yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Galaxy S 4 General] melvatron:
Knox, MH8 - full root not possible?

I've had my phone less than 2 weeks (GT-i9505) and the first thing it asked me when I booted out of the box was to do a software update.

Thinking nothing of it, I ran it. The update took me to MH8. Then my next though was to root.

Guess what? Knox Warrany Void=0x1

I had no idea what this meant, and to be honest I didn't even care... until I noticed that my root wasn't fully working. That's when I started researching.

But no one seems to have mentioned what I've seen: You cannot gain full device root on MH8, only user root/root permission - Is that even a thing and what's difference?

Half of my root apps would complain that device wasn't rooted and the others would be fine. Titanium Backup works, yet Helium doesn't?

How so? They both require root... and yet I'm seeing the same sort of disparity occurring with many more root-required apps.

Now here's the strange thing - I've tried about 3 root methods:

- CF-Auto-Root

- Motochopper

- Install a SuperSU/Superuser via update.zip in recovery mode (from Stock/TWRP/CWM)

None seem to give me a full root. I've used the Root Checker app... which says always says I have rooted.

But Voodoo OTA Rootkeeper outputs a bit more... saying in all methods that Device Root=NO, Root Permission Granted=YES

In some combinations, I've soft-bricked my handset but in total, I've flashed my phone 17 times... (yes I've counted)

And the only thing that now gets it working is a MH8 flash via Odin or Kies... but I can never get a full device root?

Has anyone else noticed this or can confirm this?

I care not about knox, although I am interested in a fix - but I think it's more of a concern if it's not possible to achieve a true root.

It's also worth pointing out, at no point (even with a Kies emergency recovery) did my knox flag change from 0x1
[Galaxy S 4 General] szczeslaw:
I know, that for us - people that like to modify the phone - it means bad luck.

But before you start b****g on Samsung, remember that 99% of customers will never modify their phones, so for them it's not an issue.

On the other hand from IT administrator perspective it's a perfect solution. You say, this feature should be only placed corporate phones. But also remember, that BYOD (Bring Your Own Device) model is getting more and more popular, but from IT perspective it's not that good. Even (or maybe mostly) higher corporate management doesn't follow security policies. And by having KNOX in every phone, Samsung gives administrators perfect tool, and that will be the phone to recommend when someone asks "i want to buy a private phone and use it also at company".

So in a way it's a step to potentially boost Galaxy S4 sales.

A believe that 9505G is not touched by this "issue", so if you're unhappy with KNOX, just sell your Galaxy 4 and go for Google Play Edition.
[Galaxy S 4 General] eliashadow:
Maybe only 1% root their android phones (I think its more but anyway) but these people have made xda community which have made Samsung and android what they are.

Dont forget that samsung leaked firmwares to us, the 1%, to test and improve any issue...

No custom, no xda, no android...Thats the power of 1%...
[Galaxy S 4 General] ducutu:
It is possible that the KNOX eFuse could be triggered in older boot-loaders too and listed in download mode only in the new ones ?

If I rooted the phone before BUT now running fully stock(unrooted) MGA -updated with Kies, after the next update MHx will it show 0x1 or will start fresh?

What do you think/ happened to you ?
[Galaxy S 4 General] chickentuna:
Dammit. I've sent my phone for repairs and it needs a board replacement. What I'm afraid of is that they will flash the rom with stock firmware. I just hope that they flash an older firmware not MH8
[Galaxy S 4 General] bungadudu:
Don't think so.

Previously I had bmf8, rooted, custom recovery etc.

Sent it to replace the front glass and got it back on dmh6. Fortunately all counters, inc. Knox counter, are 0x0.
[Galaxy S 4 General] theq86:
Knox is deeply integrated into the firmware and hardware. There is no knox opt-in. It's there. Just like a pimple on your ass.

1. Many people want the TouchWiz version of Samsung. And till now, everything was ok.

2. Play Edition is more expensive. But hardest point: It's not available everywhere!
[Galaxy S 4 General] exprxp:
http://forum.legija.net/showthread....g-galaxy-S4-(i9505-and-similar)-via-USB-Cable

Open the phone, make a short on 1 resistor eMMC CMD line, then power up the phone, connect to PC and U will see QDLOADER drivers need to be isntalled. Then Instal QD drivers, then run I9505 BOOT Recovery program, choose correct COM port then press Start.

That it.
[Galaxy S 4 General] bobdoblo:
What happens if you just delete the Samsung Knox.apk?

NeatROM S2 Mods

+

Battery Guide
[Galaxy S 4 General] MistahBungle:
OP - Great thread (thanked/5 stars).

Some great posts/points by people explaining why Samsung have chosen to implement this (I know that doesn't help us people who like to mess with our phones & don't use them in a corporate environment where 'security' is paramount).

And some outlining why Samsung are stupid not to give people an easy way to get around this; not so we can try to get warranty service when we shouldn't get it, but so we can continue to be their 'guinea pigs' when they leak firmwares, and in being able to flash/use custom firmware, our experiences with same provide Samsung themselves with ideas they use in future stock firmware versions/firmware on future phone releases.

Despite perceptions to the contrary in the way Samsung behaves, they do take notice of what users like us say about their phones/our usage experience with their phones on places like this/elsewhere.
[Galaxy S 4 General] Shiryu:
You won't have Knox.apk on device :eek:
[Galaxy S 4 General] theq86:
I updated the OP with currently known facts and assumptions. I hope we can get together a whole picture how knox warranty flag behaves and which actions we are safe to do, and which not.
[Galaxy S 4 General] Shiryu:
Well... I did flash MH8 via Odin after failed to flash pre-rootet MH1, and Knox flag remains 0x0. Lucky looser? ;)
[Galaxy S 4 General] theq86:
This is from the comments on chainfires g+ post:

That means, even if it is not wanted by samsung, it can happen in some cases, that the flag will be set to 0x1
[Galaxy S 4 General] exprxp:
U failed coz inside MH1 firmware u got a old aboot.mbn. Flash programm should stopped on that file then write you message like "Nad write operation failed"
[Galaxy S 4 General] gsmyth:
I'm on MGA firmware (havent installed anything higher) and I have some Knox apks under /system.
[Galaxy S 4 General] robogo1982:
The Knox apks have little to do with this, this goes far beyond a few apps on the phone.
[Galaxy S 4 General] olavopb:
[How to] Flash back to old bootloader after updated new bootloader

In this thread, (Galaxy S3), it was possible to downgrade bootloader >

http://xdaforums.com/showpost.php?p=36314480&postcount=1

Where is Dr. Lover (OP post)?? He indicates the means to perform the procedure!
[Galaxy S 4 General] gsmyth:
Of course its a lot more complex as evidenced by the recent issues and challenges. Just wanted to show that there is Knox related stuff already in there, however the new firmwares appear to have enabled it for everyone across the board.
[Galaxy S 4 General] 95mediatech:
Come to Cyanogenmod all.
[Galaxy S 4 General] Kriomag:
hmm

cyanogenmod is like a bread without a butter! ;) most of things i like in samsung is in its software, why would i throw it away and use so naked system.. like on some low end china android phones?
[Galaxy S 4 General] :
Yes we only got partially root, it seems like some apps doesn't being able to write data don't know why, but i think its the apps that writes in /data/ and not in /data/data/ that can't gain root, Xposed has the same issue and you need to fix it manually with root explorer or any other piece of root browser
[Galaxy S 4 General] silentscreamer:
Knox Container prevent full root access, no matter what you are trying
[Galaxy S 4 General] spinky360:
[MENTION=4435346]LastStandingDroid[/MENTION]

Have you tried JTAGUSB ? Is not that jtag with RIFF BOX ... search on google
[Galaxy S 4 General] melvatron:
I have root browsers, but can't seem write data to relevant the areas (due to that partial root problem)... can you point me to some material?

Is that regardless of rom choice hereafter an MH8 flash, or until a true solution is found?
[Galaxy S 4 General] silentscreamer:
The only solution will- possible- be: stay @ AOSP and stay away from Samsung Stock Firmwares. Thanks to the new locked bootloader, Samsung (NSA) Knox and 'Secure Boot' there is afaik-at time- no way back to native root access after MH8 Firmwares ...

Samsung layed us an deserve a decent SH!T Storm for that b!tch move.
[Galaxy S 4 General] r.spanish:
Hi, this is my first post on XDA (long time reader). I have a question which I dont think has been covered in this thread.

Lets say you had a pre-knox firmware and bootloader. Then you rooted your phone, installed a custom recovery and ROM. So now you have increased binary counter, but no knox present.

Then you flash a stock firmware with knox enabled bootloader. Knox warranty void should now be 0x0.

Now you want to check binary counter and reset to 0, use Triangle Away which requires root. But you cant do this if you want to keep knox flag at 0x0.

Im not worried far as warranty is concerned but just curious to know your thoughts on this.

:)
[Galaxy S 4 General] tech_head:
If I had a phone with no Knox, there is ABSOLUTELY NO WAY I WOULD FLASH A KNOX bootloader.

I'm waiting for my GS4 to arrive. My current phone is a RAZR HD with an unlocked BL. I don't run custom ROMs but I like the idea of completely owning my device.

This is why I won't buy an LG G2 or HTC One.
[Galaxy S 4 General] clonednull:
Made my day mate! :D
[Galaxy S 4 General] Hawke84:
Hi all,

I've made a Q&A thread for knox bootloader related questions in an attempt to move some of the questions to the right place in the forum.

feel free to share this link and any help to support the questions would be great!

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=2470635

then hopefully this can become more of a dev research thread again
[Galaxy S 4 General] silentscreamer:
https://www.samsungknox.com/overview/technical-details

Have a look at this just to see what Sammy has done to us.

Fun times, farewell :rolleyes:
[Galaxy S 4 General] spinky360:
We know or from the beginning
[Galaxy S 4 General] :
ehm i've got no idea it looks like there something i don't know
[Galaxy S 4 General] kapiszon53:
Thank you very much for this. Good job !
[Galaxy S 4 General] rshook1986:
I have a new gs4 and just installed.

official update for it ota.

Now i check in download mode and eveything is official not custom but the warranty void is on 0x1..

Hows this possible?:\
[Galaxy S 4 General] Kyuuba:
I hope Samsung change change their minds about that shi*t, I have the money to buy the S4 but reading all this bull.... about Knox I will surely never buy a Samsung phone as I'm seeing people getting warranty void just by upgrading their firmware to an official one.

Something is not working as it should in that policy and that will cause a lot of problem to Samsung EVEN if they simply plain to say to their customers that they don't care, having Knox void or not.
[Galaxy S 4 General] donalgodon:
Samdung could not possibly care any less at all about this issue or how any or all of us feel about it, and no amount of *****ing, moaning and petitioning will ever change that in million years.

Their position is that if the user has rooted and/or installed custom recovery and/or custom ROM, then he/she has forfeited the right to warranty service.

It's designed (in theory) so that the KNOX fuse/trigger won't be tripped unless these criteria are met, and it's simply (IMO) masquerading as a "safety" feature, when in reality, it's a Trojan horse that effectively alleviates Samdung's warranty responsibility.

"You used your phone in a way that we said you shouldn't, so no warranty for you, and even if you didn't, no warranty for you!"

Regardless, people will line up to plunk down their cash for the next Samdung/Touchwiz bloat fest that is controlled by the wind direction in your farts.
[Galaxy S 4 General] Kyuuba:
It's not right that if you are using an official firmware and upgrade to an official one you get warranty void.

I am very pleased with the new stock firmwares, 4.3 and up, in other words, no custom is needed to feed your needs, no custom is better than original.

I don't want to use a branded firmware full of dumb apps wasting my space.

Then if "even if you didn't, no warranty for you" it might be the reason to switch to Apple's new iPhone 5S that once again humiliated Samsung showing how far behind is Samsung developing hardware and coding.

I wish things weren't like that just like when the S2 was good on its times.
[Galaxy S 4 General] dratsablive:
So my firmware being MH5, I don't have to worry about Knox, and should avoid any Samsung OTAs?
[Galaxy S 4 General] stesteste:
if counter goes up in official ota update surely they still have to repair if anything goes wrong, also if you do use custom rom now we have excuse that we only did ota update which moved knox counter
[Galaxy S 4 General] pthacker85:
There isnt any custom Firmware better than the stock i ve been on 5 or 6 custom and the best one is the stock. Now on the latest unrooted stock Firmware

Enviado do meu GT-I9505 utilizando Tapatalk 4
[Galaxy S 4 General] clonednull:
Sorry mate but it seems you havent learned enough here on xda developers posting this statement.

Concerning performance: show me one untweaked system in a benchmark highscore result.

Concerning customizing: no i dont want to live with samsungs design opinions, i have my own!

For me: no root, no rom! ;)
[Galaxy S 4 General] silentscreamer:
@ DEVS ...pls have a look at

Knox locked Bootloader Exploit: http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=2472065
[Galaxy S 4 General] Boing7898:
Are you sure that it's for Knox's bootloader?

