yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Galaxy Note 3 General] Skander1998:
Destruction of data INSIDE the knox container after gaining root (which is a vulnerability in itself) is not data manipulation of any sort.

Tripping the counter will just void your warranty

(as you would expect anyway!)

and disable the knox container completely - it will NOT cause any other issue whatsoever to your device.

The System Security Policy service resets with a factory reset (so you can now go to the security tab and disable auto update).

Security Policy blocks known vulnerabilities that can give access to unauthorised root permissions and potential malware attacks.

Knox as a container can be opted out by uninstalling the knox application.

Knox as a counter is an integrated security measure and in no way should you ever be able to turn it off.

Security Policy is an active security system and you should not have the option to turn it off - you can prevent updates to the policy however.

Tripping the counter will not cause any hardware/software damage

(!! An E-FUSE triggering is not damage, it's doing the job it is designed to do in case of compromising the system !!)

- it will prevent you from using the knox container which is no longer safe after root and prevent you from getting warranty because you void it by rooting since the middle ages anyway - WiFi issues, dead devices and whatnot are not related in any way as most N3 users here are already using the device with knox tripped.

If you want root privileges you automatically lose your warranty and access to knox, nothing more nothing less.

PS: Update 16 blocked kingoapproot and vroot (which are technically

malware

), not root de la vega, the new bootloader blocked root de la vega because it's an

exploit

to gain root.
[Galaxy Note 3 General] xclub_101:
While the first line falls close to what a conspiracy theorist would say the second one is an interesting point where more attention would be useful.

It can be argued that in the context of EU law the HARDWARE warranty is different than the SOFTWARE warranty, and that a manufacturer can not evade providing the first.

The thing is - to the best of my knowledge Samsung has never (so far) denied HARDWARE warranty based on knox flag status - so in that regard you might have a starting point in case you want to set some precedent - and I would LOVE such a precedent to be set (in a way that protects the consumer)!

Other than that all the stuff on how knox is used by Samsung to spy on you and follow your every move is really not helping anybody's cause (except maybe Samsung's).

My final point on this matter is that people with a LOT more technical knowledge on the subject than Absolon here (people like Chainfire or AndreiLux and plenty other) have commented on this, so people should really learn more about the subject before starting the wrong crusade born out of conspiracy theories. Don't get me wrong - I WANT my consumer freedom, but I would also like that when legal precedents are set on the subject to have them set the right way, for the right reasons and with the right evidence (which will not be destroyed in court by Samsung lawyers in a day or less).
[Galaxy Note 3 General] Absolon:
I'm following a good advice and removing any further comments.

I really want to work in a constructive manner and I do not with to petty fight. So please.

If anyone else want to help explore, please message me. We are on different levels of knowledge but that is all what XDA is about. To learn and to help!

All the best,

Abs
[Galaxy Note 3 General] EdisDee:
If I trip KNOX and my phone will need a repair will this work?

[INFO][EU] Rooting and Flashing don't void the warranty
[Galaxy Note 3 General] Absolon:
As said, there are different views. Skander has one experience and that can be for one version.

For the I9505 the Knox did cause damage to the hardware and I did collect reports of findings and the majority was Wifi,

If this is the same for Note 3 I don't know. I write that I know, and what I think. We have free speech and I can have my thoughts and so can others.

It's rudeness and bluntness that should be avoided and I know that irony sometimes doesn't do as well on paper as in real life, but believe me, irony is the only thing that keeps me alive now days ;P
[Galaxy Note 3 General] Edbert:
So when turning on a GN3 for the first time immediately disable updates before you DL the bad firmware/bootloaders?
[Galaxy Note 3 General] xclub_101:
On ANY MODERN PHONE (if possible - for instance you will not be able to do that on any iphone) you should:

- start the phone once without any SIM card and without entering/activating any form of WiFi - this will guarantee that your phone will not connect first to the Internet

- check/set any relevant settings regarding security and software updates - for instance on Note 3 those are two separate settings, and the security one seems to be activated "by default"; currently the firmware update is not really activated "by default" since it WILL ask you pick a country and agree to some EULA

- either way, once you have disabled things (I also disable mobile data at this point) you can then power-off and insert your SIM, then enable WiFi and do whatever else you want to do.

I am not saying that it is "normal" to be this way, but since it is then you better be prepared for it!
[Galaxy Note 3 General] Skander1998:
Tripping knox won't break your WiFi or anything on the Note 3.

If you break it yourself by messing with it that's another thing.

Do keep in mind that your warranty is void by rooting but this depends on the seller or carrier.
[Galaxy Note 3 General] MxFadzil92:
Abit ridiculous though. Why they would want to avoid advance users like us to root our phones? Knox was implemented for corporate user or uses. But they jolly well know most of their customers are average users which are not completely working on highest intel in any agencies which require knox to be used. Their marketing strategy failed to the max. Focusing knox on both the corporate users and normal users. Secondly knox to them is both a security measures and a so called warranty tracker. By warranty rooting as does damage your phone software but not hardware unless extreme cases whereby people oc'd their phone to be rocket-ed out of their pockets. Hmm. Rarely i've heard root causes phone to be burnt or caused a crack to the screen or buttons alignment.

---------- Post added at 05:46 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:39 AM ----------
[Galaxy Note 3 General] Skander1998:
They do not stop you from rooting, they just re-affirm the million year old knowledge that rooting voids your warranty!

Bricking smartphones from rooting is very common, so does flashing kernels and whatnot, flashing kernels can actually allow someone to cause actual hardware damage to antennas, CPU's and GPU's and even kill the screen (in the note 2 for example, flashing an s3 recovery will burn the digitizer permanently)

Rooting also invalidates Knox's security completely, and any data there should be protected so they make it self destruct (the container) when rooted and the flag is there so after unrooting (and potentially having a still infected system) no one can activate a container anymore on the Smartphone.

This has side effects like the inability to root without detection, but the regular users you are talking about will not root their devices and so is 90+% of the users.

Knox is not an issue and nothing new, flashing anything from 2010 on any device voids your warranty, now it voids it with a permanent marker so you can't fool them and technically illegally get a repair from a broken warranty.

You break warranty terms even one of them, you don't get it.
[Galaxy Note 3 General] Absolon:
So what is it? Are we a small group or is it common? Or are we a small common group that it's worth to anger and risk getting their system actually broken (of course not by me, I'm a n00b)?

You They could easily have spitted out a corp model or make it fair play and let users who want to root the phone get an unlock-code. Other companies manage that just fine. And they even provide updates on their OWN page. Amazing, eh?

Why marking each phone with it's own certificate?

It doesn't make sense to go through all this cost for this little group. Return of investment 101?

But I must say it was a nice move to release a Knox-BL without information that broke a bunch of S4. Go and read in those forums.

So sorry, since I was one of them, I give you about uhmmm 0% credibility that it's just a flag, but then, how did you manage to KNOW that?

We where a pretty big bunch that tried to get answer to ONE single question, "What is the extent of the damage" and most came to /dev/null

or got that mail from "Steve" and managed to get "heavy damage" at most.

So sorry that I don't trust a blog post that it's just a flag when there are using in a thread that reports about their broken phones.

But now, when they got some wind, I'm sure there will be warranty claims, after all, some even broke it with Kies. Hell, I head someone hardbricled it by just a simple READ of the eeproms! uhm, no that was me actually who said that. But funny enough, another did the same yesterday evening.

So yeah, it's safe. Let us all put the trust and our phones into the assurance of a blog post, right? And you of course. Sorry.

/Abs, the nobody crazy Swede (I forgot the others it's too late)

And don't worry, I'm in the midst of claiming the rule in the law of not giving vital information that could have affected my decision to reconsider buying this so I might be gone soon to another forum with my "wild theories". Hell, maybe Samsung even calls. I'm sure they have my number,
[Galaxy Note 3 General] klau1:
I'm with you regarding the questions of security.

But I was wondering with regards to you question of why every phone private or corporate must have knox installed. Can't this be attributed to cost-cutting unification? It could conceivably be cheaper to simply release the same rom for every region instead of burdening the corporate IT team of having to install yet another software into the phones before they are operational.

To have a fair perspective, we should compare this to what BlackBerry has done with their "Balance" technology which allows the user to have a separate partition of private user space and corporate user space on the same phone. Samsung is obviously trying to capture this market if their implementation of KNOX technology which serves a similar purpose.

BTW, lots of people are having issues with WiFi even without tripping KNOX. WiFi is garbage even in the best of circumstances.

This video is quite interesting and relevant to this conversation: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFMMXRoSxnA

---------- Post added at 12:51 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:42 AM ----------

In fact there are millions of ways to execute code remotely to control every Smartphones:

The second operating system hiding in every mobile phone

http://www.osnews.com/story/27416/The_second_operating_system_hiding_in_every_mobile_phone

IMSI Catcher/Spy Detector

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=1422969
[Galaxy Note 3 General] frostmore:
so i want root to backup my apps to my sdcard.

for that i lose warranty because i do not have to freedom to use my phone the way i think best?

oh,wait,knox is something i do not want,but i cannot uninstall becoz samdung says its for my own good...its more "secured" for me.

how about i use TB to freeze the app...oh wait i cannot becoz i need root.. and if i root,samdung deems me trying to hack into "their" device,hence no more warranty for me...i have been a bad boy have i?

samdung may think that 90%(your numbers,not mine) of the ppl dun really are about knox or want to root their phones and probably won't use knox...if so,why bother installing it for just the 10% who wants root?

well obviously its the 10% who installed custom roms who are the real movers of the sale of samdung's phone!

backing up apps to sdcard,nice!,playing a HD movie without lag,thanks CM and bloatware free stock rom!, huge amount of space left for other more important apps...thanks root,thanks TB.

anyone here thinks TW with all the bloatware is oh-my-gwad! better than CM,please come out and state so.

you hear that???......the sound of crickets.....

dun be forcing an enterprise crap down ordinary consumer throat.if they want it,they install it.if they want security and knox,they choose it of their own free will.they dun wan it,then give them the option to COMPLETELY remove it.if they want to void warranty,give them the option(HTC did that,so dun go around saying ppl are being irresponsible).

pull a crapple stun by telling ppl how to use their OWN phone and voiding warranty coz they choose not to accept samdung's nonsense of a way is complete BS.it will not be long before ppl start using LG (thanks to the 10% rooters) and samdung gets slapped back to reality like some fruit co. was.
[Galaxy Note 3 General] Killberty:
Ihave root mj7 0x0 SELinux enforcing.

What can i do?

(Have low adb and anything skills but i am hungry for knowledge)

hit 'thanks' if i helped you

SM-N9005 DBT-DMJ7 0x0

XDA Developers 4 premium app
[Galaxy Note 3 General] Skander1998:
Do your research LG is making a Knox copy :)

Listen, Knox is preinstalled and we all know that, we all know that rooting now voids your warranty permanently, if you do not like this, don't buy Samsung devices!

Your whining won't do anything.

The End.
[Galaxy Note 3 General] frostmore:
so,why are you here trying to defend samdung's knox?

dun like the fact we rooters dun like samdung knox,then dun come into threads where ppl are professing their displeasure and dislike of knox.

Your constant defense of samdung's knox is not helping anyone nor does it solve the problem of us wanting it removed.

understand?
[Galaxy Note 3 General] Skander1998:
Define "problem"

Knox is a feature.

You are someone that wants to exploit the phone (for non malicious purposes).

Knox stops you and does what it is designed to do.

You bought the phone knowing that there is Knox, and knowing what the function of Knox is, therefore you should not complain about it.

It's like buying a phone and complaining why it receives calls.

If you did not know Knox is included, you did not do enough research (you really don't need research it's there everywhere).

Complaining won't solve "the problem" too, complaining here will not remove knox or reset the counter, Knox is here to stay.

Infact, if you want to root, with knox there or not you always are aware that your warranty is void by rooting.

