yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Nexus 5 Accessories] jeffsf:
I'm definitely curious as to where this will go.

I'm especially interested to see what might be a good arrangement when the gap is ~2mm or so, what you would have with a case on. I think the Google charger was 2-3 mm of glass on top, but I've since returned it so I can't comment.

If I understood one of the earlier posts (and remember my E&M theory) the permeability of the magnets was close to one, so that, within the couple of mm differences, the magnet size shouldn't dramatically impact the coupling of the two "power" coils. Is that a reasonable guess?
[Nexus 5 Accessories] Craiq:
The google arrangement would be the best for a case. I also did some good looking simulations for an arrangement with two 6x4x2mm magnets, but I'm not sure on the impact to the coil, because of it's max size of 6x9x2.5. The exact arrangement google did with about 9x4x4.5 is really high to add to a normal Qi charger...

What you guess about the impact should only be one half. The other half is that you need energy to generate the magnetic field against the magnetic field of the magnets. And that's really hard with so strong magnets.
[Nexus 5 Accessories] atze09:
Hello Craiq,

is it possible to get the 3d data from your superb car mount adapter?

My brother will get his makibox the next weeks and this would be the perfect thing for the first 3d print.

I really like your work!

Vielleicht kannst du ja per pm kontakt mit mir aufnehmen.

Hab mir auch vorgenommen mir eine qi handyhalterungs fürs auto zu basteln;)

Grüße,

Dominik
[Nexus 5 Accessories] Ano59:
I almost finished my car mount. I used a crazy amount of time because I have few skills and tools but it's finally near the end. :D It's a total mess inside the charger (nothing that should alter wireless charging much, though, only plastic and glue everywhere...), one of the dirtiest things I managed to make, but outside it should look neat, pull force is great (but easy to overcome manually) and charging works (I didn't try it in a car ATM though). ;)

I'm only waiting for the plasti-dip final coats and for time to write a walkthrough, then I'll post it here (along with a topic about magnets mod in Nexus 5).
[Nexus 5 Accessories] Craiq:
This printer looks damn great for this price!

When my winter holidays won't be to expensive I'll get one instant ^^

what arrangement for the magnets do you use now? with a magnet or the metal plate inside the N5?
[Nexus 5 Accessories] Ano59:
Inside Nexus 5 : 4 x (1/4")x(1/32") instead of metal plates

Glued to the charger : 4 x (3/8")x(1/8") (1/8" depth is perfect for our charger, 3/8" diameter is good too but you have almost no margin for placing them so it has to be done carefully)

Every magnet is N52.

I used inches because the magnets I ordered are sized in inches.
[Nexus 5 Accessories] Craiq:
what's with the google qi charger you dissembled? do you use it with the bumper?

3mm seems to be really high and strong. How fast do your phone charger now?
[Nexus 5 Accessories] Ano59:
I reassembled the Google charger. As I said changing metal plates makes the phone stick less to the charger so I may modify the charger's magnets arrangement.

Yes I use it with the bumper. Else I wouldn't need such strong magnets. ;) You really feel an huge difference with and without the bumper.

I didn't test the charger, still applying Plasti-dip coats, I'll probably add 2 more coats tomorrow.
[Nexus 5 Accessories] janeyenaj:
So? Anything new ? Is plastidip hard enough to test it in your car? I have ordered N52 6x2 mm magnets. Will try with them and see how it goes.
[Nexus 5 Accessories] Clems92:
very nice idea ! :D

I'm looking for good car mount, I'll try it !
[Nexus 5 Accessories] Craiq:
y I get N52 6x2 today and testet them in strength with my new invented force measure system :D

put a rubber around my sliding gauge and measured the distance when it breaks away.

tested 8x1, 8x2, 6x2

8x1 was the weakest. then comes 6x2, but it align best to the metal plate.

So I guess 8x2 is the strongest, because it also sticks to the coil (whats not in the simulation) and effect it's efficiency.

But I also get inspired by the google arrangement and with the help of a pliers and a hammer I break them into two halves.

Let stick the 2 halves together, place them on a little piece of metal an try again.

This way the two halves of the 6x2 were much stronger then the 8x2 what I used in my vid!

And two halves of 8x1 reach the strength of one 8x2

Poorly its still not strong enough to use with a bumper... Also two halves of 8x2 are not as strong as one 8x1 without the bumper.
[Nexus 5 Accessories] janeyenaj:
I guess I will have to use one of those bumpers that protects only edges of Nexus 5. Did you try to replace 4 metal plates in phone with N52 6x2? Any overheating?
[Nexus 5 Accessories] Craiq:
No and I don't like to do it.

Anyways 6x2 should be to tall.

Another aspect is, that my phone is the first revision and it looks like they increased the size of the plates now.
[Nexus 5 Accessories] janeyenaj:
I saw in earlier post that you dont want to do that. I thought that maby you are curious what the effect would be. Do you think that 6x2 is the best option then, if you dont use bumper@
[Nexus 5 Accessories] Craiq:
It's just a static field, but a really strong one. Could be all fine.

Ano59 is using it and don't tell any problem so far.

When you break the 6x2 in halves it's definitively the best in strength and effect on the coil without a bumper. If you don't want to break them, 8x2 looks best for now.

I'll modify my op tomorrow, when I have the time
[Nexus 5 Accessories] JohnLocke44:
I'm using 12x2mm N35 to hold the phone, but is not enought to hold it well.

Currently, I'm using 2x 12x2mm N35 magnets + 8x1mm N45 on each corner to hold the phone. With this configuration I can hold the phone without the case, and with the case I need to use a little suport with the magnets.

Now, I'm just testing without the wireless charger to ser how it goes.

Does any one had measure the magnetic field when the phone is on the magnets? I got around 750~820uT. Is this a problem?

You can test with an apk using the magnetic field sensor of the phone.

Thanks a lot!

Sorry for the bad english, I'm on the phone with Portuguese keyboard.

Enviado do meu Nexus 5
[Nexus 5 Accessories] janeyenaj:
Well, I got 50 magnets (6x2) comming my way ;) so I will have to work with them. How do I break magnets exactly and where do I put the halves - in charger or in phone or in both? Thanks. Is somebody interested in exchanging some magnets? I will soon have 50 pcs. 6x2 N52 and would like to trade for smth. Bigger to try different settings. I am from Slovenia. Sorry for my english.
[Nexus 5 Accessories] janeyenaj:
magnets

They were very kind at Spider Magnets (Ebay) and they will send me 15 6x2, 10 6x3 and 10 10x2 N52 magnets, so now I will be able to try different settings.

However on youtube I saw placement of six magnets. Do you think this is bad and why? It seems to work well for this guy:

type in you tube: DIY Magnetic Qi Wireless Charging Car Mount (it won't let me paste a link, because I am new user)
[Nexus 5 Accessories] Craiq:
If you want you can also break the 8x1 in two halves to get a good strength without the bumper.

What support of magnets do you use to hold with the bumper?

Google designed the phone to stick to a magnetic interface. So there should be no problem with this.

I just don't like to have such strong magnetic field all the time in my phone so every ferrometal gets magnetised over time.
[Nexus 5 Accessories] Craiq:
as I said, I took a pliers and hammer. Put some paper around the magnet so the pliers won't break it on points you don't want to.

Look that one half of the magnet is in the pliers and the other is hitable by your hammer. Then try hard :D

Put some attention to not hold the magnet with extreme force, because also very high stress can demagnetize the magnets. But I guess the very brittle NdFeB will break into lot of pieces before it's losing its magnetization.

Put those halves on the charger, like my picture in the op
[Nexus 5 Accessories] Craiq:
Six magnets is bad, because then the most magnets will only stick to the coil and will extremely affect the charging process.

Look at the pictures in the OP. There you find one with the arrangement of the metal plates in the back of our N5.
[Nexus 5 Accessories] janeyenaj:
Sory, what is OP? I didn' noticed any pictures of broken magnets halves placed on charger in this thread.

I thought that if you break a magnet, you only get 2 smaller magnets, both with south and north pole. So why breaking a magnet? How does this make it stronger? And do you break it like an aspirin tablet? - i guess - otherwise you can't hold it with pliers. Do you mean this picture? https://imageshack.com/i/0cv6xhj
[Nexus 5 Accessories] Craiq:
OP is my first post in this threat.

Y images of broken magnets aren't there.

That's how it works when you use two halves:

http://xdaforums.com/showpost.php?p=49869607&postcount=68

and this is with only one magnet:

http://xdaforums.com/showpost.php?p=49849273&postcount=62

when you look at the scale, in post 68 it's 10x higher what indicates that its stronger.

You can also see that much more field lines are only in the system and not around.

and here you have a picture of the broken magents:
[Nexus 5 Accessories] janeyenaj:
Thanks!

So, I should do it this way:

View attachment 2560516

Will you use halves too in your upgraded model?

Does split halves snap togother when close - i expect they should. S----N (split) = S--N S--N
[Nexus 5 Accessories] Ano59:
Hey guys !

Sorry about not posting those days, I'm busy at work those times.

I couldn't perform extensive testing of my mount, mostly because I still don't have the car adapter I ordered a few weeks ago (not the 3D printed part, a RAM-Mount I ordered). However I don't think pull force is a problem in this mount.

Here are the main news, and they're not all good.

1) Magnetic docking is strong even with the case

2) Wireless charging does work, the phone is detected

3) Charging rate is good. I used a 1A USB port (didn't have time to try 1.5A optimal charge for this device) and I could charge my phone by 20~25% over 40 mins by using Bluetooth, GPS and Waze at the same time

4) I still didn't notice any problem on the phone which could be related to magnets

5) There was no problem with Plasti-dip (when you apply it you have to use several coats though)

...aaand...

6) I experienced some overheats when using the device. It heats up the phone - probably the battery - even if it seems to have a random part (it doesn't overheat every time, and quantity of heat differs)

The charger I made is good, but there's still this heat problem, the phone may have to stop the charge sometimes and it would probably decrease battery life over time. I'd like to determine what is causing the heat and where does it come from, so I could design solutions. It'll probably wait for the weekend though. At the moment I'll keep using this thing. :)
[Nexus 5 Accessories] Craiq:
I think I'll. Breaked 4 6x2 in halves today.

Aaaand I'll get a new nexus 5 in the new revision :D

So I'll look into it and decide then what to do.

Before split:

SSSSSSSSSS

NNNNNNNN

after split:

SSSSSNNNNN

NNNNSSSSSS
[Nexus 5 Accessories] Craiq:
I guess it's because of the strong magnets inside the phone.

Must have a reason that some quiet voices in my head tell me to never put so strong magnets into my phone ;)
[Nexus 5 Accessories] Ano59:
That would be the best explanation if I got permanent overheat. But it only occurs when using this charger (I didn't retry with the Google one ATM, it would be a good thing to do). Phone activity seems to play a role too, but a minor one (I'm starting to get temperature curves from Battery Widget Monitor : the heat occurs when charging and phone usage has little effect on it).

Do you think inner (Nexus 5) magnets play the major role in this heat rather than the bigger magnets in the charger ? I don't have any clue so I hope you have, to let me think about solutions (like removing Nexus' magnets and replacing them with normal metal plates ? xD Not those strange plates in place at first). :) If the charger's magnets are the cause (too big, etc), it would be easier to solve by changing those magnets...

BTW I tried to locate heat's source, it seems to come from the battery (or the inner coil) and the charger heats up too (probably from its charging coil). Magnets don't seem to heat much, even if they're probably the main cause of it.

EDIT : It didn't seem to heat up much today, looks like it's a bit random. I really have to do some serious testing this weekend.
[Nexus 5 Accessories] JohnLocke44:
I saw in other post, that magnets may damage the OIS Sensor of the phone? Is this really true?

Enviado do meu Nexus 5
[Nexus 5 Accessories] Ano59:
I don't think so, because official Nexus charger has...magnets. ;)

I can't guarantee that such mods like changing internal steel plates to magnets or even using stronger external magnets, won't do anything, but I doubt it, at least for external magnets. You probably won't damage your phone using an external magnet unless it's a MRI magnet. :p Because it would make the official charger dangerous for the phone and it would imply lots of RMA for Google.
[Nexus 5 Accessories] Ano59:
A little update before serious weekend testing : I studied longer the charger's magnets, and I can confirm that you got this exactly right. You must obviously have a strong background in magnetic physics. :p

About the first impression of a "repelling magnet" inside the Nexus 5, I confirmed it's only ferromagnetic material like you described, and they way it interacts with magnets is giving this odd feeling of "thing that repels every magnet".

I looked harder at the charger's magnets because I start considering doing the way Google did, only if it would improve heat issue and if the magnets arrangement is not too big so it fits in the holes I drilled (which are bigger than needed). Luckily as I said I had ordered a vast amount of different magnets, so I have smaller ones that those I used.

