yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Galaxy Note 3 General] jjnhl68:
Also ppl have flashed with tripping their knox!!!

And I should loose my warranty because of that???

See my point!!! No need for bloat, ok?

It was when i have bought it!!! For 6 months my phone was 3 times in service for repairs under warranty (microphone, speaker, display defects)

We all know about weak points of S4, we are using them, aren't we?

I was on 4.2.2 in time of buying

As I already said, in summer 2013. you couldn't know Samsung's intentions, ok?
[Galaxy Note 3 General] Skander1998:
On any phone rooting or tampering with your phone voids your warranty no questions asked.

On every root thread the first thing is a warning telling you your warranty is now void.

Your malicious intentions to break the rules of your warranty and fake it to get free servicing is now not possible hence the whining.

PS: flashing stock firmware will never void your warranty unless it has an older bootloader version (security risk)
[Galaxy Note 3 General] Journyman16:
Personally I mostly agree with the OP. I actually posted a couple of posts in here detailing my email to Samsung Australia and responses and they have vanished - no explanation.

I think the argument that, 'it is clear it has Knox so don't whine about it' is specious and ignores the fact there are 5.4 million members on XDA, most of whom would take exception to being told they can't mod their phones.

I have rooted and not lost Knox, but I also would like more access to my phones without voiding warranty. There are reasons. I want root because the apps I prefer to use require it. Titanium and Greenify are very handy to have and both require root.

I want a custom recovery because a Nandroid backup is the only way I know of to back up a phone that includes all screens, all screen layouts and widgets and can put your phone back just like you had it without having to sit for hours recreating the layout. I backup my calls, SMS, contacts and apps, but the restore is painful. A nandroid makes it simple and you can't do it in stock recovery.

I have no complaints at present about the kernel, but I had a lot of pleasure with my S3 playing with different ROM's using Siyah or GoogyMax - when I have a few months on my Note 3 I will venture down that path, but electronics follow the bathtup curve so I'd like to make sure I'm on the bottom of the bath before I risk warranty.

As I said to Samsung, they appear to have made a choice to follow the Apple line, but more extreme, (you can jailbreak an Apple and return it to stock for warranty purposes) most likely in the hope of becoming the next Blackberry. (i.e. Corporate standard phone) but I think they would have been far better to NOT annoy their current customers who are mostly private individuals and bring out a different but similar phone for Corporates. (I make the assumption about the type of users because I can't recall seeing anyone in the S3, Note, S4 Zoom or Note 3 forums with problems to do with Enterprise sysapps, Enterprise setups, or even Exchange services - to me that suggests very few users are using them)
[Galaxy Note 3 General] frostmore:
i cannot agree with you more.

its all about consumer rights and samdung has no rights to force enterprise solutions on private individuals who have no use for NSA grade security.

however,we have samdung fanboys here who keep defending corporate right more than consumer rights...even going as far to judge who deserve warranty or not.

The logic of not being able to downgrade to a older bootloader and not tripping knox is absolute bullcrap.afterall,it is samdung's official ROM and flashing it trips knox and samdung claims you are trying to be funny with their devices(yeah,that's right,you pay top dollars for their phones and it does not belong to you.PERIOD),so what does that tell you?

samdung going the way of apple and trying to be a corporate phone ala blackberry????

Bi*ch please, blackberry was the top corporate device coz its secured as hell.but jus look at how many ppl actually want to use a blackberry to take pictures,listen to music,surf the net,play games on it or hell even show it to frds they have a new model.

samdung,you have the best hardware in the market,i'll give you that.but your TW sucks,loaded with bloatware and is at best irritable when compared with any custom rom and laughable when compare with CM.

with knox,you can have it.no more samdung's knox-pox time for me to switch to something more friendly.
[Galaxy Note 3 General] AllanJ60:
I do not know why everyone is *****ing about KNOX, I had a look at it after reading the OP's post, from what I can see, and I might be wrong, BUT you actually need to INSTALL it first, otherwise it it just sits there doing nothing. do not like it or want to use it, then DO NOT INSTALL IT, or just disable the KNOX install file, SIMPLE.
[Galaxy Note 3 General] lilstevie:
This is really uncalled for, it has ALWAYS been the case that if you root your phone, you lose your warranty. In this case samsung track it by flipping a bit, so they know when you have voided the warranty, many other devices handle this in the form of bootloader unlocks. Once you unlock a bootloader on other devices the process is recorded, purely to void your warranty. This is nothing new, perhaps attaching the name KNOX to it has given you the idea that it is corporate security etc. If it were simply called "Warranty void bit" it would be no more or less related to knox (it just happens that knox shares some of the security mechanisms with how the bit is controlled).

And while we are talking about consumer rights. As the manufacturer of a product it is their right to refuse warranty due to tampering with the software. Maybe with the warranty void bit they can save a few bucks in warranty fraud from people who break their devices with root. As for "going as far to judge who deserve warranty or not" I've already stated that it has always been the case that if you tamper with the software your device warranty is void. Hell, Samsung have had some of the most lax security policies over their devices for the past few years with regards to tracking tampering. Next thing you know you will be complaining that unlocking the bootloader on your sony device is irreversible, or that unlocking your HTC device leaves traces even after relock.
[Galaxy Note 3 General] frostmore:
Voluntarily voiding your warranty is one thing,unilaterally voiding warranty for trying to downgrade to an earlier version of rom is considered what again?

no one says manufacturer rights shouldn't be protected.but what samdung is doing here is voiding warranty based on the knox bit.unilateral refusing warranty coz knox bit is tripped.and consumer should have the right of full access to their phone.not some two bit restricted access based on samdung's specfications.

rooting so that we can use apps like TB or Greenify is what i called reasonable.Rooting so that you can overclock the cpu and then crying for warranty when its burnt is what i called being a fraud.and most of us want root is mainly due to the former and not latter.so why should consumer be penalized for wanting full admin access to their phones?

i have no qualms about sony or htc's open door policy when it comes to voiding your warranty.at least they are open about it and giving you a choice to do it and also allowing you to have an unlocked bootloader.with samdung,they are like "oh we are ok with rooting,but hey we keep the bootloader locked,so no downgrade,no warranty and sucks to be you".

Yeah,consumer rights my baby smooth behind.

and dun worry too much about being called a samdung fanboy.that wasn't directed at you,rather a certain individual who has been championing samdung's knox warranty void (and their corporate interests)with arguments like security risk,malicious intentions to break the rules of your warranty and the mother of all bullcrap "flashing stock firmware will never void your warranty unless it has an older bootloader version (security risk)".
[Galaxy Note 3 General] lilstevie:
And compared to some devices that don't even let you downgrade at all, whether you want to void your warranty or not are any different because?

Okay, first of all, using terms like "samdung" is just making you sound like a petulant child. It really does not help your case at all. Secondly, you are contradicting yourself in one swoop here, saying that they should be able to protect their rights, but they shouldn't have a mechanism to be able to protect their rights.

Please tell me what the difference is. Sure I get why you want to use Greenify, or TB, but tell me how from the perspective of the manufacturer how they can tell the difference on a broken phone. Why should the OEM have to pay for all those devices bricked through stupid actions of users with root access (and it is more common than you think) for the benefit of the few that will not destroy their device in the process.

Samsungs policy towards warranty is your device is excluded through the act of modification, that is to hardware or software. Sony and HTC have a similar policy rooting, in fact I don't think I have seen any device on the market where the warranty is maintained on rooting. Please note here, I'm not saying that people haven't gotten their devices repaired after rooting. I'm simply noting the act of rooting in most territories around the world constitutes breach of terms for the warranty and therefore makes that null and void.

Um, no. Samsung are like "we are okay with everything, but note that modification of the software on your device constitutes voiding your warranty". Unless you have a carrier variant like an AT&T device or Verizon device the bootloader is unlocked, as in, it was never locked down in the first place, you can open up heimdall or odin with the device connected in download mode, and flash it to your hearts content. Downgrading is a tricky situation. Samsung are well within their rights, and in some cases required to as per IP licensing to keep the boot environment secure.

