yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Omni Q&A] Robin>Hood:
I've read this thread, I do not develop in any way. I like this forum and I like this site.

I am a lover of technology (not all!) but this debate is not about technology. This debate is about values. And because there is no objectivity in ethics there is no definit answer to this except for a subjective one.

I totally understand the attitude versus Xiaomi, as a company, whether it's about things in the past or the present. But when there is a common enemy, I mean Xiaomi is not a developer friendly company, shouldn't people not try to help each other?

It seems morally wrong to let a small group of persons fight a war alone against a common enemy. Maybe the metaphor is a bit exaggerated but the case is there's a bunch of people trying to do what XDA is about as far as I can see. Why let a small group of people who try to do their best for a certain cause you stand for be the victim of the hate against a unethical company.. Wouldn't it be better to raise one fist instead of just a finger? Wouldn't it be nice to give some people a helping hand? Maybe it will not work out, but isn't the whole idea behind custom development/modding trial and error? I screwed up some mainboards because of using to much soldering tin but by trial and error I learned.

I'm not saying XDA should support the Xiaomi phones (which in my opinion is supporting the people who like to develop for this phone, not the company itself) but I do say it seems to be what XDA is about. At least, that is the feeling I got from this site, yes I know, I'm on here for just about a year(I tend to be a passive user before coming active so I do not start of with asking stupid questions, something I learned, I guess by trial and error, again), but to me XDA seems to be about helping people who are interested in learning about phones, in any way. But maybe I am wrong.

I'd love to see this phone get support, but I do respect the opinions of others(even when I disagree, most of the times lol). Peace out :highfive:
[Omni Q&A] m11kkaa:
What do you mean with "real development"? In my opinion source-built ROM's and developing kernels is real development.

I think the same. In my opinion creating forums for a device doesn't aim to support the company(even if it does a little bit). it supports the users and developers.
[Omni Q&A] schlumpfschlaubi:
So, this are the requirements to get a forum for a special device?

I must wonder!!! where were all the so called needed development in the past for more popular devices e.g. from samsung or sony or htc? some devices got a forum at a time you couldn't buy it, neither in europe nor usa. all you did could find in the threads were discussions about the phone and if a dev would be find for a custom rom. no work was done at this moment! why the devices did got a forum?

and a lot of roms are only modifications of stock roms!! no real development to find!

simply use a web archive and go to a device release date e.g. galaxy s3 mini and take a look in the threads!

i do follow XDA since 6 years. In the far away past XDA was a forum where devs could find together for coding custom roms or publish the already done work. For some not so popular devices XDA was the only place and chance to build up a user base, find developers and provide help for the community.

Other the time, XDA becomes one of the most popular forum for mobile devices. And now you use your position as a platform for your personal political opinion.

This was a forum from devs for devs and users. it had nothing to do with support for companies.

now you make political war against companies you don't like and punish the community bying their devices.

I think - You didn't respect the initial spirit of this forum.
[Omni Q&A] vivekb:
i don't know why moderator guys are always offensive against XIAOMI. It is a chinese company and they were marketing in China only hence they didn't feel to comply GPL but when they realized that although they are not marketing, their device reaching other part of world so they started to comply GPL. That should be welcome move. I have been on XDA for last 2 year and only because XDA doesn't allow forum for Xiaomi I moved to MIUI Android where all development work happens. Yes real development work is going on there. Some of them are kernel developer, some of them are ROM developer and some of them are ROM porter. what else called real development. Need to change view guys because change is the need of time.
[Omni Q&A] Entropy512:
And there's the core of it: The GPL is NOT region-specific. Doesn't matter if they were only marketing in China - by releasing a device with a Linux kernel and not releasing source, they were committing piracy.

In addition they effectively built a massive business out of kanging cyanogenmod to create MIUI. They are thieves plain and simple, and to atone for their past sins they need to go above and beyond.
[Omni Q&A] m11kkaa:
In china you can't be sued for violating GPL ;)

Anyway - in my opinion that's definitely no reason to not create forums for such a device because XDA is about users and devs and not about companies or any political stuff
[Omni Q&A] linuxxxx:
Hey, you must see what we did!

We have everything, and everything is opensource, don't undestand this behaviour.... and i can't stand it.

+1
[Omni Q&A] Mephisto Zap:
Xiaomi is still a very new company. There baby's in age compared to apple Samsung and the other big boys. They made a few mistakes but they made phones for China. They weren't meant to be sold in other countries. Everyone makes mistakes. People steal code from each other. Every other day it seems like someone sues each other for it. They make nice phones with a software I like byound all others ive tried. Only phone I'd leave stock. They also allow root and a few other things most main developers like Samsung try to block out. They have Hugo barra now and when they go global they will adjust and follow the rules everyone else has too.

I personally don't care about this stuff and will keep using these phones because I like them. I think a spot should be added if not I'll just be over at xiaomi.EU and rarely over here. But I like xda and want to be here. Don't you make money from ads and such? More traffic means more money and more sharing of development? Everyone wins (:

The xiaomi mi2 and mi2s are 2 different models but can share Roms with each other it means for a lot of users. The same will be true for there upcoming mi3s I'd imagine would be the same.
[Omni Q&A] maxwen:
Why you continue discussing this here? You will not find a single omni dev that will agree to add that device.
[Omni Q&A] zelendel:
Ok First of dont ever question my love for this site or for what this site is. I have been doing this long before most of you even knew what a smart phone was.

No real development work is being done outside of the MIUI team. Porting a rom is not development really. Nothing to hard about it.

What he said

You may want to relook at all the portal articles about us standing behind the GPL completely.

As for them going global. The min they do Apple and all the other big names will eat them alive for copyright issues. Hell MIUI is just a rip off of the IOS look. They would have to rework the whole look of the OS not to mention how some of stuff works.

As for money. Dont really care. That is not what this site is about. It is a developers site made for and by developers. In the end it is for them that we are here.

So in the end until they prove other wise they will always be known as just another cheap knock off. As stated they have a long road ahead before they are accepted by the android community. We will see whats left after they try to sell outside of their great China wall where they will be held liable for all the BS they try to pull with the GPL.
[Omni Q&A] zelendel:
Nor will most big name roms.
[Omni Q&A] m11kkaa:
I don't understand why u still say this. We already told u that there IS real development which has nothing todo with miui.

From from Apps over CM to kernels.
[Omni Q&A] zelendel:
So bringing apps over from CM to MIUI is development in your eyes? I have seen some of the kernels and all they do is take the kernels of other devs and change a file to boot. Nothing big here.
[Omni Q&A] linuxxxx:
Uh... Maybe people like something official http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/give-xiaomi-mi2-official-cyaogenmod-support

Since we already develop unofficial ROMs...

Inviato dal mio MI 2 utilizzando Tapatalk

---------- Post added at 07:14 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:13 PM ----------

Nothing? Click on my signature... Before say things without having googled about what u say....

Inviato dal mio MI 2 utilizzando Tapatalk
[Omni Q&A] zelendel:
Yeah this is never gonna happen. Mainly now that the CM team has joined up with Xiaomi competitor Oppo, Mix on top of them having no love whats so ever for MIUI or its creators.
[Omni Q&A] m11kkaa:
I don't know where you are looking but I for example took codeaurora source and wrote a new kernel from scratch.

And I wrote some apps for this device myself.

And linuxx wrote a toolkit for this device by himself. No porting - real development.

---------- Post added at 07:31 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:22 PM ----------

Yeah I'd expect that from the CM team but not from the OMNI team which is know as THE community rom.

Looks like this team made wrong promises.
[Omni Q&A] zelendel:
Then I am glad to see something of worth. You still need to understand that the simple fact is that the company screwed up huge in the eyes of developers and will be a long hard road for them to ever be accepted. They have about the same chance as apple does at being accepted by android devs as a whole.

