yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro General] Gajet:
I'm sorry I don't agree. At the current point that technology stands you will not get an open OS multi-function device operating as well and as effeciently as a closed OS phone. Granted that Symbian may be more stable, but then it is the much older more experienced OS too.

The T610 has basically one job, it operates as a phone, using it's own software, which has all been written to work together at the expense of ignoring other possibilities.

The universal has an open OS which has to allow third parties to add software, that dosn't even exist yet. This open software is bound to be slower, it has to be, it has too many possibilities it has to consider.

Comparing the speed of a T610 and a universal is like comparing the Fuel economy of a Bicycle and a Jeep. They are 2 entirely different things.

I do know what the biggest problem for the universal is. It's the end user, the majority of which are completely outside of the intended trarget audience, and missuse a little knowledge badly.

Funny how my Universal never drops call, bluetooth works perfectly for handsfree and GPS. I can't remember the last time I soft reset, and when I did it was only part of the installation of new software. It dosn't crash, freeze or run any slower then I'd expect. Why is this? Am I just incredibly lucky?

However I have been using PDA's for a long time, and have come at this device as a PDA with a phone built in, rather than the other way round. If people think a T610 is better, (and yes I did have one once). Then you have bought the completely wrong device with a Universal, because while your T610 may be faster, my Universal is providing so many more functions.

(EDIT): lol Wow, that wasn't intended to come out as such a rant.
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro General] philtech44:
Firstly, nothing to be sorry about... BUT gajet do stop it!

Do yourself a big favour & dont try to turn my simple statement into a silly

HTC Universal Vs. Sony Ericsson T610 contest... that is not what I said!!

you've foolishly twisted my very SIMPLE point into something utterly ridiculous my friend!

Your comparison between bicycles, Jeeps and the like is also junk pal!!

Kindly go back to my original post and take it at FACE VALUE...

A phone is a phone. A PDA is a PDA.

A PDA with a phone is what it is and so is a Phone with a PDA...

the point is anything that calls itself a phone, whether or not integrated with a toaster or a kettle, PDA or surgically inserted somewhere interesting, should therefore function both properly and effectively, and with some degree of quality as a bleedin' phone!!!

Do you agree with that statement or not?

It's quite clear... the Universals performance as a phone is somewhat cr*ppy for todays technology - its a let down, no question about it. Could be & should be better!

I've compared only that function, to a phone that was designed 5 years ago, manufactured 4 years ago and released to the public thereafter.. and that FACT is my only point here in this thread...

Now as for your own personal experience of Universals, well might I suggest searching the forum for threads which cover the FACT that the Universal - for some of us - does drop calls, Bluetooth is temperamental, are forced to soft & hard reset, and so on... I mean why is the Universal forum so huge with 100's of 1000's of views in its history, with issues AND fixes abound?

But again I must stress, my personal view is the Universals phone function is cr*ppy compared to what it really should be... This is 2006... not 2001... if you dont agree lets see what phone performance will be like in HTC's next generation & equivalent of the Universal...

Do you think they will upgrade all the other functions and leave the phone as it is then?! :o

get me now??
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro General] Gajet:
Actually it is exactly what you said.

And my points which you completely missed are if you are going to compare the Universal to other devices, it should be compared to it's peers, not to a completely different device. Compare the Universal to the other similar PDA/phone combos by HTC, a HP Ipaq phone edition, it would even be fair to compare against a Moto a1000, SE P910 etc

Of course these devices improve over time, my Universal is considerable better than my Blue Angel, which appears in turn to have been better than the original XDA range. So yes the next device will probably be better still, but then where on earth did you get the impression I ever thought otherwise.
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro General] philtech44:
So I did!! errr... whoops! :oops:

But still it should still operate as a phone mate & do so well.. it is sold by mobile phone companies isn't it?

:oops: :oops:
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro General] Gajet:
No I agree with you 100% there. However when I compare the Universal to other devices of similar functionality on the current market, then it comes out very well.

