yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Verizon Galaxy S 5 General] tech_head:
I don't have issues with the modem being locked.

The modem is essential to network compatibility.

The FCC has various standards for radio emissions, etc. Those things can be changed when you start mucking with the radio.

So let's be clear, some things need to be locked down just for compatibility and basic function.

Now let's move up a layer.

Why does Verizon care if I want to run an "ad blocker"? Because they want to sell ads.

They don't want me to gut the bloat because some of the bloatware they stick on the phone is payware.

VZ Nav? Who in their right mind would use that when you can use Google (data consumption) or you could use CoPilot which stores all maps locally.

They have their diagnostic software now installed on phones. More accurately called spyware.

They can remotely look into your phone. They ask for permission, now. What happens when they no longer ask?

Without root, you can't stop them from doing anything to "your" phone they want.

Why does "My Verizon" now check for root?

I've been designing computer hardware (chips for networking, video, and a host of other technologies) for 20+ years.

I have managed IT departments.

I will not buy a phone that I cannot truly control.

I would not buy a computer that I can't control.

A mobile phone is just a small mobile computer with a modem.

I'll stick to my S4 for now and maybe buy a device where the manufacturer is more friendly, i.e. not Samsung.

Maybe when Verizon kicks me off unlimited I'll move to a carrier that doesn't care.

But any device I buy, there must be a way for me to control it.

That's just me. Other people have different requirements.

The S5 is going to be one tough nut to crack.

They use SHA256 to sign the bootloader and everything upto and including the kernel.

There are no knows exploits for SHA256.

The NSA and DoD have certified Samsung devices for non-Top Secret communications.

The person that breaks the Samsung bootloader will be an instant celebrity.

Unless someone leaks the signing keys, I don't see the bootloader being unlocked or exploited.

Look at how long people have been at it for the S4. Ever since MDK got replaced and the LOKI exploit was closed.

So a year and nothing.
[Verizon Galaxy S 5 General] spinwizard:
Too bad they don't just lock out the things, like the modem, that are FCC standards issues, and let us control the rest. They sell a developers version, that you're fully able root and the bootloader is writeable. So that doesn't make sense, either. I'm confused. I just want root. :confused:
[Verizon Galaxy S 5 General] Nsane457:
The first link is interesting if it can get implemented. I've looked at the second link. From msm8974_sec_defconfig in Samsung source :

...

CONFIG_NF_CT_PROTO_DCCP=y

...

From git.kernel.org/cgit/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git/commit/?id=b22f5126a24b3b2f15448c3f2a254fc10cbc2b92 (patch) :

...

-	dh = skb_header_pointer(skb, dataoff, sizeof(_dh), &dh);

+	dh = skb_header_pointer(skb, dataoff, sizeof(_dh), &_dh);

...

which appears several times. The patchable lines do indeed appear in the ./net/netfilter/nf_conntrack_proto_dccp.c file in the Samsung kernel source. It should be a valid exploit but not sure if it can be translated to a root exploit. I'm not a kernel or Android programmer.
[Verizon Galaxy S 5 General] corona63976:
It's not samsung that does it it's Verizon and they have no business messing with a device they don't own nor did they manufacture. Some might say it's a security issue I say they want control and that's all its about I'll give you one better the reason there isn't root is I think the top Devs have been told not too and I don't know why they would listen since the supreme court said that the owner of the device is administrator.
[Verizon Galaxy S 5 General] Dennisg34:
They own the network we use the phones on so they have some rights limiting us especially with some ROMs that enable hotspot which is a paid service.

Some Devs might be working the other side too getting paid more to find vulnerabilities so they can be patched, but regardless I wish someone would stop thinking about only the money and think about the pride and bragging rights they can have.
[Verizon Galaxy S 5 General] kuronosan:
Which is funny, because they technically have no right to tell us what we can or can't do with our bandwidth.

Tethering plans have always been retarded and, like tiered data, are just a gimmick to wring money out of the dummies.
[Verizon Galaxy S 5 General] vermy:
So what is the actual mechanism that locks the bootloader? A password, key, encrypted files? I have wondered what programmers must be experiencing very often. Whatever it is, it must be frustrating.
[Verizon Galaxy S 5 General] kuronosan:
It's an encrypted lock which requires an encrypted key to unlock. Exploits are essentially lockpicks.
[Verizon Galaxy S 5 General] Russ77:
did you buy your phone from Verizon or Samsung? did you pay full retail, 2 year subsidized, or 2 year free financing?

unless you paid full retail to Samsung, then Verizon can do whatever they want to your phone as you agreed to the terms of service.

sorry but that's contract basics. they support it, service it, and warrant it.
[Verizon Galaxy S 5 General] Dennisg34:
Oh yes, I totally agree, but when people hack a paid service that is stealing and is illegal. Which might be one of many reasons Verizon doesn't want to give us root freedom
[Verizon Galaxy S 5 General] kuronosan:
I'm absolutely certain of it.
[Verizon Galaxy S 5 General] kprice8:
Except, they put up the option of a Dev Ed device... Easily rooted, and can do anything with it you want. Yes, the fallbacks of ruining the Dev device are great. Like dropping it, breaking it.. etc.. But let's be honest. I know if they had released the Dev Ed device at the same time as the regular one, I would have gone Dev instead of Regular... But they didn't, because they knew that eager people who had to have the latest and greatest tech would simply go buy it, and try and root it. Then release the Dev Device a little while later, after the initial shipment of Regular devices have hit stores, and sold out... Then the Devs and the Patient people got the better end of the deal. Believe the Dev device was $150 cheaper than the standard VZW S5... So yeah.. Message here.. Patient pays......
[Verizon Galaxy S 5 General] jakeneal22:
How about everyone stop complaining. If you don't know how to get root then read up. Learn what the developers look for to get root and get it yourself. All the complaining is coming from people who expect things to be handed to them.
[Verizon Galaxy S 5 General] kuronosan:
First of all it's "patience"; second of all, no.
[Verizon Galaxy S 5 General] Dennisg34:
Not necessarily, I don't expect anything to be handed to me since myself and others have put up money for their time. Trust me, if I knew what to do I would but those guys have degrees in this field or have just learned through years of experience. I'm not needy, if root comes, FANTASTIC! If not, welp that stinks. I'm as respectful as possible to them and really hope someone comes up with this, but I don't whine or complain about it.
[Verizon Galaxy S 5 General] robbyoconnor:
FYI if I were the developer doing the rooting...this would turn me off. Calm your tits and relax. You are not entitled to anything except death...the other certainty in life is taxes...as said above...get your hands dirty and help...or be patient and wait.
[Verizon Galaxy S 5 General] tech_head:
Yep.

I pay for access, leave me alone.

So for you that disagree, if in the TOS, they said I could only call from the north or west side of the street, otherwise it would cost twice as much?

That would be stupid, so is charging me for tethering, when all the data must come through my device.

Mind you, this only applies to unlimited people. People with tiered plans tether for free.
[Verizon Galaxy S 5 General] vermy:
Sorry for asking. I own a sawmill and retail lumber business. Doubtful I will be unlocking any bootloaders any time soon. This kind of thing is intriguing to me and I was just curious.
[Verizon Galaxy S 5 General] ks3rv3rg:
How do they have no right to tell you what to do with the bandwidth? Because, technically, it isn't yours, or mine. It belongs to them. They rent us access. That's like saying it would be ok to completely trash a house you rent because you pay money for it. What you're expressing here is a ridiculous sense of entitlment. You are paying them for a service, technically they can do with and change it in whatever way they want.

What most people don't understand, especially with regard to bandwidth, is that your device that's constantly pulling 10ish mbs a second and multiple gigs a month, affects the network for everyone else. Some seem to think they deserve to have as much data as these please without thinking of the greater network that affects us all. Although money is obviously a huge motivating factor for many decisions, the greater good for the network is also kept in mind.

---------- Post added at 11:33 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:28 AM ----------

Someone downloading torrents, for example, tethered to their phone, can cause serious issues for users in their area and users as a whole. Why wouldn't you just pay for unlimited home Internet access which in many cases is faster and more stable anyway? Probably because you feel like you deserve or are owed something from Verizon. Once again, they are allowing you access to THEIR service. If in the TOS they expressed that you can only call here or there and it would cost more if you called somewhere else, then people would still do it. Wait, actually, they already do it. Nationwide free calling is a very new concept. There was a thing called long distance that people paid for for a long time.

---------- Post added at 11:36 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:33 AM ----------

Exactly. There aren't that many people complaining for one and two, how arrogant to just say that everyone should shut up and learned a very specialized skill that takes many years to develop despite what our individual lives may entail.
[Verizon Galaxy S 5 General] corona63976:
FYI I paid full price for my device and it wouldn`t matter anyway they would still lock the boot loader because it goes through verizon befor it goes to the consumers. we just will have to be patient and wait for root.
[Verizon Galaxy S 5 General] robbyoconnor:
FYI you could have used the upgrade of another phone on your plan that isn't unlimited to keep it. That is how I came to own the S5. Just put your old sim card In the new one.
[Verizon Galaxy S 5 General] tech_head:
The torrents and trashing a house are good analogies for abuse.

They are not a good analogy for use.

A typical renter will cause wear and tear on the house, that is to be expected.

I can tell them "no pets" or charge them extra for it.

I can't tell them what time of the day they can use the bathroom or how often they can use the kitchen.

They are entitled to what would be considered "quiet enjoyment".

So to take that and apply it to a phone.

If it is okay for me to have unlimited data and I routinely am not in the top 5% of bandwidth users.

As long as my bandwidth is in what would be considered "normal" for unlimited, why does it matter if I tether?

it only matters if you want to charge me extra for something that a charge should not exist for.

The FCC gave them a pass for unlimited, but they cannot charge for tethering on tiered plans at all.

Your argument falls flat in that scenario.
[Verizon Galaxy S 5 General] ks3rv3rg:
What you just said supports my argument. If you aren't abusing the network then that's good on your part. BUT, most people aren't so honest and given and inch they'll take a mile. Hence the need for restrictions that apply to all. Of course you should be able to tether but there's no way they could allow or not on a case by case basis over their whole user base. The FCC gave them a pass for unlimited but that doesn't mean the network can handle such a scenerio. That's why the need exists for restrictions. the house analogy still applies. They aren't charging you more to send individual texts or to calling specific numbers at this or that time of day. (Like charging you to use the bathroom in your home) they are charging you for your use of the network (like renting a house) and to prevent abuse everyone has to sign the same contract. (like a rental agreement) that states they'll take care of things but will be charged if you disrespecfully take advantage of the situation. On an unlimited plan, like I still have, I can understand their justification for tethering costs. Not so on a tiered plan since they have control of data use.
[Verizon Galaxy S 5 General] thewebsiteisdown:
Ignore post sorry.
[Verizon Galaxy S 5 General] spuniun:
Most of this argument is moot for the simple reason that a device as secure as the VZW/ATT SGS5 is a

good

thing for the user; the motives behind why is largely irrelevant as the net benefit remains the same.

If that quality level of security is not a feature you wish to take advantage of, you have numerous other options in this open market place - probably on the order of 2 dozen realistic, perfectly viable options plus another hundred options of lesser quality.

To continue with the housing analogy, if you rent an apartment with a set of features including 2 bathrooms, you cannot go back to the landlord and tell them you really don't want the second bathroom as you need space for your shady friend to keep his dangerous chemicals so can you please remove it?
[Verizon Galaxy S 5 General] dejahboi:
I tend to lurk around the threads and this is seriously getting off-topic. I believe there is an "off-topic"/rant thread.

Anyways, I'm setting up my build environment on my main machine. Hopefully I can contribute my spare time to help out with the community. In the meantime, I have to cool off because I'm really tired of the negative vibes given off by a few in this community and it's really really not getting anywhere when we do.

Just my 2 cents..
[Verizon Galaxy S 5 General] thewebsiteisdown:
Ignore sorry..
[Verizon Galaxy S 5 General] ks3rv3rg:
Fair enough. Moving on...

Here's a couple of interesting places to read up on/search for new and old vulnerabilities.

http://cve.mitre.org

http://nvd.nist.gov

Less relevant but still cool - http://www.exploit-db.com
[Verizon Galaxy S 5 General] Dennisg34:
Strange, I never said i was entitled to anything at all. I think you missed the whole point of my comment dude, I meant the complete opposite.
[Verizon Galaxy S 5 General] robstunner:
Soooo. About that there root.
[Verizon Galaxy S 5 General] robbyoconnor:
This is beyond off topic...go rant on your blog.
[Verizon Galaxy S 5 General] davidstre:
They can't, their blogs got shut down for off topic posting.
[Verizon Galaxy S 5 General] tech_head:
To take it full circle. Unless someone leaks the keys, you will not brute force your way through SHA256 encryption in the bootloader.

Sent from my SCH-I545, KNOX Crippled Version.
[Verizon Galaxy S 5 General] elliwigy:
loool.. crazy how ppl still think its possible! Were better off waiting for the keys to be given to us without a fight.. tech head speaks the truth
[Verizon Galaxy S 5 General] SirWise23:
Man... I wish there was some thing like 'Folding@Home' for this. By the time Brute force worked, this phone would be something our grandchildren used as toys. To bad there isn't a program that would let a brute force attempt be split between thousands of people.
[Verizon Galaxy S 5 General] mike163:
It's because of all the stupid movies and TV shows where the "hacker" gains access and decrypts any system in seconds.

Only idiots think this is like real life.
[Verizon Galaxy S 5 General] xRogerxC:
I'm not getting my hopes it. If it happens, great.
[Verizon Galaxy S 5 General] RedBullet:
Disappointing.

I wonder if one can turn the retail version into the developer version (unlocked bootload, etc) so that you can just run custom roms and such and not care about warranty.
[Verizon Galaxy S 5 General] mexiken:
I assume Safe Strap is used AFTER we have established some kind of exploit???? From what I remember (on the Note 3 anyway), Safe Strap merely interrupts and catches the boot process before it checks for stuff, and then redirects to the Safe Strap recovery. Can any of that apply here????
[Verizon Galaxy S 5 General] open1your1eyes0:
That's exactly correct.

Safestrap is our most realistic and best luck regarding any form of recovery on this device (due to nature of the bootloader checks in Verizon and AT&T Samsung devices now). But of course root is necessary to get it in the first place.
[Verizon Galaxy S 5 General] tehgyb:
I'm wondering if there's a way to actually ditch Knox... I understand its contained in the boot loader, or at least parts of it... Is that included in a stock image(ODIN tar) like the one posted in the Dev section? If so maybe it would be possible to write it out. Sure, warranty is boned at that point but some of us just don't care lol

Its been way too long since my Galaxy s4g days when I helped to actually work on Dev stuff lol
[Verizon Galaxy S 5 General] Syn Ack:
Agreed. I never even bothered to S-Off my HTC One even though it was available. I'd wind up breaking a piece of hardware (usually radio/modem) or trading in for a new phone before the warranty even mattered.
[Verizon Galaxy S 5 General] theresin:
Take some advice from someone who was smart enough to stick with the MDK bootloader on his Galaxy S4 ....

1) Be patient.

2) Don't get your hopes up.

3) Don't count on bounties (just look at the S4)

4) IF exploits are ever found, don't ever upgrade your bootloader/software unless you're willing to risk losing everything.
[Verizon Galaxy S 5 General] chaplngrillsgt:
What exactly are the disadvantages of tripping Knox?
[Verizon Galaxy S 5 General] Exleh:
If you send the phone back with a Knox flag tripped, the warranty is void and you cannot get a replacement if it breaks, etc.
[Verizon Galaxy S 5 General] Syn Ack:
Can't send it back for software related warranty work. I've sent plenty of phones back with tampered/unlocked/tripped bootloaders.
[Verizon Galaxy S 5 General] krazy_smokezalot:
Hey so what kind of recovery is in the works or as you state seems close or something in that line. do you know if it will be safe strap or an actual recovery that will allow us to flash asop. Or will have the bootloader locked still prevent use from flashing asop or a different kernel because we don't have an unlocked bootloader? I'm asking because I want the s5 if all we get further than the note3 it's pretty quite but I know devs are being the scene working on things

---------- Post added at 09:53 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:51 PM ----------

You void warranty. If you phone has a software malfunction they won't cover it like if the screen all of a sudden blacks out and there is no physical damage than you would get a warranty replacement but if knox is tripped than forget about warranty
[Verizon Galaxy S 5 General] chumboy:
I've about had it with big red.

Only reason I stay with them is their coverage can't be beat.

I rushed into the S5 (from the Note 2) without even reading if root was possible. I assumed it was.

And after 4 hours of researching, I seriously doubt root will be achieved.

Probably going to return it tomorrow and go with sprint or t-mo.
[Verizon Galaxy S 5 General] chaplngrillsgt:
So if I don't care about the warranty (I get the Geek Squad warranty anyways, and they don't know how to check that stuff) then I can root with nothing else breaking?
[Verizon Galaxy S 5 General] Syn Ack:
There's a ton of development in the regular Galaxy S5 subforum of XDA. There has been a ton of work done in the past 3 days and it seems like we're getting close to a Verizon recovery. It doesnt matter which comes first, if we get root first then people can start doing their usual modding and tweaking, and if we get a custom recovery soon then that will allow us to flash a root zip file and automatically get root. At this point it seems that we are quite far away from an unlocked bootloader so I wouldn't make any purchases if that's what you're holding out for.
[Verizon Galaxy S 5 General] Syn Ack:
Don't take my word for it or quote me any shape or fashion but theoretically yes. I've seen a friend of mine root and unlock his phone and run it over with a car and they replaced it for free under the black tie warranty at geek squad.
[Verizon Galaxy S 5 General] krazy_smokezalot:
Oh ok I'll take a look. But I was actually wondering if you knew if the recovery will be safestrap or will it be cwm or twrp?

If it's cwm or etc and it let's if flash asop and different kernel I'm jumping ship lol?
[Verizon Galaxy S 5 General] chumboy:
I've got 15 days to hope for root....then it goes back to it's maker.
[Verizon Galaxy S 5 General] chaplngrillsgt:
Does the universal root method from Ricky not work yet?
[Verizon Galaxy S 5 General] Exleh:
Not yet. We need a working recovery which is beginning to frustrate me.
[Verizon Galaxy S 5 General] detr0yt:
You guys will probably be very disappointed with Sammy... Although I love there phones and loved my note 3... There was absolutely nothing going on in that thread.. Verizon in Samsung I like peanut butter and jelly they stick together no matter what and cannot be broken apart. A custom recovery wiIll highly unlikely ever be achieved. I'm not trolling I'm just being realistic person. I sold my note 3 and took a 350 dollar loss and bought the HTC M8.A unlocked boot loader.. is 99.9% unlikely... No matter how high the bounty may get...even the developer edition threads are weak... If your willing to stick it out with Verizon... ( like I am ) this HTC phone is amazing.. the look, the feel, the quality, S off, root,SENSE 6 vs. Laggy TOUCH Jiz, UNLOCKED BOOT LOADER!.... it's all here already... No restrictions.. I couldn't be happier and I

think for those who haven't tried HTC should give them a try.. don't get me wrong I love Sammys quality.. just hate there locked down Knox security bull crap. And all there bloat ware.. like I said before.. I came from the S3 to note 3 not trolling.. just don't want people having a $600 locked down phone that there going to hate and want too sell and take a huge loss like I did on my Note 3.. This HTC M8 has ZERO Lag. Smooth and buttery..
[Verizon Galaxy S 5 General] SirWise23:
Stupid movies... They also say that all the world uses MACS, everyone has fonts and pop ups that are font size 100, virus's always have a flashing skull and crossbone symbol when they install, and during alien invasions, alien technology always seems to interface OK with USB and Ethernet.
[Verizon Galaxy S 5 General] tech_head:
You should line up 99% of the population and shoot them for being idiots.

you do realize that makes us the 1%.......... :D

Anyway Samsung started using SHA256 on the MDK boot loader and although the LKOI exploit allows custom recovery, the bootloader is still locked.

It's significant that the GS4 has remain locked for a year and multiple bootloader revisions.

I'm not trying to piss on anybodies parade, I'm a realist that understands computer hardware and software.

I've been in the computer industry for more than two decades and have designed chips that go in GSM cell phones, satellite receivers, video encode and decode boxes, digital audio chips, ethernet chips, etc. I have also managed IT departments.

Currently there are no known exploits for SHA256.

SHA256 and SHA512 are resistant to both preimage attacks and there is not a single known collision vulnerability.

The SHA2 crypto-cipher was deigned by the NSA.

I say, stick a fork in it because we are done.

The NSA accepts this as secure and as such both the NSA and DoD allow Samsung devices with encrypted bootloader and device encryption tunred on for all non Top Secret communications.

If they are accepting the devices for all but "Top Secret" communications, do you really think we are the only ones trying to break the code?

I suspect there are governments with many more resources trying to do the same.

Once again, I'm not a nay-sayer, just a realist.

If anyone finds and exploit, they will be a hero and will be set when it comes to employment.