yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro General] DaleReeck:
When you say "SD card ultra speed 2 GB", I assume you mean the Sandisk Ultra II 2GB SD card? Or is it a different one? I have the Sandisk card (two in fact) and they both work fine. Why can't you use it?

With a decent SD card, 64MB RAM/128MB ROM is more than enough memory. More memory would be nice, but I would try getting your SD card working - which is something you can do something about. Putting more memory in the JasJar isn't something you can do anything about so it's no use fretting about it IMO.

Besides, RAM is simply execution space under Windows Mobile 5 and it doesn't really have anything to do with a memory card. Unless you are running a database server on your PocketPC, most of the 128MB RAM is just wasted anyways. I have 25MB of free execution RAM available and I have over 50 apps installed on my JasJar. All the ones that have been compatible with WM5 have worked. Some don't work, but that's due to WM5, not the hardware. In any case, a larger ROM would be more useful.

Of course, this doesn't mean that there aren't things wrong with the JasJar or that it's for everybody. It's not a requirement to like it :) But IMO, memory really is the least of issues with the JasJar.
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro General] whydidnt:
Actually - they advertise 128 MB ROM and 64 MB RAM, but deliver substantially less usable space - A fresh out of box JasJar only provides the user with approximately 43 MB of Storage and 47 MB of RAM. i-mate decided to use 20 MB of our storage space for their Extended ROM to save $.10 for a CD that could have included the same programs. The programs in the ext. ROM are installed on hard reset to storage ROM, so they take up twice as much space as necessary when installed.

I for one followed all articles leading up to the release of this device and nowhere did i-mate ever say that the 64 MB RAM space would be partitioned to make it substantially smaller than advertised. Maybe you can point me to the article I missed. To make matters worse, your PIM databases are copied to RAM and loaded with WM on a reset -- so I now have over 22 MB of RAM used just by the OS and PIM information after a reset. WM5 is an a terrible memory hog! WM23kSE would only take about 13 MB's of program space after a reset (on my iPaq 4700 -- also a VGA device) So all said and done the 64 MB of RAM because about 25 MB of "program memory" in practicle terms. Many of us thought 64 MB of RAM was insufficient in WM23KSE, but we essentially are left with LESS useable RAM with the JasJar. So yes, I am disappointed.
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro General] nabil2000:
heat

Wow, is that heated or what...

You know, it does not matter what it is, at the end of the day the customer is king. and if the customer wants more of everything so be it, make a jasjar slim and a jasjar fat with all gadgets and whistles, and so everyone is happy.

Folks this is about choice, give your customers choice, and everyone is happy...

Dell understands that, and this is why they are Kings in the marketplace, because they build to customers' wishes...

I published my wishes somewhere, and top of the list now that I am more aware of the issues are more rom (4 GB onboard would have done me gr8 8) )

Greetings dudes....
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro General] dreamtheater39:
Confused!!!!!!!!!!

Hi everyone!

I've been a big time gadget freak, and will always be one....and obviously, the JJ has been a device i've been waiting, following, for the last 6 months!

I'm still waiting for a dealer release in the country i live in (its a lousy country - we get things 3 months after its released in other countries - india!!!) and am more than anxious and rather desparate to buy it!

I currently have an XDA 2 running on WM5, and this whole thing about a memory crunch scares the daylights out of me!

Here's what i have on my current XDA 2

1. 128 Megs RAM - YESSS!!!, and when the device starts up fresh, i have 100megs free ram, and when i start every damn app that i've installed, it drops to 65megs of free ram...so, i'd technically never run out of ram ever...

2. 30megs of storage space (this is a small constraint that i can work around easily, as i'd never need over 20megs which goes on device storage)

3. 520mhz cpu speed (obviously overclocked....but runs smooth, no lock ups or anything)

I'm still contemplating whether it's worth investing so much money into this beast, when it doesnt have enough ram :?

