yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Moto X General] mrvirginia:
according to the above, it appears it depends on the situation. it's possible that those reporting bricked devices previously after upgrading to 4.4.2, then downgrading to 4.4, then upgrading to 4.4.2 again may have been flashing the wrong thing. maybe it included a bootloader. there is always the potential for user error and someone flashing the absolute wrong things.

i would just warn people that it is possible to brick your device, not that it 100% positively will since there are now people reporting that you can not only downgrade from 4.4.2 but that you can even go back up to it via OTA

so far it seems that if you have an XT1053, it is possible to downgrade from 4.4.2 to 4.4 and upgrade via OTA back to 4.4.2 without bricking, sans bootloader and partition table (gpt.bin), when downgrading
[Moto X General] piccit:
Right. I have not seen a post where anyone actually had issues trying to do that. All the issues have come from people trying to downgrade to 4.2.2 and then take an OTA.

If the OTA you're trying to take is going to try to install the same bootloader that you already have, then that is not going to be an issue.
[Moto X General] eksasol:
and partition table (gpt.bin).
[Moto X General] mrvirginia:
updated. thanks
[Moto X General] :
Well...taking an ota after you downgrade android version may be like playing Russian roulette. LOL

Maybe you'll brick....maybe you won't. I still wouldn't recommend anyone try....unless they can afford a new phone. :)

Sent from my Moto X cellular telephone...
[Moto X General] flashallthetime:
OK I frigging close this thread soon, listen and listen closely, the ota will flash everything , you can not downgrade your bootloader on 30.b4 or b3 which is the new version that comes with 4.4.2. The only way to downgrade is with the system.img only, your boot loader remains on the new version. If you receive the ota and you will if your system is 4.4 and you flash it with the stock recovery, it will flash the new boot loader and partition table, the ota has no such safeties which is available by manually flashing it or using rsdlite. When the ota flashes it screws up the boot loader and you will suffer a hard brick, it doesn't matter which system your on 4.4 or 4.2.2 ,I have seen this with all ota's

Sent on my Gummy running Lenoto X
[Moto X General] flashallthetime:
100% f--king correct:thumbup:

If you people are not interested in listen, by all means hard brick your device. I will happily post you as an example of what should not be attempted

Sent on my Gummy running Lenoto X
[Moto X General] detesto:
Bootloader used confusion ... It's super effective!

I fear of getting noob-shamed, but I find this whole bootloader - OTA thing so confusing.

I have a XT1058 from Telcel (Mexico). Telcel has a really, REALLY bad update reputation, we only got the camera OTA and nothing else. My wife's Moto X is still sitting in 4.2. So I went and root and unlocked the bootloader on my X. I flashed 4.4 by flashing T-Mobile's modem files, and then flashing the ROM via custom recovery. I since then updated to the brazillian 4.4.2. All of this time, my bootloader has always been 30.71. Does the whole bootloader version only dangerous when taking the OTA?
[Moto X General] flashallthetime:
Yes , as the ota has no safeties , if you try manually flash or rsdlite the sbf firmware it will fail on gpt.bin flashing ,preventing over flashing the partition table and boot loader . the's are the 2 bin files the cause hard bricks when accepting an ota while having the same boot loader version already installed. Its hard for people to understand that the ota is meant to flash to a factory stock, untouched , unmodified moto x. Simple rule is, if you are unlocked, rooted or hacked rooted , don't accept the ota, flash the sbf firmware when available. I've been through 3 ota's and not once have I accepted an ota, I flash the sbf firmware and I haven't had a single issue, its that simple. People are just to impatient and as a result either hard brick or have issues

Sent on my Gummy running Lenoto X
[Moto X General] KentuckyHouse:
I just wanted to quote this. THIS is what the OP should say in all caps and bolded.

I'm not new to the Android flashing game, and I know where to get help when I need it, but the original post in this thread can be confusing as heck to a n00b. Copy this and make it the very first thing people see when they come into this thread, and I think you'll see a lot less questions.

Sent from my Developer Edition Moto X
[Moto X General] edthesped:
Okay, that changes everything, maybe... From what I understand one can safely, at least somewhat, move between versions as long as they are on an unlocked boot loader and do not take updates. e.g. I'm on an xt1060 Dev Ed running 4.4, now I want to go back to 4.2.2 (because it has better emojis in the texting app). I can pull the factory image and fastboot flash all files with the pertinent files failing, i.e. bootloader and gpt? Now when I decide emojis are silly and I like looking at the cool kit kat logo when I tap "Android Version" a bunch of times better, I can download the 4.4 factory image, or whatever is most current and fastboot flash all files and pertinent files will either fail or be upgraded depending on version? Is that correct?

You have to admit the information in this forum is clear as mud and there is much contradictory information floating around, I realize this is due to the locked vs unlocked bootloader issue. On the other hand if what I interpreted in the first paragraph is correct the best advice for those on unlocked bootloaders who want to minimize the risk of bricking would be to never accept an OTA upgrade and to always fastboot flash updates? If so then there should be two separate stickies, one for locked bootloaders and one for unlocked bootloaders so the mud and FUD can be kept to a minimum.

(sorry I initially wrote locked when it should have read unlocked)
[Moto X General] flashallthetime:
Yes, IMO its better to flash the sbf firmware manually, remove only the max getvar line in the text file and flash. However and I can't say this enough, do not run a miss matched boot loader and system. IMG , as an example

Do not run the new boot loader for 4.4.2 (30.b4 or b3) with 4.4 system.IMG, this will bring the ota download notification up and ,you're bound to accidentally accept it and flash it, it will flash and because your boot loader and partition table are already on 4.4.2 you will suffer a hard brick. It seems like people can't get their heads wrapped around the fact that the ota is designed for a 100 % unmodified moto x, just as it came out of the box, Moto assumes every moto x is running the stock os ,locked and unroofed. Moto x is no nexus device, HTC, Samsung, or any other device available, its a Motorola. It seems people have common sense not flashing a nexus ROM on the moto x, so why is it so hard to understand , taking a ota can cause problems while not bone stock

Sent on my Gummy running Lenoto X
[Moto X General] Groid:
I have the T-Mo X, unlocked, rooted, TWRP recovery and SuperSu on v4.4, never downgraded. I had installed Notification Toggle and AOSP Browser as system apps and installed Stickmount which seems to mess with the debuggerd file, thus changing my system. After reading many threads I think I can mfastboot flash the existing 4.4 system.img to put my system back to factory and flash the 4.4 recovery.img to allow taking the OTA to 4.4.2. Should this work or am I walking down a 'brick' road?
[Moto X General] flashallthetime:
Perfect:D:D people are finally grasping how to correctly take the ota, kodoos to you, applause please

Please when available, download the 4.4.2 sbf firmware for your carrier and delete the old one as it has no use because you can't downgrade after 4.4.2

Sent on my Gummy running Lenoto X
[Moto X General] edthesped:
Likewise, if one has a custom recovery the update will fail. For those that want to do this a custom recovery becomes a must do step in the process.
[Moto X General] flashallthetime:
Yes, stock recovery is a must prior to accepting the ota but its not required to flash the sbf firmware. this is why I prefer to update through flashing sbf firmware, you don't need to flash stock recovery nor do you need to flash the system.IMG and go through the hole process of setting up you phone and then download the ota. Flashing the latest sbf firmware avoids all the flashing back and is quicker. I haven't flashed the logo. bin no warning since I did it day 1, I removed that from the XML file , so I don't have to fastboot it again. People always attempt to do it the easy way, by far the easiest way and safest way is sbf firmware

Sent on my Gummy running Lenoto X
[Moto X General] edthesped:
So do you use RSDLite to flash? I believe this is where much confusion comes from. The best way to update the x is dependent on the state of the boot loader.
[Moto X General] flashallthetime:
I Always use rsdlite, even worked for 4.4.2, my typing is not the best, so for me it works best

Sent on my Gummy running Lenoto X
[Moto X General] detesto:
I try to find as much information I can before upgrading, but I never take OTA when rooted / unlocked on any device. But never have I been so confused as with the Moto X. I prefer to go the manually-flashing way, but I feared the day my bootloader would crap on me by having an old version. I guess I can let go of that fear for now... :confused:
[Moto X General] flashallthetime:
As long as you flash the complete sbf firmware, you won't have any issues

Sent on my Gummy running Lenoto X
[Moto X General] edthesped:
Do you mind sharing your xml modifications?

