yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Other SmartWatches] darkproximity:
The system on chip they're using for the GSM Pine is of the same exact family as the one they're using for the CDMA version. The Snapdragon S4 Play, or more specifically the MSM8225 for GSM and MSM8625 for CDMA. They don't need to redesign the entire watch for CDMA, just use the CDMA SoC and an antenna (the antenna neptune specifically mentioned would be expensive to have designed, which is why it was a stretch goal for CDMA)

You also mention nobody over there has access to CDMA chipsets? Are you referring to China? China Telecom operates a CDMA2000 network, so there definitely are phones used in China on a CDMA network. Qualcomm (who makes the Snapdragon SoC) has offices in China, and was the company who pioneered the commercialization of cdmaOne (IS-95) and CDMA2000. I think it would be pretty easy for Chinese manufacturers to get their hands on CDMA radio chipsets.

Neptune has stated they have applied for FCC approval, and one would imagine that would include operating on CDMA based networks in addition to GSM. Whether or not they already have a working CDMA version for the FCC to test, I dont know. It's possible a small enough CDMA antenna exists for neptune to use in the pine; but the stretch goal money was needed to place a large enough order, as some manufacturers require a minimum number of units per order to make it profitable for them.
[Other SmartWatches] vectron:
I was referring to the fact (actually, expressing it my opinion) that most of these KS/IGG projects don't do any electronic design from ground up and subcontract design work to manufacturers in China who use "bulding" lego blocks to design per spec. Availability of technology and access to it are two different things because in the last year I have been watching very closely all sim-card based smartwatch releases from dx.com and alibaba and haven't seen any 4G LTE based CDMA device (doesn't matter if its android or their proprietary os). I guess Qualcomm's S4 is the latest release with different options.

I only stating a fact that it will take a long time to approve anything from Verizon, and I completely agree with other forum members who stated the same. If Pine going to come up with 4G LTE CDMA version - that's awesome, considering technology is available. Now, if its really going to happen or not, the bare announcement was a big PR move to get everybody talking about it.

The open question, I only see someone named "Jared Fritts" on Pine KS talking about these two chipsets (which you have quoted in your reply). Has anybody from Pine confirmed it? Or is that Jared guy works for Neptune?
[Other SmartWatches] darkproximity:
I, along with several others on the ks page; and even here on xda, have been talking about the snapdragon s4 play, as Neptune themselves have specifically mentioned it in their details page, and mentioned the exact SoC models in the comments to backers.

Neptune never said anything about 4G LTE for CDMA, as LTE wont be an option for either. The Snapdragon S4 Play doesn't have an LTE radio, which in all honesty doesn't matter much to me and likely most other backers. The differences I've seen locally with LTE and HSPA+ on T-Mobile is negligible. In fact download speeds in my area on hspa+ are faster than lte. Higher upload speeds and slightly lower latency are the only things LTE is doing better at here.

Posts by Neptune on kickstarter:

1) Regarding FCC approval:

"3MA: We've started the certification process for CE and FCC about 2 weeks ago. It usually takes around 5 weeks to get the certifications, so we're looking at around mid-January as a timeline."

Dec 19, 2013 on Neptune Pine: Smartwatch. Reinvented..

2) Regarding the System on Chip for CDMA:

"randy: You are right, the CDMA version will use MSM8625 so therefore Android 4.3 is a strong possibility on that version. We are indeed in confidential discussions with CDMA network providers in the U.S. Sorry we may not reveal their names (there are only a few of them so you know who they are. )"

Dec 18, 2013 on Neptune Pine: Smartwatch. Reinvented..

3) Regarding the System on Chip for GSM along with mentioning the Snapdragon S4 by common name:

"randy: It is indeed true that for some models of Snapdragon S4 Android 4.3 has been made available. However, for our specific model, MSM8225, the most recent drivers released from Qualcomm are 4.1.2. We are eagerly waiting for a newer OS version from Qualcomm."

Dec 18, 2013 on Neptune Pine: Smartwatch. Reinvented..

