yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Ornate TrueSmart] kuronosan:
Just an update the engineer models do not come with clockwork, but a stock recovery capable of flashing update.zips.
[Ornate TrueSmart] Lokifish Marz:
Not sure if they will allow for unsigned though. :(

It is however an engineer model so we will still have to wait and see.
[Ornate TrueSmart] kuronosan:
Troubling to me that we haven't heard s single thing about FCC approval.
[Ornate TrueSmart] ClearD:
I'm betting we can build cwm for it though.

Sent using XDA-funded carrier pigeons
[Ornate TrueSmart] Neuer_User:
The FCC has a two week backlog. So, I guess Omate should get the cert by mid of November, which coincides with the current estimated shipment date.
[Ornate TrueSmart] jaskru:
That would be great....
[Ornate TrueSmart] kuronosan:
Wrong.
[Ornate TrueSmart] iraqigeek:
Anybody familiar with the FCC certification process?

I asked Le Pen today how come the TS filing are still not available online, since tech sites thrive on hunting such docs and he says the filing becomes available only after they do initial testing.

How long does it usually take for the FCC to carry said testing after a filing is submitted?

Omate's comments so far had led us to believe the filing was submitted before of the US Government shutdown and they're only waiting to receive their certification and FCC ID :\
[Ornate TrueSmart] kuronosan:
You submit online and it costs a lot of time and money and paperwork. Testing does NOT begin until they receive the final test model.

We're looking at a mid November approval at the earliest. That's IF they have filed all the paperwork.

Worst case is we don't see it stateside until end of December, and that's for October developers.
[Ornate TrueSmart] iraqigeek:
I'm not asking about costs.

I'm asking about the usual time frame between filing and initial testing being done. Or does the device need some sort of pre-approval through the filing process before it can be submit for testing?

I guess we'll eventually know when it gets certified, but Le Pen's words today mean the TS has yet to be tested.

Personally, even though I'm in Europe, I only want a FCC certified TS, if only for the comfort of knowing SAR levels within safe levels, and it adheres to the frequencies its supposed to adhere.
[Ornate TrueSmart] kuronosan:
2-3 weeks after submission, as long as it passes initial tests.
[Ornate TrueSmart] iraqigeek:
The time between submission and initial testing is specifically what I am asking about. Omate and Le Pen have repeatedly insinuated they submitted the TS for certification before the shutdown. Now Le Pen is saying they have not passed initial testing yet.

Still, thanks for the info. This means that even if they pass initial tests this week, we're still looking at early December at the earliest before they begin shipping.
[Ornate TrueSmart] kuronosan:
If they submitted it before the shutdown, by mail, it adds about a week but usually as long as documentation is in order they begin testing ASAP. Worst case scenario has us waiting until January, because it really depends on when they submitted. The most I've heard it takes is about 3 months post-submission.
[Ornate TrueSmart] iraqigeek:
So, if anything, they're shooting themselves in the foot by downplaying how long FCC certification will take.

Googling a bit about the

actual

process

, it seems most of the work, including all actual testing, is done by independent (but certified) labs. The FCC's role, at least in the initial filing process seems minimal. Not sure if those independent were also closed during shutdown though.
[Ornate TrueSmart] kuronosan:
They likely wouldn't have, since they're independently contracted. Basically the shutdown only affected scheduling, testing, and filing.
[Ornate TrueSmart] Zuber:
So would you have the independent tests done and then submit the findings to the FCC or would the FCC themselves arrange the independent tests after receiving the application ?

Just wondering if the tests themselves might already be done, just waiting for rubber stamp exercise (being optimistic here).
[Ornate TrueSmart] kuronosan:
Application before tests because the products need an FCC ID.
[Ornate TrueSmart] Lokifish Marz:
That's the exact reason I requested an FCC ID. Even if there wasn't a device ident yet a submitter ident is all that we needed.
[Ornate TrueSmart] vikemosabe:
Yeah, but they're pretty shady on any actual answers with substance.

I'm beginning to believe that they didn't submit until they said word one about it a few weeks ago.
[Ornate TrueSmart] iraqigeek:
That's both funny and stupid at once. No matter how hard they try to hide it, it will come out once they get certified and everybody will know the exact date the application was originally filed.

For a startup looking to get venture funding to expand, they sure aren't conducting themselves in a trustworthy way. I hope they don't talk like that to potential investors...
[Ornate TrueSmart] chowski:
Refund ...

