yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Verizon Galaxy S 5 General] jpmcnown:
"Soon, expect to buy a new computer and not have options to configure it, reload it, or even remove preloaded software from it that only serves to record your every action and report it to the highest bidder. Ridiculous idea, but what's even more ridiculous, is that idiots will vehemently defend this move as a very natural, expected and acceptable action to maintain the uniformity/stability of the "experience".

-Steve Jobs (might have actually been Abraham Lincoln too)
[Verizon Galaxy S 5 General] jcase:
"I must have root but I'm going to buy a device known to be locked down, and to be one of the more secure Androids, instead of an unlocked developer device." - Abraham Lincoln April 1st 1843
[Verizon Galaxy S 5 General] jpmcnown:
Abram Lincoln clearly wasn't a true supporter for the abolition of slavery.
[Verizon Galaxy S 5 General] kuronosan:
I must buy a device that is the same as the one I want but has the word developer in it so that I can do what I want with a phone I paid for with my money.

Yes, sounds like ignorance to me.
[Verizon Galaxy S 5 General] open1your1eyes0:
Normally I would agree here but the developer edition device is by no means identically treated as the retail.

The developer edition only comes with a 90-day warranty (which gets voided when you flash recovery anyhow); along with that the device does not get a single update for its entire support cycle (details noted here earlier).

Any non-developer choosing a developer device JUST for the reason of being able to root out of box will surely regret their decision later.

TLDR: Developer editions are a poor excuse of an "unlocked" device (at least from Samsung) and really should not be available for the general public.
[Verizon Galaxy S 5 General] jcase:
Definition of ignorance

I doubt few people could honestly say that I lack knowledge in this area without looking pretty ignorant themselves.

Ignorance would not realizing or understanding the reasons behind having a developer edition, and a consumer edition.
[Verizon Galaxy S 5 General] mlcollins30:
SM-G900V Rooting

Forgive my potential blindness on this, but isn't a major part of rooting getting the firmware to modify? And if that's the case have I then misread the posts on this subject? Point of my questions is that if unlocking bootloaders and adding in the exploit is simply stopped because no one can crack into Big Red's version to be able to do a dump, then that problem's solved - firmware found?!...I am realizing though as I'm typing this, that the problem of unlocking the bootloader and applying the exploit may still remain with or without the firmware separated from the phone.
[Verizon Galaxy S 5 General] jcase:
They are not marketed for the general public, they are labeled and marketed for the developer. If I buy a new car, and rip the engine and wiring out, screw something up when trying to "enhance it", should my warranty still fully apply? (would it? honest question here, if it would I would love to go hacking on my wife's new car)?

Soldering irons can burn the CRUD out of people (ie me last week), maybe they shouldn't be available to the general public (please dont ban them, I do enjoy my new iron). Guns can kill people (ok very poor comparison), maybe they shouldn't be available to the general public.

The point here is, know what you are buying. buy what you want. If it isn't what you want, wait for what you want. Companies market what sells. You want to see the developer device program improve? Buy developer devices, and voice your opinions on it in a constructive way when you do.

On the flip side, if you don't want to wait and want to hack it out, put work towards it instead of complaining (not pointed to you open1your1eyes0, I know you better).
[Verizon Galaxy S 5 General] jcase:
Rooting is the process of getting code execution as the root (admin) user. It has nothing to do with getting a dump, or finding firmware. I can dump almost any device (fully) without getting root.
[Verizon Galaxy S 5 General] mlcollins30:
Obtaining code execution then, is something done only on the device versus(or rather than) manipulating the firmware without direct access to the device?
[Verizon Galaxy S 5 General] jcase:
Yes, happens on the device.

However attacks can be physical (via hardware) or through software. Manipulating firmware to gain root? Yeah very possible, LG, Pantech, and (older) Samsungs didn't fully verify firmware being flashed to them when in a locked state.

