yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Galaxy S 4 General] testadeferro:
I know more damaged phones with stock firmware then modified ones. From me and closest people I know a 7 day burned mobo on galaxy s2 (stock non rooted) a s3 ( stock and non rooted) with bad lens and camera, another s3 with defect lens (stock non rooted), a unfuncional s3 (allways overheating and damaging bords every 3 months stock non rooted). So instead at looking at 0.01 % (like many says here about people that mods phones) they should make proper devices ( 600 and more euros) with proper quality, instead of putting cheap emmcs on the devices and faulty lens and so on.
[Galaxy S 4 General] vampyren:
So you know for a fact it's 0.01% I'm sure there are many who do this otherwise the would not have done this. It's not like they don't have better things to do. Also you buy a product as is so if u want to change it its on you. Why is that so hard to grasp? Same is valid with any device or car or anything really.
[Galaxy S 4 General] testadeferro:
In cars you have proper warranty. Here you have a jungle. Do you know how many devices where saved by devs regarding sds? Samsund should be happy how many phones where nt burned with xda fixing patches.
[Galaxy S 4 General] Gillion:
My friend once flashed the wrong ROM to his S2. It destroyed the controller for his screen.

He was somehow able to flash it back to stock (the USB jig was great wasn't it ?) and send it in for a new screen.

"My screen just died ! Fix it with my warranty !"

Over the years on XDA I have seen many users brag about sending their device in for repair after a custom ROM flash or overclock went bad.

I always private message ask... why are you bragging on the forum you think Samsung isn't watching ?

In reality KNOX does NOT prevent us from using the device anyway we see fit.

What it does do is tell Samsung if we broke the implicit and implied legal warranty agreement in the EULA... "the ones we never read"

It means that we cannot just simply flash back to stock and send the device in for repair.

It means Samsung hates us taking them for fools... just as much as we hate them for (withing context of the thread) limiting our warranty for the device.

But the truth is unless we can prove without a doubt that our flashing custom ROMS will never harm the device... and we wont then send it for repair (because those "fools" at the repair center wont know anyway) ... unless we can prove to Samsung as a community that we will remain honorable with our hardware open device... they wont budge.

Besides .. many of you knew KNOX was a feature of the S4 but I feel that you brushed KNOX off thinking that some hero dev will find a way.

That is assuming you understood what KNOX was really about ?

I know that many of you do not realize that, maybe just maybe, Samsung devs are just as smart as our hero devs.

Many of you always assume XDA devs will find a way.

The S2 system check came and Chainfire found a way.

The S3 system check came and Chainfire found a way.

The S4 system check came and Chainfire found a way... mostly

All the while Chainfire has been warning us... "Samsung is adapting"

Now that Chainfire has been slowed down or Buddha forbid, totally stopped ... your all upset ?

You think this cat and mouse game doesn't have the Cat getting smarter ?

Mark my words... if Chainfire or any of expert devs find a way around this... it will be the last time it will happen because Samsung will adapt and lock it tighter.

So I suggest we find a way to ask Samsung to create an XDA or AOSP developer warranty.

I suggest we ask for a globally applicable special warranty where our device imei or XDA/Samsung ID is registered as an open device used by developers and testers and that the special software warranty applies.

This would in effect be a developer edition... but special warranty rules apply (carrier contract or no carrier)
[Galaxy S 4 General] GruberEXN:
Still, they don't gave us a reasonable explanation, specially to the devs.

It's not about their decisions, it's about their lack of touch with the community, this "platform closing" without any public statement it's not a defensive measure, they're trying to attack those who want to exploit the full potential of their devices. Which happened for so much time, that once for all they decided to block it.

It was my last purchase of a Samsung cellphone as an avid buyer of expensive cellphones (my i9505), once I get rid of it, I'll migrate to an open platform like Nexus, for example.
[Galaxy S 4 General] matheus_sc:
if you like really open only nexus and oppo, but i do'nt think warranty will be granted.
[Galaxy S 4 General] testadeferro:
Oppo is fully supported even of You root. No warranty voidance when You root.
[Galaxy S 4 General] Gillion:
Have you read the EULA in your settings menu ? Specifically section 2 ?

Have any of us really read what we agreed to when we set up the device ?

We breok the agreement that we say yes to... just so you know.

You wont modify

You wont make derivatives

Its all there

Please understand the new platforms were never provided for us to exploit the full potential... we clicked on the dotted line.

This is why we cant even take them to court and win
[Galaxy S 4 General] jcasares:
I believe Android at some point in time will mature to a way that will need some changes in the warranty policies of most builders. Phones are becoming almost like computers and will become central to our daily tasks. Now, warranties are practically a joke. If you drop a phone and has a minor mark in the housing then they won't repair the USB connector when it doesn't charge (happened for real). That's plainly stupid. Unless you broke the connector when you drop it it should have nothing to do one with the other. I would agree that if you gave them a broken screen that's another thing.

