yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Moto X General] ShamanicEnzan:
First, even Motorola is trying to figure out what happened, maybe I found that one "sweet spot" that causes total failure, which I still don't believe should exist in mobile devices, but hey, physics/engineering ain't that good yet I guess. And if what happened to your Moto X happened to mine I wouldn't even be complaining right now. You can preach "PHONES AREN'T SUPPOSED TO SURVIVE" all you want, but I will never agree to that. It should be able to survive real world usage, now will I put a case on it from now on? You can bet money on that.

Second, I know about subsidies, and as far as I can tell, the replacement is coming straight from Motorola, so are they out the total 600 dollars? Yes. They also took in about 600 dollars (I'm not sure if ATT completely covers the difference between the two price points) on a device that completely wrecked quickly, ATT loses nothing but a few hours of their support techs lives, which sounds harsh but they still had hours left on their shift from my conversation with them.

You call it luck, I call it I got unlucky and got a bad build. Whether that's an indicator of an issue with manufacturing or just that one in a million we may never know.
[Moto X General] Psilocin:
Against odds, you got your replacement for free even when pretty much everyone else in this thread agrees that you shouldn't have for your own screw up and be forced to pay up to learn from your mistake. It's like buying ice cream on a cone, then dropping it on the floor while walking to your car and going back to the store expecting them to give you a new one for free due to faulty cone design. It's probably unfair your insurance is charging $200 for the repair, but maybe you didn't read the fine print or the full terms of coverage, which again would be your own fault.

You were unlucky when you dropped it, but got lucky that Moto even escalated your case that far and managed to convince the engineer to agree with you. There's no saying whether you would have gotten the same response if it had been a different engineer. So I'd say call it a day and let this thread die.

Edit: Also, as per this thread and the att website, you will learn that buying insurance from ATT has a $199 deductible for any repair claim, whereas the insurance directly from Moto is only $39 deductible. So it only further supports my theory that you probably didn't understand the insurance terms before buying it from ATT.
[Moto X General] ShamanicEnzan:
I even admitted I was willing to pay some level, just not 200 dollars. I'm well aware of how mobile insurance, specifically in this case Asurion, works. They charge you some amount based on the value of the phone and simply swap it out, Moto wanted the same amount to look at it/fix it themselves. At one point they even offered to let me pay 100 dollars to have them repair it, at which point I did pull out my card and was all for it, but then they realized that was the price for a different phone and went right back to 200 dollars. I'll admit I got lucky when they came down to free.

As for letting this die, this sort of issue has become a matter of principal for me, I'm a huge advocate of consumer rights and I will not let the last word on this topic be a post shaming me for not taking proper care of my device when I did. I'm also willing to debate the issue into the ground.
[Moto X General] Psilocin:
Trust me. I've been through my fair share of time with various customer services, so there's no question that everyone here is in favor consumer rights. But it usually comes down to a matter of fault, which in this case it was only yours.

A couple years ago before I bought my first macbook, I bought a $1000 hp laptop that was overheating excessively to the point the aluminum chassis and keyboard would get really hot even during normal browsing. I thought it was just that my room was really warm due to the heater being on, but it turned out that it would overheat even in cooler rooms. I was already past the return date by that time and HP just would not agree that it was a design defect that was causing it to overheating even with numerous posts from others online experiencing the same thing. They just would not agree to a refund. All they did was replace all the components inside and send it back, which fixed nothing and still overheated. I eventually salvaged the situation by getting a cooling pad which made usage more manageable. This would be an example of a worthy consumer rights situation because this was clearly a product defect that wasn't allowing it to perform as intended.
[Moto X General] capathy21:
I think the thing that is bothering several of us is not the fact that it's a "disagreement" of consumer rights, it's the fact that you are abusing the system. Since the beginning of phone insurance, a cracked screen has required an insurance claim. It has always been cut and dry and it doesn't matter if that screen broke due to it being dropped 200 ft or 2 inches. With that insurance claim came a deductible. Sure deductibles have increased over time but so has the price of everything including the cost of manufacturing the devices. You can't just decide that you don't feel you should have to pay 200 dollars for a replacement. I don't want to pay 6 bucks for a gallon of milk at the store but guess what, it's out of my control just like the 200 dollar deductible is out of yours.

