yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Windows 8 General] e.mote:
Here's an interesting tidbit on 8.1u1's "smaller footprint." It involves WIMBoot, which as the name allows booting from a WIM file (compressed archive). I've left out the ADK's torrent link to sanitize it for XDA. Aside from the obvious space savings (how much?) for storage-constrained tablets, I think WinPE builders would benefit from this, as do those who build custom images for WTG.

=============

MICROSOFT.WINDOWS.8.1.AND.SERVER.2012.R2.SPRING.2014.UPDATE.ADK.KIT.EEAP.ENGLISH-WZT

RELEASE DATE: 02/19/2014

FILES: ADK_140219-1702.zip

SIZE: 3,182,812,377 byte

SHA-1: EDF880A13DBB3FA4BB9CBDB13B2CF395D3172E15

MD5: 9927B91EBFFDA43025D1064ECF19F091

NOTE: this is original M$ files.

EEAP - Ecosystem Engineering Access Program

What’s New in Windows 8.1 Update?

Windows image file boot (WIMBoot)

New for Windows 8.1 Update, devices can be configured to boot and run Windows directly from a .wim file.

This provides several benefits:

• Windows can run on smaller solid state drives

• Increases available disk space for end users

• Reduces OEM manufacturing time

To support WIMBoot, you will need updated versions of Windows PE and DISM. In addition, you will need to change some of your existing Windows customizations, recovery configurations and manufacturing workflows. This includes:

• Windows PE is updated to support WIMBoot. You will need to recreate your Windows PE images to support WIMBoot.

• DISM includes new command line parameter, such as /WIMBoot. When capturing and applying images, you must use this new parameter.

• You can use your WIM Boot image as a recovery image, saving disk space. You will have to update your recovery configuration and disk partition layout on the devices you build.

WIMBoot is only supported on Windows 8.1 Update images with the Windows 8.1 Update version of the Windows ADK.

For more information about WIMBoot, see the following topics in ADK_Online.chm file. Note that DISM PowerShell cmdlets are documented in DISM_Cmdlets.doc included in this documentation package.

Create and deploy WIMBoot images:

• WIMBoot: Windows image file boot (WIMBoot)

• Create WIMBoot Images

• Deploy WIMBoot Images

DISM Command line options:

• What's New in DISM

• DISM Image Management Command-Line Options

• DISM Windows Edition-Servicing Command-Line Options

Installing Windows 8.1 Update

In this EEAP release, Windows 8.1 Update is available as an MSU file. You can update your existing Windows 8.1 images by applying the update.

by WZT

03|05|14

=============

Edit: Also, more dope on the "Windows with Bing" SKU. This likely is the new lower-cost version for OEMs. The only apparent change is that Bing is set as the default search engine for IE, although users can change the default if they wish. It's just the OEM that can't change it.

http://bav0.com/windows-8-1-adk-leaks-some-interesting-stuff-inside-bing-edition-more/

Edit 2: Hmm looks like the WIMBoot thing is restricted to tablets only. UEFI and SSD (or EMMC) are required. Looks like I can ignore this update then.
[Windows 8 General] GoodDayToDie:
UEFI and SSD are pretty common even in desktops, never mind laptops, these days. My mobo doesn't support it (because I went cheap, and the one I received from Newegg was two hardware revisions older than what was advertised besides...) but a newer one would have, and I do boot off SSD (with a 3TB traditional drive for larger games and bulk data).

WIMBoot will probably take longer than normal bootup, especially if the WIM is preserved as the boot image (meaning that all updates, etc. will need to be merged applied after the image is decompressed, each time). On the other hand, actual rebooting is (and has been for years) something people should rarely do. With sleep being instant and hibernate supported by all hardware for years now, an actual full reboot should only be required for hardware/firmware reconfiguration or for modification to core OS components (kernel updates, etc.). MS may have to do some trickery to make it *look* like boot times are still fast, though (which is nothing new, really) to appease the "9 seconds from pushing Power to the desktop is OK, but it should be faster!" crowd (yes, these people exist. <REDACTED> it, my *phone* takes longer than that!)
[Windows 8 General] SixSixSevenSeven:
Go fetch a drink while you wait, problem solved.
[Windows 8 General] GoodDayToDie:
*I* am not the one who would complain. I never turn my machine off anyhow!
[Windows 8 General] ivicask:
WIMBoot will actually provide faster boot speeds, SSD works best with compressed data, and WIMBoot takes advantage of this. IM in process of updating my images, and will try WIMBoot on my personal computer, will report back to let know everyone how it works :)
[Windows 8 General] GoodDayToDie:
Aren't you forgetting something? Where does the system decompress the image *to*? Most devices that will be used for WIMBoot don't have enough RAM to do a very good job of running out of RAM entirely; they will either need to write the decompressed data to the pagefile or to temp files on the SSD. Either way, you're now reading from SSD, running it through a codec (which is admittedly very fast), and then writing to SSD. Writes to Flash memory are decidedly *not* fast, although with enough striping they can give that impression for bulk throughput.

Also, "SSD works best with compressed data" is complete BS. Ever since the 90s, it's been faster to store and read compressed data (because the CPU time for the codec was completely dominated by the savings in I/O time that were the real bottleneck), but that's because I/O was so slow. SSDs have very, very fast read performance, which minimizes the advantages of compression. Additionally, depending on the compression used, it may actually be harmful; unlike with magnetic storage, overwriting separated parts of a large file (because you need to update the compression dictionaries, for example) is much slower than overwriting the same size chunk (or even a larger chunk) of contiguous data (this assumes files larger than the SSD's physical block size, which many will be).

Don't get me wrong, using compression with an SSD makes a lot of sense anyhow. If nothing else, it goes some distance towards making up for their relative lack of capacity (my work laptop has about 200GB of data on an only-mostly-full 160GB SSD). It *probably* improves performance overall too, although not by nearly as much as one might expect. It may or may not be better for the wear leveling; some writes will fix within fewer blocks than they otherwise would need, but many won't and some might need more.

I just don't expect WIMBoot to be an improvement in performance, not unless the system has enough RAM to basically run out of a RAMDisk. Even then, it'll need to write any changes to the data back to persistent storage, though it can do that performantly in the background.
[Windows 8 General] e.mote:
I doubt WIMBoot will affect boot time much on SSD, one way or the other. Its main benefit is for 16/32GB entry tabs. Strangely, no one has yet to comment on the size savings, even though it's been a day since the update leak. That's probably an indicator of how many Windows tablet users are out there.

I've no use for the update, but it's still useful as a patch roll-up. Have slipstreamed the MSUs into the ISO, although will pick up the official ISO once it drops on April 2.

Given the low-profile of this update (and deservedly so, since it doesn't do much), I'm curious if we'll see another minor update in Q4, if nothing else than to give marketing something to bump sales with. Else it's gonna be a third bargain bin Christmas in a row for Win boxes.
[Windows 8 General] GoodDayToDie:
Eh, minor UI tweaks can be significant even if they're not a lot of code. I for one welcome the return of context menus in Start (for mouse users). Yes, I can use the AppBar, but it's significantly less convenient (part of why I stay out of "Metro").
[Windows 8 General] SharpnShiny:
Me too.

I'm astonished at the evolution of the argument; we (who find what came before to be more efficient and convenient) have the onus of proving that we aren't stuck in the past (accused of disliking change in general). Instead, I think the onus is on MSFT to make things work. :victory:

Though, I have to say that many of the cues that I absorbed from using Windows 8 (the original) which indicated that the OS 'wasn't made for me' have gone. The tweaks in 8.1 and Update 1 make it much more usable for me now. You even find me sometimes using Metro apps like Appy Geek or Mahjong. But if it's true that the Windows team is going to bring back the start menu in Windows 9 (later this year or next year, I'd say spring 2015) then I'm not sure why I should try to adapt to the touch-menu screen. :confused: The same rumours say that the desktop will be reinforced instead.

p.s. I look at the positive press and excitement about these updates and more so now than ever I'm convinced that there is deliberate leaking.
[Windows 8 General] ivicask:
Honestly, i dont care about how much ram will use as i got 16GB, on other hand i lack space on my 120GB SSD, so its nice feature for me.

About perfomance im not sure yet until i try it, you can read HERE first hand info form ppl who already booted it in new way, even on regular HDD..

On side note, FINALLY fastboot drivers for HTC devices are fixed with this update, not sure if other devices had same problem.

There is little less RAM usage, and HDD space usage for me is 100% same after i used

Dism.exe /online /Cleanup-Image /StartComponentCleanup
Dism.exe /online /Cleanup-Image /StartComponentCleanup /ResetBase

To cleanup winsx folder, and other update files.
[Windows 8 General] ivicask:
So if anyone cares, i managed to boot via new WINBoot method even on regular HDD(WD Black 1TB) and without EFI MBO.

Its my personal fully loaded image loaded with all programs..Photoshop, office, players, etc...

Comparsion: Disk usage before 33GB /22GB after

RAM about 5-10% more usage, if you have 2GB or more you shouldn't worry at all

Boot speed is actually faster even on regular HDD, and starting apps like Photoshop is little faster

But it should run much better form SSD, my regular HDD is make lots of noises, and its usage is high most of the times.

About how it looks/works, it very simple, master image is on disk, and windows just show pointers on C:\ disk to the actual image which i puted to c:\image\final6.wim. The image never changes, just differences are stored on disk.

Fun stuff :)
[Windows 8 General] e.mote:
So WIMBoot also compresses 3rd-party programs you put into the image? Because else a clean x64 install is 13GB (sans swap/hib/page files), and I can't see how you squeezed 11GB savings just from Win system files.

Assuming your ratio (about 1/3 saving) is the same, then we're looking at about 4GB reduction for system files, which sounds about right. For 16GB devices, further reduction would be needed, which means the recovery image partition would be toast. That was a low-hanging fruit that MS never bothered with.

So what it boils down that this is a revived Stacker/DoubleSpace scheme from 1990, to shoehorn Win into 16GB devices. System perf will obviously suffer, especially on the Atoms that this is targeted for. CPU will take a small hit, but a larger hit will be on disk I/O. Cheap tabs have slow eMMC, and random reads are already a problem. Will be interesting to see benchmarks on upcoming 8.1u1 tabs.
[Windows 8 General] e.mote:
For those who want to get space reduction for your small tab, but without the "Stacker" shtick in Update 1:

http://winreducer.net

For those wondering what Update 1 has:

[YOUTUBE]3oIn7cSJbZ8[/YOUTUBE]
[Windows 8 General] ivicask:
Yes, all the programs i wanted to add are added inside this image and run from it without problems, i remember reading somewhere only some software may have problems with it like antivirus programs while scanning..(before they update their software)

About savings, some of space was used by hibernation and virtual memory (4gb), but that's variable that doesn't change, and probable not needed on devices as tablets.. (this was PC obviously). With normal install entire disk usage was 33GB, and after WIMBoot install only 22GB, you wont see such big difference unless you also add other software to the image like i did (about 30 program's installed).

Now, nobody will install so much software, so you can count standard images with basic stuff pre-installed (without system page and hiber files) can easily be under 6GB's, and considering most of the space is automatically an combo recovery partition as this WIM is read-only, and can be used easily to recovery device to original state.

But im already noticing some other potential problems, will test a bit and report back :)

EDIT:It wont be performance hit on NAND/SSDs, it uses some CPU and RAM for decompression, but that's not noticeable, and only thing important for this memory's types is fast random access time to work perfectly with WINBoot. End results is better performance than usual, at actually lower cost!!
[Windows 8 General] e.mote:
I can't agree on the "better perf" claim. Not all NANDs are the same, and the slow eMMC in cheap tabs have pretty crappy random R/W speed. Any increased I/O will exacerbate the bottleneck. Has anyone tried torrenting on their Windows mini-tabs?

The problem with having a static compressed blob is that space savings decrease over time, along with system performance, as subsequent updates are added. Since the blob can't be changed, then updates won't replace the old files (DISM optimizing commands are now useless), and the additional layer of indirection with pointer/index files will grow by accretion. Even for tablets, it's a lot of complication to get the measly 4GB extra space. Of course, for PCs it's a non-starter.

I'm fairly disappointed, but not surprised, that MS once again has taken a smoke-and-mirror approach to managing Windows' bloat. It's the same approach taken to get faster boot time, ie with caching and delay-loads. There are many things that can be trimmed out of Windows w/o affecting core functions. I've got a clean box, so will try out WinReducer and see how it fares.
[Windows 8 General] ivicask:
You are right, updates are also thing that concerns me, as size on disk will grown up with time, i hope they add some kind of cleanup utility with merges/synchronizes changes to main WIM disk so space can be recovered after major updates..
[Windows 8 General] e.mote:
I think WIMBoot is a stopgap workaround to get Win tabs to the lower price points this year. The reason why Windows has a recovery image (along with multiple layers of redundancy) while other mobile OS'es don't, is because it's easier to break. WIMBoot will make Windows even more complicated and fragile, and recovery well nigh impossible, since currrent recovery tools don't support it.

It begs the question of why MS doesn't simply use existing functionality, and enable disk compression by default. I'm guessing that OTF compression doesn't deliver sufficient compression to be viable for the "30% saving" goal.

WIMBoot is an ugly workaround, in that it makes Windows more complicated than it already is, with minimal benefits. I don't see it as a long-term solution. Hence I doubt it will last long enough to develop a supporting tool suite.

From a larger picture, Win 8.x is in a high state of transition, given that it has yet to get traction, and MS is reportedly trying every which way to improve its prospects. Thus everything related to Windows is "subject to change," and I wouldn't rely on anything as carved in stone. MS has promised the "vision" thing at Build, which is a month away. I expect we'll get more clarity then.
[Windows 8 General] mcosmin222:
The whole WIMBoot idea sounds very bad for low end devices.

Having to decompress and trade RAM for flash storage on a device that already has limited CPU and RAM while also being cornered by battery life is a terrible idea. I don't think Microsoft will do this for low end devices. I know the codec is fast (CPU manufacturers can probably even include peripherals to hardware accelerate it), but it will still require extra computing power which could be used somewhere else.

Cutting corners from other places will probably be a better idea.
[Windows 8 General] e.mote:
>The whole WIMBoot idea sounds very bad for low end devices.

It's only bad for techies who like to customize their setup. It's good for OEMs to get Win into 16GB tabs. As said in the specs, WIMBoot can do double-duty as the recovery partition (6GB), so total saving will be around 10GB, and net footprint will be 8-10GB. That's doable for 16GB (15GB actual) devices. uSD slot provides more cushion. As ivicask found, it can encompass non-system software, so Office and OEM bundleware can also fit.

Standard file recovery tools may not work, but it doesn't matter. Small tabs have limited use-cases, and tablet users are more tolerant to "closed" setups (eg all RT and Clover/Bay Trail devices to date). Recovery can be limited to the factory reset, and whatever limited space allotted to restore points.

Faster footprint growth is not a problem for Win tabs' 6-12 month envisioned lifespan. By this time next year, everybody's attention will be on Win9, and this year's devices will be old toys under the bed. Win tablets aren't yet mainstream, so it's easier for devices to be orphaned. Clover Trail and RT tab users aren't getting much love right now.
[Windows 8 General] mcosmin222:
You completely avoided my argument.

It does not really matter if you are able to shrink the install image as long as it comes with an actual performance cost in both RAM and CPU, a cost which will basically be visible "across the board" of tablet usage. Windows 8 tends to have the reputation of being very snappy even on hardware restricted platforms. This is due to optimizing and reducing the number of background tasks to a minimum, which would be all in vain if WIMBoot would be implemented.

I think a better approach to reducing the footprint would be to customize the HAL and remove the components which are unlikely to be used on a tablet. Windows RT actually did the right thing this time around by scrapping legacy code, but they went a bit too far with the idea. .Net apps should still be allowed to work on Windows RT
[Windows 8 General] KJ98653:
What do you mean by orphaned? People are hard at work right now on the next update and many of these poor-selling devices are receiving plenty of love! Much more than they deserve based off of consumer interest, shipments, and money spent. As far as 9, computers will be thrown under the bed as if they're a Windows Phone that's not compatible? Improvements in the text-based design language and after the fact optimization for legacy input/output is going to be a revolution rather than evolution of current path? Virtually all the new touch/non-touch PCs sold along with the legacy PC install base can come along for the ride if they want to upgrade.
[Windows 8 General] e.mote:
>Improvements in the text-based design language and after the fact optimization for legacy input/output is going to be a revolution rather than evolution of current path?

Chatbots got an upgrade. :)

The above prompted me to look up gobbledygook generators. My first pass netted this wimpy one,

http://www.plainenglish.co.uk/gobbledygook-generator.html

which only cycles through a few canned responses. I recall some nonsense gens that can do entire phrases which are even semi-coherent. There was one that allows you to input keywords of your choice for more relevance to whatever topic you want. Can't remember where I saw them.

Branching out to "nonsense generator" did get some decent hits. Here's my fav so far:

http://nonsense.sourceforge.net

Anyone know of better ones?

The sad part about this is that, with the deteriorating literacy in these online exchanges, sometimes you can get better interaction from a chatbot.
[Windows 8 General] dazza9075:
You may be aware that English isn't the first language of most people on the planet, if you don't understand something someone says, ask them to explain better don't publicly belittle them, there isn't any need for it, its not funny and it doesn't add to the conversation in the slightest
[Windows 8 General] mcosmin222:
e.mote,

The other guy whom you are so readily attacking actually had some good points, you just failed to see them because you do not understand how windows works..

The modules which ensure backwards compatibility with older devices and software represent most of the footprint windows carries around.

But I will spell it out loud for you, as it seems you are not capable of understanding this either (among other things windows related)

To reduce the footprint of windows install, one has to trade this for something else, like performance drops across the board (like with the wimboot suggestion) or sacrifice some legacy compatibility.
[Windows 8 General] KJ98653:
The RT doesn't support the power cover because the accessory channel/connector was altered. Firmware updates for accessories (most it supports) are not relevant to whether or not it will receive OS updates. Stop the FUD and baseless speculation about support.
[Windows 8 General] Physiotherapist:
can I upgrade to a higher version of windows 8.1 with the same license key?

---------- Post added at 05:09 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:53 AM ----------

can we take back the scoring of windows where it rates its performance like in 7?
[Windows 8 General] SixSixSevenSeven:
same way you could in windows 7, although the scoring windows returns is almost completely meaningless.
[Windows 8 General] Droid90s:
update to windows 8.1 was successful :laugh: and wait to do what microsoft' future :laugh: