yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Galaxy Note 3 General] Sudo77:
While I am desperate as the next guy to reset this flag, I don't think we will get any closer to solving the issue. But since you are curious :D, let me give you an understanding of the current problem the best way I can. (Correct me if I'm wrong)

Say you lock your phone with a pin password (usually 4 digits) and you forgot it. If you can get into it, you can reset the flag. 4 digit pin is like what? 10000 possibilities. A long time to solve but, do-able. But this is not a 4 digit pin, it is SHA-256 64 digits pin which the possibilities are in the quadrillions or even way larger. But that's not all, the pin will change every time you update the system, and old keys blacklisted plus a few more factors. Without clever exploitation, it is near impossible as this is not only a locked boot-loader but an encrypted one.

I still have yet to see, a method to reset the flag without pre-leaked firmwares with acceptable keys (direct unlock). If this is possible, then all devices can be unlocked, and Qfuses another issue. I say this not to discourage people, but to urge them to look at the sheer obstacles, and feasibility of the situation.

While 3k is a nice incentive, for now, you can keep your pocket change. :p
[Galaxy Note 3 General] nandovj7e:
hay all,

please help me,

how to reset knox warranty void:

in my GALAXY NOTE 8.0 GT-5100?

I still bought the item last month,

unfortunately if the warranty is expired,,,,,,,,tq

I will give a donation if it is successful,,,,,

I hope there are developers / masters who do not get discouraged science
[Galaxy Note 3 General] taqishah:
trip or strip knox

add my $5 to the list.

thanks.
[Galaxy Note 3 General] misterG33:
You can't. There is no way.
[Galaxy Note 3 General] guxila28:
Odin falli :confused:

Gửi từ GT-N7100 của tôi bằng cách sử dụng Tapatalk 2
[Galaxy Note 3 General] Tricky103:
I'll give $20
[Galaxy Note 3 General] negus72:
I hope it is really possible very soon!

negus72 on SM-N9005
[Galaxy Note 3 General] Omar04:
This will never be possible.
[Galaxy Note 3 General] bot42:
You should put money down on that, I remember when they said that about Samsung's flash counter. If there's a will there's a way. I frankly don't buy into this whole e-fuse businesses, mainly because in all of Samsung's repair manuals there is no mention of Knox e-fuses. However there is mention of a Knox reset bootloader. Besides if you're right, then you lose nothing. If you're wrong then we all win.
[Galaxy Note 3 General] Sudo77:
Let's not get too rash on betting lol. I have something to add on the matter since you brought it up. Flash counters are not meant to be a security protocol, they just meant to verify how many times the device is flashed, the information can be erased. Knox counter however, is. It's meant to permanently lock the container on tampered devices so that user private data is unretreviable, and services unreusable. If it was easily reset, kinda defeats the purpose really :/. I think (possibly) SHA-256 that is used here does the job, as it is a one-way hash function, much harder to crack.

Efuses/qfuses they exist... Knox is designed to utilize the underlying CPU architecture to do its security tasks (based on my understanding of the research), so of course, you won't find them in Samsung's repair manuals. Samsung is NOT the ones who puts efuses in their devices. Qualcomm CPU manufacturers do, and there is overwhelming evidence of it (like in their Motorola Atrix series) :

http://blog.azimuthsecurity.com/2013/04/unlocking-motorola-bootloader.html

Samsung is only responsible for the software (KNOX) which can cause them to blow. Exynos on the other hand, is unlikely to face this issue. Nothing is impossible if determination is involved, but its not far off here (unless you are hardcore at reverse engineering). But hey! you can try "rm -rf" or "dd" command to format! It may remove the KNOX flag... and the bootloader... and the kernel... and all files... and turn your phone into a lovely, expensive, paperweight. :silly:

Edit: And yes, I do think there is a bootloader that can reset Knox, as easy as 2 seconds if you know the key. I think, every time you update the BL (Android version) you need a key, and Samsung knows this when they release updates/testing version (hence the Note 3 reset). However, they are not gonna distribute this freely. Then what is the point of all this?
[Galaxy Note 3 General] SnuggP:
thank you for posting this!
[Galaxy Note 3 General] bot42:
No problem.
[Galaxy Note 3 General] Sudo77:
Not So Fast!

Goodness me, did I manage to spark some debate into this issue? Great! It's more resourceful then the "yes/no" short answers. Let's have at it!

