yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Ornate TrueSmart] haybill:
If the device genuinely does have waterproofing 'issues' I presume that is grounds for a post purchase 'money back' request, after all it was sold as waterproof.

I will definitely wait to actually see mine before thinking about a refund- and would only ask if it didn't meet sales pitch expectations.
[Ornate TrueSmart] Lokifish Marz:
Regarding the waterproofing thing. Fresh out of the box, water proofing issues should not be happening and is a QC issue. But as far as warranty, I still don't see that as a valid reason to request a refund.
[Ornate TrueSmart] haybill:
Not sure that I follow- surely if the device is sold as a waterproof watch but shortly after purchase ceases to function due to water ingress- then, under those circumstances the manufacturer should repair or replace??

Unless we are getting confused between repair/replace and refund?
[Ornate TrueSmart] Lokifish Marz:
Sorry, I wasn't clear. Expecting warranty coverage if you open up the TS is not reason enough for a refund. The industry standard for water resistant watches and phones is no warranty if you open it.
[Ornate TrueSmart] ecsk2:
True but what other watch is there out there that you have to open up in order to be able to use all the features of it?
[Ornate TrueSmart] Lokifish Marz:
Tons (something like 20-30 different one) and every one I can find warranty info on says the same thing. Either no warranty for water damage or if you open it you void any warranty regarding water resistance.

Also have to keep in mind that this is technically a phone and not a watch as far as device classification goes.
[Ornate TrueSmart] ecsk2:
Don't get me wrong I am personally not questioning the warranty after opening it, I fully understand that approach, it's a must since otherwise you would be stuck with all kinds of problems. Taking this approach might also help to make sure the owners take more care when closing them Omate back up.

So on these "tons" of watches you have to open up in order to use all their features, why do you have to open them up? I am not a watch person, I stopped using a watch over a decade ago when I moved to a warmer climate and well mobile phones have the time on them anyhow. But I am now waiting for my Omate so I guess I will be wearing one again :)
[Ornate TrueSmart] vectron:
The key here, as Loki pointed out, technically its a phone and not a typical waterproof watch. In my opinion, any smartwatch that runs android, has sim card, and removable micro sd card is really a smart-wrist-phone and not really a smartphone. Pebble, MetaWatch, HOT, Kreyos, Agent are good examples of basic smartwatches. But anyway, as it was stated, Omate TrueSmart is assembled in their manufacturing facility under a proper quality control and guaranteed to be waterproof with corresponding warranty. Once you take the cover off to add/replace micro-sd card, the waterproof portion of the warranty is no longer valid because it's not guaranteed that user will be able to put everything back the way it was assembled at their factory. I agree Omate needs to be very clear about it and encourage it's buyers to think about configuring their device with micro-sd card pre-installed. Also, any updates requiring pulling of the battery will theoretically void waterproof warranty as well, only because they can't guarantee the user will put it back correctly, meaning the gasket/seal will be applied properly and you don't strip the thread by applying too much force tightening the screw, etc. At the same time, you also have to be careful removing sim card panel since its not symmetrical when it goes back due to a slight curve of the watch side.

As a disclaimer, I'm not speaking on behalf of Omate regarding warranty, it's just my interpretation/understanding of it. The point here that regardless of sim card or micro-sd removal, even if you messed up assembling it back - you can still use TrueSmart outside even during the rain or while exercising/sweating or by the pool (not in the pool). It's has a decent splash proof protection for active lifestyle and you don't have to worry about covering it up any time you are surrounded by "harsh" nature elements. It's more than you can say about most of the smartphones which you would never take out when it's raining outside or while afraid of being splashed by the pool.

So if you decide to get smart-wrist-phone device, no matter who makes it, voiding full waterproof warranty is a consequence you have to live with if you decide to take it apart. Just my humble opinion.
[Ornate TrueSmart] ecsk2:
Well I don't know if one can approach this topic like this either, since this isn't a "typical" product. As much as you claim it's technically a phone

I can say that it's not technically your typical phone, right? :)

Again I am NOT debating the warranty or not, just trying to look at this in as logical of a way possible.