There was one question I didnt reply to that I will now. Why do other devices get a forum before they even launch. This is done for devices that are known to get alot of development right out of the gate. Devices like this there is no promise of any development at all.

So only time will tell what happens with this device. Most likely will hit the same wall when they try to go global that they have been hitting for years. Copyrights and GPL
[Omni Q&A] zelendel:
It is a community based rom but you are just not getting it. Let me take all your tools. Make very few changes, then wrapp them up and make a ton of money off of them while not giving you anything. Then sit back and lol because I can do it without issue because of where I live. How would you feel then? your months of hard work claimed and cashed in by another.
[Omni Q&A] m11kkaa:
That's why u don't accept xiaomi as a company - I do understand that.

But in my opinion that has absolutely nothing todo with the decision if a device gets support of a community rom.

And btw oppo find5 got forums here when it wasn't even clear if the company will release kernel sources.
[Omni Q&A] enyx.es:
Ok. Can we at least the users have a device forum in low activity devices? I think we had enough community at least for that.

I know that xiaomi is not GPL friendly at all but I think that us the community can teach them how to do things to them TBH.

Enviado desde mi MI 2 mediante Tapatalk
[Omni Q&A] zelendel:
It was always clear that they would. Maybe not to the public. But to the people that worked closely with them.

Now if you want support then a. There must be someone working on it that owns the device. They dont add devices no one on the team owns. So it will have to come from outside the team as none of them will buy the device. b. All the work must be completely open source. With means nothing MIUI related.

Also your forgetting that MIUI has a bad habit of supporting pirated apps from their play store. Also does not go over well with most devs.

Now will they change their ways? To be honest I hope so, but until they have a proven track record that makes alot of devs forget about the past (or willing to over look it) then it is just not gonna happen.
[Omni Q&A] m11kkaa:
That's all we want. Noone ever expected the CM or OMNI team to buy the device. The team pulls the source and produces nightly builds and a device maintainer - well - maintains the code. That's how it works with all devices.

And everything except the usual qcom proprietaries is opensource - as much as nexus4 is.(this is our base)
[Omni Q&A] linuxxxx:
U're wrong... Everything u say is wrong.

1- we don't work with xiaomi, we're independent. And we have source code for everything

2-U told strange thing: if no one own the device,they won't add support.... Omg.... Do u know the meaning of verb "to read", I know it's difficult but me and [MENTION=3530648]m11kkaa[/MENTION] are working on this device.....

3-about open source: Google apps are not open sources, some xiaomi things are not open source so as u talk about xiaomi u should talk about Google.

Inviato dal mio MI 2 utilizzando Tapatalk
[Omni Q&A] zelendel:
First off. I never said that you work for them or not. Personally I dont care if you did or did not. You could be a PR rep from the company here to smooth things over with the Dev community and I still wouldnt care.

2. Ok so you 2 are working on it. Had you read what i posted you would have seen I stated that non of the Team own the device. You are not part of the team.

3. Whats so funny about it. Every MIUI rom is required to remove the appstore before it can be posted here. Do your research.

4. No google apps are not opensource. Why do you think they have to be flashed outside of the rom. CM even got a C&D order to remove the google apps from the rom.

Now to be honest I am done with this debate. We will have to see what the future holds for the company. As it stands right now. There is not enough development posted on this site to over look their past.

It is up to the company and the users to change peoples view on this matter.

Now to explain a bit. When MIUI first started, I had great hopes for its theme engine. I am huge into themes for a device and I watched what they were doing closely. When it was found out what they were doing I was greatly disappointed to say the least. So I sat back and watched while things got worse. Now they have the stupid Theme policy. To protect copyrights they say? Wow........ hypocrite much? They are stomping all over copyrights with just the icons and look. Not to mention launcher and app drawer. Then hiding behind the laws of China that dont respect Copyright laws to begin with.

Now I really do hope they change their ways. You can trust me when I say that. Releasing current and up to date kernel source is a start and I hope Hugo gets their act together. Only time will tell this for sure.