Most of your points are well taken, with a few exceptions. I think some of our points are redundant so lets clear it up. Firstly regarding e-fuses, you say, they are in "write-protect" mode or in research terms OTP one-time programmable memory blocks. These memory blocks you speak of are likely to be tiny transistors holding bits of data. If they are write-protected, why did you also suggest to rewrite the them to read 0x0? Sounds like once blown, always blown to me. Doesn't matter if they are those old gigantic truck fuses (which you replace), or microscopic efuses. They both serve their purpose hence the name. Now, I did mention software masking a few posts back, which is as you say, program the fuse to re-read as 0x0 despite them still being 0x1 or reroute (even better!). To do this, (I will stress it harder now) you need to REVERSE ENGINEER, the bootloader. But who does this on spare time? It's like saying lets create a whole new OS! You may be right on Snapdragon and Exynos processors having similar architecture, but for general interests, can you prove that their "minute differences" in design doesn't include the addition of qfuses?

Speaking of security, which plays an important role here (as you mention Windows XP scenario) they are bound to be cracked sooner later as this is inevitable. DES was eventually broken but it took them a couple of years to do, now there is AES high level encryption. My main point is it takes a really long time, but not impossible. Take a look at this very post! We are 185 pages in, and still no solid solution. To do such feat as reverse engineering the bootloader code as above, you must first bypass or unlock it as Knox also secures it. It takes soo much more money than 3k if you are going this route. I'm also saying, at the time the flash counter was implemented they may not think about securing it, but now that we have Knox, Triangle Away can't reset it fully to 0, because of the same security mechanisms.

Lastly, I sense much fear in you, writing this article. You will soon join the dark side lol. Are you Americans afraid of a Korean monopoly taking control over the electronic industry? Speaking of large companies, I do feel a little better that Google is taking into account the Knox architecture in Android L, although things may turn out differently. Google has always allowed users to unlock bootloaders at their leisure. Maybe they won't fully lock the BL's as Samsung does, and allow users to input their passkey to encrypt it. This is the pride of the Nexus line. :D
[Galaxy Note 3 General] bot42:
One more point for you eecs.oregonstate.edu/~traylor/.../fuses.pdf

Efuses/Qfuses are not transistors(transistors can not store information by themselves) they are small memory blocks(granted they may contain a few transistors). And although difficult and potentially dangerous they can be erased and rewritten. That's how Jtag can knox reset all the Exynox versions. Exynox uses and older efuses then Qualcomm's newer Qfuses. Here's directions from a Jtag maker on how to force rewrite efuseshttp://www.xilinx.com/support/documentation/sw_manuals/xilinx11/pim_c_introduction_efuse.htm

That's the trick is no one has figured how to put qfuses in read/write mode. My point is it has a read only and a read write mode. Also people reverse engineered hundreds of bootloaders, some people would even argue that android is a reverse engineered IOS or visa versa.
[Galaxy Note 3 General] Sudo77:
They are not? Are you sure? Your point is not well taken here... Anywho, regardless of what technology is used (magnetic/electical) data must be stored and read physically, its not magic. You have further proven my point that it is more difficult to do lol. From, your OWN sources it states in RED: "Caution! eFUSE register bits are one-time programmable. Once they are burnt, they cannot be changed. Make sure you enter the correct information before you set the eFUSE control register." Furthermore the article even hints AES encryption. Okay...

Why are you taking a technology that is DESIGNED to be OTP and saying "no one has figured how to put qfuses in read/write mode". To add, based on what I understand, the efuse's primary job is to disable read, write, or read and write. But if you can write to it, efuses would seem insignificant (don't think is what they use here). Yes, BLs have been unlocked, but encryption makes it the more harder. We are going in circles here. I do agree with one thing. Android is a "fork" Linux as the do share the similar kernels and functionality. Like IOS which is a fork of Unix, which makes them distant cousins engineered differently.

Don't let pride get to you when you ask people to bet but try to keep and open mind. When I bet, I do it for fun and knowledge. If I am wrong, I loose money sure, but I also gain the knowledge and ability to think more carefully before I act. I am on your side, don't be mistaken, and I will be able to sleep peacefully once again if the Knox is reset. You just have to consider the consequences.
[Galaxy Note 3 General] bot42:
This is an ironic statement, What if Knox is reset. Well for starters you could say that everything that you held in your"secure" Knox container can be obtained. Well what I'm saying is that everything you put in that box is already Obtainable by all the people you're already afraid might get it. Knox was not made to keep our files safe from the government. It was made to keep corporate/governments documents safe from you. As a matter of fact the container may give you a false sense of comfort. Do you

