yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Galaxy Note 3 General] grifter9931:
This is one part of that hypothesis that is well thought out, I can try to add to it as well.

It's a numbers game. From each of the major "Samsung partners". You have sales units vs RMA units in a particular region and that affects things like % points for certain units sold goal vs RMA's. As a partner in order to reach the highest quarterly bonus allotment from Samsung Corp. Your numbers have to reflect a certain percentage to be within the guidelines that are set by corporate.

It maybe 1% or 3% of RMA's allowed per devices sold for one particular carrier vs another but usually that is how the quarterly bonuses are slotted to individual partners. And you have to remember the amount of $$$ involved when you have to drop a "Tier" in terms of the commitment bonus.

Example: Say a telecom in Australia dropped from a "tier" in their bonus structure because the units sold vs units RMA'd was a percentage point out from making it to their preferred tier "where they made the most $$$" because 3% of the units RMA's where from a different region.

But they took the "hit" because it went through the RMA system with that telecom's ID number and not the original region where the phone originated. As a result the numbers would be off and someone else would benefit from not having the defective units they sold for whatever reason hit their sale and bonus numbers.

I am sure Samsung tracks this via their inventory system's and therefore is probably saying to their partners "It is what it is", and the product partners are whining and moaning because of the units affecting their monetary kickback from the Corp.

At one of the many corporate retreats Samsung has for the product partners throughout the year I am sure this topic has been brought up continuously. "Grey market vs Regional Product Partners" under cutting or competing within "their" region and not having to spend anything on marketing or storefront presence etc.. But also getting the benefits of selling the product and making their personal brand even stronger to selling the Samsung branded item....

This could all be wrong and it could just be that Samsung Corp is being a complete and utter Douche bag. I don't think so amd of course YMMV..
[Galaxy Note 3 General] Tubgirl:
I think carriers are a big part of this... they're winners since you can't avoid big roaming charges...
[Galaxy Note 3 General] s2kdriver80:
Since newer and most recent devices seem to have this nuisance of a feature - is it a pure hardware mod or integrated into newer ROMs? And if the locks originate in the newer ROMs, what if I were to unlock the phone correctly and then upgrade via Odin to a newer stock ROM containing the lock - will the phone relock again?

Also, what if I had an older Galaxy S4 that was sold before the lock was implemented, and I had been using the phone for awhile now. Would upgrading to a newer stock ROM containing the lock end up locking the phone?
[Galaxy Note 3 General] tester5224:
It's wrong, you haven't read the updates.

Once you activated your device using the right SIM, it is automatically unlocked, and you can put inside any SIM card from anywhere in the world.
[Galaxy Note 3 General] Dumbo53:
Unproven. We only have annecdotal evidence of "unlocked" phones working when certain sim cards from a different region are used.
[Galaxy Note 3 General] htc6500uk:
Around half a dozen Android sites say they have tested this and it appears correct.
[Galaxy Note 3 General] BarryH_GEG:
Why? Your baseless speculation is no more or less worthy than anyone else's here - including mine. ;)

There's a couple of reasons what you suggested is improbable...

Samsung with their market dominant position can't collude with market dominate wireless carriers to create partnerships that amount to interference in free markets and threaten (pricing) competition.

Anything of the magnitude you described would have to be clearly disclosed and not forced upon previous customers when they weren't informed beforehand of the limitations they'd be facing. The government watchdogs would have a field day if Samsung made a world dominance play.

Samsung's not that smart. They've been trying to break in to content and transactions (Samsung Hub [music, video, books, apps/games], Wallet) and haven't even made a dent with a 100M+ strong captive audience.

Samsung's market share and position are huge and impressive but so were Palm's, BB's, and Nokia's. Sony and LG are both growing market share and if Samsung did anything as offensive as you described they and the wireless carriers shut out of Samsung's oligopoly would have a field day at their expense.

I like Samsung's products (I'm getting the trifecta - N3, N10.1-14, Gear) but I would turn my back on them in a heartbeat if they did something to so blatantly abuse their market position and enact something so harmful to consumers. Samsung trying to close down grey market sales is far from the scenario you described.
[Galaxy Note 3 General] dilwaala:
I'm currently residing in the UK but travel between the UK and the US very frequently.

I have just tried this on an "unlocked" contract free Note 3 purchased from Phones4u from the UK. It was first activated on the 3 network i.e. popped in the 3 SIM, turned it on, set it up, made a phone call, sent an SMS, browsed the web.

