yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro General] rusha:
I'm very impressed with everyone's collaboration on this one. You've done some amazing things already.

I'd like to try this out (and get involved once I'm set up). At the moment I'm "stuck" with a 2gb SD card. What's the issue exactly at the moment with the 1gb limit? Any fundamental problems when it comes to increasing this? Any temporary workarounds?

Thanks guys.
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro General] otimov:
Hi

i have a few questions...(in very bad english...sorry)

You are gurus .....i'm "normal" so may be some questions are "stupid question" but i read 16 pages of this post and i would like to understand better....

:oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops:

1) all linux files must be resident in a sd card formatted with different partition (http://www.handhelds.org/moin/moin.cgi/BlueAngel)

Does this means that is not necessary to remove or delete the original WM5 files in Universal rom?

2) does this means that is easy to restart universal with the original operating system (microsoft) ? and how ?

3) i have linux running on my laptop....how to connect the sd card to perform the format and the partition? do i have to connect the universal with the card inserted or do i have to connect with other device (usb card reader)? how to mount the card ?

4) does linux works in universal with vga resolution?

thanks

ciao
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro General] cr2:
Somebody has posted on the ipaq hx4700 mailing list

about the problems with his card. We use the same

SD/MMC driver.
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro General] cr2:
You run Linux as if it was a windows program from the SD card. The "original" data is neither used nor affected in

any way.

By typing "reboot" on a command prompt in Linux (good), or by pressing a soft reset button (not very good).

Use the usb cardreader, or the builtin cardreader (some of them are supported by linux).

Usually it will show up as a SCSI disk in your system.

Only a wince user can ask such question :shock:

Linux runs at the available LCD hardware resolution,

in case of the universal 480x640, i.e. VGA.

If it was 2048x1536, Linux would have run with that resolution.
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro General] vve:
Sorry, I'm not a guru :( but i hope my little experience may be helpful for you...

Generally, not. If you want to play with kernel only, you can start it from existing wince storage, without even card inserted. For GUI (i.e. Opie), however, you really should have a kernel filesystem on SD.

Exactly so.

By good old Soft Reset.

There are a lot of ways to create a EXTx partition and make filesystem on it. Personally I (since I didn't have a cardreader that time) did this "onboard", on Universal itself. The general steps are:

1. Copy the files that needed to boot kernel to some directory in device's internal storage.

2. Run harret and boot kernel.

3. Use starnard Linux utilities (fdisk, mke2fs) to partition your card, make filesystems and, if required, transfer files from wince partitions (mount, cp/mv).

The correct command line to start with is:

fdisk /dev/mmc/blk0/disc .

Yes.

2cr2

Sorry, guru :)
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro General] cr2:
Some kind person has put an Xserver on the initrd,

but no other programs :)

I think we can create a config script that will do it

without the user interaction.
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro General] cr2:
It is a known bug, the volume control does not work

on hx4700 too:

http://handhelds.org/moin/moin.cgi/HpIpaqHx4700HowtoInstallLinux
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro General] vve:
Yes, but we have to use sfdisk or parted instead of fdisk in this case.

Till now, I haven't found any "ready for use" root filesystem that ever includes sfdisk or the one with working parted :(.

P.S. Is it possible to find or create a base package of precompiled development tools (gcc etc.) that could be used to build things "onboard"?

It would be very useful - for me at least.

P.P.S. Please make the precompiled version of your latest kernel available for community - everybody in here is waiting to test it, I think :).
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro General] goxboxlive:
@Cr2

What is the the module 'htcuniversal_wlan' ? What does it do?

Of course i know it is for the WiFi network card, but does it work?

I compiled it as a module and modprobed it in to the kernel and a lot of messages happend on the screen, like mem adress and so on. But when i try to run 'ifconfig' and 'iwconfig' nothing shows up, only the usual.

What is the name of the interface? Is it wlan, ath0 eth1 or something else?

Do i have to download this file http://sdgsystems.com/pub/ipaq/hx4700/src/wireless.tar.gz from SDG systems and compile it to get it to work?

Or does it not work at all?

And another thing, where do i put this?

