yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Moto G Android Development] h2o64:
I don't know guys. Because I haven't my Moto G yet.

Remember that's a WIP project, so it may can't boot.

So --> yes

;)
[Moto G Android Development] luteriace:
Come on!!
[Moto G Android Development] S0bes:
It must boots!

OP deserve huge thanks for trying and trying all this awesome stuff for our device.
[Moto G Android Development] bobrda:
cant stay 2 day on stock rom :D

phone is full charged, waiting for upload
[Moto G Android Development] luteriace:
Same here
[Moto G Android Development] h2o64:
;)

Soon !!!
[Moto G Android Development] kerem0:
Waiting . . . :)
[Moto G Android Development] luteriace:
Its uploaded yeaaah!!

Edt: you are bad [MENTION=4792450]h2o64[/MENTION] is a simple folder jajajajajajja
[Moto G Android Development] kerem0:
LOL :D :D
[Moto G Android Development] h2o64:
TROLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

62% --> done in 1h15
[Moto G Android Development] kerem0:
Good We Are İn Here Waiting :)

How much %?
[Moto G Android Development] luteriace:
Good
[Moto G Android Development] Taikun hearth:
Awesome here is 4.08 pm
[Moto G Android Development] bogante:
Finally I'm alive, waiting for testing prince.
[Moto G Android Development] h2o64:
New build uploaded :

CHANGELOG :
- new proprietary things
- new boot.img for debugging

MIUIv6_falcon-20140829_Alpha3.zip
[Moto G Android Development] Mister Muscle:
Good, :D
[Moto G Android Development] Lucas Eugene:
Does it boot
[Moto G Android Development] bogante:
it's not booting, bootloop like before.
[Moto G Android Development] Mchasard:
Clean install?
[Moto G Android Development] h2o64:
I go rescue back my falcon in a hour.

I'll take logs.
[Moto G Android Development] bogante:
i want MIUI 6 for my ducking cellphone omg, i hope you can do that.
[Moto G Android Development] Zerelth:
Hmm...let's wait XD
[Moto G Android Development] sub77:
logcat:
[Moto G Android Development] sub77:
i copied /system/bin/installd from LS Rom and got no more symbol error msg.

---------- Post added at 09:45 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:39 AM ----------

logcat line :50

D/dalvikvm( 3048): Trying to load lib libjavacore.so 0x0

D/dalvikvm( 3048): Added shared lib libjavacore.so 0x0

E/dalvikvm( 3048): ERROR: couldn't find native method

E/dalvikvm( 3048): Requested: Llibcore/icu/ICU;.getDisplayScriptNative:(Ljava/lang/String;Ljava/lang/String;)Ljava/lang/String;

E/dalvikvm( 3048): JNI posting fatal error: RegisterNatives failed for 'libcore/icu/ICU'; aborting...

I/dalvikvm( 3048): Can't dump thread 1: threadObj not set

E/dalvikvm( 3048): VM aborting

which service starts the gui?
[Moto G Android Development] sub77:
I hope you understand something, I'm not too good at this.. xD[/QUOTE]

understood, thanks
[Moto G Android Development] h2o64:
Awesome !!!!
[Moto G Android Development] bogante:
MIUI incoming (-8
[Moto G Android Development] xGMERZ:
Amazing! Hope to see some great work :D Excited for MIUI! Been watching aha
[Moto G Android Development] Black_Eyes:
Or simply you can try libjavacore.so and libjavacrypto.so from CM :)
[Moto G Android Development] ralp88:
is it working now ?
[Moto G Android Development] DG|Buu:
WIP

One Help,Before You Post Any Rom. Ask Reviews From User After Testing And Please Tell In The Thread If Boots (or) Not.

It Helps Fellow Users
[Moto G Android Development] h2o64:
No probs
[Moto G Android Development] s.sawrav:
So can we expect a new build today?