In fact where I hang out usually at 3g.co.uk, they compare the Universal against other 3g phones, (Which I do realise goes completely against my main point :roll: ), but the Universal still comes out very well.

Yes the universal could be better, (mainly speed wise), but at this current point in time it does very well.

I wish I could clone mine to pass around to all those having troubles, but my suspicion is that most troubles are generated when some tweaking, or installation of third party apps are involved, or more commonly when the damn phone companies insist on using their own versions of HTC's software, (O2 Active and the damn Orange homescreen for example).

Anyway all the above is purely my oppinion, I had no intention of getting into any personal arguements and hopefully we have come to an understanding here
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro General] sipat:
Hi. I don't want to crank this up to another level, especially after the last post about coming to some understanding. Us Mac guys know that you can get quite emotionally attached to your gadjets, Gajet, but that statement above is so condescending!

I don't think you give people enough credit -- some may have bought their phone because it was the most expensive and is had good "showing-off/one-upmanship" value, but most of have acquired to manage our work and life. When you pay a premium price, you expect a premium product. Using your analogy, you wouldn't expect to have handle-bars instead of a steering wheel in your Jeep, eh?

In my opinion, it is fairer to compare the functionality of a PDA with similar functions on a desktop machine. and, my gripe is still about the Contacts database -- I want editable fields and true vCard compatibility. I don't think I'm expecting too much from what is supposedly a mature product (the Contacts bit is based on Windows for PC tech after all). As this is my first Win based mobile OS I'm still trying to sort out certain issues, but I understand that even moving data from/between supposedly similar or compatible PDAs is not straight forward.

Aaahh! Maybe Mac users are just spoiled silly, hey.
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro General] tailazoom:
Everybody keeps talking about what the thing is and what should be, but this is not the reason i started this topic for. So i must repeat myself. Who can fix bluetooth problems? Microsoft. Who can fix radio problems? Microsoft. Who can fix performance problems? Microsoft. Who can fix basic applications problems? Microsoft. Who can fix data sync problems? Microsoft. So we totally depend on Microsoft and she can take all the time she wants.
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro General] Gajet:
Hi Sipat

So don't you want this? http://www.pocketkai.net/asp/en/ind...p://www.pocketkai.net/asp/en/details.aspx?266

Or something similar.

Microsoft offer basic apps with Windows mobile, which are simple and nothing special. If you want more functionality you should look to third parties for real software.

It's like saying you want to do graphical work on your desktop PC, and then slagging of Microsoft Paint, because you refuse to buy a copy of Photoshop or whatever.

And yes you Mac people have been spoilt. You've never had the fun of altering your Config.sys and autoexec.bat files everytime you wanted to use a different piece of software lol.

And further more none of the above is HTC's fault. I can't slag Clarion off because the radio station is playing **** music in my car. (I love crap analogies lol)
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro General] jah:
@Gajet

I bought a JasJar and then later a XD Exec as I had a Nokia 9500, Palm Treo 650 and others and I was looking at a more advanced convergent device. What I found was a device with a fantastic sceen, great keyboard (much better the one on the Nokia 9500), poor (very) battery life, memory leaks (needs a reboot every day or two), poor radio quality and instability of the PowerSave function when using apps that access data on the SD card. Also in the early days I also managed to get a lot of crashes (with the JJ) when using the Messaging app when the radio had to switch between UMTS and GPRS. Now for me the Universal has some fundamental problems that a converged device should not have. So even though I have lost 3G download speeds I have gained stability and good battery life (and rock solid BT) by moving back to my Nokia 9500.
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro General] adamelphick:
Well i finally thought i should put my two penneth in to this argument!

I've been using 3G PDA/Phones since the early days of THREE with the Moto A920. I suffered crashes, OS updates, arguments with Three and Moto because i wanted the latest most advanced phone on the market. I expected teething problems...