Really think Samsung won't give that reset bootloader to the Government upon request? They would, assuming they haven't already. Why do you think only the Qualcomm processors went to the US? Here in the US you have a right to privacy. However the illusion of Privacy and actual privacy are two completely different things. Actual privacy is a wonderful thing, the illusion of it can be deadly. Now with all the conspiracy theory stuff out of the way. This also has to do with the bottom dollar. A corporation has to honor is contacts and guarantees. However if they can prove you have tampered with the product then they can say you voided the warranty. They maybe marketing Knox as a security feature. However in reality is not, it's just a way of saving a buck on warranty returns. With Knox now Samsung (whether they are a force for good or evil) has it's hand in every aspect of the mobile computing world. Every device will have a version of Knox on it. So I say to you sir are the consequences larger if do or don't reset the Knox flag. See I placed my bet already, and personally believe the risk of resetting Knox far outweigh the consequences of not.
[Galaxy Note 3 General] Sudo77:
You speak as if you think I like Knox. Me? Like Knox?... Bahahaha! Out of the question! Let me explain my position. I like pure Linux, period. Linux stands for freedom. If it was up to me, I would purge Knox, bl and all, and all traces of private user data collection out of Android (like Debian). That is why I am here, for knowledge. As you say, Knox is taking away this freedom from Linux and really shouldn't.

You may be right about Samsung's intentions to save money, as a large company I can see that. But I think Knox is truly aimed at securing data for businesses/large government enterprises from hackers rather than personal users and I know Samsung will give governments access to there system. (Proof @ 7:50 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WokfeVqozy8). This still doesn't excuse Samsung for using this behavior.

Another example, I love Google for providing excellent service, but I also hate them because of their data collection ethics (LOVE-HATE relationship! :highfive:). So, I don't use some of their programs, like Chrome if I have the choice. You can do this. If you don't like Samsung, just don't buy their phones (look at Tizen). I also love Cisco, brilliant company and cares a lot for networking infrastructures and customers. But something I don't understand is, your president is reported to bug Cisco devices. Why? http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/cisco-...s-obama-to-stop-bugging-it-hardware-1.2647079

This issue always pop-up, not only with Knox. So yes, know the consequences. PS. I am with you on this I care for user privacy, but I don't bet on something unless I know is absolutely 100% true, which in most cases is never. So gl with that :p You also raise another technical question... which reminds me....

CALLING ALL NOTE 3 USERS WHO HAVE RESET KNOX! Is it true, once you did reset Knox, you can re-access old files in your Knox container? Please let me know! Thanks.
[Galaxy Note 3 General] msasm09:
I think if knox aimed for secure enterprise data not warranty so why didn't they provide knox reset and purge for end users like us.

I tripped my knox by changing CSC to XEO so what did i tamper with flashing official sammy rom to international unlocked expensive device like note 3 ???

---------- Post added at 03:45 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:41 PM ----------

Guys could we just make petition to all Qualcomm devices with perment knox void to unleash reset and purge bootloader to our end users device's aka SGN3, SGN2, SGS4, SGS5 .....

I think we numbered by multi million owners
[Galaxy Note 3 General] nicholaschum:
I would really love to quote a specific person in the above argument, but they all have many unreferenced claims there.

Can we get more quotes of evidence rather than pure speculation from "some experience" of some sort? I don't need any definitions or sh*t like that, I just want to know when you claim things like this "Upon the release of android lollipop all upgraded phones and tablets will contain the Knox container system, complete with Knox flag. " or "They are essentially the same chip with only minute differences in design made to accommodate the differences in production facilities between Qualcomm and Exynos."

As we know Google signed a "term" with Samsung about the KNOX business - but it doesn't prove that it

will

be used in the next generation unless we see solid evidence from the developer previews. They could easily change how it works and you can't speculate a decision they haven't done so yet, even if you think it's the most logical idea.

Anyways, the more references the better. Since we're 185 pages in, it's pointless to read people's ideas and ways of determining the current situation without a) action b) solid evidence and c) new findings that actually help.

---------- Post added at 03:17 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:10 PM ----------

You're so funny - XDA Note 3 users are just a small percentile of the total amount of Note 3 users in the world.

Unlike the business world, we don't benefit Samsung in any way. The people who wanted KNOX are business IT administrators with a need to control what their employees use. This is a paid service and is beneficial to Samsung.

We aren't paying to use our Note 3's except just buying it at the first place. But as KNOX is a Samsung-wide thing, they would make more business from a) not wasting their resources to help fix your device with a tripped KNOX as they believe it is your fault at the first place and b) catering to the business world with a secure container.
[Galaxy Note 3 General] msasm09:
Oh yes but did you hear about "spread the word"

In early past qualcomm forced by petition to release driver for so famous galaxy 5 and that help port ICS to that device

Oh and cyanogenmod guy make a survey to set priority to device which well receive early version of cm 10.2
[Galaxy Note 3 General] nicholaschum:
Things have changed ever since 4.3 and Knox. No longer does Samsung care for us.