You mean consumer rights that people have been abusing for years? :)

I don't worry :) I'm no fanboy of any device. I am however one that is a firm supporter that if people hadn't been abusing the warranty procedures that these sorts of measures would never have been implemented.
[Galaxy Note 3 General] anthon:
If I have administrator rights in my computer why I can't have the same in my phone?

Does being an administrator in your windows desktop computer void your warranty?

Why I can't unninstal all the apps that I don't use?
[Galaxy Note 3 General] TroozersRouge:
Ha ha, Samdung!! Like Samsung but like dung. Aww man, did you come up with yourself? That is brilliant
[Galaxy Note 3 General] Journyman16:
*grins* Yep, you are right... you're wrong. It isn't the Knox software people are upset about, it is the Knox counter that is built in. It is set at 0x0 and if you do anything with your phone except take Samsung OTA updates, which have been tightened even further once they realised the Devs had found a way around their little booby trap, you trigger a change of state in that counter to 0x1.

It is supposed to be irreversible and you can trigger it by doing things Android users have been doing since Android came out. A good number of what are now standard apps require root access and providing that will trigger Knox. As pointed out, if you decide you don't like a particular OTA update (say to KitKat) and try to go back to a previous version (say the one your phone came with) you trigger Knox.

And Samsung is voiding warranties because Knox is triggered. Blanket voiding as far as can be determined. Doesn't matter if there's a hardware issue (say the charge circuit stopped) they will void because that trigger is at 0x1.
[Galaxy Note 3 General] o0o.paw:
The issue I have with the knox trigger is that it voids your warranty period.

I know that Sony provides a tool to unlock their bootloader and warns it voids the warranty. They have also stated that if a hardware fault is not due to unlocking / rooting they will honour the warranty.

From what I understand there is no clear indication from Samsung that they will do the same. I think that if they did this knox thing would not be such an issue.

By discouraging people from rooting they can accumulate more user data to share with the NSA. Want more control over your device and what info and access is available to your apps you often need root. Maybe this is just another conspiracy theory but only 12 to 18 months ago you would have been called a conspiracy theorist if you said that the US recorded everything you do on your phone your PC or the net, now it's all in the open and people don't seem to bothered at all.

Sigh

Someone mentioned you have to install Knox, I am not sure that is 100% accurate as their are Knox processes running even without it installed?
[Galaxy Note 3 General] mobilexpert:
Most of the Samsung line in my house is one LED TV, and one older LCD TV,

They are simply not capable (YET) to make a normal mobile phone/device. All is semi-finished product (YET).

So, yelling at them ... is like yelling at the moon at night :D

Or ... yelling at the kids, which makes noise on the street - they don't know why are you yelling at all - all is "normal" for them :D

b.r.

Alex
[Galaxy Note 3 General] jrv116psu:
Missing the point - I'm pretty sure this is illegal

First of all, every one of you who is complaining that knox is a problem because it voids your warranty is TOTALLY MISSING THE POINT. Why? because by modifying your phone you ARE voiding the warranty, knox or otherwise. Samsung warrants the phone with its original operating system only. If they choose to say what firmware your phone is covered with, THEY LEGALLY CAN.

You are also totally misunderstanding the purpose of knox.. Ok, yes knox can tell them if you rooted your phone, but it's really nothing to do with warranties.. It's to do with the Enterprise phone market that deals with Mobile Device Management in the corporate world. In a BYOD environment, they need a way of ensuring that if you download applications on your phone that they cant steal corporate data. It's to do with the separation of Corporate and Personal data. It's just like the sandbox environments provided by good technologies and Mobile Iron.

