yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Nexus 5 General] :
Hi,

Again just my opinion or point of view (since it seems I'm the only one to think like that, see my previous posts also in this thread, well maybe I'm totally wrong but I defend my ideas even if when you go against a "well integrated general idea" it's frowned upon sometimes :)), maybe wrong explained but at least I try... :angel:.

I've read the articles about all the fuss about benchmark cheating. When you open a benchmark app all the cores goes online and at the max CPU freq, I don't call it cheating. Open an heavy games or another heavy app and it will be the same behavior for some (unless the app is developed to run only on two cores). But when it's a bench it's called cheating... For me it's use all the raw power of the device. Maybe I'm dumb but I don't understand why it's called cheating, don't see what's wrong... It's the normal behavior to have a quadcore phone, you use an heavy app, whatever app it is, all the cores are used and according to the CPU load all the cores runs at the max CPU freq.

I see also in these articles that the two Nexus tested (Nexus 4 and 7) aren't cheating as it's stated (with all cores online at the max CPU freq)... Ok but when I open a bench with my N4 all cores goes online and at the max CPU freq directly, so...

When you have posted your previous bench scores with Android bench, I guess that all the cores goes online and at the max CPU freq like it's explained in the different articles, right? And like others bench apps. But for you, here, it's not cheating :rolleyes:

Raise the CPU temp limit before thermal throttling when a bench app is "detected", yes maybe it's cheating, I can agree. But it could be also called "optimization" for a certain type of apps... :D

For me cheating is when you edit your build.prop file to add a line to allow "FPS caps unlock", that give you about 3000 points more in Antutu for the 2D score and about the same thing with Quadrant.

12 000 in Quadrant full stock is good (the average is 9000/10 000), with Dalvik/Bionic patches you can have about 22 000 :p:D

In a previous post you said "Stock ROM is optimized. It is obviously not optimized the same way as other manufacturers like Motorola" and I totally agree (and like others manufacturers too about the Dalvik/Bionic stuff). And when you said "But the idea that stock rom is not optimized is annoying", I agree also here, I never said the opposite (or it was not intentional, wrong explained).

But in any case these patches makes a difference in benches (expect the one you used, weird since it uses some part of other benches which them are improved...).

After in general UI I've already gave my opinion (very mixed as you can read, so we should agree together).

Each have its own opinion, no worries and nothing against you, I just try to give mine and as I said maybe in the wrong way but... :good:

Sorry for a part of OT, maybe this discussion would be better in the benchmark thread.

:)
[Nexus 5 General] xboxfanj:
I partially agree with you, as long as they only use frequencies that you can use. Samsung's GPU overclock is cheating if only benchmarks can use it. I'd also rather for benchmarks to act the same way games do. I don't think anyone would be mad if they did an app spy to improve launcher performance or game performance, but improving benchmarks that way is sketchy.
[Nexus 5 General] :
@ xboxfanj, I totally agree with you with this example, I saw it also, but my post was long enough... Here in this case, yes, it's cheating to use a "ghost" freq only available and used for benches.

For the rest yes, but it's a part of commercial stuff..., even if I disagree with this kind of cheating like above with the GPU freq to show higher benches....

After for the history of the "all cores online at max CPU freq", I gave my opinion... :D

In Touchwiz it's not only an history of cores and freq to have an improvement ... :p :D

It's a long debat... Go back to ours Dalvik/Bionic patches :laugh:

:)
[Nexus 5 General] mikeacela:
Before and after results, flashed both dalvik and bionic optimizations.

On Cataclysm, elemental kernel

So far I have noticed the phone to be noticeably smoother

Thanks for this
[Nexus 5 General] mikeacela:
After
[Nexus 5 General] cellsafemode:
When I say these benchmarks that are most well known are cheating I'm referring to two aspects.

1. The benchmark itself behaves differently dependent on detected hardware.. Ie. Uses more optimized versions of functions or simply compiled better for one arch vs another. This is less likely than #2

2. The manufacturer built in cheats in the ROM to behave differently for certain particular apps. Not simply different use situations, but particular apps. They can do this low level by activating unsafe frequencies for a short time or by skipping known calculations with predictable results.. Ie, using pre calculated answers that normally would be used by benchmarks to calculate fpu and integer performance.

If you run no name benchmarks and get no change or a regression before and after flashing these files, but get a 30% boost when running benchmarks like quadrant and antutu and the non benchmark experience is inconclusive then #1 or #2 is cheating.