As mentioned above, electronic devices especially made of glass, are not "SUPPOSED" to withstand any drop/fall onto a hard or concrete surface period. It's not a matter of opinion it's a common sense fact. If your lcd tv is on a tv stand 3 feet off the ground and it gets bumped and hits the carpet chances are it will no longer work. Would that be from a defective unit? No it would be due to physical abuse. Again as I mentioned before, I don't mean to sound like an ass but Motorola GIVING you a new phone at no cost just because you *****ed and moaned are the kind of things that make the price of these devices go up.

Bottom line is you got very lucky to get a free replacement.
[Moto X General] ShamanicEnzan:
I think a phone should be able to survive a 3 foot fall. 6 - 12 foot fall? Not so much. Now if I was running around throwing my phone at walls and just saying "Meh Eff it FLY PHONE FLY" I'd be more likely to agree with everyone saying "Be more careful" but I took the most utmost care I could, it's not like I threw the phone at the Yellow Jacket. Devices should be sturdier than this, maybe I just got unlucky but the probability should be extremely low these issues occur.

Now was your situation far worse? Yes, and if that were me I'd still be on the phone with HP because that's some good old fashioned garbage.

Edit: Yes, I am lucky to get the free replacement. I won't deny that. And since the opinion mobile devices are just "supposed" to break when they fall is apparently commonplace here it's going to be a disagreement whenever this happens to the next person who buys a device and it breaks so soon afterwards. Had this been a year or so down the road, I'd probably be more willing to pay since the phone would have gone through more usage. I simply disagree with the "fact" that things break so easily. These things, which are sold to survive everyday life, should be able to live up to that every day claim. It's not like I did something like the S4 Active advertising and took it for a swim with a fish. I was just carrying it around. As for driving the price up...I don't think it will affect that, I'm unsure the cost the X is manufactured at, but I'm sure it's under what they are charging the consumer/ATT, so they're not losing a flat 600 dollars. Now if they start charging more for phones but also adding in a better warranty, would that really be such a bad thing? I'm not sure it wouldn't be, I'd happily add 50 bucks to the cost of my phone if it adds on 1 years of warranty in everyday use (Barring act of god clauses etc).
[Moto X General] thedosbox:
No, this is about realistic expectations. The Moto X is not advertised as a rugged device. If you wanted that attribute, you should have bought such a device.

Anyhow, happy to hear that Motorola have hooked you up, and I hope that you've learned your lesson.
[Moto X General] gunnyman:
And things keep getting more expensive.....
[Moto X General] theraffman:
All I have to say is that you are lucky! Don't think I've heard of anyone ever getting a replacement phone for less than their contracted deductible, for a cracked screen caused by a drop.

Phones can break when they are dropped, it's not a manufacturer defect, it's just the result of glass hitting the surface of something harder. All phones are prone to screen break (aside from the ones built for ruggedness) they don't always break, I've dropped my sgs3 4 times from Height of 2-5 feet, no case and the screen is still perfect, my wife on the other hand, dropped her sgs3 once at 2 feet and the screen cracked right down the middle... Maybe I should go scream at Samsung about her's being a manufacturer defect?

I've seen almost every phone get dropped, some enduring multiple drops and some breaking on the first impact. It's physics and how energy is distributed through the device upon impact that determines whether the screen breaks.

Hell, I think it was the iphone 5 that was breaking in people's pockets... Now that's a defect, but I don't think they even got replacement phones.

Ultimately, for 99.9% of people out there, they drop a phone and break the screen, regardless of how long they had it or how far they dropped it from, will accept the fact that THEY were at fault for not being able to hang on to their phone... When I broke the screen to my iphone 4, 1 month into owning it, I didn't post a thread and complain to Apple that they messed up, I sucked it up like a adult, accepted that I screwed up and went about my day.