BTW congratulations for the phone.
[Moto G Android Development] h2o64:
I'm building hard :p

Next one will boot for sure :S
[Moto G Android Development] luteriace:
I love you!!
[Moto G Android Development] h2o64:
[MENTION=5439115]xmattjus[/MENTION] --> impossible

[MENTION=5216879]Black_Eyes[/MENTION] --> Create an other serioux error

[MENTION=4792450]h2o64[/MENTION] --> core.jar from cm : thanks to [MENTION=3452732]timmytim[/MENTION]
[Moto G Android Development] Zerelth:
So next build will come at...?
[Moto G Android Development] h2o64:
i don't know !
[Moto G Android Development] pkprasanna:
Have some one tried for Avatar rom which has capabilities of theming like MIUI and contains features from CM

And it will be easier to port it cause its based on CM (i ported it to my older device very simply no need of patching or messsing with frameworks)
[Moto G Android Development] h2o64:
I want a fully MIUI coce based ROM :p
[Moto G Android Development] xGMERZ:
Would be lovely, fully dedicated tester here :)
[Moto G Android Development] dexterdre:
I like people who know what they want. thanks for your hard work:good::good:
[Moto G Android Development] RuKiO:
First thank you for bringing this amazing ROM.

I'm unable to install it from GPE and US stock alpha last able to do the flash but freezes on the boot screen MI
[Moto G Android Development] h2o64:
The ROM isn't booting yet ...

"[WIP]"
[Moto G Android Development] sbhas2k:
All the best. Hope we'll have a fully working rom soon

Sent from XT1033 India
[Moto G Android Development] Black_Eyes:
Are you building it with CM or AOSP?
[Moto G Android Development] RuKiO:
sorry did not realize thank
[Moto G Android Development] h2o64:
Thanks

From CM
[Moto G Android Development] Awesomeslayerg:
Hey at least the ROM boots until the animation screen right? We're making progress slowly :)
[Moto G Android Development] shayonpal:
Frozen on boot screen

Even in my case, the ROM is freezing in the boot screen with the MI logo on it :(
[Moto G Android Development] h2o64:
FlymeOS and MIUI are bootanimating. I'm fixing bugs ;) (long process...)

PS : MIUI in priority because, it's easier to debug
[Moto G Android Development] fermasia:
The makeover to the op is a bit misleading. Screenshots... saying a rom is in "testing stage" would mean, regardless the bugs you might find, that at least, it boots. There's nothing to be tested yet, as far as I can see. Looks like you are painting the walls and hanging the pantings before building the basement.

Still, good luck with your work. I'm not very interested in MIUI for philosophical reasons, but I allways appreciate people's efforts.
[Moto G Android Development] shayonpal:
Now, I am planning to install Mokee on the same device, but not sure how do I copy the ROM in the phone's storage. Any help?﻿

Additionally, I'm not even able to switch off the device. If I try to switch it off by pressing the power button for 10 seconds, then it just restarts!

God! How much I miss the phones with removable battery.
[Moto G Android Development] h2o64:
Fun fact : I found you while search about a bug .. :p
[Moto G Android Development] h2o64:
I'll remove the screenshots.
[Moto G Android Development] Notorious:
Hi make sure you include the miuisecurity libs and libsechook.so to fix the miui security error
[Moto G Android Development] Awesomeslayerg:
Remember to use propiarety binaries as well
[Moto G Android Development] h2o64:
Already use them from Muppets

What do you mean ?
[Moto G Android Development] Notorious:
You must include libsechook.so from miui to fix MIUI security error
[Moto G Android Development] h2o64:
Sorry I read wrong .. :'( ...
[Moto G Android Development] Black_Eyes:
can you try replacing

system/lib/libdvm.so

bin/dalvikvm

bin/dexopt

bin/dex2oat

xbin/dexdump

from miui ?

---------- Post added at 12:46 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:42 AM ----------

Or can you give me the link to miui v6?

So , i can try by myself :)
[Moto G Android Development] h2o64:
[MENTION=5216879]Black_Eyes[/MENTION] logcat after changes :
[Moto G Android Development] edsingm:
I hope this work soon.... Great job devs...
[Moto G Android Development] Zerelth:
So, how is it going?
[Moto G Android Development] Black_Eyes:
You haven't replaced much things....

Porting MIUI 6 is way Harder as said by zdunx
[Moto G Android Development] h2o64:
I know.