Now that they don't allow you to fool them, you are upset, therefore you are having malicious thoughts to evade the terms of warranty illegally by masking your abuse of the non root rule to get free warranty services.

Knox won't stop you from rooting or do anything to your phone, you are free to root - but don't expect to fool anyone for free warranty services after rooting at your own will.
[Galaxy Note 3 General] frostmore:
obvioisly you think i am jus trying to pull the wool over samdung.

so i have no choice to remove aspects of the phone i do not want? i have no control over my phone?

so by ur logic,i root i deserve to lose warranty over faults that lie with samdung initially?

and all fault lies with me,the consumer,if i bought the phone knowing there is knox and complaining i dun want it or still my fault for not doing my research on what i buy....

really? consumers are in the wrong when major corporation like samdung forces ppl to accept software they do not want? and no option to legally remove it with full discharge on warranty from samdung.

last i checked,it was my phone,my property,paid for with my money.that also includes to use of knox and since i do not want it,i cannot remove it?

so who actually own my phone? samdung or me?

defending samdung knox will not solve any problem here and do not deflect away the amount of dislike and displeasure knox has caused the entire community.

don't fool urself into thinking we do not know what samdung is trying to do here.we are questioning why and what samdung is trying to achieve with their knox bullcrap.its not jus abt a silly 1yr warranty ,its about consumer choicez freedom and protection.
[Galaxy Note 3 General] Skander1998:
Your phone is yours at all times, the warranty isn't yours, the warranty covers what Samsung allows you to do, sure yes you can go ahead and trip knox, no one is stopping you - it's your phone but the warranty isn't, it has specific rules and specific usages scenarios.

You can technically remove Knox (for example when CM comes out it won't have knox) BUT the counter that voids the warranty isn't your business to remove since it grants you access to a warranty that you don't deserve anymore.

You have the freedom to do whatever you want, but with consequences to things you don't own and to things that have rules (warranty).
[Galaxy Note 3 General] Burfee:
Probably in Qatar the legislation is different, but in the European Union the software warranty should be separated from the hardware warranty and what Samsung is doing seems to break those rules.

In my case, i had no knowledge of KNOX when I bought the phone. I did research for tecnical specifications. I didn't think to research for them restricting my right to use the phone. When I buy a laptop, I am not restricted to install what operating system I want on it and to be administrator.
[Galaxy Note 3 General] Skander1998:
True, but the reseller or carrier is forced to abide by those rules, Samsung the OEM simply doesn't pay the reseller or carrier the cost of parts.

This is well documented.

In Fact the law in Qatar forces the resellers to fix your smartphone for any software/hardware damage in the first year even if it's bricked (except cosmetic damages).

Intertec the representative of Samsung in Qatar has to pay such costs on it's own.
[Galaxy Note 3 General] Burfee:
It doesn't say in any warranty document I received from the reseller that I musn't root my phone to keep my warranty. The first place I heard about this is this forum, where I came for instructions on how to root it.

The phone is a smaller computer. As I mentioned in my previous post, nobody voids my hardware warrany on my laptop if I install Linux on it or if I am ROOT on it. It get's void if i open its sealed case.
[Galaxy Note 3 General] klau1:
Gotta love people advocating support for the rights of companies and corporations instead of people.

Corporations only serve as a profit making machine with no morals or justice. Guess it takes the same type of people to support such entities.
[Galaxy Note 3 General] Skander1998:
You void your Mac warranty if you tamper the software on it.

PC's have very weird unique warranties because of the nature of Windows and Linux and the fact that people don't generally buy them for the software but the hardware.

But, No, your phone is not a PC and yes the reseller won't tell you to not root in the document because it is obliged to fix it by law where you live, however the official Samsung warranty leaflet does say that any change to the operating system outside "normal usage" <- (very broad weird legal term) voids your warranty.

Flashing Ubuntu phone for example on any smartphone will immediately void your warranty no questions asked, flashing ubuntu on your PC won't.