I will also say that I had extensive experience with unhappy waiting customers as I started my own company over a decade ago before there was any kickstarters, and funded all my custom products with preorders on forums (automotive products) and things happened and there was delays an there was hundreds of unhappy customers, though I will say that they fueled each other and I have later learned many of them were competitors in disguise. Just saying I can understand both sides of this :)

Well this is where I see your point but I also under promised on my product features and quality (though ended up over promising on ETAs), I never went out with saying lifetime warranty for instance in the "funding stage" but did so afterwards when the product was all in stock and customers had got all their pre-orders. That's where I feel the waterproof or not could have been addressed more accurately, but that's just my own opinion. Personally I don't have a gripe with how they approached it, I also feel that I can handle the assembly of it (after one decade of working as a quality engineer on the product production of mobile phones) so I am not concerned myself.

Fully understand and agree!

Oh you know what I think I really got all this backwards in my head now that I think about it, I was sort of thinking that the SIM card also goes in under the cover, while that's not the case, as you now just reminded me (I did know it just forgot). And yes I've seen in the videos about the cover for the SIM card.

Anyhow, I do take my words back now, since essentially you do NOT NEED to open the back cover up to use all the features as such, only in order to expand the memory which I would look at as an optional feature not a required one (as would the SIM card be).

So yeah scratch most of what I said, I am too lazy to delete/edit it out ;)

I am not very active when it comes to sports but surely use my smartphone in just about any and every setting thinkable and have used it countless of times in the rain and other moist conditions, and even got it replaced under warranty (for other reasons) and without triggering the "moisture indicator" they have in the particular smartphone I use :)

yeah I AGREE :)
[Ornate TrueSmart] vectron:
I actually meant to say "a smartphone" rather than "a phone". Or if you are planning to have it bt tethered or on wifi - it's a wearable android gadget? :) But you know what, we all have different definitions and interpret it in different ways. So, I will step back with my labeling. In my opinion a watch is something with a clock face always on, glanceable without an effort to lift your wrist up parallel to the ground and twist it 45degrees while waiting for 2 seconds for display to come up, triggered by gyroscope action or doing a hard shake to wake it up (read it as an explanation of how OWatchON works ;)). This is not a negative comment, it just how it works to see that watchface, while pass that you have a full android experience of a smart gadget on your wrist which does everything your smartphone can do but on 1.54" screen.

There are always tradeoffs with any swartwatch/smart-wrist/device/thingy you choose. You can have watchface always on with a very basic notification like Pebble and Metawatch or Agent (whenever that one is available), or watch on with additional functionality like HOT or Toq or stepping up with watch on and running some apps like SW2 or forgetting about watch on and going for some true android experience with Omate or Neptune or rooted Gear, or MotoACTV, etc. Of course, with so many choices, decision becomes hard :)
[Ornate TrueSmart] Lokifish Marz:
When I was talking device classification I was talking about industry and regulatory classifications not marketing.
[Ornate TrueSmart] tangcla:
Yeah, I agre - hence a lot of people were asking if the SD card would be preinstalled so we wouldn't have to open it.

We should just stick a WARRANTY VOID sticker over the power button.
[Ornate TrueSmart] ecsk2:
I have always told people that "lifetime warranty" refers to the product LIFETIME, hence when it dies...the warranty is over ;)
[Ornate TrueSmart] haybill:
Yeah, that's quite appropriate- and probably the future, unfortunately.
[Ornate TrueSmart] jewnersey:
Is this still one of the better watches people expect to be released? I'm planning on buying one before March but have not been keeping up.
[Ornate TrueSmart] tangcla:
You may not get it before March :p at the rate things are going!
[Ornate TrueSmart] jewnersey:
Yeah no kidding. I check in here every so often to see if people have started to receive them yet, but it is never the case.

I feel like it will already be in something else's shadow by the time they roll out.
[Ornate TrueSmart] ClearD:
Well... I re-re changed my mind and cancelled the refund now. I figure... at $220 for the 1G+8G model... that's not bad. I figure if I don't like it, there's always ebay. But I'm hoping I'll like it. :)

That, and I've already got time invested into a root tool... anyone have the TWRP recovery image yet? Gonna make the whole process 1-click.
[Ornate TrueSmart] kuronosan:
I have it on my computer and can email it you, or I can send a drive link.
[Ornate TrueSmart] Lokifish Marz:
Here you go.