---------- Post added at 09:54 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:36 PM ----------

I would edit the above post but the android app for xda has trouble with being off by 1 when detecting the post count

My bad about 30%. The score jump in antutu seems to be around 24k to 35-38k according to most testers.

So around a 50% increase in performance that can't get a decent consensus of actually being noticeable outside of these benchmarks... That is simply not possible. Plenty of real world situations would produce visible differences with a 50% improvement in performance.

Basically I'm saying if a 50% increase in a benchmark you trust is to be believed then nobody should be able to not see or even produce evidence of this substantial performance boost

---------- Post added at 09:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:54 PM ----------

Against this performance boost...

Still can't edit post because off by one bug.
[Nexus 5 General] Sir Zeph:
I don't see much of a difference after flashing :/
[Nexus 5 General] jjhiza:
A 1400 point jump is still pretty decent man... Honestly though, if you judge kernels and mods based on benchmark scores, you're always going to be disappointed.
[Nexus 5 General] :
Hi,

@ Sir Zeph, take a look here: http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?p=49947111, almost same thing like you. But without more details on your rom/kernel/settings, etc... how can we tell you?

Maybe thermal throttling...

:)
[Nexus 5 General] gee2012:
Don`t care much for benchmarks but to me it looks apps and widgets are actualy loading faster and the OS overall works a bit smoother than before flashing the Dalvik optimisations. For me it doesn`t look like a placebo effect.
[Nexus 5 General] jjhiza:
It's definitely not a placebo effect... Apps do load faster, transitions are smoother, multitasking is better, and the OS responds faster for sure. :thumbup:
[Nexus 5 General] :
Hi,

You are on stock rom?
[Nexus 5 General] gee2012:
Yes i`am.
[Nexus 5 General] :
Re,

Ok, it's what I think, if there is an improvement it's on stock rom that you'll notice it the most in general UI (and benches obviously).

With a custom rom with already some Dalvik/Bionic optimizations from AOSP/Codeaurora nothing noticeable in general UI (at least for me), but always an improvement in benches. I always use them on Purity rom (already optimized with Dalvik/Bionic from AOSP/Codeaurora), in general UI no gain but in benches that makes a difference.

And maybe there is some custom roms with already these patches from here, but it's not listed...:confused: :D

Thanks ;)

:)
[Nexus 5 General] jjhiza:
I'm on the stock ROM also, while I build my custom ROM. I think you're right though, some devs already bake these mods into their builds, so flashing these won't have any effect, if your ROM comes with them by default.
[Nexus 5 General] :
Hi,

Yep, and maybe sometimes they "forget" (the devs) to specify it (just my opinion)... So it's maybe why some users with custom rom closed to stock (without AOSP/Code Aurora optimizations for Dalvik/Bionic) see nothing better with/without the patches? Well, it's just a supposition :angel:

The thing is to keep in mind that the Dalvik and Bionic libs/bin files from here are not the same than the Dalvik/Bionic stuff like I mentioned above (AOSP/Code Aurora).

Here it's from Qualcomm closed source and as some devs said we don't really know what they exactly have compared to AOSP (it's not from me, just in case).

What I mean it's even with a rom like Purity, in benches, these patches from here make even a little difference in scores. The difference is smaller than before (the changelogs have always some (new) commits about Dalvik and Bionic, for sure with some improvements) but there is still an improvement in benches.

In general UI it's the same thing, nothing less and nothing worse in different scenarios, so I always flash them since I play a bit with benches, why not? :D

I even test the files from the HTC One GPE because I like test, but nothing more (info here: http://xdaforums.com/showpost.php?p=49829491&postcount=642).

Like you at the beginning, when I was on stock rom, I tested and felt a little improvement too in general UI. The best is always to try and see, each users make its own opinion ;)

:)
[Nexus 5 General] rickyx32:
These patches do hold real world benefits, though they are definitely more pronounced in benchmark tests. A simple way to notice the differences at least for me is when I compare Nova launcher performance and UI transitions with and without the patches, everything becomes even more buttery smooth as soon as I flash them. I can say the same for the AOSP/Codeaurora optimizations, though they do lag a little bit behind, no pun intended :)
[Nexus 5 General] HamsterHam:
I am running ParanoidAndroid Beta 4.

I flashed both zips.

Before

Just Dalvik Flashed

After Dalvik and Bionic Flashed

I think there is a noticeable difference.
[Nexus 5 General] :
HamsterHam, you use ART runtime, right?

Try with only Bionic patche to see.

:)
[Nexus 5 General] gee2012:
Hi, can i also flash the Dalvik improvements when i use Franco kernel?