Newer Samsung devices verify the integrety of files flashed to them. This is a good thing, malicious or forensic devices (like the Cellebrite UFED) can't be used by malicious people (or legitmate law enforce ment) to attack the device through these well known attack vectors (other vectors may be/are still possible
[Verizon Galaxy S 5 General] open1your1eyes0:
All very valid points jcase. :)

I guess the warranty support isn't honestly surprising but as far as updates are concerned they really shouldn't have any excuse for this lackluster support. I think the main issue here is they supposedly get a completely different build version (while still having all the normal OS lockdowns of the retail build?). As a result, Samsung and Verizon don't really put too much interest or focusing on keeping it up to date seperatly from the rest. The whole developer program for Samsung is really just bizarre. I don't understand why they don't just take a retail version and blow some efuse to make the bootloader allow flashing on all partitions. Or just do it the HTC way, take any device and allow to unlock it but inform the user that they will officially void the warranty on unlocking because they record that serial number in their "voided" database.

The reason Verizon says they don't want unlocked devices is for the sake of "compromising security in their network" but at the same time they actually go out of their way with Samsung to make a developer edition and allow to be used on their network as well? Not to mention having the Galaxy Nexus at one point (although my guess is never again). The whole thing is just full of contradictions and mysteries (and also a bit doing things just for the sake of doing them and not having proof of what they claim is bad in the first place).

At the end of the day, as jcase mentions, we should go complain about it if we really do care that much, but the problem here has always been that it's not worth because there are too few of us to make a difference for them to actually care about appeasing us. Sadly, it's a battle that will never be won without effort that is beyond what the reward is worth.
[Verizon Galaxy S 5 General] Demiurge7:
Attacking hardware; I remember having to use an insulated paperclip to unlock the HTC Rezound a while back - tapping a connector while the utility ran at a perfect 1.4 second interval...

In this vein (and because I lack sufficient knowledge in linux/java), I decided to open up my s5 today and begin to wildly stab at it with a paperclip to achieve root.

I can confirm this method was not successful.
[Verizon Galaxy S 5 General] s'pht:
Mind: Blown. =)
[Verizon Galaxy S 5 General] Firemedic:
I would have to disagree. I bought a GS4 Dev edition and I have never looked back. Sure, it doesn't get updates but that has not stopped me from rooting it, Installing custom 4.4.2 roms and updating the radios. I don't even notice it hasn't gotten updated. It is the best phone I have ever used and I don't regret it at all. I am going to skip the S5 I think and wait for the next big thing. I am not quite ready to give up my GS4 dev yet. It has been awesome!
[Verizon Galaxy S 5 General] kuronosan:
I'm not saying you're ignorant, I'm saying that it is ignorant to tell people they're better off buying a certain phone just for the purpose of rooting it.
[Verizon Galaxy S 5 General] Exleh:
Why does this thread keep turning into a debate? And I while I appreciate ALL of the developers' hard work, I feel like some of you are being smartasses and talking to us non-developer "peasants" like we are stupid. I don't like that and that is the opposite of what I've come to expect from XDA in my 3 years here.

Also, some of us don't have the $650 to buy the developer edition outright. We either started a new contract, had an upgrade, or used the Edge program. I got this phone for a few reasons: 1). I have always liked Samsung phones. Having owned both Motorola and HTC devices in the past, I feel like Samsungs have been the easiest to work with. 2). The camera. 3). I really want a removable battery/SDCard. And many more that I can't think of. The only thing I know I did that was stupid, was trade in my completely unlocked and rooted MDK S4 to get this damn phone.

But like I said this is a flagship phone and I still have faith.

/endrant
[Verizon Galaxy S 5 General] turbosrrgood:
I definitely understand the point you are trying to make, but I think you are off in your understanding of "ignorance". Heck, he posted the definition. It doesn't seem to apply here. I think you just disagree with him.

---------- Post added at 04:23 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:16 PM ----------

It seems like a lot of people bought the phone "expecting" it to be rooted. That was a poor assumption to make, considering how progressively better Samsung has become at security. A quick search before the phone was available would have shown this. I thought about it carefully before purchasing, knowing root might not be achieved. I think that's what the devs are pointing at. Incorrect assumptions and expectations.

I understand the frustration, but this was no secret.

Also, it's barely been a week since the phone was available. It may still happen.
[Verizon Galaxy S 5 General] jcase:
Positive feed back for what you like, constructive criticism for the aspects you want changed. Other developer programs changed greatly with support and direction of the community (Motorola). These developer program came into existence through the same process.

Awesome, this is what I'm talking about. Anyone can do this stuff if they put their mind to it! When can we expect full details?