I've never seen - 4mb free ram ever on my device, and that feels ridiculous...i feel kind of pinched when i see just "70megs" free on my device, and close a few apps running :)

Looking at what i'd gain by investing more on a jj -

1. a 640x480 screen (still no VGA hack....but i'm hoping it will be out someday)

2. built in wifi

3. 3G

4. better cam

5. keyboard

I wouldnt mind paying so much and gain so little over my previous device, as i'm a gadget freak, and would sell my spare kidney to buy a device! But then, a limited RAM is like a bloody disappointment and is giving me second thoughts....

Its like a ferrari with just 2 gears!! :)

Your thoughts? Someone prove me wrong :)

San
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro General] trendystyle:
Re: Confused!!!!!!!!!!

This is what I was talking about, but I never had the chance to read from anyone in any forum, that there was issue like that when I bought it 10 days ago, if I could, I would have waited!!!!!

Every damn review I read, the Jasjar was supplied by Expansys, and more or less, they were all enthusiast, nobody talk about the lack of Ram
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro General] trendystyle:
Ia m sorry this is not correct, not 15 applications, spb today only, plus my PIM( 5 MB) loaded on the RAMy, if you still consuming RAM, as uninstalling prog, most of the time, there's a message the prog was not totally uninstalled, I go and check, and the prog is still there, consuming RAM
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro General] sub69:
Make your mind up...
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro General] sub69:
@ 'whydidnt'....You're absolutely right that there's some space taken up on the ROM by the pre-installed programs and OS, and those also use up some of the RAM.

I'd rather have an operating system and some programs pre-installed than 128 + 64Mb of free memory though. Agreed, they could have slimmed down the ROM a bit, and may do so in the future. If not, I'm sure someone here will release a BIGSTORAGE ROM one day, but I'm sure everyone is aware that any computer's memory is reduced by pre-installed programs?

The point is that there's nothing wrong with the JasJar as it is...so what if you may be ble to get an extra 20Mb of ROM, when you already have a 2Gig SD plugged in?

And what's the problem with RAM being used to run programs? That's the way computers work isn't it? 64 meg is plenty for anyone who uses compatible software and doesn't try and run ridiculous amounts of software simultaneously...as mackaby007's 'stress test' thread shows.
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro General] trendystyle:
Are you working for some enterprises/company/manifacturer related or involved in HTC Universal & bros???

If the answer is yes, declare it, because it seems that you are far too much on that side, a Jasjar buyer, no matter what, couln't be but happy, about improvement we are crying for!!!!!!!!!
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro General] sub69:
Nope, I'm just a realist.

I guess I'm just more a bit more careful than some of the people around here? I knew what I was getting BEFORE I went out and spent my money.

Sounds like some people around here didn't 'do their homework' very well, and now they're trying to blame the manufacturer for 'cheating', 'tricking', 'screwing' them etc.

To use the car analogy from earlier, if you've gone out and bought a new BMW, you shouldn't ***** and moan when you get home and decide that the top speed isn't really enough for you and you want a few extra cc's under the bonnet. That wouldn't be BMW's fault, and your 'issues' with HTC aren't their fault.
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro General] trendystyle:
You did your homework???

Give a read to this.... I-mate website...

i-mate™, the specialists in Microsoft® Windows Mobile™ devices and applications, are pleased to announce the advent of a new level in high-speed mobile experience with the launch of the i-mate™ JASJAR. This ultimate device allows users to enjoy powerful internet browsing and dynamic multi-media features for business, for pleasure, for life. The i-mate™ JASJAR offers the most advanced set of features yet including a full VGA screen, 520MHz Intel processor and 128MB of Permanent Memory, built-in Computer Associates® eTrust Antivirus software*, Skype™ internet telephony software*, i-mate™ global warranty and access to the exclusive support and services on offer at club i-mate™ web portal.

And this is what has been delivered???

Try to see a movie.... At a decent rate, high speed? iS BY FAR SLOWER THAN MY ASUS 420bt, 1 AND A HALF YEAR OLD!!