If I manage to improve my charger this way, I could post a full and updated walkthrough about what-to-do and what-not-to-do. ;) So others will learn with my trial and error. I still firmly say that current chargers use sub-optimal designs, it's still true. I tried the way of changing Nexus' parts and it may be (or may not to be) the cause of heat. If I determine it's the cause of heat, I'll try the other way ; using Google's magnets arrangements.
[Nexus 5 Accessories] Craiq:
I'm back :D last days were bit busy.

And great news!: I'll will get a Nexus 5 with the newest revision :D

Then I'll measure again the position and sizes of the metal plates and update my charger ;)

I may have a explanation for it. But need to do some sketches, because it's way to complex to explain it in words...

Another problem is the positioning. When I look at my charging current there are huge differences when the phone is not at the right place.

But with the actual arrangement the is no difference in feeling where the metal plates are.

So I'll add another sketch with in my opinion the optimal setup for this.

I'm studying mechatronic and like magnets for producing such great force without losing power ^^

yes Google used the best arrangement for all those problems. You can try to break your 3/8" x 1/8" magnets in halves, but sounds really hard to do that.

This will fit in your actual drilled holes with the google arrangement..
[Nexus 5 Accessories] Craiq:
So here are the sketches how I explain me the heat
[Nexus 5 Accessories] Ano59:
Thanks. It's a bit beyond my knowledge level in physics but I get the main ideas.

I started some tests today including wireless charge from unmodified Google Charger and I was surprised to discover that it overheats too. Which means that the "magnet mod" may be responsible for this heat - I wasn't worried about those little magnets' effect on the phone's electronic but I didn't know they could cause heat. :p

I think it's time to remove those magnets from the phone and to put back the metal plates. ;) I hard-glued them so it will be though, but nothing impossible I guess ! At least my experiment will stay on the Internet to tell people it isn't the good way. :p

This doesn't mean your explanation isn't good ;

1) Your explanation is good for magnets inside the phone

2) Your explanation can be good for magnets inside the charger, aka "Heat comes from magnets inside the phone and from magnets inside the charger" - I'll be able to confirm this later

Anyway if I put back the metal plates I might have to modify the charger so it sticks like Google's.

EDIT : Removing magnets was much easier than expected. I shall resume testing tomorrow.

EDIT² : Removing magnets seems to have lowered heating rate, and charging is good. However my custom charger doesn't stick enough on the phone without the magnets mod. ;( I hope Google's solution would allow a stronger grip (it might, because I'd stick an higher volume of magnets in the charger).

Another question is : where damn would I buy for myself a ferromagnetic plate of the exact size I want ?
[Nexus 5 Accessories] janeyenaj:
My setup

Here is my setup:

I used 6x3 N52 magnets. - they seem to be the strongest after initial test.

I still found them not strong enough for my liking without the bumper.

They are not aligned exactly over metal plates inside the phone, because I placed them as far from the coil to avoid overheating and other possible effects. The magnets are perfectly in level with rubbery ring. The whole thing is then covered with black vinyl foil (I have a vinyl cutter at home so it wasn't problem for me) instead of plasti dip.

The magnets were strong enough though to hold phone firmly in place and phone did not move even on bumpy road, but I would like it to "stick" to charger even more.

I noticed also, that phone must be in the right position to hold well. You have to find that "sweet spot". If you move or turn it slightly (1cm or 20 degrees) it quickly loses attraction to charger and even repels in some points. I really hate that. MAby it has something to do with fact that magnets are not exactly over metal plates in phone, or with how the magnets are oriented toward plate - wich pole is facing metal plates.

Current in car was strong enough to slowly charge phone - despite the fact that I don't have 2A cord in my car. At home with original nexus charger attached to wifi charger I get 500-600 mAh, in car only around 100 mAh. I will buy stronger cord for car. While driving I used app CarHome Ultra, listen to some audiobook, I had bluetooth on, location(gps) on, 4g was on, navigation was on (sygic), and the phone was charging or staying at 100% wich is fine by me. The last 10 minutes of drive to work I tested video streaming through 4G (cca. 50 Mb of data was beig transfered). See battery history picture - my drive to work is highlited.

Sory for grammar errors - writing fast :)

Craiq: I have more questions :)

Does it matter how i turn magnets?

Must they be all turned the same way eg.: South on upper side?

What happens with current if I turn two of them in opposite direction than other two?

Does it matter? Would the pull be stronger if I add 4 more magnets? What do I win and lose with adding them?