Furthermore, I wouldn't accept an increase in price on MY phone, to subsidize the cost for people who aren't able to hang on to their phones or accept responsibility when THEY break them.

Either way, congratulations on wearing them down, you are very lucky, any other manufacturer would have sent you packing... If anything, this shows that Motorola do care about satisfying their customers... even when it's not their fault that the customer is dissatisfied.
[Moto X General] reitman1:
Why do you think it should have been able to survive a 3 foot fall? Has Motorola advertised this feature anywhere?
[Moto X General] dc82:
No offense, but what you THINK and what is reality honestly couldn't be further from the truth in this case. NO manufacturer claims to build a device that is supposed to "normally" withstand falls of ANY kind. That is NOT normal wear and tear. Normal wear and tear includes, but is not limited to placing in and out of pockets, placing down on tables face or back down, in cup holders, etc, etc. Even most military grade devices only offer water resistance, dust and solar resistance. I was in telecom for years and worked as an engineer. Your expectations are ridiculous as they are based on nothing more than your opinion and thought, which again, is not based on any factual, quantifiable data. Phones simply are phones, they are not designed with withstand damage OUR OF THE ORDINARY. Example. Watches. G Shock watches are CLEARLY advertised and marketed as ruggedized and capable of harsh falls and rough treatment. THAT is their niche. If I buy a Movado and drop it, should I call Movado and complain till they replace it? Honestly, you call anyone other that a phone company and they laugh at you and tell you if you can't afford to maintain said object then don't buy it. Cost, and how long you've had it does not justify or dictate how "rugged" a device should be no matter how much you try to convince yourself or justify it. The ONLY time a device is MEANT to withstand you dropping it is when it SAYS SO. Otherwise, it's your fault.

---------- Post added at 09:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:58 PM ----------

Thank you. No manufacturer markets "beat the hell out of our phones, they're made to withstand killer bees, drunken nights, armageddon or Lindsay Lohan".....

-common sense is in rare order-
[Moto X General] Epsilon707:
Sounds like the exact marketing for the S4 Active.
[Moto X General] dc82:
That's correct, you're right. So there is one phone that markets itself in such a way....and it's not the Moto X. The S4 was SPECIFICALLY designed and markets itself that way and that's why it stands apart from all the others. Nothing changes. The moto x is still not a rugged device.
[Moto X General] antawnm26:
Wow....I cant believe that yall are still giving this guy a hard time..lol....Just let it go
[Moto X General] ShamanicEnzan:
I actually went and looked this up, the S4 active is only officially classified to handle water and dust. So falls are still out of the question (even the ads don't show falls, just adorable children watching fish movies in the fish bowl), not entirely sure on the Rugby but it appears to be behind the flagships in terms of power and functionality, and I don't believe that sort of tradeoff should be tolerated.

We're stuck in our ways, although I do really think we're going around in circles, I have expectations higher than them for my devices and I'm not afraid to say it. If others disagree, well it's my life, if it infuriates them, I don't know what else I can say haha.
[Moto X General] theraffman:
Lol, just had to get my 2 sense in before the thread gets locked.

For me and many others, I would assume, this is the first I've seen where someone blames the phone for breaking when they drop it on cement... carpet, grass or even a bouncy house would be understandable... But how can you be surprised when you drop an uncased phone with a 4.7 inch GLASS screen on cement? Too many of us, I guess, it's just funny (not funny that he broke his screen, that sucks, but the surprise and lack of self responsibility) . I've broken a screen or two in my day and have known plenty others who have... I don't think manufacturer defect even crossed any of our minds... The only thing that crossed mine was "I'm an idiot!"
[Moto X General] poontab:
I've been dropped from insurance twice since 2009 for gravity related defects. Apparently I'm the stupid one.
[Moto X General] :
I broke the screen on my S3 less than two weeks after I bought it. It fell less than a foot and shattered the screen. I cursed at myself and bought a new screen. End of story.
[Moto X General] ShamanicEnzan:
Especially in the case of the guy who dropped his phone less than a foot...this is honestly all okay with you guys? If it is, well enjoy it. Enjoy having a great phone that you can't drop once because you're screwed if it's broken.I don't think it's right, but if you have the wallet and the tolerance, go right ahead
[Moto X General] freak4dell:
Exactly. This kind of abuse only drives up costs for those who actually act like responsible adults.
[Moto X General] RayTrue04:
This seems to be the new it for phones. Everybody sitting on them, wearing skinny jeans cracking them in pockets and dropping them and crying it's all the manufacturers fault. I see this same thread on Samsung, HTC, LG and so on forums. Guess what my Note 2 fell from my hands when my niece decided to push me by the arm playing around and although it was not much of a drop when I picked it up my screen was shattered. Did I cry to Sprint or Samsung saying it's their fault? Nope, I went online bought the glass from China for dirt cheap, watched a few YouTube how to's and did the repair myself. First time ever I tried a repair but I wasn't willing to pay Samsung $180 or Sprint $250.