Then I powered it down, took out the SIM, popped in an ACTIVE US SIM (AT&T), turned on the phone, booted up and all worked well. No prompt to unlock, made a call, sent an SMS.

I then shut it down again, replaced the SIM back with the 3 SIM, and again, all was fine.

Just wanted to let everyone know about my experience with this.
[Galaxy Note 3 General] tester5224:
and it's backed by Samsung own statement

http://ukmobilereview.com/2013/09/samsung-statement-galaxy-note-3-region-locking/

and here from Samsung germany :

http://allaboutsamsung.de/2013/09/s...o-ab-sofort-mit-regionaler-sim-karten-sperre/
[Galaxy Note 3 General] BarryH_GEG:
Here's a problem I can see. A couple of devs found the XML file that contains a list of "acceptable" and "unacceptable" SIM codes that the unlock verification program validates against. If a valid SIM code was inadvertently left off the list or a new SIM code is created by a carrier after someone's device was shipped it would fail the region check. There could also be transposition errors in the table or typos. So Samsung's going to have to keep that table updated and error free or there's the risk of people's N3's locking when they shouldn't. I don't expect that would affect a large number of people but it's still a possible issue.
[Galaxy Note 3 General] htc6500uk:
Thanks diwaala that is further confirmation that all is as recently reported and as long as the first sim used is in the region that the phone was intended for, the Note3 will then accept all sims from all regions subsequently.
[Galaxy Note 3 General] dilwaala:
No problem at all. Just wanted to test it out myself to see if it actually worked and share my results with everyone firsthand so that they can relax a bit too (now that I know it works :))
[Galaxy Note 3 General] ShadowLea:
Just for everyone who said I was wrong about there being a software-based region lock, and that their S4's, Note 2's and S3's didn't have this: Samsung mentions they implemented this on the Samsung GALAXY S III, GALAXY Note II, GALAXY S4, GALAXY S4 mini and GALAXY Note 3.

Now stop spouting nonsense. (My source was Samsung from the start. :rolleyes:)

Also, this isn't too bad. A prepaid SIM is what, 10 bucks tops? So if you buy it for 100 less in another region, just buy the bloody 10 bucks SIMcard from a local provider and use that first.
[Galaxy Note 3 General] s2kdriver80:
Ok so it seems like starting up the phone for the first phone using any native region SIM does the trick. However, do you ALSO have to be on one of the native region's networks for it to work (e.g. not roaming)? For example, if I were to buy an unlocked phone from the UK/EU, insert any UK/EU SIM when I first start up the phone, but do it from the US (I guess it would try to latch on to AT&T's network since its frequencies are compatible with Europe).
[Galaxy Note 3 General] mathieulh:
As I have said about a dozen times on this thread, THE U.S.A. MCC IS NOT IN THE NETWORK LOCK LIST ! Trying a U.S. carrier SIM is pointless.

Here is the full MCC blacklist from the European note 3 (63 MCCs in total)

Compare it to the MCC list available here: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_country_code

to see if your country is currently blacklisted on the device.

