yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Xperia Z1 General] xplod2841:
There are two possibilities; Sony CAN'T create a decent algorithm or Sony DOESN'T WANT to create one :D If they're planning to launch another device (Z2 for example) they're probably planning to use the same sensor but better algorithm so the users can see that Z2 has better camera than Z1.

Btw. if they don't fix it, is it possible to use a 3rd party camera application to get better results? Is it possible to get more from that sensor? Or is it kernel/firmware related? For example, my X10 had a lot of noise on images and then I tried Vignette; the best few dollars spent ever! This app makes 100x better images than the stock Camera app. When I zoomed the same image taken with Vignette and stock one, the stock's one got so distorted with lot of noise while Vignette's one remained almost as clear as not zoomed. And Vignette performs a lot better on the same device in low-light conditions than stock one. As soon as I get my Z1 I'll try Vignette and stock one.

And yes, as somebody stated previous, that manual mode is not helpful at all. I want from my camera to be very fast. So I notice something and I want in 5-10 seconds to be able to pull phone out, open camera and take a photo. While I configure manual mode, the thing I want to picture is gone :D
[Xperia Z1 General] neilmc1983:
Here's some low light pictures i took this weekend with the G2. No flash and in 10mp Auto mode.

It's a bit harsh to call them crap.

CAM00084 by NeilMc1983, on Flickr

CAM00074 by NeilMc1983, on Flickr
[Xperia Z1 General] neilmc1983:
Totally agree...

Some pictures on the Z1 i've taken are far superior to the G2 or S4, then others look like absolutely horrendous. It's so hit and miss.

Yesterday when i was taking the pictures of the lego man, the Z1 was the only phone which struggled to focus on it, i got it right on the 5th attempt.

I'm sure the 20mp sensor is a great piece of hardware, but Sony just can't get the best out of it.

It's so frustrating as the hardware is there, its just the software side letting it down, which is fixable.
[Xperia Z1 General] gioiellino:
the great hardware is the only hope we have .. the right software will come.
[Xperia Z1 General] TheCraig:
We've had about two software updates, it can be improved heavily.
[Xperia Z1 General] dagrim1:
It can be, it should be... And I truely hope it will be!

It's too bad they haven't put more effort in it in the first release, being their flagship device and the camera being a big selling point it shouldn't need these updates in the first place.

About the G2 pics, it amazes me how well it does with higher ISO values (as in those 2 examples, ISO 800 and 900... Produces very decent pics. Love the Opera House one.)
[Xperia Z1 General] Ramsey:
Your night time pictures taken by G2 look better than the ones from reviews, interesting.

What if you take them in manual mode? Can you get better results?

Also, I am wondering how they would look if they were taken from another application. I notice that LG has implemented a heavy noise reduction but I think it's too much. Instead, they should have allowed for a bit more sharpness and a tiny bit of noise so that it would look better in night time and even in day light. Some details tend to be washed out due to that noise reduction and post processing effect.
[Xperia Z1 General] gioiellino:
mmm.. we can install G2 camera app to Z1??
[Xperia Z1 General] neilmc1983:
Here's the APK, doubt you'll be able to port it to the Z1 though.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/mhsygygyl9cue0u/LGCameraApp.apk
[Xperia Z1 General] dagrim1:
I actually tried installing the camera from this thread (LG Camera ported to AOSP G2 rom):

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=2522889

And it actually (kinda) works... Can take pictures (iso values are ignored and all, some things make it crash... but it IS possible to shoot pics).
[Xperia Z1 General] neilmc1983:
Cool!!! Can you upload some samples?
[Xperia Z1 General] dagrim1:
Srry, not at the moment, but it's nothing special... Same results as with the Z1 native app. Guess the sharpening, etc is done at another level and not in the camera app (some tweaking is possible, but not everything).
[Xperia Z1 General] neilmc1983:
Ah ok thanks for the info :)
[Xperia Z1 General] omnius1:
Do I really need to point out to you that many of these guys all basically just do a polly wanna cracker routine and mindlessly parrot what each other says? If I had as much spare time to waste as you just to make a point I could also easily dig up just as many reputable reviews that make my point look better. Or equally critical of the G2.

