yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Galaxy S 4 General] lefti696:
[MENTION=1335231]spamtrash[/MENTION] you started to convince me.

But we cannot generalize, unfortunately i live in Poland not in Germany or France. And here Samsung does such a thing as you said ( unlocking phone is illegal before end of contract or debranding). And there are a lot of people witch voided warranty because of knox and they cannot do anything about it. Of course there are also small group of people that get phone fixed. We have whole forum for that and im not going to copy translate and paste things. Sure we have organization that protects customers law, but standing in lines and waiting months for case to solve is not everybody wants. Some prefer to let it go if they are not 1000% sure they are right. So it is not right to say, hey all of you, do root, nothing happens.

I can also say that man responsible for Samsung's PR in Poland posted on twitter that voiding knox wont void your warranty. But it is not treated like official statement. androidnow.pl/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/Rzecznik-Samsung-o-Knox.jpg

btw, good to know ! :)
[Galaxy S 4 General] Vaira:
Referring to the blue sentence. You are right with this and also to say there is no chance to get it repaired. Maybe the first impression of my posts is that I say root it, you will have never issues, I am of course no fortune teller. :)

I say that there are laws which are on your side and examples where people got it repaired.

When wanting to be on the 'safe' side, one just has to consider....

-One can ask the seller before buying the device and if needed to choose another seller.

-One can think about what is the probability that it'll happen.

-One can refer to the EU directive, one can refer to known examples where people got it repaired anyway.

-Trouble with warranty can occur other ways, how behaves my 'trusted' seller / manufacturer, usually? At any case you, the consumer wants something from another one and if the one denies, you have to make efforts. That is always the nature of the situation, rooted or not.

-Triggering knox 0x1 is an irreversible process (at least now on Snapdragons) and the process itself does not damage things which later are subject of warranty. Also the root process itself does not damage things.

-You can stay unrooted

-You can buy another brand.

I am in the situation right now, I have just got the SM-P605, hence I got attracted from this discussion. I have decided to root it, just waiting for mikes new ARHD ROM. I know what I'll do when something gets broken during period of warranty.

I do not know if I get it repaired then 100% but I am very convinced.
[Galaxy S 4 General] Spere:
Change the title please:

[BULLS***] Samsung Knox warranty versus device warranty.

This haven't got anything to do with research for a long time... Just BS about Knox warranty flag.

Nothing to see here
[Galaxy S 4 General] arkonpl:
@UP

I agree. If someone who doesn't have anything to say in RESEARCH of KNOX shouldn't be posting here. If someone find something, he is welcome to post. RESEARCH on other websites, your phones and many other.

To the topic: I found that when I rooted my phone (i9505) Knox Varranty Void changed to 1. At this time Knox was updating 4-5 times in a week (strange). But! After installing new downloaded software (4.4.2 Kitkat) my root was gone (but Knox was still 1) I saw that Knox Application didn't update even 1 time! Maybe that's helpful for someone. I took my phone where I bought it and told them that after upgrade via Odin to KitKat Knox changed. They gave me it back after few days (it was sent to the other city) and my Knox was 0 BUT my software was back to old! They told me to update via downloading in Settings -> More -> Information about device -> Update. After that Knox is still 0. From that we can think that Odin can change something with Knox, but it's not proved (someone ealier said that after updating via Odin Knox was still 0).

Any thoughts?
[Galaxy S 4 General] Indha Lezzio:
I love bull****

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[Galaxy S 4 General] mrbenbiz:
After you received your phone back, have you checked if you have the same IMEI from purchasing? or do you have another IMEI (means they have replaced your motherboard or entire phone)?

If you have the same IMEI, this means that they have reverted your phone to the firmware+modem+bootloader to initial stage you bought. This means somehow KNOX may be reverted to 0x0 with the right tools.
[Galaxy S 4 General] arkonpl:
Yep, I have the same IMEI. Although I didn't check my bootloader before giving my phone to them, so now I can't tell you if it is different.

I remember when somebody wrote that samsung have their own application to remove Knox. That means Knox CAN be removed by changing few bits. We need to find them.
[Galaxy S 4 General] Vaira:
Congrats to your informative posts……:good:

Contrary to your both posts the others are related to Knox, warranty IS the reason why people talk about Knox at all.:confused:

To complain about seemingly Off Topic posts by posting OT...no comments.

And I have posted #2261 about an article that explains very well boot process and early boot stages and their verification.

I don't think you will be able to understand Knox without knowing how the device is booting.

There is a difference on exynos I9500 and Snapdragons I9505, Exynos seemingly stores the bit on EMMC at the RPMB area, also the downgrade bit whereas Snapdragons have stored it in the QFUSE area in MCU .

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?p=52329946

http://forum.gsmhosting.com/vbb/f672/regarding-knox-s4-1775213/

AFAIK Knox will be triggered if there are significant changes at either recovery kernel or OS kernel. Also the definition of 'significant' changes during development stages of KNOX. CF root triggers it because the method temporarily uses a modified recovery. Root de la Vega worked / can still work to root without to trigger because the modified original firmware has removed kernel and recovery and bootloader from it and the current bootloader just verifies the 'old' signatures, this 'hole' has been patched already...

I strongly assume Samsung can reset the flag with engineer tools. But they also can write / copy the EFS partition in order to copy the IMEI to another mainboard..
[Galaxy S 4 General] Indha Lezzio:
I'm sorry Vaira, u did not catch me: I just wanted to mean that I like reading all kind of information that anybody wants to share with people with a good purpose. Like your posts.

Cheers

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[Galaxy S 4 General] spamtrash:
sorry, but again you misunderstood me. I'm not telling or thinking something. I am asking you to point me to the part of warranty where Samsung distinguish between authorized or non authorized system software modification.

Furthrmore, from embedded in ROM bloatware, just to name a few, we have some not related and not depending from Samsung software: TripAdvisor, Skype, Yahoo News, Dropbox, Face(z)book, Google Services, Google text to speech etc.

ANY of the above applications is modified in completely independent from Samsung way and embedded in the system while update is processed.

But, again, I am just asking you to help me to find where Samsung makes difference between embedded by them in system software and any other software which can be installed as system apk? Please excuse my old eyes but I cannot find anything like that.

finally: I know that the world is not perfect, and people in some countries have more ... rights? freedom? than others, but that doesn't means that they are enforced to follow more restrictive rules, if such is illegal in their country.

---------- Post added at 05:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:00 PM ----------

To convince you more, look for the term: rękojmia ;)
[Galaxy S 4 General] sauron82:
Other software can't be installed as system apps. If you're not rooted, then nothing you installed is installed as a system app; everything is installed as a user app. To add an app to the system you need root access, which devices don't have out of the box. Any changes to the system happen OTA.

Click thanks if I helped you
[Galaxy S 4 General] spamtrash:
1. AFAIK, even Samsung's own allshare was recently updated not over the OTA, but via Play. Try to uninstall it without root:rolleyes:

2. Please point me to the place, where the SGS4 warranty states about the user and system software difference. to be more specific, I was not as lazy as you, and I digged for warranty. It states: p.5... The warranty does not cover the following: .... - upgrading of software due to change in network parameters PERIOD. no other single word about software in th warranty card. What's more important for me, p. 6 states: "This warranty does not affect the consumers statutory rights nor the consumers rights against the dealer from their purchase sales agreement" PERIOD Nothing more is included in the warranty card regarding the software.

However, looking on web, I noticed that there are some differences between the warranty terms, for example mine states that my warranty period is limited to 24 months, but is NOT stating that only for original purchaser (otherwise, and this is aligned with EU laws, I have full right to sell it let's say after 12mths of use and remaining 12mths will cover secondary user). This is as you may see a bit more consumer oriented approach than used in more oppressive countries terms and conditions.

Basically, the discussion starts to be boring...

And I am really sorry but I have to stay on my position that I fully agree with that what Simon says
[Galaxy S 4 General] sauron82:
I'll say it again: Not everyone lives in the EU. If you do, that's done, but for people outside the EU, all the legal stuff that you're quoting doesn't mean anything.

Obviously common sense isn't working with you. If you think installing apps from the store is the same as rooting and installing a custom rom, and that both are unauthorized modifications according to Samsung, then you're beyond help. I'm done. I'm starting to realize why you picked that username.

Click thanks if I helped you
[Galaxy S 4 General] coolkoushik07:
Check with samsung info app and tell if it is showing as refurbished or not.. IMEI doesnot change after MB replacement..

Sent from my Xperia Z1 Compact (D5503)
[Galaxy S 4 General] lefti696:
I have done even harder work, i digged threw paper :cool: warranty card that came with my samsung device, and i see here more words about software. Also from point 5. There is also english version so exactly quoted:

"Failure of the product due to the use of third party software programs to alter,change,adapt or amend the existing, approved Samsung software which operates on product"

"The functionality or operation of third party media services and/or contant available or accessible via the product"

So it is not exactly as you say above.

Thank you, "rękojmia" is outdated term, it is now replaced by something like this "unmaching of the goods with the contract"

From my experience:

Sasmung service centres got blank mother boards and they set new imei.

Htc gets new mb with new imei and new stickers with it.
[Galaxy S 4 General] jaswinky:
Warranty terms are different from each country due its consumer protection laws. In Europe (UE), where he refers, those words will never be written in a warranty card because all those terms are illegal in all European countries.

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[Galaxy S 4 General] Vaira:
Oh, I am so sorry, I have got you now, please accept my apologies :o. Finally we're all a bit concerned about KNOX and people want to share what they think about. Thank you, and sorry for my misunderstanding, I was completely wrong with the meaning of your statement...:highfive: :good:.
[Galaxy S 4 General] lefti696:
Hmm thats strange, because im in Europe (EU) and my Samsung smartphone comes from official European - Polish distribution (it is XEO) from Samsung retail store.
[Galaxy S 4 General] cheffy11:
In the EU consumers have statutory rights which protect you regardless. Basically anything you buy should have an average lifespan from point of purchase.

For example I bought a used ps3 from a branch of cash converters (a used goods national chain) and the guy behind the counter said with my proof of purchase if anything goes wrong within a reasonable amount of time ie <5 years and it is a fault with the product and not caused by me, if they cannot repair it they will replace it.

https://www.gov.uk/consumer-protection-rights
[Galaxy S 4 General] anoniemouse:
This is very true providing it is a hardware fault that causes the problem, but if you brick your device with a rom flash then you are knackered.
[Galaxy S 4 General] jaswinky:
I mean, same terms in all European Union, different to out-Europe countries... I don't think it is so strange...

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[Galaxy S 4 General] Spere:
Go Settings - Application manager - All - Allshare cast dongle SW/Update and choose "Uninstall updates" --> done

Was it really that hard?

Edit: To make it clear, this does not remove that system app, but the update that was not installed "over the OTA, but via Play"
[Galaxy S 4 General] spamtrash:
Was it really that hard to understand the point? INSTALLATION of update via GP is changing the preinstalled application (part of system). But, please point me to place, where I asked how to uninstall it?:rolleyes:

---------- Post added at 02:35 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:32 PM ----------

Last time, because I see that you have problems in reading with understanding:

can you use CITATION from YOUR version of warranty, where is placed something what would distinguish between the system application modification via the Google Play and system application modification using third party source? If not - updating the Google Maps via the Goolge Play shall violate the warranty. PERIOD.

As simple as it can be: use the citation instead of your assumptions.
[Galaxy S 4 General] spamtrash:
So, I must be very happy with that:D It seems that my warranty is unique, individual, and Samsung made me a favor giving the free hand
[Galaxy S 4 General] Spere:
I quoted that part. In fact, you didn't ask how to remove it (the update you were talking about), you told to "try to uninstall it without root"... I tried and I uninstalled. Done
[Galaxy S 4 General] spamtrash:
OK, so you do not have the AllShare in the system anymore? And, you have done it without the root? Congratulations. you have discovered the security hole allowing to uninstall system application as standard user. Claim your prize to Samsung.
[Galaxy S 4 General] Spere:
Wrong again. Read what you wrote, read what I wrote, and try to understand that text.
[Galaxy S 4 General] spamtrash:
I have stated that as the warranty is not distinguishing between the system apps modification via update from sources independent from Samsung, with each update the warranty may be interpreted as void.

You have stated that you do not need the root to uninstall it (what, IMHO, is impossible).

How it is relevant to my post? What's the connection?

Sorry, but although I missed the connection mentioned in the question above, I tried to reply you.
[Galaxy S 4 General] jaswinky:
"Acts of God or any cause beyong ..."

?? What are you from, man???

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[Galaxy S 4 General] spamtrash:
You have it partially on one of the screens, that the warranty was issued for United kingdom and Ireland... I personally think that this is related with the Irish roman catholic approach:D
[Galaxy S 4 General] sauron82:
I never said anything like that. What you're talking about here is meaningless because installing apps or updates has nothing to do with warranty.

Click thanks if I helped you
[Galaxy S 4 General] joecool666:
hi peeps i live in ireland, just a heads up on warranty here.i called samsung center when i had a s4 with knox 0x1 i asked them if this would void my warranty they said no it wouldent as long as its hardware issue hope this helps, regards
[Galaxy S 4 General] jaswinky:
Same written question from a guy in Spain to Samsung Spain, Answer: yes, it will void the warranty, but they answered by phone instead by writing. Same guy to a Samsung Center technician: no, it won't void the warranty because same reason as you received.... Try they give you the same answer by writing and post here, if you get it, you will help a lot of people in Europe...

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[Galaxy S 4 General] BrunoWestone:
WTF !!!!!!

Hello Guys !!

Interesting thing about Knox and this Anti-rollback bootloaders.

Either Samsung are a bunch of liars co$# suckers, laughing pretty loud about all of us trying to find solution for this and they know that it is indeed impossible to achieve or, (my favourite) we are really close to crack this KNOX and they panic because they are on the verge to see his 5M USD firmware been cracked up...

THIS IS MY TRUE STORY !!

Yesterday, I was rooting an S3 4.3 using CFAutoroot and I was really sleepy and didn't notice that the phone was indeed a I9305 LTE WITH KNOX BOOTLOADER....

The amazing thing is, the CF Autoroot (for I9300) was successfully flashed on the S3 LTE (I9305) and the most amazing thing:

KNOX BOOTLOADER IS GONE !!! NO COUNTER, NO WARRANTY BIT, NOTHING !!!

Obviously, the phone wont boot up again and I had to flash the I9305 bootlaoder to get it working again, and obviously the knox get trigged but the question remains:

HOW THE F!"££ IS THIS POSSIBLE ????????
[Galaxy S 4 General] lyriquidperfection:
Must be something to so with the param.bin or param partition as this is included with the I9300. I rememver because I had a spate of people accidentally flash this to their I9305 which caused loss of baseband and zero imei. It took me a while to figure out and in the end it just simply needed the param.bin from an I9305 flashing back to fix.

As you say knox status had disappeared from bootloader after flashing the wrong root package. Maybe you could try downgrading the bootloader then restoring the original param.bin.
[Galaxy S 4 General] BrunoWestone:
Good Idea. I will test today and post results

Thanks Mate
[Galaxy S 4 General] chudy_85:
Nice but remember thay can put knox to any way i say at difrent device and software

Wyklepane z mojego S4Lte Rooted Kitkat :)
[Galaxy S 4 General] TheSKYY:
Hi I installed an old Omega rom on my GS4 9505 back in 2013 with 4.2.2, so since then my rom wasn't updated automatically. So am I fine because KNOX wasn't installed on my device yet because it came with 4.3? If I now update to 4.4.2 with a custom rom will this still void my guarantee because KNOX is still part also from custom roms?

Thanks for the help!
[Galaxy S 4 General] anishrestha:
Great Info. Thanx
[Galaxy S 4 General] FlanjeUK:
If you want to keep knox 0x0 just install a knox free custom ROM (any version you want 4.2.2-4.4.2) and you will be fine.

All AOSP Roms should be knox free and most heavily modified TW Roms should be knox free, just make sure anything you flash doesnt contain an updated bootloader containing knox :)
[Galaxy S 4 General] kitjay:
Anovo UK warranty Knox void

[/I]I just tried to use it for Samsung for the warranty and my Knox was 0x1. It was for a failed sim card reader that hasn't ever worked since I got the phone, purchased April 16 this year. This is what I just got and it should only be a parts repair on the phone that's been broke since its been manufactured.

We’re contacting you from the Samsung repair centre David.

Thank you for sending your Samsung SM-N9005 to us for repair. We have received it successfully, and our engineers have carried out a thorough examination.

We have located damage on your device, and this damage is not covered under the manufacturer’s warranty. Our engineers are therefore unable to further assess any faults you were experiencing.

This damage is considered too severe for us to proceed, and classes your product as Beyond Economical Repair. (BER)

We are sorry for any inconvenience this causes you David.
[Galaxy S 4 General] Emieltes:
No waranty void in the Netherlands

I just returned my I9505 which was rooted and running an custom kernel to a official Samsung service point. I told them about the root and the kernel, and they said it didn't matter and fixed my phone. So there is no waranty void in the netherlands with kies 0x1:good:
[Galaxy S 4 General] johan81:
What was wrong with your phone? I live in Alkmaar as well and am contemplating buying the S5, but rooting is a must for me, so would love to know more about this ;)
[Galaxy S 4 General] saikm:
good！
[Galaxy S 4 General] kitjay:
sigh

I wish they could do the fix for me there. I just want this to be my phone and work as a phone
[Galaxy S 4 General] Emieltes:
My phone had a short circuit in the usb port, probably because it was wet when the charger was connected. And the headphone jack had to be replaced because the headphones disconnected when put my phone on a table or in my pocket (because of friction). Both the USB port and the headphone jack were replaced free of charge.

All they asked me was if the kernel could have caused the problems by overcharging the CPU, I said this could not be the case because I only used the kernel for batery saving (undervolt/clocking).
[Galaxy S 4 General] BrunoWestone:
Help me up here FlanjeUK, lets say I have a S4 4.4.2 with knox 0x0 and that if we install a costum rom with knox free, for example a 4.2.2 UnKnoxed rom my counter will be 0x0 ???
[Galaxy S 4 General] jorgemiguel4:
No, it will change to 0x1.
[Galaxy S 4 General] FlanjeUK:
This is correct, thank you :)

You must start on a pre-knox bootloader to be able to stay on it... knox is in 4.3+ and will be tripped as soon as you try to flash anything custom (with or without knox included)
[Galaxy S 4 General] rboy28:
eFuse?

One question: Have I expect a eFuse-break while flashing? I got my device with 4.2.2. I checked the IMEI on http://www.imei.info/ . The device has 4.2 by default and the production year is 2013.

So Knox wasn't installed by default but with software when updating to 4.4.2. In the end, is it hardware and flag or only the flag (0x1)?
[Galaxy S 4 General] clonednull:
soo confusing :)

to clear it up:

you have to be running a knox enabled bootloader, wich means any bootloader contained in a samsung 4.3+ rom, to get knox flag set to 0x1 from 0x0.

it is the bootloader wich is the important part!

to check if you have a knox enabled bootloader go into dowload mode and check for any apearence of "knox". if the line is not present, you DONT have a knox enabled bootloader and are on the save side.

now just flash a custom 4.4.2 rom without knox, eg: SHOstock-i v5.0

custom roms usally dont contain bootloaders (but better allways read the rom infos :good: )

you will have to update the modem by odin to have a steady working phone signal but this does not touch the knox flag.

so you can play arround with kernel, recovery, rom, modem, ...

just DONT touch the bootloader :fingers-crossed:
[Galaxy S 4 General] Chalao:
You will definitely trigger Knox 0x1 if you load a custom kernel, recovery or ROM due to failed signature verification of the Knox-enabled bootloader, so the only thing you can really play around with is the modem. However, if you run with a Knox-free bootloader (usually all 4.2.2 ones below XXUB or VJUB etc.) you are free to flash whatever you want apart from stock ROMs containing Knox-bootloaders (usually all 4.3 ones above XXUD).
[Galaxy S 4 General] lyriquidperfection:
He meant you can do all that with old bootloader. :)
[Galaxy S 4 General] Chalao:
I updated my post regarding this matter but it seems you were too quick :)

Anyways, as he referred in his reply to rboy28's post I understood that rboy28 already did update to 4.4.2:

Thus, I edited my post just to leave no doubt for him. ;)
[Galaxy S 4 General] rboy28:
No, I don't mean that. I've already updated to 4.4.2 with the new bootloader.

As known from the Note 3 there is a eFuse on the mainboard which will be destroyed by flashing.

My question is whether my s4 has that eFuse security too.

:)

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