yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[AT&T Samsung Galaxy S 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshootin] xerythul:
emmc is meant to refer to the micro sd card in the phone. I myself am waiting for someone to come along and make a stripped down, nothing but the bare essentials, least features, most battery life rom. All of the usual performance tweaks and enhancements are always a welcome addition, and I will probably end up adding xposed installer and wanam at a minimum. Obviously I can turn everything off that I don't want running, but I want all the samsung stuff possible to disappear, no at&t bloatware, nothing but what the phone needs to run. Let _me_ add the rest of the stuff tbh. Maybe there is one out there and I haven't looked enough but it seems like no one is terribly interested in having a stripped down, "raw" if you will sgs4. Someone prove me wrong? Wish I had the time or knowledge to build by own rom, self teaching is slow going, but until then I post and cry! :P
[AT&T Samsung Galaxy S 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshootin] Prince21:
Hi all, I tried reading as much as I could. Dont know if this has been covered. I have used ss for a while. When I wan to delere a rom I have been deleting the slot instead of wiping it and installing new one. Now I am in stock with 20 Gb still on my phone hard drive, but when I install small app it says it says 18 mb remaining and all big apps failt to install. Seems like I im running out of space. Does anyone know how to fix this
[AT&T Samsung Galaxy S 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshootin] peacefulcard:
Stuck on AT&T logo

Hi,

I am stuck on AT&T logo on my Galaxy S4. I had previously installed safetrap recovery and a ROM on it, but I am always using Stock ROM. I forgot about safetrap last night when I had to encrypt and use my device for work related stuffs. So, I factory reset my phone, I encrypt the device and after that I am stuck on AT&T logo. Safetrap still shows up during booting but I can't create any ROM slot, I believe it is because of encryption. Can someone please help me?
[AT&T Samsung Galaxy S 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshootin] RickHenry:
I think you are correct. Read warning #1 (in big red letters) in the SafeStrap OP.

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?p=45693712&highlight=encryption#post45693712

If you can't read the whole thread, always, always, always read the OP and posts by the OP following it.

Hope this helps. I have read that thread and this Q&A thread, and don't recall anyone with a work around other than un-encrypting.
[AT&T Samsung Galaxy S 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshootin] peacefulcard:
Thank you!! I read that warning before and my fault was to assume factory reset will delete safestrap and I can encrypt again. Do you know if there is a way to decrypt in the condition I am right now? While in bootloop condition? Your help is much appreciated.
[AT&T Samsung Galaxy S 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshootin] RickHenry:
I never encrypt, so can't help you there. Maybe someone else has experience and can help. I highly doubt you can decrypt without booting up. If you can't get into SS to activate and boot the stock ROM, you may have to take it to Best Buy and let the Samsung Experience counter reset it. Good luck.
[AT&T Samsung Galaxy S 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshootin] gage0727:
hello, I have been reading everything I can about this app. correct me if im wrong but once rooted you install this and it lets you make areas that you can flash custom roms to them and all that. That way you do not mess with the stock rom on the phone. This software dose not provide any safety from bricking your phone in any other way, if i read right. I am wanting to root my phone again but i ran into issues the last time, by whipping the internal memory fully and having to use odin to restore my phone. Before i could re root my phone it took the up date. I do not really want custom rom's at least not at this point in time. I would like a way to restore my phone if an issue arises that way i do not have a paper weight. Just wanting to make sure i am correct is why i ask this.
[AT&T Samsung Galaxy S 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshootin] peacefulcard:
Thanks for trying to help. I was planning to go to best buy but I tried clearing cache from stock recovery and somehow I got out of bootloop :). Thanks.
[AT&T Samsung Galaxy S 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshootin] ult1m8:
GPE 4.2.2 rom installed. Is asking me to do a 4.3 OTA update

Hey guys,

I have a GPE 4.2.2 rom installed that I got from http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=2341794. I've had it for about a week now. The rom has worked great. Now in my notifications I have a message indicating a system update. Clicking on it, it says:

Android 4.3 System Update

This software update will upgrade your Galaxy S4 Google Play edition to Android 4.3 Jelly Bean, which improves.... blah blah blah.

My question is, do I update? I would guess NO, since SS doesn't support 4.3 roms yet. But I wasn't sure if there was a difference if from flashing a 4.3 rom and updating via an OTA update.
[AT&T Samsung Galaxy S 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshootin] RickHenry:
I would NOT take the chance until Hashcode has a 4.3 version of SS. But that's just me and my aversion to having s $600 paperweight. If you do choose to try it, please come back and let us know how it goes.

