yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Sailfish General] ILA:
Too bad. I really liked the OS before I read this thread... :(

Oh well, staying on android untill someone figures out how to build an OS that is written in some kind of C for performance and has a VM to emulate existing apps untill they are developed for the OS natively...
[Sailfish General] carepack:
buy a jolla phone?!

only the ports on android phones missing alien dalvik. The jolla phone is able to do that. Also it's a linux based mobile os. Many parts, like in android, are written in c. With QT5 they use a technology like kde desktop.
[Sailfish General] ILA:
I know, and that's exactly what I like about it.

As for the android phones, I really don't feel the need to upgrade from my galaxy nexus.

I just don't want to see SailfishOS end up like maemo and meego. They were great, but only among us geeks so they didn't become mainstream enough and development stopped (in a way).

If Alien Dalvik could be exported to android hardware then the OS would have a sure future, this way it is uncertain...
[Sailfish General] RumoredNow:
If there are enough adopters of Sailfish on Nexus 4 and Galaxy S3, Myriad may offer a license of their Alien Dalvik to those users... For a few dollars you might be able to "have it all."
[Sailfish General] flotron:
What if you can capture the Dalvik RPM from a Jolla phone when downloading from store?

n9 can capture deb from Nokia Store
[Sailfish General] ILA:
That would be a dream come true! :D

You could, but that's not exactly legal... :(
[Sailfish General] aironeous:
I think the answer may be more simple than you all have considered so far. The phone does not come with the Alien Dalvik included it has to be downloaded, no? Maybe Jolla pays based on downloads of the Alien Dalvik from the store and that's why (or one of the reasons why) the store is not enabled yet on this early Alpha release.

edit: OK I just asked if there will be a way for us to purchase a license in the future on IRC and stskeeps said they are not leaving it out as a possibility but basics are first.

So there is hope. I guess they will decide after they see how everything goes. I guess it's one of those company strategy things. Will letting us have Alien Dalvik lead to less apps being developed for Sailfish or more? I think more simply because it will excite developers to get in on the cover actions.
[Sailfish General] MGREX:
Just to clarify, the android compatibility feature is NOT available to Nexus/non-jolla users?
[Sailfish General] Consistant:
That's correct. Jolla aren't allowed to distribute the Alien Dalvik due to it being a licensed product by the Myriad Group. Jolla are basically paying Myriad per Jolla phone sold and it would be impossible to do it for "every port installed".

Stskeeps (Carsten Munk of the Sailfish team) has apparently said on the Sailfish OS IRC that buying a license to use the Android compatibility layer on ports might be something they could possibly be doing later on, but the ports needs to have the basics first before they'll think about doing so.
[Sailfish General] Nuu~:
We will most likely see some slightly less legal ports that simply rip Alien Dalvik from existing Jolla phones.
[Sailfish General] MGREX:
Wow, thats a total deal-breaker there, cant sailfish reverseengineer that feature and add it? maybe they could crowdfund that if they need the money.

All I'm saying is that I would be more than willing to ditch android if it weren't for the lack of compatibility
[Sailfish General] Consistant:
As Nuu~ mentioned, it isn't any crucial hardware or anything that's missing. So it'll probably get ported to non-Jolla phones in a illegal way after a while. However if such a illegal method was to exist later when the ports are more polished, it wouldn't be supported by Jolla and it certainly won't be a topic about such things here.

We'll see how it turns out. At least Jolla and the Sailfish team has responded positively on the notion of adding a way to buy a license to use the AD. Maybe they'll go through with it or maybe Myriad will shoot down hope, who knows what'll happen.
[Sailfish General] RumoredNow:
I'll say it again... It is NOT a Jolla issue. They don't own Alien Dalvik, they lease the right to install it on their manufactured devices.

Myriad owns Alien Dalvik. They always have. Look at their site: http://www.myriadgroup.com/device-solutions/device-software/myriad alien dalvik.aspx They've been doing this for some time. Alien Dalvik for the Jolla phone would not be compatible for Nexus 4 running Sailfish. Same OS,

different hardware

. Different chipset, different screen rez, different WiFi and cellular antennas, lots of different bits AD would have to interact with in order to run Android Apps.