Agreed, I'm starting to think most of the confusion comes from the locked vs unlocked bootloader. My latest understanding is that the brick issue is due to ota updates not verifying versions when updating, whereas RSDLite and fastboot do. So upgrading and downgrading on an unlocked bootloader is relatively risk free as long as they are oerformed via fastboot or RSDLite and OTA updates are avoided or considered to be toxic.
[Moto X General] flashallthetime:
Yes yes yes, confusion due to locked and unlocked, confusion over modems, etc etc. My rule is

1 do not flash any ota

2 flash only my existing modem files

3 don't flash boot loader and partition table other than my specific carries

4 don't downgrade

It as easy as pie but folks want the latest firmware without thinking about the must do before bit and this is where 90 % of the problems happen. They also assume the moto x is a nexus device ,its not

Sent on my Gummy running Lenoto X
[Moto X General] :
Here's a simple thing to do if you have a rooted and modified phone. Freeze the ota app first thing...along with whatever else you like to freeze. Then there's no accidents.

The problem with my advise tho is that 95 percent of xda members are too impatient and can't wait for files to flash manually. No android update ever has changed my life or vastly improved my phones....so I have trouble understanding this impatience. :)

Sent from my Moto X cellular telephone...
[Moto X General] edthesped:
Agreed, that is why the bootloader on my VZ GS3 is still unlocked. In the same regard I have never felt the need to downgrade an official android update but like to know I have the option to do so if I want.
[Moto X General] Groid:
Thanks for your help and encouragement FLASHALLTHETIME. I flashed (with mfastboot) the system.img and recovery.img from the 4.4 image files and immediately after booting got the OTA announcement. The OTA downloaded and installed so I'm at 4.4.2 with a 30.B4 bootloader and kept my data. Now on to flashing TWRP and installing SuperSu for root. This really was easy.
[Moto X General] flashallthetime:
Good, easy breezy:thumbup:

Sent on my Gummy running Lenoto X
[Moto X General] NPOA556:
So if you flash system.img, there is no need to manually change anything like uninstalling Xposed, StickMount, etc.? What happens to those apps after you flash system.img? They must still be there, right? Does flashing system.img just undo everything that system-level apps like Xposed have changed?
[Moto X General] piccit:
Right

It depends on the app. The Xposed installer itself is a user app but the Xposed framework is gone. If you manually installed a system app (i.e. copied the apk into /system/app, then that would be completely gone.

You have to re-do any system level changes. So for Xposed, the Xposed app will still be there (b/c that's a user app) but you'll need to re-install the framework. For Xposed apps, those are all user apps, after re-installing the Xposed framework, they will all work again.
[Moto X General] Groid:
I don't have Xposed, but since I had changes in my system apps flashing the system.img replaces the entire system partition with the factory stock system image. So any changes are gone. The data remains unless you reset, flash, or erase the data partition. So I did have to reinstall the system level apps, but everything else was still there. I was very pleased how easy this was after I had read hundreds of posts and really tried to think things through. Make sure you use the correct .img files. I used the TMO_RETAIL_XT1053_4.4-13.11.1Q2.X-69-3_MR2_CFC.xml to extract the .img files for my TMO motomaker x on TMO.
[Moto X General] flashallthetime:
In my IMO its always better to flash system.img with mfastboot, otherwise you could be searching these confusing threads on how to get yourself out of a bootloop. All your data remains intact with flashing the system.img

Sent on my Gummy running Lenoto X
[Moto X General] detesto:
So just to end this whole doubt, what is the difference between bootloader versions? If 30.71 is the 4.2.2 bootloader, why could I install and run perfectly fine 4.4.2?
[Moto X General] flashallthetime:
Expand the question

Sent on my Gummy running Lenoto X
[Moto X General] detesto:
My Moto X came with 4.2.2 on bootloader 30.71, so I flashed TMO 4.4.2 while keeping my same bootloader version. What I wonder is what difference does the bootloader version make? I see that most ROMs running 4.4.2 list the bootloader version to 30.B4 and I'm running ROMs fine on 30.71.
[Moto X General] flashallthetime:
Do you have any security issues, setting fc ing? Moto changes the game with every update, so just beware what boot loader you're on and flash sbf firmware with caution

Sent on my Gummy running Lenoto X
[Moto X General] detesto:
Maybe I forgot to mention I did install the TMO 4.4 modem files because I got FC on security settings, but after that everything works great. Is there any "safe" way to upgrade just the bootloader (if necessary)?
[Moto X General] flashallthetime:
Manually flash the entire sbf firmware or using rsdlite

Sent on my Gummy running Lenoto X
[Moto X General] Steve-x:
I think you're fine running the older bootloader. We probably could all be on the original version - 30.70 if we never updated it. The trick is to only perform updates yourself(bootloader excluded) and never ever accept an OTA update. If you did want to accept an OTA then you'd need to flash back to the version of firmware that matched your current bootloader version. At this point it should be safe to accept the OTA and your bootloader version will be incremented to the newest/latest version.

