yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Ornate TrueSmart] gerhardo:
The silence for sources and ROM development is one thing. There are explanations for a delay there, Omate may have to "define the position" before answering. On the other hand, they did not hesitate to claim official Google Play support... As Loki states, this should be simple to answer.

(To get Google Play running on the dev editions at least is probably a minor issue here. For the consumer market that is another issue. I do not want to discuss that here.)

Without root or custom ROMs, the TS is pretty much a paperweight for me.

I still have hope for 4.4 and official Google Play: I have not found the Compatibility Definition for 4.4 yet. If it is late, Google may announce a "xsmall" category as an additional announcement. (The probability is low.)

For app development the silence is more strange and concerning. The lack of information holds development back. The first reviews will be done shortly after the shipping and the usefulness could be very limited. The MotoActv was killed by the first reviews, even if it soon was improved after the launch.

My explanation is that Omate as a startup has subcontracted everything. Even the tradeshows have been attended by Laurent and possibly Nick only. The other only named employees are thadeez at the forum (marketing) and Eminence at relations/marketing. Other attendees at tradeshows have not been named or are officially working at other companies. For all that I know, Omate (and Rocki) could be facades. This does not mean that they are frauds or fail to deliver the HW, but that they do not have any flexibility.

While it is not strange that the resources are low, Omate (i.e. Laurent) should have addressed this. Omate early said that a kernel developer could show up here at xda. My conclusion is that the subcontracts are completed, there are no one working with neither kernel/ROM or that Omate has fixed price contracts (where the contractors are not interested in net fame). If this is similar for OSmart companion and other SW development will be in a similar status. This will likely mean that giving Omate a wishlist is useless and that the SW will not use the HW potential.
[Ornate TrueSmart] mghtymse007:
After reading the last few pages of posts and the recent announcements from TS, has made me lose a lot of steam on this device. Without the support of xda (ROM and App), I personally will back out and request a refund. One of the reasons I pay top dollar for new tech, is I know if a tweak or fix is required... 9 of 10 times I can find it here. At this point, I do not believe any newcomer company/product can truly grab a foothold without xda sanction. With all due respect to development delays, when I invested...I was convinced by TS statements that the GPL was done. Says a lot about a company and those who run it.
[Ornate TrueSmart] kuronosan:
Like I said. This device has amazing potential but I'm seriously beginning to doubt there is a dedicated "software team" so much as "some guys stepped up to help".
[Ornate TrueSmart] mghtymse007:
Potential is one thing... windows mobile HAS potential. Without content...you are done. First rule I learned in the tech biz, CONTENT IS KING.
[Ornate TrueSmart] Lokifish Marz:
(gonna keep it short)

Thanks for the congrats and thanks for your post.

What's odd is I still had moderator rights and access after that time/date which should not have even happened. There may have been a miss understanding on both sides, a phpbb setting may have hiccuped but either way what's done is done and I will edit that post when I have the chance.

Regarding some of the things like the new wait time, answering questions regarding "can I do x in the mean time" if everybody on the mod team was on the same page it would be a big help. Blowing off things like the new wait time were still going on as recent as yesterday.

I know you guys are stuck having to wait for Omate on some things. We both know that lines of communication could be better. Their holding back has been detrimental as shown both here and in the Omate forum. To be honest, any major player looking intently at the TS will have already pledged on KS or got a pre-order, Samsung already said they ordered some. They do this all the time to each other.

Once things settle I'll am more than willing to talk about my involvement over there. If it turns out that Omate does not want me back over their that is their call and I would respect the decision.

To everybody else that may be upset, as a former mod and senior mods there I will say this. The mods and senior mods are stuck in the middle. This has been a source of major frustration and having dealt with a number of OEMs in the past while working for a Tier 1 vendor it set my brain to WTF mode. I think folks should thank Chris for even coming over here and responding. This is above and beyond what folks expect to see from mods.

Gotta go and play with the new one and take lots of pics.
[Ornate TrueSmart] chrisvor:
As I was told, how this works, it's related to two actions. One is that you must be removed from the moderators group (which you did on your own) and then you must be revoked the moderator rights (which the Admin has done after you were not in the mod.group anymore).