IF

Alien Dalvik ever comes to Sailfish on Nexus 4;

Myriad

will have to make it happen, they would have to tweak it for the hardware, they would have to write the installer, they would license it.

Asking for Jolla to make this happen is like asking me to give you one of my neighbor's cars. I don't have the keys and even if I hot-wire the thing for you it is not built to ride on your type of roads.

Anyone who doesn't get this may benefit from looking at the recent trials and tribulations of ACL for TouchPad.
[Sailfish General] LightingZ:
How do you know that? I am pretty sure someone will rip it out soon
[Sailfish General] Consistant:
Need some sources here. Couldn't find anything on Alien Dalvik being a hardware dependant piece of software.

Looks to me like they just haven't included it in the image yet as they clearly say it's not impossible. Otherwise Sts would probably mention that Myriad would be the party who would need to port it.
[Sailfish General] RumoredNow:
That may well be... But it isn't a satisfactory answer. Pirating may be to some people's tastes, but it would make Jolla look bad if N4 users all went pirate with Alien Dalvik and might possibly endanger the project if it creates bad blood between Jolla and Myriad Group. Besides... I'm pretty sure a straight rip of AD won't work on N4 or work well if it even launches - you then need someone to cook it. (see below)

Android Apps don't just interact with the OS. How would AD written for Jolla Phone interact with the different CPU and GPU on the N4? If there is no hardware optimization the UX would be terrible. Again - look over at the webOS community and read up on ACL (Android Compatibility Layer) for TouchPad. I can't put a link here to another board... Sorry.

Basically, the threads there go over in excruciating detail the problems with hardware optimization and document quite clearly how ACL is not "plug and play." Alien Dalvik is the same. It's got to be properly tuned to the hardware to function in a usable manner.

Looks to me like the Dev dodged the specific question about licensing. Of course it's possible to get Alien Dalvik included in the port of Sailfish to N4... He's just not laying out all the details. Doesn't mean those details don't exist.
[Sailfish General] :
Let me make sure I understand this: a Sailfish port will not let me run Android apps, even by side loading?

If that's true it's a bit of a bummer. Adoption rates would be huge if you can run them.
[Sailfish General] RumoredNow:
Not at this point. There is a lot of hope it will come about (legally) with Myriad Group bringing Alien Dalvik to the Sailfish for Nexus 4 project.

It's a chicken and egg sort of deal...

If enough people adopt Sailfish on the N4, then it becomes worthwhile for Myriad to participate.

If Myriad participates and Alien Dalvik is allowed into the Sailfish image for N4, then more people will adopt it.

Where's the tipping point? What numbers entice Myriad enough?

From my reading it seems Alien Dalvik may require inclusion in the Sailfish install image for best system integration/performance. If that's the case it will probably have a license and require payment to activate. Just my best guesswork as a highly interested observer. I have no inside knowledge.
[Sailfish General] MGREX:
This alien dalvik issue could make or break sailfish. I don't want to start a fight but being honest the Jolla phone has next to zero chances of success, even iOS is losing ground to Android now, but as software it could make it, but it needs a compatibility layer built in.

How about using ART? Is the code open or Google has it locked down?
[Sailfish General] :
It seems like we could use another runtime, but at that point using the Play Store wouldn't be legal.
[Sailfish General] MGREX:
Because of ART? Why?
[Sailfish General] :
Not because of ART, but because the Play Store is only allowed on Android Certified builds.
[Sailfish General] MGREX:
Isn't that the same problem we have right now?
[Sailfish General] :
Yeah, pretty much.

I just can't understand why Alien Dalvik gets to have the Play Store.
[Sailfish General] IceTe:
I didn't really get the ART part.

Is there ART emulation in Sailfish OS?

Via Tapatalk@Note2
[Sailfish General] Consistant:
It's called "Alien DALVIK" for a reason. It's basically a dalvik virtual machine. So no, it does not run ART.
[Sailfish General] :
Right.

It seems to me that it would be possible for Sailfish to have an implementation of plain old Dalvik, the same way that they could implement ART, but still, it would never be as good as Alien Dalvik.
[Sailfish General] MGREX:
Why not?
[Sailfish General] :
Well, I guess it could be just as good, its just that getting Google Play would be a license issue once again. Otherwise, I suppose that it would be fine. So if the Sailfish devs or a hacker adds Dalvik that would be cool with me :)
[Sailfish General] flotron:
I made this script for nexus initial installation.