We had a Qualcomm reset tool. They threatened it out of our grasps (xda users)
[Galaxy Note 3 General] msasm09:
I personally think that without leaked reset bootloader from sammy like the Exynos version leak we will not see any progress so MOD it's time to lock this out

---------- Post added at 09:54 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:40 PM ----------

You mean qualcomm sign utility ?
[Galaxy Note 3 General] nicholaschum:
If what the posts said above was true, with valid evidence - Samsung must have forced Qualcomm to take action.
[Galaxy Note 3 General] Sudo77:
Here's a thought. If you are concerned for "solid evidence" why not wait for the final release of Android L, until all security features are in place and test it out? See for yourself, if it does contain the Knox flag, or container, or a similar implementation of such? And tell us your findings! At least you can rest assured that you have evidence of your own finding and contribute, instead of listening to some random guy on the net.

Also this is a public forum, so don't expect to find action, evidence, and new findings on every page. People will comment as they want to, and will often go off-topic no matter how you try to urge them to stay on track. Search different sources, if you must.

I think more people have come to the realization that the solution is much further from their grasp then originally anticipated. That is why till now you do not see a viable solution. All I have now is my theory to give in the hopes that it will spark some interest in persons more knowledgeable to escalate the matter. Not all information is pointless you know, just give it your go to share it, it may even prove useful.
[Galaxy Note 3 General] nicholaschum:
Actually I was not targeting you, more the person who I was quoting. So fear not this post is not targeted back at you. Just a general statement.

I'm not expecting to find action, evidence and new findings on every page, but there IS no action anywhere. Just everyone blindly speculating what the future holds.

No I wasn't "concerned for solid evidence", I was more focused on what a specific person states and claims. It seems like many people just think they're right on these forums and provide information "from their experience" or because they read up an article explaining what Qfuses are and they think they're a know-it-all. I don't prefer being fed information from an unreliable/non-existent source, but many people have PM'd me saying things that they believe are true about KNOX but in a sense are total baloney. If you ask someone about it face to face and they explain to you, and then you ask them to "point it out and explain step by step" where they got the idea from, half of them will be like "IDK", "I read on the forums", "Chainfire said so, and he's always right", "I read a thread from 6 months ago and they said so!".

I say we keep these major threads quieted down in the sense that people either a) pledge a bounty or b) go to the development thread and do some research before just posting about law or when people are sh*t happy a root without KNOX tripping is out (not talking about you but I followed this thread since it was posted on day 1). As this thread is to pledge a bounty for the KNOX reset, not preventing a KNOX trip, it wouldn't have benefited those people who pledged money to the greater cause before/after their KNOX has been tripped.

Dude I'm not going against you, but if a thread is to be productive, data must not be presented in a way to target problems with a simple speculation and by following the PEA paragraph structure. Remember when people speculated the world was flat, and then pursued after the people who said it was round? I'm not saying people are pursuing after each other, but if a proper argument is to be made, especially in a law firm, you can't fight a lawsuit with just "speculation".

We currently have no evidence, as you said, so we shouldn't clog up a thread for Bounties and go contribute in the dev thread instead, if you think your statements are logical and good enough as contribution. If people need hope, read the dev thread and try to understand it, rather than letting people who don't search get the benefit of the doubt. I agree, giving an opinion is great, but in the right place - that's a different story. If you plan to help, post on the dev thread. If you want to talk about it, raising more monotonous and superficial replies, feel free to say it here.
[Galaxy Note 3 General] Sudo77:
Well then, forgive me for my misunderstandings. But in truth, you where targeting a post, that was too close for comfort from my own lol, so I feel I needed to defend my ideas. It's ironic, I was thinking about the same example of "once people thought the earth was flat" as I was reading these posts. I know what you mean, we all hate misguided information but as odd as it may seem, you can derive from them to find the truth. This is how science strives, through years of research from was was mere postulation.

It is in human mindset and nature, I believe, that we all think we are right all the time. Even if not, we will hold our ideas more valuable then to those around us. It is something we must overcome by looking at people's other points of view and being empathic. It is the first step to achieving an open-mind.

Christ! I'm good. trollollol Anyways, back to Knox. I don't think my research is sufficient to post in dev forums just yet. Namely because, I the things I find, the devs have found ages ago and posting such information is redundant, wont help in the long run. But if I do, I'll go there. Right now, I want to find out the Knox flag's relationship to the container. The flag that has been reset, allows users back into the container, that means... The flag is like MAC address which registers devices to the internet (IP too but its not static) hence authorizes users to the container. This can be found by asking users the have reset Knox by flashing sboot, and param.bin. The container is only designed to be opened once... But all is speculation...
[Galaxy Note 3 General] Daved+:
Would that mean that we could just patch the knox container not to check the flag to get a working knox system on a tripped device?
[Galaxy Note 3 General] nicholaschum:
If life was just like that, won't it be great?