yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[General Omni Discussion] ph37rd:
With all due respect to the OP, the above is the major problem. While many of us are "tech savvy" to one degree or another, I think we forget how to read sometimes.

When you're given that stack of papers to sign for your mortgage, car loan, credit card or bank account, how many blindly sign where we are told to be the agent of that company? Do you read what you are signing? If you answer yes, why is setting up your phone any different? We are told that such and such information is going to be collected when we sign up for our Google accounts. We are told that additional information is going to be collected when we set up our phone. Every time we start up GPS services, we are told Google is going to use this data they collect.

This causes me to wonder why it takes people by surprise when they learn that Google isn't a computer hardware and software company, but a marketing company. And even more wonder happens when they mention it's without their knowledge. Reading terms of service is important. They spell out exactly what they are going to do and give you the option not to participate. When I worked for IBM in the 80's, I had to sign away any rights to technology I developed while working there (with the exception of anything I started before employment and listed on their agreement). If I didn't want to do that I was my choice to not work there. The same thing happened with Tricord, Wang, Computer Associates, MAI, Excactium, Pivotal, etc

The other response about the NSA is troubling as well. We elect our representatives in this country every two four or six years. How many of those people that you voted into office voted yes to the Patriot Act? You want some scary reading, research the rights we gave up allowing that to happen.

We are innocent until proven guilty. The NSA "spying" doesn't just ensnare terrorist, but easily the whole population of the USA. Their model of two, three and more levels of contact captures everyone. The real question isn't I'm not a terrorist so why does it matter, it is I'm not a terrorist so why are you doing it?

We setup up these phones with the knowledge we would be tracked. We walk down the street and see security cameras watching. Then we complain about it? We allowed it to happen to have a whiz bang new phone or to feel safer.

" Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." Benjamin Franklin

I work in retail. Every year I hear people complain that we set Christmas stuff too early. Those same people are buying their lights, cards and trees in the same visit. If they didn't buy early, we wouldn't set early. If we truly cared about not being used as marketing data, we wouldn't be using these phones. We wouldn't use Google.com to search. We wouldn't re-elect many of those in office at the local state and federal levels.

Sorry for the rant, I'll step of the soapbox and allow this discussion to get back on track.
[General Omni Discussion] Hoodahottie:
With no disrespect, I wonder if people who ask me to take full responsibility understand life and power.

I understand that I have to take some responsibility for signing on for services and programs, but I blame the government and corporations more because they are many times richer and more powerful than me.

And they take advantage of that.

How many Terms of service agreements have I had to sign to use internet services? If I really read all of their ToS, I wouldn't have time for anything else. I'll bet that the ceos of these companies haven't read the ToS of their own products. They don't have to because they have the money to hire 50 of the best lawyers and ask them to craft a bullet-proof ToS.

They probably spent tens of thousands of dollars on the ToS. And I stand against all of that money and power, with limited time and resources and no law degree. Am I the one to be blamed? They know I'm tired from work, that I don't have a legal background and my attention span is limited and I need this product, and there is no other choice unless I'm willing to suffer a lot.

Often these multinational corporations control the whole market and I don't really have any choice. Look at the phone OS market now. I can choose between Android, iOS or Windows Phone. My choices are an open source OS built to facilitate spying, an overpriced, closed source, simplistic OS built by a company that co-operates with the NSA or a closed source, proprietary phone from an industry giant accused of anti-competitive behaviour and also collaborating with the NSA.

There's no real choice. Not just in the phone industry, but in most places in life. Powerful people don't become powerful by giving everyone else choices and freedom. They take freedom away. You ask me to take responsibility as if I had another, better choice. Apple, Google and Microsoft ToS will be mostly similar and it'll always protect their interests. There are no other real choices. It's always been that way, and why I blame the government, corporations and powerful people more than myself.