All in all I paid $40 for my own repair at home.. Only draw back a lot of those how to vids attached the glass without bonding the glass to the digitizer and so did I which gave me an annoying bubble in the middle when I pressed a bit hard on the middle. After finding that out though I bought the loca adhesive and detached the glass did it the right way and now I'm all set. Oh and I had a case on on top of that. Falls vary, I guess it all depends on mother nature and how much gravity she's in the mood for at the moment. If your phone powers on just try your own repair and save money..
[Moto X General] Psilocin:
Again, you don't seem to understand that no two falls are created equal.

One important factor is the type of surface (concrete vs tile floor vs carpet). You can drop a dinner plate on at 3 feet on carpet and it is a common expectation that it shouldn't break. I've done it several times and the plate was fine. But if you drop a the plate on concrete even at 1 or 2 feet, you shouldn't be surprised if it breaks, but it also might stay intact.

Second important factor is the angle of impact. Did it hit the back flat, front flat, side flat, or a corner. Corner is the most vulnerable. Why? Because physics. The force of the impact is concentrated over a smaller amount of area of the glass and glass cannot compress when under stress, so it cracks to relieve the pressure. If you go back to the pic that you posted, you can see that it seems have hit near the bottom left corner since all the cracks radiate outward from there. If it had landed flat against the entire side, front, or back, it might have survived, it might not.

Third factor, glass breaks since the day it was invented. Even Gorilla Glass is not invincible despite common perception. It might be scratch proof and shatter proof, but it is not crack proof.

I, like most others, simply don't drop my devices. After spending hundreds of dollars, I take care of my stuff and use it carefully in a way that avoids potential situations that leads to drops. Does that mean I stop using my phone normally? No, it just means that I would spend $20 to buy a decent tpu case for it. It means that if I was walking on a concrete sidewalk while using my phone, I would make sure I have a pretty good grip of it.
[Moto X General] graffixnyc:
OP you are totally wrong.. Sorry but you are... It doesn't matter how far it fell.. 3 feet, 12 inches.. it all depends on HOW it falls and the point of impact. I dropped my X from about 4 feet onto concrete(no case or screen protector) and NOTHING happened. It had one scuff that I wiped off and the back popped of a little but was able to clip it back right in place like it never happened. That could have gone really badly if it landed and hit the concrete and impacted in a different spot. You can't blame them for your butter fingers, dropping the phone and the phone landing in a way that cracked it. These are electronic devices, not tanks... If anything you have physics and yourself to blame. Not motorola.. You're just pissed that you broke your phone with it being so new.. Hell I'd be pissed too.. But you're wrong...
[Moto X General] jonathanphx1:
We all know the OP has an entitlment issue,we have all called him out on it yet he still spews out his crap about "consumer rights" and that he cannot be held responsible for his actions. That's fine, if Motorola is stupid enough to give him another phone so be it .

The Mods need to lock this thread...actually they just need to delete it because it is worthless.

I take that back the thread is not completely worthless ... A bunch of us got our "thanks" buttons hit.
[Moto X General] ShamanicEnzan:
I'm not going to fight you on cement. I'm an idiot at times but not that stupid.