<NetworkLock>460BB</NetworkLock>
<NetworkLock>454BB</NetworkLock>
<NetworkLock>250BB</NetworkLock>
<NetworkLock>255BB</NetworkLock>
<NetworkLock>401BB</NetworkLock>
<NetworkLock>259BB</NetworkLock>
<NetworkLock>437BB</NetworkLock>
<NetworkLock>438BB</NetworkLock>
<NetworkLock>436BB</NetworkLock>
<NetworkLock>428BB</NetworkLock>
<NetworkLock>400BB</NetworkLock>
<NetworkLock>282BB</NetworkLock>
<NetworkLock>283BB</NetworkLock>
<NetworkLock>525BB</NetworkLock>
<NetworkLock>452BB</NetworkLock>
<NetworkLock>505BB</NetworkLock>
<NetworkLock>520BB</NetworkLock>
<NetworkLock>515BB</NetworkLock>
<NetworkLock>502BB</NetworkLock>
<NetworkLock>510BB</NetworkLock>
<NetworkLock>456BB</NetworkLock>
<NetworkLock>414BB</NetworkLock>
<NetworkLock>457BB</NetworkLock>
<NetworkLock>404BB</NetworkLock>
<NetworkLock>405BB</NetworkLock>
<NetworkLock>470BB</NetworkLock>
<NetworkLock>413BB</NetworkLock>
<NetworkLock>429BB</NetworkLock>
<NetworkLock>603BB</NetworkLock>
<NetworkLock>602BB</NetworkLock>
<NetworkLock>432BB</NetworkLock>
<NetworkLock>425BB</NetworkLock>
<NetworkLock>604BB</NetworkLock>
<NetworkLock>424BB</NetworkLock>
<NetworkLock>416BB</NetworkLock>
<NetworkLock>606BB</NetworkLock>
<NetworkLock>420BB</NetworkLock>
<NetworkLock>418BB</NetworkLock>
<NetworkLock>286BB</NetworkLock>
<NetworkLock>412BB</NetworkLock>
<NetworkLock>724BB</NetworkLock>
<NetworkLock>370BB</NetworkLock>
<NetworkLock>338BB</NetworkLock>
<NetworkLock>374BB</NetworkLock>
<NetworkLock>706BB</NetworkLock>
<NetworkLock>734BB</NetworkLock>
<NetworkLock>714BB</NetworkLock>
<NetworkLock>712BB</NetworkLock>
<NetworkLock>740BB</NetworkLock>
<NetworkLock>704BB</NetworkLock>
<NetworkLock>708BB</NetworkLock>
<NetworkLock>710BB</NetworkLock>
<NetworkLock>744BB</NetworkLock>
<NetworkLock>748BB</NetworkLock>
<NetworkLock>736BB</NetworkLock>
<NetworkLock>732BB</NetworkLock>
<NetworkLock>722BB</NetworkLock>
<NetworkLock>730BB</NetworkLock>
<NetworkLock>716BB</NetworkLock>
<NetworkLock>621BB</NetworkLock>
<NetworkLock>620BB</NetworkLock>
<NetworkLock>639BB</NetworkLock>
<NetworkLock>257BB</NetworkLock>

---------- Post added at 11:25 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:23 PM ----------

There is no whitelist, the MCC list is a blacklist. So any unknown MCC that isn't in the list is not going to trigger the network lock.

The list doesn't contain the full MNC either, ("BB" in the list in a wildcard replacing the last 2 digits of the MNC so any sim for a given MCC matches the list) only the MCC. So unless a new country pops out of nowhere, there isn't going to be an unknown new MCC anytime soon.
[Galaxy Note 3 General] DMax99:
Really? How did you come up with that conclusion? The article says no one has been able to try any of those stock yet, so no one can confirm it at this stage?!
[Galaxy Note 3 General] non1oson:
hey man cheers for this, but could you explain something to me please?

judging by that list 530 is not in it. I'm on 530 MCC in New Zealand. so this says my note 3 from handtec UK WOULD work without locking me out, is that right? I can see Australia is 505 and is in that list. how are they different to us? are samsung being kind to the kiwis or something?
[Galaxy Note 3 General] tossero:
[MENTION=777123]mathieulh[/MENTION]

Thank you for this ! :)

Just to be sure , if I buy an european version of Note 3 it will work in Martinique without any problems ?

Cheers~
[Galaxy Note 3 General] weasley:
Does it mean I cant use it with a Hong Kong Sim Card (454) at all with the European Note 3?
[Galaxy Note 3 General] non1oson:
looks like you can't :(
[Galaxy Note 3 General] medohussein544:
what about using europian note 3 ( T mobile version ) from austria in Egypt in middle east
[Galaxy Note 3 General] mathieulh:
I would like to add that given the fact that this list is hold inside the CSC, you are only a software update away from Samsung to modify that list and either remove or add MCCs to it.

P.S. You now have the current list and the Wikipedia page with MCCs in it, I am not going to look up a country for you, you have everything you need to figure on your own if your country is blacklisted.

I don't own an American handset so I can't get the list from those.

From previous reports on xda it's fairly obvious that European MCCs are in there though.
[Galaxy Note 3 General] Scootmien:
That is almost exactly what I want to do. I'm glad it worked for you as it gives me comfort.
[Galaxy Note 3 General] non1oson:
an update from samsung yes, however if we decide to custom ROM it, it wouldn't matter right.
[Galaxy Note 3 General] Pulverizer:
Curious how can you "Activate" activity.

Dear dilwaala, I have two question about you mentioned "Activate"

1) Just curious, exactly what you mean the "Activate"? I would like exactly how can we "Activate" note3

From Galaxy S4(GT-I9505) and Startup Wizard does not include any "Activate" function or popup.