I moved to the A925 with its better screen and better battery and bluetooth. Again a few problems but generally by this time Symbian UIQ had ebcome more stable. Plus i bought an IR foldable keyboard to use with it..

Next i moved to the A1000... which i still have 2 of... its a truly great device. Stable Symbian UIQ, open to install apps on, transflash that goes up to 512MB. Genreally a good phone and PDA. Its only drawback was no keyboard, and no way to attach my IR one as Moto in their wisdom had done away with IR (god knows why!)

So my contract with 3 comes up again and they have no upgrade path (apart from another A1000 - strange how they thought id want another one!?) So i moved to the next 'latest' piece of cutting edge technology - THE XDA EXEC.

I expected teething problems. I expected crashes, after all the OS is written my Uncle Bills company!! BUT, and this is a big but, I got a great piece of kit that EVERYONE i show it to marvels at! I get wireless internet anywhere i want, theability to sync my mail, contacts and everything else i want to do with a PDA (and certainly everything that my A1000 could do!) PLUS the best screen i have seen, andsome great games to boot... Oh and i managed ot get another Brando case liek the one i have for my A1000 (good old Brando in Hong Kong - hes a nice guy!) I can use Agile messenger to support my clients wherever i am... it's a perfect device for me. But then i was loking for this kind of device.

I think the Universals problems are twofold:

It's early days and liek most new products it's gonna take a few OS updates to get it right.

It's a PDA with a phone capability! The mobile operators needto stress this more so that people who only want what i woudl call a 'semi-smart phone' dont accidently get the Universal expecting it to be more like a phone.

I truly love my XDA Exec, and eagerly await the new updates - I'm used to it, i've been doing WINDOWS UPDATES for YEARS now!!

RANT OVER!!
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro General] sipat:
Hey, I'm not slagging off the HTC Universal, I bought one after all, didn't I. I think the point you're missing is this: the blurb for pocketkai says The Contact Manager is for view and manage your contacts in a new design. You can all 49 outlook fields switch on/off. Include your personal pictures for every person and that's the whole problem. I already have an app that "switch on/off" fields I don't need.

The point I was making is that in this day and age we should be able to amend or add fields within the standard Contacts database, and I have not found a way aroung this. Both the SE P910 & the Nokia 9500 at least allowed this. When I imported my contacts into the N9500, some of the numbers had wrong tags but I was able to chage these to reflect whether they were mobile or landline numbers. Any number with a "mobile tag" could then be selected for calling/messaging. All my children have two or more phones, and if I need to send one SMS to both numbers, I can't do that from within the Contacts database on the M5000. Well, I could, if I had a separate card for each mobile, i.e. the same person listed twice, but that defeats the purpose of the PDA... I could do this on my first Nokia Orange in 1994!

In any case, I have 600 individuals in my mobile at least half of whom probably have two mobile numbers, and at least as many additional contacts in a separate database on my desktop. (Yeah, beats me how I know 1200 different individuals in the UK alone... my international cantacts database is yet another file on the desktop).

I am now seriously considering purchasing FileMaker Mobile to sync my desktop/PDA so as to allow me to have multiple mobile phone numbers for each contact. I should find out first if FMM will allow me to dial/SMS directly from within its database.

BTW, I love your (crap) analogies! :shock: :lol:
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro General] simon_darley:
my goodness, boys, boys, boys, or should i say girls....

if you dont like the phone, sell it, stop whinging, bickering complaining and going on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on

you all sound bunch a bunch of single grandmothers sitting around a bingo table with nothing better to do than bicker about the inadequacies of your lives/phones

build a bridge and get over it, or turn around and go back
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro General] sipat:
You start a serious discussion about something and some pratt comes along and spoils it. At the end of the day, if a device is limited in what it can do, it will not sell well.

We all know that individuals aren't going to all sit down and write to the manufacturer about what they see as missing functions from their device and these forums are a good way of discussing and communicating issues to manufacturers, either because they, the manufacturer, are here reading our comments or because some kind soul is going to collect these gripes and print them in a review of the product, or something. Most manufacturers (and software houses) release less than complete products for "market testing" and improve their product/software as they go along.