Why? It worked in shaping other development device programs. Look what happens to Motorola's program when people complained about the warranty aspects of their developer phones? Buying and supporting the product. Logic says, buy and support the types of products you want.

You realize I was replying to a funny/smart*** mocking quote with another one right while making a counter point to it? Notice who and when I attributed it too?

bingo. Ignorant isn't the proper word here, hence the confusion.
[Verizon Galaxy S 5 General] kuronosan:
Perhaps I am. My apologies. It seemed as though the encouragement is towards paying more for the right to do whatever you want with your phone, which is already your right.

I don't agree with the idea that it should be necessary to give these companies more money for less, either.
[Verizon Galaxy S 5 General] Maphack:
The only thing I wish I had was auto hibernate from greenify :(.

Aside from that... Overclocking my bionic and s3 was fun and all but not so necessary with this...

Sent from my SM-G900V using Xparent Skyblue Tapatalk 2
[Verizon Galaxy S 5 General] KaM1KaZ3:
Samsung the new Apple?

Galaxy S5
[Verizon Galaxy S 5 General] didureboot:
We're already getting there. With new Windows 8 machines the bios is set hard coded with the os serial and other information. Some are also set to not be able to have a new clean operating system not be able to be installed with disk or flash drive. You have to be a bit more savvy than the typical user and dig into the bios to remove secure boot and enable legacy boot in order to accomplish a clean install. I'm sure it will only get harder.
[Verizon Galaxy S 5 General] KaM1KaZ3:
Every time I reboot my device I get a message "enable Verizon security" anybody know what that is about?

Galaxy S5
[Verizon Galaxy S 5 General] Maphack:
What's that make apple?

Sent from my SM-G900V using Xparent Skyblue Tapatalk 2
[Verizon Galaxy S 5 General] das7982:
You obviously have no clue who Jcase is..... arguing android development with Jcase is like screwing for virginity. ... its silly.

Follow Me [MENTION=260686]Bash[/MENTION]_array
[Verizon Galaxy S 5 General] Smokncars:
I'm waiting for root...I miss it tried using foxfi to tether came up with vzw message saying I need to call them as I don't have feature. Can't use xposed =(
[Verizon Galaxy S 5 General] KaM1KaZ3:
Be patient its in the works lets sit back grab a beer pull out some chairs an wait lol

Galaxy S5
[Verizon Galaxy S 5 General] joshw0000:
Verizon sucks. I may jump ship to the M8 or back to my N3. No root is killing me.
[Verizon Galaxy S 5 General] mkitchin:
You know something, or are you just speculating?
[Verizon Galaxy S 5 General] mlcollins30:
Is that what you think? - That I'm questioning the abilities and knowledge of jcase or arguing android development? Guess again. If anything, it was am attempt to try to understand what many do not.
[Verizon Galaxy S 5 General] SirWise23:
Out of curiosity, has there ever been a mainstream popular Android phone on Verizon that WASN'T eventually rooted?

The issue is never "Can it be done?" The issue is usually never that it CAN'T be done, it's just that the people that can do it aren't on Verizon so they don't care to try.
[Verizon Galaxy S 5 General] Smokncars:
Wooooosssssssaaaaaa

I'm going to need more then a beer but less then tequila because that's how I broke my s3 and got into the s5 no root mess. Lol Verizon reps hassled me to get a s5 case but not offer the phone insurance after paying for phone outright. Smh.....
[Verizon Galaxy S 5 General] KaM1KaZ3:
I was on sprint contract was up wanted the s5 they tryed to double dip the phone left there service jumped in no root band wagon lol but I can say Verizon services is better I miss root alot of bloat on here little more than sprint has.. this device is locked down tight its gonna take awhile to get root if the right dev get together it can be done

Galaxy S5
[Verizon Galaxy S 5 General] ravenofdoom:
I'm not sure I fully agree with this - there's a difference between the devices one uses as a developer and one to be used as a daily driver. The Nexus 4/5 is what most folks likely use for development now, which is generally separate from the sole phone to depend on for essential communication (since if developing/ROM-building, it would likely be in a less than optimal state for dependability). This isn't to say the daily driver would necessarily Verizon device, but just that those are two different functions/purposes.
[Verizon Galaxy S 5 General] kuronosan:
They didn't offer me that either.
[Verizon Galaxy S 5 General] jpmcnown:
Wooooosssssssaaaaaa, please take a moment to update your signature. lol
[Verizon Galaxy S 5 General] evilbeef54:
same here, been with sprint 13 year, rooted/jailbroken/hacked/tweaked every flagship device they had, they had great customer service, but they data/cell blows goats for quarters.

