yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Project Ara General] qwerty_man:
This is great input!! I'm all for designing everything for the best user-experience.

The upside of designing the keyboard to support the battery (and probably more/all modules) is that if the slider-keyboard uses both the camera module slot and the battery slot on the ARA endoskeleton, the mechanical support of those slots could be enough to support the entire keyboard + mechanism. This would mean there's no need for extra (ugly) mechanical fixtures around the phone frame/skeleton, like in the samsung picture posted earlier.

Actually from the weight perspetive here, it would be preferable to go back to what was stated earlier in this thread: put the keyboard module behind the screen. That way the screen is the lightest part and the rest of the phone + keyboard slide out from under it, forming the heavier part... hmmmm... But I had just said that the keyboard on the back would be the best... hmmm... engineering :P lol

PS: I ordered an ARA dev-kit. They are limited and get assigned to a select group of people only. If I get one it would be a lot easier to judge the mechanical design possibilities.
[Project Ara General] divie:
Sounds awesome. I could definitely live with a setup like that. Especially if that creates the opportunity for a higher capacity battery than the regular module one.
[Project Ara General] BoezeGott:
I really hope this happens. I was already really excited for the ARA to begin with and hadn't even thought of this possibility. I really miss my Qwerty phone. I don't think the extra thickness of the keyboard would really be a problem for people wanting the extra functionality. There are many other accessories that make phones quite a bit thicker and heavier that sell quite well.
[Project Ara General] qwerty_man:
I'm pretty sure there must be other people looking at developing this. The cool thing about the market for these QWERTY keyboards is that we're all hardcore fans of it, we don't care about thickness or weight, we need to be able to type!! This makes the motivation to develop this a lot greater.

By the way, here is something nice to follow. Another Dutch guy who made a keyboard for the Jolla smartphone and raised over 160.000 EUR on kickstarter for it. If he can do it, I/we can do it. :D

[YOUTUBE]zrq7djS1PtQ[/YOUTUBE]

I think I could do a better design than that for the ARA. His design has a few flaws:

It's top heavy (the screen part is heavier than the keyboard part). This is probably irritating when using it. See earlier post.

The keyboard and smartphone part are not attached to each other (held together by magnets only). There's not guid-rail for in-out sliding as far as I can tell. This means the keyboard can fall off while sliding if you don't actually hold it against the phone...

Maybe there are some more negative design choices we could avoid with an ARA keyboard?
[Project Ara General] rierku:
Hello.

I, too, am a fan of slider phones, but my Motorola Milestone 2 is getting old, and the Photon Q, which is already not the newest anymore either, has never seen an official release outside the US. The possibility of a slider module for the ARA has me very excited.

Going over this thread, I saw some nice ideas as well as some limitations mentioned, so I thought I'd add my 2 cents.

First of all, I don't quite see how how the design guidelines set by google are a big problem. As long as the protocol for additional hardware is open you should be able to stick almost anything from a small module to a brick on there, that shouldn't be a problem. How is the device going to be able to tell if something is larger than Google wants it to be? As far as I understood it, the Skeleton is similar in function to a PCs motherboard.

As for how to attach a sliding keyboard to the skeleton... Using one of the standard ones, and I'm going with the mid size one here since that seems to be the one I'd be most interested in here, I could imagine two ways, depending on how well that semipermanent electro magnet connection holds. If it's strong enough, I'd just say attach it via the upper AND lower slots. (If you look at a picture of the middle size base board, The two longer ones on the backside.) if it's attached on both sides, it should hold quite well and be rather stable.

If the electromagnetic force isn't strong enough for just clipping it on below, maybe instead use the upper and lower connectors from the front side and have it wrap around the side, like a backpack. Then it would be held from up top via the electromagnet and be supported from below from the keyboard drawer.

Now both solutions use up two slots, the second one even front ones which decrease the size of the screenspace. To make that more feasible, you could integrate secondary functions to make up for it. For the rear attaching one, it could include things like extra storage, additional battery, connectivity module (BT, WLAN, SIM card slot) or a rear speaker. Things you'd need anyway. For the front mounted one, the "clamps" could double as better speakers, which would benefit those using their phone a lot for videos or games. Basically, the idea is that just because the ARA LET'S you put in everything as a single module, doesn't mean you can't make modules that integrate more than one function. Or at least that's what I'd expect.

The other, probably more elegant, but also more difficult solution I see would be to make a custom base plate with an integrated slider keyboard. On the front and back you can attach your modules as with the normal ARA, but in between there's the slider keyboard assembly. In theory, the skeleton is just another part like the modules. so swapping it out like modules should be a thing, too.
[Project Ara General] matt8484:
This project/idea is so interesting.