Yes we are, but things are getting better. Information started flowing much more quickly now and I think we are moving in the right direction

I will try and influence this as much as I can.

I sincerely thank you for this comment. The situation is far from ideal, and I know you know this as you were also part of the team and experienced it first hand. This is actually what upset me the most, that I've seen posts here that clearly target the mods, as if we are trying to defend Omate from anybody shooting at them, like we have something to gain from it. You know as much as we do that this is not the case. Even after my first post here, which I made purely because I was the target of accusations, got replied with a "don't start your propaganda here" comment... I chose not to comment on that response....

And THAT is WHAT IS ALL ABOUT mate !!! Enjoy the simple and MUCH more important things in life!!! I so miss that part of my life :) My son is 17yrs old now.... :)

Take care my friend, and I hope I have helped clear some things up. It has been a real pleasure talking with you.
[Ornate TrueSmart] Stu|:
Just a side note on the forum permission thing. The default group part is just a visual thing. It changes the colour and group rank if set. The actual permissions are granted by being in the mod group. If you leave/are removed from the group that action resets your default group as well.
[Ornate TrueSmart] fmuser:
Omate is just like most companies and politicians. The way they write is more aligned with a hyper PR type of style. The only good thing with them is the fact that their product has been seen and played with in the wild. They obfuscated regarding Google Play but I already assumed that right from the start. Many would say lie :) In terms of moderators, I really don't think you were suited in that position Loki. You're too technical and impartial. It's either they shoot themselves in the face with you there or they can use the other moderators to do their PR stuff. The moderator's job, for now, is really to handle the PR and keep people calm.

Sorry to hear you aren't moderating anymore Loki. I think it's a good move for you though. If you stayed long enough, you may just decide to dump the device and we and you would be the losers in that scenario.

This is MF :) I was a big AD&D geek. I prefer my Magic User persona :)
[Ornate TrueSmart] Zuber:
Now this looks interesting. Specific support for SmartWatch (Galaxy Gear) in KitKat. So if there is specific support for SmartWatches, where does that leave Google Services ?

http://www.microfinancemonitor.com/...c-payment-remote-bluetooth-and-more-features/

EDIT:

Found the orig. artical. Doesn't acually mention the Gear, so not so clear...

http://jessicalessin.com/2013/10/31/androids-next-targets-wearables-tvs-low-end-phones/

---------- Post added at 04:49 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:38 AM ----------

+1 Sorry Loki, I'm going to agree on this one :) Loki for "Chief Technical Adviser"...
[Ornate TrueSmart] chrisvor:
Of course everybody is entitled to his opinion, nothing wrong with that, but I totally disagree with that, and frankly I feel quite offended.

Firstly the moderators are *NOT* "doing their PR", never did and never will. We are just a bunch of people willing to spare some of our free time, exactly like Loki did initially, and I'm sure that if you were(are) backers of this project on Kickstarter and you were asked to participate and could spare the free time, you would also feel honoured and say yes.

The moderators were *not* picked by Omate. Omate asked all the "active" backers in the comments section of Kickstarter to suggest people that should be "thanked" by Omate because of their continuous support and contribution in the comments section of Kickstarter. *ALL* the moderators were on that list. It's the BACKERS that selected the moderators, not Omate. If you were active in the KS comments section you would already know that.

The moderators job right now in the forum is firstly to help people with their questions, to the best of their abilities, and if they don't know the answer to relay the question to Omate for official replies. There is no product out yet, so nobody can give a "hands-on" reply (yet).

After the "angry" posts started, our (the moderators) job became more like "keep the peace".... We started becoming like the United Nations in a war-zone.... Not to defend either side, but just to keep things civil. And try to make the "angry" posts not interfere with the true purpose of the forum which is to help newcomers find answers, and people to discuss on ideas.

And I'm closing to say that I totally AGREE that Loki is "technical and impartial" as you say. That alone makes him VERY suitable for a moderator there, in the technical sub-forum. We are all impartial, we are not Omate staff, nor are we paid or rewarded by Omate in any way. We just believe in this project very much and are happy to help in any way we can.

Thanks

Christos
[Ornate TrueSmart] Lokifish Marz:
That KitKat article is a very referenced rumor list that came out before the official announcement but skillfully on the same day. It pulls from yet another rumor list that was publish by the WSJ I believe that claimed to have secret internal Google documents that said the not onlt the GEM was going to be announced on the 31st but wearables support. Well I think we know that that didn't happen.

I've been extremely busy the past few day as some of you know but have still been looking when time permits. All I can say at this point is that I have found nothing that supports rumors of either a custom Play Store, official KitKat support or a special version of Android for smartwatches.

"Chief Technical Adviser"? Sorry man. That position doesn't exist.

[MENTION=419993]chrisvor[/MENTION] we both know the limitations and stress you guys are under and agree it's not a PR thing for you guys. I have left the Moderator chat open, and still go there from time to time, for a place to vent, have some fun and so on. Seeing I'm still hosting it I declare it a "free zone" where what is said there stays there.

In all fairness to Chris I may have left the moderator group. Some of the functions/permissions are a bit wonky on the board and I was also exploring exactly what worked and what didn't at that time as well. There is still that odd bit about having access even after it should have reset. That should never happen for fairly obvious security reasons.
[Ornate TrueSmart] Stu|:
With phpbb it is also possible to assign specific permissions to a user, but that isn't done very often for various reasons mainly it causes a massive headache when things change which is what it looks like to me. Anywho, back to topic.

I've been checking every day for the cdd docs for 4.4 just to see if there is a hint of something allowing omate to get the ts certified for play services. Not a big deal for us as we'll have root but I am also interested in seeing what google thinks is acceptable for a wearable device. You'd think once people start getting the nexus 5 in their hands that people will be digging in the play store apk for hints of wearbables as well as the code to see if there are other changes that would help support devices like the ts which there must be if it is available in 4.4.
[Ornate TrueSmart] shammc:
where can I preorder this smartwatch and possibly still receive some sort of discount.

If I do preorder from the image site when do you think I will have it on my wrist (UK).
[Ornate TrueSmart] chrisvor:
I am very glad that you agree Loki, I think now the real picture has been given by both me and you, so I consider that people here now don't hold us moderators in the Omate forum like we are enemies of the community. On the contrary we are in the same camp and we want to help this succeed as much as you do.

Thank you for clearing that up Loki, I would hate to find out that somebody kicked you out, I'm glad that this is now clear to. Subject closed :)

Again you have my full appreciation and thanks for all that you contributed so far in the official forum, and I really do hope that this will continue to be the case.

Thanks again :)

Christos

---------- Post added at 03:29 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:27 PM ----------

Omate are currently preparing for the shipment of the first batch of October Developers edition. We already have a 2-week delay, so unless something changes, we expect the first batch to be shipped until Nov 15th. Then there's the November batch followed by the December batch. If those schedules are kept, then the pre-orders should be ready to be shipped within January 2014.
[Ornate TrueSmart] haybill:
Whilst the discussion about who is and isn't a moderator may well be pertinent to you guys- surely this is a forum about the product..... full stop.

Sorry if I have misunderstood.

Thanks for the despatch date into.
[Ornate TrueSmart] chrisvor:
That is indeed correct haybill, I apologise for taking the space here, but I needed to clear and clarify the facts and our position. I consider the matter resolved and will not return to it :)

Let's move forward and to the important stuff :)

Thanks and I apologise

Christos
[Ornate TrueSmart] haybill:
Apologies not needed.

No worries.
[Ornate TrueSmart] ClearD:
I wonder if the imei tool given to us devs is actually capable of repairing it if we screw it up... I've never seen an actual imei tool before this one.

Sent using XDA-funded carrier pigeons
[Ornate TrueSmart] spinedoc:
Is the version that is currently available for preorder a developer/rooted edition?
[Ornate TrueSmart] kuronosan:
No.

You received tools already, Clear? I haven't received anything. :(
[Ornate TrueSmart] Lokifish Marz:
I have a set of the tools as well. Try emailing Omate.