Now, where I'm pretty sure Samsung did something illegal was physically harming the phone by rooting / reflashing it. Why? well a number of years ago there was a lawsuit based on an individuals right to alter a purchase after making it. (other users if you recall the specific case or details please chime in) .. the courts sided with the individual and said a company cannot prevent a user from altering the device.. Yes, they can void the warranty but they cant prevent you.. My guess is that by rendering knox PHYSICALLY BROKEN, they are violating this prior case law. In other words, because it requires a physical repair to the system board to re-enable knox, and this change(the breaking of knox) is being performed by the manufacturer without the owners consent, that they've caused a breach here.

But the onerousness of knox has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH WARRANTIES.... both rooting and reflashing your phone have ALREADY voided the warranty... so having knox is moot. it merely makes it easier for them to identify .. If you want to be annoyed, be annoyed that they are illegally causing irreversible damage to the phone you purchased without your permission that breaks features that cannot be restored.
[Galaxy Note 3 General] Dral29:
Dont forget or plz know, depending on your knowledge of this, although your problem has nothing to do with software manual intervention. You will be deny warranty!!! Just because you rooted.

Root dont brick phones. It open up the doors for it depending on the user. But it don't brick.

Cyanogen is a well known team of high devs. So wanting to experience a google experience and install they build, lets say for a while... what is the chance to mess the hardware some how? Is it possible?

Now even without rooting or modifying anything some phones come defective or with time come defective...

Please consider your opinion again after reading this and see the contradiction here with wanting to deny warranty for lets say hardware poblems.
[Galaxy Note 3 General] p4j1:
This ^^

I don't see what the fuss is about Samsung & KNOX, it's clearly stated everywhere that any form of rooting should be done at your own risk and will void warranty. As you said though, people are getting pressed because Samsung have now come up with a way to find out if someone has rooted. To be honest it's something other manufacturers will slowly incorporate into their devices one way or another, be sure of it. If you are going to root your phone and open up the possibility to modify the hardware to that of what Samsung or any other manufacturer have set it at only to go back to them and say something is wrong with the hardware I'd want to know myself if you did do something that could have caused that.

---------- Post added at 10:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:52 PM ----------

"Now, where I'm pretty sure Samsung did something illegal was physically harming the phone by rooting / reflashing it."

I might be missing the point here but what the hell are you talking about? Tripping the KNOX counter doesn't damage the hardware, it acts as a flag that prevents people from rooting the device in a possible attempt to modify the hardware settings.
[Galaxy Note 3 General] Andrewtst:
Stop complaining if you plain to alter the phone, company had right to void the warranty once you root the phone and customise it.

Why company need to warrant you as you not using what is provided and those customization had risk on it as firstly those system location is not means to touch. After root, you can even modified the hardware speed, in such situation, it may damage by owner itself.
[Galaxy Note 3 General] s1m4an:
From my experience, KNOX wasn't advertised at all, there's no mention of it on the box or in the manual that came with my phone. Neither is the regional lock.

What pisses me off is the way Samsung sneaked those "features" in. I clearly did not sign up for those features, and Samsung implied them on me anyway. And treating the KNOX counter as a way to void your warranty is a stretch, since it's not what it's purpose is, but it's being abused by Samsung service partners.

It's still not clear how KNOX works, if it really is an eFuse on the Note3 then by tripping it it does damage your hardware, and you cannot use KNOX containers on that device anymore.

Seeing how the other flagship devices got an update that enabled KNOX they probably do not have an eFuse but some other way to enforce KNOX.
[Galaxy Note 3 General] p4j1:
Tbh all you've done is explain the roots of benefits, as for backing up data all you've done is stated the easiest way via root. Sure other methods take longer but that's beyond the point.

As for what you do when you root, how can you justify what a user will and will not do? Some will overclock the hardware, some won't. Either way by rooting you exploit the possibility of doing so.

Bottom line is people shouldn't ***** about voiding their warranty when they know exactly what they're doing by rooting the phone in the first place. If you don't like the way Samsung is without root then as you say, go for another brand, but I'm pretty sure every other company will follow in the same steps. Samsung clearly state once you trip the counter you are risking the security of your device, all which falls under KNOX and their policy. Enough of the corporate malarkey.
[Galaxy Note 3 General] s1m4an:
Again, the issue isn't what Samsung has done by introducing KNOX, it's the way it's done.