I've fix 50 bugs. Decompiling framework.jar :p
[Moto G Android Development] deeplyyoung:
Good Luck:good::good:
[Moto G Android Development] Zerelth:
Porting MIUI v6 is not easy, so if there are bugs, it's not unexpected. That's why I admire your efforts, h2o64 :D. Anyway, Good luck.
[Moto G Android Development] h2o64:
It's getting harder and harder :'( ...
[Moto G Android Development] Zerelth:
God bless you D:

Btw, does the Flyme OS thing gets something new?
[Moto G Android Development] h2o64:
I've kind of rage quit MIUI for today.

I'll work on FlyMe Os
[Moto G Android Development] Zerelth:
Like that? XD
[Moto G Android Development] h2o64:
Nope ^^ I've get a booting thing ... And it's gone after reboot ...

In France : #VDM (#LifeIs****)
[Moto G Android Development] Angel_Alonso:
Boot?
[Moto G Android Development] h2o64:
Nope

That will change a lot of things ...
[Moto G Android Development] bogante:
Exactly what?
[Moto G Android Development] h2o64:
I'll change my base ROm to the Xiamo Mi3 one.

That's not very a big deal ^^

BTW : To have a nice base, I'm looking for a completly Vanilla AOSP 4.4.4 ROM
[Moto G Android Development] TeamMex:
send me updater-script GPE uses Ext 4 instead of F2FS :)
[Moto G Android Development] h2o64:
Here there are ! :D

PS : We know that it sues ext4 ... So I need to make two different build editions ?
[Moto G Android Development] TeamMex:
nope

i added patch for f2fs :) if you can I can try to help you =)

https://github.com/Klozz/patchrom_tools/

you can use F2FS and make a assert if is normal moto G use F2FS if it is a GPE use Ext4 :)

fork my tools I add tomorrow the patch for assertions :)

i'm go to sleep now
[Moto G Android Development] h2o64:
As always you are the best.

I won't use patchroom. Because I want MIUI V6.

To do this, I need to port it from Xiaomi device.

I first base on an old v6 from Xiaomi Mi3, using falcon's CM11 nightlies (2014-08-21) ... But the Theme Manager things from CM11 are just annoying.

So I'm preparing a new build wich uses a fully vanilla rom the GPE's one + the lastest MIUI V6 from here.

When I'm stuck. I'll post things here.

PS : Can't see your patch .. :'(
[Moto G Android Development] TeamMex:
I add it tomorrow xD

but try to port Nexus 5 miui becasue falcon use some parts of the socs msms8974 :)
[Moto G Android Development] h2o64:
This awesome guy ( [MENTION=4899556]David_Vaz[/MENTION]) give me the motivation to do this.

You mean. Use his port to port mine ?
[Moto G Android Development] TeamMex:
yep but first remember you need use base of 4.4.2 because Miui is 4.4.2 rom and if you use a 4.4.3 or 4.4.4 the rom not boot.

if you try with 4.4.2 and not work try to make port from N5 :)

and don't forget copy Falcon libs :)

cheers
[Moto G Android Development] h2o64:
Not a prob but ... Are you sure MIUI isn't base on KTU84P ?

I know my work bro' :p :D x))

PS : N5 one is based on KVT49L
[Moto G Android Development] h2o64:
By the way, if somebody as pa_falcon-4.1-BETA-20140303.zip please send it me ;)
[Moto G Android Development] Sk.D:
Why don't you take rom of redmi 1s? It's almost similar to Moto g.

Best of luck.

-Regards Sk.d
[Moto G Android Development] h2o64:
He isn't supporting 4.4.4 (MIUIv6)
[Moto G Android Development] Sk.D:
First lets try with v5, and if u succeed (hope so) then can go for v6. :) .
[Moto G Android Development] h2o64:
Thinking about it... I think the problems will be the same.

My actual priority is to find a 4.4.4 ROM fully AOSP/VANILLA .... I'm thinking about building one myself ..
[Moto G Android Development] :
Here

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=2623971
[Moto G Android Development] h2o64:
That's 4.4.2... But I find what I wanted ! :D
[Moto G Android Development] h2o64:
So ..

I've ported MIUI v6 with th GPE 4.4.4 ROM as base. I won't boot.

I can make it booting. But I need logcat to do that.

So I add the correct things persist.sys.usb.config= adb over the boot.img file. Now it's 3 mo less (10.5 mo to 8.2). That's wierd... And more of that : that hasn't work ! (My Moto G isn't a GPE converted. And I want my ROM to be GPE/STOCK proof). So I think that's a kernel incompatibility problem.

