yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Ornate TrueSmart] toxiciti:
Cannot wait for this watch!! The Neptune Pine looks good too but I'm thinking the Omate is the one to beat. I hear google is going to be making one as well. There are just tons of competitors coming. Check out this website, it shows a lot of new ones coming: http://www.theconnectedwrist.com/
[Ornate TrueSmart] NachTSS:
Only ax2 comet that I know of but it costs 1/3 more and isnt as good and doesnt look as nice. I still want it too if its price drops tho.
[Ornate TrueSmart] MRFERRARI23:
So Google said that Omate doesn't have the proper resolution to support the play store, but that doesn't mean we can't side load the play store apk and still use the play store to download apps right? I'm guessing we shouldn't have a problem doing it this way
[Ornate TrueSmart] speedyink:
Play store will be easy enough to put on it. It's been put on much less qualified devices before.
[Ornate TrueSmart] thesparky007:
Playstore access requires licensing from Google.. so legally you can't just sideload play store and download apps
[Ornate TrueSmart] speedyink:
That hasn't seemed to stop the other unsupported devices from getting it unofficially.
[Ornate TrueSmart] markyboy81:
I'm sure there will be no issue getting apps, but the issue for me will be whether we'll be able to have access to the paid apps that we've already paid for.
[Ornate TrueSmart] Stu|:
Once play store is on then any apps you have purchased will be available. I had all my apps available when I bought a cheap Chinese tablet that wasn't certified and it didn't matter, the only difference was it didn't register it as one of my devices so I couldn't push apps from the Web play store interface. I'm sure there is another few differences but it will only be to do with syncing changes back to Google as the device is not certified for play store.
[Ornate TrueSmart] markyboy81:
Thanks, if that's the case with the TS then for me it's not a big deal.
[Ornate TrueSmart] spinedoc:
Anyone else having a hard time deciding between the Omate and the Neptune Pine? I would probably use these as standalone devices without the watch strap and the Neptune looks nicer for this purpose. They each have pluses and minuses, choices are a good thing but I'm stuck between deciding on these 2.
[Ornate TrueSmart] sm753:
I think most of us are on Android and on XDA specifically because we don't really care what Google and our phone's manufacturer says what we can or can't do with OUR phones. :highfive: i.e. I doubt anyone here actually cares about whether or not Google says it's "legal" to sideload play store. Pretty much a moot point in this community. Not trying to be an ass, just wanted to point that out because people (and tech blogs) seem to be making this a big deal.
[Ornate TrueSmart] vectron:
Without watch strap, like on a lanyard, would be more functional with Neptune especially considering front/back cameras. But on a wrist, Neptune is too big. Plus considering a lot higher price and questionable support of Pine - there is no doubt in my mind to go with Omate.
[Ornate TrueSmart] ClearD:
Free desktop charging cradle.

Sent using XDA-funded carrier pigeons
[Ornate TrueSmart] Lokifish Marz:
I quit being an Omate forum moderator over the issue. Myself and others asked, begged, screamed that they release an official update for over a month. I believe "non-issue" was used a couple times as well as "why is this even being brought up". In the end I had to pretty much write it for them after I had already left as moderator.

Now here we are with Oct. Dev units shipping soon and no official word about source code, unlocked bootloader or preinstalled unsec or custom recovery. It's not like that wasn't discussed multiple times as well before I left and was always "we will get to it when we get to it. it's not a big deal" type response when ever we were lucky to even get one.

Now as a dev I could care less about Google Services but the average user was lead to believe that it would come with it. This is even after Omate knew that no current version of Android would allow it. Seeing that Omate knew about it for so long and officially said nothing is the reason for the torches and pitchforks. Everything going on in the blogs/news is exactly what myself and another former mod told them would happen.
[Ornate TrueSmart] kuronosan:
Who was the other?
[Ornate TrueSmart] sm753:
I believe this is the nature of Kickstarter projects though. As far as I understand how things work via KS, they're not technically obligated to deliver on anything they've promised. They're technically not obligated to deliver anyone a watch at all. As someone "helped fund" their project, obviously I hope that is not the case - but there are many cases on KS where this has happened.