-Edit- found the aswer alleady.
[Nexus 5 General] :
Hi,

Yes, it's not related to the kernel.

:)
[Nexus 5 General] cellsafemode:
Hasn't the moto x 4.4.2 dropped already? Has anyone compared their art, dalvik, and bionic libs and executables to these 4.4's?
[Nexus 5 General] cellsafemode:
Further testing... Note: stock with art.

Flashed bionic and dalvik.

Most numbers in antutu aren't changed or barely change.

Two numbers are significant though. And they are a combination of what people are saying they feel and the memory regression I noticed in my more broken out benchmark.

Before

After

You see multitask takes a huge leap. That impacts user experience directly. Memory is negatively impacted and minor to no changes else where. Obviously this only looks at bionic. Multitask being a general term, I'm not sure what function in bionic they improved but it may have to do with locking improvements with threads or thread creation improvements.

Interesting. Would like to see updated libs to 4.4.2 rom that is out for unlocked devices. Also, why not try out their art? They might have modified that from reference in prep for the move to it
[Nexus 5 General] :
Hi,

I tested the newer 4.4.2 Dalvik an Bionic files from the HTC ONE GPE (Moto X or HTC ONE GPE, it's the same thing, I mean they are optimized as well with the lib and bin files from Qualcomm), http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?p=49831688 (and my post above)...

Maybe the Moto X have another Dalvik files version, I'll test them in a few days (or maybe today if I have time) to see, if I remember right I saw a stock 4.4.2 firmware...

I'll post them like for the HTC ONE...

:)
[Nexus 5 General] :
Re,

So just in case if someone want to test (I have not tested yet) here in attachment the Dalvik and Bionic files from the stock 4.4.2 rom from the Moto X.

Backup first just in case.

EDIT: ok, flashed without any issue. But for me no difference between these ones and the ones from the OP. It's the same thing in general UI or in benches (ok it's a quick test), but at least nothing worse (like the ones from the HTC One GPE).

Maybe another feedbacks?
[Nexus 5 General] HamsterHam:
I don't use ART at the moment as running xposed framework.

Will switch to ART when PA include more features like pie.
[Nexus 5 General] cellsafemode:
What about testing moto x libart?
[Nexus 5 General] :
What are exactly the files?

I have only the two one in attachment related to ART. Maybe there is anothers?

libart.so
libart-compiler.so

Always from stock MOTO X 4.4.2 rom.

Try and let us know...

:)
[Nexus 5 General] xboxfanj:
Fairly certain that libart is unchanged from aosp thus far. Qualcomm would have pushed a commit to CAF to support it if they changed it or used a static library.
[Nexus 5 General] :
Hi,

I know, but cellsafemode asked. I give him the files if he want to test, so...

Have you took a look in the MOTO X 4.4.2 Dalvik/Bionic stuff?

I have also tested the ones from the HTC One GPE, but nothing noticeable (I don't know if you have seen my post, I uploaded them if you want).

:)
[Nexus 5 General] freakonaleash:
I tried it for 1 week and and I can't see improvements respect stock libraries.Rather I think that the phone goes better with art.

It would be interesting to understand why in the benchmark results are higher.

Reverted back to art

Nexus 5 stock rom with franco kernel
[Nexus 5 General] :
Hi,

Read the last pages, it's explained, or at least there is different explanations.

After that for the differences/advices/opinions about Dalvik vs ART there is another thread...

:)
[Nexus 5 General] cellsafemode:
First attach is before and second is after.

Not very different as expected but still a reproducible increase in multitask numbers over what I was able to get before despite lower runtime. Might simply be from different compiler used between Google and Motorola. Either way I don't see a need to revert
[Nexus 5 General] ninolucci:
nexus 5 dalvik bionis

mi nexus 5 alcanza ya en antutu x la puntuacion de 34419 mil con stok rom y dalvik bionic flasheado en fusion con art:laugh:

