yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Galaxy S 4 General] Vaira:
Sure Samsung develops KNOX further, it's their marketing concept and Samsung has to offer (at least they think so) a security concept to corporate / business consumers. Android has still the touch of a 'customize' OS where nobody has a real security concept. Most business people still prefer iOS therefore.

(I have posted the link since it addresses the S4 and this thread is related to the S4)

This is IMHO no game about to win or to lose. It's all about information.

One should keep the Samsung device 'unmodified' and use it that way that one doesn't lose the possibility to use KNOX IF one needs it. (Sensitive data, corporate secrets...)

Or flash a custom recovery / root it and be AWARE to void your warranty FOR KNOX and have fun. Be aware you can never use KNOX again.

If your device gets broken in another way and a seller argues with KNOX flag 01 to deny his responsibilities, then insist on your rights...

KNOX is actually no issue when informed....:)

I have just got the P605 (LTE Note 10.1 2014)....I'll root it after a few more days testing since I don't need the KNOX security concept.......:D
[Galaxy S 4 General] lefti696:
You are terribly wrong !!

It has to do EVERYTHING with warranty of device. When KNOX is tripped that means you messed with bootloader/root/custom rom (it doesnt trigger itself) WHICH is modifying phone's software. And as warranty rules says, every attempt to modify phone's software voids warranty. It is that simple and clear !

Even European department of Samsung officially confirmed that. So dont write such a bs.
[Galaxy S 4 General] My1xT:
but only the manufacturer warranty. the seller warranty which is mandatory in Europe is still intact.
[Galaxy S 4 General] Vaira:
I don't write BS, please watch your tone, what I wrote is based on EU laws and practical examples...

It's rather BS arguing by yourself....I am sorry to say that...statements with no references...

Could you please link to the source where the European department of Samsung should have 'officially' confirmed that and what they confirmed ?

Warrantor at first place in the EU is the seller and not the manufacturer.

And even if Samsung should have 'confirmed' their own previous claims, what is the legal point? Samsung does not make laws, it is the EU, I suggest to read directive 1999/44/CE.

Also from practical experiences nobody from those 2 I know who had RMA'd their Samsung devices has got a problem with custom ROMS...

Contrary to you I have informed myself, tbh it seems you are just parroting things which have no real aspect...wating for your source / practical examples...:cowboy:

here is one of my: http://matija.suklje.name/rooting-and-flashing-your-device-does-not-void-the-warranty-in-eu

If I should be wrong.....I am here to learn....

right...if it's legal to refuse it at all...
[Galaxy S 4 General] My1xT:
well the manufacturer warranty you play by that one's rules...
[Galaxy S 4 General] spamtrash:
Speaking about, such statement in warranty can be easily put as illegal by any court.

Case: because of Samsung's greedy, they incorporated many bloatware apps into ROM. But, without root or messing with anything else like recovery etc, user is able (and sometimes is enforced) to modify these apps, put into ROM as the system apps. to be more specific: most users even did not noticed that they are changing the system's software. Example of such action: unattended update of GooglePlay and similar apps.

Conclusion: modification of the phone software is one of its basic function, therefore the request to user to not modify it is pure absurd.

Not to mention the ROM OTA updates, which are severe system modification, performed by users.

Quod erat demonstrandum.

Furthermore, as many other ppl said here, the manufacturer's responsibility is related with the manufacturing/material faults. Example: Samsung without any proof, without seeing the faulty element, just after call replaced the faulty BD series battery for me Samsung UK, battery delivered by DHL from Netherlands, but I think that both countries are in EU...)

Finally, about the statement itself: I'm wondering if you know the Rule One: link to statement, or it's not existing.
[Galaxy S 4 General] Vaira:
The point is not what Samsung says, the point is that the EU laws say that there must be causality of the consumers action and the damage. And it's a thing of the seller and the consumer. If Samsung denies relying on something that has nothing to do with the particular damage the seller has to bear costs, the laws are on the consumer's side.
[Galaxy S 4 General] My1xT:
but then you must go to the seller not Samsung directly...

when you go to Samsung, their rules as in their warranty paper apply...
[Galaxy S 4 General] sauron82:
Then I suggest you read the warranty card that came with your device. It says right on it that any modifications to the original software will void your warranty. Updates have always been excluded from that provision, as long as they are installed by an approved method, such as Kies or OTA.

Manufacturer warranties provide coverage provided a device is used as intended by the manufacturer. If I use my phone as a doorstop and then send it in for repair because it's cracked, I'm not covered by the warranty. If you use a compact car for heavy towing and the engine blows, the engine won't be covered under warranty because you're using it for something that it wasn't designed for.

Yes you are free to do with your device as you wish. But that doesn't necessarily mean that you're covered by warranty.

For me this comes down to personal responsibility, or rather a general lack thereof. I knew I was voiding my manufacturer's warranty when I rooted and tripped Knox, and so did most people. It's stated on almost every root method & rom thread on XDA. But now some have a problem and want warranty back, and get mad when the warranty they willingly voided isn't being honoured. Before, we could just flash stock and send it in. Now with Knox you can't, and that's what people are really mad about I think.

It's this simple: if you're worried about warranty, don't root. Use your device out of the box as intended by the manufacturer and you won't have any problems with warranty.

Click thanks if I helped you
[Galaxy S 4 General] lefti696:
Yes you are right.

@ sauron82, thank you.

Here are warranty rules by samsung:

samsung.com/levant/support/warranty/warrantyInformation.do?page=POLICY.WARRANTY

(i dont have as many posts to post urls so paste it in you browser)

and as you can read in point 5 and 6, "Unauthorized modifications carried out to the product" which means root/ etc voids your warranty. But you still have consumers'statutory rights and the consumers'rights. And here is the thing. Consumer rights, i have experience with that (with Sony btw). Lets say your motherboard is not working properly, you send your galaxy for service repair. They say warranty void because of knox (your modification). So you quote your consumer rights. And samsung says; it is consumer fault. Proof ? For example rooting and cpu overclocking caused overheating, faulty rom cause overvolting etc.This is practical example and this is how it works for us customers. You or some kid writing blog and other people who say/think too much and act less, they say you can get a lawyer and go to court or sue samsung, yeah, good luck with that, i want to see how it goes :) I hardly think you are going to win, moreover you loose tons of your time during which you will be without working phone. In my country a lot of people lost theirs warranty this way. And they cannot do anything about it. If you have dead pixels on screen there is a chance to get a free repair but not with f.ex. motherboard (witch is very common).

"because of Samsung's greedy, they incorporated many bloatware apps into ROM. " you dont have to buy this phone they say. Buying is agreeing with their rules. Updating rom via ota or updating google play is not an unauthorized modification.

Guys im not against you, im also not happy about knox but this is how it works.

But i am instantly pissed of when i hear when somebody says, knox does not void your warranty, do root, you have rights and still can get free repairs blah blah. Rooting is loosing warranty. And we have to deal with that.

Btw Im also looking for way to root my galaxy without tripping knox.
[Galaxy S 4 General] Ghorin:
Hi

One comment concerning the seller warranty : the contract i signed with my phone seller indixates that any modification done by myself will void the warranty. My seller has the same rule than the manufacturer. No difference for me (Europe/France). So i don't root or flash my phone for the moment.
[Galaxy S 4 General] timberwolf60:
I already quite Samsung phone and enjoying Sony Z1 more then two months. Cheer!

Send from my C6903 using TapatalkPro

my SG device: Z1 rooted 136 ROM by NUT with 2.7.123 xzdualrecovery, mod by GavityBox 3.1.1 [JB]

Samsung S2 in sleeping mode.
[Galaxy S 4 General] jaswinky:
If your contract doesn't specifically say root/custom ROM or kernel, etc as a modification, also installing any app from a web (downloading the apk) or even from Google play is a modification... Both are new software modules on the phone... What's the difference for legalty? None. A modification could be open the device and connect a by-pass to the battery, or a cable to the antenna internal pin to increase WiFi coberture, etc, but not necessary software if it is not clearly specificated. If so, installing Google earth from play would also void your warranty.

Enviado desde mi GT-P7510 usando Tapatalk 2
[Galaxy S 4 General] My1xT:
but the directive says that even partial damage must be repaired, unless you are at fault, so if you get a damaged memory chip and are rooted you should get one replaced coz root wont break a memory chip.
[Galaxy S 4 General] coolkoushik07:
Same here

Sent from my Xperia Z1 Compact (D5503)
[Galaxy S 4 General] lefti696:
You are so wrong again. By rooting/custom repartitionig/changing kernel settings you can damage memory chip and I am certain that Samsung will prove you that without any problem :)

Good luck with your thinking that after rooting you still have any warranty. And please don't spread this wrong opinion anymore. End of discussion for me, there was said enough here about it.
[Galaxy S 4 General] My1xT:
Well you can also damage it without root, either if it was damaged before (Samsung sudden death syndrome) or by simply rewriting it enough and in the eu directive there must be a causality between mod and defect, meaning that if you didn't break the device with rooting, your warranty should be intact, but of course your seller wants to avoid that by claiming pretty much everything.

Just google root warranty Europe or alike...

Gesendet von meinem SM-N9005 mit Tapatalk
[Galaxy S 4 General] spamtrash:
First of all, I did not wrote to you, but OK, let's have a small talk.

Secondly, please use citation from the mentioned by you warranty card stating such exclusion.

Last but not least, provided by you interpretation excludes even use of third party equivalent for Touchwiz, not to mention about theming.

---------- Post added at 12:52 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:44 PM ----------

Emm... less emotions, more facts please. Putting different partition will not physically damage the phone, first. Secondly, root itself cannot damage anything as well. Changing SOME kernel settings, like overclocking, COULD potentially physically damage the unit because of overheating.

Regarding my personal warranty claim, I did not even bothered to unroot my previous phone (S3) when it went to warranty because of non responsive touchpad, and the screen was replaced as it shall be. The phone returned to me wiped out completely, with newest ROM, but this is standard procedure.

Based on that, I can suppose that it depends from the individual approach or from the fact that provision of proof of the damage reason by the software changes could be difficult.

Otherwise, I am certain that it would be plenty of threads on XDA beginning with: Samsung charged me for warranty because of root...

Well just for the end, your own words:
[Galaxy S 4 General] sauron82:
I don't have to cite anything. Read your warranty card that came with your device. You're the one saying that you still have warranty if you root. You say you sent in a rooted phone for warranty repair and they honoured it, that's fine. Ultimately it's up to the repair people to fix it anyway or not. But if you root, you should have no expectation of a warranty. If they choose to honour it anyway, lucky for you

Good luck saying what you've said here in court. All they need to say is you modified the device in an unauthorized way. I can't load custom, unapproved software on my PlayStation and still get warranty. How's this any different?

Click thanks if I helped you
[Galaxy S 4 General] lefti696:
Yes i can, emmc bug devices can be bricked by that. And yes i know that the rood doesnt do any damage (i also wrote about it earlier), but phone is 'open' for ANY modifications after that.

Lucky you then :cowboy: As i said before it is hard for Samsung to prove knox connection with faulty screen or touchpad (housing, chrger etc) but with other parts it doesnt necessarily be this way.

But again, im telling you the way the Samsung acts in my country and it is not the way some people think it should be. If you are such a hard heater you can go to court with samsung for year or two. If you cant stand dealing with knox buy f ex Sony device as some people here.
[Galaxy S 4 General] Vaira:
Why do people point to Samsung warranty, when it plays no role in real life? The seller is your man...

Why do people take for granted what Samsung writes and not what the EU laws say?

And why do people wish good luck on court when this situation never happened (no example), but there are examples where rooted phones got repaired without trouble???

I can say why...to assume an air of superiority...

"But again, im telling you the way the Samsung acts in my country and it is not the way some people think it should be."