But ultimately you are absolutely right, they should have officially announced this earlier if Google had already given them a definitive NO on Play Store support. Thanks for the "behind the scene" view and information on things.
[Ornate TrueSmart] Lokifish Marz:
I agree about the working of KS. It took forever for me to get my TF reader for USB host devices.

Thank you.

IraqiGeek, but I will not go into to circumstances or reasons behind it.
[Ornate TrueSmart] funky0308:
Even it's true - project on KS is just founding project and we aren't buying anything we are helping newly and innovating project to be founded.

Because of that reason we shouldn't even pay any customs or taxes - it's a gift for our loyalty...

But....

I posted few questions and many of you mock me and was saying I whining and that I should wait and be quiet...

That's not good, we have, as a founders, every rights to know and to get new informations about project we are founding.

O.K - I give all credits to Omare, they are different and that's why we all love it - but this is their marketing, this will sell their final product and if they mess this up and continue to "hide" informations - that won't be good.

They have great product and it's not end of the world if they said - No Market for now...

They just need to be more honest and straight and everything will be o.k..

Maybe giving money on KS doesn't mean you'll get something 100% but it's surly not good way to choose and go if you're planning to sell your product and expect to hear good stuff on forums about you and your, in this case, watch.
[Ornate TrueSmart] the_eclectic1:
I remember reading before the project closed in an android article, can't remember which site, also questioning Omate's claims of Google Play Store support. The writer rightly, as it turned out, stating that Play Store support is only granted if the device is above a certain resolution [320x320?]. The author did check with Omate and Omate claims it's in contact with Google. The author was just trying to highlight that Google support is predicated on certain conditions and TrueSmart didn't fulfill the display resolution prerequisite.

As it turns out he was right. From what I know based on current specifications. TrueSmart will not get Google support officially unless they resolve the display resolution.
[Ornate TrueSmart] Lokifish Marz:
Those changes happen with every Android/API version update. So if KitKat doesn't support it then no chance of Google Services until the next release.
[Ornate TrueSmart] alabak2002:
I think it is probable that Google didn't expect to see Android getting into small screen devices like the Truesmart so soon. They would be concerned about the OS fragmentation, but either they accept it as a fact and change the prerequisites, or they will lose the chance to get it present into lots of new devices.

Either way, i'm sure a propietary store from Omate will be enough to offer a good selection of software that works well i ¡n the watch.

AND

I bet we will see a way to push Googl Apps into the Truesmart as soon as the first developer units arrive at destination

Not even slightly worried about the Store
[Ornate TrueSmart] the_eclectic1:
One can still sideload apps. But as a layman it's harder than just downloading from the Play Store. Bummer! I'm a backer too.
[Ornate TrueSmart] ClearD:
We did it for the motoactv, we can do it for the truesmart. The files should be the same anyway, with the services files and such. It'd only require root, and the rest is trivial. As already stated, I'll try to make a one click root and Google services installer.

Sent using XDA-funded carrier pigeons
[Ornate TrueSmart] NachTSS:
I managed to get a simvalley pearl 414.go (the omate truesmart prototype right?) It got here with playstore built into the firmware. it also has no homepages or widget support and nealy no settings to change gui stuff and only 3 apps per folder and if you put more apps then it wants to show in the drawer? some randomly vanish and some show twice. I tried use alternative launchers but then the notification bar vanishes and no longer works. So I was wondering if truesmart roms would work on it as it even says its omate firmware that its running.
[Ornate TrueSmart] vectron:
Did you guys see Omate will include TrueSmart Desktop Charging cradle with every order? IMHO, great PR move to offset yesterday update ;)
[Ornate TrueSmart] Lokifish Marz:
Better be a joke

-Posted in Omate Forums

"I just searched the FCC's Equipment Authorization System and couldn't find anything from Omate. And the last equipment authorization filing from Umeox was in 2011."
[Ornate TrueSmart] thompsos:
That would not bode well for American backers... Has there been any discussion of FCC authorization in the Omate forums or in any of the KS updates? I don't recall seeing any, but I have not followed this as closely (though I am a backer).
[Ornate TrueSmart] arnzzz:
What's the problem exactly, I'm confused!
[Ornate TrueSmart] Lokifish Marz:
This was the first time it was brought up in the forums as Omate stated in the KS comments that it would go for FCC/CE certification in September.