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?>

<scores>

<item>

<memory>732</memory>

<integer>1755</integer>

<float>1618</float>

<score2d>1612</score2d>

<score3d>9642</score3d>

<database>655</database>

<sram>1740</sram>

<svm>1876</svm>

<srs>0</srs>

<smt>4519</smt>

<snand>1067</snand>

<score>25216</score>

<date>2014-02-07 00:13</date>

<cpu>2265 MHz (x4)</cpu>

<model>Nexus 5</model>

<version>4.4.2</version>

<hash>3419dc4f7470c85bc6ef8b5e1e5aa9215e370332</hash>

</item>

</scores>
[Nexus 5 General] freakonaleash:
I said it because to me they all look suppositions ;)
[Nexus 5 General] xboxfanj:
It's Qualcomm's static libraries that are the difference. The only major difference in the dalvik repo is allowing it to utilize Qualcomm's dalvik static library (libqc-dalvik). There is no similar art library, but supposedly, using qcom dalvik improves ART too because they're inter connected. Everything is compiled with the same GCC 4.7.
[Nexus 5 General] cellsafemode:
There is no way to know from the ROM what GCC was used. It isn't reported anywhere. They almost certainly aren't using aosp tool chains. Aosp is too poorly maintained with missing features, outdated dependencies and programs and prebuilts. And you can't infer from kernel what compiler was used in ROM.

All aosp is good for any more is the core parts of android that you can't get elsewhere. Everything else is either a mess or revenants from froyo code. A reference only, not intended for use directly unless you like slow, half implemented and broken parts all in your ROM.
[Nexus 5 General] mojna37:
thank you very much!
[Nexus 5 General] xboxfanj:
AOSP is maintained enough to release devices based on it (N5). CAF does use AOSP toolchains (GCC 4.7), you can see if you look at the source. Also, the library itself says GCC: (GNU) 4.7, so no different GCC. A lot of libraries actually do say which GCC they're built with.
[Nexus 5 General] Kristi-Tech:
I did flashed the revert to stock zip file because i want to use ART but it doesn't work :confused:

When i select ART, the phone restarts and then its just the same, running on Dalvik. Any solution?
[Nexus 5 General] :
Hi,

You use Xposed Framework, right?

If yes it's normal, ART is not compatible with Xposed stuff so to avoid bootloops the Runtime is still set to Dalvik.

The revert zip files nor the patches affects the runtime, even with the patches you can use ART runtime without any issue.

:)
[Nexus 5 General] Kristi-Tech:
How did you went back to ART? I'm having problems

---------- Post added at 03:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:01 PM ----------

Yes, Im using Xposed Framework ....so thats the cause :(
[Nexus 5 General] :
Yes, nothing related to these patches..., http://xdaforums.com/showpost.php?p=50163642&postcount=478.

You'll need to make a choice, ART runtime or Xposed :p :D

In any case if you decide to use ART runtime (so without Xposed stuff) you can use the patches from here, no issue switching from Dalvik to ART and vice versa.

:)
[Nexus 5 General] tien113:
ART is not a good choice at the moment. We should use davik.
[Nexus 5 General] :
Hi,

Ok, thanks for this useful and detailed information... ;)

Maybe it would be a better place here: Switching runtime between Dalvik and ART or there Dedicated Runtime Thread (ART vs Dalvik).

:)
[Nexus 5 General] GodSlayer:
Can I install it on stock (ODEXED)?
[Nexus 5 General] :
Hi,

Yes... It has been reported working on odexed rom also.

Make a Nandroid backup first, just in case.

:)
[Nexus 5 General] vipinbp:
Works flawlessly Bro.. I flashed it just a couple of days back..
[Nexus 5 General] EeWin:
Hi guys , I have a question here :

I know whenever we clean /dirty flash a rom , we need to flash this patch.

But ,do we need to reflash this patch everytime we dirty flash custom kernel / gapps ?

Note : I reflash this everytime I dirty flash nightly custom kernels. Kinda lazy to do it every night , so just ask to get some clarification.
[Nexus 5 General] :
Hi,

Custom kernel and Gapps nope, no need to reflash them. It's not on the kernel or Gapps side.

:)
[Nexus 5 General] sjondenon:
Should I flash both bionic and dalvik when I'm using dalvik (not ART)?
[Nexus 5 General] EeWin:
Dalvik alone is enough unless you are on stock rom.
[Nexus 5 General] :
Hi,

What rom?

If stock rom flash boths. If another rom, check the features/changelog of your current rom to see if these patches are already included or if there is some Dalvik/Bionic optimizations from AOSP for example.

If there is already some Dalvik/Bionic optimizations, in term of General UI, maybe it's not necessary,for benches try and see...

For example I use Purity rom and this rom is already optimized about Dalvik and Bionic from AOSP and Code Aurora, it's not the same thing as the patches here (closed sources from Qualcomm). In term of smootheness, responsiveness there is no gain but in benches there is a little improvement, so...

It depends of what you want and what is your rom... Better is to test and see by yourself, also read the last pages.