Go back home, and do the homework, really!!
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro General] sub69:
I assume you're talking about a QVGA device but I've never heard of an Asus 420? In any case, yes I can get 25fps video (I mentioned my settings in another thread here earlier today)

Anyway. This arguement is going nowhere. I'm happy that what was advertised is what I got, and you're 'crying' for extra features. By all means keep crying, just don't 'expect' more than you have a right to.
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro General] zach:
Just my opinion

I got my XDAII when it first came out, and back then it was the best device.

was it buggy? Unbelievably. But I loved it, and all of the problems and limitations it had were pretty much resolved within the first 6 months (for me).

Since the XDAII I had not felt the urge to upgrade until I saw the JasJar.

So, Last week I got the Jasjar.

Is it buggy? YES. In the sense that it needs to get leaner and faster.

We still need to start modifying the external ROM, and to get rid of stuff we don’t all need or use.

However, I have to admit that it is very stable for me in less than 1 week.

is it architecturally crippled? NO

For me 64MB dedicated to RAM will be sufficient, Once MS works out the bugs in memory management.

I am fully aware that I will be doing a lot of ROM Upgrades, I actually hope that I will be doing them.

The worst scenario is what happened to the MPX owners out there when MOTO dropped it.

Do I think that wm5 is still in beta? No it is not , but it is a new release and since we all use our devices differently with different software, we are entitled to our opinions, they are all correct

I am fully aware that not all software is yet

optimized/compatible with it.

that’s ok . The more wm5 devices sold, the faster Developers will fix their apps.

So I would say that I love my JJ and I look forward to working on it :P
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro General] jaythemagician:
Trendystyle- get yourself a sony psp, i heard that plays games well
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro General] trendystyle:
Sorry for mistyping...

Asus Mypal 620 BT, 420 MHz cpu, I confirm, much faster, I confirm 1 and a half year old, and the Jasjar is fast???
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro General] trendystyle:
Re: Just my opinion

This is what I wrte two hours ago...

http://xdaforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=163577#163577

And I love the Jasjar too, this is why I am so mad...

This doesn't suppose I-mate people to relax, but to hurry up, and come out with new roms, i.e. why shold I care for files imate grass.tsk(2.15 MB) and imate swoosh(2.03 MB), are theme, normal theme are around 100K, 200K, and take awaty 4 MB of my damn memory, tryed to delete, them, is not possible!
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro General] trendystyle:
Hello???

Don't you think I already have it??

I bought it 3 days after the japanese launch, that's a kicking butts device!
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro General] dreamtheater39:
@trendystyle

I have a few questions to understand things better....

1. They claim that the jj has 64MB ram. However, in Memory app, you see just 43megs.....what does this mean???? Where did the remaining memory disappear??

2. I'm running my xda2 on wm5, with 128megs RAM(previously shared as ram & storage on wm2003) & 30 megs as storage (the 32 mb doc - previously divided as extended rom[16megs] and user storage disk[14megs]). When my device boots up, it shows RAM = 121megs total; Total free (on a freshly installed device) = 104megs...

Now this implies, wm5 consumes roughly 18megs to run....

On a JJ, i assume, should be almost the same (unless additional drivers are a little more bloaty etc..). Assuming 20megs of ram usage, you should technically be left with 64MB - 20MB = 40MB....but however, it starts showing total RAM = 43MB....

So, i'm assuming you just have free ram = 43MB - 20MB = 23MB

So, on a fresh device, with nothing at all installed, do you have just 23-28megs of ram????!!!

If thats the case, i'm definitely going to withdraw from the very idea of buying one of these!

Thanks in advance for your patience!

San
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro General] trendystyle:
Unluckily, at the moment, the fresh device comes as you said, but a lot of garbage is installed from the very start at the setup from the rom, to the ram.

If I-mate, would clear up some space, as I said in the post before, taking away stupid .tsk theme, it' 4,5 MB you gain, then, they should let us install what we want to have on the jasjar, as they did on my Asus, on a simple 30 cents cd, you install what you want, whther you'll use at simple phone, or an hardcore user, it will be up to you.

At the moment, this is the situation, but as you understand, if they would just listen to us, with a new, skinnier rom, everything would be solved, tehy would deliver, skype, or CA antivirus, and it would be up to you, to use certain space, or not!