This will enable predictive keyboard and Jolla store. Will enable store downloads too.

Just put the na.sh file in the root directory and execute it as root (sh na.sh).

You need wifi on. It could take up to 10 minutes.
[Sailfish General] Consistant:
Amazing, this actually works.

I couldn't get the sh file to properly work (it screwed up at "pkcon refresh"), but I ssh'ed into my Nexus 4 and used the commands from there and it does indeed take some time, but it works. Jolla Store seems to be working actually. I've downloaded several apps and they work flawlessly.

"Android™ Support" is one of the apps available, but you can't download it as it gives an error unfortunately. It'll be "Waiting" for a while and then give up and tell you a problem occurred. Not really surprising, but I guess you also have the same problem there?
[Sailfish General] w0land:
Eh. Doesn't work anymore, access is restricted for now (401 Authorization Required).

Major bummer at least xt9 would be great to have on n4.
[Sailfish General] Consistant:
The store works, I just reinstalled Sailfish to try. I got xt9 to work too, but I dunno how. I just added a few accounts and suddenly it worked in messages and inside the browser for both English and Norwegian. If you refresh the zypper repo it'll want an account username and password (by default your Jolla account), but inserting the correct credentials won't log you in. So the only way to get past it is enter a blank username twice which will in turn give it 401.

So I dunno. The Android Support app does download if you update the repo, but it fails once it tries to install it.
[Sailfish General] thejus11:
This gives a bunch of errors, like

' is nor supportedtion 'refresh

Command failed: This tool could not find any available package : could not find jolla-xt9

Command failed: This tool could not find any available package : could not find jolla-xt9-cp

Command failed: This tool could not find any available package : could not find store-client

Why the errors?
[Sailfish General] w0land:
Hmm.. Repos from na.sh can't be refreshed (at least that's what pkcon and zypper prints out), but both store-client and xt9 can be installed.

xt9 works (at least for english and polish) in messaging and mitakuuluu, but store-client cannot be launched (via ssh, there's no app to selected in lipstick) it just prints out some dumpStatistics and nothing happens

---------- Post added at 08:49 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:36 AM ----------

Had the same issue, dos2unix fixed it for me. You can also manually invoke commands from shell script.
[Sailfish General] flotron:
I'm having some problems with warehouse after enabling Jolla store, I can get ride of-it, disabling adaptation0 and 1.

About android i download it (pkcon download /root/ aliendalvik) but i get this error installing:

Fatal error: nothing provides kmod-mysatroker needed by aliendalvik-0.9.3-1.armv7hl
[Sailfish General] ggghai:
how to ssh into Nexus 4 with sailfish os? I always failure.please help for detail.
[Sailfish General] DeepPurple15X:
Its pretty simple,

Go on the phone > Settings > System > Activate 'Developer mode' >Activate 'Remote Connection' > Set a Password > and Save.

Make sure you Phone and the PC are connected to the same Wifi Network. Remember the IP address of the phone. Its there in the 'Developer Mode' section. Lets assume the IP is 192.168.0.100

Open Terminal on the PC and type

ssh nemo@192.168.0.100

*there will be a authorization process if this is the first time you are doing this. just choose yes.

Then type your password. And you have access to the device.

For Root type,

devel-su

Then type the same password.

Now you can use ssh for a whatever you need :)
[Sailfish General] carepack:
recommend to read:

http://xdaforums.com/jolla-sailfish/general/qa-sailfish-n4-thread-t2727330

or here:

http://xdaforums.com/jolla-sailfish/general/sailfish-android-devices-release-t2696409
[Sailfish General] alboe:
After a fresh flash of EA2, ssh-ing into the phone, one only needs to issue the commands below to get the jolla store.

devel-su
pkcon refresh
pkcon install zypper # not needed, but nice to have
pkcon install jolla-xt9
pkcon install jolla-xt9-cp
pkcon install store-client

From what I see the repos that are added by the script have no more added value, as most URLs lead to 401s (authorization required).