As far as the flashing tools go, they should be a last resort restore method. Once our device get in and all of us can establish "best methods", I'll try to find the time to merge the various resources and info into a compendium thread like I did for the Photon. Actually I'm going to make a placeholder post/thread right now.
[Ornate TrueSmart] Lokifish Marz:
And now that 4.4 update and unanswered question regarding bootloaders may have become more complicated. I would like to see dm-verity used and retained for end user security but it would mean a certification program for devs would be required.

Google Taking Aim at Device Modders in Android 4.4 KitKat

Android docs regarding dm-verity on boot
[Ornate TrueSmart] ClearD:
I'd personally rather it not be used at all, because it complicates everything for lots of us backyard modders. :(

Sent using XDA-funded carrier pigeons
[Ornate TrueSmart] kuronosan:
Google needs to knock this crap off.
[Ornate TrueSmart] ClearD:
No doubt, I'll probably have to sell something myself. Don't know what yet. Lol
[Ornate TrueSmart] ronaldheld:
The Neptune pine is up now for pre order.
[Ornate TrueSmart] vectron:
I know you're tempted, but remember - you need both of your kidneys!!! :D
[Ornate TrueSmart] speedyink:
I've backed a Developers version too, so I have an SDK available too since I don't dev.

At the $200 kick starter price it's $140 less than the base Neptune. And they have real pictures of actual devices, which leads me to believe they can fulfill their October promise. I seriously doubt the Pine will be released this year, they still only have concept renderings. Plus I always like sooner rather than later =P

Until Sept 20 the Omate is $199, so that's almost a $140 saving for a product you'll receive months sooner. While I like the Neptunes design and some of the features, the main drawback for me is size. At 1.6" the motoactv is already big on my wrist. I can't imagine having a 2.5" device on there...Anyone seen the old 2.5" Z1 (or wega) watch on someones wrist? It's monstrous. That's why the Omate is my choice, at 1.54" it's a very similar size to the Motoactv, which is big enough on my small wrist.
[Ornate TrueSmart] vectron:
Not trying to be pessimistic, but I don't believe any popular KS tech projects were ever delivered on time. The schedule will always come down to contract manufacturer and long lead components managed by supply chain, not to mention your production yields, quality testing, etc. I would love to be proven wrong, and hope I will, but October release data is way too optimistic. Just hope it will be released and available before Omate strikes a deal to sell it in AT&T store lol!!! I know a number of people who were pissed when BB started to carry Pebble while they were still waiting (for over a year) to get their white kickstarter edition Pebble.
[Ornate TrueSmart] speedyink:
Lol, I'm trying to be optimistic here. Either way, they got their s**t together it seems and they seem really dedicated to their release schedule. I agree, October seems soon, but hey, they seem to think they can, so I'll let them try.
[Ornate TrueSmart] Omatetruesmart:
And here we are, thanks for having us! We'll gladly interact with you guys and answer any questions you might have. XDA being a hardcore development community some questions might require our hardcore techs to act as our lifeline but we'll try and give you timely answers!
[Ornate TrueSmart] Stu|:
I can't wait, shame I couldn't back it to get an Dev edition :( I'll have to save up and buy one for myself at Xmas. Nice to see someone from Omate here too. Engaging with the community is always awesome to see.
[Ornate TrueSmart] Omatetruesmart:
Most of the smart watches the TrueSmart is being compared to are of a different class altogether, with different feature sets and intended use. These companies deserve the credit for having paved the road for something bigger, improvement, evolution. The market is just opening up to wearable mobile devices and consumers are ready for a change of mindset. Here is a smart watch that can tuly be called smart, with the ability to install your personal favorite apps from the Google Play store, choosing to connect to your phone via bluetooth or using it standalone, you can even take it for a swim or wear it in the shower...

As for what is expected of the big companies, who knows what they will bring. But we are here now, communicating openly about the development, keeping the community involved and with that we have a solid delivery date we are sticking to.

Ever heard of David and Goliath? We are David, and we're ready.
[Ornate TrueSmart] Jackering:
From what I remember reading they are aiming for the last week of October as the shipping date (I think??)