Hi all,

Sorry if this is not the right place to post this, please remove it if so.

I am seriously considering revoking my backing for the Omate TS (2 of them) given the events that have occurred. Some examples are;

(a) Google Play Store / certification

(b) Delivery date slippages

(c) Worst of all, lack of transparency and communications

Has anyone else tried contacting Amazon Payments and received your money back successfully? I won't bother checking with Kickstarter because they probably refer me to Omate or Amazon ..

Thanks in advance ..

Cheers
[Ornate TrueSmart] vikemosabe:
I'm almost positive you won't get any satisfaction, but feel free to try.
[Ornate TrueSmart] iraqigeek:
The long and short of it, there are no refunds. Kickstarter pledges are not legally binding, and are not technically orders. So, you have no consumer rights because you did not buy anything, certainly not a product. You can try to contact Omate and ask nicely, but I doubt you'll find a hearing ear.

As for the points you raised:

a) The Google certification issue came to light 12 days before the campaign ended, and was heavily pounded by many of us commenters during the KS campaign. So, while Omate never acknowledged the issue properly, it wasn't hard to find about if you dropped by the comments section a few times before the campaign ended.

b)Delivery date changes are almost the rule of KS campaigns. Its not exactly you were promised you'd have the watch by any specific date.

c) Sometimes I like to believe if it weren't for the fanboyism of some of the backers (and some of Omate's own mods), they would have been pressured into getting their communications straightened before the campaign ended and they would have learned their lesson. Anyway, Omate is progressing towards shipping, despite all the PR nonsense.
[Ornate TrueSmart] chowski:
Thanks for your response.

I have been following comments closely on the Kickstarter, Omate forum and XDA as well so I am very aware of the issues and while I was initially optimistic, event after event has led me to have less and less faith in the Omate team's ability to deliver what they initially promised ..

Don't be too harsh on the moderators, most of them are backers like ourselves (remember that famous sociological experiment of using students as prison wardens and prisoners to see what happened?) .. they were doing their best given the limited information they had as well.

Just hoping to find out if anyone else has tried asking for a refund and gotten it .. I know it's a long shot

Cheers
[Ornate TrueSmart] mghtymse007:
If ordered post kickstarter, refunds should be no problem... right?
[Ornate TrueSmart] Stu|:
Yes, you have pre ordered it.
[Ornate TrueSmart] iraqigeek:
This has nothing to do with Omate's abilities. The Google certification issue has always been a no go with all Android versions up to 4.3. No matter what technical or negotiating skills they had on board, the outcome would have been the same.

They could have handled it infinitely better, but thats entirely a communication issue.

I was literally the first person outside of Omate to register, write a comment, and first to get moderator privileges there. So, I know very well what it is for them.

Yes, we/they operated without much guidance from Omate, and with almost no support. However, some are also guilty of letting their enthusiasm get the best of their judgment. At least while I was on the mod team, me and Loki (before he also left) were the only ones raising the importance of addressing concerns in an urgent, timely, and honest manner. And more often than not, our voices would more often than not be drowned by that same over enthusiasm from other mods.

I'm not trying to single out mods, many backers went overboard with their enthusiasm, and there is no shortage of regular members refusing to even consider anything but what was written on the first few paragraphs of the KS campaign. But once some backers became mods, the implications of over-enthusiasm are very different. Mods became the contact points between Omate and backers. Yes, there is only one contact from Omate on the forums. But many of the mods also have the forum admin on G+. Le Pen's profile is also there on G+. Eminence Priestly (their marketing person) is very active on FB. Where there is a will, there is a way.

---------- Post added at 12:14 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:08 AM ----------

Have you contacted Omate and asked for a refund?

If you have and they haven't replied yet, contact Paypal if you paid with Paypal and ask for a refund. Otherwise, contact your bank and see if they can make a chargeback on that transaction.
[Ornate TrueSmart] kuronosan:
The real issue at hand is the few moderators who are so enthusiastic that they don't understand the need for answers.

It becomes a wait for "when the devices are in our hands".

I'm not one of those people that you can just say "hey wait until that shiny device from a company you've never heard of that has been awful at communicating development processes to backers arrives in your hands".

I have told them time and time again that a growing number dissatisfied people well begin to speak up the longer and longer these developers keep their mouths shut.

It has already progressed to the point where people are being kicked out of the plus groups because they are quite angry and just want answers from SOMEONE.
[Ornate TrueSmart] iraqigeek:
Its already beginning to get ugly. Look at the discussion on Le Pen's own profile yesterday and today. If the lack of communication and vague comments continue, it might well spill into the KS campaign comments and probably even tech media :\
[Ornate TrueSmart] kuronosan:
Well, the truth will come out. We'll be able to get a filing date as well as all technical documents (except for schematics) and test results once the FCC approves.
[Ornate TrueSmart] rlrmineiro:
Ok... so i just saw this video and it immediately smells shady as it is a remake of the ios 7 add...!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rT_OmTMwvZI&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Check it out...

Thd watch seems very interesting but i wouldnt put much faith in it...
[Ornate TrueSmart] kuronosan:
Well, that was some very quick progress made.
[Ornate TrueSmart] Zuber:
From Google+ Page.

Some useful info:

Laurent Le Pen

05:27

sorry did not see that one. Dev Edition is fully rooted, you will have access to overall firmware and drivers. We cannot open the full source code but it is not needed to port any app and modify the TrueSmart.

- Will the Dev editions come with ClockworkMod recovery or some other open recovery? Fully open recovery mode for Developer Edition

- WIll the bootloader be unlocked? Fully open bootloader mode for Developer Edition

- Will Omate release source code for the kernel? Some of them will be opened and explained through the SDK.

- Will the source code that Omate will release be enough for the community to create custom kernel versions? Cannot open Source Code but some of them will be opened and explained through the SDK.
[Ornate TrueSmart] Lokifish Marz:
Not an official answer and it's confusing and vague. I should be ashamed of myself for even posting it over there.
[Ornate TrueSmart] ClearD:
I didn't know source code was a "them" and required an SDK...
[Ornate TrueSmart] kuronosan:
This feels like a language barrier thing to me.
[Ornate TrueSmart] Lokifish Marz:
Knowing what we know regarding MedieTek and other factors his reply made prefect sense to me. Then again we also understand the official Google services issue which is more than you can say about some others.

Sent from my MB855 on Martian Imperium Remote Comms
[Ornate TrueSmart] vagelis:
Update...

Project Update #53: Shipping update & Developer Edition SDK

Posted by Omate ♥ Like

After the recent delays we are now to shipping the first units to our backers. We can tell you that we the latest production prototypes, including all changes as per our last update, have passed internal testing and is ready for production. Also the Developer Edition software has been finalized and is ready to be loaded onto the production models. We now have green light for production and assembly to start this monday!

*

Production will run in batches according to the different models, the 512MB/4GB model being the first in line Immediately followed by the 1GB/4GB model for those of you who chose to upgrade. As for shipping we have a much clearer picture now that there is a production schedule. The priority is to launch the developer edition with rooted software followed by the standard edition. *

Here is an up to date working view of the shipping planning: *

1. 512MB+4G (2100MHz EU 3G): Mid Nov

2. 512MB+4G (1900MHz US 3G): Begin of Dec

3. 1GB+8GB (2100MHz EU 3G): Mid Dec

4. 1GB+8GB (1900MHz US 3G): Mid Dec

Developer Edition SDK*

We will be granting developers access to the source code. There are parts that we’re not authorized to grant access to by MediaTek and we will follow up with more details about what’s in and what is not. Theres a fully opened recovery and bootloader, you have full access to the firmware and the rooted version allows you to port any apps and modify the entire interface.*

We look forward to developing TrueSmart further with the Developer community!

Greetings, *

Team Media & Community @ Omate *
[Ornate TrueSmart] iraqigeek:
That update created more confusion than it resolved. Its unclear if they're talking about Dev editions only or all editions. Its still as vague as ever about what will and what won't be released. And still no word on FCC certification.
[Ornate TrueSmart] ClearD:
No word on fcc, but I'm glad they're opening up the bootloader.

Sent using XDA-funded carrier pigeons
[Ornate TrueSmart] jas4711:
M

Yay! What MediaTek components would that be? Any free replacements likely to materialize? It seems like a CM port may be possible? They don't mention the kernel explicitly, but I assume source for that needs to be released.

