yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Galaxy Note 10.1 (2014 Edition) Q&A, Help & Troubl] BarryH_GEG:
Saying inflammatory things and then posting "no need to reply" is passive aggressive. There are two possible benefits of HMP - 1) using combinations of A7 and A15 cores across clusters and 2) going beyond the current max of 4 A15 cores. Do you know if there's battery life to be saved by using 2 A7 cores and 1 A15 core as opposed to using 2 A15 cores? I don't but I'm guessing the advantage to be minimal. You don't have to be an engineer to understand that using cores in addition to the current max of 4 A15's is going to create more heat and draw more power.
[Galaxy Note 10.1 (2014 Edition) Q&A, Help & Troubl] dpersuhn:
Just a thought, but allowing HMP during periods of high load and having all 8 cores online all the time represent two different scenarios. If core OS functions could remain on an A7 and yield all 4 A15s to applications, you could see an improvement purely due to a reduction in OS interrupt servicing. The case for thermal dissipation and battery life represents an unknown as to how much of an impact it would really have. It would be highly dependent upon how heavily you are using the active cores. The penalty would be proportionate to how hard you're pushing it.

All that said, I tend to agree with BarryH_GEG. Samsung hasn't demonstrated a lot in the forward thinking department. They make capable tablets, but just don't have it together on a lot of fronts and definitely don't strive to optimize products in a way that delivers maximum performance. Their focus is primarily on gimmicks and visual features and hitting a point of "acceptable", not exceptional performance. I'm not bashing, I have owned numerous galaxy line products and will continue to do so until a viable active digitizer tablet surpasses the note line. It's just a business play on their part. You expend enough development resources to get a mainstream sale, no more.

The note 12.2 is a prime example. At the time of release, Samsung has no book cover available, poor planning. They didn't have Hancom Office in the preloaded image and it wasn't available until a day after release, also poor planning. The end result is a customer experience that isn't smooth and demonstrative of a company that gives significant consideration to first impressions or user experience.
[Galaxy Note 10.1 (2014 Edition) Q&A, Help & Troubl] rushless:
I have had my Note 2014 (32GB) for two days and would not want to have both core sets running at the same time. The device can already get very warm in the SOC area and the battery drains just like my iPad 4 when playing 3D games- faster than I want it to. Games are smooth and ditto for apps, so not seeing an advantage of all eight, but see the two key disadvantages. Not running into any core hand-off issues some are reporting that can cause lag. Not yet anyway.

Added:

I use Nova for my launcher, since IMO much better than Samsung's. Based on performance, I see no reason for me to root the 2014. Very happy already, so see no need to rock the boat.
[Galaxy Note 10.1 (2014 Edition) Q&A, Help & Troubl] Duly.noted:
Who knows we all love to tinker, maybe a dev will develop a Kernel that enables it. I wouidt trust Samsung to do it LOL
[Galaxy Note 10.1 (2014 Edition) Q&A, Help & Troubl] DeBoX:
articles regarding note 3 exynos and HMP

http://www.nextpowerup.com/news/413...oftware-patch-which-unlocks-8-core-power.html

in russian , but use google translate, you get the point

http://hi-tech.mail.ru/news/misc/samsung-no-real-octacore.html
[Galaxy Note 10.1 (2014 Edition) Q&A, Help & Troubl] Stevethegreat:
It is completely false to say that HMP would impact battery, if anything the opposite is true. There are very few applications which could even in principle use all 8 cores. Instead most of the times 3 is where apps max out, which would make little sense to enable HMP for performance reasons. But it makes all the sense in the world to enable it for battery reasons.

Samsung released a video a couple of months ago showing just that. Having all 8 cores enabled at the same time means that you have the 4 little one take most of the workload and the 4 big ones only be enabled as needed. This would result in unbelievable battery savings. Imagine an occasion where 4 little cores are not enough, what does the current implementation of big.little does? Oh but enable the 4 big cores disabling the little ones, so it ends up at times to light all 4 big cores when 4 little ones + 1 big one would be enough, this results in far lower battery.

HMP is a great idea both in paper and in practice, see the new Note Neo, it's using HMP to perfection and manages with "lower" hardware to perform as well as it's elder brother as well as be more energy efficient. *This* should be our example. Exynos 5420 is HMP compatible and it would only take a dev to enable it. I don't think that it will happen, but *if* it will it would instantly lead to far better devices...

Note 2014 has rather mediocre battery, my gf's ipad mini with almost half the MAHs has more juice. That's partly because the exynos chip is not very energy efficient. Enable all 8 cores and it will become that...