It's quite simple!!
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro General] whydidnt:
The "problem" is that you don't GET 64 MB of RAM to use to run programs. You only get about 28 MB of RAM to run your programs. If your ever tried to run a GPS program with a big map, along with WMP and perhaps have PocketInformant open - you will run out of memory or crash the device due to lack of RAM. The comparisons to desktop RAM are not relevant, since Windows XP uses a page file that allows it use your hard desk as extra needed RAM when the physical RAM is used up. WM5 does not provide this feature - When your memory is gone, it's gone and there's nothing you can do about it.

Most everyone buying this device is going to be a power user and the lack of available RAM will be a hinderance, whether you care to believe it or not. I can only say, try using the device for a week and see for yourself.
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro General] dreamtheater39:
i'm talking about the RAM situation and not the ROM....

so, extended rom installs, go into the storage root (flash rom) and not ram...

I'm just concerned abt the RAM being over consumed at startup, and too little for other proggies to run....

???

Thanks for your reply!

San
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro General] whydidnt:
This isn't exactly a solution to the issue - even if none of the EXT. ROM apps aren't installed on hard reset, you still are left with only 30 MB of free RAM. The problem is that JasJar has used about 16 MB's of RAM in a hidden partition even before Windows loads - then MS, as they tend to do, bloated the OS to take up over 19 MB of space on boot, then to make matters worse, they decided to copy all of you PIM data to RAM upon boot, so if you have a decent amount of PIM information you lose another 2-3 MB of RAM. 64 MB of RAM on a WM5 device is not near as much as it was on a WM23kSE device.
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro General] trendystyle:
Right, and I have 4,6 MB of PIM!!! Sigh!
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro General] trendystyle:
Right, as I said, they will have to improve it, via firmware/ rom, to free up some ram, as when you setup the Jasjar, as it's new, you will see that it goes, and start up an installation, in that installation is full of SW that maybe you don't care, if they give us the freedom to decide what to install, and what not, we' are done and it's ok!

On WM 2003, there was a possibility to tune the memory on storage or program, why they took it away??
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro General] cr2:
Re: Just my opinion

Yes, it is crippled. Compare it with hx4700

and Blueangel designed by HTC.

In Universal they have dropped the ATI video

chip, and halved the RAM. Only to put a 3G

chipset that is nothing but a milk cow for the

providers.

A real engineer will put the VGA LCD into Blueangel

(it is only slightly bigger ) and enable the USB host that is already there!!!

Keep in mind that the device has 2 SDIO

controllers.
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro General] dreamtheater39:
thanks trendy... !

I guess i'll wait for either -

1. A patch/ rom released so that, theres atleast 32megs ram free on a soft reset

or

2. the next version of the JJ with 128megs ram :D

[the 3rd hidden option] Buy one out of desparation and insane gadget obsession!

Thanks!

San
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro General] trendystyle:
I installed memaid, and cleaned up the "garbage" file around, I now have 12MB, is not wonderful, but it's ok!

Still, with the possibly 20 MB plus, promised on the new rom, from HTC, we should arrive to 32MB, that would be more than fair! :lol:
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro General] trendystyle:
Now, somebody might guess they should have included memaid as a part of the SW in the Jasjar...????
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro General] no1:
Re: Just my opinion

That's not good, are you sure they've removed it? Does anyone know what video chip their using now? Will we still get graphics acceleration? For example The Core Media Player made use of the ATI chip to accelerate video playback.

Can anyone who's got a Universal run some benchmarks so we can compare with current devices?
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro General] cr2:
Re: Just my opinion

I don't have a disassembled Universal, but i'm

pretty sure, because of many other known facts.

The LCD controller built in the PXA270 CPU.

Not as with ATI and betaplayer.
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro General] nabil2000:
looks can be deceiving

The universal looks so good on the outside.

But it is not a power pda, it has minimum configuration to allow it to do minimal day to day tasks.

e.g. I have over 700 MB worth of emails, can I download them all to rom, no I cannot, to an SD, yes but it will be a waste of space... so they knew about it, and they give me the option on sync to only download a certain amount of space for each email...

The unit was created to optimise everything, including costs of manufacture...

Now when some argue that HTC just does what it is told, they are naive, HTC has a say in what it manufactures, as ultimately they are the best players to guarantee that the device will operate to specs or not, plus it is a team effort with Intel, MS, and what have you; however as a buyer (like Dell, i-mate...etc), you do have a say for some variations beyond a minimum specs scenario..

I strongly believe that this is a test device (Universal/Jasjar) to find out what is the minimum specs that users will need, and with this outcry I am sure in a few months a Universal II will crop up with the extra bits some of us want (albeit not necessarily need).

It is just plain textbook marketing matching needs and demands, even if the demand is artficial.

Another opinion is that Universal was rushed into market to be the first device to use WM5, and so this might explain some of the glitches we witnessed...

We can always sell it (at 60 % of its value if we are lucky;) )

I choose not to sell or return mine because I like experimenting with computers and digital stuff...

Greetings ;)
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro General] mackaby007:
Sub69: what is your problem? If your happy with your jasjar f..k off to another thread where you might be of some use to someone! :twisted:

feel free to express your opinions by all means, but don't try to enforce your opinion on others who have genuine reasons for complaint!

Just because your life revolves around your hobby and you have your head too far buried up your arse to see the the problems others are experiencing, doesn't change the facts. OK maybe some of us didn't do our homework to the degree you pretend to have done, but the simple facts remain...the jasjr underperforms in areas where its' predecessors didn't!

I assure you of this, other manufacturers are learning from the mistakes of the HTC/MS collaboration in relation to the jasjar. It won't be long before someone incorporates Dells philosophy on giving consumers what they are actually asking for and not a feature rich device which, yes, does deliver, but like a retired athlete as opposed to a new champion, if you follow my analogy.

Your quick to quote and criticise others but I wonder how much of your research you understood, as you can't even understand a simple analogy:

So let me break it down for you. My point with the BMW was that the software side of the on-board computer were at fault which in turn caused the new owner problems with the rest of his car and consequently is inconvenienced, possibly to the point of loosing valuable time, money etc...does there need to be any more losses?

Why do you defend the object so? Like I said, if your happy with it, be a good boy and post something helpful elsewhere as you obviously are not doing it here. And on that note, so will I.

This is a great site for the devices we have bought, but if HTC or Microsoft would actually do their part in actually supporting the product they have jointly put together, 75% of their ridiculous profits would undoubtedly go towards wages for their technical support staff worldwide.

This thread has become far too heated. Let's just get on with getting these lovely specced machines to run as good as is possible, without further hardware inrpovements and I'm sure we'll all be happy. :lol:
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro General] nabil2000:
my last bit

Well as far as the usb hosting is concerned, there was a few newscast/blogs from usually reliable tech sources, scattered on the internet, that claimed it did have that.

On that basis I made my purchase.

It was a mistake and I learnt from it.

However I asked repeatedly i-mate to confirm if usb hosting was available, and they kept ignoring me (this is while I was in the 28 days period where I could have returned the device and gotten my money back).

I had to write to HTC direct to get confirmation that Universal does not support usb hosting...

Greetings

Nabil H
[JASJAR, XDA Exec, MDA Pro General] mackaby007:
Hi nabil. Funny you should mention that, about the 28 day thingy. i bought my jasjar from Inkino in Tottenham court road (who came very highly recommended on other posts), but when I called them 3 days after my purchase to speak them regarding a full refund (I explained that the jasjar didn't deliver or perform according to the advertised specs), they tried the angle 'We don't have a 'Change of mind' policy. Who the hell told them it was a change of mind? I understood the stance they were taking and as I'm not too clued up on the law, re-assesed my position.

I really do like the device anyway, I just resent paying top dollar for something I didn't get. I paid for a fully functioning Universal based on specs. It now seems like I bought it on pure speculation! :shock:

Truth be told, I don't mind either way....I'm a Universal convert all the way. Just wish they'd put right what they are still working on!

Funny thing is, USB hosting is one of the features that swung it for me too.