Here are some pictures:

View attachment 2575015

View attachment 2575016

View attachment 2575017

View attachment 2575018

View attachment 2575019

View attachment 2575020

View attachment 2575021

View attachment 2575022

View attachment 2575023
[Nexus 5 Accessories] Craiq:
No to turn does not matter on the pull force.

In my opinion they are not close enough to interact so much to get some other results.

It will just influence the pre magnetization of the coil. wont be bad if that's homogeneous.

you will win strength and lose charging current. The more distance between the phone and the qi coil, the worse the charging current will be up to no charging anymore.

Hopefully on Friday I've enough time to modify and update my charger. Will post it then :)
[Nexus 5 Accessories] Ano59:
I'll try to use, for each side, 2 magnets of 6x3mm (aprox) to check if it works well. :p

I'm afraid of not getting enough force from this better setup though. But as Craiq says, 2 magnets with this orientation instead of a single magnets lets the phone "auto-dock" perfectly, like on the Google wireless pad.

Currently my same, unmodified wireless charger (with 4 ~10x3mm magnets exactly below metal plates of the phone) does stick but not a lot.

Anyway I'll try and tell you.

BTW I noticed that even without magnets inside and without wireless charging, my phone heats up much when running e.g. Waze. Probably because of the bumper, even if it's the official one. This damn bumper prevents me from good magnetic force, better charging and heat dispersal but I won't get rid of it, no naked phone for me. ;)
[Nexus 5 Accessories] Craiq:
That's what I've done now. the strength is slightly better then my 8x2 magnets.

To don't stop the phone from auto aligning I get rid of the rubber.

Now it align perfectly to the best position, but I also lose some stability against shaking.
[Nexus 5 Accessories] Ano59:
Do you think I would need a ferromagnetic plate to put under each series of 2 magnets ? 'cause I have no idea where to find this.

Magnets without
Google's design the metal plate
I wonder to put

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX <--- Metal plate inside the Nexus 5 ---> XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

<------------- Phone side ------------->
............... ...............

<----- Wireless charging pad side ----->

##### ##### ##### #####
##### ##### <------- Magnets glued together -------> ##### #####
##### ##### ##### #####

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX <---- Do I need this metal plate ?
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Would this increase pulling force ? Would it decrease interferences with the coil ?
[Nexus 5 Accessories] Craiq:
No you don't need to. I also didn't.

It won't increase pulling force, just decrease the interference with the coil.
[Nexus 5 Accessories] janeyenaj:
new setup FTW - so strong!

I tried a new setup.

I used 8x 6x2 mm N52.

And it is by feel 3-4 times more powerful than my current setup in charger (4x 6x3mm N52).

Guys this is really, really strong. And beside this - it almost does not matter how I put the phone on magnets. It does not repel in any direction or angle. It looses cca. 3/4 power if I rotate phone 45 degrees - that is true, but this is the worst possible rotation, because magnets are in this case farthest away from metal plates. If you put it like 20 degrees off ideal position it is still strong (stronger than my current setup). So you don't have to be precise when putting a phone on.

I must try this setup with charger and measure current while charging. If there is no decrease compared with current setup I will definitely use new setup. So excited :)

pictures and video:

View attachment 2578526

View attachment 2578527

View attachment 2578528

https://www.dropbox.com/s/zzgnmdu5trihhd5/magnet%20test.mp4
[Nexus 5 Accessories] janeyenaj:
12 magnets - weak

So I added 4 more magnets.

Overall the pull is 1/2 weaker. If I hit the right spot it is maby the same pull - but I really have to find the "hot spot". In 8 magnets setup, you just place it wnereever you want, as long it is not 45 degrees off.

And this kind of magnetic field does something weird with the phone. Screen goes on and off by itself.

See video. I think this MF is bad for phone. Why is this happening Craiq? Any theoretical explanation?

View attachment 2578570

video:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/v69jwprtmrcwhhe/12%20magnets.mp4
[Nexus 5 Accessories] janeyenaj:
8x 6x2mm - weak with 0,3mm case

Ano59: I tried this setup with this case http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/0-3mm-Ultra-Thin-TPU-Frost-Matte-Snap-On-Case-Cover-For-New-LG-Google-Nexus-5-/291049713213?ssPageName=ADME:L:eek:C:AT:3160 and the pull is very weak.

But this arrangement of magnets is still the best way.

With bumper you should use bigger magnets (like 8x 10x3mm) I guess, but with this arrangement.