yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[T-Mobile Samsung Galaxy S 5] dynospectrum:
That doesn't sound kernel related. What ROM & Baseband are you on? Remember to always wipe cache & dalvik before flashing kernel.

First off disable/uinstall any kernel related apps you previously had installed (they may conflict with KTweaker). Try reflashing a different kernel, then see if you still have the problem. If that fixes your problem, try re-flashing KT-SGS5-KK4.4-TW-G900-06.09.2014.zip again.
[T-Mobile Samsung Galaxy S 5] xda23:
I have been running this kernel since last night so far nice and smooth.great battery life.:)
[T-Mobile Samsung Galaxy S 5] cwburns32:
I second the great battery life, good lord the phone hardly drains when idle.
[T-Mobile Samsung Galaxy S 5] ktoonsez:
Ya, Im seeing the same thing, 2 nights and 3 nights ago I had 3% drain in 9 hours of sleep. Last night, I only got 6 hours of sleep and it drained only 1% in that 6 hours.
[T-Mobile Samsung Galaxy S 5] cwburns32:
Yeah last night my phone drained 1% in 7 1/2 hours. Pretty impressive to say the least. Been off charger for 12 hours now with 3 1/2 screen on, 20 minutes of Maps usage and a few phone calls.... Still have 55% remaining, looking good so far KT keep it up brother!
[T-Mobile Samsung Galaxy S 5] mike28:
Thanks for your work ktoon any settings that you can recommend I'm a heavy user always on the phone mainly web browsing text and music I get about 8 hours with this use with about 4 hours of screen time I guess I'm asking for too much lol
[T-Mobile Samsung Galaxy S 5] Skyrocket2:
Do I need to do any tweaking or just flash and that's it?
[T-Mobile Samsung Galaxy S 5] mike28:
I flash without any tweaks not sure if we need to this kernel is perfect as is
[T-Mobile Samsung Galaxy S 5] gdmlaz:
Any recommended settings for this ?
[T-Mobile Samsung Galaxy S 5] LuigiBull23:
Try Ktoonsified v1 available in the Profile Shop in Ktweaker.
[T-Mobile Samsung Galaxy S 5] Skyrocket2:
:good: Thanks for replying. can't wait to flash this tonight when I get home. Thanks KToonez.

---------- Post added at 04:41 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:20 PM ----------

you mean the link in your sig?
[T-Mobile Samsung Galaxy S 5] stoehner:
What's the best method to load profiles from the shop?
[T-Mobile Samsung Galaxy S 5] LuigiBull23:
No. The link in my sig is for the GS4. So I highly advise against downloading any profiles from there. However, I'm currently working on a new Shop/discussion thread with newly revamped profiles specifically for our device. It will be up soon.

Open up Ktweaker and navigate to Profiles & Scripts > Ktweaker Shop (Profiles) > All

Click on Ktoonsified v1 and select to "download profile". Once downloaded, go back to the main Profiles & Scripts menu, select "Restore profile from sdcard" and select the profile you just downloaded then confirm to apply the profile.
[T-Mobile Samsung Galaxy S 5] gdmlaz:
Just load it up seems to be running smooth for now let me play a couple of games and put the phone on standby see how it reacts on my phone thank you sir :D

I know benchmarks don't matter but this is getting really low benchmarks in 20s i get about 37 with other kernels ? any reason for this
[T-Mobile Samsung Galaxy S 5] cwburns32:
You just said you know benchmarks don't matter then asked why they are lower when you are getting higher on the other kernels... the reason is they don't matter, it's a crap shoot with them. Just a number really.

I have used many kernels before and none have been better than KT's. A low benchmark score does not mean anything... I feel like performance and battery life wise this is the best kernel out there and it's only on its initial release!!!
[T-Mobile Samsung Galaxy S 5] ktoonsez:
Just depends on the phone I guess. And yes those apps are crap. Also my profile is not really made for gaming. I will make a gaming peofule when i get a chance just like i did for S4. Check out my score using ktoonsified v1.
[T-Mobile Samsung Galaxy S 5] ktoonsez:
Anyone that uses Craptutu will have issues. They dont know how to read the kernel version string as usual. I will shrink it so it will stop being a moron :good: :highfive:
[T-Mobile Samsung Galaxy S 5] ktoonsez:
Change Log 08.22.2014

1. Shrink version description so people can run Antutu all day long

2. net/l2tp: don't fall back on UDP [get|set]sockopt

3. ASoC: qcom: qdsp6v2: fix crash due to asynchronous read/write
[T-Mobile Samsung Galaxy S 5] culson_35:
Awesome
[T-Mobile Samsung Galaxy S 5] ahrion:
I love the aosp version of this kernel but I noticed it doesn't have any init.d support. Is that intentional??
[T-Mobile Samsung Galaxy S 5] ktoonsez:
Whatever the current CM ROMs are supporting is whats going to work.
[T-Mobile Samsung Galaxy S 5] ktoonsez:
Redownload the kernel and give it a try. I made a change but cant promise the ROM is setup properly to let it work :good:
[T-Mobile Samsung Galaxy S 5] gavilan2010:
Great kernel master loving it.
[T-Mobile Samsung Galaxy S 5] Tunasty:
[MENTION=4325945]ktoonsez[/MENTION], what's going on Bro! When did you get s5, I thought you weren't gonna get s5 since you used to say it's the same as s4.

Miss your awesome sauce man lol

-Tunasty
[T-Mobile Samsung Galaxy S 5] ktoonsez:
Got it a couple months ago. It turned out to be an awesome upgrade due to the chipset change, I/O is waaaaaaaaaay faster and even the CPU surprised me but of course Im OC'd to 2.8 Ghz :good: :p
[T-Mobile Samsung Galaxy S 5] ktoonsez:
I merged in all the stuff from elelinux release for the AOSP kernel from 10 minutes ago so everybody redownload!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[T-Mobile Samsung Galaxy S 5] ktoonsez:
Do you guys have all the bugs on TWRP that I have, where screen wont shutoff and or keeps coming back on? Just wierdness in general?

Well I am building a TWRP just like I did for S4, should be uploading it real soon. Wont have F2FS stuff yet but at least it will work good. You guys interested?
[T-Mobile Samsung Galaxy S 5] em0ney14:
Never tried the s4 version because i went from s3 -> s5 but am willing to give it a go
[T-Mobile Samsung Galaxy S 5] LuigiBull23:
Definitely. That screen on issue is so annoying.
[T-Mobile Samsung Galaxy S 5] ktoonsez:
I think your hangouts is broke, hit you up the other day and your not seeing me or something?
[T-Mobile Samsung Galaxy S 5] elesbb:
I have the random screen on issue but that's it. Never really cared since i'm hardly in recovery lol. But remember when i asked you if you were gonna build one because the stock one always gave me troubles? See what i'm talking about? :P Thanks for the build though!

Agreed.

You can always ask me too ya know lol. Then again i'm not nearly as good as [MENTION=5082757]LuigiBull23[/MENTION] xD
[T-Mobile Samsung Galaxy S 5] LuigiBull23:
Not sure where the heck you heard this but that's definitely NOT TRUE lol.
[T-Mobile Samsung Galaxy S 5] elesbb:
Just a general observation my friend :)
[T-Mobile Samsung Galaxy S 5] ktoonsez:
Since this is the first release, you might want to backup your TWRP folder before installing. Your old existing TWRP "Preferences/Settings" more than likely be deleted and started over, so dont get nervous.

Change Log 08.23.2014

1. Initial release

2. Merged in all the latest from Team Win

3. Using my kernel as the back-bone

4. New cool percentages screen area when doing a backup and restore that is more informative as to the progress.

5. On official TWRP, backups for CM took 128 seconds, mine took 76 seconds. Restore was about same gain.

6. Fixed the random screen waking up issue

7. Screen no longer wakes when u hit the screen or capacitive buttons.

8. Once time zone is set, the time issue does not exist for me that some people have mentioned.

9. Kernel is based on NG2 so hopefully it will help out people that have been having issues with bad backups and ones that just dont work at all