The only good option I see is to integrate the keyboard within the screen module just like the concept on page 2.

The question is : is it feasible ??

I miss my Moto milestone so much...
[Project Ara General] OfficerJimLahey:
+1 to this. The balance would be preferable than having the keyboard on the back.

And you don't need a keyboard option for every size and display type either (which would create dozens of front plates). Just try for ~5:

Low end/resolution (480 x 800), 1.3MP front camera, small skeleton

mid range screen, ~5MP front camera, small skeleton

Low end/resolution (480 x 800), 1.3MP fromt camera, medium skeleton

mid range screen, ~5MP front camera, medium skeleton

high resolution display, >5MP front camera, medium skeleton

I don't know if there would be a demand for keyboards on the large endos or not (I think the only group that would care about the extra ~3mm thickness would be the phablet group).

No need to worry about the large endos for the time being anyway, as they are not among the first to be released.
[Project Ara General] dsfdfsdfs:
I agree that a combined display+keyboard module probably be best, and that there is no need to accommodate every possible module type.

However, note that there are 4 different display module sizes per each endo size (1 with no other front modules, 1 with single receiver/media-module, 1 with receiver/media-module on each end, 1 with bb-style keyboard module).

I think limiting to just one configuration might be OK, if it is needed to make this feasible (1 option is better than 0). Probably a mid/high range module covering entire front side (or, if that configuration will be uncommon or is significantly harder, one of the other configurations).

If multiple different types would be made, I'd probably still drop at least the small skeleton sizes out (the width of those is 45mm, which seems quite small if you want a physical keyboard in there - 15% smaller than Xperia mini pro).

Again, though, I'm not a HW designer at all, just a software guy.
[Project Ara General] OfficerJimLahey:
Even tighter for a virtual keyboard. A 45x118 form factor, if you can make it all screen, would be almost 5". Now my F3Q has a 4" screen with the dimensions of 68x122, so a more realistic screen size for that form factor would be ~3.5-3.6".

Depending what all you can pack into the 2x5 frame, I believe it is ideal for a keyboard. It would be low end, as in dual core, 1GB RAM, but as long as you can squeeze in a 8GB ROM, decent camera, GPS, microSD (are they making these?), and a good battery capacity (2000[+]mAh) that's all that is necessary for such a small form factor, and something I would buy (and prefer over the nexus 5 sized device).

Not to take attention away from the medium size skeleton ;)
[Project Ara General] rierku:
It seems they expect the magnets to be strong enough to hold when it has to support the weight of the whole phone.

In that case, an underslung slider would be feasible, too, without too much trouble.

Though, feeling wise, I still think a combined screen/keyboard slider module for the front would handle better.
[Project Ara General] divie:
How about something like this is this easier to implement with the different front ara screen sizes and module placements?

Sent from my SM-T320 with Tapatalk 4
[Project Ara General] pelago:
The picture's a bit too dark for me to see, but is this a portrait slider, like for example the Palm Pre?

If so, personally I find those two small to comfortably type on, and I for one would prefer a landscape slider.
[Project Ara General] qwerty_man:
Just a quick update. I haven't received an ARA dev-kit so no news or prototypes from my side (believe me, if they'd send me one I'd have a first dummy 3D printed mockup going within a couple of days). I guess the dev-kits are for large established companies only or something. I haven't even received any feedback to my request for a kit.

Also, I gave the whole discussion on screensizes another thought. I don't think the variation in ARA-sizes will be a problem at first, since I believe they'll only release one ARA size at first...

The bigger problem (apparently) is getting a dev-kit to be able to develop anything at all, the second biggest problem is putting it on the market. This is a problem, because the first ARA release is happening in Puerto Rico in 2015. Quite a small market to do a kickstarter compaign or something...

Any thoughts?
[Project Ara General] rierku:
According to wikipedia, the three size categories come out to

Mini	45 × 118 × 9.7 mm	2 × 5

Medium	68 × 141 × 9.7 mm	3 × 6

Large	91 × 164 × 9.7 mm	4 × 7

For comparison, a Motorola Droid 4 is 67.3 x 127 x 12.7 mm, my current Droid 2 is 60.5 x 116.3 x 13.7 mm

So the Mini Frame is even smaller than a Droid 2. I'd say, for a slider keyboard, you could probably ignore it, since the keys on it would have to be so small, they become unusable, especially if you consider that there needs to be a connection.

The Large might.. just be a bit too big to comfortable reach all buttons with your thumbs. plus with a bigger screen, on-screen keyboards are a bit less of a hassle to use, so most people would go with that instead of having the additional cost of the keyboard, though there'd certainly be some people who'd like it

I think, the most successful version of a combined screen/slider keyboard module would be a full size front module for the medium frame, that either has the keyboard in the middle while the screen is elevated enough to slide over media modules on either side of it, or if that screen module came with those integrated.
[Project Ara General] anzi2:
I would also like to see slide qwerty, but maybe some kind of flip mechanism would work too?

For example, see the Flippypad.

For second example, yezz showed off kind of flippable module, called as "timeline" if i know right. There is some pictures of this at digitaltrends.

The mechanism & look of this seems to be ok for me, only minus is that i couldn't find any exact examples of flip modules with full qwerty keyboard on the backside.

I hope everyone still understands my point! Feel free to say what you think.. and if there is someone with good graphical skills, maybe he/she can draw an better example picture of this? =)

Ps. Maybe there can also be kind of notification screen at the front side of the qwerty keyboard, like in nokia 2720. This would eliminate the need to always open the keyboard to check what kind of notifications there is to see. My only worry in that is if the flip part will then be too thick..
[Project Ara General] mystik1:
Really anxious to see this come out and also a keyboard module for it.
[Project Ara General] Faultier80:
I would prefer an Keyboard as the Droid 4 white an Case in the art of motorollas backflip white an "oversized" cell as mugen (i can live white 1,5 cm of thickness).

That would be unique :)
[Project Ara General] Renaldas2000:
That would be pretty cool. And maybe have another version of that that's like the gamepad on the Xperia Play
[Project Ara General] joaohkfaria:
Do you really need physical keyboard?
[Project Ara General] divie:
That question has been answered and explained multiple times in this thread. Especially the first few posts.

In short: yes.

Sent from my SM-T320 with Tapatalk 4
[Project Ara General] mystik1:
I would surely love to have one. I "get by" with the virtual keyboard, but it is such a pain. Wasted space, input difficulties, etc. I sincerely wish they would not have moved away from physical keyboards with high-end phones (after all, Android was supposed to be all about choice and options, I thought). But, I guess, in the end I have given them up in order to get the performance of a high-end phone and larger screen. I often find myself cursing the virtual keyboards, and spend way too much time trying out new keyboards trying to find a better solution. I want my keyboard back! :)
[Project Ara General] Ace42:
I personally miss sliders... I loved all the Sidekicks, especially the Android one. The G1 & My touch had great keyboards too, but it would be nice for android sliders to see a revival.

Sent From Capsule Corp.
[Project Ara General] modularmania:
Project Ara with keyboard module

Made by

modularmania.com
[Project Ara General] rierku:
That's pretty much a Blackberry though.
[Project Ara General] acwest:
Indeed, there aren't too many advantages to a hardware keyboard like that, it is still too narrow, and you lose the screen real estate all of the time, not just when you are typing...
[Project Ara General] mystik1:
Yea, I would like a slider setup.
[Project Ara General] DragonMama:
I agree with above commenters, that design holds zero interest, if I wanted an always getting bumped space waster keyboard I would get another blackberry.

Mount the keyboard into the endo where the screen is intended to go, with slide or hinge mechanism acting as connection passthru to screen electronics. Keyboard layout NOT straight stack columns like all the aftermarket crap out there for iPhones which I have been looking at out of desperation with the intention to mod because my almost 4 year old HTC My Touch 4g Slide is dying, rebooting when about every 4th call comes in as the phone is ringing and all the ones for Android phones are even WORSE. I won't use an iToy, I don't play games or watch movies on my phone but in make heavy use of it as a pocket office machine so yes, I NEED a decent physical keyboard. I tapped this out in Swype on my 7in tablet and am suppressing much loud profanity as my children are in the room. I have spent as much time correcting the mistakes as I have spent composing. Autocorrect produces gibberish for those of us who possess and utilize a beyond middle school vocabulary and I keep hitting b or v instead of the spacebar since there is no physical way of determining where my finger is. The choice is watch my fingers hit letters for accuracy (instead of watching output as I am used to doing as a touchtypist of 20+), or constant editing of what I just attempted to type but that got auto corrected to the point of looking like my 2 year old wrote it.

To the "do you really need a physical keyboard" noninsightful buttinsky: yes. Give me my MyTouch in a non-glitching condition and I can take near real time dictation or compose text at about 80% of my 110 words per minute typing speed. If you are a rapid hunt-and-pecker on a physical keyboard, then Swype is probably just as fast (aka slow, compared to my normal) for you, so I can understand why you don't understand the functional distinction. Go back to playing with your portable internet connected toy and leave those of us who use our devices in grown-up ways to have our grown-up conversations about function and design. Your size doesn't fit all when it comes to electronic devices any more than it does to shoe size. It makes as much sense for me to as YOU "do you really need voice call functionality?" given how I have seen so may people use their "phones" including myself. I spend about 80% of my phone's screen on time composing text, not staring passively at it while it entertains me, so yes, I NEED a physical keyboard. Mmmmkay?
[Project Ara General] matt8484:
That remind me so much of the old Nokia's like the Communicator9000 or the 6822.