Samsung is forcing KNOX on its users whether you like it or not, whether you use it or not.

I for one cannot stand the idea that once you install it, there's no way to turn it off, it sits in the notification bar at all times.
[Galaxy Note 3 General] Xproplayer:
For all the people like me who think, my voice won't matter, do it anyways. You have nothing to lose.
[Galaxy Note 3 General] Skander1998:
Uninstall the app (allowed) or go to knox inside container, menu button - > knox setting - > disable quick toggle)

And stop whining - Knox is a feature on the device, and it's there to stay, don't like it disable it (the container).

The Knox flag is not something you can disable, don't like it don't buy the product.
[Galaxy Note 3 General] stoney73:
More whining muppets who can't read.
[Galaxy Note 3 General] jrv116psu:
It absolutely damages the hardware.. if they're using an efuse and tripping the efuse because you rooted or flashed your device, then they have made a physical change (not made by you - made by their bootloader) that has irrevocably written to the efuse. This is irrelevant in terms of rooting and reflashing as it doesnt prohibit either... it just marks you've done it and they have every right to deny you warranty for it..

my issue is that even if you restore to stock, you still dont have a working knox system anymore. So you basically cant participate in knox applications even if your enviornment is sane and sanitary (unrooted stock unmodified..) you cant participate because the efuse is tripped..

Yes I agree the problem here is the way it was implemented... not that it was implemented. To me, if you restore to stock and are not rooted, then you should be able to use your phone in its original form. I really do think that burning an efuse is probably actually illegal- I think the eff might be interested in such details but I dont want to write to them until I fully understand what specifically the warranty bit is (efuse or not) and what the prior caselaw was..
[Galaxy Note 3 General] s1m4an:
Still, we're coming back to the source of the problem, had I known that KNOX was enforced I would have stayed away from the device.

This whole security "feature" makes sense in a corporate environment, but for the end user, not so much.
[Galaxy Note 3 General] p4j1:
Sorry have you got proof that tripping the eFuse damages the phone? It's merely a flag counter that trips to allow Samsung to know if you've rooted the phone.

Why would you want to go back to stock rom and expect Samsung to honour your warranty when YOU the end user have rooted the device. Even if you haven't messed around with anything with root it's the mere fact you've opened the opportunity of having done so. They're not just gonna take your word for it if you tell them you didn't modify the hardware.

It's also been stated many times tripping KNOX flag basically means you have no access to the benefits KNOX has to bring.
[Galaxy Note 3 General] s1m4an:
Modifying hardware by rooting? What?

Actually that's exactly what the eFuse is doing... By self destructing it's crippling the phone to disable the feature permanently.

I'd have no problem if it were merely a counter to disable KNOX features whether you want to use them or not, I wouldn't have a problem with it.

But sneaking it in as a way to void your warranty if you gain root privileges is a whole different story.
[Galaxy Note 3 General] pitastrudl:
this 1+

Sent from my GT-I9505
[Galaxy Note 3 General] Flyer.michael:
Hmm so mostly non Europeans here, that have to worry

In Europe, denying warranty because of unrelated stuff to the actual damage is not possible.

Like a broken display, led, USB...

Some may try to argue it's void...Knox 0x1 blabla...to save money, time, the hassle... but everyone knows it's not legal. And people won't be mad at the shop or the salesman but Samsung

Knox voids warranty in Europe only to stuff that could be related... erased imei, efs, wrong partitioning, or just a user who can't get his phone running after a flash went wrong

Customers should know this, too.

Not knowing is always bad, in all areas

That's why most stuff in Europe is sometimes double the price than US or Asia

I remember my Dell XPS dual gpu, xtreme Intel bluesy burner 5 years ago ordered in USA payed 2500 instead of 5000 euros in Germany.

And Europeans have more money to spend... Some long term unemployed people have even more money than some working class Americans... sad but true... Having 2 or 3 jobs here is something unheard of

But we have to pay often the price