ENJOY THE AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[T-Mobile Samsung Galaxy S 5] ktoonsez:
Yep, your Hangouts is definetely broke, sent you 6 more messages after you did send that one a few minutes ago.
[T-Mobile Samsung Galaxy S 5] layzer253:
Tried reformatting to F2FS via ktoonze twrp and it says unable to mount partition afterwards. Anyone else have this issue?
[T-Mobile Samsung Galaxy S 5] LuigiBull23:
It doesn't have the F2FS stuff included yet so not sure what you were trying to do.
[T-Mobile Samsung Galaxy S 5] GuyInDogSuit:
What is F2FS?
[T-Mobile Samsung Galaxy S 5] layzer253:
F2FS is a flash memory optimized filesystem. I figured since the S5 all in one recovery by ktoonze has it as an option it, should work.
[T-Mobile Samsung Galaxy S 5] LuigiBull23:
Not yet man. He's still working on it.
[T-Mobile Samsung Galaxy S 5] GuyInDogSuit:
Hmmm... from what I read of it, there's mixed reviews on it. Seems to help old devices, but there's the risk of data loss. Not sure how I feel about that.

Just wish there was a way to get back UMS on this phone. I'd like to be able to play my music through my car stereo.
[T-Mobile Samsung Galaxy S 5] ktoonsez:
There are no ROMs or kernel that support F2FS yet. To clear up answers from next page, looks like TWRP now supports switching to F2FS so I wount have to do anything for my TWRP, but as I said dont format to F2FS since no ROMS or kernels support it. As far as data loss, I have never seen that before and I ran it for at least 8 months.
[T-Mobile Samsung Galaxy S 5] layzer253:
Sorry to be a bother, but on page one of the this thread it says "•F2FS compatible with AOSP 4.4". I am using the unified KLTE C11 in conjunction with this kernal which is 4.4.
[T-Mobile Samsung Galaxy S 5] ktoonsez:
Change Log 08.25.2014

1. Added in kernel commits from elelinux

2. Sync ramdisk

3. Tweaked deconfigs
[T-Mobile Samsung Galaxy S 5] GuyInDogSuit:
I'm surprised that not even the stock ROM does.
[T-Mobile Samsung Galaxy S 5] ktoonsez:
Change Log 08.25.2014

1. Tweaked ramdisk to stop red warning about EFS size calculation

2. Some other ramdisk tweaks for speed

3. Built with my latest kernel

ENJOY THE AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[T-Mobile Samsung Galaxy S 5] ktoonsez:
Touch wiz will never work
[T-Mobile Samsung Galaxy S 5] GuyInDogSuit:
Just goes to show how bad TouchWiz sucks, lmao

How would you rate your experience with F2FS on your other devices so far?

And do you have any plans to build for Philz Touch recoveries?
[T-Mobile Samsung Galaxy S 5] ktoonsez:
I liked having f2fs due to no journal corruption that always happens causing you to format and re-install your ROM and or clear cache and dalvik.

No I dont know anything about Philz, Im a TWRP kinda guy :D :good:
[T-Mobile Samsung Galaxy S 5] culson_35:
Why happen this...the CPU stay high all time...my phone turn hot...
[T-Mobile Samsung Galaxy S 5] ktoonsez:
Because u flashed a AOSP kernel on a Touchwiz ROM.
[T-Mobile Samsung Galaxy S 5] ahrion:
Fauxsound did an update a couple days ago and ever since then the sound control for Fauxsound is all derped. Idk if it had to do with the added benefits (IE you can now control inbound/outbound call/speaker/microphone volumes).
[T-Mobile Samsung Galaxy S 5] culson_35:
What....
[T-Mobile Samsung Galaxy S 5] culson_35:
I wipe cache /dalvik ,fix permission and by now the CPU work normal
[T-Mobile Samsung Galaxy S 5] ktoonsez:
There is no kernel update on faux's github, so nothing I can do :eek:
[T-Mobile Samsung Galaxy S 5] ktoonsez:
Glad u got it.
[T-Mobile Samsung Galaxy S 5] beachbum40:
How can I get the persistent Google search bar off my home screen. Thanks
[T-Mobile Samsung Galaxy S 5] ahrion:
I'll try again. It could be problems with the permissions from last CM build?
[T-Mobile Samsung Galaxy S 5] GuyInDogSuit:
Use a different launcher or Xposed Framework.
[T-Mobile Samsung Galaxy S 5] beachbum40:
Is gps working on the cm ROM?
[T-Mobile Samsung Galaxy S 5] GuyInDogSuit:
I'd say a tentative yes. It's working for me, and I occasionally get apps telling me that location services is not turned on, but it does lock on. It seems to be a little slower indoors for some people. A few have reported that it doesn't work for them indoors at all, but it seems to vary from person to person. Recent builds have had better luck.
[T-Mobile Samsung Galaxy S 5] ktoonsez:
Calling all people interested in testing AOSP kernel, albinoman and I got a test for the people that cant touch the screen in Emulators!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Anybody around
[T-Mobile Samsung Galaxy S 5] culson_35:
Bring it
[T-Mobile Samsung Galaxy S 5] ktoonsez:
Already confirmed not working for the people that dont know how to use there touchscreen, so no testing needed.
[T-Mobile Samsung Galaxy S 5] em0ney14:
Lol kt and albino. It's never 'that' easy.
[T-Mobile Samsung Galaxy S 5] GuyInDogSuit:
wut
[T-Mobile Samsung Galaxy S 5] ahrion:
It's probably the simplest thing. It almost always is an overlook.
[T-Mobile Samsung Galaxy S 5] jscroppo:
I installed your recovery and everything worked fine at first but after about a day it stopped flashing anything. Wouldn't load my backup, all it does is say complete but nothing is actually flashed. Any idea how to fix this?
[T-Mobile Samsung Galaxy S 5] ktoonsez:
Here is my latest AOSP kernel guys from 10 minute ago:

http://goo.gl/yNrYzh

Change Log 08.29.2014

1. Some NG3 stuff (wifi, camera, dts.....)

2. Sync CM ramdisk

3. Tweaked defconfigs again

4. Sync with CM official kernel
[T-Mobile Samsung Galaxy S 5] spirodave:
Check the size of your backup. I have had it where I backup my rom and some of the options were not checked and it only backed up cache and dalvik not data. If not that them maybe re-download the recovery you are using and install again
[T-Mobile Samsung Galaxy S 5] rpolito73:
Will this work with the new NG4 with no issues?
[T-Mobile Samsung Galaxy S 5] GuyInDogSuit:
Yeah, I'm using it on NG4 on Team UB's CM11 with no issues.
[T-Mobile Samsung Galaxy S 5] HDR:
I see a file KT-SGS5-KK4.4-TW-G900-08.14.2014.zip avaliable, are there any changes from the 8.10.2014 version still showing as latest?
[T-Mobile Samsung Galaxy S 5] ktoonsez:
Change Log 09.03.2014

1. Sync with ALL the latest stuff for CM

2. Added F2FS support

3. Added vibration strength control.
[T-Mobile Samsung Galaxy S 5] ktoonsez:
Change Log 09.03.2014

1. Has my latest kernel as the backbone of the recovery

2. Added F2FS support

ENJOY THE AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[T-Mobile Samsung Galaxy S 5] GuyInDogSuit:
OK, I'll bite. I wanna try the F2FS out. This will wipe my system partition, though, won't it?
[T-Mobile Samsung Galaxy S 5] ktoonsez:
I would just do cache and see how it goes to see if there are any speed changes and see if stability last longer on your ROM if you are not a flash-aholic :good:
[T-Mobile Samsung Galaxy S 5] GuyInDogSuit:
Problem is.... I AM a flashaholic. lol
[T-Mobile Samsung Galaxy S 5] culson_35:
This setting is correct... When every update of CM11 is not flash the current kernel, is necessary to re-dowload the kernel to work
[T-Mobile Samsung Galaxy S 5] ktoonsez:
Update changelog and the kernel, use previous link to take advantage on vibration control

http://xdaforums.com/showpost.php?p=55224304&postcount=638
[T-Mobile Samsung Galaxy S 5] culson_35:
You're kernel is compatible using ART
[T-Mobile Samsung Galaxy S 5] ktoonsez:
Kernel has nothing to do with FART.
[T-Mobile Samsung Galaxy S 5] GuyInDogSuit:
Nice to know, but like KT said, FART has nothing to do with kernels. You're better off sticking with dalvik runtime anyway. There's hardly any benefit to using ART. ART is more of an inconvenience than anything else since many apps are incompatible with it anyway.
[T-Mobile Samsung Galaxy S 5] culson_35:
Thanks all
[T-Mobile Samsung Galaxy S 5] lunerceli:
[MENTION=4325945]ktoonsez[/MENTION] .... have you tried compiling anything other than CM11? The reason I ask is because I tried to used your kernel source to compile SlimKat and it kept giving me errors about fixdep and the bash script not being able ot use the currently configured deconfig file. I am just being curious is all.
[T-Mobile Samsung Galaxy S 5] francisco.sismeiro:
Sorry to bother you but I am not being able to install this kernel... probably I am doing something wrong.