To really win, I'd have to devote my life to fighting all these powerful forces and even if I win, I'll have to spend the rest of my life defending against other crooks who'd try to do the same thing. I wouldn't have any time left for a life.
[General Omni Discussion] ph37rd:
"You ask me to take responsibility as if I had another, better choice."

Who else is responsible for your actions?

"Apple, Google and Microsoft ToS will be mostly similar and it'll always protect their interests. There are no other real choices."

Yes, these companies are in business to make money. That is no different than you having a job to make money.

But do not tell me you or Bill or Steve or Larry do not have à choice. Ever heard of CP/M? An Altair? AltaVista? If you haven't, here is some history.

CP/M was a dominant operating system before DOS. Bill Gates made a choice to create Altair Basic for the Altair microcomputer being sold mail-order. That was the start of Micro-Soft (now Microsoft). He made another choice to create MS-DOS to compete against CP/M for the IBM PC and clones. He made another choice to start work on Windows to compete against Apple's graphical interfaces and IBM's TopView.

Before Steve Jobs made the choice to sell Woz's garage built microcomputer (later named the Apple) there was the Altair mentioned above. They made a choice to build an alternative.

Larry Page and Sergey Brin made the choice to start Google, thinking they could do search better than AltaVista, Yahoo, Excite, HotBot, MetaCrawler, etc.

Powerful people become powerful many times by giving others alternatives. The above mentioned powerful people are examples.

We can make the choice to use prepaid basic phones and not worry about anyone watching us because you don't use personal information to activate.

"To really win, I'd have to devote my life to fighting all these powerful forces"

You should. Doing so makes you powerful. Recently two women changed how one of the world's largest food brands makes their products. One of them eventually dropped out of the spot light and it became the crusade of ONE woman. Kraft Foods is changing how they make some of their Mac and Cheese products due to the efforts of one individual. No more Yellow #5 in their Mac and Cheese products specifically marketed at children. That was a choice she made. A fight that became part of her life.

We all have choices. We are all responsible for our own actions. We can't blame government as a whole because they are largely elected by us. We work to make money to live the life we choose. Corporations (started by individuals) do the same thing.

Sorry again for diverting off topic, but I have a difficult time with responsibility shifting to account for mistakes. We all make them (this reply is probably one of mine). A wise person once said, the man who makes no mistake, usually doesn't make anything worthwhile.

This particular set of threads, all the Omni threads, are what make communities like this work. We can voice opinions, state facts, help with commands to build a repository, compile a kernel, even agree to disagree.

This is how XDA started, while maybe some sections have stayed from the roots, Omni has brought it back full circle.
[General Omni Discussion] Redclient:
You may want to skim through this: http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052748704471504574438900830760842

Some laws (in many? all? countries) are so loosely worded that you're probably breaking some of them right now. Now remember that the government/google/facebook/whoever is watching everything you do. If you ever become "a problem" you're not going to be too difficult to "deal with". Just a potential look at one of the many problems with complete surveillance.
[General Omni Discussion] CNexus:
You guys talk about this as if Google, Facebook and all these companies willingly gave up this information.

But the reality is this: the government (NSA) asks for the data. If the companies deny them this, the NSA then goes to obtain a generalized warrant from the FISA courts, secret courts with a 99.7% warrant approval rate, and then obtain the data regardless of what these companies want.

And for those of you who STILL think it's the companies, read this: http://www.washingtonpost.com/world...1d661e-4166-11e3-8b74-d89d714ca4dd_story.html

---------- Post added at 10:38 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:31 AM ----------

And yes, these companies DO own your data. As soon as you click "I accept these terms" on the registration page, they are now the owners of everything that goes through their online services.

But, here's the catch. Companies are individuals too, as established in Citizens United v. FCC, and are protected under the same rights as any other individual. And it logically follows that because of this, it is a breach on each company's 4th amendment rights for the NSA to obtain generalized warrants, that list NO goal for the investigation, and use these in order to force each company to fork over account details among other things.
[General Omni Discussion] magnamentis:
frustration pure :(

one of the most common arguments of those who don't care or don't want to face the

risks of others knowing anything or almost everything of us is:

i have nothing to hide so what !

now to make a point i would like to come up with a very simple and for many

perhaps a bit strange example but i think most will understand what i mean.