General blah blah....you know a particular case? Details? What device, what was broken? After what time? What said the seller to it?...

lefti696, your posts are pointless assumptions, worries without fact. Samsung makes no laws.

I also have this card, never read it, though, paper doesn't blush, but here we have consumer protection, protected by law.

If you are impressed by Samsung's own idea of warranty it's your problem, but please do not put it ower EU laws and panic others without practical examples....

There is no point to fight, EU laws says different to Samsung's own idea, that's all, to me the EU laws count...and examples are there where people got their stuff repaired.....
[Galaxy S 4 General] spamtrash:
Well, I think that basic difference is that here, in Europe, we have some consumers organizations, which are pretty helpful.

Secondary difference is that in european courts, the manufacturer has to provide the evidence that the unit of equipment became faulty due to the software modification, not just to provide the information that they think that the fault is because of software changes. Human rights, you know;)

Furthermore, I am really sorry, but my warranty card is not including such ridiculous statements like: any modifications except of the modifications done via Google Play or OTA, as you have stated, therefore I have asked you for citation mentioning that. If you are unable to provide such, fine :rolleyes:

---------- Post added at 03:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:51 PM ----------

first: please do not state absurds.In most cases related with emmc bug, the device wasn't booting up (for download either), so it was not possible to say if the device was rooted, used for nails fixing or other.

so what that the device is open for modifications? It is the legal duty of manufacturer to provide the evidence which softeware change caused the hardware failure, not otherwise.

As I stated previously, in my country I do not need to go to court with Samsung, because there are some consumer supporting organizations who will be more than happy to do this on my behalf. and, maybe because of that, nobody need to do such. Of course, Samsung TRIES to deny the warranty in some cases, but anyone presenting basic knowledge of their rights causes the case review and position change.

Finally, your assessment is mistaken... please be informed that:

1. I HAVE phone, rooted, with KNOX onboard and KNOX flag 0x0, but I am not using KNOX for other reasons (I think that so called "privacy suite" developed together with NSA (as officially stated by Samsung) is very funny idea, but there are other alternatives, like for example for mounting encrypted disk - EDS.

2. I DO NOT NEED the 4.4.2 version of Android because the satellite navigation is very important function (for me), so as long as the glonass bug will not be eliminated, I do not see the reason for update.
[Galaxy S 4 General] sauron82:
Seriously? This has nothing to do with human rights. It's this simple: If I sell you something, anything, and you modify it and use it for something other than intended and it breaks, I'm under no obligation to fix it, and there isn't a court in the world that will tell you different, no matter how many consumer's rights groups are willing to fight on your behalf. They can fight, and they might settle, but they won't win.

Of course your warranty card doesn't say that, it uses the broadest terms possible. It says any unauthorized modifications. If your device isn't rooted out if the box, then rooting is unauthorized.

For everybody else, if you root, do not expect warranty service. They might give it to you anyway, but you can't expect it.

Click thanks if I helped you
[Galaxy S 4 General] Vaira:
You can expect it here in Germany and you have the right to in the EU, as said two examples here....no word back from the seller about root.....also consumer protection where you can call...

If one is unsure then one can ask the seller what will be his way before you buy....quite simple...

One should also be aware what is more economical to Samsung's service technician.....to check what is defective, to check for root, to send it back without repair and to lose a consumer...his work time is the same and a complete replacement is often the most economical way...work time is money, value of raw materials rather not....and to lose a customer also not....
[Galaxy S 4 General] veper:
Might apply in a lot of cases where consumer modifies hardware. We're talking software here.

I suggest you read this thread
[Galaxy S 4 General] sauron82:
Exactly. Ultimately it's at the discretion of the repair guy who actually works on your device.

Not everyone lives in the EU. That's why they use broad terms like any unauthorized use. Software and hardware could fall under that. But in the same way, if I buy a GPS unit, install custom software for a faster lock but don't modify the hardware, the warranty is still void. The big thing here is using the device as it's intended by the manufacturer, which is open to interpretation. All they need to say is the device is intended to run our software (Samsung's), and now you're not using the device as intended by the manufacturer.