You've tunnel visioned your view of this phone down to one single aspect (cam), rather than stepping back and looking at each device's merits in a bigger overall picture of all features and performance. If I wanted a plasticky phone with a gaudy UI that can't decide whether it's gingerbread or Jellybean, I'd just buy an S4 because at least Samsung is a company on equal grounds with Sony. There's really not as big of a deal with camera differences as you make it out to be, and frankly from what I've seen, your Xperia has an f'd up display because not too many people seem to be having your issues here. Not to mention those rear buttons. What dimwit at LG thought that was a great idea? "hey guys, let's put buttons in a spot that you can't reach when it's on a flat surface or in a car dock! Brilliant!" :highfive:

It's not too bad, but it's still a gingerbean plasticky phone with a useless button placement gimmick that pretty much blatantly copycats Samnsung without the muscle of Samsung as a company and was soundly one-upped by the Note 3 anyway. I've also found that LG's call and data radios are cheap and poor in reception.
[Xperia Z1 General] zegun:
well the Z1 does have a BIONZ processor inside to handle the camera post-processing and stuffs... remember? that's why Z1 heats up really fast if you're taking pictures in a hot humid tropical country
[Xperia Z1 General] xplod2841:
He tested the camera because it's the main feature of Z1 and it's important that the camera is better than on other phones (except Lumia 1020 and maybe Galaxy S4 Zoom). Z1 has it pros and cons, G2 has it pros and cons, but camera should be advantage, not disadvantage on Z1.

And yes, I totally agree about these keys on G2. The main reason I didn't bought it, plus the fact that T-Mobile in my country still doesn't have it. Volume keys under the phone!? I don't hold my phone in hand while listening to music! It's usually laying on my hi-fi or in car on car-stand. So in car, I should take it off from the stand just to change volume!? For camera as well, the way we're used to hold our phones while taking pictures makes it impossible to reach the volume rocker for zooming, at least mine holding. And Z1 looks way better an expensier because it's glass, aluminium frame and the design itself. The only good thing about design on G2 are small bezels.
[Xperia Z1 General] dagrim1:
Yeah, was just wondering if the LG app might have something additional... Guess not :)

And so much hating on the G2! It really is an awesome phone, plasticky but that hasn't really ever bothered me that much (though I prefer a more solid material). And the buttons on the back are no issue for me either, you can turn it on by double-tapping the screen so there goes the need for a power button and the volume buttons... well... in my user case scenario I hardly use em either like that.

But the screen is excellent, battery is excellent, connection strength is excellent (beating the Z1 in these areas imo) and the size is excellent (and putting the buttons on the back contributes to that). Sure, software is not the strongest point to say the least, let alone support from LG, but at least you can flash custom roms without breaking the camera meaning I have pure 4.3.2 running on it already. Something we can only hope sony will ever fix.

Sure, the Z1 is also great but it does have it's weak/weaker points... Wether or not these points are dealbreakers is up to the user but apparently for a number of users they are, (though the comments always seem s blakc and white, *screen is utter crap! no it is awesome! the camera is the worst ever and useless! No it beats DSLR!* There are grey areas too...
[Xperia Z1 General] gioiellino:
installed G2 camera apk.

i make only one test but G2 camera software seem more good than Z1

take foto in manual mode 13mp vs 21mp

z1 photo is soft and blur (FOCUS PROBLEM)

G2 photo are clear and when zoom is clear t

for me.. we have a big hardware but a bad software.

i will make other test outdoor ..
[Xperia Z1 General] neilmc1983:
Thats very interesting, thanks for the great images. the G2 app pictures have less blur, more sharper with less noise.

