
[Galaxy Note 4 General] gekkehenkie11:
Eh ? That's my whole point. Can you quote what I say that doesnt make sense please ? Or just shut up instead cause then you are just trolling. Thanks.
[Galaxy Note 4 General] Lodix:
Can you just see the video that I posted before ?
[Galaxy Note 4 General] Jonny:
Some of you have short memories.

Seeing as y'all are acting like a bunch of kids here's some ground rules:

Keep it polite and respectful - that means don't tell other users to "shut up" or worse. It also means not bashing users for their opinions or calling them names or any other form of abuse.

Don't troll.

Obey they forum rules (duh?).

This is the 2nd warning you guys have had, lets call it the "2nd strike" - lets not get to the "strike 3 and you're out" stage shall we? ;)
[Galaxy Note 4 General] Ausboy 2011:
Nice 1 jonny ;)
[Galaxy Note 4 General] gekkehenkie11:
Thanks Jonny

---------- Post added at 12:59 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:54 AM ----------

Anyway, so how to do this. You guys claim that those gfx bench marks are all wrong and incorrect and the only way to test 3d hardware performance is to do ingame tests. I'm up with that, but how do to it correctly ? Quite difficult I'm afraid.

1) It must be exact same level, being played exactly the same, looking left instead of right could cause huge frame difference already

2) Both devices would need to be cooled down equally before playing, otherwise thermal throttling would mess up the results.

3) About ROM/kernel, not sure what's the best. Like said, the biggest advantage of Snapdragon is (in my opinion) you can run custom ROM. To just ignore that advantage doesn't make much sense, especially if that advantage was one (or THE) reason to go for the snapdragon. But I also get it that if you SOLELY want to measure hardware, it's better to use same ROM's . So stock Touchwiz 5.0.1

4) Probably run 5-10 recent games ? All 2014-2015, cause like somebody correctly noted, phones have a short lifespan, so we want modern stuff.

Any more idea's ?
[Galaxy Note 4 General] midreestaj:
Tested RR3 on stock LP BOB4 (Poland)and stock kernel, Exynos here.

Performance is worse than stock KK ANK5 firmware. Eliminating the spikes (high: 50 fps, low 20fps) majority of the time RR3 is lingering on 25-30fps. Not that there is actual lag factor but the smoothness in the graphics play is definitely gone. In stock KK setup fps were settling around 40+ and game play was utterly smooth...

So for now we have a bad RR3 setup until the next update may be lets see :)
[Galaxy Note 4 General] alex3run:
What's the track?

Where is GPU freq (you can use Cool Tool for this) and load?

---------- Post added at 06:16 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:14 AM ----------

Lol... You haven't even waited for Exynos test...
[Galaxy Note 4 General] midreestaj:
For any upcoming tests from SD and Exynos users, please provide correct data otherwise testing will serve no purpose; No overclocking and no down sampling of pixels to 1080p. Please also confirm Kernel and O.S details if anything other than stock setup is used
[Galaxy Note 4 General] hashcheck:
Who cares the note 4 of any variants kicks the but of other phones. Let's just compare results..... I got the AUS 910g model sd805 and absolutely love it and gearvr is a must buy everyone. The GPU in these phones blows me away

-= Note 4 & Gear VR =-
[Galaxy Note 4 General] dondavis007:
One thing I've noticed is the slowdowns in pretty simple games like the hobbit. After a while it the phone just slows down, have to be something lollipopish because haven't noticed this behavior before. Looks like extrem throttling to me. Anyone playing the same game pretty hard on Exynos with LP?

Sent by a mobile gadget...
[Galaxy Note 4 General] tmac31:
So you said arguing is useless but wrote that useless comment?

We shouldnt care about antutu(yes ofc) but you say "i got 55k antutu" wow gratz then.

Everyone bought exynos shouldnt do that again(you said dont argue in 1st line if im not wrong) yes people shouldnt buy new s6. People shouldnt buy pretty much anything else but nexus if they just skip oem skins and go for aosp. I used htc one m7 sense was awesome i didnt need aosp in anyway. Aosp is just old. And now with note 4 i dont have a single problem with touchwiz its fast its stable and reliable.

And i dont understand what people expecting from cpu upgrades who ever comes this thread to defend say " snapdragon exynos launches apps 0.5 sec but i dont care" did you ever try your older phone? I think people just sell their old phone and live in a dream. Your 1 year old ex-phone was barely 0.5 sec slower too but you bought your brand new " super fast " device right? Note 3 snapdragon and note 4 snapdragon has pretty much same speed with 5.0 tw. And just no difference with aosp. You can say but i have 2k screen etc yes but exynos note 4 has it too and still faster. Its how 1 generation newer cpu effects you cant expect a 10 sec difference in launching an app. Like how long it takes to load twitter app in slowest device anyway 2 sec? so that 0.5 sec difference between exynos and s805 is a big difference. And dont say you dont care about it you install aosp to gain back that speed.

Every1 knows snapdragon note 4 has aosp choice but its still not best aosp experience you can get from a device too. Just buy a cheap nexus 5 next to your note 4 so you wont waste your time for waiting a rom to be stable for months.

Btw im not judging anyone who bought snapdragon. Im sure people out there having fun with it and they should. You want aosp on your phone im ok with it and i dont care but i dont want it. I dont care about having an aosp choice too. So telling people to"dont do that mistake again" is stupid..
[Galaxy Note 4 General] alex3run:
Yeah, noticed this also. The 3D performance on Lollipop is worse than on Kitkat. Noticed also graphical artefacts (flickering textures) in some games.
[Galaxy Note 4 General] tmac31:
Probably game problem if you dint have gpu power saving bug. Cuz lollipop is gettng better gpu scores generaly than kitkat.

---------- Post added at 03:46 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:29 PM ----------

Cuz i never talk about other people's experiance i never judge something from a video. I generaly do tests myself when i said exynos had 27 fps average snapdragon had 23 average phones were side by side and in same condition and everything was same in game too.

I dont say something if im not sure myself. Like i said earlier 2-3 min 4k record throttles s805 to half frequinces you didnt believe 1st too then you tested yourself and then confirm yourself too.

And about gpu benchmarks i never said they are wrong i said they just dont show game performance its all. And btw can you do a gfxbench manhattan/trex (onscreen and offscreen) on cm and share
[Galaxy Note 4 General] -Sweeper_:
Tab S 2 9.7'' leak @ GFXBench: www.sammobile.com/2015/02/24/samsung-galaxy-tab-s-2-9-7-sm-t815-appears-on-benchmark/#comment-58355

It is based on Exynos 5433 (1.9GHz A57 + Mali T760MP6). I would be really surprised if Samsung new $400-500 2015 iPad competitors don't support 64-bit, especially after the 64-bit buzz thats probably going to happen after S6's announcement/launch in March/April.