I believe that justice requires that both sides in a transaction have the same obligations and rights. That's a principle of the law but not always enforced. Most of the times companies abuse their rights and forget about their obligations. Before there were consumer organizations companies did whatever they wanted. Now they are more restricted and try to do anything to be freed from their obligations.

They release phones that are as expensive as a notebook and expect you to cope with bad performance, defects and issues that appear after some time of usage. All the time you spend diagnosing and trying to fix an issue, the trouble that brings to your life/business; that has no value?

We should have the right to make them refund the money of the phone if they don't deliver and also have some compensation. That way they will be forced to do more tests before going to market, build upon a standard platform instead of reinventing the wheel again like HTC and Samsung, among many, do.

Resuming, I believe they have the right to know when you played with your phone but they should also be obligated to provide service for issues not coming from that.

In any case I might not buy another Samsung not for this or KNOX but because they didn't deliver like the GS2 I had. I'm not really satisfied with the GS4 because of many issues. The problem is that I don't see other brands being much better. I hope that alternatives start to appear. We need white box hardware where we can run the software we want and have good specs and more important, THAT DELIVER.
[Galaxy S 4 General] negrobembon:
Oppo? what kinf of firmware do these Oppos run? stock android or a custom variant?
[Galaxy S 4 General] ZACQ8:
If I don’t care about warranty and I dont need a custom ROM/Kernel/Recovery..

Can I have a full working 4.3 official Rom with only a Root access??*

Will the Knox and the bootloader annoy and interfere the flawless working of any Root apps like Titanium Back up, root browser etc..???
[Galaxy S 4 General] testadeferro:
They can write if you trigger knox You get a dead penalty. Not everything You type on a contract is legal.
[Galaxy S 4 General] dsecareanu:
/care

AndreiLux is right, you need to get your heads out of your arses...

You buy a product that is bound by some rules that you decide to break. Yet you still expect warranty on that product... how delusional...

Just accept the voided warranty if you wanna tamper with your phone...

No one forces you to buy the product in the first place or to mess with it in the second place...

Is that easy...
[Galaxy S 4 General] jcasares:
Just after all I said... "Meet Ara, Motorola's open and modular smartphone project"

http://www.androidcentral.com/meet-ara-motorola-s-open-and-modular-smartphone-project

http://www.androidpolice.com/2013/1...an-open-modular-smartphone-hardware-platform/

It seems Google is aware of the times to come and will go that direction faster than I thought.

If Samsung believes they can keep their market share doing what they are doing now, poor them...
[Galaxy S 4 General] wanam:
You are confusing two things here, Knox is a security solution, but the flag is a warranty flag.

The GalaxyS4 is the first device i got with a warranty, and i have to say i was lucky to use it just before introducing the new flag, i got all my previous Samsung devices (more than 10) without any warranty, and i never cared about it.

As AndreiLux said, the flag was there since GS2 days and i don't think Samsung will care about a minority of their customers, so at the end it is your choice.
[Galaxy S 4 General] testadeferro:
This is my last comment on this.

Do you loose warranty if you change your windows os to linux on your pc? The answer is no.

Microsoft is having bad times in eutope doing windows 8 bootloaders that restricting other os install.

You pay sometimes more for a smartphone then a pc!

The people are using more and more smartphones as a daily drive. So you must give them quality and choice. Android is choice, development and modding. If you want close phones go to ios. Or samsung should release tyzen and do what they want with own os.

Instead of cheating people with dubious legal flags they should build better and stable products. Not ptoducts like s3 or some similar full of bugs and defects. And not to talk about they update policy as they stay 6 or more months without updating phones full of bugs (note 2 s3). That's the real point. Instead of continously cheating who spent a lot of money in unfinished products they should focus on build quality products that give users really good experience.

I own a s3, costs me 600 euros a year ago and if it wasn't root and getting rid of all samcrap my phone where now dead doing bad memory management.

So folks if you're in peace with the flag continue to buy this products. It's individual choice.

I will never buy a samsung product again and I own many of them. Even a smart tv I own from them. But this kind of game I don't play with my money.

There are many interesting brands in the market for the price and without this mandatory flags with dubious legality.

They want to sell you a product and be the owner of what they sell you. Yhis is not fair.

Knox flags? Regional lock codes!? Wtf!

Last. I've a s4 that as a faulty screen membrane doing overheat... allways on stock... and not yo tell that the crap plastic on the sides after 4 months is loosing color! Nice product for 700 euros! They will make a flag for my hands to see if they're hotter to use the phone. If my hands are hover 35 c them the plastic melts and I loose my warranty! Nice!
[Galaxy S 4 General] AvelonTs:
I've read most of this thread and i can't help but wonder why most of you and generally most of people who constantly cry about things like knox and the regional locking without even knowing what are those things exactly and how will affect them bought the s4 ... all of you could just simply bought a nexus device which gives you the option or even encourage you the way it's been built to flash roms and do whatever the hell you want with it ...