:)
[Nexus 5 General] sjondenon:
Thank you for your fast responses, I'm running stock 4.4.2 so I should flash both. Thanks!
[Nexus 5 General] :
Hi,

After the Moto X 4.4.2, The HTC One GPE 4.4.2, here's in attachment the Dalvik and Bionic files from the Galaxy SIV GPE 4.4.2 if you want to test... :D

Files included:

[I][B]Dalvik bin files:[/B][/I]
-dalvikvm
-dexopt
-installd (for CM compatibility)

[I][B]Dalvik lib files:[/B][/I]
-libcutils.so
-libdvm.so
-libqc-opt.so

[I][B]Bionic lib files:[/B][/I]
-libc.so
-libm.so

In general UI no differences withe the ones from the OP or the others I posted (mentioned above), but in benches it seems there is a little difference (but not sure, needs to be confirmed as I tested quickly)...

Files removed, wrong upload...

:)
[Nexus 5 General] Seiro:
Dalvik+Bionic

Awesome
[Nexus 5 General] Citizen_Snips:
Flashing the S4 patches actually dropped my benchmark scores by an average of about 5,000.

Then again I am on a custom ROM and I think the developers baked some of these patches in the ROM already. Probably just conflicting with things. Actual device doesn't seem affected by them at all, good or bad, during real world usage.
[Nexus 5 General] :
Hi,

5 000 less, in what benchmark???

What rom?
[Nexus 5 General] Citizen_Snips:
Antutu Benchmark. 2/16 release of Mahdi ROM. I also use Bricked kernel. No other mods / patches were flashed. Just whatever was baked in the ROM.
[Nexus 5 General] :
Ok, and the score? Because 5 000 less without a reference score... ave you a screenshot of the deatiled score in Antutu (Multitask, Runtime, CPU Integer CPU float-point and RAM Operation).

I even mixed them for testing purpose (with the ones in the OP), even here no drop in score. Tested Antutu/Quadrant/JBench/CfBench, maybe the same as the others (due to a few points of fluctuation), yes, but no decreases. Not they could decrease the score in Antutu :confused:

I use Purity rom (already Dalvik/Bionic optmized from AOSP) and the scores are fine, better than without at least.

:)
[Nexus 5 General] Citizen_Snips:
My average score (based on 3 BM's) was, we'll say an even 36K for the sake of argument. I even hit 37K, but we're using my average here. This is after flashing Mahdi + PA stock gapps + Bricked kernel and installing just about 100 user apps. All Bricked kernel settings stock.

After the S4 patches, my average (again, taken from 3 BM's) was 31K. It never even hit 32K once. I run my benchmarks after a fresh reboot, after the OS finishes booting/loading. No other apps in the background, etc. I run them at cool temps so the phone won't get thermal throttled too.

I think it's been proven time and time again in this thread... Your mileage may vary. Some users report better results and some worse. No offense, but most of this thread is just a debate on whether or not these even do anything.

I wasn't trying to offend you... But the S4 patches DID lower my benchmarks, no question about it.

I literally made no change. I saw the updated S4 ones, ran some tests, got my average, flashed them and tested again.
[Nexus 5 General] :
No worries, it weren't about that ;).

I just try to understand why you encounter such a drop in Antutu, because, at least for mr, with exactly all the same settings and with the rom/kernel I use I have no decrease in score compared to the patches in the OP... weird :confused:

Or I made a mistake in the upload and it's a version with some stock files from the N5 (bad mixe :p), If it's the case, sorry because I have something like 15 zip files plus all the files in different folders on my PC... Too lazzy for today to check again.

:)

EDIT: oh well, there is something wrong, just downloaded the ones from my post to test and yes the score decreased (the one I used before are from my PC directly, I thought it was good, I mean uploaded the right ones I used), ****! :confused:

I removed them, I will check later... Too much tests, files and mixes :p... Sorry again and thanks for the feedback :)
[Nexus 5 General] Citizen_Snips:
You uploaded stock files? That may be why lol. Well upload the correct ones when you get around to it and I will gladly test!
[Nexus 5 General] :
Nope or not sure :D, or maybe a mix with stock/S4 files maybe :D. I test before uplaod (like for the HTC One or Moto X 4.4.2) but it seems that here I missed something, it can happen... :angel:

Need a break for today :)
[Nexus 5 General] Citizen_Snips:
Maybe today then :)
[Nexus 5 General] :
Hi,

For sure, in attachment.

This time it's 100% sure that these ones are the right files uploaded. But I have not tested again to see if it's the previous upload or my tests that were with the wrong files.

So if your benches are lower it's due to the SIV files..., If you can try one, then another and vice versa then both to see if there is a lower score... and eventually found the culprit.

:)