ALBEIT I'M ALLOWED TO MAKE LOVE TO MY WIFE AND IT'S TOTALLY LEGAL

AND RIGHT, I DO NOT WANT ANYONE TO LISTEN OR WATCH :laugh:

UNDERSTOOD ?

regards
[General Omni Discussion] JamieFL:
+1

I've been lurking and decided to give my opinion. First though, let me give a little background. Two years ago I bought my first Nexus and I rooted it right away. I left the bootloader unlocked, the CWM recovery installed, and USB debugging left on. Any app that could log me in automatically I allowed...Ebay, Amazon, Gmail, etc. I thought I was doing a good job protecting my privacy by using a strong password lock and installing Lookout.

I had no idea how easy it was to gain access to all of my data. My ignorance would not have protected me. Now to today. I have a rooted phone, but the bootloader is locked with the stock recovery installed. I will install a custom rom when a good one is available, but the stock recovery will be re-flashed and the bootloader locked when I'm done. I still use Lookout. I'm using LastPass to manage unique strong passwords now...no more saving passwords. I'm waiting for ADB Toggle to be fixed for Kitkat and USB Debugging will be turned off when my phone plugs into a computer. I am constantly looking for ways to protect my data.

To have total convenience, you must give up privacy and security. To have total privacy and security, you must give up convenience. I know that google has access to EVERYTHING I do with my phone and am not happy about it. I try to be informed and balance convenience, privacy, and security.

:good: I second the suggestion that OmniROM should attempt to become the ROM for people who want to protect their privacy and security. :good: There is a lot that can be done at the operating system level that cannot be performed by individual apps. Sure, I love all the features that custom ROMs offer and look forward to see what can be done, but privacy and security are #1 for me.

If you agree, then +1 this post.
[General Omni Discussion] Entropy512:
Pulser is crazy about security/privacy, so that's the long-term plan...

Short-term - things are pretty opened up (ADB on by default for example) since there's a LOT of bringup work to be done. Once things settle down in terms of porting/bringup, some things will get locked down a bit.
[General Omni Discussion] DonDizzurp:
This. Exactly this. As a libertarian I agree with this 100%.
[General Omni Discussion] pulser_g2:
I am indeed :)

The long term plan is for Omni to help you to protect your privacy and personal information, while not being an "arduous" process. Right now, anyone who really cares is able to take steps themselves - my intention is to help EVERYONE do that, without it adversely affecting their experience.

Right now, Omni should be pretty secure. Sure, ADB is on by default, but it requires ADB authentication out of the box, and I am not aware of any exploits against that. If we were, those would be patched ASAP. :)
[General Omni Discussion] sdfgsteve:
I appreciate this, I really do. However, I think the best way to do this is to try as much as possible to make Gapps -optional-.

A lot of people here are saying 'if you don't agree with it, don't use it'. I agree. Which is why I don't use it. I run Horde on top of dovecot and exim, which provides me with Exchange services - on my own server, with my own keys. I don't use any Google apps for anything, /especially/ not anything private related to me. I set up fake accounts where I absolutely require a login to something. I don't use Facebook, or G+, or Linked in, or anything else that removes control of my data. There are apps that require Google stuff, I realise that, and there's not much to be done to get around them than not use it - so I don't, I deliberately go out of my way to use slightly more awkward software (in use, or installation, or a myriad of other ways) just to avoid this.

Another thing that I hope Omnirom addresses in terms of control of the phone is making absolutely sure that the carriers themselves do not do anything without the permission of the user. For example, installing hidden APNs, and using rom-based throttling mechanisms. Yes, they are entitled to enforce their data usage restrictions, but it's up to them to do it on their side, /especially/ if I bought my phone entirely myself. It is /my/ phone, /I/ want control over what happens on it /at all times/.

