yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[8125, K-JAM, P4300, MDA Vario General] :
I don't understand why JAM users bash the the successor... If you're so happy with your PPC-phones stick with them but please stay at your forum section. :oops:

Idle negative commenting of the likes: "I never asked for a keyboard" or "this thing is a whopping 6mm thicker" is not interesting for no one since these things are of personal preference.

Personally, I'm going back from a 3G smartphone to GSM because of the Wizard: the keyboard, the Wi-fi, and the camera are all necessary for the use I'm intending to do so I find all the above comments out of place.

just my two €urocents... :?
[8125, K-JAM, P4300, MDA Vario General] sleepnow:
Ok, well then how about the fact the its just plain ugly? It so ugly it hurts its own feelings.

I'd be ashamed to own a phone like that! "oooh, but it has a keyboard" guess what? Still ugly. I'm just relieved of the news about Atom - this appears to be a truly suitable replacement.
[8125, K-JAM, P4300, MDA Vario General] jaythemagician:
Just cos you ca't afford it;). I wasn't to keen on the k-jam at first but when it came i was hooked! The atom isn't suitable- it's even more a repackaged jam than the k-jam! Who cares anyway,the whole thing with these devices is that one thing does't suit all, why get all wound up? weird :roll:
[8125, K-JAM, P4300, MDA Vario General] far182:
I think the wizard is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay better looking than the Jam. The Jam looks like a Ipod and I think those things are puke ugly.

Personal preference.
[8125, K-JAM, P4300, MDA Vario General] wardy:
:lol: :lol: The Ipod Nano looks cool . The size it should have been in the first place .. I guess apple thought if they made it PDA size put a calendar and contacts database in it then it would replace our PDA's :!:
[8125, K-JAM, P4300, MDA Vario General] jamijam:
got my wiz after using a jam for 6 months and I can see I am very pleasantly surprised. Quick notes:

Size/Weight: Somehow it doesn't really feel that different to the Jam in your pocket or your hand. It's the same weight I think, and the extra thickness just makes it look more proporational. I know this sounds weird, but size is really not a concern anymore for me, now that I've held it.

Attractiveness: Looks as good as the jam placed next to it. Agan from the pictures I didn't think this was the case, but I'm happy.

Stylus: prefer the jam's, this one sucks, both placement and feel.

Keyboard: nothing to say here, it's a keyboard, makes SMSing faster, sturdy construction.

Screen: as good as, if not better than Jam.

Battery Life: don't know yet, but I noticed it's 50mAH bigger battery.

Wi-fi: works as advertised.

WM5: Awesome. This is finally a phone you can use 99% of the time without a stylus. I knew nothing about WM5 and this is a huge surprise to me.

I've only used it for 6 hours, I'll write more later, but basically if I had to choose between the two today, I would go for the Wizard.

Try one out in a store before making up your mind about size and attractiveness!
[8125, K-JAM, P4300, MDA Vario General] jamijam:
BTW, I noted some people making comments about the CPU.

It feels pretty much the same speed as the jam doing the usual stuff, maybe 10% slower, but it's hard to tell if it's WM5 or the CPU. All in all, it's not really noticeable difference.
[8125, K-JAM, P4300, MDA Vario General] jamijam:
note, voice calls sound better as well. No more wondering why you're so-called 'phone' doesn't have decent phone quality ;)
[8125, K-JAM, P4300, MDA Vario General] skagen:
Great to hear that - its long overdue in these things.
[8125, K-JAM, P4300, MDA Vario General] Ineedtoys:
It was clear when Skagen first got his Jam that he'd bought the wrong device for his needs (STF). He's done nothing but ***** about it since. And as you say, a slimmer, fitter, Jam is on the way for those who don't need a keyboard, so I can't see what he is complaining about. But then he complained even more when we gave him all the solutions to his Jam problems. I guess that's just the way he is...
[8125, K-JAM, P4300, MDA Vario General] skagen:
Its clear that you're an apologist. Other than that, you're not of much use.

Many of the things I pointed out were addressed in newer models eg lack of proper thought about one handed use. Thus newer deviced have the soft buttons and the OS is now been given some more though to that, though not completely.

As for the sound quality, people are STILL complaing on this board about the Magician sound quality. Mean while the Wizard I have heard that some are now saying it is louder than expected. Again, you were the apologist and I was the one calling a spade a spade.

So obviosuly I know what I was talking about - because many of the things I said were prioritized as fixes in subsequent models. So if I say going up in size is not a positive, at least I have credibity as someone thinking properly about these things. You are an excuse maker. Period.If it was up to people like you, we'd all STILL be using 1 lb bricks with 10 digit display and smiling about it.
[8125, K-JAM, P4300, MDA Vario General] skagen:
Well why did they put that crap out at $500 a pop in the first place. That is people's hard earned money.

And why were you excusing things that they any moron with a brain could see were bad design. Let alone the bigegst software company in the world.

Let alone excusing a phone with bad audio quality. What next, excuses for a camera that takes bad pictures?

A 10 page dissertation to nowhere wont get you out if it. Sorry, Mr. A-P-O-L-O-G-I-S-T.
[8125, K-JAM, P4300, MDA Vario General] simon_darley:
Your Debate

People, settle down a bit, this forum is supposed to be for open contribution of knowledge about the device, not to sling mud at each other. I thought it funny to read two people going at it, but when I got to the end, I was no more informed than when I started, so I can only assert that there was no contribution of knowledge.

I have always found this site a friendly helpful site, sure we have devices with bugs, sure they dont always perform exactly as expected, but thats what we asked for, indirectly.

If we want to talk analogy, there are two basic style motor bikes, the road bike and the dirt bike. Each specialises and performs to its own level of excellence within their chosen fields, take one and put into the other environment, neither will perform as well as the other. SO... what did we do, we invented the road and trail bike, and what did we get, something that was capable in either field, but overall quite bad at it.

Thats what these devices are. If you want something fast with lots of memory, you get a computer or server, if you want something that can make a phone call, you get a mobile phone, if you want something to take nice pictures you get a 5mp camera, or an original film based camera, if you want to listen to music, you get a stereo, and so it goes on.

What you have now is a compromise machine, they are capable in every field, but overall quite bad at it.

I had the XDAII and was quite happy with it, but wanted a keyboard and wanted wifi so I didnt need a backpack or a protruding SD card. WM2005 is nice cause you keep up with technology and see what is going on, but it doesnt provide all that much functionality in itself.

So people, contribute your knowledge, but accept the fact that the devices are compromise devices, not specialist devices, you can do a bit of everything, but nothing to any professional perfect level, that would require specialist devices.

Think of them as the Road and Trail motor bike, they are not a road bike and not a dirt bike, we got a bit of everything, but couldnt beat either in a race or performance in their specialised fields they were produced for.

Be happy, be helpful, learn from experience, build a bridge and get over it, the otherside is harmonious and at the end of the bridge you will find that the device still works and whats more, you can make a telephone call, take pictures, listen to music, handle email, sms, mms, record voices, open word, excel, and do all the other things you bought it for, just not as well, as efficiently, or as effectively, but you compromised along the way for a multitasking machine.
[8125, K-JAM, P4300, MDA Vario General] Ineedtoys:
Yet again, you totally ignore the facts, and contradict yourself.

1. The Jam was the best device available using the latest OS available from MS, and the best hardware HTC could provide, at a mid price point for a PPC Phone. You yourself called it a benchmark!

2. The audio quality is no worse than many other phones on the market (and better than it's main competitor, the Treo 650).

You are obviously too thick to appreciate that product development and testing takes a LOT of time and expense, and that all devices such as the Jam (which was a quantum leap in PPC Phone size reduction) take at least two years to come to market - plus another 6 months to gain network operator certification. You just shout and never listen. Maybe you should try stroll down to your local car dealer and rant at them because they won't sell you a car that is completely defect free and runs on water. Then get your head out of the clouds and back into the real world, where the majority of people are pleased with what they are getting for their money - otherwise they wouldn't buy them, would they?
[8125, K-JAM, P4300, MDA Vario General] Ineedtoys:
Re: Your Debate

Simon, wise words indeed. Unfortunately, skagen is incapable of understanding why a convergence device cannot perform as well as a dedicated phone, or the concept of "horses for courses". As for being helpful, I and several others have given him many solutions and workarounds to address the usability shortcomings he bitterly complains about (which one of the beauties an open platform such as WM and it's 3rd party support gives you). Instead of exploring this advice to improve his enjoyment of the Jam, he just sticks his fingers in his ears and rants about how it won't work the way he demands it should. You can lead a horse to water...
[8125, K-JAM, P4300, MDA Vario General] skagen:
You are obviously too thick to figure out that if they took 2 years and 6 months, then they shouldn't come to market with retated mistakes that my little sister could have figured out without a fancy job title of "product develpment".

Also very telling that you are quick to point of how much the company spent - but quick to disregard what

the customer

has paid. Yeah, we know who you work for!

The customer does not deserve to have to pay all that money for

obvious

design or quality flaws. Nor should they have to come to XDA and trawl for "workarounds" which should not have been required in the first place!
[8125, K-JAM, P4300, MDA Vario General] Ineedtoys:
The "obvious" flaws you see are not insurmountable, so you're making an issue where most sensible people have just got on with it and taken the shortcomings on balance with the benefits of such a flexible device. Flexibity which gives them the

choice

to tailor the device to how

they

(not you) want it to work.

As much as you decry it, product development is a fact of life, one of evolution and gradual convergence.

That's why the Pocket PCs became PCs with GSM added (Pocket PC Phone Edition) - for devices where prime function was initially as a data-centric PDA.

For people who wanted a device that behaved more like a phone, with added PDA functionality , we got Windows Mobile Smartphone Edition (with all the buttons and shortcuts and audio quality you apparently crave).

Then we got Windows Mobile 5, unifying both platforms and bringing over the best parts of the phone UI from Smartphone (i.e. the context sensitive menus and soft keys).

But MS knew what all the users knew - that the Treo had the class leading UI and form factor by far. Conversely Palm recognised that many of their users would prefer to have Windows comapatbility (particularly in the corporate environment). So they set up a project to combine the best bits of the Treo, with the best bits of WM, then added extra functions on top, with the aim of making the 700w the next best in breed. As you will know from the recent press releases, that has taken two years of collobaration and hard work.

Now we've got the Wizard, which addresses the many requests for an inbuilt keyboard and better speakerphone, and the imporved phone integration and one handed usablity of WM5.

Some people don't want the extra girth that comes with a keyboard (hence this thread), so we'll soon have a leaner, faster Jam to cater for that segment.

No matter what you say, all these steps are positive, and give the consumer a better product and a range that suits different tastes and needs (believe it or not, not everyone thinks like you).

But that all costs time and resource, which doesn't come cheap. If you want to be an early adopter of these enhancements, you've got to pay the price to fund the R&D. Just like new safety and gadget innovations are only available first on top of the range cars.

Only an idiot would expect this all yesterday and for free. Any person with the most tenuos link with reality knows how ludicrous that is.

Finally, if the Jam and WM2003SE/PE suck so much, why haven't you off-loaded it on eBay and got something else more suited to your taste? If your little sister could see how obviously bad it was, why didn't she tell you to send it back for a full refund?

Perhaps your ill-researched buy in February locked you into a 12/18 month contract, and that's why we're still having to suffer all these sour grapes. What other reason could there be for you to put up with such daily torment?
[8125, K-JAM, P4300, MDA Vario General] ShALLaX:
Well put.
[8125, K-JAM, P4300, MDA Vario General] skagen:
Another 50 page apologist dissertation by the Comical Ali of the pDA world. There is zero excuse for selling a phone with such poor audio performance. Zero.

As for the "Sensible people" - sensible people would say "hey the customer is paying $6,7,800 for this item. We better make it work". Not having them trawl the internet to find fixes.

Save the 50 page garbage for your personal wank sessions. I'm not interested at all.
[8125, K-JAM, P4300, MDA Vario General] ShALLaX:
For god sakes, no one is asking you to buy this. You don't like it, we get it. Don't buy it. But dont tell other people it's not suited to their needs.
[8125, K-JAM, P4300, MDA Vario General] wardy:
Amen to that , it's all about personal choices at the end of the day .
[8125, K-JAM, P4300, MDA Vario General] skagen:
I don't say anyone had to buy it or not.

I

do

object to this guy consistently claiming PPC flaws and omissions to be "features" eg the "close" button doesn't close programs and he calls it a feature. They make obvious omissions in the OS and he talks about "workarounds".

He works for one of these companies and comes on the inetrnet boards

all the time

to spread propaganda. Its so obvious. He's been doing it for ages.
[8125, K-JAM, P4300, MDA Vario General] ShALLaX:
Well, the whole close button issue is very long and drawn out. If Microsoft truely wanted it to be a close button they would have done it long ago - hell, it would take (at most) a single line of code to change its functionality. This has to lead me to believe that Microsoft only wanted it to minimise the application intentionally (most probably to save on the time overhead of starting up the programme again). What doesnt quite make sense is why MS couldnt have implemented a tap'n'hold system whereby holding the X minimises but tapping closes (or vice-versa)... maybe Microsoft doesnt give enough credit to the intellect of their users and feel this would be confusing or cumbersome.

At any rate, people have been arguing about this since the Pocket PC edition of Windows CE first came out (which is what, 5-6 years ago now?) and Microsoft haven't made any move to change it. What does that tell you? It may tell you that Microsoft doesn't care or that Microsoft prefers it as it currently is. Either way you have three choices, "Rant and rave", "Get used to it" or "Get lost". After 5-6 years of the first of the three choices being used to no avail isn't it time to move on?

I do happen to agree with you on this issue... the first piece of software I usually install is WisBar which allows you to overcome this. I have given up waiting for MS to change it themselves.
[8125, K-JAM, P4300, MDA Vario General] far182:
Did you get beat up as a kid? You are making a phone, and this forum, somewhat of a political battle. Get over it, its just a phone.

The best message you can send is by using your money. Buy or don't buy a product, the manufacture will get the message.

FYI. The audio quality of this phone is fantastic. The fact that you bring this up tells me you have never used the Kjam.
[8125, K-JAM, P4300, MDA Vario General] skagen:
The guy is referring to previous generations of PPC models - which did have a lot of audio quality - and other - complaints. I even commented here that HTC have responded to the previous audio failings in this model.

Read the thread

before you start writing.
[8125, K-JAM, P4300, MDA Vario General] gogol:
get lost if you dont want to buy it !
[8125, K-JAM, P4300, MDA Vario General] Ineedtoys:
You can't read. That's not what you were asked. You do however try to portray it as something which is totally unusable as a phone or PDA, hoping for other to join you in your little fantasy world. Tell me again, why are you still using it?

Tell me where I called the lack of close button a feature. But now you mention it - it is deliberate. WM is a fully multitasking windowed environment - except that you can only fit one window on the screen at once. How do you expect to be able to switch between active windows, if the background application just stops executing and unloads from memory? You'd soon be complaining then. And. as ShALLaX says, it also gives a speed advantage - something that was critical when sluggish 120MHz-200Mhz PPCs were head -to-head in the shop with the more responsive (but single tasking) 33/66MHz Palms.

True, it would have been better to have the option to fully close - but as there are dozens of free products which not only fill that gap, but often also give extra functionality MS would never have thought of, what's the big deal? It works, and it's cost you nothing!

Now he's got paranoia. Irrespective of who pays my salary, I am keen to find out ways to get the best from my gadgets, and so maximum benefit and enjoyment from owning and using them. That's why I'm here, to pick up knowledge and occasionaly share some too.

All the problems you have raised can be easily fixed, and I and others have spent hours trying to show you how. What I

do

object to is that 6 months later your'e still sat here screaming "it won't work, I don't like it, M$ suck' over and over again like a spoilt 3 year old, not listening to a word anyone else says, or accepting that anyone can have a different view point or user experience to yours.

It's not our fault you didn't research or understand what you (or mummy) bought, or that you have not used the time since to enjoy what the device CAN do, like everyone else here, instead of what it can't. Now that IS a waste of time and money. The sooner you get over it, get rid of the Jam and go and back to Nokia Jr. CLub (which, judging from the language in your previous posts, is where you'll be most at home), the better.
[8125, K-JAM, P4300, MDA Vario General] skagen:
Hey, idiot, I have said before that it is a good PDA and average phone. Below average if you get one of th bad ones (of which there are many out there). So yeah its not up to par as a phone.

Read

before you post. Or stick to kindergarten level stuff.

Exactly my point. A common sense thing is missing in the OS. Why come here and boast about 2 years and $ X Million spent on development when my 12 yr old sister could have told you what makes sense - and they didn't figure it out?

In fact the "close" option is more important on these devices which are chronically lacking in memory capacity. A PC has 3 tiny buttons on the top left (minimize, window size,close - because you need the 3 options. In the mobile device the limited memory capcity dictates that at the very least you need the (close and minimize as two options)

Dont come here talking nonsense about this a supposedly windows-like OS when it doesn't even properly replicate common sense good things about windows in places where they would be appropriate. Can you imaging if Windows didn't have a close button and people were told to go out and buy software or get freeware - for a

basic OS function?

And I'm a person who pays good money for these things. My own money. They are not corporate free toys of the week - which is how YOU get them.

Your screen name say sit all.

So STFU, I could care less what you think. Your entire agenda is just to excuse and apologize.

You've more or less admitted who you are - the Comical Ali of this business. Shut up and go home. If you need to talk, feel free to go and tell your employers to have more respect for the money that people pay for these products and put out things that work correctly the FIRST time, not after 3 replacements, 2 ROM "Udpates" and 100hrs spent on XDA Developers forums.
[8125, K-JAM, P4300, MDA Vario General] ShALLaX:
"Its a good PDA, an average phone, a below average phone, not up to par as a phone". Mmmm decisive. What are these "bad ones"? I've not had any reports of certain Wizards out performing others...
[8125, K-JAM, P4300, MDA Vario General] Ineedtoys:
So a PDA that has "obvious omissions in the OS", when "they put that crap out at $500 a pop" and "any moron with a brain could see were bad design" is now "good"?

And a "a phone with such poor audio performance", "a phone with bad audio quality", where "the audio quality of this phone is horrible and unacceptable" and "the quality control on this model is crap" is now "average"?

What an excellent reviewer you would make .

Forget what your prejudices and what you _think_ it must have for a moment, and look at hard facts. What difference does it _really_ make to the speed of a 400MHz PPC when a few frequently used applications are in the background?

I'll tell you - hardly any. In fact the user experience is improved because of the faster switching between apps. Don't forget, most PDA users never use anything but the built-in apps, so for the majority the "minimize only" concept does actually work.

It's only when you start loading the machine up with extra apps that memory becomes short, and if you're capable of doing that, you're capable of adding a free enhanced application handler too.

I never said it was ideal - but as the cure is so simple (and free), I just can't see what the big deal is. If you get so hung up on something so simple, how on earth do you cope with life's more complex problems?

See, there you go in your little fantasy world again. You have _no_ idea what I do (not that it's any of your business), but you carry on ranting and making it all up, convincing yourself that it's all a huge conspiracy. Talk about being deluded. (Mind you, this is the poor soul who thought every one who disagreed with him in a previous thread was the same person).

But wait a minute...

So not only do you not know what those buttons are called, you have them on the opposite side to everyone else. Now I understand. There's just no point trying to reason with someone who lives on the wrong side of the Looking Glass :lol:

So, enough of this nonsense. How are people getting along with the Wizard now they've got used to it? Is it still too fat and ugly?
[8125, K-JAM, P4300, MDA Vario General] Mashie:
I am very happy with my Wizard. For what I do (road warrior) It is the perfect combination of featurs in a very good package. Having WiFi, Edge and a nice comfortable thumb keyboard for those longer e-mails makes it a very good device in my book. Sometimes I wish the processor could be a little snappier but after removing the AV and assigning buttons, I find I can get the majority of what I need to do without having to pull out the stylus.

After a week, I still give it a solid grade of A :)