I tried to put it in to the '/etc/sysconfig/bluetooth' but it seem like it's getting loaded before the bluetooth module is getting loaded. You mention something about it could be written in a script in '/etc/init.d/*' but wich script, and if it is the bluetooth script, how do define it. I want this to happend automaticly so i don't need to run 'hciattach /dev/ttyS1 texas 115200' everytime i'm booting.

Thx .
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro General] cr2:
It is a debug module that detects the wifi control registers and tests if the chip is there. And it is there :)

It does not work, because it is not yet clear how

to access the transmit/receive descriptors,

because this memory area is not mapped.

It will be wlan0 when it will work.

Then you need to put something into /etc/modutils

and run update-modules (look into /etc/modules)
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro General] cr2:
phone.

I have managed to get some response from the

phone after phone_reset, but don't be too excited:

root@blueangel:~# chat -v -s -S -f pho < /dev/ttyS0 > /dev/ttyS0
send (^B^VATE1;ATQ1;ATV1^M^J^V^B^M)
expect (ready)
^@AT-Command Interpreter ready
-- got it
send (ATE1;ATQ1;ATV1^M^J^M)
expect (OK)
4

uucp@blueangel:/home/root$ cu -l /dev/ttyS0 -s 115200
Connected.
[WCDMA] DOG (dog: ATS:00000)<x<xx<x<x
Error Fatal dog: ATS 0
DEBUGMSG 99
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro General] otimov:
cr2 very good idea

i'm waiting.. :D
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro General] goxboxlive:
I ahve done all that. I created a file called 'htcuniversal_bt' in the /etc/modutils and probed it in. After that i ran 'update-modules' so the BT module should be loaded automaticly, but the problem is that it is probed after the /etc/sysconfig/bluetoth file is initalized.
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro General] cr2:
You can install full debian-arm distribution

http://www.debian.org
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro General] cr2:
Hmm. The module should be autoloaded when the

hcitool tries to open /dev/ttyS1.

I will look into that issue, given some free time.
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro General] cr2:
I think they are available in debian.

One more useful link

http://pocketworkstation.org
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro General] goxboxlive:
Is it realy doable? Can i just download the debian-arm cd and install it on my Universal (havent a clue how to install it from cdrom)?

Will it run Xorg with the available drivers you gyus ahve developed?
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro General] pasztorl:
1. boot with current opie filesystem for example

2. download debian-arm debootstrap and wget and extract it to your sdcard

3. run debootstrap on the universal

I tried Xorg with fb driver but it does a segfault for me :(

I'am using Xfbdev placed on current rootfs.
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro General] madkat:
Damnit, I so need to get back into Assembler. I'd love to write a little bootloader that probes the SDCard for bootable data and falls back to Windows if it finds nothing. Could then mess with CE 5 @ 640x480 amongst other things. Back in the Dark Days of DOS I used to mess with boot sectors & ROMs all the time. Once reflashed my video card's BIOS with a different font :lol:

This project makes me think that maybe Apple have missed a trick. If you can run Linux on the Universal, you can probably run BSD. And therefore you can probably run MacOS X. Already there's PowerPC and x86 versions of MacOS X, they'd be quids in if they made an ARM4 port and made it cheap.
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro General] karesz2000:
ftp.xda-developers.com/Uploads/Universal/Universal LINUX Dev

Has anyone looked into the following folder:

ftp.xda-developers.com/Uploads/Universal/Universal LINUX Development

I tested the rar password and it's ok.

rar pwd:

PU10 Intel PXA270 QTEK 9000
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro General] madkat:
The Filenames are "Linux on PPC Developer Movies."

