yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Galaxy S 5 General] karmuh:
Does Knox somehow make the device harder to root and/or install custom ROMs/bootloaders? Or is voiding the warranty the only concern with Knox?

I ask, because I plan to get the S5 once it drops, but only doing so under the assumption I'll be able to root it and install custom ROMs and the likes. If Knox somehow makes that more difficult to do, I may just have to think about other options, I guess.
[Galaxy S 5 General] dandroid13:
As long as Samsung keeps their bootloaders unlocked on international versions, root will be easily achieved I guess. And no, Knox only changes a bit to tell you that you can't use it anymore (0x1).
[Galaxy S 5 General] karmuh:
If I were to get it, it would be the US AT&T version -- would that change anything, as far as rooting being easily achieved? Essentially, I'm just trying to get a sense on how easily/difficult the S5 will be to achieve root.
[Galaxy S 5 General] dandroid13:
I don't knot about US carriers, but they usually lock the bootloaders, so...
[Galaxy S 5 General] TemporaryTester:
Nope. My SGS4 is still on a pre-KNOX bootloader, even though I've used everything up to 4.4.2 TW, only switching to 4.4.2 AOSP after the leaked build of TW's issues reared their head.

I understand its value for enterprise users and to prevent warranty fraud, but it's absolutely useless to me.
[Galaxy S 5 General] qxps:
He is said root, not custom recoveries. Root was achieved on the S4 without affecting the knox counter. Whether it will be achieved on the S5 is yet to be seen.

The only concern with knox is the warranty. Although some of its functionality is also used to lock the bootloader in some carriers. As long as the root method does not involve modification of the bootloader, kernel or recovery, it may not trip the knox flag. Rooting may be achieved, but the S5 will have a locked bootloader on at&t and verizon and you wont be able install custom roms, kernels or recoveries on these variants. Unless someone finds a loophole. Like safestrap for roms, for example.

Not all US carriers lock the bootloader. The tmobile and sprint S4 bootloaders are unlocked, the only thing they have is the knox counter, which is just the same as the international lte version (i9505). Considering the tmobile S4 had an unlocked bootloader and was compatible with at&t lte and hspa network, it was the better purchase if you were not entering into a contract and wanted functional lte in the US compared to the i9505 which was not compatible. The same may or may not apply to the tmobile S5.
[Galaxy S 5 General] hamad138:
They new knox have a better sandbox than the previous one, have fun cracking it..
[Galaxy S 5 General] Rippley05:
Knox is retarded. Development is slowly dying on android phones due to things like Knox and carrier lock downs.

T mobile let's us do what we want, but they have to because their phones barely get a signal anywhere. Sprint isn't bad either, but I was with the from Hero to HTC One and never had either version of 4g. It just doesn't pay to be a cell phone user in the greedy United states
[Galaxy S 5 General] anl2304:
Sony is a phone I would look in to when next I am on the market.
[Galaxy S 5 General] md1008:
I understand the value of security from a business standpoint but I don't want it on my personal device. And I want updates that don't take a year. Definitely no Samsung phone for me. Nexus and Google play edition is where I am at for now
[Galaxy S 5 General] @rbiter:
What really sucks about Knox is if you trip it, you can't encrypt your phone anymore. That's bull****. I dont need enterprise security and even if my phone is rooted I still another layer of security besides lock screen. Warranty is mostly moot to me because I buy my phones unsubsidized and dont trust most manufacturer's warranty these days anyways.

sent from my sm-9005.
[Galaxy S 5 General] sdlopez83:
What is SONY and LG's stance on locking the bootloader? Yes i know it is the carreer but if the manufacturer doesn't care too much they will leave holes. I remember the MOTO Atrix was a disaster as MOTO locked it down (you Kolkin? you got kolked) and everyone went ballistic. It was unlocked 4 months after but by then people and devs moved on. Even if devs find an exploit, it will take away from the development.

Company's may move in this direction, but if they do our need/ market will become unsatisfied and that will leave a hole for another manufacturer or even OS in general. You can't stop the will of the people in a free market where realistically, they have to cater to us. We few do make a difference since we tell the followers whats hot. Via, social media, or reviews on blogs.
[Galaxy S 5 General] Firemedic:
My GS4 Dev edition was fully unlocked and I have had no problems rooting it and putting on custom roms. I will buy the S5 if it has a Dev edition. Otherwise I will stick with my GS4 until I am ready to move onto another brand.
[Galaxy S 5 General] kms108:
May be a google edition.
[Galaxy S 5 General] djcmn:
Nope.

Not just because of KNOX either. From what I saw, there is really not enough of an upgrade with this device to motivate me into upgrading. Fingerprint detection at the home key seems like the only interesting new feature.

As for KNOX Warranty Void, Samsung should make it right with the consumer and only void the warranty on the KNOX software in case of a 0X1, not the device hardware.

I have 2 S4 devices so I am set for a while.
[Galaxy S 5 General] Shohat:
Yes

Yes, i dont care about KNOX at all
[Galaxy S 5 General] qxps:
What?
[Galaxy S 5 General] ibcenu:
I would buy if they gave a damn option to shut it off. Root away and not worry about no dang warranty

Samsung..you know good as we do. Root does not harm your precious hardware. If anything I'm sure u learn from here how your phone should work!
[Galaxy S 5 General] st3chn0:
Agreed see no use of it to myself
[Galaxy S 5 General] hamer221:
Am not buying samsung anymore. Not until they remove knox and their policy. I want to have root in my phone and if I spend 600 euro in my mobile, I won't take the risk of loosing my warranty.
[Galaxy S 5 General] degast:
euro? euro? EURO?

Aren't we lucky now? Europe isn't that affected by Knox. Only of course when you overclock your device and fry the cpu, well yea, but then it's just your own fault.
[Galaxy S 5 General] dandroid13:
A lot of people complain just to complain, they don't have a reason, but it's cool to complain because "Samsung is the new Apple.". Whatever that means...
[Galaxy S 5 General] hamer221:
dude if you go with void knox to samsung service they will **** you up. You can't use warranty if you root your phone. I have seen 1 case already.
[Galaxy S 5 General] degast:
A friends samsung device gave burnt in pixels (cheap screen? I don't know) and he had his device rooted + custom ROM. He got a replacement anyway.
[Galaxy S 5 General] rebel1699:
Root does not void warranty. Tripping knox does. Root will not trip knox unless you do something really stupid. Still, I wont be buying one. AT&T will lock the bootloader just like with my S4. Not playing that game again.
[Galaxy S 5 General] :
Since the latest bootloader update on both Note 3 and S4 it is impossible to root without tripping Knox. You can be sure they will keep that up with the S5.
[Galaxy S 5 General] rebel1699:
Very incorrect. See here http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?p=51067706

Thats my method of achieving custom rooted 4.4.2 roms on the i337 with new nb1 bootloader. Does not trip knox. You need to study a bit more before stating things as fact. There are always ways around things. The question is, how many hoops do you want to jump through to get there.

My knox is firmly at 0x0. Rooted, custom rom via safestrap and some creative odin work.
[Galaxy S 5 General] :
That's only 1 of the S4 variants, you also can't state that it works for all the others. If Samsung has found a way to make sure that rooting trips Knox, they will definitely do it with the S5. Still, it is good that you have that chance.
[Galaxy S 5 General] rebel1699:
The note 3 has the same process in place. Verizon s4 is just waiting for thier 4.4.2 to accomplish the same. There is always a means to accomplish root. Personally, I suspect there is already a one click method for the new S4 bootloaders. But, it wont be released until all locked down variants have completed thier update. Nobody wants to give sammy the ability to block one of the variants. Not to mention all the work going on with kexec and bypasslkm. Now, that is where the fun is. ;)
[Galaxy S 5 General] :
I wasn't talking about the ability to root - 4.4.2 Note 3 can already be rooted with the new bootloader. The problem is that as of now there is no way that rooting can be done without tripping Knox - rooting and Knox aren't the same thing :)

But enough offtopic - Knox will definitely be there with S5 as Samsung themselves have said and it will definitely be more difficult or cumbersom to tinker with the S5 without tripping Knox and worrying about warranties.
[Galaxy S 5 General] newk9:
I own an S3 and was going to get the S5 but after hearing about knox I'll get something else. Not sure what yet.
[Galaxy S 5 General] nikzDHD:
Root De La Vega was one way of rooting without tripping KNOX however Samsung have patched this method on the new KitKat bootloaders on the Note 3. You can certainly root any KNOX locked phone but rooting will cause you to trip the KNOX warranty flag currently on the new KK BLs. Was looking into the Notes as my sis is getting one but seems at the moment anyway for the international version you can't root and keep knox at 0x0 without tripping the flag. I could be incorrect as I only briefly took a look someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Anyways on my S4 so far I'm still on the pre knox boot loader and can flash whatever I want. Will see once the S5 comes out what happens with the mod scene.
[Galaxy S 5 General] st3chn0:
Since Knox the mod scene for the note 3 is dead... 6 months and barely anything quite interesting
[Galaxy S 5 General] Simgo:
I've already ordered a s5 in blue :) bit now, every cell phone has been rooted, knox out or heer;) where there is a will and a way :) greeting from Switzerland :)
[Galaxy S 5 General] degast:
To be honest here, Knox isn't that much of a threat. It's more of a security for everyone.

Like my father; I gave him a computer and installed Ubuntu on it (he kept messing around with windows and problems arose all the time).

So I made him a user account with no permissions what so ever. He's now very happy with the computer and he can't screw it up, hell, he can't even install new apps on it. hehe.

Back to the topic though..

Knox is the fail-safe for Samsung, if you mess with the device's CPU/Kernel, you could end up breaking it (and honestly, Samsung shouldn't pay for that - that is on you!). But as time progresses, some Galaxy S5s will be bricked, some will be dropped, some will get submerged under water, some will be burned,.. and in the end a lot of developers will have created a stable and safe ROM to use, that won't brick your device (short or long term). Then what is the need for Knox, if your device doesn't break? Then Knox doesn't even matter.

That's why I like Europe regulations about warranty, hardware faults (not caused by software - sometimes you even have to be able to prove it) will be fixed by Samsung. On top of that I'm a good customer at the firm where I buy my smartphones (also the ones for my family and friends) and they will always help me, even if I bricked the device myself.

There will never be a security measure that won't be broken by developers and hackers.

EDIT: 60th post since octobre 2008! wow, super-active haha! I'm buying this Galaxy S5 and I'll probably start developing for it!
[Galaxy S 5 General] hamer221:
Dude samsung won't repair your mobile phone if you root your phone and trip knox counter. You can tell him about europe warranty and bull**** that they don't give a ****. And you won't take them to court so what can you do then? If you want Samsung to tell you how to use the phone thats perfect, but am not playing that game anymore.
[Galaxy S 5 General] degast:
I have done it before. The manager at the shop keeps his good customers because he always helps them out. I won't take Samsung to court (lol?), but if you complain enough the shop will eventually replace it (this was the case with me anyway).
[Galaxy S 5 General] hamer221:
yeah depends on the shop you go, you can be lucky or not. Anyways, its a risk that we shouldn't be taking considering the price we pay for the phone.
[Galaxy S 5 General] degast:
Yea, totally right, but it won't stop people from tinkering with the device. I feel this forum will get a lot of frustration when the device hits the market. But in a few months there'll be good ROMs and rooting methods.
[Galaxy S 5 General] OrrPenn18:
Rooting methods, sure, they will pop up anyway bypassing the counter.

ROMs, I doubt.

For a ROM, you would need a custom recovery or a Odin flash. Both methods trip Knox. So well, pretty much pointless if you don't wanna trip Knox.

The note 3 forums are lying in tatters. Plus, its highly sad that Samsung should take the 'Apple' way and lock everything down apart from the no- exynos-kernel-source assholery.
[Galaxy S 5 General] degast:
It's not about bypassing the counter, it's about not caring for the counter because ROMs become stable. I do agree, the locking down is bad.
[Galaxy S 5 General] sdlopez83:
Yes but rooting is not the same as unlocking the bootloader. Any phone can be rooted but unlocked is the issue if you want custom roms and kernels. Will Knox hinder this?

*see the bull**** Motorola atrix owners went through for 4 months.
[Galaxy S 5 General] degast:
Knox will definitely hinder it, but it's not impossible (I think).
[Galaxy S 5 General] dandroid13:
I don't get your point. Omega, Bobcat, Lidroid... all popular custom TW ROMs are there and also popular custom kernels like Faux and Lean.
[Galaxy S 5 General] OrrPenn18:
I just meant if you don't wanna risk the warranty flag and still flash as we used to back in the pre-Knox days, that wouldn't be possible as the device would come preloaded with the new bootloaders.

This goes against the open source stuff which well, Samsung has been doing it for years.

The device is top notch but not the thought process gone behind it.
[Galaxy S 5 General] dandroid13:
Sure, but we all knew it was coming someday since the GS2 Triangle Away days. The only difference is that now it's irreversible, but in most countries rooting already voids warranty anyway...
[Galaxy S 5 General] Ebaumann:
Wrong forum for this question I think. Thanks
[Galaxy S 5 General] PhrostB:
Same here.. I was planning on upgrading, since the S5 truly looks like a great phone.. but as a Linux guy.. I just can't get behind something that hurts the user's freedom so deliberately. But the real question is.. what would I switch to? As far as I'm aware, there are no other modern phones with physical buttons + SD card slot.

Actually this whole KNOX thing is quite reminscent of Microsoft trying to lock users out through SecureBoot certification... look it up if you're not familiar.
[Galaxy S 5 General] dandroid13:
The difference is that Knox burns an e-fuse and that's it, Knox won't work anymore but the phone will function fine even if rooted or running a custom ROM or kernel.
[Galaxy S 5 General] PhrostB:
I think I understand how Knox works more or less... I haven't decided whether or not I feel Knox is completely unacceptable for me or not. If a different phone existed that had the same features as the Galaxy.. but didn't have Knox, I would clearly go for it. Unfortunately, I'm not aware of any such phone. :eek:
[Galaxy S 5 General] dandroid13:
Sure but you should ask your local Samsung about voiding Knox and warranty. If you get a positive answer then buy a GS5. :p
[Galaxy S 5 General] kratumay:
Sorry to crash the party, but nah they still haven't in the New Bootloader MJ7 or over on the NOTE 3. I do agree that I don't really care about KNOX but I personally had to change 3 devices of NOTE 3 - due to the "Multitouch" issue before I could actually root my phone.

It took a few weeks if not months for people to discover that (multitouch) issue and if by then you'd have rooted your phone.. Guess what.. its a NO KNOX - NO WARRANTY rule they'd apply.

Since the NOTE 3 is my 4th Samsung phone and I've never had any issues with the phone itself I do see it to be a small part in my rooting decision.

If someone like HTC start getting phones (which they are) in line or better than the Samsung range i'd rather go buy that as long as they dont come up with screw the flashers policy.

But coming back to the point. The dev's haven't found a way around not tripping the knox as yet. i.e. about 6 months later?

Thats my 2 cents worth.

Cheers.
[Galaxy S 5 General] PhrostB:
I know.. but the principle is also a big part of the issue.
[Galaxy S 5 General] sdlopez83:
By no Knox no warranty, do you mean by your career or by Samsung? I always swap from career no questions are ever asked even with s3 flash counter tripped. Did it like 3 times as well.
[Galaxy S 5 General] st3chn0:
By that he means Samsung but most likely both are associated
[Galaxy S 5 General] sdlopez83:
I say that because I never sent a phone to the manufacturer but only to att. Att is always cool about swaps. They never check.
[Galaxy S 5 General] AnyRom:
price is not right, it's $929 in Australia (i thinks that 16gb version). i better wait few months, i have no doubt it will drop at least $100 or more.
[Galaxy S 5 General] Gorgtech:
Knox and the rather bad and heartless update policy was one reason for me to switch from my beloved GS3 to a pure Nexus 5 device ;) Once you go Nexus, you hardly want back. Sure, these devices may not be of the best build quality but the guaranteed longterm updates, easy to unlock / relock etc. makes them a a perfect toy for modders ;)
[Galaxy S 5 General] sdlopez83:
And don't have to worry about camera issues bc of Samsung not releasing camera source leaving is to rely on hacked drivers.
[Galaxy S 5 General] dandroid13:
I did and came back, Nexus isn't for me. Stock Android simply lacks features. For example, how can it be called a smartphone if it lacks a file manager? They force you to add an account to download an app that should've always been there. :eek:
[Galaxy S 5 General] sdlopez83:
Yeah but... Can't you go custom rom?
[Galaxy S 5 General] dandroid13:
Sure but... this is what I mean, the stock Nexus experience is way poorer than an OEM Android device. To get a Nexus to be like a full featured device you need to install dozens of apps (most of them paid) and rely on the cloud.
[Galaxy S 5 General] Gorgtech:
Stock Android lacks some features but at least it runs smooth as hell :D Well, it is true that you need to install some Apps but that´s not a problem for me. I use ES file explorer and never cared about the Stock Samsung file explorer.

Both worlds have their pros and cons. Samsung offers a very nice build quality, you can swap your battery and increase your internal storage. I own the 32GB Nexus 5 and still have > 10GB left since I´m not one of the guys who likes to carry his eg. Simpsons Collection on his smartphone ;)

I don´t play any games on this device either since I also own a Nexus 7 (2013) tab which is more comfortable to use :o
[Galaxy S 5 General] PhrostB:
Nexus is great and all.. I'd love one, but I need expandable memory.
[Galaxy S 5 General] dandroid13:
If the Nexus was sold through the Play Store here I'd get one for sure. But since it has the full retail price it doesn't make sense to spend ~$700 in a less than complete smartphone. With $1000 you get a GS5 which at least justifies the very high price with more features.

Enviado do meu Galaxy S4
[Galaxy S 5 General] sdlopez83:
Yeah but a lot of us have collected apps over the years. And many do not care for stock or bloat like twiz.

But yeah if it is unsubsidized no way am I spending that amount of coin.
[Galaxy S 5 General] st3chn0:
Es explorer no longer works properly on android 4.4.2 on the Note 3 it has had permission revoked to rw on ext sdcard and only way is to get around it by rooting and voiding warranty
[Galaxy S 5 General] BruceElliott:
What is Meant by "tripping" KNOX?

KNOX is a Samsung proprietary security system that is built into some models of some phones. I have also read that rooting such phones will "trip KNOX." The latter has me confused. What is meant by "tripping KNOX"? That the phone is destined to run in KNOX mode forever thereafter? Or does it simply mean that a flag is set somewhere (in hardware, apparently) to advise the factory repair people that one has rooted the phone and thus voided the warranty? Does something ugly permanently appear on the screen thereafter, like 0x1, that would make the screen look ugly?

These forums are tossing around the term "tripping KNOX" as though everyone should know what the term means. Could someone who really understands this and is not just guessing like I am please help me to understand in better detail?

I am specifically interested in the Galaxy S5 as regards this issue. I would like to be able to install root applications such as Titanium to freeze or uninstall bloatware. Also SystemPanel, ROM Manager, OS Monitor, Root Explorer, etc.

So, the main questions are:

(1) What is meant by the term "tripping KNOX"?

(2) What are the negative implications of "tripping KNOW"?

Thanks all,

Bruce
[Galaxy S 5 General] st3chn0:
Tripping knox is occurred by rooting or by doing anything to software running which is not intended to run as system and not signed by Samsung themselves. Eg. Custom roms, root, recovery or kernels that are third party

Negative implications are once knox is tripped you are no longer able to run the knox secure container software. Another problem some are facing is warranty some may argue even after rooting the warranty is valid however some say it's not. So no one knows tbqh.
[Galaxy S 5 General] BruceElliott:
Thank you; that is very helpful! Now that I understand that "tripping knox" means eliminating the possibility of running Knox in the future, that raises a couple more questions:

(1) As I understand it, Knox is an optional part of Samsung's security system for Android, mainly targeted for the business enterprise. The client portion running on the handset interacts with special security servers, incurs extra monthly charges if turned on, etc. Is this correct?

(2) As I mentioned above, I will probably be moving to the S5 from an original Galaxy S "Vibrant" (T-Mobile). (I know, I must have been abducted by aliens all these years, right? :) I tend to invest a lot and then stick with stuff for a long time, thus all these questions.) Back in the original Galaxy S days, viruses and malware were not a huge problem for smart phones. So now the question for the S5 is, without Knox, what alternatives exist for antivirus/malware protection? (I assume that virus/malware now IS a problem for smart phones.)

(3) I am not interested in fooling around with developer ROMs, modems, kernels, etc. as I did with the Galaxy S. I was forced to go through all of that back then because the file system was so slow, the GPS did not work, etc.

(4) Now, for the S5, all I am interested in is removing the bloatware so that (a) I use the processor cycles for the apps that I choose and not for the apps that Samsung/T-Mobile choose; and (b) I decrease the amount of information that "leaks" out of my phone and goes to the bloatware app servers.

(5) To accomplish #(4), I believe that I must do what I did before and install Titanium, SystemPanel, etc. Is that still correct, or is there some other way of doing this now that does not require root to install Superuser?

(6) Does anyone have any other suggestions for accomplishing what I am trying to do?

Thank you!

Bruce