what is it about the VZW version that makes it hard to root, i honestly dont know, we had root acess in 4 hours with sprint on the GS5. I'm not trying to be an A.H. just curious

It WILL happen in time... where there is a will there is a way, i literally stripped wires and sat there shorting out the board with wires and paperclips to get root on the evo 3d, so i KNOW some of the brillant minds here can make it happen, i hate waiting but it is worth it.... after having a rooted GS5 for a week i cant wait to be able to root this one... but until then i am enjoying the awesome cell/data coverage
[Verizon Galaxy S 5 General] Maphack:
I'm no dev so this is only speculation but I'd assume that the resources Verizon has would allow them to develop their own security measures that are superior to that of sprint.

Also, as you mentioned, customers will go/stay on Verizon w/o root because they are just a better carrier and as a result don't need to scrape for customers by turning a blind eye to rooting.

?

Then again, the percentage of users that root is probably insignificant to both carriers...but each customer is probably more valuable to sprint than Verizon..

My economics degree is probably not paying off.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Xparent Skyblue Tapatalk 2
[Verizon Galaxy S 5 General] tsachi:
Verizon adds their own security on top of Samsung. Just look at the 4.3 update for the s3. They took a few extra weeks to roll it out after the other carriers. They used the time to "test the update extensively for better user experience". They also used it to put in a feature that would brick your phone if you tried to root it. No other s3 had it. It took quite a while to find a work around, but eventually it was solved.
[Verizon Galaxy S 5 General] mkitchin:
Is the protection/security the VZW S5 has in place significantly different than what other devices have had?

I understand what it it would take to get root on the device, and what the chances are of that happening.

I'm still unclear on what would take to be able to load a 3rd party ROM. Would it be root and safestrap?

I'm trying to decide if I should keep this device. I would really want to load a 3rd party ROM, but I can't live without root.

Thanks to all that are smarter than me and do the work on these things.
[Verizon Galaxy S 5 General] detr0yt:
You won't regret it... The M8 is wide open... Roit...Unlocked boot loader... Great phone... Excellent battery life... Higher density screen... Best front camera available with 5mp.... And I'm still on Verizon... Same great coverage and and speed... I'm done with Sammy
[Verizon Galaxy S 5 General] bluremi:
I haven't been able to google an answer to this question so maybe people here can helP:

SD Card Lockdown in Kitkat

What are the implications of deleting an app's private folder on the external SD Card when it's uninstalled? Does this mean updating the app causes you to lose data? Is the app allowed to create multiple private folders and subfolders?
[Verizon Galaxy S 5 General] Syn Ack:
Dude give it a rest.
[Verizon Galaxy S 5 General] KaM1KaZ3:
Its really not the end of the world without root... give it a bit longer this device is lock down tight but it can be cracked

Galaxy S5
[Verizon Galaxy S 5 General] Franzie3:
Based on your comments it seems as if you know something we don't. Am I right (hoping so)?
[Verizon Galaxy S 5 General] KaM1KaZ3:
I been tinkering with it not much luck

Galaxy S5
[Verizon Galaxy S 5 General] Syn Ack:
I just think he's being extremely positive.
[Verizon Galaxy S 5 General] Franzie3:
Either way I like the optimistic approach. I think im deciding to keep mine and just deal with it. I'll be hopeful and positive.
[Verizon Galaxy S 5 General] Syn Ack:
It seems like everyone that's still left here has decided not to trade it back in.
[Verizon Galaxy S 5 General] mkitchin:
I certainly want to keep it. The phone is awesome. I will probably keep it, but I'm not sure. I got rid of most of the packing materials and inserts. Not sure if that matters.
[Verizon Galaxy S 5 General] chaplngrillsgt:
I haven't even bought one yet and I've been following this since day 1. Haha. If we get root on the S5 I will go and buy one immediately, Otherwise, I may wait to see what LG and Motorola put out in the fall. I was not a fan of the M8.
[Verizon Galaxy S 5 General] sureshot007:
I was going to return it (still have until Friday), but I also picked up a Gear 2 Neo, and I love the watch, so I might just deal with it for now.
[Verizon Galaxy S 5 General] clint3131:
I have until friday as well. I've been rooted since the very first android phone that was released. I have an S3 that is rooted, i may just go back to it until the S5 Dev edition comes out. I can always download and flash new radios or Roms as I see fit.