Omate any chance of getting a look at that UI yet? Will it have basic things like a pedometer on it?
[Ornate TrueSmart] mcteague:
Omate, you tell it the way it is!! Others only design what fits in with their other products, while Omate are listening to us, we and Omate have the power to steer a revolution in smartwatch design as they are independent. I personally can't wait
[Ornate TrueSmart] Neuer_User:
Omate, what is the power consumption of the device? Best give some figures like "all radio off, display off, CPU idle ', then the same with display on low brightness, then display on full brightness, then different radios on (but not connected) etc.

This will help us evaluate, what the device could reasonable be used for.
[Ornate TrueSmart] vectron:
Omate, Welcome to XDA!!!

Regarding comparison, you are absolutely right - there is no comparison since you are in a different category. The problem is that not too many people realize that. XDA community is no longer just for developers, it grew with millions of "consumers" who found this place by searching how to root their phone ;) Look at SmartWatch section on XDA. Over 5 million registered users, and this is the smallest section with a handful of people who are posting in here. A dozen or a few of us understand what is all about, but thousands of others are still clueless about "smartwatch" in general. Another community where I write reviews and active at, AndroidForums, has a few million registered users and not even a section for smartwatches. It kills me to read replies saying "I don't wear watch, so why do I need this" or "why do I need smart watch when I have smart phone.", etc.

My point, big or small company, mainstream consumers doesn't understand smartwatch concept yet and confused by all these KS/Indiegogo campaigns. And with newcomers popping up every few weeks - that whole smart watch momentum is slowing down, thus explanation of why Pebble did so well versus other companies. I can guarantee you, if KS campaign for Pebble started right now - it wouldn't be able to get even 1/10th of funding. Since I was replying to another member, I wanted to point out that amount of funding received doesn't reflect the quality of the product, but rather a timing of market saturation.

But you guys do a phenomenal job with being upfront and detailed. We do appreciate it very much!!! I also noticed a lot of replies from Omate team on various website blogs. That is insane job to keep up with everything.

Good luck!!! ... also, please check your PM ;)
[Ornate TrueSmart] ClearD:
Omate, is it possible to get a copy of the development software even though I'm not yet able to back the TrueSmart? I'm planning to get one when financially able. I also wrote an email regarding the same, but have not yet received a reply. Thank you.

Sent using XDA-funded carrier pigeons
[Ornate TrueSmart] Jackering:
You have a PM.
[Ornate TrueSmart] Lokifish Marz:
I moderate the Omate Developers community on G+. Here's some more detailed specs

OS: Android 4.2.2

CPU: 1.3 GHz MTK6572 dual core

GPU: Mali 400

RAM: 512MB ($20 for upgrade to 1Gb)

Storage: 4GB

microSD: up to 32GB

Display: LG IPS 1.5 inch, 240 x 240 pixel

Battery: 600mAH Li

Standby: 100 hours (still testing active usage)

Audio: Audio Speaker & Microphone

Cellular:

2G Quad Band: GSM, GPRS, EDGE class 12 EDGE Multi-Slot Class 12 900/1800/ 850/1900

3G Mono Band: UMTS, HSDPA, HSPA, HSPA+ 7.2Mbps/5.76Mbps 2100 (Europe) or 1900 (US)

Wifi: 802.11b/g/n

Bluetooth: 4.0

GPS: A-GPS

FM: Yes

Camera: 5MP

Sensors: Accelerometer, magnetometer

Other Features: Google Play Store, Over-the-Air (OTA) system firmware updates, IP67 waterproof and dustproof, vibration alert, rootable, supports CWM recovery, SDK for developers
[Ornate TrueSmart] ClearD:
Excellent! I'll use this on my smartwatch comparison page. Up-to-date stats are always appreciated. I guess I need to wait until it's actually released before I can update though, as I don't want anything to be inaccurate. I got an email from Sony when one of their Smartwatch specs was slightly inaccurate lol.
[Ornate TrueSmart] Lokifish Marz:
That's understandable. Seeing that I've given up on ever seeing an upgrade to my two year old phone I'll be in the smartwatch forums more often.
[Ornate TrueSmart] ClearD:
Excellent. If you hear of any system images being released for the Omate, please let us know. I'd love to build a rom for it!
[Ornate TrueSmart] speedyink:
The display is actually an LG IPS TFT LCD. They decided to go with this for outdoor visibility.