From one dev to another. I haven't used my Ubuntop enabled Photon since I got the initial MOD built for the TS and it's not like I haven't tried other phones either.

Maybe if things calm down and a couple behind the scenes things improve I may come back.
[Ornate TrueSmart] kuronosan:
I want that firmware update already.
[Ornate TrueSmart] ClearD:
One other thing, do we have the partitions table yet? Can someone run

cat /proc/partitions

for me, in a shell? If using ADB, the command would be

adb shell cat /proc/partitions

and get the output for me? :) Need to know where to point things.
[Ornate TrueSmart] ClearD:
As always, you're the man, Loki! That's very odd that recovery isn't in a numbered partition... Instead it's just called "recovery". Never seen that one before. But hey, if it works, we'll roll with it. :)

Sent using XDA-funded carrier pigeons
[Ornate TrueSmart] LisaHaug:
@ Omatetruesmart

I am currently writing my master thesis which involves smart watches. I am going to buy 5 Omate Truesmart to use in my research. In my research I am going to develop an app for the Truesmart. However, after sending a couple of emails to developers@omate.com, I have yet to receive a reply.

So, I was wondering is it still possible to get access to the SDK?

Thanks.
[Ornate TrueSmart] ClearD:
Instead of using the developers email, you could try writing their support email or one of the others perhaps. Surprisingly I have those files and was told I didn't need to sign the NDA by Omate. I have Cecelia's direct email from Omate, but don't want to post it publicly. It took about 24 hours for them to get back to me on my last request.

Sent using XDA-funded carrier pigeons
[Ornate TrueSmart] Lokifish Marz:
But pretty much all those files were on xda before the TS was even announced. I think the only one was the IMEI tool.
[Ornate TrueSmart] jewnersey:
What's your thesis?
[Ornate TrueSmart] kuronosan:
I know Laurent's private e-mail. :P
[Ornate TrueSmart] mety333:
I got to talk to Laurent at CES.

He is a great guy we talked for a while and he was excited i funded the developer edition on kickstarter.

Chrome Reader app will officially have a specific version for omate smartwatch once I receive it.

took a picture with him and he gave me a shirt.

Thanks Laurent (:
[Ornate TrueSmart] haybill:
Did he give you any clues as to when you might receive your Developer Edition???
[Ornate TrueSmart] matejdro:
Just wondering how well does Omate works as companion?

So I mean no sim card and all connectivity except BT off. But bluetooth would be connected to smartphone 24/7.

Can it forward notifications from smartphone? Can you answer calls from smartphone and talk? etc.
[Ornate TrueSmart] vectron:
Still work in progress. I haven't seen any updates for the app, and it still buggy. Btw, the interview Laurent gave to Smartwatchfans kind of stated his main focus is standalone application. I guess that explains why all the notification development is done by Kurt who is a just a fan/developer rather than someone working directly for Omate.

PS just pinged Kurt again, will see if he has any updates.
[Ornate TrueSmart] Lokifish Marz:
Omate TrueSmart on XDA Developers TV
[Ornate TrueSmart] vectron:
Now look at you, even mentioned directly by Laurent in the interview :) Good job!!!

PS did you get my pm?
[Ornate TrueSmart] Lokifish Marz:
Been featured on a number of sites before but never mentioned directly in this manner. Feels good.

Got it.

Most of the Kurt's stuff is still in development. He has a real job so he can't dedicate a full 40hr week to the apps.

The general rule is no OTA's for custom ROMs unless specifically Ok'd by the dev. The process is usually as follows;

OEM sends out OTA

Devs "capture" OTA and incorporate it into their next ROM release.

Devs fine tune their next release and makes it available for download.

Merging my fixes into official is still up in the air so no idea if that will happen or not. There's still a number of things that need to be discussed in that area.

As far as the Exchange Server security policies. Is it root they have an issue with or custom firmware? I could always release an unrooted but optimized firmware for folks that need it that on the surface is identical to stock.
[Ornate TrueSmart] vectron:
Yeah, I figured that will be the way to go.