I tried the CM boot.img (4.4.4) with persist.sys.usb.config= adb, I add a logcat and he said

@h2o64 That's not a good idea. Found another way.

Can anyone help me ?
[Moto G Android Development] Black_Eyes:
Lol

Just Calm Down and stop This Project Until Some developers can get MIUI v6 to some Devices
[Moto G Android Development] h2o64:
Nexus 5, LG G2 already have.

I won't giving up.
[Moto G Android Development] Antieco:
Many thanks for your hard work! Looking forward to see miui v6 running on my Moto g!
[Moto G Android Development] lukenvidal:
But, he don't is compatible with falcon_umts
[Moto G Android Development] Zerelth:
Thanks for your perseverance anyway.

But for some reason, although our device came with the near-stock Android, while the LG G2 came with a heavily-modified UI, we still encounter problems in porting roms...(Maybe it's just our devs aren't enough, there was tons of them on those two devices)
[Moto G Android Development] abhifx:
why not try asking the devs for that device? personally moto g has stumped me (or the new miui) cause porting to Chinese phones with jb roms were ton easier.
[Moto G Android Development] mario156090:
Boot now?
[Moto G Android Development] dexterdre:
No bro
[Moto G Android Development] mario156090:
Thank's friend for you answer
[Moto G Android Development] dsigman:
Oneplus One Miui v5 for android 4.4

Any chance at taking a look ant the new Miui v5 port for the Oneplus One???

CM11 M9 is its base. Very similar hardware!
[Moto G Android Development] bogante:
Our beloved prince don't want V5.
[Moto G Android Development] h2o64:
I'll concentrate a bit on the V5

Because I'm very near to the end.
[Moto G Android Development] kiranforu:
Make v5 works on our device! We can update to v6 later! We are eagerly waiting for MIUI on our beloved Moto G. Thank you for your great work!

And, Redmi 1S has exact configuration as ours! You can consider build over that, hope it would be easier to build!
[Moto G Android Development] h2o64:
I'll look.
[Moto G Android Development] Zerelth:
Anyway, was MIUI v5 based on 4.3?

If it is, you can use Infusion rom for base, as it was based on 4.3 too.
[Moto G Android Development] rithvikreddy.p:
Where can i get MIUI V6 launcher. Please give a link ? Im not able to download from offical MIUI site... :confused:

sent from my XT 1033 from XDA Android
[Moto G Android Development] h2o64:
V5 can be based on Kitkat. Wich is better.

But if anyone have a Vanilla ROM 4.4.4, say it please (wich hasn't the ThemeManager things)
[Moto G Android Development] kiranforu:
MIUi Express Link

Wrong thread bro! Don't polute this thread. You can post these requests in General thread. Anyways, here is the link for you,

http://en.miui.com/thread-39149-1-1.html
[Moto G Android Development] Zerelth:
Weren't there already a untouched rom?
[Moto G Android Development] h2o64:
Yes .. I tried ... But I had troubles. It's GPE only (kernel + boot things)
[Moto G Android Development] Black_Eyes:
Search a bit..

It's MIUI v5 Bro not Miui v6 :)
[Moto G Android Development] h2o64:
I've search. I've anlazing the ZIP files. I've contacted the dev.

Because of XDA policy. It can't be called : MIUI v6.

But the RES Package (frameworks) came from MIUI v6.
[Moto G Android Development] Black_Eyes:
Lol Bro :D It's not like that

Read it and it will help you to Understand

http://xdaforums.com/showpost.php?p=54990374&postcount=678

Just try v5 Port , it will boot
[Moto G Android Development] h2o64:
I still believing.

But I'll work on MIUI v5 anyway ... I have some ideas.
[Moto G Android Development] h2o64:
[MENTION=5216879]Black_Eyes[/MENTION] You make me thinking. You seems to be somebody who know things to help me.

I've search. And research.

I can make MIUI v5 for sure could you help me ? Why don't use patchrom ? If we don't, which BASE, which PORT ?

4.4.2 ? 4.4.4 ? 4.3 ?

What I want is this :

ro.miui.ui.version.code=4
ro.miui.ui.version.name=V6

And I think they are due to -res.apk

But first, a regular MIUIv5 port ?