A legal nightmare if caught. All cellphones are required by law to have FCC certification for the device and all the radios in the device. It is technically illegal to ship into the U.S. or use any of the radios in the device that do not have proper certification.
[Ornate TrueSmart] thompsos:
The FCC requires that any product that is covered by FCC regulations undergo "equipment authorization procedure". It is illegal to import, sell, or lease covered equipment that has not undergone the required equipment authorization procedure. Additionally, operators must cease to use equipment that causes interference upon notification by the FCC. The FCC does have the ability to levy fines, impose seizures, and even jail offenders. The FCC frequently targets end-users with fines to bring pressure to bear on retailers. Source

Additionally:

It is illegal to import, sell, or operate covered equipment that has not undergone the required equipment authorization procedure. Illegal merchandise can be subject to forfeiture, and you may be subject to fine. Imported merchandise that does not have FCC may be held at customs. Also, lack of FCC compliance means the merchandise has never been evaluated for electronic compatibility. This could be a sign of bad quality. What other safety or chemical regulatory requirements might not have been evaluated? FCC enforcement action is often levied against retailers and end users, especially where the manufacturer is located outside US jurisdiction.
[Ornate TrueSmart] kuronosan:
This could be bad if they don't answer quick.
[Ornate TrueSmart] vectron:
Perhaps a delay due to gov shutdown which could have affected FCC?
[Ornate TrueSmart] BBowermaster:
What do you think you guys will get thrown in for free for this little debacle? =P
[Ornate TrueSmart] kuronosan:
A jail sentence.
[Ornate TrueSmart] Lokifish Marz:
Q's but no A's at this point;

1) During the KS, Omate mentioned that the Oct version "may" come with ClockworkMod recovery or some other open recovery. Can we get final word on this?

2) Not specifically addressed anywhere but will the bootloader be unlocked?

3) If the bootloader will not come unlocked will a method be provided to do so from Omate?

4) What is Omate's position on releasing source code?

5) If Omate intends on being in compliance with GPL and releases source code, how will it be released?

6) Will a direct download be available of flashable firmware releases? (preferred method for developers vs OTA)

And now

7) Does the TrueSmart have FCC, CE and RoHS certifications?
[Ornate TrueSmart] vagelis:
A lack of readily available FCC documentation does not necessarily mean anything. The fruit company regularly asks the FCC to withhold public release of their product certification until the day they release their 'fruits'. Of course, we know nothing of Omate's intentions, and it would be to their benefit to come clean on this sooner than later. I too, have sprung for their 1/8 GB due in December gizmo, and I'd sure like to know that Omate 's keeping all their ducks in a row.
[Ornate TrueSmart] Lokifish Marz:
I'm hoping that's the case but with the way things have been going.....
[Ornate TrueSmart] kuronosan:
It has CE for sure... the question is regarding fcc compliance, which is incredibly important in the U.S.
[Ornate TrueSmart] dproldan:
Do they have a bluetooth SIG vendor id?

At that integration level, I'd say that they'll need to buy a block to use their own bt addresses.

Just like any other company.

https://www.bluetooth.org/en-us/specification/assigned-numbers/company-identifiers
[Ornate TrueSmart] arnzzz:
Whatever is happening hopefully they update us soon. I haven't been following as closely the last two weeks as I had been and I come back to the Google play problem :(, the new charging dock :), and now the FCC mystery :(.

I'm going to be keeping a much closer eye on all this now :)

Sent from my Omate Truesmart (in my dreams)
[Ornate TrueSmart] vectron:
I go nuts when I see this picture :) Looks so damn good!

And Absolute 3D audio player:
[Ornate TrueSmart] arnzzz:
[MENTION=3996566]vectron[/MENTION] me to. Love it when they show any new pics :)

Those folders look good, cannot wait to fill them up.

I'm honestly not to bothered about the 3d audio stuff. It's cool but I really cannot think of a use for it on a mobile device like this.

The only time I've ever used it is with a gaming headset while playing ArmA 3.

In pretty sure that's not coming to the truesmart ;)

Sent from my Omate Truesmart (in my dreams)
[Ornate TrueSmart] spinedoc:
Hmm, I just read that the antenna was in the watch band, so you cannot remove it. That's a dealbreaker for me, as I thought I would be able to use it as a standalone device. I'm still deciding though, but the Neptune Pine sure looks enticing, larger screen, cameras, resolution, can use without watch band. Maybe i have to get them both, hehe.
[Ornate TrueSmart] tangcla:
Buy both, decide which you like, sell one...
[Ornate TrueSmart] kuronosan:
Uh I don't think the word standalone means what you think it means.
[Ornate TrueSmart] spinedoc:
I thought it could be used as a phone by itself, without being connected to a full size phone?
[Ornate TrueSmart] ClearD:
You can, with both I believe.
[Ornate TrueSmart] kuronosan:
Looks like FCC certification is pending but delayed thanks to our shutdown.
[Ornate TrueSmart] Marcel63:
:confused:

Wondering how FCC certification is delayed due to the shutdown.
[Ornate TrueSmart] alabak2002:
The US government was out of order for 17 days, so that means, at least, two weeks delay, If the certification was not in omate's hands before that.
[Ornate TrueSmart] NachTSS:
they look like home screens to me not folders? I could be wrong tho, I agree about the audio thing tho but it could still be interesting.
[Ornate TrueSmart] Stu|:
Seems they are behind on Oct dispatch https://plus.google.com/101119752906796561758/posts/Umj78LpyQwF
[Ornate TrueSmart] Lokifish Marz:
As per the Omate forum

"1. What is Omate's position on releasing source code?

Yes and No. No, due to commercial agreements on non-disclosure for the operating systems. However, for some parts of functions which are developed under GPL or development done with the community, there is possibility for source code release."

We can now scratch custom kernels and AOSP/AOKP/CM from the list as you can pretty much bet that the unreleased parts will be MediaTek's.

The only chance is to "steal" source code from another device and merge it. I know that I will not have time to do this as my daughter's birth will come before I get my TS.
[Ornate TrueSmart] Stu|:
Hopefully they will be able to release blobs for the MediaTek stuff.
[Ornate TrueSmart] sm753:
That's a little disappointing. Why even use Android OS then? Might as well be completely proprietary and closed source.
[Ornate TrueSmart] Lokifish Marz:
Don't bet on it. The blobs are probably what is being referenced in the "no" part.
[Ornate TrueSmart] ClearD:
Little off topic, and slightly on, but what exactly is a blob and what can you do with it? I understand it's a "binary large object", which is a backronym, but what are they composed of and how are they used?

Sent using XDA-funded carrier pigeons
[Ornate TrueSmart] kuronosan:
If it's anything like nexus binaries it's basically raw code.
[Ornate TrueSmart] dproldan:
When you download the Android source code from Google you need to add those "blobs" to actually make a working rom.

Closed source libraries, hardware abstraction layer parts, etc

They're the reason why the first ports of Android to new hardware usually have non working wifi, sound, cameras, etc
[Ornate TrueSmart] kuronosan:
I'm really disappointed in the sheer ignorance of some of the moderators there.
[Ornate TrueSmart] fn1046:
Well they are good at saying "everything is great, everything is on time, the truesmart is amazing" :rolleyes:
[Ornate TrueSmart] Lokifish Marz:
I tried and got tired of it's not an issue type responses from fellow mods. That and having to fight for answers was the reason I left/got kicked. Now with mods saying there is no direct relation between what independent kernel/rom devs do and average end users not running custom ROMs, I'm pretty much done as there are a number of known instances to the contrary.
[Ornate TrueSmart] kuronosan:
Well, I've no doubts as to the quality of the watch but I really think they picked the wrong moderators. Having little communication from the team is already tense... Having people who have no impartial view of development, etc, makes it a nightmare. One of them told Loki that firmware developers are a minority therefore who cares. It was ignorant and uncalled for... especially from a moderator.

---------- Post added at 04:47 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:45 PM ----------

I know I've disagreed with you on some issues but I tried to tell them this is one instance where you are absolutely correct. Most of what android is today came from independent developers.

They're just starry-eyed and frankly should not be moderating.
[Ornate TrueSmart] Lokifish Marz:
But it was mostly different sides of the same coin type stuff. Legal vs nuts and bolts, implied vs semantics. Things of that nature. Honestly most of the disagreements I had there came down to wording.

I read your post before they deleted the thread. Seeing that I won't be going back I'll thnk you here instead. Thank you.
[Ornate TrueSmart] kuronosan:
Even if you don't go back there I hope you'll stick around here and work with clear on doing what you can.
[Ornate TrueSmart] Lokifish Marz:
My time will be limited but I dev out of necessity to maintain my sanity so I will work with ClearD and other devs. Even if I don't release publicly I will still work behind the scenes with the other devs.

Having done everything from Tier 1 Vendor service/repair and support to independent development to consulting on prototypes in the mobile industry, I do not see a reason to go back to the official forums. At least with it's current environment.
[Ornate TrueSmart] kuronosan:
I agree, and I'm looking forward to seeing what you guys can deliver here. It's a shame they don't recognize the contributions xda has made.
[Ornate TrueSmart] spinedoc:
Can we at least still get Root and the google play store? I think I'd be pretty much happy with just that.
[Ornate TrueSmart] kuronosan:
I can confirm that both work.
[Ornate TrueSmart] vectron:
You can confirm based on receiving Omate already or just theoretically? Not sure if perhaps you are one of their beta testers :)

[MENTION=224698]loki[/MENTION]: man, that's one 180 degree turn around. You were one of the most vocal supporters and cheerleaders of Omate on XDA, KS/Omate, G+ pages, and Omate forum. But at the same time, perhaps it's too much to handle with baby on it's way. Takes some pressure off ;)

In general, I would like to make a comment. I'm not a developer, and personally never even got into that whole rooting/ROM scene because my smartphones cover both personal and work use, and under my work Exchange server security policies I'm not allowed to root or customize my phone (and being constantly pin protected is PITA). What I do is write a lot of accessory/gadget reviews on XDA (as you can see per my sig link) where I approach every review from a CONSUMER point of view. Yes, XDA-Dev community is enormous with millions of registered users, but majority of android smart phone users and ex iPhone users who jumped the ship - are still consumers who want everything to work right out of the box with minimum tweaking and setup. Without a doubt the choice of Android OS gives you an enormous flexibility of customization, but in the grand picture most users extend it only to wall paper change or rearranging icons or layout with different widgets.

Perhaps, that's what Omate see in their TrueSmart 2.0 product where they want to fine tune and to control SW part without getting it into the wild by releasing the code and then being stuck supporting those who can't follow simple directions and will brick the watch? Also, keep in mind, we are constantly seeing more and more Android clone watches being released with fancy looking hardware and sh!tty generic cookie cutter SW. All of them would love to get their hands on Omate OS version, because they don't care and will include it just like Google Playstore without any official licensing agreement. So Omate also has to protect their intellectual property since there are way too many hardware clones.

So my question: Is "developers edition" with early October release was intended to be for "developers" so they can start with their "development"? Majority on KS jumped on that only for the reason to get their watches one month earlier. But for those who are truly "developers" and have their edition on October pre-order, what software/firmware package have you received from Omate already and what can you actually do with it?
[Ornate TrueSmart] ClearD:
I'm not sure entirely what can be done yet, but there's everything from flash tools to an imei write tool. They want us to have control and freedom, I believe.

Sent using XDA-funded carrier pigeons
[Ornate TrueSmart] kuronosan:
Not a beta tester, but I'm working with their lead developer on the clocks app. I've seen the root access and play store function and he's been posting videos of such.

Hangouts even works.

I said over on the forums I can respect their need to protect proprietary code... Samsung does this all the time with TW.

They could at least release kernel source.
[Ornate TrueSmart] Zuber:
FYI: The Google Play Thread has been reinstated. It was accidentally deleted instead of being locked (confession and apology on the site). No big conspiracy...

http://www.omate.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=169

Hi Lokifish,

I know we had a 'little disagreement' (and I still don't think your skills are best suited to being a moderator), but no hard feelings, and sorry you aren't going to be on the Omate forums. Hope you change your mind...

Hi ClearD,

I look forward to the fix all Omate issues with One button solution :)
[Ornate TrueSmart] ClearD:
Shouldn't be too hard, I just pray we have Fastboot enabled by default. That'd make my life a lot easier. :)