Regarding Exchange, after I had to do factory reset on my Note 2 (after that 4.3 update), instead of using Samsung Exchange Server email account (which crippled my phone by encrypting everything on it), I found a very simple solution by using TouchDown app to access Exchange Server from my work. It's the only official program to support it, though kind of pricy for $20 since they probably have to pay licensing fee to M$. Pretty much now I can root my phone and have Exchange access independent of security setting.

Ok, I guess next step is to wait for the official and hopefully final (to a degree) OTA and then wait for you to do your magic!
[Ornate TrueSmart] Lokifish Marz:
ANYBODY with a U.S. 1900 TS please post your baseband and if 3G is working or not. Baseband can be found in Settings/System/About/
[Ornate TrueSmart] tangcla:
I'm not following what the issue is with Exchange server... but would this be something you need?

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=1749921
[Ornate TrueSmart] utmoose:
have they actually started shipping these to the US yet?
[Ornate TrueSmart] mety333:
He said they cleared the FCC that day.

They should be shipping it right now pretty much.
[Ornate TrueSmart] hus3695:
Who said this?
[Ornate TrueSmart] haybill:
OK--any ideas, was he referring to USA or World Wide?

Incidentally, the video made by TK of XDA was quite interesting, though it would have been nice to be able to see the device a little clearer--or maybe I'm just being picky.

---------- Post added at 05:44 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:55 PM ----------

Monsieur Laurent, I presume.
[Ornate TrueSmart] tkdsl:
Hey Haybill,

I am making a video for Thursday for XDA with a better close up video of the device from CES.

I will also be doing on the fly videos for this week, as I will be shipping the watch out to the next Dev soon.

PM me if you need to see anything special.

Cheers

---------- Post added at 02:56 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:54 AM ----------

Laurent Le Pen told me at CES 2014 last Wednesday that they cleared the FCC.
[Ornate TrueSmart] Lokifish Marz:
Add one more U.S. version with the same baseband (this now makes three so far). Waiting to here back on if 3G works or not. In the meantime, I've been able to do a direct comparison between the 2100 and 1900 build.prop. Except for the firmware being newer (no surprise) the only difference is the following at the very bottom the build.prop;

ro.adups.fota.device=TrueSmart_1900

ro.adups.fota.version=TrueSmart-20131219-1649

This would indicate that it is on a different OTA server which is good news. Still doesn't change that U.S. 1900's were given out with non-working 3G support.

(I missed this initially because I was looking at the Android device ID's and not the OTA ID's. Normally the Android device ID is different between region versions)
[Ornate TrueSmart] kuronosan:
I wonder if a build prop edit would work...
[Ornate TrueSmart] LisaHaug:
Smart watches in ubiquitous environments.
[Ornate TrueSmart] LisaHaug:
Really?...strange. So you could actually share the files?^^ I'll try some of the other emails on their website first. But if 48 hours passes without any reply, would it be possible to get her email? (pm or email me?) Thanks anyways.
[Ornate TrueSmart] Lokifish Marz:
Except for the IMEI tool all the files can already be found on xda.
[Ornate TrueSmart] haybill:
Thanks for that, looking forward to your next video.

PM sent.
[Ornate TrueSmart] MRFERRARI23:
I'm a backer from N.Y. who still hasn't received a watch and it's getting to the point that my patience is running thin. Everyday I play the.. hope I get home and it's in my room game. I have Google glass and I almost feel like canceling the watch.