---------- Post added at 06:08 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:05 AM ----------

Good info for others that find themselves in this situation. Thanks for sharing.
[AT&T Samsung Galaxy S 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshootin] ult1m8:
My stock rom still has my untouched Samsung MF3-updated install.

GPE 4.2.2 is installed in a rom-slot, so I'm assuming OTA updating GPE would only update the GPE rom and *not* attempt to update my stock rom. Perhaps I'm wrong in that assumption?
[AT&T Samsung Galaxy S 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshootin] RickHenry:
Search this thread and the SS dev thread for others experience flashing 4.3.
[AT&T Samsung Galaxy S 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshootin] FourPointedFreak:
Have you found a fix for this issue? I am having this issue and cannot find any help.

I am running the GPE Rom 4.2.2 on my AT&T MF3 S4 running Safestrap (just confirming I know where I am posting)
[AT&T Samsung Galaxy S 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshootin] ctleng76:
Unfortunately there is no easy fix for this issue. USB functionality will only work with the GPE kernel, and when using safestrap, the MF3 kernel is shared between your stock ROM and your SS ROM. Unless someone finds a way to add this using the kernel modules, it looks like this will continue to be the tradeoff if you want to use the GPE ROM.
[AT&T Samsung Galaxy S 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshootin] Alucion:
I used USB Mass Storage Enabler to connect to it. It lets me see my external SD card as a drive. Mine charges via USB and I can connect with adb with no issues.

I'm using [ROM][DEODEX/ODEX]][ROOTED] Google Edition 4.2.2 - v1.3 with safestrap on MF3.
[AT&T Samsung Galaxy S 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshootin] ctleng76:
Interesting. I tried this as well, but I had no success. It would show a drive letter, but I could never access it.
[AT&T Samsung Galaxy S 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshootin] padawan_lp:
Safestrap no working for me

Hello,

I install Safestrap for the first time on my MF3 SGS4 following the steps I found on one of the post of this thread.

First I installed the Google Play Edition 4.2.2 slim version rom and it never loaded, the phone kept rebooting all the time.

Then I installed Google Play Edition 4.2.2 rom (not slim version) and wen I reboted, after the Safestrap screen it shows the word GOOGLE and an animation with a circle with colors and it stays there, I waited about 10 minutes and nothing, and I force it to turn off.

I've read that it could take a few minutes to boot the first time, but 10 minutes seemed like a lot.

Can anyone give any advice?
[AT&T Samsung Galaxy S 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshootin] ctleng76:
It sounds like you may have missed a few important steps. After installing safestrap, did you first create a ROM slot and install GPE to that slot? If you tried to install the ROM directly over the stock ROM then you will have problems.
[AT&T Samsung Galaxy S 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshootin] padawan_lp:
I read the big red warning, so I was careful. I created the Rom Slot and installed the Rom on that slot. I did maximized all the assigned storage for that slot. I only created one.

The stock rom is working fine, that's what I'm using know. I do regret doing the factory reset before rooting and installing Safestrap.
[AT&T Samsung Galaxy S 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshootin] Galaxy*$4:
i guess the international phone numbers on the vzw roms shouldnt bother me i just cant call from the recent screen
[AT&T Samsung Galaxy S 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshootin] Conmore:
I'm having an issue with getting SS to install. I have root permissions, I read through the installation thread, looked up my problem online, and I can't find anything on it. My issue is when I open the APK, I can't even use the 'install' button, and I'm not prompted for anything, I'm on MF3 SGH-I337 AT&T.
[AT&T Samsung Galaxy S 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshootin] my-blue-snog-box:
Does anyone have a link for the 4.2.2 Echoe ROM? I can't find it anywhere.
[AT&T Samsung Galaxy S 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshootin] jt1998:
Thats happened to me also but not with safestrap. Usually a bad download. Try from different link or source. Please post back.
[AT&T Samsung Galaxy S 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshootin] Moostafa29:
I've had that issue before. It was because I installed the ROM, then flashed something that wasn't compatible with the ROM. Did you flash anything additional when installing, besides the mf3 modem fix?
[AT&T Samsung Galaxy S 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshootin] FourPointedFreak:
That makes sense - no one had explained that to me.

I tried USB Mass STorage Enabler (Assumed you meant https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.mohammadag.samsungusbmassstorageenabler&hl=en)

And I had no problems getting it to connect after that.

Thanks for the suggestion.
[AT&T Samsung Galaxy S 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshootin] Conmore:
That fixed it.
[AT&T Samsung Galaxy S 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshootin] sam.balia1012:
question

does anyone know which GSM galaxy S4 models have unlocked bootloader

[ sgs4 + run on GSM + unlocked bootloader]

thanks
[AT&T Samsung Galaxy S 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshootin] Supreme Dynamite:
I believe it's the GT-I9500 and the GT-I9505

If I helped thank me (:
[AT&T Samsung Galaxy S 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshootin] jd1639:
The 9505 is lte
[AT&T Samsung Galaxy S 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshootin] Supreme Dynamite:
Your right! My mistake.

If I helped thank me (:
[AT&T Samsung Galaxy S 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshootin] Galaxy*$4:
thank you very much for the apn settings also, my problem i wonder what made it change the way calls show up on my screen using a vzw roms instead of international ## it shows up as the correct number now.
[AT&T Samsung Galaxy S 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshootin] te_quiero_forever_girl:
I'm on Shostock and Wifi connection would not stay connected. It would get disconnected, then get reconnected. Any idea guys ? Thanks
[AT&T Samsung Galaxy S 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshootin] jh64dsb877r:
Make sure you flashed the kernel modules for MF3. Also, test it on multiple Wifi signals, just to be sure it's not a unique error with one particular signal.
[AT&T Samsung Galaxy S 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshootin] te_quiero_forever_girl:
Thanks for the reply. I flashed the Module (otherwise there would be no way to connect to Wifi at all). And I tested it with the wifi at school, work,...All seems to have this issue. It would stay connected for say 2-3 mins, then randomly disconnect, then reconnect 5-15 seconds later.
[AT&T Samsung Galaxy S 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshootin] thepktrckt:
How big of a Data partition do you create? I think that is the issue, I haven't been able to find a way to increase it beyond 4GB.
[AT&T Samsung Galaxy S 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshootin] jball:
So I'll tell you this I've tried

Virgin ROM

Darthstalker

Omega ROM

MDOB ROM

GOLDENEYE

And so far Google Edition 4.2.2 runs the best out of them all.yes this is my opinion
[AT&T Samsung Galaxy S 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshootin] jt1998:
I've only run a few and I agree gpe IMHO
[AT&T Samsung Galaxy S 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshootin] ptclik85:
In order for you to remove safestrap, use terminal emulator and type the command that is located in the OP of the Safestrap forum. After you have successfully uninstalled safestrap, go to superuser, go under settings and click on unroot. Then you are good to go.

P.S. Make sure you are on stock before you do any of the following above.
[AT&T Samsung Galaxy S 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshootin] ttdag:
Bootloops after flashing deadly venom

I'm sorry for being a noob, but I've been searching for hours and haven't found an answer yet. Everytime after I flash Deadly Venom on rom slot 1 in ss, and then the MF3 module after, I get no success. It installs successfully and all but after I reboot, it gets on the ss splashscreen, i continue, but it sits on a black screen for about a minute, vibrates and reboots on its own. It continues this unless i go into ss and go back to stock. I have no clue what i did wrong because i followed all the steps and my rom slot 1 is 2.3gb. Someone please help.

EDIT: It also goes into android system recovery and says "#MANUAL MODE#

--Applying Multi-CSC...

Applied the CSC-code: ATT

Successfully applied multi-CSC."
[AT&T Samsung Galaxy S 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshootin] Psych0t1c20:
Bump. Anyone? Or did you find it?
[AT&T Samsung Galaxy S 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshootin] my-blue-snog-box:
No, I didn't find it. Frankly, I kinda gave up...
[AT&T Samsung Galaxy S 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshootin] gj23:
http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=2372286 Here ya go, make sure you download the correct one. I see the first Rom is 4.3.(v6) There is also a website; http://echoerom.com, but I didnt check it out to see if they have older version dowloads

Edit: I installed EchoeSLIM V3 and its running without any issues
[AT&T Samsung Galaxy S 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshootin] ttdag:
Bump. Someone help please, I have been trying for hours
[AT&T Samsung Galaxy S 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshootin] scott14719:
I suggest you use the MF3 Odin file available to ODIN back to stock MF3. Then, don't do ANYTHING to your phone until you have taken enough time (no matter how long it takes) for you to read and learn about what you should or should not do. After reading and learning (even if it takes you a month) then try to re-install safestrap and try again. Maybe by then something else will be available, but you will still need to read and learn about it before you try it. Good luck.

Reading (all) of the "pinned" threads in the "General" and "Q&A" sections will give you a good start.
[AT&T Samsung Galaxy S 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshootin] jt1998:
You're downloading the 4.2 version of deadly venom right? I had problems with his 2nd update so make sure you try version 8.1 and the 4.2 one not 4.3. I also recommend making sure its on your internal storage not ext SD card when flashing as for some reasons certain roms wouldn't flash right for me when on my ext SD card. Good luck.
[AT&T Samsung Galaxy S 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshootin] ttdag:
I'm sorry, but yes I am downloading the 4.2 version and I have tried both versions and both of them on both external and internal SD card for flashing.
[AT&T Samsung Galaxy S 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshootin] jt1998:
Ugh. Don't know what else to suggest. Sorry.
[AT&T Samsung Galaxy S 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshootin] ttdag:
Thanks for the info but actually I have used ss before because I had a droid 4 in the past. I also don't see why i would have to ODIN back to MF3 if im in rom slot 1 of ss? Kinda confused here...
[AT&T Samsung Galaxy S 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshootin] gj23:
Have you been able to get other ROMS to flash through SS?
[AT&T Samsung Galaxy S 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshootin] ttdag:
Yes, I just downloaded the Google play edition rom 4.2.2 version from http://www.androidfilehost.com/?fid=23125694133305782 and it worked fine. I dont know what's wrong, i really wanted to try deadly venom :(
[AT&T Samsung Galaxy S 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshootin] jt1998:
I dont know what to say. When venom was upgraded to 8.2, I couldn't install it but I had no problems with 8.1. I personally like GPE 4.2.2 but both are good.
[AT&T Samsung Galaxy S 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshootin] FalseAim:
Bit of a noob here, so I've been having trouble getting my first ROM to work. I tried to get GoldenEye, but it didn't work. I made a new ROM slot and didn't change any of the default sizes. Then I activated that ROM slot, wiped the data, and installed the GoldenEye zip file from the /sdcard folder. The I rebooted, and installed the MF3 modules on the same ROM slot. Then I rebooted again, but all I got was a black screen. I was able to get back into SafeStrap and the stock ROM still works, but what did I do wrong installing GoldenEye?

I deleted and then remade the ROM slot, and tried installing the two files again without rebooting in between, but it didn't change anything. But I did notice the following when trying to install the MF3 modules:

Installing 'sdcard/jflteatt-MF3-modules.zip'..

Checking for MD5 file...

Skipping MD5 check: no MD5 file found.

Updating partition details...

E:Unable to mount internal storage.

SafeStrap says "Successful," but this text doesn't sound like it. I'm not sure what to try next. Does anyone have any ideas?
[AT&T Samsung Galaxy S 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshootin] FalseAim:
Just to provide more information, after checking the terminal multiple times while exploring SafeStrap, I noticed a lot of the following message:

E:Unable to mount '/external_sd"

There isn't an external sd in my phone currently, and this message is appearing a lot. And a bunch in a row, too. Not sure if this can clarify my issue, but I would stil like some help fixing this. Thanks in advance.
[AT&T Samsung Galaxy S 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshootin] Psych0t1c20:
Just out of curiosity, is there a way to "trick" the phone to thinking a rom is 4.2.2 when it's 4.3? Editing the build.prop perhaps? :confused:
[AT&T Samsung Galaxy S 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshootin] scott14719:
You still need a way to flash it to the phone and more importantly, a way to flash different (custom) kernels to the phone. MF3 and 4.3 can't use custom recoveries as of yet. SafeStrap on MF3, helps, but because it exists within a virtually built area of the phone, the ROMs flashed with it are dependent on the kernel that already exists on the phone. MDL can run safestrap because the updated kernel module can be flashed allowing for the MF3 Roms. But 4.3 ROMs can't be run on 4.2.X kernels. So changing the build prop isn't going to help.
[AT&T Samsung Galaxy S 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshootin] jt1998:
Try flashing a different ROM and see if that works.
[AT&T Samsung Galaxy S 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshootin] FalseAim:
I tried with Google Edition 4.2.2, and it worked. The ROM seems to be working fine, although I can't check everything right now. Thanks for the idea, I don't know why I didn't think to try that. I'll try some more ROMs tomorrow, but does anyone have any idea why Goldeneye wouldn't work?
[AT&T Samsung Galaxy S 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshootin] jball:
Did you download the 4.2 version or the 4.3 version of GOLDENEYE?

No 4.3 for Safestrap

Try the GOLDENEYE 4.2.2 version but this time after you activate the ROM slot and wipe ,install the ROM and before you reboot flash the MF3 kernel module zip rite after the ROM than reboot.
[AT&T Samsung Galaxy S 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshootin] jt1998:
I honestly don't know. I swear people say ROM X or Y will work but it always varies on who you ask. Until I flash it myself I never know. Good luck!!
[AT&T Samsung Galaxy S 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshootin] dankify:
So SHOstock works with mf3???
[AT&T Samsung Galaxy S 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshootin] jt1998:
reportedly yes, but it didn't for me personally.
[AT&T Samsung Galaxy S 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshootin] promiseofcake:
I had no issues installing SHOstock 2.0 yesterday.
[AT&T Samsung Galaxy S 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshootin] ptclik85:
Hey I have a question. I want to know if I have to remove safestrap first in order for me to Odin back to stock? The reason I ask is because I want to start fresh with rooting my device.
[AT&T Samsung Galaxy S 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshootin] NighthawkXL:
Just use the MF3 ODIN files and it will return you to 100% stock, without root, SafeStrap,etc. from there you can start from scratch.
[AT&T Samsung Galaxy S 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshootin] synthetikid:
I have been using SHO / SS for the better part of a month with little issue.
[AT&T Samsung Galaxy S 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshootin] ptclik85:
Thank you, I truly appreciate it.
[AT&T Samsung Galaxy S 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshootin] jt1998:
Are you using it on a Galaxy S4 I337 with MF3 baseband, or are you on a different device? - just asking b/c your signature...
[AT&T Samsung Galaxy S 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshootin] FalseAim:
Yes! This was the problem! Thank you, I had no idea that the most current version of Goldeneye wouldn't work. I Should have gone down to the older versions section. I flashed it and it works fine. Thanks for the help.
[AT&T Samsung Galaxy S 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshootin] Supreme Dynamite:
Can you flash Add-ons after the Module?
[AT&T Samsung Galaxy S 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshootin] delachavo:
sgh i337 4.3 leak, without knox security software

any credibility to the 4.3 leak minus the security software (mj6) ? thinking of flashing it to an extra slot and seeing what happens- any obvious risks?
[AT&T Samsung Galaxy S 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshootin] is350:
The only thing I'm confused is with the paritition sizes.

I have 9.6gb free on my phone. I don't use a lot of apps and want to use most of the storage for music.

I put the system size to 1gb but I can't get the data partition more than 4gb. Is that right? I'm trying to utilize all the 9.6gb free space I have so I can fit as much music as possible.

Thanks .
[AT&T Samsung Galaxy S 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshootin] Andrew149:
The only roms you should be able to install is the Google play edition rom's and Samsung touchwiz rom's, The rom's must be 4.2.2 because our kernel is only meant for 4.2.2. No 4.2.2 aosp will not boot cm10 aokp will not work on 4.2.2 also 4.3 roms will not ever work until were able to change to a 4.3 kernel.

This is my understanding correct me if im wrong.
[AT&T Samsung Galaxy S 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshootin] Hashcode:
Hi guys,

Based on [MENTION=833788]rebel1699[/MENTION] testing this, I'll post this link for everyone (I'm out at dinner atm and will start an official thread later)

http://goo.im/devs/Hashcode/jflteatt

Please read up on how to use in the VZW forum, and play it safe. :)

(Thank you [MENTION=833788]rebel1699[/MENTION] for not handing out the other link)
[AT&T Samsung Galaxy S 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshootin] sykoj82:
Thanks for clearing that up with me. I'm assuming when hashcode releases the att ss version, someone may create a new thread stating which roms are compatible with ss? But even if the rom isn't compatible, we can still go back to stock with no issues & that's what makes ss so special. :)
[AT&T Samsung Galaxy S 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshootin] rebel1699:
Was my pleasure, Hashcode. Traffic limits are a pain, and I wasnt about to screw with yours. :)
[AT&T Samsung Galaxy S 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshootin] Andrew149:
He just posted the link right above your post!
[AT&T Samsung Galaxy S 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshootin] Drake9897:
I think it's time we go to dev or stick to general and make a thread with a list of working and not working roms for SS as of now. Ideas suggestions? anyone?
[AT&T Samsung Galaxy S 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshootin] rebel1699:
As Hashcode said, he will be making a release thread later when he gets home. He is eating.
[AT&T Samsung Galaxy S 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshootin] rockshot2:
Are there any GPE ROMS that will work with safestrap that is untouched/not debloated? Hate having to add google apps back on.
[AT&T Samsung Galaxy S 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshootin] my-blue-snog-box:
Did any of you try VZW B08 before ATT B08? If so, did you notice a problem with "/" not mounting? I'm on the S4 Active I537 and it won't mount on either and was wondering if that is due to (maybe) build.prop(?).
[AT&T Samsung Galaxy S 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshootin] Andrew149:
this will work but wifi and gps may not work.

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=2356276