So while I am not saying it will never happen. I am saying it wont happen right now.
[Omni Q&A] m11kkaa:
I dunno how ur team works but for CM a device maintainer automatically gets part of the team once the code is merged.

And as far as I understand you you don't want to add the device because of xiaomi's mistakes.

That's completely against what a community rom should be like.

The activity of the manufacurer - even if they kill people - should not have any influence on the existence of support for custom roms
[Omni Q&A] zelendel:
If a company that made devices openly killed people then you can bet your device it would never see anything here. You act like this is only my call. One man doesnt make the call nor do I even have any say i the matter. Now you have heard from one of Omni founders. You can trust that you are in the minority on your feelings for the company and devices. While yes they may have a good following but the majority of the community is not their biggest fans.

Nuff said.
[Omni Q&A] Entropy512:
Well, if someone actually does the bringup and it's compliant with all licenses especially the GPL, then I would be amenable to merging it in.

But don't expect any of the team to go out of their way in any way for Xiaomi.

WRONG. I and a number of other RDs/SRDs all encourage the XDA admins not to create a forum for the Find5 as long as it was not GPL compliant. The Find5 forums were not created until they released source code.

http://www.xda-developers.com/android/kernel-source-released-for-the-oppo-find-5/ - if their forums were created before source was released, why is the source release announcement full of people asking for a forum?

(Since that particular article, Oppo has gone "above and beyond" in terms of cooperating with community developers. I was extremely apprehensive about them back then, but they have without a doubt proven their dedication to the opensource community and I'm now one of their biggest supporters, because of their consistent positive behavior.)
[Omni Q&A] cogano:
What a sad read.

I quit Android phones for iPhone since there was no capable phone of such a comparatively small size. All the stuff about app sandboxing and iTunes did not make me, an old linux user, happy and switched to Xiaomi Mi2S hoping for full support of CM/XDA when the time comes. I do not like all the rubbish in MIUI (while the look is nice) and hence have to live with the not yet optimal non-MIUI ROMs.

Anyway, thanks [MENTION=1140856]zelendel[/MENTION] for your clear and kind of patient replies and explanations of the Team's attitude, even that I disagree.
[Omni Q&A] linuxxxx:
Read here

So... U have no reason to decide that u won't support mi2(s)... Everything is regular....

[MENTION=591147]Entropy512[/MENTION], ur kernel is under GPL v2

Inviato dal mio MI 2 utilizzando Tapatalk
[Omni Q&A] zelendel:
Look just read what has been posted. If people are doing the work and it all plays out. Maybe it will get rom support but don't expect anyone one else to go out of their way to help with it.

But that has nothing to do with xda

Bat cave One
[Omni Q&A] linuxxxx:
We don't need any help with kernel dev. We everything is already working fine, so we're porting ROMs and trying to get official support.

BTW, as u said, u're ONE of the omni founder, not THE ONLY omni founder, so we'll speak with someone who can think and see different point of view, like [MENTION=591147]Entropy512[/MENTION]

Inviato dal mio MI 2 utilizzando Tapatalk
[Omni Q&A] zelendel:
Go back and read. I never said I was a founding member. Only that a founding member has spoken.

To be honest I couldn't care less. If you get support. Cool. If not then no harm no foul but make no mistake. Companies pay for what they do. Look at Samsung and how they treated devs. Now the ex Samsung devs like entropy have left them and moved to other oems. So why not stop and try to understand how other people feel about it instead of just your feelings and thoughts.

Now I really am done with this childish argument. Good luck in your hunt.
[Omni Q&A] schlumpfschlaubi:
then you should be so consequent and delete all threads with MIUI ROMs.

please don't support xiaomi by porting or dev MIUI for all the other devices!!!
[Omni Q&A] jwchips:
Disclosure: I volunteer my time to moderate the Bug/Beta sections at en.miui.com. I have no say in the running of the company and am not compensated in any way for my time (except for being given the occasional theme credits for moderating). I'm here on my own steam :)

I've been a MIUI user since the ol' 2.3 days, when MIUI was new and finding its feet. I remember the backlash from developers when it was discovered Xiaomi were kanging CM and not adhering to the GPL. Both of these weren't acceptable then, and are even less so now (at the time I just wanted a smooth device hehe).