Source:

http://www.kickstarter.com/profile/neptune/comments

Also mentions the Snapdragon S4:

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/neptune/neptune-pine-smartwatch-reinvented/description
[Other SmartWatches] vectron:
So how are they going to run it on Verizon without support of 4G LTE?!?
[Other SmartWatches] RudeReality:
The REAL question is the time frame for Verizon to approve the Pine for use on their network. I would really like to know this more than anything else, due to my restrictions concerning coverage where I live. Certification from Verizon is a make or break for me, and I'm still looking into my GSM options...but coverage and service are big issues when looking elsewhere in my locale. Hoping there will be some answers concerning this after CES.

edit: don't type when you first wake up...stupid autocorrect.
[Other SmartWatches] darkproximity:
Why does it have to be on 4G LTE?

[MENTION=5622186]RudeReality[/MENTION] i think you bring up the only real question at this point. Whether verizon allows the device on their network will probably make or break the feasibility of a CDMA version for any smartwatch. If neptune is able to, it will open the door for other CDMA smartwatches
[Other SmartWatches] vectron:
How else will it work on Verizon with a sim card?
[Other SmartWatches] darkproximity:
It doesn't need a sim card. It would have to be taken into the carrier's store and have the subscriber information loaded onto it like any other CDMA based phone without LTE.

SIM cards aren't even a requirement for a CDMA based phone to access LTE. Sure most carriers are going that way but it isn't necessary.
[Other SmartWatches] vectron:
You are not on Verizon, aren't you? Just speaking as Verizon customer for a very long time, loading customer info was back in the days of old 3rd gen (3G CDMA) phones which didn't support sim cards. Starting with 4th gen (4G LTE, long term evolution), they introduced sim cards which are also backward compatible with 3G in the areas where you don't have 4G cell coverage or you are far away from a tower where signal strength is low.

So maybe with removable 4G sim card you have some transparency and can switch between your smartphone and smartwatch, but if you think that multi-billion dollar company such as Verizon will invest their time and money to add to their infostructure support of maybe a few hundred Nepture Pine "verizon" users - that's NOT going to happen.
[Other SmartWatches] darkproximity:
They dont have to add anything to their infrastructure to support additional devices. The device only needs to be capable of accepting subscriber information from verizons computer in store, which then allows the device to register on their network. I can only imagine that transfer of subscriber info to the phone is a standardized transfer.
[Other SmartWatches] vectron:
I guess you like to have the last word in every discussion, either if you are right or wrong. Let's agree to disagree, and to continue this discussion if/when Neptune Pine for Verizon is available.

... and btw, considering you joined XDA 5 years ago and only started to post here a few weeks with 2 dozen of Neptune Pine related replies, something tells me you are working for them? :D
[Other SmartWatches] darkproximity:
This isn't about having the last word, it's an open discussion that anyone is free to participate in, to whatever extent they wish. I want to dispel incorrect or misguided information so that other people who read this thread can choose to research the subject themselves. When you come here casting doubt on the feasibility of CDMA for unfounded reasons, then yes I will speak up.

If you bothered to read back in this thread you'll see when I doubted official kitkat support from qualcomm for the Snapdragon S4 Play, which I did research on my own and posted my sources as to why I came to that conclusion. Would that be something I'd do if I worked for Neptune? Considering Neptune has yet to dispel kitkat support on the kickstarter page.

I joined 5 years ago because thats when I got one of my first smart phones, I haven't ever had any reasons to post since joining until now. Every time I got a new phone it was well after the phones introduction, so the questions I might have had, we're already asked and answered. This is the first time I've ever been ahead of a device's release, so I thought I'd contribute to ongoing discussions
[Other SmartWatches] vectron:
Nobody questioning feasibility of CDMA, its the implementation in conjunction with Verizon approval. I'm all for a healthy discussion and entertaining a wishful thinking. Also, I'm not suggesting that I know everything; I'm clear about expressing my opinion so people know not to take it as written in stone. I can only speak with certainty about products I had hands'on experience since I publish my detailed reviews on XDA (check my signature link). That's my credibility. My smartwatch experience is based on long term testing of MetaWatch (FRAME and STRATA) and limited testing of Omate TrueSmart, both of which were sent to me by the companies to get my opinion about it, just like everything else in that review list.