/Simon
[Ornate TrueSmart] kuronosan:
Essentially what I got out of this is we'll get broken source similar to what Samsung did.
[Ornate TrueSmart] iraqigeek:
The lack of specificity is what makes me unenthusiastic about the latest update. Source could mean anything (like AOSP sources). And their comment about MediaTek parts doesn't inspire much hope.

They know the whole source shebang is about kernel source and yet they don't mention it at all. More kicking the can and sugarcoating IMO.
[Ornate TrueSmart] Lokifish Marz:
MediaTek- All radios, the CPU itself and most of the sensors.

OmniVision- The camera module

Mali- GPU

From this you can expect most of the MediaTek segments to be missing, if not all. OmniVision is a crapshoot. Mali should be fine.

All that together means that CM/AOSP builds are pretty much not going to happen unless we can get source from somebody other than Omate.

Still wondering if I should stir up the pot by posting this "ro.operator.hwmaincamera=ov3660_yuv" over in the Omate forum.
[Ornate TrueSmart] kuronosan:
I dare you.
[Ornate TrueSmart] Lokifish Marz:
Daring a Thark to do something never ends well. :D
[Ornate TrueSmart] iraqigeek:
LOL, seems I gave you the excuse.

What does Omnivision's OV3660 3MP sensor have to do with this?
[Ornate TrueSmart] Lokifish Marz:
That's what is referenced in the build.prop
[Ornate TrueSmart] kuronosan:
Seems like they either sent outdated stuff or a fast one is being pulled.
[Ornate TrueSmart] iraqigeek:
The smallest 5MP sensor on OmniVision's site is 1/4". The OV3660 is 1/5" [MENTION=5366747]3mp[/MENTION]. Me thinks the OV3660 is what is used in the SimValley, which has a 3MP camera.

A 1/4" sensor would most probably still fit comfortably in the TS. So, I wouldn't read too much into that.
[Ornate TrueSmart] Lokifish Marz:
Less than two weeks old
[Ornate TrueSmart] NachTSS:
The simvalley/omate prototype is 3mp I have one on right now.
[Ornate TrueSmart] mcteague:
What's play store like on it
[Ornate TrueSmart] NachTSS:
It seems to work fine and was preloaded so no messing about to get it on there.
[Ornate TrueSmart] mcteague:
I hope its gonna be easy to install on TS
[Ornate TrueSmart] NachTSS:
I hope so too.
[Ornate TrueSmart] vectron:
I'm not sure if I have seen it mentioned before, but is there a notification LED on Omate? Based on some of the previously shown watchfaces, there were icons for email/txt/call notifications. With a watch being off in default state, wouldn't it make sense for a blinking notification led similar to a smartphone to let you know if you received new emails or txt msg or missed a call? Then you can raise your arm up to activate the display so you can see what you missed, and decide to view/respond from the watch or to pull out your smartphone.

If notification led doesn't exists on TrueSmart (I kind of doubt it has it), perhaps we can have one of those stay-awake apps with all black screen and a flashing color dot indicator (similar to another app available for smartphones without notification led).

Either way, I know XDA is a developers community and we have some of the brightest ROM developers here eager to jump in on TS work, but I strongly believe that success of any smartwatch is purely due to consumer friendliness right out of the box, not rooting. As one of the early adapters and every day user of MetaWatch, I can't even imagine a day without smartwatch. That is why I really hope TrueSmart will bring all the smartwatch notification functionality found in other brands in addition to everything else it will offer. Without a doubt I'm drooling every time I see Omate G+ update with new video clips and pictures (last few days was exciting!!!), but I really hope it will still be a top notch smartwatch ;)

Plus, I still kind of scratching my head on how the camera point'n'shoot going to work. As much as I don't like Gear with it's pimple-camera on the wristband, the location of that camera makes sense when you bend your arm pointing camera toward the object, preview it on the screen and take a picture. With TS you have to extend your arm straight to point the camera and you will not be able to see the watch display "viewfinder" when taking pictures. Anybody else thinks it could be inconvenient?
[Ornate TrueSmart] vikemosabe:
I think Omate figured that a vibrate alert would be sufficient to notify you and then you could raise your arm to turn the screen on.

I know that with my Pebble I have never not noticed an alert on my watch because of it vibrating.
[Ornate TrueSmart] Jolest:
Yup!!!