If we're going to stifle discussion, we may as well get rid of the whole bloody forum!
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro General] RyanZA:
While it's fine to discuss aspects of the phone here, discussing stuff thats missing from the base Microsoft Windows Mobile 5 distribution does not make any sense. Microsoft is most certainly not looking here to see customer feedback, they have their own very large channels for getting feedback on their operating systems.

The default applications that come with WM5 are pretty bad, same way as the default drawing, writing, movie applications that come with Windows XP are pretty bad. Do you see anybody complaining about that, though? Obviously not, you can go buy Microsoft Office to improve the writing, download virtual dub to get better movie making, and download Adobe Photoshop to get a better image creator. However, many users don't want all this stuff. Some people are quite happy with just using the little functionally limited and free applications because they *don't need the extra features which would push the total base cost up*.

You can whine as much as you want about how you want all these strange extra contact options. I don't want them though because I would never need them. If I could get them for free then sure, it would be nice. However if adding all these extra features pushes the price up even $5, I'm not going to be very happy, since you could have just gone out and spent some money on any custom application you might want.

Also, all these complaints about phone size or about adding an external screen. I'd say both of these complaints are currently just pipe dreams. I can assure you that HTC tried to make this device as small as possible. I'm sure that was one of their main goals. They managed to get it down to a size which can actually fit in your pocket by putting in some pretty innovative stuff like a swivel screen. Adding an external screen is not possible with the current version of Windows Mobile. WM only has support for one screen, and therefore adding an extra one would have required either huge software changes, or adding in lots of extra circuitry to provide that external display, which likely would have make the device *even bigger*.

Basically what I'm trying to say is that complaints without thinking of the alternatives seem fairly pointless and are hardly benefitting anyone, especially when your complaints are directed in the completely wrong direction. Especially when you can get around many of these complaints by buying some software to fix the problem for you! (Or try help us get Linux running, then we can download all the software for free. :D ) Are you just going to sit there on the fence complaining about the world, or are you going to go do something about it?
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro General] jah:
In a funny way RyanZA is right.

I tried to find a M$ email address where I could report my software problems and found that I had to contact O2 for the XDA Exec. I sent an email to O2 and they told me to go to the local store - they just suggested using the latest ROM! So where is the "very large channles" for collecting user feedback?

Us users have no way to influence M$ - we have to take what we are given! Why else would we have a VGA device with QVGA WM5 apps!
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro General] jah:
@simon_darley, I assume you have infinite resources to buy and sell your devices. Many people cannot just sell their devices as they don't want to lose 30% to 50% of the value and others are tied to a 12 month contract. As a previous member stated, a forum is a place where people can share their experiences - good and bad. If I sold my devices because I was not happy with them I would only have my Psion 5mx left! Since 1998 we have made little progress on software stability and quality as far as I can see.
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro General] simon_darley:
and still it goes on

yes I am happy with, it does what I bought it for, meets my needs and does what they indicated it would.

sure it has some minor issues, but I built a bridge. what are you going to do? waste your life arguing debating whinging and generally waste your life on a pointless exercise, or cop the couple o hundred bucks and get on with your life, happily.

$200 verus happiness, hmmmm tough choice eh.

turn around and go back, you obviously don't have the ability to build the bridge...
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro General] jah:
@simon_darley, as I said you obviously have more resources then most and therefore can buy happiness. I am actually happy as I can use my Nokia 9500 or 7710 instead - infact last week was bliss with the 9500 as I did not need to worry about how low the RAM was or about the battery running down too quickly and I did not need to worry about the BT signal when I had to pick-up a call etc. Also with my tiny Vaio TX1XP and a 3G data card and a 6.5hr battery life I really don't need my XDA Exec for many things.
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro General] Riceburner:
Does anyone think Microsoft give a flying f*** about the customers?