Just my opinion, but the only example of true mainstream smartwatch that appeals to masses is Pebble (MetaWatch is in the same category, on the shelves of Best Buy, but will software support that started way too late so they lost a momentum). Agent and HOT are in the same category, but have a more watch-friendly look; will see what's going on with these when they are released. I like TOQ, spoke to Qualcomm guys and on a waiting list of reviewers - that one I definitely looking forward to, if I get a chance to review it. Gear - talked to Samsung and they suggested about stopping review program, perhaps rumors of Gear 2 is true. Also talked to Sony PR and they are pulling SW2 review samples as well, in my opinion - they need to fix their manufacturing problems with display coming loose. Omate, Pine, and dozen of other clones - those are smart-wrist-phones, not smart watches. Just speaking from a limited experience of using Omate because I don't have GSM sim, it's a really neat device but for my own personal taste until it's working as a robust bluetooth tethered notification companion - extra Android stuff that comes with it is just a nice to have bonus, not the main practical feature. With Pine, as I already mentioned in this thread - if they want to have a future, redesign it and market as Android GoPro device. Without a doubt, Pine did good considering they secured a backing of 2800 supporters who paid upfront for it. I'm not taking away from their glory, but rather skeptical about CDMA version that works on Verizon network. Yes, they announced about plans (good PR move), but I have a feeling they will not lift a finger to execute that plan until they get green light from Verizon.

Just my 2 cents.

PS if you want a good reading about CDMA vs GSM: http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2407896,00.asp
[Other SmartWatches] RudeReality:
Really hope that someone attending CES gets some real info on the Verizon issue. I would really appreciate being better informed before I have to make my final decision once the end of Jan survey is sent.
[Other SmartWatches] vectron:
Is this a survey where you suppose to specify GSM or CDMA version? If so, does that mean that all 2800 backers of Pine are a mix of backers from both camps?
[Other SmartWatches] darkproximity:
Yeah the backers are mixed. GSM versions are projected to start shipping at the end of this month, CDMA are March timeframe. Also the tougher glass should also be ready by March
[Other SmartWatches] vectron:
OK, now I understand. Would have been great for someone from Nepture to chime in here on XDA. I'm pretty sure they are reading this thread...
[Other SmartWatches] darkproximity:
Yeah I'm surprised they haven't even started their own forums.. or even popped in here, they obviously have to know about xda lol
[Other SmartWatches] RudeReality:
Neptune stated that they would sent out a more detailed final survey before the Jan GSM models are shipped. The survey that was initially sent was lacking all the options and was less than complete. Thus the need for a second survey, with full details on the options and accessory item choices. Evidently the survey allowed by KS is rather restrictive. This is the second KS project that I had this same issue with the final survey sent through KS.
[Other SmartWatches] vectron:
First impression summary by Engadget [MENTION=422631]Ces[/MENTION]: http://www.engadget.com/2014/01/08/neptune-pine-wrist-worn-smartphone/ , although they did kind of slammed it in not so flattering way.
[Other SmartWatches] ronaldheld:
True Engadget did not paint it in a favorable light. The same for Gizmodo. Why do they not get it?
[Other SmartWatches] speedyink:
The Pine in a couple of the pics Engadget took looks kinda beat up..wonder why that one is on show
[Other SmartWatches] mghtymse007:
Engadget was at least somewhat positive and objective in their review.

Giz just slammed it...then slammed it again with the concluding sentence. Not to mention the trail of negative comments left in it's wake.
[Other SmartWatches] Srwilliams:
I am late to this smart watch game and so I know I speak from a position of ignorance.What is your opinion about the ZGPAX watch that is posted a lot on this forum. There is never mention or consideration to that piece. From all of my reading it appears to offer the same as the Neptune but in a smaller form factor, Yet it gets no consideration. In my lateness to the game is there something about the watch that eliminates it from serious consideration. I ask this in sincerity as I want to make the right choice. So, any insight would be greatly appreciated
[Other SmartWatches] theoppositeman:
I do agree with you.

Most of the reviews i read within this CES week are everything about the size. Its big, so what!

The same reviews they have said 2 years before any 6" phones came out to the world...6"? No way it will became fancy to the tech world! They say, and look at now, millions using above 5.5" and those giant tech companies keep making even larger..and the world fancied by it!