adaptation0: [|] Valid metadata not found at specified URL(s)
adaptation1: [|] Valid metadata not found at specified URL(s)
aliendalvik: [|] Valid metadata not found at specified URL(s)
eas: [|] Valid metadata not found at specified URL(s)
store: [|] Valid metadata not found at specified URL(s)
xt9: [|] Valid metadata not found at specified URL(s)

Others are redundant, as they point to "latest release", which is 1.0.5.16. Repos pointing to that excact version are pre-configured already.

ssu lr
Enabled repositories (global):
- apps ... https://releases.jolla.com/jolla-apps/1.0.5.16/armv7hl/
- hotfixes ... https://releases.jolla.com/releases/1.0.5.16/hotfixes/armv7hl/
- jolla ... https://releases.jolla.com/releases/1.0.5.16/jolla/armv7hl/

...
[Sailfish General] alboe:
Seems I was wrong. The store app gets installed and works itself, but installing apps from it, does not work. I still need to trace how to get it working again.

Starting the store did add the following repository.

store https://store-repository.jolla.com/UNKNOWN/armv7h1/

It seems to be auto-generated from the string reported by

$ ssu model
Device model is: UNKOWN

I replaced it with

store https://store-repository.jolla.com/nemo/armv7hl/

to no avail. It probably needs to be jolla instead of nemo. Still need to try.

---------- Post added at 04:43 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:27 PM ----------

My bad. The repository URL from the script was correct, so it had to be SbJ instead of nemo. To sum up:

devel-su
pkcon refresh
pkcon install zypper # not needed, but nice to have
pkcon install jolla-xt9
pkcon install jolla-xt9-cp
pkcon install store-client
ssu ar store https://store-repository.jolla.com/SbJ/armv7hl/
[Sailfish General] ponces:
Can you install Jolla Apps with Jolla Store with that procedure?

I tried a few days ago and could only install Warehouse and apps from openrepos. This script didn't work for me.
[Sailfish General] alboe:
Yes, those commands were enough (after a fresh install/flash of EarlyAdopters 2) to install Apps from within Jolla Store.

As I described above, the script you link to adds some reposotories that cannot be accessed (lead to 401s). This disturbs the process of installing apps/updating them. Make sure that ssu repos | grep -v openrepos, produces about the same output as below.

[nemo@Jolla ~]$ ssu repos | grep -v openrepos
Enabled repositories (global):
- apps ... https://releases.jolla.com/jolla-apps/1.0.5.16/armv7hl/
- hotfixes ... https://releases.jolla.com/releases/1.0.5.16/hotfixes/armv7hl/
- jolla ... https://releases.jolla.com/releases/1.0.5.16/jolla/armv7hl/

Enabled repositories (user):
- store ... https://store-repository.jolla.com/SbJ/armv7hl/

Disabled repositories (global, might be overridden by user config):

Disabled repositories (user):
- home ... https://download.jollamobile.com/home:/honeybadger/latest_armv7hl/

If you have more/different repositories, you can remove them with ssu removerepo REPONAME. So if you e.g. would want to remove the store repository, you would have to issue:

[nemo@Jolla ~]$ devel-su
[root@Jolla nemo]# ssu removerepo store
[Sailfish General] ponces:
I know that, but thank you for all of your help :highfive:
[Sailfish General] alboe:
Haha, sorry for overshooting. Might be helpfull for others...one never knows.
[Sailfish General] nisu4717:
They are releasing hardware adoption kit or nit
[Sailfish General] Lgrootnoob:
screw dalvik!

ART is the future.

this model should be in every mobile OS!
[Sailfish General] MooNWalker:
Then be my guest and gather team and port ART to Sailfish. I'll even give you money if you do a good job. Until then I kindly ask you to avoid posting useless slogans and let those who want so use Dalvik.
[Sailfish General] Lgrootnoob:
"uploads ART port"

ok ok, I get it.

just felt like taking a stroll through a random category on xda today.
[Sailfish General] T-uzun:
ART port

hey guys i am a late bloomer..... no kidding i wanted to start to port sailfish os to the oppo find 7 and found this forum thread so as long as somebody doesnt port ART for sailfish there is no android apps for a port??

i dont want to badmouth Jolla but over a year ago their goal was too come to as many devices as possible. but no information that a OEM adapts sailfish.. very sad..
[Sailfish General] RumoredNow:
Currently Sailfish is using Dalvik, not ART, for running Android Apps. Dalvik is perfectly serviceable for the near future. It isn't a case of needing to switch to ART "right now" or be cut off from running Android Apps. Heck, very few Android devices (overall) are using ART for that matter...