BTW the Note Neo sources (with HMP enabled) were just released. If we had a more active community I would expect an HMP patch coming from the community soon. Sadly seeing how badly misinformed most people are about HMP I don't think anyone would put the effort required and we'd stay with gimped devices ... oh well.
[Galaxy Note 10.1 (2014 Edition) Q&A, Help & Troubl] Lodix:
Thanks to god there are people who talk about something with knowledge... Tired of people saying 8 cores will kill the battery and are unnecesary.

I own the qualcomm model but I hope exynos users will have HMP sooner as possible.
[Galaxy Note 10.1 (2014 Edition) Q&A, Help & Troubl] DeBoX:
Very enlightening indeed. cudos to Stevethegreat.
[Galaxy Note 10.1 (2014 Edition) Q&A, Help & Troubl] BarryH_GEG:
Neither the A7 or A15 clusters run "all or nothing;" meaning you don't need HMP to run between 1-4 cores on each individual cluster. In your example, what's the energy saving between running 4 A7 + 1 A15 vs. running two A15? I don't know the answer but that's the delta as to what type of energy savings can be achieved by picking and choosing across clusters vs. stepping between 1 and 4 active cores within an individual cluster. At the end of the day each individual A7 and A15 core contributes a specific amount of performance and consumes a specific amount of energy. Software engineers set performance in steps, probably between 6-8, with each threshold using a prescribed number of cores to achieve a set performance output (and consume a set amount of energy). Today they're limited to 1-4 A7 cores

or

1-4 A15 cores. Not knowing what those 6-8 stepped thresholds are who's to say what the definitive impact on energy use would be if they could choose between 1-4 A7 cores

and

1-4 A15 cores?

Incidentally, Media Tek's HMP big.LITTLE SoC runs eight A7 cores (two quad A7 clusters). No one else licensing big.LITTLE is using HMP across different types of cores (EG: A7 vs. A15).

http://www.fonearena.com/blog/88620...-octa-core-chip-offers-speeds-up-to-2ghz.html
[Galaxy Note 10.1 (2014 Edition) Q&A, Help & Troubl] rushless:
My undergrad is computer electronics (though over ten years ago). Tech has changed a lot, but laws of electrical physics have stayed constant. Saying it is completely false seems as scientifically dubious as saying it is completely true. Samsung was concerned about thermals with the current devices. Seems that ties with likely more sustained peak watt consumption, so warmer running and more potential for battery consumption.

With the current SOC being a 28 nM build, how does higher performance not equal more heat and less battery? Respectfully does not add up. Added: Unless the nM goes down in correlation to increased speed which can not be the case. That is unless the core mix results in an exponential speed curve, which would also be very unlikely.

Again, the premise of point here is in regard to faster performance and not power efficency.

Added 2 : BarryH does a fine job of articulating. The benefit would be efficiency and not a speed boost that would not come with a thermal and battery life cost, since the fixed constant is the 28nM.
[Galaxy Note 10.1 (2014 Edition) Q&A, Help & Troubl] BarryH_GEG:
Here are some examples. Under light load the A7 cluster is being used with each core's output changing individually and dynamically based on demand. Under heavy load all four A15 cores are outputting at max. It's hard to capture pics of the individual cores output fluctuating at idle or light load within each cluster because using S Pen to take a screen cap ramps up load. But if you want to see the interplay between cores within each cluster as demand changes download CPU-Z and play with some different apps on your device.

Having nothing to do with Samsung Electronics who wants to sell mobile devices and is SoC agnostic, Samsung Semiconductor who fiercely competes with Qualcomm would sell their left testicle to develop a chip that provides near-identical performance to S-800 while offering 25% better energy usage. And if HMP was the "Holy Grail" and "silver bullet" that allowed that to happen it would be deployed now and mobile manufacturers would be lined up to buy it.

And this is from a Qualcomm "anti-Octa" video. 85% of apps in use don't use more than two of the four cores on Qualcomm's chips.

In the Octa-world that translates to "never leaves the A7 cluster."

So from a performance perspective adding the A7 cores on top of the A15 cores under high-demand is kind of like turbo charging and a pretty clear benefit (energy use and thermal issues aside). But outside that HMP for pure energy savings doesn't seem to add a lot of value. Which is probably why it isn't implemented.
[Galaxy Note 10.1 (2014 Edition) Q&A, Help & Troubl] Stevethegreat:
@ barry, Rushless: Per-watt performance of A7 cores is greater than that of A15 cores, I'm relatively short of time so I cannot find sources, but when I'll return I'll you provide you some if you wish. That means quite clearly that any combination of A15 and A7 is *always* more energy efficient than A15 cores running alone. That is one...

