[One (M7) General] One Twelve:
HDR takes multiple exposures and combines them. You have no control over this process. Given that auto isn't mature with Z1, it follows that neither will HDR be mature on Z1.

If you want good quality photos, then try not to use HDR. why ? jpg is lossy. jpg + jpg + jpg = even more lossy. Also takes longer as you have to wait for 'processing images' before taking next shot.

About sky/ground, what you do is use spot metering. If you spot on the clouds, the ground becomes dark, on the ground you blow out the sky, you have to spot somewhere in the middle. Now if the subjects are in the same focal plane then you can get away with this otherwise HDR is the only option as focus will not be at infinity. HDR is a compromise in this particular case to get you better exposed shot.

Its not required for every shot, only where there is big difference in lighting between foreground and background and subjects are in many planes that you want to keep more or less in focus. Personally, unless its landscape type photo this can be distracting, better to keep the subject in sharp focus and forget if the rest is blurred, it will make for a better shot.

In camera HDR is a recent 'innovation'. If you want the best HDR, then take 5 exposures from -2 to +2 with camera on a tripod, use a HDR speicialised program to combine them on a PC and then see the results compared to the 'poor man's HDR' the camera provides.

Then i would look only at the pics where HDR was not used in this comparison. HTC one has had many months to improve HDR, it did not come perfect out of the box. Same with Z1.

Z1 has been out now just under two months, takes time to get to know its quirks. Each phone camera is different. Since they set WB & EV i can tell they are not complete n00bs. But more hands on time is always better than less. Photographer is more important than camera.

If you have the originals, then look at the resolution. the 20MP will be (5248 x 3936) and the 8MP will be (3840 x 2160) or (3,264 x 2,448) . File sizes will also be bigger. I think they have used 20MP for all, can you confirm ?

This matters because currently you will get better shots with Z1 in 8MP 4:3 than with 20MP. Noise control is much better due to oversampling. Also 8MP means you can use different SCN modes which is not possible with 20MP. For low light shots or indoors this will make a difference.

For now we can say 20MP means 2x zoom is better than lower resolution sensors. Photos at 20MP are not necessarily better than 8MP. I wish these cameras put out RAW because then we will really see what the camera can do instead of what the compression program is doing to create those jpgs :(

When people make comments about camera they are primarily commenting about

1) auto and how well it works

2) image compression algorithm. good compression + good quality means more time + more CPU, a phone is not the best place to do this. So you can take the next shot quick, compromises are made here which affect image quality.

3) stock camera app. 3rd party apps in playstore may do a better job in certain situations.

So we still do not get to see what the camera can do without these other factors interfering in the process with ANY phone camera.

It was a good choice for image host because inspite of resizing it still preserved the exif data. Many others strip it out. I was surprised to see them. So you passed the minimum test here :p

Better still would be to resize them yourself with a good quality program and then upload. How well these image sites do resize is not transparent. They have to handle lots of load.

I'm trying to figure what you mean here. The only clue is flash is 2x more powerful. So in cases where a more powerful flash helps the Z1 could not compete but there are cases where your flash will be over powering and the Z1 will be just right. This isn't a problem because you can always diffuse the light by putting some paper on the flash. Where the more powerful flash has an edge is in freezing motion if subject is moving with low light, so long as it happens less than 6 feet away. But then flash makes for lousy photos since its direct at the subject and not reflected. Big problem with phone cameras currently. They always locate the flash below the lens instead of above it. I don't why this is. There is no off camera flash option available as yet. eg. you cannot bounce the flash of the ceiling and get better photos.

But why to use the flash in the first place, when both cameras can do good low light photos. None of the subjects in the photos were moving so there should not be a problem here.

We don't know what your cousins were thinking. Embarrassing does not say much, why was it embarrassing and what could be done to make it better. There are many indoors shots with Z1 in the photo thread, nothing embarrassing there.

This applies for impromptu shots. How often does this happen for you ? Not a single one of your sample shots comes in this category. My feeling is these impromptu shots are maybe 5% of the time. These are the hardest to get, subject may be moving and you will not get a good shot, you will get an ok to bad shot.

The rest of the time you can plan, take many shots, play with angles for better composition etc. But the thing about camera in your pocket is at least you have a camera in the first place and if the time is there you will get the shot whereas before you had nothing.

People say you are not supposed to get good photos because this is only a phone camera. But with more capable cameras they take lots of effort to get a good photo because its a good camera. Makes no sense. To get a good shot with phone camera you have to work harder because there are more limitations. This means more possibilities as well.

And what about 3 months from now ? will your statement still be valid.

if you follow the evolution of the Z, it took anywhere from 3-5 months after launch to get it right. So there is no reason it will change with Z1, maybe it might come sooner. This unfortunately is a sony thing. others will put out cameras that are mature but have bugs elsewhere. Nobody puts out a perfect phone at launch. Look hard enough and you will see the bugs, what matters is whether the vendor is prepared to fix them or not. How good is their past record in doing this.

But the reviewers always get the latest & greatest and then move on, they do not bother to review after 3 months. People also want latest & greatest and then find its not mature and think its bad. But after 3 months they change their mind. Just see the photo threads for any flagship here and you see the same comments. My <old phone> takes better photos than this <new phone>. very predictable :laugh:

if you look at HTC photo thread, around march-may, reviewers were complaining that htc is oversharpening images because they can see halos around the edges. What is the solution ? set sharpness to -2 or -1 gives a softer image and no halos. So htc got bashed quite a bit too. In fact i think htc is most bashed camera out there because everybody thinks 4MP is not enough. But what can they use to display 4MP ? there are no 4k displays out there or they are very expensive. Full HD is only 2MP. you can still print 10x14 inch prints with 4MP. But no... 4MP on HTC is not enough or bad. pfft.

This is one thing that still i'm not able to understand. 300 pg thread on this omg!. There are theories around but nothing conclusive as yet. Some people are saying the heat does it over time. With Z1 if it gets too hot you will not be able to use the camera. So too much heating over a long time is supposed to cause this problem with tinting. Its such a pity to replace the phone after only 6 months :crying:

This tinting is the problem as i see it with htc one. Not 4MP.