In TWRP I wipe cache and dalvik then install and receive the message "failed"

My data is:

G900F

CM11 UNOFFICIAL - 0906 build

baseband XXU1ANG8

bootloader XXU1ANG9

Am I doing something wrong?

Thanks for your help.
[T-Mobile Samsung Galaxy S 5] ktoonsez:
I have only tried CM and its not a good idea to include my kernel source into a ROM build since I have a custom Ramdisk and things wont turn out too good. :good: Kernel should be built separate with my ramdisk.
[T-Mobile Samsung Galaxy S 5] lunerceli:
I was just being curious with it. But thanks for the info bro.
[T-Mobile Samsung Galaxy S 5] AidanSonoda:
Frequency Range

[MENTION=4325945]ktoonsez[/MENTION] … don't want to waste your time, but since you've been so responsive on this thread - perhaps you could answer a curiosity of mine. Default settings with your ktoonservative governor (reset to kernel defaults via the option in ktweaker) has the lowest frequency at 1190MHz. I was thinking that the MSM8974AC scaled down to 300MHz out of the box (might be mis-remembering that though). Was there a particular reason for eschewing those lower clocks? Are they less efficient or is a trick to improve responsiveness with a conservative-based governor? Just curious what your thoughts were … it is hard to find good information on this sort of thing.
[T-Mobile Samsung Galaxy S 5] ktoonsez:
I don't set it to that. That is mpdecision doing that and locking it in to that. Reboot after u do a reset of settings to stop that.
[T-Mobile Samsung Galaxy S 5] ktoonsez:
Change Log 09.11.2014 AOSP Kernel

1. Sync with latest stuff for CM

2. Add in my NFC selective code from my TW version

3. Ramdisk sync

Change Log 09.11.2014 TWRP

1. Sync with TWRP upstream

2. Upgraded to version 2.8

3. MTP support is now active so you can easily copy files in and out of the phone while its in recovery
[T-Mobile Samsung Galaxy S 5] thatsupnow:
Just flashed your recovery and it shows up as 2.7.1.0. Just thought I'd their that out there. DL'd it twice just to make sure
[T-Mobile Samsung Galaxy S 5] ktoonsez:
I forgot to upload it, download again and you will get the newest. :good:
[T-Mobile Samsung Galaxy S 5] ktoonsez:
So has anybody tried my new recovery? Are you guys getting MTP working inside recovery?
[T-Mobile Samsung Galaxy S 5] thatsupnow:
Yep I used it a few minutes ago and I confirm MTP is working for me. I'm using SM-G900W8. Thanks again
[T-Mobile Samsung Galaxy S 5] 808phoneaddict:
I was trying to understand how to flash this, do I Odin it? Or do I use existing twrp to flash your version? And should original twrp backups still be compatible with your twrp?
[T-Mobile Samsung Galaxy S 5] mocsab:
Been having probllems with the Recovery - I flashed this a few days ago and it seemed to be working well - but yesterday and today, after making a nandroid back up - when I went back to restore the backup later it was gone.

Not sure what happened - Everything looked good when I did the backup - nothing indicated that there was a problem. I did not go and check to see if the back up was there but I never do - and I have flashed and backed up roms using twrp and every other recovery for years - never had this problem before.