The second is that if you run both A15 and A7 cores at once you're going to run peak watt situations that's to be sure. But apart from Benchmarks and maybe some games there are not many use cases that can achieve that. Still if it is determined that running all 8 cores exceeds the thermal envelope of a tablet (remember we are not talking about a phone here, Note 10.1 is a tablet) you can *always* throttle the cpus forcing them to run at a lower wattage. In other words cap the energy requirements of the cpu.

Those (1 and 2) would result to better battery at no reliability cost. It's a win-win scenario that it is seriously beyond me why is it not attempted by Samsung. I honestly have to think that there is more in play than simply "can't be done". The far more thermally constricted Note Neo can run 6 cores (4 small, 2 big) at once no problem, so it is no stretch to think that a tablet could run maybe 4 small cores + 3 big ones before throttling gets in place, still almost as energy efficient as running 4 A15 cores, at a higher performance.

I can see no downsides, I honestly can't...
[Galaxy Note 10.1 (2014 Edition) Q&A, Help & Troubl] BarryH_GEG:
Absolutely. It's the thesis behind big.LITTLE. But the maximum output of A7 is limited because it's tuned for efficiency.

Look at it this way. Both Qualcomm and ARM say in different ways that 85% of use cases stay on two Qualcomm cores and never leave A7 on big.LITTLE. Let's be conservative and say it's really 75%. Let's assume that under high demand 10% of what's being processed never leaves A15. In both those conservative scenarios which comprise 85% of SoC usage HMP is meaningless. That leaves a potential 15% of use cases that might benefit from some combination of A7 and A15 rather than being confined to a single cluster. Let's also assume that in that scenario introducing HMP improves the energy use of the 15% by 25%. In the overall scheme of things in terms of total energy usage (battery life) that's not very meaningful and probably why there's been no rush to implement HMP (other than by Media Tek as a marketing grab). Perhaps the engineers looked at the potential gain and decided it wasn't worth the added complexity; especially if 25% less energy draw on 15% of use cases is aggressive which if I had to guess I'd say it probably is. In other words, playing with tuning and optimization within each cluster nets you similar performance vs. energy draw more simply than adding the complexity of HMP.
[Galaxy Note 10.1 (2014 Edition) Q&A, Help & Troubl] rushless:
It would be nice to have the option to at least compare it on and off :)

My point was really in regards to some folks thinking having both cores running full at the same time would be a good thing when it would not, based on how warm and how quick the 2014 can already drain battery. That is all. Core juggling all eight in some balanced fashion is different. Seems already doing that though. Question being is the power gate in series to each core, or in series to each set of four? If in series to each core, that would have a better power advantage, but would be an odd design to standard.

Samsung did mention that thermals with current devices was a reason not an option for now.
[Galaxy Note 10.1 (2014 Edition) Q&A, Help & Troubl] Duly.noted:
I am curious about the neo hmp though
[Galaxy Note 10.1 (2014 Edition) Q&A, Help & Troubl] Stevethegreat:
@ barry: I have to dispute that in 85% of the situations the little cluster is enough. My observations showed an about even 50-50 distribution between the big and the little cluster. Let's say now that my usage of the machine is untypical, still you have to concede that a *tablet* is used differently than a phone and qualcomm's (or whomever's) calculations would had been different if done to a tablet.

Now let us say that 4 little cores can net the performance of 2 big cores at 66% of energy usage (even though it is more like 50%) that in turn would mean 8%-16% better battery for most users, or maybe even closer to 12%-25%. Even if just 8% is given to the user it means he will have 7% left in the tank by the time a non-hmp tablet would shut down and it can be scaled up to 20-25% left in the tank when heavy usage is concerned, that's not little by any means and since exynos socs rather suffer battery wise I dont see why this is not pursued in tablets at least.

It is not a hard implementation considering it has already been implemented hardware wise. All it needs is a patch to be released which will say that when more than 4 little cores and 3 big ones are maxed for more than a few seconds throttle the machine. This is another thing that has already be done, try to get a higher clock from exynos 5420 and see what happens (it is throttled even if you run at lower wattage)

[MENTION=788411]rushless[/MENTION]: Again I have to say that I'm more concerned with higher efficiency than higher performance. What Samsung mentioned sounds more like sth to say to keep people calm. There are no thermal consideration to the much smaller note 3 neo, why should there be any to a much better ventilated/roomy tablet especially when throttling is taken into consideration.

@ dully.noted : Sure take a look at note neo's and note 3's battery review

Note 3: http://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_galaxy_note_3-review-996p3.php

Note neo: http://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_galaxy_note_3_neo-review-1038p3.php

Look at 3g and Web browsing numbers where is where the cpu is mostly used (the playback test tests screen technology efficiency which is not what we care about here).

Keep in mind that the Note 3 in question is using the even more efficient qualcomm soc than exynos one and still manages to come short compared to hmp, despite using a bigger battery (3200 mah). What's more according to antutu and most multi threaded cpu tests note neo's cpu delivers very equivalent results to note 3's at a much more efficient manner.

...again I don't see why hmp is not enabled given that all it needs is a darn patch ...
[Galaxy Note 10.1 (2014 Edition) Q&A, Help & Troubl] ozz007:
Does anyone knows for fact, if the Note Pro 12.2 has the HMP update? Or a link that may show if it does or is going to get it?
[Galaxy Note 10.1 (2014 Edition) Q&A, Help & Troubl] nrage23:
No Samsung device has HMP currently.
[Galaxy Note 10.1 (2014 Edition) Q&A, Help & Troubl] Stevethegreat:
Two posts above you : http://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_galaxy_note_3_neo-review-1038p6.php

Not only it does have HMP but it also posts better battery and performance than equivalent hardware. What is more its sources are released a talented Dev (ala patwip in the original galaxy phone) may convert it for use to exynos 5420, letting us enjoy all the benefits associated with it, but I kinda doubt it will happen...
[Galaxy Note 10.1 (2014 Edition) Q&A, Help & Troubl] nrage23:
Nothing you can buy from Samsung has HMP enabled. I hope that it worded better.
[Galaxy Note 10.1 (2014 Edition) Q&A, Help & Troubl] Stevethegreat:
As far as we are concerned though (according to the original question) there is an HMP implementation out there. It's in the source code of Note 3 Neo, maybe it's not directly transferable to our devices, but there is a way to study the nuts and bolts of HMP.

As for the device itself, it will be out within this coming week in certain places.
[Galaxy Note 10.1 (2014 Edition) Q&A, Help & Troubl] ozz007:
Do you think the pro devices will get the HMP?
[Galaxy Note 10.1 (2014 Edition) Q&A, Help & Troubl] nrage23:
As it has been stated earlier in this post, It does not benefit Samsung in any way so I do not see it happening on their part.
[Galaxy Note 10.1 (2014 Edition) Q&A, Help & Troubl] BarryH_GEG:
Here's your HMP. You just need to buy a device with Exynos 5422 (we have 5420) to get it. ;)

Samsung announced two new mobile SoCs at MWC today. The first is an update to the Exynos 5 Octa with the new Exynos 5422. The 5422 is a mild update to the 5420, which was found in some international variants of the Galaxy Note 3. The new SoC is still built on a 28nm process at Samsung, but enjoys much higher frequencies on both the Cortex A7 and A15 clusters. The two clusters can run their cores at up to 1.5GHz and 2.1GHz, respectively.

The 5422 supports HMP (Heterogeneous Multi-Processing), and Samsung LSI tells us that unlike the 5420 we may actually see this one used with HMP enabled. HMP refers to the ability for the OS to use and schedule threads on all 8 cores at the same time, putting those threads with low performance requirements on the little cores and high performance threads on the big cores.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7811/samsungs-exynos-5422-the-ideal-biglittle-exynos-5-hexa-5260​
[Galaxy Note 10.1 (2014 Edition) Q&A, Help & Troubl] rushless:
I keep thinking "hemp" when I see HMP.
[Galaxy Note 10.1 (2014 Edition) Q&A, Help & Troubl] Duly.noted:
Thats interesting. With the same 28nm process and the higher frequencies these should produce more heat than the 5420 (sounds like they overclocked a 5420 to me and called it a new chips lol) yet they might use hmp despite heat concerns with the 5420. Thats weird since it should produce more heat unless they are drastically reducing the energy consumption somehow. Any thoughts [MENTION=1493949]BarryH_GEG[/MENTION]
[Galaxy Note 10.1 (2014 Edition) Q&A, Help & Troubl] BarryH_GEG:
Me? Thoughts? Never. ;) I guess it's no different than Qualcomm introducing the higher-clocked S-801.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7783/...01-msm8974ac-the-new-32bit-flagship-until-805

I know enough about chip design to be dangerous. I don't know if heat creation is linear - meaning that if increasing clock speed 10% means heat's also increased by the same ratio. Regardless, the OEMs that end up using 5422 and S-801 will know their performance profiles and design for it. That, at least in Samsung's vague comments about not using HMP after-the-fact in 5420, is why HMP being dormant in existing devices is likely to stay that way.
[Galaxy Note 10.1 (2014 Edition) Q&A, Help & Troubl] Duly.noted:
I concur. It does throw out the heat argument I keep seeing though. It seems that the idea they were holding off on it to bring it out for the next generation was accurate. This is great too because it shows us that a kernel with identical design process is coming out with hmp we could have ported. (Possibly extending the life expectancy of our devices technology wise) While im happy with my performance (this thing is a beast) the possibility of better battery life and performance (no processor switching) is intriguing. So for you guys that really want hmp start reading up on android kernels and talking to some kernel devs. Maybe you could be the one to bring is hmp instead of getting on here and begging for it.
[Galaxy Note 10.1 (2014 Edition) Q&A, Help & Troubl] BarryH_GEG:
If a dev figures out how to get HMP working s/he most likely isn't going to be from this forum. ;) [MENTION=4167023]AndreiLux[/MENTION] is kind of a renowned kernel developer and has been following the big.LITTLE HMP saga from its first use on the SGS4 and he's active in Samsung forums. If whatever code is released with 5422 helps the cause he'll be all over it.
[Galaxy Note 10.1 (2014 Edition) Q&A, Help & Troubl] Duly.noted:
Thats good. Im unfamiliar with his work but ill be looking out for it. Im thinking about studying some rom and kernel design myself to see if I can't provide something to the forums eventually. As a hobby.
[Galaxy Note 10.1 (2014 Edition) Q&A, Help & Troubl] AndreiLux:
I don't own any 5420 device so I couldn't care less.
[Galaxy Note 10.1 (2014 Edition) Q&A, Help & Troubl] Duly.noted:
Dang thats brutal lol. Sure you dont want to try just for the challenge? It would be some pretty legit street cred.
[Galaxy Note 10.1 (2014 Edition) Q&A, Help & Troubl] AndreiLux:
Street cred doesn't buy me devices.
[Galaxy Note 10.1 (2014 Edition) Q&A, Help & Troubl] reubenskelly1992:
Haha. Did someone wake up on the wrong side of the bed today?
[Galaxy Note 10.1 (2014 Edition) Q&A, Help & Troubl] Stevethegreat:
All newer Samsung tablets and Note 3 use Exynos 5420 ... I think it can be arranged to make a pool of money where every 5420 owner can donate a small amount enough for you to buy an Exynos 5420 device (whatever you'd prefer).

We're clearly ripped off given that an almost identical chip would post better performance and battery just because samsung want to sell more S5s...

Can't that be a deal? (I mean to donate you a device, and for you look up this HMP mess?)
[Galaxy Note 10.1 (2014 Edition) Q&A, Help & Troubl] AndreiLux:
People tried that when the N3 was released. Matter of fact is that the international community is too small for such things and I wouldn't feel good about accepting it in the first place. Unlike others I prefer having only one "main" device I do my stuff on. Currently that's still the i9500.

The Odroid-XU2 and the Arndale Octa will get HMP. Once the 5422 comes out that will also undoubtedly have support for the 5420. Just wait another two months or so.
[Galaxy Note 10.1 (2014 Edition) Q&A, Help & Troubl] Stevethegreat:
Yeah I know, but I'm still not sure if a dev would translate that to a kernel for Samsung devices. I kinda lost hope that Samsung would enable HMP on her own accord, here's hoping that she would prove me wrong.

Anyway do as you please, obviously, but I have to point out that there's quite a larger community using Exynos 5420 than back in the day. Apart from note 3 we also have note 10.1 and note 12.2 users, as well as the tab pro users. I would think it would have been quite easier to pile up the necessary amount of money, after all the HMP stuff would most probably be translatable across kernels of all the Samsung devices using Exynos 5420...
[Galaxy Note 10.1 (2014 Edition) Q&A, Help & Troubl] AndreiLux:
The most popular N3 Exynos kernel has 450 users. The international community is horrible without Europe.

I'm the only kernel guy on the i9500 and I have only 2300 users.