I thought exactly that when I first saw where they put the camera. I anticipate not using the camera much. When I do use it, I predict getting tons of bad shots because I can't easily look at the screen and aim at the same time -or- I don't bend my wrist far enough to get the back of my hand out of the shot. (Imho, biggest obvious functional design flaw in an otherwise great watch...)

I hope they fix this in TrueSmart 2...
[Ornate TrueSmart] alabak2002:
With the camera in that position, I see myself mimicking either Buzz Lightyear or Spiderman (rotating the watch in my wrist)

I hope they could turn the camera 45 degrees counterclockwise, so the position of the hand is more natural The 12 o clcok position would be the best (as in Samsung Gear), so you use the screen like a viewfinder in a more natural way (a vintage Hasselblad on your arm)
[Ornate TrueSmart] markyboy81:
No led but I dont think missing notifications will be an issue.

The stay awake app won't work I don't think as omate decided to go for LCD rather than oled.
[Ornate TrueSmart] vikemosabe:
Why will the display type make a difference?

Well, I just did a little researching and came to the reasoning on my own.

In case anyone else sees this and wonders, the simple answer is this:

LCDs have a light that is always on when the screen is on and it always lights the whole screen.

OLEDs only light the parts of the screen that are not black and therefore save energy.
[Ornate TrueSmart] markyboy81:
With oled individual pixels can be lit with the rest of the screen staying dark thus reducing power. With LCD the whole screen is lit when it's on.
[Ornate TrueSmart] tangcla:
True! Only annoyance with the Pebble is the 5 minute timeout for dismissing notifications is too short at times.
[Ornate TrueSmart] vectron:
Vibrating motor mechanism will draw more current then led alert, but anyway. Also, good point about LCD vs OLED for stay on app support.

---------- Post added at 07:48 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:44 PM ----------

How about a small cap attachment with 45 degree mirror :D
[Ornate TrueSmart] Lokifish Marz:
Consumer friendliness is only part of it. With emerging devices, dev support (both app and ROM) and support for the devs from the OEM also plays a factor. Telling devs to pretty much shut up or they don't know what they are talking about in conflict with the facts will turn folks off. We won't even go into dancing around the issues or responding to issues weeks later like it's the first time they heard of it.

To be blunt, Omate could have owned the market but instead has repeatedly blown off devs and backers, danced around issues and hosed the delivery schedule. Their loss is everybody's loss.

I may help behind the scenes a little bit, like I have already, but other than that I'm out.
[Ornate TrueSmart] skyworxx:
Has anyone heard from the simvalley version of the watch?

They pushed back the delivery date several times and they state now November 15th. Seeing that developer versions of the TS are already out, this date seems possible. The only strange thing, is that Pearl.de (the distributor) still states it has an OLED screen.
[Ornate TrueSmart] iraqigeek:
What is strange in it having an OLED screen?
[Ornate TrueSmart] Lokifish Marz:
The TS hasn't even shipped yet.

1. 512MB+4GB (2100MHz EU 3G): Mid Nov

2. 512MB+4GB (1900MHz US 3G): Begin of Dec

3. 1GB+4GB (1900MHz US & 2100MHz EU 3G): Begin of Dec

4. 1GB+8GB (2100MHz EU 3G): Mid Dec

5. 1GB+8GB (1900MHz US 3G): Mid Dec

U.S. backers are on hold for an undetermined time until they get FCC certification so for example my Oct Dev 1GB/4GB U.S. Edition might not ship til 2014. As far as Pearl goes NachTSS already has the 414.
[Ornate TrueSmart] NachTSS:
Are you sure about that because I have had a simvalley 414.GO/omate prototype for at least 2 weeks now.
[Ornate TrueSmart] cyrilp:
I'm waiting for mine. Could you give us some feedback about it ?
[Ornate TrueSmart] NachTSS:
I will be doing the best I can in my video im going to be making as mentioned in my thread about the device. It will be my first review video tho so dont exspect anything pro grade, that being said it wont be one of them irritating camera allover the place wtf is he saying useless videos.
[Ornate TrueSmart] skyworxx:
The order page clearly states it has an AMOLED Screen:

https://www.pearl.de/product.jsp?pdid=PX1790

Which I find strange, since Omate does not make any watches with an OLED screen.

Since the shipping date is the 15th, I would have thought that simvalley is selling the prototypes as their final product, unless they push back the date in the last minute (which is very possible).