PS : I've already setup a patchrom, ready to make patches
[Moto G Android Development] Black_Eyes:
Try with Patchrom first

Btw These lines

ro.miui.ui.version.code=3

ro.miui.ui.version.name=V5

4.4.x doesn't matter

Just Android Api must be same i.e 19 for KK

---------- Post added at 12:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:55 PM ----------

You can Use CM11 as Base .... and Which device is more similar to Falcon?
[Moto G Android Development] h2o64:
Call you back when it's booting or if I have an un-solvable issue.

PS : My first patchrom thing was base on an unbooting ROM .-.

LG G2 Mini, Galaxy S4 Mini.

MSM8226 is the most important thing
[Moto G Android Development] Black_Eyes:
Do you have a Fb?
[Moto G Android Development] h2o64:
Yes .. But .. It's private. Skype ? Hanghout ?
[Moto G Android Development] Black_Eyes:
Nope..

PM me your Fb so i can contact...

I don't use skype and Hangouts...

Facepalm xD :P
[Moto G Android Development] h2o64:
Done
[Moto G Android Development] h2o64:
Redmi 1S is based on Jb isn't ?

OmniROM is a better choice than CM11 ? What about xt1033 support ?
[Moto G Android Development] h2o64:
That's no useless !! :D

What about Nexus 5 ? I had the lastest MIUI update wich is very interessting (first I try patchrom).

PA work with xt1033 know O_o ?

Nexus 5's MIUI v5 dev said me that he used PA. But the new Theme Engine thing break everything !
[Moto G Android Development] h2o64:
I'll first use CM11 M5.

And next PA 4.3-BETA7 ;)
[Moto G Android Development] andogeek10:
No XT1033 support on pa. ROM's supporting XT1033:

1.CM

2.Mokee

3. N5X ( CM version)

4. Gummy
[Moto G Android Development] h2o64:
Good to know. Will try CM11 so.
[Moto G Android Development] Black_Eyes:
CM11 is the Best idea
[Moto G Android Development] Forever Alone:
OP I think you should mentioned if the ROM is booting or not because when we see Screenshots, it appears that it's booting and best of luck for your ROM. Good work.:D:D:D:D
[Moto G Android Development] Black_Eyes:
Don't mention again again...

"WIP" Means it all

and SS are just for How Exactly MIUI looks :)
[Moto G Android Development] h2o64:
Already done.

Yeah. I think so.
[Moto G Android Development] reversegear:
tried porting MIUIv5 using this guide unable to get it boot with CM as a base and miui from nexus4

anyways im on the job porting form omini rom (latest is released) hope for the best :)
[Moto G Android Development] ghost9685:
Good luck man., we all love to have MIUI on our Moto G
[Moto G Android Development] h2o64:
Thanks. I'm patching

SOOOOOOOOOOOOO ANOYING !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[Moto G Android Development] MadL1fe:
You can do it...I believe...this is awesome
[Moto G Android Development] h2o64:
I hope ^^

Did somebody have a music playlist (like Monstercat things) because I listen music while working, and I starting to listen always the same musics.
[Moto G Android Development] :
Get all the help you need to port this rom..

Here..ask this guy...

http://xdaforums.com/xperia-m/development/miui-v5-4-8-15-t2861811/post55122526
[Moto G Android Development] h2o64:
Thanks but

They are 3.

I want to do it myself :D
[Moto G Android Development] :
Seems great!

If you want music you could use Soundcloud, it makes good recommendations after you heard few titles which you like ^^
[Moto G Android Development] h2o64:
I know ^^ Just want a playlist :p

Finally it's usefull : give me that wich help me a bit :p
[Moto G Android Development] dams161:
attends je vais essayer de lui demander on a travailler sur une rom miui pour le xperia U (pour la traduction)
[Moto G Android Development] h2o64:
Okay :D
[Moto G Android Development] Awesomeslayerg:
Good luck and I know you can do it because I love people who don't give up :). Remember we all support you.
[Moto G Android Development] :
This guy is OP so...try him...

http://xdaforums.com/member.php?u=4963954
[Moto G Android Development] Forever Alone:
Hi Black Eyes, WIP can be confused with 'bug fixes after the rom is booting'. WIP doesn't mean that the rom isn't booting., :)
[Moto G Android Development] h2o64:
Hi strike everything : that mean not booting.
[Moto G Android Development] h2o64:
Just finishing those patches .. I'm tired. School begin tomorrow.