In the Americas the table looks like this:

30.70 - 4.2.2 (original Moto X release)

30.71 - 4.2.2 OTA with camera and audio fix

30.B2 - 4.4 (kitkat)

30.B4 - 4.4.2 updated kitkat
[Moto X General] bighleo114312:
Ok so sorry for the nob questuon but i have a telcel 1058 here in México i have just flashed the GB 4.4.2 But im having issues with security ootion it Fc. I wanna go to tmo 4.4 i read in a section that it would fix the issue. Bit how can i if i already have the GB bootloader?

Enviado desde mi XT1052 mediante Tapatalk
[Moto X General] :
You can go back. BUT ...if you take an OTA after....you could brick.

That means you'll need to wait until you phone models 4.4.2 files are out in a flashable form to flash manually.

Anyone correct me if I'm wrong. :)

Sent from my Moto X cellular telephone...
[Moto X General] flashallthetime:
Well patience is not in your vocabulary, like the above poster said, you'll just have to learn some patience now and what for your carrier specific sbf firmware to maybe show up. You're lucky you can even get a data signal. You can't go back to an early firmware without playing Russian roulette with your phone

Sent on my Gummy running Lenoto X
[Moto X General] :
Someone should make a thread about this stuff. LOL. ;)

Sent from my Moto X cellular telephone...
[Moto X General] flashallthetime:
Well had you read the op you would have known that if you have any issues with the new 4.4.2 firmware , YOU CANT GO BACK , pretty pain to understand, it also warns you that make sure you run your specific carriers sbf firmware, spoon feeding people is no longer in my vocabulary as of 3 days ago.

Sorry but I can not help you and not willing to help anyone who hasn't read the op.

Not angry at you but I don't have the time nor the patience to deal with issues like this anymore. Sorry you made your bed , now you can sleep in it too

Not making anymore warning threads, people just don't read

Sent on my Gummy running Lenoto X
[Moto X General] :
That was humor....believe me...I don't need help with anything. ;)

And when I do.....I'm a pretty good reader, and also....Google can answer anything.

I realize you're frustrated ....and I know why. I'd stop helping too....you've laid it all out and it seems a large amount can't or won't read it.

I'm not your enemy....I'm actually on your side. I'm done answering the same questions over and over. At best I may help point them to threads already made about whatever subject and they can read....or just ask someone else to hand them the information on a shiny spoon. LOL

Stop torturing yourself and at best just start linking to threads. I've seen you explain the whole ota issue stuff 100 times. Kudos on your patience .....I couldn't put up with it. LOL. ;)

Sent from my Moto X cellular telephone...
[Moto X General] flashallthetime:
I saw I quoted you by mistake, all do to frustration, I don't really know what else can be done. Any suggestions?

Sent on my Gummy running Lenoto X
[Moto X General] :
Just help with new issues....and the others who genuinely seem to have tried to read and solve their problem ....that's my new policy. LOL. The worst is the "hi, I just bought a Moto x.....can I root and how?" questions.....they don't even read a thing....log in and post. Lol

If I see one more thread started about the ota or downgrading...I may need to take a long xda vacation. ;)

Just wait til at&t and Verizon get their updates. Should be a flood of entertaining posts and threads. LOL. Luckily I know very little about locked bootloader rooting and flashing issues. :)

Sent from my Moto X cellular telephone...

---------- Post added at 04:24 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:22 PM ----------

What I'm saying is.....playing with phones takes some knowledge. Reading searching and learning build the knowledge. Anyone unwilling to do their homework ...especially when someone suggests they do.. only to get called a jerk for it......

Well, let them brick. Lol

Sent from my Moto X cellular telephone...
[Moto X General] shane1:
Take a break your getting burned out.
[Moto X General] flashallthetime:
OK started 2 more threads, 1 in q&a , 1 in general just as a warning

Sent on my Gummy running Lenoto X
[Moto X General] romut:
Hi,

4.4.2 French firmware is 30.B3 bootloader. And flashing it, broke my radio. Now trying to flash Rogers.
[Moto X General] MaKTaiL:
Just flash the stock modem for your phone on top of the firmware and it will work again, Jesus. You made it sound like it was the end of the world.