The Dalvik that Sailfish uses is a from a separate company called Myriad Group. They produce, and licence the use of, Alien Dalvik. Sailfish has to pay for inclusion of Alien Dalvik on every Jolla phone they manufacture. Due to Jolla not owning Alien Dalvik, it will not be in their images for non-Jolla phones. They do not have the right to redistribute Alien Dalvik. If Myriad Group wants to licence it out for purchase / install on non-Jolla phones running Sailfish - I would bet it would only be for official ports that have reached a certain level of stability and have also achieved some significant number of adopters...

Myriad could quite possibly be working on a version of their compatibility software for ART to roll out to their clients / customers...

They have made a lot of progress in a short time. Compare to Ubuntu for Devices.

It is sad that they don't even have their proprietary Jolla Phone in the USA yet.

It would be nice if some OEM's would get on board, but it probably takes some carrier interest as well. Compare to Firefox OS.
[Sailfish General] DeepPurple15X:
Have you had any luck downloading apps from jolla-store ? I tried a couple of times it just loops but doesn't download. I then tried

ssu ar store https://store-repository.jolla.com/SbJ/armv7hl/

It didn't help much so I tried installing packages via zypper it asked me credentials I put my Jolla a/c but it just kept asking it again. If you managed to download packages othen the openrepos rpm then please tell me.
[Sailfish General] aironeous:
Jolla store will be down for a few hours. They are preparing for the new update. See TJC website.
[Sailfish General] LightingZ:
When they will release N4 update i will start trying Cracking Alien Dalvik (although it's illegal , but also downloading MP3's from TPB & Watching onlline instant pirate videos) but i'm doing it only for my curiousity so basically, if i'll make it happen,not sure if i will publish it due piracy and other things. (I have knowledge in hacking and security.but i think this one is gonna be easy as pie.)
[Sailfish General] DrGit:
Good luck not getting reprimanded by Myriad and/or Jolla. As much as I disagree with Myriad's decision not to open-source Alien Dalvik, and despite wanting to mess with it myself, I haven't found the motivation to do so. First off, it requires a kernel module that won't work on the N4 without lots of needless hacking (version mismatches and module loading disabled, which means you need to rebuild the kernel). Secondly, the Jolla App Store seems to be very picky about downloading apps, and I've never even gotten my Jolla account to register with the app store. That might have something to do with me running Sailfish in MultiROM, which is a big ugly hack, but I don't know for sure because I decided to remove it until the next update rolls out.

TL;DR - be patient and let Jolla sort out the licensing with Myriad.
[Sailfish General] DeepPurple15X:
I think the first step would be to be able to install apk. I mean we dont need Google proprietary services and Play Store, cause we always have FOSS and F-droid.
[Sailfish General] ghling:
So, is there anywhere a "I would totally pay money to use the full Sailfish OS with Alien Dalvik on my phone" list where I can add my name to encourage Jolla to sell ports / licenses with the Alien Dalvik included?

I'm a big fan of Sailfish and it's concept, but have bought a Nexus 5 because I haven't yet heard of Jolla then. Having an alternative to Android would be so great, but without the native support for APKs there is a huge part missing. So I would totally pay money to get that.
[Sailfish General] MooNWalker:
Admittedly in my case the only thing I need to switch to Sailfish as my primary mobile system is either Google Voice support or a good Google Voice alternative. I've been looking at Twilio, but from what I understand I won't be able to make phone calls through Twilio somewhere where internet access is present but not fast enough for proper VoIP. Once I figure out that question I don't really need any Dalvik or whatnot, I can write other few non-standard apps I need.
[Sailfish General] cobhc87:
It's strange that the team of sailfish OS does't work by itself on a open and free virtual machine for its OS. Meego was totally freeand open source.

Sorry for my English.
[Sailfish General] blackout23:
...and so is Mer, which is the core of Sailfish OS....
[Sailfish General] cobhc87:
I don't know why they talked about Qt, Wayland, and bla bla...and then they use close-source emulator!

:rolleyes: