yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Galaxy S 4 General] E.Cadro:
A reminder this threads intent is for research about Knox.

This thread listed below is for Q&A and general discusion.

[Q&A][i9505] Knox Q&A / Discussion Thread - ask questions here!

Please post accordingly. :good:
[Galaxy S 4 General] mitky82:
Here in Bulgaria, some people report 0x00 after services repair. Before that they have 0x01, of course they use triangle away for other counters .They are not replace motherboard, just take their phones and they are upadated and knox reseted ;)

The question is how services reset knox counter, maybe some small usefull tool, or some file in odin...
[Galaxy S 4 General] :
We need someone, who has contacts to Samsung or who works there.

Gesendet von meinem GT-I9505 mit Tapatalk 2
[Galaxy S 4 General] -uniQ-:
I was tripped by Knox but took my S4 to Samsung.

They repaired it

New PBA and Battery replacement according to repair notes. (maybe its to do with PBA whatever that is)
[Galaxy S 4 General] mudthomas:
I read some blog posts on the site samsungknox dot com. Sorry, can't post links.

The site seems official, but I don't know for sure. It does not seem to have been addressed anywhere and it was posted on the fourth of this month.

One post describes rooting with knox, one describes cf-auto root and one root de la vega. The cf-auto root post even has a link to installation instructions. On a samsung site?

The blog can be found at /en/blog. I hope I don't get banned for having a chopped up link in my first post, just want to know what other thinks about it.

Here is a quote from the post called "About rooting Samsung KNOX-enabled devices and the KNOX warranty void bit":

"When it comes to rooting, there have been some questions regarding Samsung’s KNOX-enabled devices and if they can, or should, be rooted at all. From Samsung’s perspective, the short answer is yes, but it is important to take into account the end user’s situation since device rooting should be evaluated on a case-by-case basis due to conflicting requirements."

All posts are "Submitted by Peng Ning (VP, Enterprise Security Group) on Wed, 12/04/2013"
[Galaxy S 4 General] Tanis64:
I also have a S4 with MKE (latest Stock 4.3 for DBT)

I always root my phones.

So I did rooting the S4 with CF-AUTO-ROOT after I installed the MKE via Odin.

After rooting you have Stock Recovery.

Next step is to deinstall all KNOX Software via Titanium Backup.

So for me KNOX Software is completely removed from my phone.

What is not removed are the SELinux Bootloaders and the triggered KNOX Warranty Void Flag.

I can install CWM based Recoveries via Odin and can also go back to stock Recovery via Odin.

I also successfully test to reflash the MKE via Odin.

What Odin can't do is flashing a stock that has old Bootloaders without SELinux enforced and KNOX Warranty Void Flag.

So you are not able to downgrade.

The KNOX Software is an attempt by Samsung to enter the Enterprise Segment with their devices.

So remote control your device is a enterprise feature that's needed to security standards for big company's or government use.

Regards

Send from the outback with my GT-I9505
[Galaxy S 4 General] malybru:
Mod Edit

Thread cleaned

As was stated yesterday,this is a research thread.

Let's keep the Q&A separate.

Look HERE

Thank you

malybru

Forum Moderator
[Galaxy S 4 General] cyberdiamond.steve:
I can't post this where I think it should really go int he DjeMBeY rom thread http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=2250824 because I do not have enough post to reply to a development thread.

I installed a knox bootloader firmware a while ago and flashed this 4.2.2 rom before there was any knox warnings anywhere about it:

DjeMBeY

Model: GT-I9505 (4.2.2)

PDA: XXUDMH8

PHONE: XXUDMH8

CSC: OXXDMHA (29 codes)

Kernel: 3.4.0-1220396 (21.08)

Build Date: 21.08.2013

Changelist: 1220396

This seems to have SELinux permissions enforced which stops an app (app also requires root) I use to not work.

So now I have the new knox bootloader and a knox 0x0 status currently.

Is there ANY way to get onto a rootable and SELinux NOT enforced 4.3 rom.

Without tripping the knox flag to 0x1?
[Galaxy S 4 General] radicalisto:
Quite the read with interesting questions which you asked then answered. It's food for thought that's for sure.
[Galaxy S 4 General] bungadudu:
Wow!

Quite the read!

Along with your initial rant - http://xdaforums.com/showpost.php?p=47865015&postcount=703 this doesn't look so good for us.

Maybe this is why they think about upgrading all their phones to 4.4?

This is way worse than NSA!

Let's not forget Samsung is the biggest player in the android scene, they have hundreds of millions of phones and tablets!

This must get to the xda portal for start! Engadget, android police, ars technica, etc.!

// [MENTION=2142488]Absolon[/MENTION] Contacted the xda staff, told me the xda news writers will be informed about this!
[Galaxy S 4 General] chudy_85:
Can anyone check this file abt-persistence-service1.log this file send some info to Samsung you can check in presdata /absolute

Wysłane z mojego GT-I9505 przy użyciu Tapatalka
[Galaxy S 4 General] miloytyn:
Hi,

Didn't read through the whole thing, but this caught my eye. X.509 is not encryption method and thus saying that AES is much stronger than it is nonsense. Additionally, X.509 is used to store public key certificates which are used with asymmetric encryption, whereas AES is symmetric encryption algorithm. The use case for symmetric and asymmetric encryption algorithms are usually totally different and cannot be directly compared.
[Galaxy S 4 General] szczeslaw:
[MENTION=2142488]Absolon[/MENTION], i think you have completely missed my point.

I'm not debating on what KNOX is. For me it's a feature.

Unfortunately we live in a world, in which if you don't want governments to spy on you, you have to find yourself some nice forest, build some shelter in there and not communicate with anyone. Sorry. "Dumbphones" also register at base stations and show them your location...

So basically least you can do i stop using any electronic devices now.

Why are you not complaining so much about Google enforcing so many things on us?

My point is, that you can still change a rom. Sure, you'll trip a KNOX flag, but otherwise you will have fully functional ROM. Whichever one you like. Want GE ROM? No problem. CM? You got it. TW? Sure.

So please just install i.e. CM on your device and forget about SEAndroid, NSA and any other of your concerns. Bootloader itself (that will be the only part of the phone still containing KNOX related stuff) will not send anything to NSA.

It's not like you cannot do it, is it? And this is my point.

If it was "so desperately enforced" on you as you calim, they would completely block the possiblity to flash anything else. What's the problem for them? Instead of tripping the flag, they would just forbid booting any non-KNOX rom by BL. Doable? Sure. Implemented? Not.

So it's not enforced...
[Galaxy S 4 General] Danilovieira:
Mine is also 0x1.. I am using root without any issues
[Galaxy S 4 General] Absolon:
Aww, you didn't read my "wall of text". Now I get a tear in my eye ;)

PKI

Yes, I did a bit of trying to ease up the technical parts not to explain the whole chain of the PKI-model and the certification chain with revocation and

trusted CA's etc.

AES interconversion

But I don't understand what you mean with AES?

The X.509 is basically just a container of numbers. I don't know which PKI they are using but the RSA part is basically just a bunch of numers, right?

So you can, like in OpenSSL just interchange that part into whatever crypto that OpenSSL supports. Don't recall the calls. Wast long time ago I

coded but it's a spit in/spit out basically.you can extract it and use it just fine as a crypto-module if you want.

I might be wrong here. But if they have a PKCS 12 in the prom that is signed, there is nothing to say that you can't use AES as a crypto to scramble the

RSA or otherwise. If you have a in chip solution for it there is no way to access it without a signed part (that can be revoked). And good luck starting to

manipulate a black-boxed chip made by Samsung, with undisclosed documentation. That one can indeed have an e-fuse against tampering.

I did a Google for it, cause I got unsure, as I have said in another post, I'm not up to date with my coding skills since I change path is life dramatically

over 10 years ago (got a late 30-year old crisis and went to school again in a completely different direction but I'm drawn like having rubber bands toward

the tech-parts that I miss nowdays).

But what I found this at StackOverflow: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/57384/inter-convertability-of-asymmetric-key-containers-eg-x-509-pgp-openssh

That question was from 2008 so I think it's not "beta" anymore but haven't investigate it further.

Please update me if I'm wrong!

Since I'm not up to date and can be totally wrong here, I'd be more then happy if you could straighten it out for me :)

/Abs - That hope you read this at least... :P

---------- Post added at 06:42 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:22 PM ----------

Yes, I should probably just link it to some other page since it was written a while ago when the e-fuse was still a matter of debate and that I think is

cleared now that it isn't.

Beside, who are you to tell me what yo keep to myself or not? I haven't read anywhere that you don't have the right of free speech and I can speculate

all I want. It's not like we live before 1989. ;)

You must really work at Samsung.

But that is just yet another theory based on the fact that you are protecting them on every step :p

Oh, and Knox is a positive thing - something you said in another post.

"Living in a box"

/Abs
[Galaxy S 4 General] miloytyn:
The link that you included explains how you can convert rsa keys to pgp ones, which also uses asymmetric encryption. Well actually they use both asymmetric and symmetric since asymmetric encryption is computationally expensive to use for whole messages. Anyhow, my point is that symmetric and asymmetric encryption are totally different animal. Additionally Samsung is most certainly already using aes with knox since it wouldn't make any sense to implement it with only rsa etc.

I know quite a lot about technology related to knox as I have been implementing secure boot functionality to couple of different products (not for Samsung or anything commonly known) But I have general idea how Samsung probably has implemented this or at least how I would do this. Most definitely if they would have wanted they could have implemented knox so that we would not be able to flash any custom roms.

Actually I read the whole message afterwards :) The fact that they have added certificate to phone does not really matter that much as there are many other id numbers already which could be used to track you. Also even without knox or selinux you really cannot know what the phone is doing as the modem sw is closed source and it could be sending anything to wherever Samsung wants.
[Galaxy S 4 General] k1mu:
Yes, but EVERYTHING on a computer is basically just a bunch of numbers.

X.509 is a standard that specifies how public key certificates are encoded. What's in an X.509 certificate is a public key and an identify assertion in the form "this public key belongs to Samsung". That binding of the identity to the certificate is then asserted by a trusted certificate authority in the form "Some trusted party has been given proof that the public key really does belong to the asserted user.

Every website you go to with https uses a public key certificate that says that "https//www.google.com" really did get you to the Google webpage, and "Google Internet Authority" asserts that it's OK. You trust goog, so it's cool.

X.509 public keys have a private key associated with them. That private key never goes anywhere outside of the owner's control. For example, unless there's a leak, you'll never get Samsung's private key.

Those key pairs are created using the RSA algorithm. Signing of the bootloaders also use RSA digital signatures.

Then you start talking about AES as if it's stronger than RSA. RSA is an asymmetric encryption algorithm (it uses two keys) and AES is a symmetric one. Apples and oranges. Usually, you use RSA in conjunction with AES for bulk data encryption.

However, that's not relevant to Knox. Knox uses signatures.

Now, you asserted that RSA required each phone to have a unique key for signature verification. That's completely incorrect.

The reason for using a digital signature that's RSA based is that it's self asserting. Samsung signs the bootloader using their private key and links the associated public key with the file. When the bootloader starts, it looks at the certificate and sees if it's trusted. If so, it recomputes the signature and verifies it with that public key. If that looks good, the file is allowed to execute. Everyone has the same signature value and same public key certificate attached to their bootloader components. There's nothing in this that's unique to a given phone.

That's a nice stream of acronyms that's basically meaningless. You're apparently concentrating on key conversions from AES to PGP or something else. None of that matters, given that the crypto is sound. Nothing needs to be converted for this to enforce what it wants to.

The only practical way to bypass this is to find a way to introduce a new trusted certificate into the bootloader trust chain. Nobody's found a way to do that yet.
[Galaxy S 4 General] TheEgonSpengler:
Do we even know where and how its stored?

Lots of information seems to indicate this is all software based.
[Galaxy S 4 General] zackwire:
Got in contact with Samsung Brazil about warranty void trough root/Knox tripping and I´ve been said that if i root my device I automatically lose my warranty. So, bad luck for us in Brazil. :(
[Galaxy S 4 General] tommydrum:
Well at least you can install roms in first place, AT&T and Verizon went the next step and screwed us over. We can't even root it without a hack. Most I can install in terms of roms are TW based roms. The US government hates us. At least I can odin mf3 to mf3 and have official status, so warranty still good... I hate locked bootloaders...
[Galaxy S 4 General] zohaer21:
for those who remember

knox was tripped after I installed a samsung rom .. long story short the samsung care center had to replace the mother board to get knox 0x0

it took several days of consulting between local samsung here and samsung korea .. the only option for restoring knox back to 0x0 is a mother board change !!!

am talking about the i9005 note 3 not s4
[Galaxy S 4 General] Armazia:
How could you proove you didn't root the phone? If you got it fixed, everyone should be able too, even if they have 0x1.. Just with some small talk.
[Galaxy S 4 General] nirockz11:
I was just about to ask the same.
[Galaxy S 4 General] zohaer21:
lol .. see the phone came with older firmware which was rooted with universal dlv .. when I returned the phone back to stock rom MK7 or something the root was gone but knox was tripped (what I should have done was uninstall super su before reflashing the latest samsung firmware as one of the posters here mentioned ) .. went to local samsung told them phone got updated to latest version via OTA and started boot looping .. connected it to kies rrestord the firmware but now the knox is not working .. I was getting the device is not authorized to enter knox mode error ..

they fixed it under warranty and since I was involved with the tech since day 1 .. the only thing that works for restoring the knox counter back to 0x0 is a motherboard change according to samsung korea .. its hardware based and not software based ...
[Galaxy S 4 General] bungadudu:
An emmc replacement is way more cheaper
[Galaxy S 4 General] testadeferro:
I discussed this earlier with technicians from tamet (official Samsung portugal support) and they confirm me that knox is an efuse and can't be reseted. The instructions they have is that only mobo replacement will back knox to 0x0. There's no other way. [MENTION=2142488]Absolon[/MENTION]

The leaked software doesn't touch the bootloader. What is strange is how they use allways the same guy (16 year boy) to bring out leaks.
[Galaxy S 4 General] miloytyn:
The fuse can also be inside the SoC and replacing that is quite difficult.
[Galaxy S 4 General] bungadudu:
It's been confirmed months ago that replacing the emmc resets knox counter.

Should be a max $100 operation..
[Galaxy S 4 General] bungadudu:
Guys, read this - https://www.samsungknox.com/en/blog...ox-enabled-devices-and-knox-warranty-void-bit

First two paragraphs.

Basically Samsung is OK with rooting and non-samsung roms.

So we definitely should have hardware warranty!

Too bad that with all the power the Internet has nobody presses Samsung to say out loud they will honor hardware warranty even in the case of rooting and loading custom roms.
[Galaxy S 4 General] the Doctor:
True.

The article makes no such claim. It only explains why and how the Knox bit gets tripped. They say nothing about honoring the warranty if the device had been rooted or a custom ROM loaded.

But the article does confirm that Knox uses an e-fuse:
[Galaxy S 4 General] bungadudu:
No, the article doesn't say nothing about warranty.

But if they are OK with rooting and understand the needs of some to use custom roms why would they void the warranty?

If they were to publicly say that they'll honor hw warranty no matter what, they would gain huge popularity.
[Galaxy S 4 General] Mittaa:
... and they really need some popularity after the "Samsung mobile fire case" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QHd-_qncEU :D
[Galaxy S 4 General] Absolon:
Thank you for the info. It's strange since Samsung they told me that it was a reflash when I talked to them and they said the same to my friend yesterday.

Do you happen to know what this e-fuse does? What does it cripple?

If I knew that I can act here. That is deliberate destruction of your bought product. I doubt that is legal with out consumer laws.

Can you provide more info? If not here then in a Private Message?

I need to have something to work with and right now I'm tired to yell at them. I want to act.
[Galaxy S 4 General] Adnan73:
I'm tired to read about Knox, I killed my phone and wait to get him back from the service center, but definitely my next phone will not be a Samsung
[Galaxy S 4 General] Absolon:
Ok, so we have a statement from Samsung confirming is an e-fue but just does set the bit nothing more, but if that was the case why the:

As final note, it is possible to damage the device if the system software is not written properly. For example, system software can potentially overwrite the hardware configuration data stored in e-fuse and render the device completely irrecoverable.

So I guess the next logical step is to give us ways how to prevent this to happen?

What part should I be careful about? There is no info. That need to be explained more.

Will a Knox-tripped device accept any BL you want? As far as we know it doesn't.

And what is a "Knox-container"?

I will call Samsung tomorrow. I don't buy it's "just" a flag. My phone has not been the same after the Knox has been tripped. I have still issues with the Wifi.

I reflashed the phone. Still was some app it refused to install, hell forgot what it was. Something trivial.

Still installs LuckyPatcher. If any app should be prevented isn't it that and the mod-market and not some Bootloader from the xposed framework or what it was?

/Abs
[Galaxy S 4 General] IberianPrince:
It's a money making scheme from Samsung, as well as control of your device. You do a bad flash, your device doesn't boot, Samsung says your Knox is tripped and you need a new board, easy €100+ for them, whether it really needs it or not.

So this way they're making money twice over. On your original purchase, and a repair it may need that falls under a Knox tripped fuse.

The only way they will learn is when the public votes with their wallets and moves on elsewhere, like I did.

I want an honest company. Tell me up front what I can & can't do, then give me options. Don't ever make the decisions for us, and restrict OUR devices that we worked hard & paid for...

Sent from my HTC One/Nexus 7 (Sold my Knox Pox S4)
[Galaxy S 4 General] testadeferro:
I think in Europe could be done something legal against them. Efuse is a spyware and privacy violation.

That's why they're not getting many info on knox. I think we need more then cracking knox find a way to proof that knox is a spyware and with this proof claiming our money back sending the phone back allegedly he as a spyware inside it. In Europe we've many protective laws in that direction. We just need to find proof.

Knox hacking is to forget. I think nobody will ever hack this.
[Galaxy S 4 General] Adnan73:
I also (now) think that no one will hack Knox
[Galaxy S 4 General] Absolon:
Tried to get some info from their support-channel.

It's the same merry-go-around - Contact your local -> Contact "Fort Knox" -> Ignore -> Contact local -> We get back or contact "Fort Knox"....

New try tomorrow. This was actually good news. They say they have an e-fuse. So it destroys SOMETHING. My guess? Probably their hidden partition.

That makes sense if they warn for certain parts. I will get info on what parts are "forbidden" to touch.

Does someone has Knox 0x00, I9505/06 and could do a raw-dump off the prom? Not from fstab. A raw dd, not caring for any stop-chars. Go until it's end.

PM me. I'm building a collection here. Don't know how? I'll try to find the right commands tomorrow. If you had a Linux it's just dd, I haven't done it in Windoze,

but maybe someone can provide that info?

I have an idea ;)

Uh oh,

Abs ;)
[Galaxy S 4 General] gazeddy:
My next phone wont be a sammy neither will any of my close circle of friends over this
[Galaxy S 4 General] Adnan73:
[MENTION=2142488]Absolon[/MENTION]

It is not bad to think that anyone really pay attention to you.

You know

calls, phones, emails - hardly

but does not prevent you
[Galaxy S 4 General] Riskytwin:
I'm also very disappointed with that knox thing after a long long time being a fan and fond of Samsung buying all their phones: Jet, Omnia II, S, S2, S3 and S4. If Samsung do not solve this knox crap in favour of us, who give them live, they don't deserve us as customers anymore
[Galaxy S 4 General] bass_me:
My worry is that if Sammy really proceeds further with KNOX and it looks like they are serious, how long before other manufacture's follow suit and implement something similar? I've been loyal to Samsung for my last 5 phones but I'm done with them now over this KNOX issue. Probably going with a Nexus for my next device.
[Galaxy S 4 General] BoonDawk:
100% Unlocked

I got the update and it blew my sound and wifi. I flashed my i337m with stock 4.2 and it was still locked and showed void warranty so I rooted and used triangle away and it kept rebooting until I held volume up during one of the reboots and it went into stock recovery mode and SUCCESS counter reset. I still had the bootloader lock and no sound but my warranty was back. I updated to 4,3 again in hopes my wifi and sound would return but it did not. I took the phone back to koodo and five days later had it returned with 4.2.2 no bootloader lock!!!! The guy said they replaced the main board.

P.S. Don't forget to unroot.

and turn off the updates on your phone and kies!
[Galaxy S 4 General] dukhan:
You are one, we are two, 3, 4, ..... 1000!

Samsung does not care.

Samsung will defend the Knox by telling we brought more secured system to protect your personal files and documents.

I am pretty sure that Samsung made a marketing research before doing the Knox and while doing the research they took into consideration the number of the people those who will be disappointed and the people who will be happy.