I hope that Omnirom will support this by putting Android first and foremost, and ensure that it works /completely/, /without/ Gapps or any Google related applications, allowing users to then install them if they want to (I know the installation puts that step in, most ROMs do, but there is a huge implication in those ROMs that you /have/ to install them), and to ensure that there is /no/ aspect of the device hidden from the view of the user.

I'm hoping this just may be a bug, and not related to what I've just said, but I installed Omnirom the other night, and it really is a beautiful ROM. I didn't install gapps. But then, I couldn't install my collection of apks (legitimately obtained from my non-device-oriented google play account via the chrome plugin), saying 'Cannot open file'. As I say, I really hope it's a bug, and not a sign that gapps /needs/ to be installed, but at the moment it means that to avoid gapps, I only have whatever software is installed with the base system.

Steve
[General Omni Discussion] dancress:
Why not? Choice is a good thing, don't you think?

As for Google: yes they are trying to get their hands on every last bit of information about you. It's the price of 'free' but at least they are relatively open about it. As for selling - no they don't. It's their number one asset. Additionally, the NSA doesn't sell the information either. They are a spy company not an ad vendor.
[General Omni Discussion] ph37rd:
I will disagree with this.

Is your location right now considered personal information? What about how many times and what times you visit XDA? reddit? your favorite porn site? Bing? Ford? your utilities? the dry cleaner you just called to check on your suit?

All of that information/data is collected about you. While Google may not be selling that information/data directly, they sell access to it. Using the recent data breach at Target and Google themselves back in July as an examples, nothing is secure. If it's there, someone can access it, whether it's something you agree to or not.
[General Omni Discussion] WesleySmalls:
No. It is very simple. The company buys ad space to be visible under certain conditions. Then Google links these conditions. The company buying the space never gets to see the personal data. They can only say; I want this to be visible to lots of porn website visitors. and pay along that. When an company buys ad space on a billboard they dont get insight to city resources either, do they?
[General Omni Discussion] :
After reading through this thread, does anyone have an opinion on which platform spies on its customers the least? Windows, Android or iOS. I would like to know. I am under the assumption its android because I have the most control over the OS?
[General Omni Discussion] chasmodo:
It should be Android, not because you have "the most control", but rather because its open source and everyone can see what's in it.

Gapps are another story, of course.
[General Omni Discussion] :
Thankfully there are GApps options for rooted users. I have been using Core GApps. Google has become too intrusive as of lately with GEL and Google Now.

Sent from my Nexus 5
[General Omni Discussion] Perry2547:
Replying to the OP.

YOU'RE NOT THE ONLY ONE THAT HAS TO GROVEL ON HERE WITH FEAR OF UPSETTING THE EGOS.

I think its telling that I've noticed several posters now having to include statements such as " with all due respect" and "I don't mean any disrespect"...

WHAT THAT SHOWS IS THAT THE EGOS HERE HAVE TO BE APPEASED. AND THEY'RE HUMORLESS.

OK WE GET IT. WERE NOT GOING TO ASK FOR AND E.T.A. JOKE OVER. NOT FUNNY ANYMORE.
[General Omni Discussion] Shakes27:
It's actually more like basic human decency: not to act entitled to things that you receive for no money and just a little time out of your day. The dev's egos aren't needing to be appeased, it's people not wanting to seem like they're whining. Please, don't post crap like that.
[General Omni Discussion] Perry2547:
And you just labeled my observation as "crap" ?

Thanks for the attack.

At least you spelled all your words right so you must not be a dev. :):):)

Just a joke, get over yourself.

---------- Post added at 02:39 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:36 PM ----------

Btw, I have a post just asking for Rom advice in regards to which might be best in terms of brightness.

It's just sitting there. I mean, no one has a suggestion?
[General Omni Discussion] ThommmF:
Which device do you use? I can't get any CalDAV calendar to appear in my calendars apps on my Oppo N1.
[General Omni Discussion] forart.eu:
A "simple" security solution could be to distribuite a ROM with alternative open&free apps.

For example F-Droid don't bores users with "identify yourself" mess as Gplay does.

Another idea could be to have users (and users-levels) management.
[General Omni Discussion] tiktok1:
I agree, adding F-droid would be a simple start in the right direction.

I want to avoid Gapps if possible.

Great OP post and some replies, would love to see omnirom take on the direction of security and privacy and utility.
[General Omni Discussion] passlogin:
This has a lot of merit.

The ROM scene is disjoint and confusing. There are seemingly dozens of ROM projects, 90% of them 'hosted' on web forums (!). Many pride themselves on trivial features like changing icons and colours. Others make UI tweaks of questionable utility and taste. For example: Omniswitch. It does not fundamentally improve UX; it merely puts a different skin on existing functionality, a skin that clashes with Android's aesthetic and UI. Android's UI is already a relic that needs a basic overhaul (ala Sailfish). Why bolt on more crap? Omni's little settings tiles flip over when you flick them. Great.

I am not here to bash Omni. The question of its purpose is a good one though. My impression was Omni was born out of Cyanogenmod, in reaction to its commercial ambitions. That's what gave me high hopes for Omni. If that be the case, should we not expect Omni to at least keep a CM baseline? Yet CM has good features absent from Omni. For example they both have permissions for applications, but CM's interface ('Privacy' setings) is much nicer.

I find CM the most restrained and tasteful of the ROMs. They don't add things for the sake of it. Anecdotally, CM is the most stable. On my device with Omni I've noted several glitches. Many useful external mods are built with CM in mind, such as kernels offering improved features and performance and settings. If Omni were merely CM with any commercial aspects removed I would be quite happy. Extras should be targeted and useful and not at the expense of stability.

The original post suggests excellent directions. Openness, security, privacy. After every application I install, I jump through the hoops of configuring AFWall and permissions. Give me a UI to make that more automatic and consistent, not several different kinds of lockscreen and application switcher. Just a thought. Discourage web services and closed software (GApps), promote alternatives like Osmand.
[General Omni Discussion] Entropy512:
Um, that's exactly why we have chosen to avoid a CM baseline! The "I'm Steve and I ninjamerge whatever I want wherever I want because I have millions of dollars in funding now" attitude is pervasive throughout the entirety of CM.

We are an independent project, kanging/cherrypicking without thought is frowned upon (and some features have been held up from merging for just this reason.)
[General Omni Discussion] passlogin:
My apologies, I projected some ideals onto Omni. I didn't realize it was about developer attitudes.
[General Omni Discussion] Entropy512:
There were quite a few design decisions made by CM that we disagreed with.

Also, keep in mind, we're not fundamentally anti-commercial in general - we had issues with the specific way in which Cyngn took things commercial. Things such as trying to use their CLA to forcefully relicense a fully independent GPL work so that they could obtain exclusive commercial rights to it, refusing to discuss the situation with anyone and simply try to sweep it under the rug, and consistently lie to members of their own team.

Also, if we just grab CM's code without thought, the end result is a baseline that we have no proper understanding of the inner workings of. We've had a LOT of problems already with cases of people grabbing code from other projects and submitting it without a thought - Active Display was a complete disaster until squadzone stepped in and took ownership of it for example.

Right now, "CM with any commercial aspects removed" is pretty much CM minus CMAccount (except for special Cyngn builds like CM11S) - the "commercial aspects" of the community build are not in the code, but in *the process by which the code is developed*. For us to get away from that development process, it is necessary to not follow the code.

As to devices with glitches - It depends on what device you have, but to be honest, our glitchiest devices are the ones where the tree is a close match to CM (in some cases because the maintainer isn't doing much more than following CM - see the Note 2 family as a great example of this)

Our best-supported devices are the ones where the maintainers have evolved the device tree completely independently of CM - this means they actually understand the device tree and how it works. Examples of this are our Oppo bringups.