EDIT: even Samsung is cautious in wording it in the Knox blog

" Always check your warranty coverage with your device reseller or mobile service operator. Many will void your warranty if your device has been rooted."

https://www.samsungknox.com/en/blog...ox-enabled-devices-and-knox-warranty-void-bit

I'm not defending them or saying their terms are acceptable, but they do have the terms there and you accept them yourself when booting your phone and buying and clicking that I agree button.
[Galaxy Note 3 General] Burfee:
I wouldn't call PC's warranties "weird". I would rather call them normal. It is, from what your saying, because I never had a MAC and never intend to, MAC warranties and Samsung's phone warranties that are weird.
[Galaxy Note 3 General] jonboyuk:
I agree with Burfee...it is definitely the latter that is weird.
[Galaxy Note 3 General] frostmore:
The counter that voids warranty is FOR SURE my business since it is IN MY phone.and NO ONE is in any position to say if i deserve warranty or not, especially samdung or you, in particular, since you worded it that way.

i have the freedom to do whatever i want to the things i own.but if someone or SOME COMPANY decides to FORCE their bullcrap on consumers like me to abide by THEIR rules by putting things that prohibits ppl from the freedom of usage of their properties,don't expect ppl to bend over.

I want to remove things that DOES NOT BELONG TO ME (bit counter,since according to you it does not belong to me but is IN MY phone anyway)and i will not have it modify my phone in anyway whatsoever.but seems to me that, hey since i dun own the bit,i have no say to it being in my phone or its removal or having to take responsibility for it and also be accountable for it.

so why is samdung setting the rules to how i must use my phone? and why should i,in any form of common sense,follow samdung's directive,who gave them the authority?

---------- Post added at 05:37 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:17 AM ----------

PC warranties are pretty much standard practice in the industry.it's apple and samdung who are trying to short change the consumers once they are that "high" enough to be thinking they can decide how ppl should use their products and to follow their rules of the game.and we all know how that ended for a certain fruit company.

precisely the point.voiding hardware warranty jus because of root is laughable.all of us want admin rights/superuser to our laptops/desktops and mobile phones.this is a given with PCs but not when it comes to mobile phones.apparently,some samsters think we are not entitled to admins right to our property and even went as far to ensure we obey their rules and regulation on the use of our phones.

since when did some random stranger gets the right to demand on how best to use my property?
[Galaxy Note 3 General] maanz "L":
I like yr comments, honestly.

Reading them makes me want to say something...

I'm totally with u 100% regarding yr comments u made.

As u know, the "spies" are are everywhere in this forum, reading, commenting and learning our ****s here.

[MENTION=2142488]Absolon[/MENTION] knows it too.

We don't know who they are, they might be replying to yr own comments too...

;)

That's why, he chose to PM him.

What Skander1998 says it's true.

LG is slowly following like Samsung, making it's own kind of security platform called "GATE": http://www.techweez.com/2013/10/02/lg-launches-gate-enterprise-security-solution-mobile-devices-counter-samsungs-knox/

But that doesn't mean he can "try to defend" or state the facts of what Samsung has done and whatever ****s they have made in respond to yr comments.

This thread is about helping the OP, just like the title says.

It's true TW is running with all the bloatwares, even if u are not using them causing battery being drained.

And we deserve to lose warranty if we root??

Do we or the consumers deserve the Knox ****s??

All the consumers deserves it??
[MENTION=4655762]Skander1998[/MENTION]: What special thing does the Knox **** gave us that can really change our minds into accepting to use it?

Try speaking with Absolon about this and see what he will say to u.

[MENTION=3212981]frostmore[/MENTION]: Just ignore whatever he says.

His "trying to defend" or the "Mr Samsung-knows-everything" method/statement doesn't help the OP or the people here.

He should have said other important aspects to the OP, rather than counter-attacking with "facts".

I have spoken to [MENTION=2142488]Absolon[/MENTION] through PM and shared some important infos with him.

U guys can do this.

I'm trying my best to help him and he will do in anyway he can with his abilities

He's not going to argue with people here unless being provoked. ;)

So,

PM him

and share yr findings, infos, etc.

Cheers.
[Galaxy Note 3 General] frostmore:
i'll keep that in mind :)