The point I've come to make is that neither of these issues are active any more. MIUI is now based on stock ROMs from the manufacturer, which in my view puts them in the same boat as other stock TouchWiz based roms that appear in the i9300 development subforum. It's also been demonstrated that Xiaomi have released working source code for some devices.

The fact that pirated apps still appear in MiMarket is a valid issue and one I totally agree with, I also understand dev's frustrations at seeing there work 'stolen' (honestly I see this as an ethical issue only, as most code found here was written for *everyone* to serve the *community*, which includes MIUI. Saying that, I'd be irked if it was my code that was taken without asking or providing credit, and then seeing that code monetised so I take the point). However, this point has no place in this discussion: users/developers want a place they can bounce thoughts and make code that makes their device better in their eyes. If someone wants CM/Omni on their Mi2, you can bet they don't care about MiMarket!

Samsung has been mentioned in this thread. Weren't they well known for providing broken source for kernels? Yet I see a section for all of their devices... sure some great developers have decided not to work with them but my point is they were and still are welcome on XDA and Xiaomi is not.

Regardless of the outcome of this discussion, please everyone try to refrain from aggressive language or personal attacks. Some people have very strong feelings on this matter (on both sides, and not without reason), but we're all here on XDA for the same reason :)

TL;DR Xiaomi no longer violate GPL or kang from CM (as far as I know) and people are actively working on development - whats the problem?
[Omni Q&A] zelendel:
Oh trust me, I wanted to and if it was the majority choice then they would not be here at all.
[Omni Q&A] linuxxxx:
If you do this you won't respect xda rules... I don't know how you became a moderator if you want to do this... So u think that doing this you will destroy our (open source) work (thanks, that's xda developers philosophy) and the entire miui ROM and community, good for you... Wow I didn't know how xda was so bad... They speak about from developers to developers... Great !! That the last thing I see there, users that want to "kill" developers because an OEM didn't release some sources with the right license... Wow ....

Blame me if you want.. Doesn't matter. I've the liberty to speak and write! That's an opinion from a person, we're humans so every one can think what he/she wants.

BTW we're talking about omni ROM not xiaomi and miui, so stop this there
[Omni Q&A] zelendel:
I became a mod from years of supporting what this community is about. Long before you most likely even had your first smart phone. One thing you are mistaking is that the OEM that made the device IS the same company that makes MIUI. It is all done in house. While this has worked for apple. They went about it wrong.

Now you also need to understand it is not just about the source code for the legally required GPL kernel (which without others following the GPL, MIUI and you M2 would most likely not even be here) The MIUI devs took the hard work of others and decided to make money off it without even a proper thank you. This makes them thieves plain and simple. True developers are a close knit group with a long memory. You dont go against everything a community stands for and expect to be welcomed for it.

Now while they maybe trying to change their ways. As already stated by many. They have a very long way to go. Will it happen over night? Nope not even close. It could take years for them to be excepted and trusted again. Then again it could never happen. Only time will tell.
[Omni Q&A] linuxxxx:
Deleted, wrong therad
[Omni Q&A] SWADED:
+1

Please support Mi2S
[Omni Q&A] Khaon:
So what's the problem? Plenty of companies steal works from others, so you'll ban Samsung as they got punished by law for breaking patents?

By adding a communty, it would lead to devs of other roms like M1cha an linuxx are doing.

Furthermore, almost each devices has few porting MIUI rom, then go delete each threads. In my opinion, it is just retarded and jealous statements. Things like that happened for decades, and it wont change .
[Omni Q&A] zelendel:
Read our rules and you will see the problem.
[Omni Q&A] maxwen:
So you stick your head in the sand and hope it's getting better from that? :)