They never have in the past.
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro General] Ineedtoys:
Of course MS listen to customer feedback. Just look at the visible improvements they've made to the calendar application since they first designed Pocket Outlook. Like highlighting Saturday and Sunday in Red. Thanks, Bill. One day we might even get something that can show a whole working day in one screen, or God forbid, a full weeks' appointments. Can't expect them to rush on that one though. They've only had 10 years.
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro General] cr2:
wince as a graphical shell is quite polished.

wince as an operating system is crap.
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro General] cr2:
You should thank God, that microsft has nothing to do with the radio on your phone !!!

Radio runs a realtime unix OS on its own CPU.
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro General] philtech44:
So its all about the software? Dont you suspect the hardware (HTC) is at blame?
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro General] philtech44:
Ahhhh Unix! ... mmm the core of Mac OSX!! :wink:
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro General] philtech44:
You Agree?! after all that... you agree! LOL

No tweak, homescreens or 3rd party apps are the issue... search the forum... the fundamental issue is simply the phones performance.. no excuses please!
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro General] tailazoom:
@philtech44

I am not complaining about software.

I am not complaining about hardware.

I would buy my jasjar today as it is the best in town.

In a year or two windows Mobile could kick symbian out of business.

I hope that at least an European Untitrust Commission will keep an eye on this market.
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro General] Gajet:
Bah so explain it to me in simple terms.

I have an O2 XDA Exec, it works as a phone. Bluetooth functions in all aspects except caller ID. The PDA functions all work very stabily at a very acceptable speed. I never reset it!! Why is this then if the Universal is such a poor piece of equipment???

I don't ***** about how crap the free calendar app is because I installed Agenda Fusion. I don't ***** about how crap Media Player is, because I installed GSPlayer and TCPMP.

What can I say, I like computer games, but I don't slag of the current market in PC games because solitaire is boring and that's all that came pre-installed on my XP PC.
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro General] jah:
@Gajet

so you "never reset" you XDA Exec. My Exec for some insane reason needs to be reset every two days - it must be me not knowing how to use it! Obvious really, so if I stop using it I wont need to reset it!
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro General] Gajet:
@ Sipat How about his one;

http://microsoft.handango.com/Platf...2&productId=177063&sectionId=5850&catalog=30&

"Inesoft Address Book the most convenient way to manage contacts on Windows Mobile device.

Among unique advantages, Address Book gives an opportunity to note unlimited quantity of additional phone numbers, e-mail addresses, instant messenger IDs, dates and addresses."
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro General] philtech44:
LOL@jah
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro General] SiliconS:
I'm with Gajet here. My Exec works fine and always has. Never gets a reset. Never misses or drops calls and -- since I upgraded my BT headset to a modern Jabra (BT800) -- Bluetooth performance is flawless too.

And I tend to agree with simon_darley, in that there are too many threads in this forum whingeing about the Universal as though anybody's reading them who gives a ****. These forums used to be a resource for us to help each other, not for disgruntled users to fill with impotent and pointless complaints. Try www.iboughtthewrongmachineandwanttowhineaboutit.com :) These 'I hate my Universal because....' threads are obscuring the useful threads for people who want to enhance or improve their machines' performance! Pleeeeeeease no more!

**** - by replying I've just pushed this thread to the top of the list again. Bad, naughty SiliconS. *smacks wrist
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro General] jah:
The latest issue of Palmtop Magazine (Issue 12) reviewed the MDA Pro and the MDA Vario. This is what they said about the MDA Pro:

"is ultimately disappointing...this could have been a winner..."

And the rating for the Vario was much much better. The reviewers at Palmtop have often given very high ratings to PPC based devices therefore I do not consider them to be biased.

It is reasonable to share why, after spending for some people $900, you are disappointed. Both M$ and HTC are very happy as they've made good profits, they're not interested in improving the Universal now that it has been launched.