I just wonder WHEN the S5 dev edition is coming.
[Verizon Galaxy S 5 General] theneedhamwrath:
I don't understand why people just can't enjoy the device as is until root is found...impatient much?
[Verizon Galaxy S 5 General] Chucky5150:
I like the phone (not so much what verizon has done to it). I would just hope that in 6+ months down the road that I would be able to change up my phone and give it a new look / feel.
[Verizon Galaxy S 5 General] kuronosan:
I'm being patient. I have too much going on for me to sweat something like this. Until then I'm just not using fingerprint ID, tethering, or TiBu.
[Verizon Galaxy S 5 General] mkitchin:
It is a matter of deciding to return it to exchange form something else or to wait and see what happens. The window to return it is short.
[Verizon Galaxy S 5 General] dustinb17:
For those who are close to their return date I can give you my view on the M8. I've had it for a week now in short, the moment the S5 is even just rooted with Safestrap I'll sell the M8 and buy the S5. It is a great phone just as everyone says it is but I'm just not in love. The speakers are nice but it is tall, not uncomfortably tall just unproportionately tall. Build quality it great and it definitely seems slim because of the shape. I came from the S4 and even though the screen is the same size, it's noticeably smaller with the on screen Nav Keys. It's a great phone and if the S5 never gets root I'll hope for the G3 but I feel I'd be happier with a rooted S5. Like everyone else I imagine it's only a matter of time and I just wanted to give the alternative view on the M8 as a S5 replacement.

The speakers and build quality mean very little me in all honesty so your opinion may differ from mine. I rarely listen to music without a headset and I'm a case guy so neither matter to me really.
[Verizon Galaxy S 5 General] blacknet101:
Same here lol I was going back to Verizon and switch to the M8 but since getting the Neo, I actually love the watch so that is whats gonna keep me from switching, I just hope at some point we get root, don't care much of ROM's. A lot can be done with just having root!
[Verizon Galaxy S 5 General] SirWise23:
AMEN to that. I love My Gear. I am staying just for that. Really the only reason I wanted root was to restore games and apps. (I had a saved game of Final Fantasy that was like 35 hours in... GRRRRRR. LOL)

In the meantime I restored my Titanium back up of some of these to my ASUS Tablet and have they have worked fine.
[Verizon Galaxy S 5 General] nathan951:
Root would be nice for:

TiBu

Airplay (airstream)

Screen off, volume key track control

Disable volume warning

Use multi window, on any app

And a bunch of other small mods.

Anything I can do to help let me know
[Verizon Galaxy S 5 General] cdmcmillon:
I just want wifi tether back! :(

I have Verizon unlimited Data, I could do without the unlocked bootloader or a custom rom, but need by wife Tether!
[Verizon Galaxy S 5 General] chumboy:
I could have lived without root if kitkat didn't prevent me from moving files around on my external sd card.

THAT was the dealbreaker for me.

The extSDcard read/write restrictions prevent us from basically doing anything practical with it.

I don't think many people realize this restriction.
[Verizon Galaxy S 5 General] sureshot007:
I definitely realize it. It's a sticking point with me too.
[Verizon Galaxy S 5 General] spotmark:
Don't we all. ;)
[Verizon Galaxy S 5 General] jcase:
I recently cut my wife tethering down a lot, she is now substitute teaching and isn't in my office all day. It is both good and bad, no one to bring me coffee, but more peacefulness.
[Verizon Galaxy S 5 General] BlueHarford:
this could be a complete noob moment.. but when the dev edition comes out, if its the SAME hardware... cant we just flash that bootloader with odin and essentially turn our SM-G900V into the developer edition with a unlocked bootloader? would of course seriously void warrenty.
[Verizon Galaxy S 5 General] briantacker:
If only it were that easy. I'm not knowledgeable enough for details on why but I do know it's not that easy.