I can't tell you what hit the ground first to make the most impact, as my back was turned since I was getting the hell away from that Yellow Jackets (Real Bugs scare the ever living hell out of me), but I agree that's the most plausible occurrence, as for the glass, I understand it's not invincible, but one fall? Really? With some pretty rough case damage as well? Something's wrong there in my mind at least.

As for "simply don't drop my devices", I really didn't want to drop it and I don't feel that a case on top of a phone should be considered necessary to use your phone outside. I guess that has to change, although that is sad that the Motomaker feature is pretty much null unless you get a clear case, but I haven't come across a case that is clear and provides any true protection to me. I'll find something though.

Yea at this point I'm tired of going over the same points over and over, I don't think we should accept devices that can break so easily. If that makes me have "entitlement issues" well, I'm not going to change your mind and you're not changing mine.

If a mod could take care of locking this bad boy down it would be much appreciated, and for all of those I got involved with point/counterpoint with, it was a very interesting and intriguing debate.
[Moto X General] :
I've been thoroughly entertained by this thread. The OP has weathered the ****storm rather well. He actually reminds me of the nut jobs that call in to, or are hosted on Coast 2 Coast am radio. Not that he is a complete whacko but because he is 100% sure he is right despite the rest of the world saying he is wrong. He thoroughly believes he was entitled to a new phone despite the fact that he was 100% reasonable for breaking it. That is impressive.
[Moto X General] ShamanicEnzan:
If you ever met me in real life, you may change your mind on the whacko part. I stick to my guns. I laid out all my points and went against every point I could while remaining as respectful as possible. None of you guys caused the events to occur, so I wasn't going to get mad at anyone, but there comes a point where discussion hits circles and we're way beyond that point now.
[Moto X General] Toledo_JAB:
My thanks go out to most of you.

I am very pleased how the discussion has run its course.

Just enough emotion to make your points heard, but not so loud that all of XDA heard you.

I will close this thread now but if the OP wants to tell if anything happens with the claim, just PM me and I will open it for edits.

Thread closed
[Android Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] verntechguy:
Can anyone share a copy of a stock mms.apk for dual sim phones on 4.1.2? The phone should be at least on qHD resolution. Thanks in advance!
[Nexus 7 (2013) Accessories] MMakoto:
The below was copied over from the case n cover thread, but I feel that this case could use its own thread.

For anyone that's interested. I've just received the devicewear ridge case. The back is hard plastic, and its soft leather is glued onto it from the back. It should be very similar to the original N7 in terms of design and material. I have not fitted my N7 onto the case yet, but I already have my doubts. Here's my opinion:

1st, the plastic back came scratched out of the box. There's also about one inch on the plastic that looks like it's been rubbed by sand paper.

2nd, the glue where it connects from the plastic back and cover is already coming off.

3rd, there is that strong chemical smell to it, makes me a bit nauseous. Reminds me of the first gen yoobao leather case I got for my ipad2.

4th and perhaps last, the thin plastic by the power and volume rocker, it feels very flimsy. A little pressure on it might snap it.

The above is from my personal opinion only, maybe others have received a better copy. I have emailed devicewear already, so let's see what their response is. Attached a couple of pics for your reference only.

Update:

I've finally fitted the case to the N7, and it fits like a glove, cutouts are very precise and the smell is almost gone. The inside material is very soft, but catches a lot of lint and dust. Also, the glue is not sticking very well as mentioned above, but devicewear is sending me a replacement, so hopefully it was just a bad copy I received.

Overall it's still a very nice case, a bit pricey for my taste though, $32 shipped. I would still recommend it if you like a quality and slim case, and great customer service as well.
[Nexus 7 (2013) Accessories] sensboston:
and finally

Hmm... Did I missed something?! ;)

P.S. This case looks like a highly overpriced crap to me...
[Nexus 7 (2013) Accessories] MMakoto:
I did mention that the smell was almost gone and they are sending me a replacement, and I do believe that I just got a bad copy. Look at all the positive reviews from amazon for the og n7, it was those reviews that made me choose case. I shall update again when I get the replacement.