There is a flag showing if the warranty is void years now as andrei lux said and now that samsung decided to simply reveal it everyone feels restricted by it ... you are so eager to complain about everything that seems wrong ... i would agree with someone saying that i won't buy samsung again because i m disappointed by the performance or overheating of the s4 but doing so because of knox and regional locking is dumb ... especially the latter because i m quite certain that some who complain about it never imported a handset before they just complained because it seemed wrong ...

Lastly about those who compare smartphones with PCs ... your arguments would be valid when we ll be able to build a mobile device ourselves with its components and get a device with no operating system to start with ... because then installing an OS that makes you unable to install anything else thus locking your hardware components would be flat out wrong
[Galaxy S 4 General] testadeferro:
Putting an efuse or some kind of mark in a phone without knowlegde of the user is privacy invasion in europe. I know that europe as many directives and no laws but it´s like this. You can´t write what you want in a contract and make this a law!

And dear friend I had a S2 with burning motherboard and after 3 repairs I still waiting ( 1 year and 3 months) for an answer from samsung about to replace or not a faulty S2! That´s crazy but insted of having this clown behauvior they just could support they re costumers better and give what a costumer should have. A flawless product instead of cheating people with excuses of they re own fault. Lucky that my provider gave me other phone assuming what samsung should assumed. This not a correct market position stay behind a coward mark.

And about OS´s, don´t make me laugh.
[Galaxy S 4 General] AvelonTs:
That mark you say doesn't track anything private of yourself ... it's not spyware or anything close to it that gives you the right to claim that it's privacy invasion ... and if you think it is you should sue them because if you are right i m pretty sure you ll get a nice junk of money out of it ...

I won't blame any company who did something like it ... samsung gives you a product and support it as they made it if you want to modify the product you do it by taking the responsibility for it ... i would have done the same in their position ... i don't like everything about it because i want to remove the bloatware i don't use by rooting but still is very reasonable for a company to support a product as it was produced and not modified ... supporting a modified product i would consider it a very nice plus to it but still a plus and not a fact ...
[Galaxy S 4 General] testadeferro:
When i buy something the object is mine, they should not alowed to let something that is monitoring a phone that dont Belong to them. They should prove buy other means that You change firmware. Thats the point of knox in europe. To voidance of warranty they must to prove. Thats what they are doing. Ilegally.

Sent From my ipad (knox free)
[Galaxy S 4 General] Gillion:
Thats exactly the point samsung makes.

1. The phone is YOURS.

2. The software is THEIRS ... and Googles.

3. If you keep it this way for 1 year they will fix it free.

Once you remove this software bundle then all responsibility falls to you to fix it if something goes wrong.

Once you remove their software you remove Samsungs insurance policy that you wont try to screw them over.

You cant expect them to freely fix something you tampered with or broke ?

The deal is you buy the hardware and you own the harfware...

But samsung will continue to freely support the software... and as an added bonus they will fix the hardware if it breaks because of something they did at the factory.

As long as you do not remove it.

They are obligated by the warantee to fix YOUR property as long as you comply with the Warranty guidelines.

And Samsung has the right to monitor if you changed the condition of the deal.
[Galaxy S 4 General] testadeferro:
In Europe you have two years warranty, not one.

In Europe there arew rules that are over every contract. Like in some countrys. So what they put on a contract is not allways legal, and most of what is in this EULA is ilegal is most European countrys.

If you don´t live in Europe maybe your EULA applys.

And friend, point 2 of EULA points to software rights not to any warranty voidance though modding software voids hardware warranty. Thats the point.

regards
[Galaxy S 4 General] rsndetre:
This arguments are like : "it must be true since is in the newspaper". Samsung has the right to that , and this , and what ever. Blablabla. They can write what ever they want as long as we allow them. Because they made an EULA doesn't make it right, or legit.

One example: in my country all the banks put all sort of abusive and shady rules inside the contracts, and interpreted this rules in the worst way possible. All the banks behaved the same. No choice. Prove a deal between the banks if you can. It may even be some sort of tacit agreement.

Of course, everyone not tricked by a bank reacted like you do here. It's your fault, didn't you read the contract, why you took a loan ... what ever.

In the end, consumers requested and obtained the right to group to sue the banks. Further more, they made lobby and obtained a law by which all abusive rules from contracts are void.

So, if Microsoft, Google, Apple, Samsung, Blizzard and other big companies saw fit and fruitful to enforce this kind of rules, like you rent the software, you don't buy it, it's not necessary right or good.
[Galaxy S 4 General] AvelonTs:
You missed the point a bit ... what the EULA states is that the software that samsung build is their own and no one have they right to reproduce or sell it etc ... the same EULA applies to all software stating that it's intellectual property of it's creator ... which is legal everywhere ...