Sent from my HTCOneMax
[Ornate TrueSmart] trent999:
Since it looks like the US 1900 version will not be able to connect to any cell data network faster than at Edge (2g) speeds, as shipped, you might want to apply for your refund now rather than during the rush.
[Ornate TrueSmart] haybill:
There are many folks, like yourself and myself--in exactly the same position--this is the usual way of Kickstarter Start-Ups--some are potentially much slower than Omate--not making excuses but we can either be patient, or go for the refund--and possibly feel pissed a few weeks later.
[Ornate TrueSmart] Lokifish Marz:
Even after showing that 1900 was no enabled, Le Pen's position on it was as follows;

"The antenna and the PA of the US version are fine tuned on US 1900MHz band as it is the only one covered by both AT&T and T-Mobile but depending on your location you may not be covered. ﻿"

Needless to say, the person reporting the issue lives in an area surrounded by 1900MHz towers. It was also confirmed by others with U.S. 1900MHz TrueSmart's that their's had no 3G either even though they were in 1900MHz coverage areas. They do not have the correct baseband for 1900MHz support. This could have been fixed very quickly if firmware was publicly accessible and a patched firmware or even just the proper baseband was uploaded.
[Ornate TrueSmart] haybill:
Not being fully 'au fait' with the problem and the possible repair- how much of this is purely an Omate mistake as opposed to a Mediatek firmware problem??
[Ornate TrueSmart] Delano.888:
They already actually HAVE an office in the Netherlands, they confirmed that. Now only they have to ship from there, which I hope they will.
[Ornate TrueSmart] funky0308:
Oohh...

In that case they probably will.

I didn't know that...

Sorry then and thanks for a great news ;)

I mean, to have ability to saves us some money and not do that?!

That won't be cool...

And your cancellation of buying/supporting will be justified.

If they need support for this I'm sure many supporters would pay extra 5-10$ and they would raise a lot of money for shipping, office maintenance and some other expenses.

Tnx again, now I have a hope it'll not be 300 but 230$ :D
[Ornate TrueSmart] kuronosan:
Something something eels something something hovercraft. Спасибо.
[Ornate TrueSmart] Lokifish Marz:
The Martian Imperium's orbital weapons platform will be with you shortly. Please hold.

In other news:

The general feed back on the Samsung Gear and Qualcoom Toq have be less than stellar. Shortly after they were plastered all of the news the TrueSmart saw a surge in backers.

Apple stupidity aside most the comments I have read have been "meh" at best and "I can't believe I waited for this garbage" at worst. There have been a few "OMG" comments but those tended to change when made aware of the TrueSmart. I personally found them to be lackluster knockoffs of existing devices.

This bodes well for the Omate team and can't wait to see what the next few days brings. Even though the TrueSmart may not get days of use from the battery that more of a failing in battery tech than the device. If Omate supports the TrueSmart for an extended period of time, works with independent developers to implement improvements and later releases newer versions I would expect to see this change.
[Ornate TrueSmart] speedyink:
I noticed this as well, things are looking good for Omate!
[Ornate TrueSmart] tangcla:
I should still expect at least a day or two out of it... is that too much to ask?
[Ornate TrueSmart] Lokifish Marz:
The TrueSmart is for all practical purposes a dual core smartphone with a small screen. Even the supposedly highly optimized Moto X would only get about 240min of talk time with the screen off on a 600mah battery before it completely dies. Standby time on a Moto X would only be 155hrs on a 600mah battery as well.

Even after devs like myself tune the hell out of it would need to draw less than 25mAh at all times to get even a full day before 0% battery. Push that to two days and your down to 12.5mAh. This is a level that folks are lucky to get in deep sleep mode which is one step above off and below sleep mode in draw.
[Ornate TrueSmart] kuronosan:
Do you think it's possible to tweak it with smart reflex?
[Ornate TrueSmart] tangcla:
I should say, a couple of days as a tethered device - don't need the radio functions for what I need it for. But that's just me.
[Ornate TrueSmart] Lokifish Marz:
The 100 hour standby is the same as your phone sitting on a desk doing nothing and I estimate the talk time as a standalone around 180-240 mins. This puts it just shy of the Jabra Talk BT headset in performance.

I also think that in tethered mode with cellular radios off, the battery life would be better as BT draws less power than cellular radios. I won't give and estimate on battery life as using one Android device as a BT headset/remote for another Android device is fairly new to the industry.

If I were you and in a position to afford it, I'd suggest getting one and seeing what us devs come up with. If it doesn't suit, you will probably make money if you sold it or at least break even.
[Ornate TrueSmart] Lokifish Marz:
Omate TrueSmart wiki and FAQ
[Ornate TrueSmart] tangcla:
I've already backed it :)