It means From Note3 , any "Activate" activy added in Startup wizard?

You mean "Activate" is just insert 3(three) SIM and process Setup wizard, that's it?

2) When you got Note3 retail box, your Note3 retail box have "Europe region lock" sticker?

Thank you for your information.
[Galaxy Note 3 General] mathieulh:
I do not have the slightest idea about how Samsung engineers came up with that list and why they would lock a country or another, all I know is there is a fancy MCC network lock list on my phone and 63 countries are currently listed in there with a specific lock enforced to those.

The funny part is that in theory one wouldn't even need to actually unlock the phone (using the matching NCK) you could just modify the CSC to remove that list and the network lock routine would never be called (even if the EFS/NVM is still defined with the specific lock enforced). Of course unlocking the phone with the NCK is better since although the network lock routine would then be called, the EFS/NVM would be unlocked and the SIM accepted regardless of the list.

Right now the only known ways to unlock your devices are:

- Either somehow get Samsung to do it for you.

- "Activate" the device with a matching region SIM (or so Samsung claims, I'll believe it's not PR nonsense when I see it)

- Obtain and use the matching NCK for your device. According to some people those are for sale on various websites.

- Modify your device's CSC to remove the list. (Flash an unlocked devices' region CSC though ODIN if that exists or root the device and remove the list from your existing CSC)

*At this time, rooting voids your phone's warranty.
[Galaxy Note 3 General] pocketrec:
European Note 3 => Tahiti = no chance!

I can confirm that activation of an European Note 3 (which got delivered shortly before departure) can NOT be done while on Tahiti using an European Vodafone card. A local SIM card (operator VINI) is not accepted, too.

=> expensive brick in the luggage! :( :( :(
[Galaxy Note 3 General] mathieulh:
If there is an activation (and I still have doubts about that) Samsung would likely add requirements such as the SIM connecting to its home network for successful activations or at least on a network that matches the SIM's MCC if they thought of national roaming.
[Galaxy Note 3 General] medohussein544:
what about using europian note 3 ( T mobile version ) from austria in Egypt in middle east

please any one tell me
[Galaxy Note 3 General] BarryH_GEG:
Thanks so much for what you've contributed to this thread. I didn't mean to misquote the stuff (the exception list) you'd posted earlier but I couldn't find your original posts as they kind of got lost in this thread.

If you don't mind, can you kind of explain the mechanics of how the new process works compared to a regular SIM unlock? Also, does the process live somewhere that it'll survive a hard reset?

Thx again. .
[Galaxy Note 3 General] pocketrec:
Vodafone doesn't seem to have a roaming agreement in French Polynesia. That might explain why the activation with the European Vodafone card doesn't work.

=> So it is not about having a "home" SIM card, but it needs to be able to "call home", too. (Anyone else thinking of Ed Snowden's revelations at this very moment??? :))

However, for a 700 Euro business phone, this is simply unacceptable!!!

My (rhetorical) question: "Wasn't anyone at Samsung thinking about this possibility upfront, i.e. that there might be NO roaming agreements in some parts of the worlds? After all, this is a highly expensive business phone, which implies that its buyers might simply... *travel*!"
[Galaxy Note 3 General] mathieulh:
From my understanding (so far) there is a specific Network lock enforced in the EFS/NVM, so far like your average carrier simlock, expect that in this case it is initially not tied to any specific MNC, at least not within the EFS/NVM itself, therefore on its own, this lock would never trigger, what happens is that a list of MNCs (strictly composed of MCCs with wildcards) is loaded from the CSC at boot (probably to the baseband itself but I am not 100% sure about this) and once a SIM's MNC is determined it is compared against the previously loaded list, if there is a match, the network lock routine gets called. If your network lock level is sufficient (if your device has been unlocked with the right NCK) the lock will be ignored, otherwise the baseband will not let you access the SIM and will prompt for the NCK.

I have yet to disassemble the baseband firmware to see if there is any trace of that so called "Activation" Samsung has been referring to. I won't have time anytime soon since I'll be traveling in Japan for the next two weeks.
[Galaxy Note 3 General] medohussein544:
what about using europian note 3 ( T mobile version ) from austria in Egypt in middle east

plz anyone reply me
[Galaxy Note 3 General] Superdad_98:
Based on the list supplied Egypt is blocked, the phone must be activated first in europ then you might be able to use it in Egypt

Egypt mmc code is 602
[Galaxy Note 3 General] mathieulh:
I posted the list of MCCs involved and the Wikipedia page listing all of the MCC with their matching countries, it's only a matter of looking for "Egypt" in the page and see if the MCC is in the list I put on my previous posts. I also stated that I wouldn't do the simple compare job every time someone asks me if their country is in the list and that they'd have to look it up on their own.