If you haev time, could you post some more pics of both apps? thanks mate :)
[Xperia Z1 General] dagrim1:
Is that with the modded/AOSP version I posted? Or did you install another G2 camera app... But only one test isn't anything really.
[Xperia Z1 General] karrouma:
test is not fair

first of all ta take the picture from the same point and focus in the same place,

second the picture taken by the lg g2 have lower height than the z1

third the z1 pic is taken from another point than 2 and difference settings.

i think a person who know how to take pic from the z1 cam have more powerful and natural pictures
[Xperia Z1 General] xplod2841:
This is a phone, not a DSLR. Person who knows how to take a picture won't use his phone. He will use DSLR or at least decent camera. The most important thing is the auto mode. It must work perfectly to call phone's camera a good camera. I don't know what ISO and all those fancy words in photohrapgy means. I just want to be able to take my phone out, open camera and take a picture, all that i a few seconds, without adjusting anything (only initial set-up when I buy or factory reset the phone). Personaly, I'd probably never use manual mode because I don't know how to use it :D

As I stated somewhere before, my X10 was taking far better pictures with Vignette than with stock app. Vignette also has a lot of options (before and after taking pictures) and my friend managed once to edit already taken image in very dark, to be almost like taken with camera with flash. But Vignete is also a pretty slow app, at least on X10. It takes some time to load, and after taking picture, it takes a lot of time only to save the picture that I'm available to take picture again. Even worse is that when it saves the photo, than it processes it in the background and sometimes takes a few minutes for a 3-4 photos. Too long :/ And in that way I missed lots of great moments which I wanted to take photo of. But at least, even without manual mode and adjusting anything, Vignette's pictures are far better than stock app's. But stock app is a lot faster and I didn't like the fact that I have to make a compromise between speed and quality. I was hoping from Z1 to get both.
[Xperia Z1 General] Ramsey:
I remember using Vignette on my Galaxy S1 and it does work way better than stock cam app as it allows the camera to take raw pictures that aren't compressed. The stock camera apps compress the images to reduce file size. Not fair, in my opinion. It would be great if someone could post a picture of their Z1 and G2 cameras using Vignette and Camera360 apps, as both are capable of pretty good uncompressed photos.
[Xperia Z1 General] gioiellino:
uhmmmm...
[Xperia Z1 General] wezzel98765:
From clicking on the4 thumbnails, the g2 and z1 quality looks EXACTLY the same?
[Xperia Z1 General] gioiellino:
yes, they are nearly equal

the difference is seen zooming, the zoom predominately capacity of z1 creates black spots in the picture, while on the G2 is all in one color.
[Xperia Z1 General] wezzel98765:
you need to upload to flickr so that we can see full res image for that
[Xperia Z1 General] ApriliaM3:
I've had a cleanup here guys and I don't want to be returning for the same reasons.

Keep your posts on-topic and civil... If you have an issue with what someone has posted, press the report button.

If you cannot abide by the above, don't bother posting here.
[Xperia Z1 General] gioiellino:
i have installed apk posted by dagrim1

in attach full res images
[Xperia Z1 General] Gitaroo:
does that G2 camera apk require root? It doesn't effect stock camera app right? I want to try it.
[Xperia Z1 General] neilmc1983:
Here's the Z1, G2 and S4 using VIGNETEE app :laugh:

VIGNETEE - G2
[Xperia Z1 General] gioiellino:
dont need root, you can install apk
[Xperia Z1 General] xplod2841:
Even with Vignette seems that S4 and G2 took a better photo :( At least from my point of view: Z1's photo is too dark and the background is noisy.
[Xperia Z1 General] omnius1:
So let me get this straight... you obsessed in dozens of posts across multiple threads over the Z1 camera and you're only now discovering that photos you take will look different when viewed on different screens? I can't be reading this right.
[Xperia Z1 General] neilmc1983:
No my friend, I'm just realising the screen is much worse than i first thought.
[Xperia Z1 General] neilmc1983:
I would get attacked if i agreed with you :(
[Xperia Z1 General] omnius1:
So it's true then. I'm sorry but I find it hard to take any talk about imaging seriously from someone who isn't even aware of the basic fact that images look differently when viewed on a PC instead of a phone.

Not sure why you'er keeping the Z1 so long after you clearly dislike it though. That's like leaving a pebble in your shoe just so you have something to ache about.

Mine's awesome, sorry about your bad luck :good:
[Xperia Z1 General] Ramsey:
Do you know how to find out which Z1 has a good screen and which doesn't ? I am coming to the conclusion that Sony has produced more than one type of display.. That's not cool at all.

Is there a serial number or something to find out what screen type is in each Z1? Just in case I decide to buy Z1 over G2 for my wife.
[Xperia Z1 General] omnius1:
The G2 has a slightly better display, nothing huge or anything to get worked up over unless you're disturbed or something though lol. Overall combination of looks, features, and software the Z1 is a nicer phone.
[Xperia Z1 General] xplod2841:
We all are complaining because we're aware that we have great hardware, a true beast, in terms of everything (battery, chipset, camera) but half of that hardware is not used properly. And we'll continue to complain as long as Sony doesn't fix this fact :D I was aware of all that facts and I still bought Z1 because I believe in it and I believe in Sony, that they will fix all those issues.
[Xperia Z1 General] neilmc1983:
Exactly my friend!

I hope this post shows that the issue is just software and it can be fixed. then the Z1 WILL have the best camera (like Sony promised)
[Xperia Z1 General] Gitaroo:
yeah, I do complain a lot about my Z1 too, only mainly the camera which I am suuuuuuure as hell its the software and can be fixed
[Xperia Z1 General] One Twelve:
He meant video in low light and frame rate dropping. What will LG do about that ?

The still camera does fine in low light.

I notice no firmware info on any of the exifs for LG photos. Curious.

---------- Post added at 03:16 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:08 AM ----------

Slightly better ? c'mon...

I'd say the main selling point about the LG is its screen. Its very good.

Dunno if it was you or somebody else that went on about LG being a budget electronics company. The G2's screen is not budget.

---------- Post added at 03:25 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:16 AM ----------

It's not about defending the Z1, rather about holding people accountable to what they claim. When they say so & so can take better shots. it's put up or hearsay. You'd be amazed how many go quiet after a simple challenge like that. You've taken 100s of shots. you know what you're talking about. So show evidence, can't be that hard now surely.

When strong words like awful, terrible, horrible, atrocious, fail of the decade get used one expects evidence that will back those assertions.

You know what i think. Whenever i see words like that, i think hypeberole, why use those words. Is your case strong or not. Can't be strong. In none of the cases i've looked at here do those words qualify at all. Could it be better ? oh yeah. How much better ? this is the question.

Why are people disappointed ? they heard ooh its 20.7MP that has to be twice as good. Then when it turns out it isn't twice as good, its about as good as others they say we were misled. How can a phone camera be head and shoulders above its generation ? There's only one case i know of and that the 808. Lead its generation by a distance that's yet to be matched since. But its bulky, not like the others. It has a dead os so nobody wants it.

I've learnt to ignore reviews because they're not comprehensive, ignore the hearsay. Just look at the gallery section of any camera on this board and you will see what the camera can or cannot do. It takes just one decent photo and a clued up user to counter a 100 naysayers. It's that easy.
[Xperia Z1 General] omnius1:
You know what Twelve? You're right. I was too harsh in that statement. It is a good screen and LG has come a long way since the old days when Goldstar had such a bad rep. But I also agree with you that words like "shocking bad" or "huge" are also just as extreme.
[Xperia Z1 General] Rocker_geek:
lol Sony fanboys seem to be worse than Apple fanboys. Sony needs to fire their developers. These things are only tarnishing the Sony brand. I really want Sony to succeed but they keep making mistakes like this. I'm disappointed. They make great hardware but the software is worse than those Mediatek Chinese phones. Fire those idiots and hire American or Japanese developers. Sony is digging it's own grave as of now.
[Xperia Z1 General] neilmc1983:
I just downloaded some G2 images from GSMarena and the exifs didn't have any firmware info too? odd

I haven't tried the video function in low light yet, but the 1080p 60fps feature is impressive.

How do you find the 1080p recordings on the Z1?
[Xperia Z1 General] omnius1:
Thank you for your meaningful contribution as your second post on XDA. Welcome to the forums.
[Xperia Z1 General] One Twelve:
Sign of a company that isn't big into firmware updates ?

Low light it drops to 11fps. Its unusable.

I wonder if this is only at 1080p, or whether it gets better at 720p.

From what i've seen & heard its ok. No complaints.

It's the Z1's still camera that seems to generate the most heat with people :D
[Xperia Z1 General] xplod2841:
Don't start those discussions about fanboys again, moderators will get angry :D I'll only reply to this part (because it's ontopic):

No, we haven't expected miracles, we simply expected better results than any concurent phone (except some Lumias) because better sensor. It's simple: better hardware = better results! Amen! This is how it must be. There's NO excuse for software fails. A cheap Chinese no-name brand can alow itself poor software product but a brand like Sony can't because it's a big shame. As long as G2, SGS4 and all other phones with older and smaller sensors can achieve the same result as Z1, Sony should consider fixing this as soon as possible because they obviously failed to achieve what they promised us. Why Apple, Samsung and LG can have talented developers who are creating miracles of algorithms and Sony can't ? Why? Is that hard to find a good workers and developers? And if you think that we have reached maximum for phone's cameras, then I'll ask another question: then why did Sony put such a great, expensive and big sensor? If it can take the same pictures like all others with 13 mpx smaller sensors, why didn't Sony put that same smaller sensor, to get the same results, but make phone smaller, and less heavier? Why? Larger senzor = larger phone = larger bezels = much better results. If the resutls are the same, then FAIL! We sacrificed the heaviness and bezels size for nothing.

The key to success today is software optimization. That is the most important thing. The target is to create as cheap, light and small as possible phone, with as much as possible optimized software to get the maximum from hardware and to minimize battery consuption as much as possible. Having a great sensor with only half of its potential used is just a waste of sensor, hardware and space. Sony created huge, heavy and expensive phone with monstruous hardware and expectations from us must be high. LG created smaller and cheaper phone but it beats Z1 in almost everything (display, battery, and even camera). How is that possible?

Don't get me wrong; I don't need a ultra-quality camera! I was very happy with my X10's camera and Z1's camera will probably be much more than I need. But the logic is simple; if I pay for a phone that is advertised as cameraphone, than this phone must be better than other "normal" phones, even if I don't need such a good camera.
[Xperia Z1 General] neilmc1983:
I've seen a MOD for the low light fps issue in the G2 section, i've not had an LG phone before so i'm not sure how good they are on fixing issues and releasing firmwares quickly?
[Xperia Z1 General] wezzel98765:
I see what you did there ;)

Any news on any form of update with camera improvements ;)?

To be honest, let's all be honest... without zooming in, the pictures are ... on the whole, very good

If you need to zoom in, just get closer ;)

muahaha

---------- Post added at 10:45 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:42 PM ----------

To be fair, Sony do quote on their page

"Xperia Z1 gives you the best overall image quality of all leading smartphones"

Now, the sales of goods act could potentially come in to play .... goods not as described etc ;)

http://www.sonymobile.com/gb/products/phones/xperia-z1/
[Xperia Z1 General] neilmc1983:
Most other flag ship phones use Sony's 8mp or 13mp sensors, yet they can get better results from them than Sony!!

The SCARY thing is Sony will most likely sell the 20.7mp sensor to other vendors in the future, then THEY will get better results from it than the Z1 can. :eek:
[Xperia Z1 General] neilmc1983:
Sony actually quoted that?? Jesus!

Maybe some camera improvements come with the 4.3 / 4.4 updates?
[Xperia Z1 General] wezzel98765:
In my opinion, a VERY silly thing for them to do, especially with such strong competition! My brothers iPhone 5s is definitely better than my Z1 in all light. We love to have "shoot outs",
[Xperia Z1 General] Rocker_geek:
Yes, and the weird thing is, Sony cameras kills Samsung cameras any day. The camera software development team is very good. On the other hand, the Xperia development team seems like a bunch of idiots. I've had major complaints with them since the Xperia V SOD issue. It got fixed so late it's embarrassing.
[Xperia Z1 General] One Twelve:
Its ok, the keyword in there is 'overall' :cowboy:

DXO gives them that.
[Xperia Z1 General] neilmc1983:
And the irony is?.......the iPhone 5s uses a Sony sensor!! :silly:

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-57603805-37/iphone-5s-teardown-new-sony-camera-sensor-inside/
[Xperia Z1 General] neilmc1983:
Good point, i have a Sony point and shoot and it was a multi award winning camera and the reviews of the NEX line are amazing.

Why don't they ask that department to sort out the camera on the Z1?
[Xperia Z1 General] wezzel98765:
They could just let Apple make the software for the Z1 camera as a trade for Sony's 8MP cam? ;)