yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] El Daddy:
One would have to assume they have to make it public at some point. I see 3 scenarios.

1) Thursday, Google will announce a live event on YouTube at 7pm EDT (play store event) and will announce it

2) The Play Store event is a Moto X type of event where media gets to use the Nexus device(s) for a later embargo lift.

3) It really isn't Nexus or KitKat related and there will be something in the future.
[Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] DowntownJeffBrown:
I think announcement on the 24th then they go on sale on the 28th and ship and have it on the 31st. Trick or treat kitkat style.... Maybe just wish full thinking but when that case just shipped I got a good feeling.

>^.^< Meow n7 2013 sent this
[Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] parelem:
will probably get the trick instead and not get the phone til January again :(
[Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] donalgodon:
That would be a nice treat!
[Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] achunt2143:
Is there any way to go to the event to see the nexus launch???? I really want to go!!
[Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] thesebastian:
the limbo awaits us.

Can't wait to see you all talking in a future limbo thread. Like a new chapter.
[Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] parelem:
fun will be had by all
[Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] javskies:
Don't speak such terrible words! Have faith in Google.

Unless there ends up being limbo again. Then **** them lol

Sent from my supercharged LGOG

---------- Post added at 09:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:06 PM ----------

Idk about you guys but I've actually hadn't gone to the kitkat site til today and its actually really clever http://www.kitkat.com/index-mobile.html

Sent from my supercharged LGOG
[Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] daddioj:
kinda old but i wonder if theres any truth to this

http://nexus5price.com/32gb-nexus-5-price-usd399-the-3000mah-battery-variant-confirmed/
[Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] ryude:
Fake.
[Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] daddioj:
figured. after having devices like the note 3 and LG G2 kinda sad over 2300ma
[Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] abalosmusic:
Exactly.. and the fact that the note 3 is external.. swapping batts would be cake
[Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] daddioj:
its always something with android. i just returned the G2 for the note 3 . fantastic battery life. but wifi issues. and STILL some lag in certain areas are unacceptable . but 8 + hours of on screen time made up for that. but still returned the device. at one point i thought about committing suicide and buying an iphone LOL :confused:
[Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Gr1771n:
I wonder if the Nexus 5 will be sold on t-mobile like the nexus 4 if so i might luck out on getting it that way
[Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Noble Six:
You think Google is going to shipping out Kitkats with the phones? Would be cool!

The candy kitkat.
[Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] abalosmusic:
Idump???? Ekkkk desperatoin...
[Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Gr1771n:
Yeah that would be awesome!

Sent from Gr1771n's G-nex
[Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] hello00:
tmobile's n5 will be like $599
[Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] GTMoraes:
That would be amazing!

'Till you find out that your unit is now covered in melted chocolate due to the common shipping mishandling lol
[Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Treshy:
no, nestle will ship every kitkat with a free nexus 5

Gesendet von meinem GT-I9070 mit Tapatalk
[Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] javskies:
i was gonna say, in theory that sounds great, but when your chocolate is all melted and you have a losing code in the wrapper the sad reality will set in lol
[Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Noble Six:
Forgot it would melt, lol, a coupon would be nice. Damn..craving that kitkat bar.
[Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] ricecake2000:
Idk if it would melt. They don't melt sitting in the store or in a backroom of a store.

They would clearly have to be android shaped or it would be silly.
[Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Takulas:
N5 will be a huge KitKat.;)

You`ll have to eat the chocolate to get to the phone.
[Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] fkloznica:
Does someone know the CET for 24th October event ?
[Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] cynosure4sure:
7PM (New York)
[Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Carzas:
Copying my own thoughts from another site, as it is more activity here:

I feel that since late last week, the big sites and bloggers have been really quiet about the Nexus 5, to the point where it is suspicious. Artem Russakovskii on Android Police had a rumor every day, and now he don't mention it at all.

So my "conspiracy" right now is that all the tech sites got the invitations for the Google Play event, but that they were not supposed to announce it to their readers, and therefor geek.com removed it, and AP went out and said that there was no news at all to be revealed.

I just find it weird that non of the sites would wonder why they have a Google Play event without any news what so ever, when we are so close to a new release of Nexus and Kit Kat. Why don't they dig deeper? They were all over it a week ago, but now, nothing.
[Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] fkloznica:
That means 00:00 or 01:00am by CET?
[Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Shira_nai:
Just bought optimus g pro weeks ago, if I know nexus 5 coming, maybe I could wait..

Oh well, dunno about the pricing here in Indonesia, maybe the price will still skyrocketing :(
[Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] 7TimesCursed:
This theory has been brought up before.. I'm not getting my hopes up. There is such a thing as too much foreplay...I mean teasing..
[Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] toffc1:
As I understand, if we forget the price, the advantages of Nexus 5 vs LG G2 are :

- Stock Android (why the hell do manufacturers spend $ on adding their own software if people don't want it ?..)

- Fastest Android updates.

- Better custom rom support.

- May be QI charging.

Am I right ?
[Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] beaver2233:
Pretty much
[Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Seadra:
For example, let's say they spent like 1 million dollars to build the bloatware including all samsung ****ty softwares and app store (samsung's). Well by those services they get customers to buy the softwares on their stores not of google's play store. so they earn probably 10 million. Making 10x profits. :good:
[Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] KoRRo89:
Also it's a matter of manufacture identifiability. Many of us can distinguish a stock rom from another easily and for manufacturers this is a good point. And different uis can confuse unexperienced users, for example I know people that think that touchwiz is the real Android so they don't buy anything but Samsung.

Inviato dal mio LG-P990 con Tapatalk
[Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] cynosure4sure:
Haha...i have the optimus g pro too.....just waiting for the confirmation that battery is good and i'll switch....og pro is an amazing phone but LG is notorious for updates.....don't see og pro going beyond 4.3
[Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Seadra:
Wakelocks on Nexus 4 was a problem, though not much when we root and add custom kernals. Still I'm sure I would like to be with stock on Nexus 5 for atleast couple of months before experimenting on it. Anyways, Nexus 5 will be having the same wakelocks too ?
[Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] undercover:
Let me get my crystal ball out and have a look into the future.... How the f is anyone supposed to know about wake locks for device that isn't even out yet?

I think that no, there won't be, since wake locks were caused by shoddy modem connection to soc.

Sent from N4 ?
[Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Vangelis13:
Only way to not have wakelocks is to turn your phone off. I've been using the n4 for a year and I haven't noticed any issues.

(Maybe it helps that I haven't used BetterBatteryStats since over a year..) ;)

Edit: ninja-ed by undercover. Wouldn't ye fckng know.. Bad coffee brew today mate..? :p
[Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Ensifolk:
No betterbatterystats no Wakelock detector, and only show battery level on Lockscreen is a peace of mind :) Use the phone and enjoy Google's powerhouse...
[Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] kokoon:
Not sure if it's been posted yet, but there's another render of N5 on amazon's Ringke sleeve product page, from a different angle where the headpiece is visible:

http://www.amazon.com/Black-RINGKE-Google-Premium-Package/dp/B00EPLTC1I
[Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Seadra:
No Kitkat's g+ today. wonder why :|
[Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] undercover:
Indeed. Very bad. 2h sleep. **** coffee. Stupid questions. Bad combination :/

Oh, and you are just too slow. The only place and time to slow down and take your time is in bed when... Well, you know... :p

Sent from N4 ?
[Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Seadra:
Dude, I was asking for guesses, ofc the phone is not out yet, and the problem of wakelocks was the SoC of n4 which was supposed to be made for tablets so I was asking for guesses on the s800 variant n5 will have, dumbass.
[Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] fkloznica:
Yep.. I expect announcement on 24th
[Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] undercover:
Ooooooh, you took it to the next level. Name calling. That's fail by default.

Btw, you asked for a guess you got one. So, as you know s800 is designed for phones with one of the best modems available atm, what do you think, will it have wakelocks like n4?

Think first, ask second.

Sent from N4 ?
[Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] prawnguevara:
It's about money. They don't do it for out of good heart and an enjoyment of making own overlay. Having their own overlay is for the business and bloatware.
[Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] lightskies:
You know, this timeline would all still make perfect sense if there were 2 separate events that night. 7pm for the play store and 8pm (same location, same people) for everything else. Rather than send out "leakable" invitations, they can just make an announcement on site ("Hey, you are all invited to stay for the next thing....").

I'm just struggling to figure out why they'd go to such lengths to keep it secret....from pretty much nobody. We all know the N5 is about to be announced, we already know the specs. Apple, Microsoft and Nokia have already fired their Christmas cannons and we're just waiting for Google's. It seems very unusual of them to drag it out like this.
[Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Paradoxxx:
Tech websites such as Android Police, CNET, etc are prolly under NDA. I'd find really strange that Google wouldn't present the Nexus 5 at that event tomorrow. After all that tease, via kitkat etc, that'd be a counter performance, since I think, most of people start to get annoyed by all of this.

We'll see tomorrow.

Envoyé de mon Nexus 4 en utilisant Tapatalk
[Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] adsam3927:
Announcement ?

Every morning around 6am EST I have been noticing that on Google + page for androidkitkat there has been a cryptic picture posted

Today however (other than on weekend) is the first time during the week that there has been NO posted photo.....I wonder if this means a countdown is over ??
[Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] ctowne:
Highly doubt it, but that would be nice :o
[Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] bilago:
It probably is all marketing.. look at the google trend for nexus 5 for the Month of October. Not bad for no advertising.

Nexus 5 Trending Graph
[Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] KoRRo89:
it would be pretty late, expecially if they stream it live for europe users, a different time would be much better to have bigger media coverage around the globe as they do for the I/O.
[Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] thesebastian:
You won't have msm hsic host wakelocks in the Nexus 5 because it won't have a tablet SoC like the Nexus 4 with an external cellular radio. You won't have also a high battery drain when you use a lot of the "cellular radio" ( gsm calls, constant negotiation with cells while driving or when you have a bad signal, etc). ( Even the MSM8960DT (Moto X's SoC) fixed many of these problems and its still an S4 Pro) )

BUT, you could have any other kind of new wakelocks.
[Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] luisrodg:
I hadn't actually thought of this but it sure raises question. We used to see rumors out of nowhere every single day from the tech sites. The invites for the 24th event goes out, supposedly with no hardware reveal, and none of the tech sites write about it? I mean, they were coming up with rumors left and right out of thin air, but here comes Google announcing an event and they all stay quiet? Not even questioning the supposed "no hardware reveal"? Yeah sounds fishy.

I'm sure they'd love the ads revenue by posting about it, which leads me to think they havent posted about it just because they cant...
[Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Seadra:
You deserved that reply, for using the F word out of nowhere.

Hopefully google sees this and releases the phone for india as well.

btw: http://www.androidsas.com/2013/10/rumor-nexus-5-and-android-44-are-not.html
[Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] jlmcr87:
"We have previously informed the world that LG might announce the Nexus 5 along with the company's first flexible display Smartphone G Flex"

One thing is nexus and other an lg smartphone
[Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] DowntownJeffBrown:
LG will have nothing to do with the announcement. It's Google's phone there baby and they will announce it. So I highly doubt Google will postpone its phone so that LG can release their phone with it at the same time

>^.^< Sent From Meow HTC One
[Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Seadra:
yeah I highly doubt that rumor too, may be it's just made up to get more hits on their website. source was anonymous guy from korea in their mail lol
[Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] ctowne:
Load of poop :sly:
[Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] brar.arsh:
Did you guys notice that no website has posted anything about Nexus 5 in last few days??

They must have signed NDA and not even disclosing the release date.

Oct 24th is surely not the date, but we might get the date on Oct 24th.
[Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] DowntownJeffBrown:
I think 24th is the event. Considering the embargo is supposed to be lifted on the 25th. Plus all the blogs went silent street the event was announced.

On another not this has been posted on about every page. I suggest reading at least the last 3 pages before posting anything cause chances are its already been posted.

>^.^< Sent From Meow HTC One
[Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] ctowne:
Speed embargo?
[Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] DowntownJeffBrown:
Shut up troll :cool:

>^.^< Sent From Meow HTC One
[Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] jugg1es:
That's rich coming from you :rolleyes:

"I'm living so far beyond my income that we may almost be said to be living apart."

- E E Cummings (1894-1962)
[Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] ctowne:
No I'm serious. What are you talking about?
[Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] DowntownJeffBrown:
Ditto :p

I'm a kitteh not a troll :(;)

>^.^< Sent From Meow HTC One

---------- Post added at 08:32 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:31 AM ----------

Just a typo bro

>^.^< Sent From Meow HTC One
[Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] jugg1es:
Hey, I'm the first to admit it. Unlike some :cool:

"I'm living so far beyond my income that we may almost be said to be living apart."

- E E Cummings (1894-1962)
[Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] DowntownJeffBrown:
Oh I've admitted many times. I'm a professional :sly:

>^.^< Sent From Meow HTC One
[Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] thesebastian:
It seems that Google is adding some posts to their "Nexus" Google+ account. (But only about the Nexus 7)
[Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] ctowne:
Oh ok, I just wasn't sure what a speed embargo was.
[Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] undercover:
Justice has been done! Such a hero...

Take context into account next time.

Oh, and think, then post.

Sent from N4 ?
[Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] brar.arsh:
Nexus 5 Retail Packing LEAKED!!!

Retail Packing..
[Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Seadra:
sexy lol :P source btw?
[Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] ctowne:
Haha nice
[Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] brar.arsh:
Source: https://plus.google.com/+DerekRoss/posts/7fvPLaykraF :cowboy:
[Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] dwd3885:
I agree with this theory. Here's what I think:

Geek.com (and other prominent tech sites; Verge, Engadget, etc.) were sent an invite to a Google Play event and were told to keep it a secret. They will see the new Nexus hardware and likely receive them under embargo until next week, say, Oct. 28. Geek accidentally posted the invite and tried to cover it up by reaching out to a 'source' saying no hardware..

This is why it's been quiet on the rumor front this week.

It's been VERY quiet right now and that usually means something big is coming soon.
[Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] parmend:
Saw this on twitter WAITING FOR THE NEXUS 5 FEELS LIKE THIS !!

Edit guess it won't play GIFS SORRY
[Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Primokorn:
I already saw this gif a few days ago but I don't remember when...
[Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] javskies:
last night i had a dream that i win a nexus 5 in a crane game. its obviously another clue from Google. crane game is two words that add up to 5 letters. oct 29th confirmed. when you take out repeating letters you get 7. 7pm will be the announcement time.

well played Google!
[Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] MaxRabbit:
Can confirm. Had same dream.
[Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] dankoman:
here ya go
[Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] wideasleep1:
Damn! I missed the boat once again! (like foreseeing LED lighting in the 80's). Before we had smart phones I recall the press calling our feature phones stuck in a design funk between a flip or candy bar. At the time I thought it would be cool to sell a candy bar style in a candy bar wrapper. Now that has come to pass...I was right..it is cool. :)
[Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] galaxys:
Just checking in WWW (Watching Waiting Wanting)!
[Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Bl4ze87:
Last year, at what time was avaible N4 all over the different play store?

Hope this year set a time and sell it!
[Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Whyzor:
Tomorrow's NY event is likely the announcement. Reasons:

+ A week to end of Oct., no other Google invite sent out.

+ Amazon reviewer's embargo comment points to this date, since removed.

+ Seems a big event for just Google Play, out of nowhere. Clearly people are more excited about KitKat & Nexus 5 more than Google Play. Also Google Play includes devices like Nexus 5.

+ KitKat twitter clues point to a countdown to this tomorrow also.

+ Last week's N5 accidental reveal on play store is exactly 1 week Thu.

- One person "close to Google" said "no hardware" & the rest of the blogosphere picked it up. Who is this person and why is his one word not checked on compared to all the other rumor evidence pointing to the contrary.
[Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] DowntownJeffBrown:
+1000 my brotha

>^.^< Sent From Meow HTC One
[Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Hilbe:
What time is the event tomorrow? Need to setup my Google Calendar reminder :)
[Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] brar.arsh:
7PM EST.. :rolleyes:

Now this was answered 1000th time, no more silly questions PLEASE!!! :cool:
[Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] El Daddy:
Actually 7pm EDT. :sly:
[Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] miczk:
Google won't launch strategic products when there will be midnight in Europe. It would be suicide.

Each Google event took place in USA in the morning. When it's 10 AM in New York, in Europe its 3PM.

If you expect something tomorrow, expect announcement of keynote.
[Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] intekmdma:
What time is it tomorrow in PST??

JOKING! JOKING!
[Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] brar.arsh:
Same.. :D Let them search for EST vsEDT.. :highfive:
[Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] ricecake2000:
They could announce it during the day and they have the actual event later on.

Announce

Let tech people play with it

Event

Concert (at least I thought I heard some band would be there)

*the band was my first clue that this wasn't a simple small event*

And maybe they weren't allowed to give the actual event time? Adds more of a surprise!
[Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] DowntownJeffBrown:
It would be suicide lol ok. So your saying that the blogs won't write about it and it won't be all over the net. It's gonna be a big party hence the band they have paid to come play. Parties are at night ;)

So your theory is that less people in Europe will buy the phone cause it's at night. Suicide :p

>^.^< Sent From Meow HTC One
[Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] One3OneKing:
Actually, the Galaxy Nexus was announced at a press conference at 10 pm eastern so I don't think Google cares too much, no offense. Point being, it's always going to be at a bad time somewhere.
[Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] drhill:
The Galaxy Nexus was revealed at 9pm EDT. I think it was held in Asia though.
[Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] eman3316@optonline.net:
I feel like the Galaxy Nexus event was at night. Maybe it was held in China, don't remember. I just remember laying in bed at night watching it.

What I do not get is why Google would want to keep the announcement a secret. How would that be any advantage to them. Wouldn't you want people to be talking about it and have the excitement build up to the event. Wouldn't you want the press everywhere talking about it right now.

I do find it rather suspicious though that no press is reporting about the event tomorrow. I would at least expect to see some articles saying , hey wonder what the heck this thing can about. If it is related to Google and Android in any way they would have some articles about it. Seems very strange on the presses sides and even more strange on Googles side if it is a non-announced reveal.
[Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] tlopez1973:
Well tomorrow's event probably is going to announcement it let's keep our fingers crossed
[Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] cipsaz:
Well, the hype is quickly dying, and if Google doesn't announce tomorrow, its going to be a fail event.
[Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] intekmdma:
I can't remember how many times I heard that for the N4 and it was still sold out
[Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] fracama87:
Only to me not seems pretty official?

Inviato dal mio Galaxy Nexus utilizzando Tapatalk
[Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Paradoxxx:
Yeah, the hype is going down, and android addicts are getting enoyed by all of this. Announce the damn thing, and let us buy it already.
[Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] eman3316@optonline.net:
And this is based on what evidence and study?

---------- Post added at 01:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:28 PM ----------

Do you have a link?
[Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] tlopez1973:
That's why we need to cross our fingers:thumbup:

---------- Post added at 06:30 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:28 PM ----------

No
[Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] DowntownJeffBrown:
I think the press knows but were told to be quiet. There has literally been no n5 talk since the event was announced. Prior to that the blogs were nonstop talking about the n5. Why Google did this I dunno

>^.^< Sent From Meow HTC One
[Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] eman3316@optonline.net:
Yeah, that is the confusing part. Wouldn't you want everyone talking about a device you are ready to launch. I know some people like to try an opposite approach to the norm but in this case how would that be a positive thing?

I can't imagine anyone saying, WOW! that is a great idea. Let's keep the announcement a secret to the public. Isn't it the public that you want hyped up since we are the ones buying the device. The press won't be buying the device so what good is it if only they know about it. lol