yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] mrjinglesusa:
Just start testing them! Worse thing that happens is you have to reboot to your Stock "Safe" slot.

I'm about to flash Bonestock 1.1.4, will report back...
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] killajoe:
[MENTION=4243514]Hashcode[/MENTION] How do we Wipe the rom slot since? Keeps saying failed and i only have enough memory to use one slot
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] portscan:
Stock recovery flashed fine in ODIN. Back to stock. If anyone needs the stock ME7 I have it dropboxed. I will now upload the remove ongoing wifi notification .zip for you Hash, so you can sniff it.

Here is factory ME7 for anyone who soft bricks..

https://www.dropbox.com/s/urtc9clkl1qf707/I545VRUAME7_I545VZWAME7_I545VRUAME7_HOME.zip

---------- Post added at 07:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:34 PM ----------

Here is a link for the .zip that bricked me [MENTION=4243514]Hashcode[/MENTION]

https://www.dropbox.com/s/qj3jd8wfdbt5bay/S4_Remove_Ongoing_Wifi_notification.zip

DO NOT FLASH THIS FILE UNLESS YOU WANT TO BRICK.

Maybe Hash can get something working with it.

I am back booted. Will restore root with Voodoo now. It kept everything in tact on the recovery image flash. Data and all. Sweet!
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] jova33:
Awesome job man.... that's what I'll say when I see it in action
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] eltonsl:
Like I always say,nothing is unbreakable. If somebody took the time to lock it, there has to be a way to undo it.

They are not the only smart ones. Thanks to all developers here for their brains.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] Obsidian...:
Here's a bit of an update for you guys. This was Friday night. He finished up the Omap updates and started working on Qcomm. So last night he started working on the S4 build. I'll try to keep you guys updated as much as possible. I don't have a S4 but I'll keep in touch

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Xparent Skyblue Tapatalk 2
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] purple_zergling:
Wow I just switched to a Verizon GS4 from a DROID bionic so the familiarity will be nice. What an amazing developer and community!
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] Captain Crypto:
Please clarify something for me. I'm on VZW and I bought the Developer Edition directly from Samsung. Given your comment, what would have been the difference of a VZW Dev vs. my Samsung Dev phone? Legit question, seriously wondering.

Sent from my SCH-I545 DEV
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] Z.Z.Z.:
I don't think CM 10.2 will work with SS. I might be wrong, feel free to correct me.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] Southern_mind:
I think what he meant is being able to buy it at a discount price.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] Captain Crypto:
Now THAT I understand. Good gravy, the phone is crazy expensive.

Sent from my SCH-I545 DEV
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] baling:
So awesome!
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] JaeKay:
I'm pretty sure there is a developer s4 for Verizon...
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] hexitnow:
I think he means he wishes verizon sold the dev model.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] Jayrod76:
...and didn't insist on locking everything down that they do carry!

Sent from my Platyraptor extreme ultra maxxxx 4gLTE/GSM/ABC/123 Nick Knack Pattywack Ermegherd GED, MD,RNA,DNA,YMCA Edition S4! Via the 4th dimension....NOW RUNNING ECLIPSE
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] stricklerjosh:
Might be a stupid question, but for those of us who are jot even rooted yet, should we go ahead and root? I figured since I couldn't flash any Roms I would just stay stock, until reading this great news.

Thanks to all who are working on this.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] joshuadjohnson22:
Yes, you need root
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] Anthony825:
I would say go ahead. I did, mainly because there's so much you can do with just a root to hold you over until we can flash.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] portscan:
Hash has always taken care of us over at DroidRzr.com with SS. Was a godsend on my Razr Maxx. I will wait patiently while he makes this work for the S4. Can't wait to get it on and working. As always, we appreciate your work, Hash.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] hexitnow:
Going to have to root before installing SS so might as well get one step out of the way. That much less youll have to do when its released.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] lukegvoigt:
Is anyone taking up donations?

Is Hash or anyone taking up any donations? I"d like to help out, even if it is as little as donating a bit to buy himself a meal or something!
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] Obsidian...:
He doesn't want me to start collecting donations until after he gets at least a beta version running. After that I'll start a donation to either pay back sound-mind for the phone he loaned Hash or to buy Hash a S4 after sending sound-mind's back. He has a donation link for himself if you'd like to just say thanks in general. Below

Hashcode Donation Link

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Xparent Skyblue Tapatalk 2
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] trook:
Ya but come on dude, everyone knows the first rule of fight club is you don't ask for eta's
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] decaturbob:
thanks, Im downloading aroma right now.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] killajoe:
why does say all that in the Qouted text? is this the stock system image to flash in odin if we softbrick? also can i get a link to odin?
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] thcbytes:
Clarification Hashcode. Can we flash zips in the SS recovery to the Stock ROM? I would like to flash the Google Wallet mod if possible. Thanks
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] meowenf:
Stupid question... But whats aroma?... Do I need it in order to use GPE ROM, if so where can I get it?
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] portscan:
Top link is the ME7 file. Download that and extract the .tar file from the .zip. Do not download or flash the second link that is directed to Hash and flash it though.

I can link a link to odin if you need..

Once you're in Odin, just load the .tar file in the pda section of Odin. You need to be in Odin mode on your S4 as well. Once it loads in Odin click start, sit back and enjoy the show.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] Inigo Montoya:
Did you try flashing this after you got Safestrap up and running or had you already flashed this zip and once you installed Safestrap you soft bricked?
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] portscan:
Here is Odin for you.

https://www.dropbox.com/sm/create/Android/Samsung/Odin/Odin307.zip
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] meowenf:
Nevermind I got it.... Sorry I'm feeling a little slow today...
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] anthony92170:
Ok 2 questions can we now flash mod zips for me7? And im confused here I saw a post saying we can flash any me7 stock rom but then I see only gpe rom can be used.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] mrjinglesusa:
Report on flashing Bonestock 1.1.4 using Safestrap B08:

1) ROM slot creation worked perfectly.

2) Bonestock Aroma installer worked

3) Flashing Bonestock 1.1.4 to Rom Slot 1 worked

4) Reboot to Bonestock 1.1.4.......uh oh.

Got a black screen. Completely non-responsive. Have to pull battery to continue.

So, it looks like Bonestock 1.1.4 is a no go.

Can confirm that the Google Play rom installs and boots but Wi-Fi does not work (won't turn on).
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] decaturbob:
no problem
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] portscan:
Used SS to flash the file. I am thinking that file was before ME7, trying to find out now. It needs a recovery to flash and SS flashed it fine, but It may not be designed for ME7.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] michaelg117:
We really need a fix for this WiFi problem :o

Sent from Navi
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] saltytaco:
May I ask what does it mean than? Cause I don't have a clue 0.o
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] mrjinglesusa:
Yeah, everything else seems great other than that minor problem. :)

Not sure why Bonestock 1.1.4 won't boot. That's a pretty much stock ROM with stock kernel.

Oh well, back to stock for now until we can get some fully compatible ROMs.

GREAT PROGRESS HASHCODE!!!!!
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] killajoe:
thank you
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] wtherrell:
You need the kernel modules flashed on top for the wifi to work, I think. Hashcode mentioned it in a previous post.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] meowenf:
Pretty sure its just a modification built into the rom as well as part of the name... I could be wrong but I think thats it :p
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] :
If you read through the thread, apparently it's an ongoing problem.

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=2343355
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] anthony92170:
Try this it is fot me7 I am using it now

http://db.tt/PoAFBJ8r

It is wifi remove
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] killajoe:
I started a Thread For Working Roms, I Tried the GPE for verizon and everything worked except WIFI and the GPS was off by about a half a mile
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] michaelg117:
So, how does one go about doing this?

Sent from Navi
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] portscan:
This will flash and remove ongoing WIFI notification? Can be used with SS?
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] killajoe:
Where Can I FInd the Wifi fix?
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] cavemanb:
How about the name of the tread and or link please?
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] killajoe:
http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?p=45688831#post45688831
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] Jayrod76:
Woah...people. He just released this and even stated that he was going to create a zip for the kernels to be flashed! In the post for the POC of Dubsys build he even stated that he couldn't check everything because he didn't have a Sim. Let's let the dust settle a little before clogging up the thread.

Sent from my Platyraptor extreme ultra maxxxx 4gLTE/GSM/ABC/123 Nick Knack Pattywack Ermegherd GED, MD,RNA,DNA,YMCA Edition S4! Via the 4th dimension....NOW RUNNING ECLIPSE
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] killajoe:
About to try out HyperDrive.. Check My Thread for an Update - http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?p=45688831#post45688831
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] portscan:
Thanks!! Flashed like a charm with SS. I guess I had the file before ME7.. No harm, Odin back was successful, and now I have the ongoing notification removed. Thanks again, brother!
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] wtherrell:
Hashcode was going to post them. I'll try to go find the post & see for sure if did.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] mrjinglesusa:
I don't believe that's true for ME7 ROMs and I don't see anything about this having to do with Wi-fi unless this isn't the post you are referring to.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] anthony92170:
I think the problem with some me7 roms not working is most if not all are using a mdk kernel and it has to be me7 kernel.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] mrjinglesusa:
Again, that was for MDK ROMs, not ME7 ROMs. He said ME7 ROMs should work out of the box and if not to let him know. This most recent build is FOR TESTING ROMs and that is what we are doing. How is that "clogging up the thread"?
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] Inigo Montoya:
Before everyone goes hog wild on this can someone please point me to the proper instructions to Odin back to stock ME7 if something goes wrong?

Just want to make sure I'm ready in case I have any issues.

Thanks.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] wtherrell:
In post 744 he says that mdk rom builds will need the modules flashed on top & will provide a .zip later. ME7 builds shouldn't need it.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] michaelg117:
I wonder what the problems are then :o I tweeted to him. Let you guys know if I get anything on that end.

Sent from Navi
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] Lou 270:
So is there or is there no a rom that will work if so can we get something going with rooms that will work with SS
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] portscan:
Download the stock image I put on dropbox in a few posts back. Extract the .tar file from the .zip file (it's the only file in the zip.) I also added a link for Odin. You will need both.

Put your phone in Odin mode.

Get to Odin by doing the following;

Make sure your device is completely off

Key(s): Volume Down

While holding this key down simultaneously press the Power button until you see a disclaimer on the screen

Then let go of both buttons and press Volume Up to accept the disclaimer

Once the green robot is visible on the screen this indicates that handset is in now ODIN/Download mode

In the Odin program, tick the button beside PDA, then click PDA and select the .tar file that you extracted from the .zip file that was downloaded from dropbox. Once the file loads in Odin, click start. Odin will do the rest and you will see Andy with a progress indicator on the bottom of your screen. Wait until it finishes. You should be able to boot back up fully, with all apps and data the way they were before the brick.

I should add that your phone needs to be connected via USB to your PC that's running Odin.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] dooperman:
Flash image gui

Now I know this is probably a stupid question and I don't know anything about coding, but i used flash image gui on my evo 4glte to flash kernels cause I had S-on. was wondering if something similar would work for us?
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] wtherrell:
We had similar problem with wifi not turning on when first getting some roms & kernels to work on the Dev Edition. Flashing the modules from stock rom got the wifi working. I'm sure it will be resolved shortly. I am so happy for you ME7 peeps ! Your world is becoming bright and new.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] lazer9:
Report on flashing Hyperdrive 9.1 using Safestrap B08:

1) ROM slot creation worked perfectly.

2) Hyperdrive Aroma installer worked

3) Flashing Hyperdrive to Rom Slot 1 worked

4) Reboot to Hyperdrive.......uh oh.

Got a black screen. Completely non-responsive. Have to pull battery to continue.

So, it looks like Hyperdrive is a no go as it stands now.

PS: Did this with the stock kernel option via Aroma during install. Pretty sure it's ME7 kernel and radio, however I could be mistaken.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] thatbigmoose:
[MENTION=4243514]Hashcode[/MENTION]

On the AT&T S4 Active safestrap fails to mount "/". Going into mounts -> internal storage also fails. Can't find the partition mapped to "/" or something similar, and because of that can't really do much haha. Other than that perfect, and in case you're not familiar S4 Active is the same exact chip set as S4 but with an LCD screen and 8MP camera.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] wtherrell:
Yes, it's ME7 build but radios not included.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] jpi.islas:
I have the same problem with WiFi not working.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] sea1206:
safestrap apk??

looking but cant find the apk was it taken now to keep noobs like me from messing up
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] Inigo Montoya:
Thank you!!!!!
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] my-blue-snog-box:
I found the same thing on mine. Because of this, I haven't been able to create a ROM slot.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] killajoe:
SAME HERE;)
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] anthony92170:
Any stock rom is made with mdk kernel. I have 2 phones 1 with mdk and I cant use me7 kernel I get no wifi. The only rom is gonna be the GPE.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] killajoe:
look at the first post in the thread. It should be there
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] portscan:
No prob..
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] anthony92170:
Go to post 744 use the mirror
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] jamskies:
Guys, I am completely new...never before did a install of a custom rom and I'm doing my best here to understand what is going on...but my question is after creating the rom slot....how do i put this zip file with the rom into the correct directory for the system to load it?
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] portscan:
Needs to be on your external sd card. Activate the rom slot, then choose the rom from the sd card and flash.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] Lou 270:
What roms are working???????
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] dooperman:
link not working

link not working.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] portscan:
Dropbox canned my links for Odin and Stock image. They said my bandwith usage had been reached. Guess you guys were pounding it lol. It's all good. Uploading to a new site now with no restrictions. Will post new links shortly. The new links will auto delete in 7 Days, so make sure you get 'em.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] mrjinglesusa:
None fully yet. The Google Edition Rom will boot but there is no Wi-Fi.

Most "stock" ROMs, e.g., Hyperdrive and Bonestock, appear to actually be using the MDK kernel and thus won't boot.

Hash said he was going to put together a flashable ME7 kernel file that could be flashed over any ROM install. Once we have that, these ROMs should work. :fingers crossed:

So, right now all we can confirm is that ROMs can be flashed using the latest Safestrap beta. No ROMs appear 100% functional yet.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] portscan:
50% uploaded. My Fiber connection is blinking like a champ!
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] Lou 270:
Let me get this straight we would flash the rom and this zip all at once and boom it's good to go so very much like flashing a rom and adding gapps to it
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] portscan:
Clarify a bit?
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] brycekerr:
http://m.androidcentral.com/obama-administration-petitions-fcc-require-carriers-unlock-phones

Hmm...awesome

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Xparent BlueTapatalk 2
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] michaelg117:
Not sure what zip your talking about, but hashcode hasn't supplied the zip for ME7 kernel yet.

Sent from Navi
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] mrjinglesusa:
That's my understanding. He said the kernel zip would be able to be flashed over the ROM. So, flash ROM, flash kernel zip, PROFIT. :fingers-crossed:
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] jpi.islas:
Am I doing something wrong... Or is the recovery button not working for boring into safe strap after installing a custom ROM?
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] portscan:
New link for ME7 stock image and Odin. Both files in the same link. Link will expire in 7 days. Get it while it's good!

http://www.fileconvoy.com/dfl.php?id=g7b74984bf66e07ac999373394233cd60273455291
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] mrjinglesusa:
We know that. We are discussing the possibility that the kernel zip file Hash said he would provide will fix a lot of the issues we are having and make most ROMs functional in Safestrap.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] Lou 270:
I apologize I barely understand myself sometimes but I saw in one of hashcodes post something about creating a zip to make the roms work I was just wondering if we would flash it with the rom or is someone going to go in and add something so we could just flash regular
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] mrjinglesusa:
It's something you flash over the ROM. Flash ROM, flash ME7 kernel file, reboot.

EDIT: But like michaelg117 said, Hash hasn't provided it yet.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] portscan:
Now that SS is working, we will be able to flash roms built from the current kernel that devs will be throwing out with the quickness. Also applies if Hash creates the .zip to work over the older kernel roms.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] jpi.islas:
Yea, I'm an idiot...I was trying to hit the button on the screen instead of the hardware button :-\
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] bfmetcalf:
Don't worry, I was doing the same thing for a while. :)
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] my-blue-snog-box:
[MENTION=4434032]thatbigmoose[/MENTION] I ran into the same issue with ATT B08 here: http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?p=45690629
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] osukef:
HELP!

I'm very familiar with with SS, coming from the Droid RAZR side of things. I was very excited to see that we could take the first steps toward real ROM-ing....but now I have a problem.

Installed the GPE ROM via the links posted here, everything went fine. Now when I try to boot into stock, I get a soft reboot after the lock screen loads, then it stops on the white Verizon screen. I downloaded Odin and the ME7 tar from the links posted earlier, ODIN gave me no issues, but I'm still getting the soft bootloop issue...

Any suggestions??
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] Roland_D:
Question... I want to install jelly beans that flashes thru aroma and gives you the choice to install 3 different kernels... 1 is stock optimized.. But that makes me think it's not stock... So would that brick the phone?

Sent from my SGS4
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] Andrew149:
Try clearing data on stock rom
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] osukef:
Can you advise on how to do that? Now that I did the steps in ODIN, I no longer get the SS splash screen on boot either :\

Thank you so much!
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] thestinkinggenius:
Nope, won't brick the phone but it won't boot up just goes to black screen and then a battery pull is necessary (atleast this is what happened when I tried) and then had to reinstall using stock kernel.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] Andrew149:
Just get into the stock samsung recovery, I think you hold phone down the wake botton on the bottom of the phone and power button all at the same time and once your in recovery you should see wipe data.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] Roland_D:
What do you mean reinstall using stock kernel?

Sent from my SGS4
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] thestinkinggenius:
My bad I was confused with Hyperdrive ROM
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] NoGimmicksNeeded:
Thanks Hash, up and running with "Hyper Drive"... Crack flashers Unite once again... LOL
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] Kanged:
So can somone please give me the link to safestrap and the install instructions.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] michaelg117:
Does your Wi-Fi work?

Sent from Navi
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] osukef:
That seems to have fixed the problem! Thank you so much!!
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] hollovoid:
Worked nice with the GPE rom, I lost data after reboot though, and of course no wifi, but thats known, I cant wait to see what happens with this phone within a week. Very excited!
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] meowenf:
So once hash releases the ME7 zip that will remedy all MDK ROMs we will be able to use ROMs like CM10 right? That would be wonderful :)
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] jamskies:
Hello guys!

I am a new guy to this all and I understand (I think I do anyways) what safestrap does. I was able to the Google Experience ROM on my device and it worked great (minus wifi), but I worry about the space on my device.... there are two things I think that could be helpful and I was hoping if someone could tell me if either of these are possible....

1. Creating the partition on the external SD instead of the internal

2. Shrinking the Stock Partition (don't think that's really possible)

The reason being so that there are more spaces for app usage and download space and the like. Is it possible to get this down the road or is that asking too much?

Thanks
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] hollovoid:
I think it might take a bit more tweaking to get roms like that working as they are closer to AOSP which needs its own kernel usually, but im sure eventually, maybe sooner than you think, that may happen.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] Andrew149:
cm10 and aosp rom's will not work unless were able to change the kernel.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] meowenf:
It would be awesome. I understand what your saying but I'm pretty sure there is a MDK version out. Of course I could be wrong.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] NoGimmicksNeeded:
No WiFi has this one either, but I'll see if I can monkey around and see if I can fix it, after rebooting it a few times to see, still holds strong... Only thing is not working for me is just the WiFi... Other than that, this ROM is filled with butter...
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] mochamoo:
Roms may need to be modified to work fully with ss. Can anyone clarify?

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?p=45600894
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] hollovoid:
Those who had loki could load the kernel necessary for this. Hence why those who were lucky enough to be on MDK could run it. Have faith though, the mere existence of safe strap will pull a ton of exciting options for this device. Im glad I waited it out.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] meowenf:
I am too. No WiFi sucks but AOSP on this beast of a phone is a beautiful sight :)
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] hollovoid:
Seriously, this phone runs very nice with the baggage, without it is going to be extreme. GPE runs very smooth for sure.