Given the amount of data to download (~711.6Mb, a whole CD) maybe it would help if you explained what this actually is?
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro General] lbendlin:
what do you think it is? Some &$&*%^*(& uploaded a porn movie.
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro General] pasztorl:
some development tool
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro General] vve:
Please point me to a proper path: I've simply gone astray in a tangle of that site's pages and links. Where could I find the desired stuff in there?
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro General] madkat:
See that's what I thought - which is why I decided to post a response to challenge the poster. If they'd given a suitable explanation, we'd all know it was simply a poorly named file. Bizarre how they lurked for ages before this though.
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro General] pasztorl:
http://www.us.debian.org/ports/arm/
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro General] vve:
I may be a fool but what link should I click to download something we talk about from there?
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro General] cr2:
http://packages.debian.net

and use the search.
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro General] vve:
Is is possible to get it in a single package file?
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro General] madkat:
I guess if you can get a proper network connection to the device you could try the "Businesscard" (40Mb) NetInst image

http://www.us.debian.org/CD/netinst/

though you still need to get this data into a bootable/readable format on an SDCard.

loadlin, anyone?
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro General] goxboxlive:
Cr2:

Phone support (htcuniversal_phone.h htcuniversal_phone.c) ? Have you made a call yet)

I am updating from cvs now, going to try it.
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro General] lbendlin:
my apologies. it just looked fishy
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro General] madkat:
To my surprise it is a dev tool - CodeWarrior, specifically. We use it where I work for our Symbian and Palm development.

However, it is pirate software and should be removed from the FTP site.

(I just downloaded the first RAR and checked the file contents, I wasn't trying to get a porn movie :-P)
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro General] cr2:
It is only the beginning, and the goal is to test the

AT commands on /dev/ttyS0 . The actual phone operation is

much more complex and not yet researched

properly.
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro General] cr2:
Define "it" :) I needed the "cu" package, so i have downloaded it, used "ar" to split the package,

and unpacked the "data.tar.gz" to /.

It you are interested in the packages included

onto OpenEmbedded, then look at their feeds.

There is an "ipkg" tool to install/update over the net.
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro General] madkat:
To be fair, when you've got a working base system it would probably be rather nice if you could provide us with "it" in an easy-to-handle format and give some simple to follow installation instructions which don't involve any Linux CLI work. While I understand a lot of the low level stuff in a PC and know a lot of M$ stuff inside out, Linux is fairly alien to me and I get stuck if it gets more complex than putting a CD into a machine & configuring the display & NICs. Altering a partition table by hand I can do. Installing Linux from the command line I can't.

Certainly there is very little point in putting together a "starter pack" at this point in the Linux-for-Universal Development - but please keep in mind that a lot of people will see it as a viable alternative to WM (with more software which is freely available and 640x480 native resolution instead of that crappy emulated 320x240!!!) What you have here could be big news, if it's made accessible to the common user. If you make it easy for people to get it onto their device, they will support one another - and some of them will actually learn stuff about Linux and be able to solve their own problems. If you keep it inaccessible and complex, only fanatics will install it and very few will be able to take advantage of all this stirling work that you've been doing.
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro General] cr2:
I have physically disassembled the Universal

and here is the missing hardware information:

bluetooth: BRF6150

power management: MAX1587A

touchscreen: TSC2046

Conclusions:

1. we can do 921600 bluetooth with the tools from hx4700

http://www.handhelds.org/moin/moin.cgi/HpIpaqHx4700Drivers

hciattach -S /etc/bluetooth/TIInit_3.2.26.bts ttyS1 texas

2. The touschscreen driver needs some debugging.

3. DO NOT use the htcuniversal_power module.

We can learn about the power management support at

http://www.handhelds.org/moin/moin.cgi/HpIpaqHx2000
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro General] cr2:
Yes, i understand it. And i don't want that others will destroy something, by using buggy and

sometimes wrong (see above) drivers.
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro General] cr2:
more hardware.

Identified a 2408W I2C eeprom used by wifi

(the same as on blueangel)

and

the IR transceiver

http://wiki.xda-developers.com/index.php?pagename=UniversalFIR
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro General] madkat:
I hope it still works when you reassemble it :-)

Is this a *standard* FIR, which can be used to remote-control other devices? Or is it non-standard like the XdaII?
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro General] goxboxlive:
I just don't understand all the hustle and bustle about Cr2 to make the kernel available to everyone. It is available.

You just have to compile it yourself. It's not that hard, even i manage that, and i am not a linux guru.

The Opie package is available at XDA ftp site (does'nt support automatic screen rotation, but you can patch it so it works) and at Milanvot's web site (has supported screen rotation). The only thing you have to do is to delete the '/lib/modules/"universal_modules" and replace them with the new compiled modules.

I also replace the 'zImage-2.6.12' in the /boot' directory with the one i have compiled.

Actually i dont know if that is requierd, i guess other can confirm it if that is requierd or not.

And to get a updated kernel you just download the latest cvs and compiled

you self a kernel. But as i do after a 'make htcuniversal_defconfig' i allways run 'make xconfig' to have support for rotated screen at the shell. You make that by adding support for 'framebuffer_console_rotation' under the section "Graphics support -> Console display driver support".

Also to compile it you need the arm compilator. You can use this one:

ftp://ftp.handhelds.org/projects/toolchain/arm-linux-gcc-3.4.1.tar.bz2

Just remember to add it to your path:

To test if it where exported you just type in shell 'arm-linux-' and hit twice on the 'tab' button on your keyboard an see if the shell is listing up a arm-linux-blablabla' or you can just type 'env' and see that the path is in the messages.

So go ahead and compile, it's not that hard.

If anyone want's it i can write down a HowTo based on the BlueAngel (and tips i got from Cr2 and Milanvot) with some Universal tricks.
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro General] EyeOfTheStorm:
Hi,

the guys at www.msmobiles.com have picked up a story about our project.

http://msmobiles.com/news.php/5059.html

I told, them some weeks ago about us, but they rejected my hint. Because of, they only write about Windows Mobile. So why, did they changed there mind??

EyeOfTheStorm
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro General] eman:
Used to run Familiar on my old HP... now I'm thinking about switching over my Universal.

Does familiar on Universal currently support A2DP Profile and does anyone know if Microsoft's Direct Push technology would be implemented in the future on linux? ... or some other type of Push Email technology supported?
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro General] madkat:
I understand everything you wrote, but many many people wouldn't. It doesn't matter how "easy" you find it. I find writing SMTP & SOCKS servers "easy" but most people wouldn't have a clue where to start.

I also don't like having to compile myself from CVS - I'd rather just download a *stable* binary which I know is built from a reasonably bug-free CVS. I can't see *any* justification for the *end user* to have to compile anything. In fact, an *end user* shouldn't have any requirement for a compiler at all.

If you read my post properly, I said that there is no point in trying to put a "starter pack" together at this time in the development. It's not in a state for *end users* to look at, really. But when it is, it's going to save a LOT of forum posts, repeated questions and repeated answers if it's made simple for people to access and use. To borrow something our MD said recently: You should be showing users how to drive, not how the engine works. Or, in this case: you should be showing people how to buckle up safely, not how to build a car. The former will save a LOT of headaches for the technically minded people and will make things easy for end users too. It's a solution which benefits everyone. Telling people they're dumb because they don't have a compiler or don't know how to use a command line interface doesn't do anything for anyone. Unless you get some perverted kick from mistakenly believing you're superior.

Right now, the best response for people who know nothing about CVS and make is "It's not ready for public consumption just yet, so please sit tight." If you know how to build the kernel from CVS then good for you. Do so, have a play. Enjoy.
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro General] goxboxlive:
Yes, you are totaly right. But i was thinking that if someone is considering to use Linux on their Universal i belive they have used or are using Linux at their computer, and therefor know how to use the shell.
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro General] madkat:
If you mean the command line interface, I think you have highlighted the reason why Linux may never be seen as a viable Desktop OS.

If you mean the GUI, I believe modern desktop environments have a minimal learning curve from Windows.

I use Windows on my PC, because I write Windows code and there's more applications available for it and they are generally - in my experience - better. (GAIM is crap, and AFAIK there is no multimessenger that can handle webcams *at all*! This is just one example of where Linux is somewhat lacking.) Windows is easy to use, and I don't have to mess about with config files & "man pages" for 30 minutes to try to reconfigure a subsystem. Linux is not a viable alternative for me or 99.99% of other computer users. There are *many* people I know who have actually switched *back* to Windows since giving XP a try.

Windows Mobile 5.0 and CE 5.0, however, have very few applications written for them in comparison to Linux. And in the case of Windows Mobile, devices with a 640x480 screen just have everything rescaled instead of really taking advantage of the characteristics of the device. I believe Linux *is* a viable alternative for this platform - but ONLY if it can be user-friendly enough. I honestly don't see why it can't be, though. The vast majority of Windows users will never even venture into Control Panel, let alone open a command prompt. Linux *needs* to be as friendly if it's to be taken seriously by the general public.
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro General] Gandihar:
Reality Check

That's all fine and good, but Linux on the Universal is barely to "It works for me" stage. They're nowhere near making it user friendly or even "stable", and frankly, they're doing enough. Not all the hardware is understood and major pieces of the OS port are cribbed from other projects. Microsoft have had years of full-time teams working on WinMo 5 and CE 5, not to mention technical docs for the hardware. Here we have a handful of programmers (I've seen two that have been doing most of the heavy lifting) and they've gotten this far in barely four months, on their own time, with minimal technical documentation. You're complaining about helping other people get around when this project is still finding its own legs.

This has almost nothing to do with a desktop OS or fighting Microsoft. These guys are doing this because they enjoy it. If they have to spend all their time hand-holding other people, they won't get power management working or the touchscreen and keyboard debugged either, let alone all the other hardware built in.

I don't even own a Universal (yet) but I'm grateful for the work they've done. I applaud the spirit they've shown for risking very expensive pieces of hardware to get to this point and I for one hope they continue. Once I do get a Universal, I'll be contributing what I can to this project, even if that is just writing in the WIKI or making HOWTOs for newbies so people like cr2 and milanvot can improve the guts of the OS and thereby help all of us who want to run Linux on the HTC Universal.
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro General] pasztorl:
clock

Has anyone problem with hardware clock?

My universal's clock late about 10 year after restart.

The hwclock -w not drop any error. Maybe the windows set up the clock when it starts?
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro General] madkat:
Re: Reality Check

Crikey, how many times must I repeat myself?

I already said (twice) that there's no point trying to make it available for end users at this point in the development. And that end users just need to sit tight and be patient, otherwise the people doing the work *will* spend all their time hand-holding.

I never said it was about "fighting Microsoft" - if you'd read, you would see that I prefer Windows as a Desktop OS and that I write Windows code. I do feel that the Linux enthusiasts who believe that you "just need to learn about the terminal" are kidding themselves if they think anyone wants to.
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro General] cr2:
Re: clock

Is it the UNIX vs. DOS epoch difference ?

Microsft innovation was in using 1980 instead of

1970.

I have seen a small battery on the motherboard

(soldered in), probably it serves the RTC.
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro General] cr2:
Can you also write wince programs ?

We don't actually need a cab installer, it is possible

to pack everything in one executable.

FYI, I develop and compile the bootloader with gcc,

i.e. in a full microsoft-free environment.

It should be a one-click experience to install Linux, and it will be.

btw, i find my Linux-based Motorola A780 is

much easier and logical to use for phone/sms

than wince.

We should also bundle the installation image

with GPS navigation programs: qpegps and roadmap.
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro General] madkat:
It's my job :-) Though I am still quite new to the platform. And to C++!

That would be very neat.

That would certainly make sense - since the bootloader exists prior to any Microsoft product, there is no requirement to build with Microsoft tools. And since you are writing & modifying Linux code, gcc must be much more familiar to you :-)

I look forward to the experience! :-D

WinCE in the form of Windows Mobile is very much an old interface which was never really designed for use with phone/SMS, and it has never been updated.

Do you expect the installer to be able to cope with different user-selected configuration options? i.e. user can choose whether to install qpegps/roadmap, and whether to use OPIE or GPE, as with package choosing in major Linux dists?
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro General] EyeOfTheStorm:
Hi cr2,

how far is your progress on the phone part? I see, you can talk with to it. Does it answer? :`)
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro General] cr2:
The full protocol is rather complex.

It is necessary to write several wince programs

to test what's going on.
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro General] madkat:
A COMport sniffer?