But let's say you own samsung ... and you have a 20% perchentage of warranty repairs coming from poor software optimization or coding which lead in misuse of hardware thus damaging it ... when you already spend some million in the R&D department for testing both software and hardware and those things shouldn't be happening ... is samsung responsible because you or the software you chose fried your device? no it's not ... warranty mostly exists to cover manufacturing defects because it theoretically guaranties you that for X years your device shouldn't have any problems ...

In conclusion you claim that it is illegal for a company to stop supporting a product which is not meant to be working in your preferred modified way but as it came out of the box? If yes i told you again sue them ... there's only profit in it

And don't separate hardware and software ... software controls hardware and can easily destroy it

I really don't get it sometimes ... why some people bought a gs4 when they don't like it's gimmick features, touchwiz and everything samsung put into it? Why don't you simply buy a nexus 4? Are all so spec obsessed?
[Galaxy S 4 General] DjeMBeY:
This crazy KNOX-Talks will go forever...... :p

My answer was simple, bye-bye Sammy, welcome to Sony... :D

Superior hardware and no KNOX, no BS, fully reversible BL unlocking, expandable memory, etc....

No Sammy, no tears :p

Sent from my AwEsOmE Z1 (C6903)
[Galaxy S 4 General] Gillion:
Can you please read the Sony Legal EULA in your system settings ?

Screen shot it for me thanks.
[Galaxy S 4 General] lch920619x:
wow great, according to the EULA, it seems that if I turn off my wifi I void my warranty? because I disabled some feature? LoL

glad that I switched to G2
[Galaxy S 4 General] Gillion:
If you disabled the feature by using root yes.

Please read the LG EULA

LG is a South Korean Company just like Samsung.... dont get too complacent... is the EULA the same ?
[Galaxy S 4 General] lch920619x:
Actually I'm Ok with the warranty bit. Because most manufacturers have that and that's within reason. What I can't stand is with warranty bit 1 u can nolonger use knox in official roms and u get an error message everytime. This is ridiculous. Almost as ridiculous as sony unlocked bl breaks the camera.

---------- Post added at 08:48 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:47 PM ----------

EULA must be that fun to read. Then carry on reading yourself, because no one else bothers to read...
[Galaxy S 4 General] DjeMBeY:
Sorry mate, no such thing... :p

Sent from my C6903
[Galaxy S 4 General] lch920619x:
I don't bother.

But thus is what happened. My G2 got a dead pixel. I was once running CM but I flashed back to stock and sent in for repair. they changed LCD panel for me without any questions.

I'm not that kind of people who would send phone for warranty when they burn it with bad flash. But when I know clearly It's not my fault, I need them to do the repair for me. Hope I made the point clear to you.

If ur interested I can tell u last time I was on Nexus one and running CM as well. When I sent in the phone to repair faulty power button, the repaired it without any questions, although my bl was unlocked.

That's what I am looking for , basically.

---------- Post added at 08:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:54 PM ----------

yeah btw I cant send u photos of my EULA for ur interest reading now... because I'm running CM. :)
[Galaxy S 4 General] Gillion:
Thats exactly the problem with able bodied and able minded consumers gloablly.

---------- Post added at 03:01 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:58 PM ----------

And you have not unlocked, rooted and modified your phone ?
[Galaxy S 4 General] lch920619x:
Wrong. The problem is that I can summarize EULA in one line so I don't bother reading.

EULA rule NO.1 do not go to xda!

BTW your question made my day mate. Do you even know to whom ur talking to and what he does? If not please have a look at development section.

Of course he's not unlocked or root his phoneQ_Q
[Galaxy S 4 General] Gillion:
From the sony website...

http://unlockbootloader.sonymobile.com/

They want to keep devs and tweakers this is good...

The best part in that whole statement. ...

With all of the above in mind, you should only unlock the boot loader of your device if you are an advanced user with good knowledge of the technology and risks involved. We recommend standard users not to unlock the boot loader, as it is not needed. We are proud to deliver great software experiences through our rigorously tested and official software releases.

If you are fully aware of the risks involved, and have a deep knowledge about these technologies, continue to the unlock boot loader instructions page.*You should be aware that unlocking the boot loader will not give you root access. The only way to get root access is to flash a custom ROM with root access.

Gonna see if samsung has the equivalent anywhere... if they dont then this is the problem.

They can easily make a clause like this and still keep carriers and nsa government spooks happy.

---------- Post added at 03:25 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:19 PM ----------

So he or she shouldn't be questioned because he or she is a hero dev and I am some unwashed noob ?

Forgive me for not knowing about his or her awesome contributions.