P.S. it's MCC 602 by the way, and yes it's blacklisted, it's the last time I look it up for anyone, please stop asking.
[Galaxy Note 3 General] Wacco001:
Guess you first had to activate that European Note 3

in Europe

..

Please have a look at this URL for more info ..

Cheers,

---------- Post added at 01:20 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:14 AM ----------

Thanks for being patient and polite to answer that question (although the poster could have found the answer himself if he would have taken the time and a tiny bit of effort to just read what you've posted before ...)

Out of thanks, so that's the reason I post my thank .. :)
[Galaxy Note 3 General] pocketrec:
Unfortunately, Samsung didn't tell me that *before* I ordered the Note 3! As the parcel arrived literally minutes before my departure to the airport, I just put it into the travel luggage. Just to find out that I bought an expensive piece of car that can make right turns only. And I was on my way to a country that has left turns on their streets, too. Weird, isn't it? :)

But seriously, the reason why I was actually entering into this conversation was that a network lock for French Polynesia (547) according to the list above should *not* be included in the European model - but obviously it is blocked!
[Galaxy Note 3 General] mathieulh:
Hum... that's odd, what's your device CSC ? Is it XEF ?

Unfortunately I do not own a non European or any locked SIM card here so I can't check if my device is successfully "Activated" there might be more to the network lock that I have found so far. Also some CSC have different network codes (I grabbed mine from the XEF CSC) for instance, Slovakia's CSC has no networks in its lock list.
[Galaxy Note 3 General] pocketrec:
Germany. Most likely that explains everything... they just don't like Germans down here! :D :D :D
[Galaxy Note 3 General] mathieulh:
Hum... I don't have the DEB CSC on my device so I can't check.

Can you post the list from /system/csc/costumer.xml on your device ?

Use an app like fx explorer to get to it.

Maybe the CSC list is unrelated to the effective region lock, it could have been a test until they moved everything elsewhere such as the baseband, or its just used for something else entirely though I can't think of anything else it'd be there for. Unfortunately I don't have the time to look into it further so far :/

It'd be a lot easier if I had rooted my phone as I could watch the activity in real time and get logs, I am just not too keen on voiding my warranty right now so this isn't an option for me.
[Galaxy Note 3 General] pocketrec:
I will get it done as soon I am back on the grid... boarding to Maupiti has just been announced!

Thanks a lot for helping with this. I am seriously p***ed o** with Samsung at this very moment...
[Galaxy Note 3 General] grifter9931:
Try calling your telecom state your case and hopefully they will help you as a customer who happens to be a world traveler, with a new enterprise device. If they try to charge you for the unlocking, accept and then when you get back home. I would have it removed or go all "Scorched Earth" on them...

Customer retention was refunding me whatever they charged me. Also you are in one of the most gorgeous places on earth and you are on your phone? Hopefully its a business trip and not a pleasure trip... That phone wouldn't have seen the light of day until I hit the airport on the way back ... Thats just me though.. Have fun, and hopefully the sets @ Teahupoo are killer!!!!!
[Galaxy Note 3 General] dilwaala:
Nothing special in regards to activation. Just popped the SIM in (3), booted, went through the first time phone setup, made a call. That's about it.

And yup, the box was retail and it did have the Europe Region warning sticker on it.
[Galaxy Note 3 General] non1oson:
so I can see how samsung is preventing the grey market. however, it sucks for genuine purchasers like myself.

I've asked handtec to do the follow before sending to me in New Zealand (regardless at this stage it should work on my network because I'm not in the locked list mathieulh has kindly provided)

"hi nick, can you do this for me please:

first activate on the 3 network i.e. pop in the 3 SIM, turn it on, set it up, send an SMS.

Then power it down and send me the phone."

I've already pre ordered so they have my money. maybe they'll use a little initiative and just do it. keep their customers happy.

it'll be about 16 hours from now till I get a reply and can post up. if I don't reply in 16 hours with the outcome. it'll either be because it's the weekend there, or he has given my email to his manager.