I have my own 6" phone without even bother about those reviews..when i look at tech, i look deep inside..size comes later.

So from now onwards future reviews will be because of its size not the functions and soecs overall...

Thats what i called....A LAME REVIEW...

T28#HOX
[Other SmartWatches] jutley:
The zgpax is a great watch and the best out there at the moment and yes its smaller form.
[Other SmartWatches] spinedoc:
Hmm, I haven't filled out the first survey yet as I was hoping they would provide more info on what "tougher" glass meant and if the March release would have any other improvements. So we should just wait for the 2nd survey? I also wanted to order a belt clip. I emailed their customer service a couple of times, but no response from them.
[Other SmartWatches] shaolin95:
Well, I like my ZGPAX a lot for sure. I do wish it had notification options as so far we have "promises" from the developer only.

Still with tablet talk you do get MMS and it has a lot of power for sure and at a good price (got mine for $150 from a USA seller shipped). :good:

Not sure why is not more popular. :confused:

I think there are too many watches at the same time so some are getting lost in the pile of products :D

The Pine is huge though so that surely makes it stand out.
[Other SmartWatches] BigBison420:
Im a big advocate of LARGER screen size... but even the Neptune Pine seems a bit too JIMMY NEUTRON. I mean to have something that large on the wrist is a bit silly ... It's TOO big. I don't need something rivaling my galaxy note 2 -
[Other SmartWatches] ronaldheld:
How large a screen is the Pine compared to the first cellular phone you owned?
[Other SmartWatches] Srwilliams:
Shoalin:

Thanks for taking the time to address my question.

I had been waiting anxiously for the Pine but I finally had to realize that at 5'7"/165 pounds that monstrosity will totally envelop my wrist, if not my arm. That is why I started looking at the ZGPAX, because it appears to offer the same concept but in a much more manageable form factor. But as you note one knock on the ZGPAX is that they have yet to make a companion software to pair the phone via bluetooth to make and receive calls as a companion o the phone. That one flaw has held me back from purchasing it.
[Other SmartWatches] shaolin95:
Yeah if it has come out with that companion app it would have been the perfect watch, at least for me but so far we only get text messages using another app so we shall see.

The Pine is interesting in that the size makes it more useful for actually watching say a video there if you wanted but since I use mine at the ice rink, I prefer the smaller size of the ZGPAX but the more choices out there , the better. :)
[Other SmartWatches] vectron:
I know we are getting off-topic with other smartwatches, but I was under impression if you don't need camera or sim card to make calls, SmartQ Z is a MUCH better alternative for under $100, which is slimmer, lighter, full android support, and already has the companion notification app working. Plus, they constantly updating their firmware. I'm actually thinking about getting it...
[Other SmartWatches] shaolin95:
If you do not need to run other apps from the market (I used the IP Cam app to check on my house from the watch while skating) and other normal apps which the ZGPAX runs, then yes that is an alternative. It was the one I almost bought before finding out about the ZGPAX :)
[Other SmartWatches] vectron:
Just curious, why can't you run market apps on SmartQ Z? Isn't it just a regular android OS smartwatch with GPlay where you can install any app you want to?
[Other SmartWatches] shaolin95:
At least from what I recall it was not but maybe I am wrong.

Like for example comments like this I read on reviews

"For Android apps to be supported on Z Watch they first have to be compatible with the MIPS architecture but also need to be repacked to support the much smaller resolution. So getting apps wont be as easy as going to Play store and hit download but we can be sure to see a new app category from Google soon."

Also the CPU is 1Ghz but not a power house from what I read but maybe things have changed.

In any case, we better take this to PM if you like. Since its the Neptune thread. :)
[Other SmartWatches] vectron:
Agree, Shaolin95 :)

And for Pine users - this is an example of what you DON'T have to worry about since you are getting display resolution to support any app ;)
[Other SmartWatches] Srwilliams:
And to add on to your comment Vectron where you bring it back to the Pine, the ability to make and receive calls from the Pine is most attractive,

I am sorry everyone from taking this dedicated thread into a discussion of other watch alternatives
[Other SmartWatches] theoppositeman:
Its normal when thread like this will eventually turn to another alternative topic, considering here in Pine thread, no one has any Pine yet on their hands.

So back to our Pine discussions. Hope from this forward lets make this thread a general Pine Only Thread discussing on everything about it.

Regarding the reviews by gizmag between Neptune and their CTO, there might be a Pine Apps store instead if they cant get through to get google playstore by then. Personally i think its a good alternative too considering there are many other app store surrounding android platform when some google store apps might not be compatible with some countries.

T28#HOX
[Other SmartWatches] mghtymse007:
Just to clarify...the SmartQ Z-watch does install most all of the apps directly DL'd from the Play Store. No mips repack or rewrite necessary. And...if you don't mind giving up the resources, gapps can be sideloaded and is completely functional.

As far as screen size...this is the biggest limitation depending on the app's layout. Ex. Twitter works great...UI is fully functional. But something as common and simple as the app "FTPCafe"...is useless due to it's layout.

I assume that any smartwatch that has a sub 2" screen (not pine, in other words), will run into these same incompatibilities.
[Other SmartWatches] ronaldheld:
When are the first Pines shipping? I am waiting to read the first reviews of them.
[Other SmartWatches] theoppositeman:
Theres no specific time given but they do said January shipment. My guess is that, since they havent send the second email (Backerkit as mentioned by Neptune) likely they will ship by mid or end of January, and depending on each countries the delivery might have differences in shipping and receiving time gaps. The March shipment are for the different glass type (tougher glass) so January shipment is for the standard glass (tempered glass). Any other shipment dates or time are just speculation or many reviews or comments.

By the time they are sending out the Backerkit emails then only we can be sure with the time frames of shipment. Most probably i am sure that the first batch of reviews will come from the Canadians and Americans because shipment is close by whereas international like Asian countries will likely get their Pines some 1 week or more later.

T28@HAM
[Other SmartWatches] ronaldheld:
Perhaps we will see some reviews by the end of this month.
[Other SmartWatches] mghtymse007:
the press is really having a field day on this one. this greeted me this moring from our local newspaper...

www.siliconbeat.com/2014/01/08/ces-a-not-so-smart-smartwatch/
[Other SmartWatches] BigBison420:
I own a zgpax, and the screen is plenty large.

Look i absolutely love big screen devices but i don't understand why the neptune pine is so incredibly large. Please someone make me a believer LOL i just want to know what someone is gonna do with that thing!
[Other SmartWatches] RudeReality:
I plan to use and wear the sh*t out of it, confident in the knowledge that I'm an early adopter of what will soon come to be accepted as the norm. Carrying a phone in your pocket is obsolete. It may look odd now, but the future always does...
[Other SmartWatches] spinedoc:
I actually plan on putting this on my belt via the belt clip they also announced. I couldn't see using it on my wrist, but on my belt as a standalone phone it might be kind of cool.

I do worry about customer service though. I've sent them several emails and not a single one was responded too. I hope they are not that kind of company.
[Other SmartWatches] vectron:
You know, on a belt people will mistake it for a beeper? :D Remember those? lol!!!
[Other SmartWatches] NachTSS:
I have a 414.go and I think the pine makes sense after using sutch a tiny screen typing stuff on the 414.go is hell XD
[Other SmartWatches] NachTSS:
I wouldnt put it on your belt last time I did that my phone got stolen wail it was on my belt some people are just that skilled o.o
[Other SmartWatches] NachTSS:
A pager? I had one of them but it only showed numbers not messages.
[Other SmartWatches] vectron:
Though on lady's hand:

You guys are right, it's better of on a belt than on a wrist. It's still cool as a small backup smartphone or when you biking or exercising, anywhere you don't want to drag your phablet. But for everyday use as a smartwatch on your wrist, hmm :(
[Other SmartWatches] NachTSS:
Is just the right size imo, I was wanting a mini computer that would fit on my wrist for years XD I totally have to save up for one.
[Other SmartWatches] amsguitarist:
You guys could save a lot of money by buying a wrist strap for your 4 inch smart phone. If you are already okay with something that big on your wrist, might as well go all the way.
[Other SmartWatches] spinedoc:
Hehe, yeah that's true.