any idea of what might be happening?
[T-Mobile Samsung Galaxy S 5] Gandolff:
+1 All my recovery backups where wiped, even those that I had previously used.
[T-Mobile Samsung Galaxy S 5] ktoonsez:
No idea, been working for me for months now, never had 1 issue
[T-Mobile Samsung Galaxy S 5] mocsab:
How odd. Never happened to me before.. Ever.. Back on twrp.. Normal version. Will try to this one again soon to see if I can see what happens and why.. Or if it even happens to me anymore . Thanks anyway.. And thanks for your amazing kernels.....
[T-Mobile Samsung Galaxy S 5] ktoonsez:
Make sure u kill the twrp settings when going back and forth and then reset up your setting and storage location to make sure that is not the issue.
[T-Mobile Samsung Galaxy S 5] mocsab:
Sorry, but I am a little confused - what do you meane "kill the twrp settings" - just how do I do that? I always do reset the storarge location a - thanks in advance for your help

---------- Post added at 07:37 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:28 PM ----------

Sorry, but I am a little confused - what do you mean "kill the twrp settings" - just how do I do that? I always do reset the storarge location a - thanks in advance for your help
[T-Mobile Samsung Galaxy S 5] carlos_polanco:
Hello everybody!

I flashed this Kernel on my TMO S5 to try double tap to wake [I'm coming from a G2] and... IT WORKS NICE!!! THanks to the developer for this kernel!

I'm on Stock Samsung ROM and used TWRP 2.8.0.1
[T-Mobile Samsung Galaxy S 5] bigtom624:
Same thing happened to me on the latest TWRP 2.8.0.1. I flashed Philz recovery and it is working fine. I am gonna go back to 2.7.0 1 because I know that one worked correctly.

Edit: It happened on Philz also. I'm not sure why it is happening.
[T-Mobile Samsung Galaxy S 5] ktoonsez:
You guys must have a ROM in common or something that is deleting your files/folders, but obviously it is not the recovery doing it sense 2 seperate recoveries are doing it
[T-Mobile Samsung Galaxy S 5] tech128:
[MENTION=4325945]ktoonsez[/MENTION]

I mentioned before, but you probably overlooked it, I'm having problems with the KtweakerWPC widget.

When the phone first boots, it will work correctly for a long time (many hours) but then it will stop working correctly.

When I click on the widget, it stays stuck on the current profile and does not change.

I'm using xtrestolite 1.2.1c and the latest apex launcher.

I've tried to research on how to debug a widget, but so far have come up empty.

If there is a way to switch profiles via command line, I would be open to using that as well.

Easy enough to create a term here shortcut.

Here is a link to the logcat:

http://ge.tt/19xJFow1/v/0
[T-Mobile Samsung Galaxy S 5] ktoonsez:
Didnt overlook, answered it many times. Widgets stop working over time with any OS greater than 4.1, I can not make it stop since the OS keeps killing the widget. There is no command line way to set profile.
[T-Mobile Samsung Galaxy S 5] tech128:
Sorry,

I didn't see where you had answered it previously. I did search, maybe with the wrong terms possibly.

Could the widget be reloaded manually somehow? I'd only need it to work for a minute, before it probably kills it again.

The only way I've found to make it work is to remove the widget and re-add it.

But I don't know enough about how a widget works to see if there's an alternative somehow.

Thank you for responding, I appreciate it.
[T-Mobile Samsung Galaxy S 5] ktoonsez:
Resizing the widget and or moving it usually works too. Resize works for me 100% of the time.
[T-Mobile Samsung Galaxy S 5] tech128:
Ahh ok cool, just tried it. Moving it didn't seem to have an effect, but resizing does, just like you said.

That makes it a little easier.

I'll play with different methods of locking apps in memory and see if that fixes it.

The process for the widget is com.ktoonsez.KTweaker right?
[T-Mobile Samsung Galaxy S 5] ktoonsez:
Yes com.ktoonsez.KTweaker
[T-Mobile Samsung Galaxy S 5] elesbb:
Why is it killing the widget? I've made many Widgets and they never "stop" working.

You should have a pending intent set up for your button clicks, then either handle the clicks in your widget receiver or start a service to handle the clicks. What's this widget do? Simply change profiles? If that's all it does I can make a widget. It shouldn't be "stopping" like that. :P
[T-Mobile Samsung Galaxy S 5] ktoonsez:
The OS kills it, been doing the same thing for 3 years
[T-Mobile Samsung Galaxy S 5] elesbb:
I'll make you one. :) I have never heard of that happening, nor does it happen on my own widgets.
[T-Mobile Samsung Galaxy S 5] ktoonsez:
Happens to me on every widget for last 3 years no matter who makes it