Though this style is not too great because you have to open the phone each time you want to do someting. With a slider you can do anything when it's closed and type like a boss when it's open. :D
[Project Ara General] acwest:
Yezz keyboard

Looking through the 28 module concepts Yezz has, one of them is a keyboard. Not really what we are looking for, but at least they have noticed that some of us want a keyboard...

http://www.modularphonesforum.com/w..._project_ara_keyboard_case_module_concept.png

It appears to be more of a flip keyboard case than anything else, so I'm not sure why it would need to be an Ara module, though...
[Project Ara General] vPaN:
You can do it look li!e this:

The sliding keyboard have a "hidden" connector that when it slides to end slider is blocked and module connected :)

When connected the psychical keyboard hides and you can use HW keyboard.

Wyfapane znaczy wytapane z SGT2 7.0" Lollipop CM12.1

Fap fap... Sorry - tap tap from SGT2 7,0" Lolipop CM12.1
[Project Ara General] Ralse:
You've got my vote for this regarding project Ara for sure.

Physical keyboards are still so much faster than onscreen keyboard.

I beat all my friends in a typing race with about 30% (I make a lot of typo's).

The concerns I have with Ara however is the durability of the components.

I like to make choices as much as I like my phone to be waterproof.

Sounds like a tricky thing to do with Ara.
[Project Ara General] ajbiz11:
Typing efficiently is more important than typing quickly. In all honesty, looking at the reviews of the BB Priv, people are finally starting to admit that touch typing is faster, all from reviewers that used to despise soft keyboards.

Maybe you'll get lucky and see this become a thing. I'm more interested in something like Flippypad
[Project Ara General] allpet66:
I think you're discussing about nothing (Ara is like Santa Claus-Every one know him but nobody have seen him).......
[Project Ara General] qwerty_man:
I kind of have to agree on this. When was ARA first announced? 5 years ago? 10 years ago?

The release date keeps being pushed by Google, they're not sending out much dev-kits and developments are extremely slow.

My conclusion is that they're not taking it seriously at all, they're not investing the resources they should to make ARA happen and it's never actually going to be released ever.

Project ARA is vaporware to me. Just one of the many Google projects where the plug gets pulled even before it gets a chance.
[Project Ara General] ramiabouzahra:
I think you're completely right, they haven't put project ARA in the high priority list I guess. They just showed it to us and now we are hyped for something that maybe even will not be released until 2020. There was a video showing boot up but it was extremely slow. If that is going to be a flagship it has to keep up with the technology that is going on right now, otherwise we will have a phone released 2020 with the specs of a phone in 2012.
[Project Ara General] sreejiraj:
release around IO?

I believe they are serious about it. Today there's a report that they could release it as early as next month, and that it's a phone, not a tablet. see: rtn.asia /t-t/18497/
[Project Ara General] acwest:
I have always been quite certain it's a phone, the whole tablet thing is likely due to somebody plugging a monitor into a test set-up.
[Project Ara General] sreejiraj:
According to the article, the actual screen size was 13.8 cm, not 13.8 inch. 13.8 cm is exactly equal to 5.5 inches.
[Project Ara General] Shani Ace:
I landed on this thread when I was searching for anything regarding Project Ara and a keyboard module, but sadly there were no news to find. However, I don't get unfoundedly pessimistic comments like these:

Nope, 2013, merely 2-3 years ago. BTW have you ever heard of Wikipedia? It contains information like this that you can look up before posting such nonsense.

Furthermore, have you even researched anything before coming to your so-called conclusion that "they're not taking it seriously at all, they're not investing the resources they should to make ARA happen and it's never actually going to be released ever"? Because they already developed an advanced prototype and were about to release it in 2015.

The only reason they didn't is the fact that it failed the fall-down test, meaning that the magnets weren't strong enough to hold the modules together when the phone fell down on the ground. I'd call that a minor setback, it's no big obstacle and nothing that can't be fixed.
[Project Ara General] acwest:
Apparently the comment on failing the fall-down test was a joke, although they did seem to rethink the whole magnetic connector concept. I am rather hopeful that there will be good news soon.
[Project Ara General] Shani Ace:
The way it was described in the news, it seemed more like calling it a joke was a cover-up, since they later deleted that entry. So my assumption is that Google didn't want investors/the public to lose trust in their project.