Enviado de meu XT1058 usando Tapatalk
[Moto X General] flashallthetime:
It is the end of the world for some folks, that's why it's written like that, folks have flashed the 4.4.2 sbf firmware from other carriers and have no radio afterwards, your dead in the water because the older modem will not function in most cases, so my warning remains as it stands

Sent on my Gummy running Lenoto X
[Moto X General] grad061980:
My 4.4.2 sbf firmware has been released (U.S. Cellular). I'm on 4.4, I'm locked (my carrier allows my phone to be unlocked), I have root through SlapMyMoto.5c & write protection removed through MotoWpNoMo. Is it possible to keep my bootloader on 4.4 & just flash the rest of the files in my firmware for 4.4.2? It would be nice to be able to move back to 4.4. I'd like to keep root & write protection without unlocking, but if absolutely necessary I'm not against unlocking.
[Moto X General] flashallthetime:
Yes you can run the 4.4.2 system on the 4.4 boot loader, maintaining root with slapmymoto maybe a different story

Sent on my Gummy running Lenoto X
[Moto X General] bongostl:
I have an unbranded xt1053. Should I use a Tmobile sbf? Something else? I'm on net10/att bands, if that makes a difference
[Moto X General] flashallthetime:
Use the T-Mobile sbf but use the at&t modems if like you said, net 10 has the same frequencies as at&t

T-Mobile system has no bloatware

Sent on my Gummy running Lenoto X
[Moto X General] _litz:
This is obviously several days old (like 2 weeks) ... but I just wanted to note, that if you have the SBF zip files for older versions, and an unknown motoboot.img, the MD5 value is right there in the xml file.

Just check and see what it matches to.
[Moto X General] mastarifla:
Stick with the modem in the T-mobile SBF, after using both AT&T and T-Mobile sims, I found that there is no benefit/reason to switch to the AT&T radio, especially since T-Mobile releases their updates earlier.
[Moto X General] Jonatasmaxi:
I am on 4.4.2 on Brazil , I Have bootloader unlocked and the version is 30.B4 , can I go back to the 4.2.2 after cam update or not ? The Battery life is really bad on this rom :/
[Moto X General] flashallthetime:
Absolutely no, your stuck on 4.4.2. Read my op

Sent on my Gummy running Lenoto X
[Moto X General] edthesped:
What files should not be installed to do this?
[Moto X General] flashallthetime:
System.img, boot.img , non-hlos.bin and fsg.mbn

Sent on my Gummy running Lenoto X
[Moto X General] bongostl:
Anyone have a copy of the 4.4.2 t-mobile SBF?? I can't find it anywhere!

I
[Moto X General] mschumacher69:
I don't think it's publicly available yet...
[Moto X General] JoeSchmoe007:
What bootloader version for 4.4 on 1053?

Original post doesn't have this information - it only covers 4.2.2 and 4.4.2
[Moto X General] catawalks:
What is the different between boot.img and motoboot.img? From what I'm piecing together, the boot.img is the kernel and the the motoboot.img is the bootloader? Is it possible to flash the 4.4.2 XT1060 kernel without updating the bootloader on a locked device?
[Moto X General] flashallthetime:
In wouldn't attempt it but I have no idea if it will work , the boot.img is the kernel, motoboot is the bootloader

Sent on my Gummy running Lenoto X
[Moto X General] catawalks:
Thanks for the info, and I'll take that advice for now. Until I get fed up with Eclipse and want to attempt the jump to SlimKat again. I have the 4.2.2 post-camera bootloader with the 4.4 kernel running a 4.4.2 based ROM. Needless to say, there are tons of issue.:)
[Moto X General] flashallthetime:
Yah you will , you need the 4.4 modem it should help

Sent on my Gummy running Lenoto X
[Moto X General] mschumacher69:
It's available here now:

http://sbf.droid-developers.org/phone.php?device=0
[Moto X General] Cozume:
On XT1060 (Verizon) running 4.4 bootloader is 30.B2. I believe it is the same for all North American models.
[Moto X General] :
Unbelievable ain't it? LOL. I'm hoping the nexus 5 crowd may have a few less uneducated types. ;) Guess I'll find out.

Sent from my Moto X cellular telephone...
[Moto X General] flashallthetime:
Look at the op its deleted thanks to a member who is just an i-iot

Sent on my Gummy running Lenoto X
[Moto X General] mschumacher69:
I think there's a mis-communication over here, the way I read it, [MENTION=5696612]Cozume[/MENTION] was just asking for your thread to be made sticky...
[Moto X General] :
Yes, I know who. Lol

Sent from my Moto X cellular telephone...