I'll go sleeping. Don't know if it's boot. But I know I mess up one patch PhoneWindowManager$17.smali.patch.
[Moto G Android Development] MadL1fe:
Good night )
[Moto G Android Development] h2o64:
UPDATE

I keep you updated.

I've made a flashable ZIP.. Wich won't exit the bootloader screen.

I assume that's a perms problem because the last_kmsg say me that /system/bin is inacessable.

I'll play around with that this evening.

Maybe something booting before the week-end.
[Moto G Android Development] sub77:
try to make a adb remount for accessing /system/bin
[Moto G Android Development] h2o64:
adb isn't accessible ^^

This is an updater script issue.

Edit : boot image changes made.
[Moto G Android Development] Black_Eyes:
Still on Updater-Script :confused:

it will be good if you ask some of your dev to help you

Since you are new to dev stuff :)
[Moto G Android Development] h2o64:
I can fix that ^^

I'm just at school right now :P
[Moto G Android Development] Black_Eyes:
i am just saying :)

Get some help from Devs

There is always something new ;)
[Moto G Android Development] h2o64:
iBootPeaches stuff is very interesting... But I don't know how that works. If a dev could explain me.

From what I understand : it does what I doing, but with a liter way. It also modify the apk.
[Moto G Android Development] ghost9685:
Lets hope the ROM will boot shortly.. :).this is been a hot topic in the Moto G android development :)
[Moto G Android Development] h2o64:
If anyone could find a dev to help me. That's would me nice indeed.
[Moto G Android Development] Notorious:
Are you using cm11 as a base?
[Moto G Android Development] roxkiller:
% in which progress for this rom up and running?
[Moto G Android Development] h2o64:
Don't know. More than 50%

Yes. M5 (without Theme Manager)
[Moto G Android Development] GæxD:
You can send pm to [MENTION=3531145]fedevd[/MENTION]
[Moto G Android Development] RuKiO:
You want to keep the rom for a while always releasing fixes ?
[Moto G Android Development] Notorious:
You should rebase to omni if its available for this device if you want less rejects. 4.4.2 is even better less rejects. When I used cm 4.4.4 I had to patch 43 rejects. And with 4.4.4 omni I had 21 rejects
[Moto G Android Development] h2o64:
I'll do it this weekend
[Moto G Android Development] Notorious:
That is the same error I cannot get past !!!!
[Moto G Android Development] h2o64:
Ahah !

My idea : try to do the framework2.jar manually :

use baksmali-2.0.3.jar & smali-2.0.3.jar with -a 19 (or other for 4.4.4) to recompile them.
[Moto G Android Development] Notorious:
Let me know if you fix the error
[Moto G Android Development] imanesaurus:
Hi my friends [MENTION=4616169]dams161[/MENTION] just asked me to help on this thread.

I allways have this problem if using patchrom for porting miui.

by the way are you using patchrom for port?

are you already merge all the rejects folder?

if yes.

just see your glowpadview.smali on framework2.jar, there is somethinf wrong with it.

or maybe you can update your patchrom source on github so i can take a look.

regards

imanesaurus
[Moto G Android Development] dams161:
Thank you for help

Envoyé de mon XT1032
[Moto G Android Development] h2o64:
Not a prob!

Yes I'm using patchrom (which is up to date) for the port.

I patch every (33) reject files. glowpadview was one of them.

I'll check it out.

Thanks for your participation! :D
[Moto G Android Development] Notorious:
Yea I patched mine already just look for the duplicate virtual method definition that it is referring to and remove it
[Moto G Android Development] Black_Eyes:
Oh mate

This is dexoat and dex2oat error from bin files

Are you using these files from CM or from MIUI?
[Moto G Android Development] h2o64:
Nice. I'll try.

Do you think that's will fix the error?
[Moto G Android Development] Black_Eyes:
i had the same log when i have tried to Port MIUI

i have used CM's dexoat and dex2oat but then i replaced them with Port files
[Moto G Android Development] h2o64:
Hasn't fix anything. Exact same error.

Patchrom is (sadly) a completly different logic.