That article is pretty old:

http://thenextweb.com/gadgets/2013/...-secure-boot-check-on-att-and-verizon-phones/
[Galaxy S 4 General] lyriquidperfection:
I saw this article a long while ago and has nothing to do with knox. It simply explains how the bootloader works, what its based on and the theory of how to run unsigned code using an exploit.
[Galaxy S 4 General] Boing7898:
Yeah, that's what I thought.

I had hope :(
[Galaxy S 4 General] designgears:
The behavior seems to be different on the AT&T Note 3. I have flashed an older firmware and the current firmware several times, both KNOX flags are still 0x0.
[Galaxy S 4 General] :
then its still a unlocked bootloader that doesn't trigger the 0x0 flag or you downgraded with a signed kernel/recovery
[Galaxy S 4 General] szczeslaw:
Yes, and just to deny few (considering whole sales of GS4) people warranty service and p**s off xda users, they have invested probably millions of dollars in developing this whole solution, including US DoD certification, cooperating with some MDM solution vendors etc.

There would be easier ways if it was just about warranty. Binary counter is present in Samsung phones since GS2. Why not to simply use eFuse instead of counter, making it impossible to reset? This way they wouldn't have to invest in KNOX solution...

It is a safety feature. And, as a person that works in corporate IT department (and knowing what users can do), i have to say it's very nice feature.

Of course as a person that likes to modify, or at least root phone, i'm not happy that one cannot choose if wants to use KNOX or not, without voiding warranty. But it's still a nice feature.

And i believe (or a least hope) that soon someone will find a way to root without voiding warranty. I don't care too much about custom ROMs, as i do not want to use them on S4 (it's very good and fast even stock), but root is still useful.
[Galaxy S 4 General] nicholaschum:
I have this on my Note 3...

Does this mean I have a locked boot loader?

Will I have any problems rooting?

I know I will have to turn off the Reactivation Lock when root, but should there be any problems from the grey text shown?
[Galaxy S 4 General] Hawke84:
Yes u have knox. It's not locked but flashing anything or rooting will void warranty
[Galaxy S 4 General] on2a:
No 0x0 means your Knox Warranty is still valid
[Galaxy S 4 General] nicholaschum:
Alright thanks guys :)
[Galaxy S 4 General] MaKTaiL:
Knox flag only triggers when flashing a custom file through Odin.

Moving between firmwares with the same bootloader doesn't.

Note 3 just came out, it only has one bootloader at the moment. So no need to worry.
[Galaxy S 4 General] Mastiha:
So can I go from a Australian based firmware to a UK based firmware (stock firmware) without triggering the Knox flag?
[Galaxy S 4 General] raitospk:
Still the same question, how do we get root access without triggering the Knox counter...
[Galaxy S 4 General] Hawke84:
Can i just bump the Q&A thread i made for Knox questions to try to keep this thread for dev research into the knox bootloader:

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=2470635

;)
[Galaxy S 4 General] MaKTaiL:
You can't.

Yes.
[Galaxy S 4 General] testadeferro:
I wonder if in EU this root knox crap will void warranty. Because in EU root isn't ilegal and won't void warranty.
[Galaxy S 4 General] jonboyuk:
I think that's kind of a pinch point for many. For example, I'm a student and I have absolutely no intention of needing/using Knox. Quite frankly I don't care if it doesn't work....but I *do* care if I've invalidated the warranty.

I guess we won't know until someone who's rooted their phone tries to send it back to Samsung for a warranty repair....
[Galaxy S 4 General] testadeferro:
I will send mine in next few days. I ve a faulty membrane in my screen do heating issues. Let's see what happens.
[Galaxy S 4 General] mrgold2505:
http://matija.suklje.name/rooting-and-flashing-your-device-does-not-void-the-warranty-in-eu
[Galaxy S 4 General] Fornowagain:
Has been mentioned once or twice and kinda off topic.. Post all the EU directives you like on how they're supposed to behave, doesn't mean they will. Until someone takes them to court and wins....
[Galaxy S 4 General] nfsmw_gr:
Seems interesting, but what do we get out of this?

Can I, for example, send sammy my phone with stock firmware even if it has knox warranty voided and/or system status changed and still be covered? :eek:
[Galaxy S 4 General] Hawke84:
I guess it's the same question as before could u get warranty with the old flash counter greater than 1 for hardware issues? This seems like basically a new flash counter of sorts. SSDD!
[Galaxy S 4 General] mrgold2505:
For what i read samsumg must prove thats the fault is related to a sofware misused. If you have dead pixxels in you scren they CAN NOT refuse to fix it
[Galaxy S 4 General] Fornowagain:
You're missing the point. They DO refuse, if it's been messed with, binary counter, whatever. They just say you've not used it for its intended purpose and you can go swivel.
[Galaxy S 4 General] testadeferro:
I don't think so. They must to prove with facts that a original rooted firmware caused this specific hardware fail. Not with claims. How can you proof that a faulty original Samsung software (rooted) caused heat? They can't. I think here in Europe they have a lot of problems when it goes to court. You can always point the dead syndrome as proof of they faulty missile in many phones. Just one example. And in doubt they must to repair.
[Galaxy S 4 General] trveller72:
After 10 pages or so of chasing own tails, finally a good piece of info.

Knox is here to stay, it is a 'feature' and we have to live with it.

The other manufactures will follow for sure.

The devs will found a way to root, but it would not be the same. It would be like jailbreak an iphone.

How ironic, now that ios7 looks like android.:o
[Galaxy S 4 General] testadeferro:
Indeed!
[Galaxy S 4 General] Fornowagain:
Once more with feeling, As I said they're

already doing it,

they WILL reject a software modified device under warranty and even charge you to fix it. Now someone needs to take them to court, sounds expensive.

Example
[Galaxy S 4 General] :
I would say thats store dependent, usually they don't help you if they know you're rooted and a regular "customer" just walks away
[Galaxy S 4 General] nfribeiro:
It's worst because with the iPhone you can restore it and you are back on track. No binary counter or efuse... I hope dev's will find a way to revert this...

Enviado do meu GT-I9505 utilizando Tapatalk 4
[Galaxy S 4 General] senectus:
The efuse is a clever idea from the enterprise security front... You have to admit that.

Essentially turns and Android device into the most secure OS device overnight.
[Galaxy S 4 General] ewok666:
Yes but I'm not sure abusing that 'clever idea' is overly clever in the long run. Then again Samsung's warranty is worth next to nothing in Australia: My SGS3 4G started growing bubbles on the battery cover i.e. the clear coating on the back had a problem. I rang Samsung and got nothing but BS from them ranging from "it's physical damage that I caused" to I'd have to send the phone in for a review and "it could take weeks before I got it back". For a $10 battery cover that I could get on Ebay this wasn't worth it but if Samsung want to worse than Apple then I'm quite happy to get the Z1 or something similar next time. BTW, HTC repaired the screen on by bootload unlocked One X without charging me anything.....although that was HTC UK. I'm sure most Australian warranties are complete crap or at least that's what I was told by someone who imports phones from the UK AND sells local stock and my experience backs that 100%.

I bought the Samsung because they used to be quite liberal around rooting and warranties. I don't over/under-volt or -clock so I expect hardware faults to be fixed under warranty. Should I hard brick my phone then I'm happy to pay for it......but for all I know Samsung doesn't give a damn.

EDIT: I also wanted to add that as long as some idiots make 16GB phones with next to no free storage there will always be a need to root and make more space available and it's a bit harsh that we get punished while working around limitations beyond our control
[Galaxy S 4 General] dxzh:
UK consumer position

As a general point on underlying defects in a modded mobile product in the UK, your best bet is likely to be to rely on your statutory rights

against the retailer

. Forget any manufacturer's warranty which is a bit of red herring since it is typically so bogged down in exceptions, ... unless you are desperate. See post for link to useful informative UK OFT guide to retailers on their obligations to consumers - http://xdaforums.com/showpost.php?p=46223527&postcount=8.
[Galaxy S 4 General] testadeferro:
That could be the good point claiming warranty. Nice!
[Galaxy S 4 General] Hawke84:
I know the Three UK store arent interested in warranty claims they just say to contact Samsung directly "as they have very good customer care" i had an issue with mine and the didnt want to know they just told me to go to Samsung. Right or not they wouldnt budge on this..
[Galaxy S 4 General] bungadudu:
Yeah, I called Samsung and they told me that "any unauthorized intervention on the original software results in voiding the warranty"

We already knew this, there are people who said their warranty was voided when going to repair centers because of that knox counter 0x1.

Maybe it isn't fair but this was the practice all along and nothing stops them to continue doing this.

Don't like it, sue them, but let's try to keep this thread clean for the people who know one or two things about this problem so that maybe they will find a way to.. circumvent this.