Click thanks if I helped you
[Galaxy S 4 General] veper:
Yes, sorry - the EU directive from the quoted thread obviously applies to European Union only. But it does apply. So no matter what Samsung wants, the directive still applies.

And just to avoid confusion - I'm talking about rooting a device and thus triggering Knox status. EU citizens should be covered in this particular case.

Can't say for flashing GPS units - depends on what one would flash. If it's modded maps, the warranty shouldn't be voided (again, in EU). One can easily reproduce flashing modified maps to GPS unit and prove that device doesn't break. Exactly the same is true for rooting.

On the other hand, flashing modded firmware (bootloaders, etc), could turn out problematic, as manufacturer *could* prove that by flashing modified bootloader a consumer bricked the device.
[Galaxy S 4 General] sauron82:
Exactly, which proves that modifying software can affect hardware. That's why in North America the courts decided it's too complicated like that. If you want warranty, you must use it as designed and as intended by the manufacturer. If you modify it in any way, you lose warranty. I know the EU is different. For those of us elsewhere, if you expect warranty, don't root.

Click thanks if I helped you
[Galaxy S 4 General] Vaira:
Yes, too...

But it is an Samsung employee and he has also to follow a directive from Samsung...he cannot completely act on his own (to repair it one time and the other time deny warranty when rooted)...and he has a boss.

When one does not agree with Samsung's idea of warranty and there are laws on one's side, then sometimes one has to make efforts to enforce the rights...life is not always smooth and easy....drama about court is far off...we have phones, lol, to call Samsung technicians to talk about and we can re-send the device to another one....we don't live in a movie where anything is drama and has to be clarified on court...it's about a few hundred € if at all....
[Galaxy S 4 General] spamtrash:
Sad to say, but you are just not right. EACH warranty terms and conditions for goods sold in Europe must follow the law. This is the reason why the card contains such sentence: The terms and conditions here does not affect your statutory rights (or similar).

Therefore, they may write in the card even that making a call longer than 2 minutes is voiding the warranty, but it will have none legal meaning for customer (if the length of speak is free law for any citizen).

I know that there are some oppression countries where the good of manufacturer is put on higher level than the good of people. Where, for example, the phone is sold locked to the network and unlocking it before the end of contract is illegal.

But what we can do? We can only have the hope that the light of democracy and freedom will spread in these countries as well.

Regarding that:

Please stop writing such things, or please refer me to the point in ANY Samsung Phone manual or/and warranty allowing me to install and run the Angry Birds. Using your own arguments: this application uses graphic and sound hardware for extensive period of time, so according to your position, using this game (or any other) if not provided directly by Samsung, can cause the warranty void by premature wear of the phone's hardware.

Going to conclusions: I can expect that my rights will be followed. Of course, in some countries, the people have limited rights. they can have Twitter removed, they can have the internet censored they may be not able to make the legal copies of purchased music/movies for their own use, they cannot unlock their phones or they have seriously restricted customers rights. In some most oppressive countries, the government ruled intelligence agencies are actively cooperating with some manufacturers, enforcing them to include their software into the OS (example of enforced "security")

But in general, if I'd look for closed OS for my phone, the IOS or WP would be my choice, not Android.

Considering that, looking how Samsung would like to spread the (a good name, KNOX, by the way) idea of putting me in the jail of closed system, I can easily swap my phone. HTC allows to unlock bootloader without breaking the so-called warranty.

But even better, TESCO in UK announced that they will release the phone comparable or better than S5 in this autumn. I can wait for open phone, or for the democracy growth.

Samsung WAS open and convenient... for some time.

Summary: we all have a choices: we can buy another phone, which would not contain illegal (in some countries) statements, or we can move to more democratic countries to live in.:)
[Galaxy S 4 General] sauron82:
Not everyone lives in the EU.

If you think that installing an approved app from the app store is the same as rooting and installing a custom bootloader, custom recovery or custom rom, then you're on your own.

Click thanks if I helped you