yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Android Apps and Games] bengtan:
Oh, ah, yes, that.

I added a pixel of spacing between the message "blocks" so it looked better when using multi-select.

Most probably (unless I get a lot of complaints from users), it's here to stay ... at least ... until the theme gets re-done.
[Android Apps and Games] bengtan:
8sms: The end of the road?

Hi all,

You may all be interested in this:

8sms: The end of the road?

http://8s.ms/end-of-the-road

Excerpts:

Full post available at: http://8s.ms/end-of-the-road

Comments and responses welcome.
[Android Apps and Games] fivejuantwo:
No problem, I understand like i said its very minor. Sad to see you packing up shop. Could you possibly charge for 8sms like 1.99 or some other amount? Would that help? I'd be more than happy to pay a few bucks to keep it around. Again thanks for all the hard work you've put into this app.
[Android Apps and Games] bengtan:
Nothing's set in stone yet. Let's see how the next week or two pans out.
[Android Apps and Games] DurhamHusker:
That's unfortunate. This app really is the bee's knees if you're looking for simple functionality. I appreciate all the hard work you've put into it.

Ideas:

What percentage of users know about the donation page? Maybe a once only popup alerting users to that dialog? Or once per app update if they haven't already donated?

Have you considered a donation link here in this thread? Maybe in the OP? Maybe in your XDA profile?

I forget if you've considered a parallel donate version of the app in the play store ...

At any rate, I'd hate to see the ap go. I've used 8sms exclusively for a long time now, across multiple devices and multiple versions of Android.

Best of luck to you whatever path you choose!

Jon
[Android Apps and Games] Krunk83:
Damn. I love this app, the development, the support... Really sad to see it go.

OnePlus
[Android Apps and Games] bengtan:
Google doesn't allow free apps to become paid apps. The only way would be to either create a separate "premium" app or have an in-app purchase. In either case, I expect the economics to be about the same as donation-ware (which is mentioned below).

Thanks for the kind words.

Ever since I set up donations within 8sms a few months ago, I've received about $50-70 per month (after Google takes it's 30% cut). This is a negligible amount ... and it's so far below what's needed that even if I tried to optimise donations and got a 10x increase, it would still be too low.

So, no, I don't have donation links in this thread or elsewhere on XDA (I believe most users of 8sms aren't even on XDA nowadays), nor a parallel "premium" version of 8sms ... but I don't think it's going to alter the situation sufficiently anyway.

This is not a criticism of the people who choose not to donate. It's just the economics of the "donation-ware" business model. Unless there's some incentive to make a payment, most people will just default to "no action" ... It's just human nature.

Furthermore, I can't push donations or in-app purchases too hard. Users are used to having free software and (I expect) they'll just drop 8sms and use another messaging app.

The only way I can think of so far which would allow me to make enough money in order to continue developing 8sms ... is advertising. It's something I don't want to do, but if the alternative is to shut down 8sms, then advertising is the "lesser of two evils".

(If I did add advertising, then I'll probably allow them to be removed via an in-app purchase or donation.)
[Android Apps and Games] DurhamHusker:
I think I could live with that ;)
[Android Apps and Games] shoeprano27:
Nooooooo
[Android Apps and Games] Waynehead69:
8SMS End of Road

Damn man, I will hate to see this happen! I really enjoy this SMS app. I think that it's the best one out there. Let us know your decision. Thanks for all of your hard work and effort on a great app.
[Android Apps and Games] andeld:
I prefer the ads if it's the only way in which I can have this app. I have 2 phones, one has ICS and I want to ask you if it's hard to make this sms app compatible with Android 4.0.x. Thanks a lot for all your great work!

LE: i would gladly pay 2 or 3 bucks for this.
[Android Apps and Games] 1droidmod:
Do it!! I dont see any ads anyhow. Been using this app for a long time now..

Thank You very much!!
[Android Apps and Games] tpapa:
Please add a feature or 2, make it the "premium" version and charge $1.99. I'm sure the community would pay it to keep the development going.
[Android Apps and Games] bengtan:
Thanks for the words of support from everyone.

I am going to try the "ads but pay to remove the ads" approach and see what happens. I'll keep this thread updated.
[Android Apps and Games] mario_21:
Hi Beng,

Now when I receive 1 sms, in the notification area there are buttons Reply, Read and Call. If I receive more messages, there is no button, there is just number showing how many sms were received.

Would it be possible to add button Read also in case we receive more sms to have possibility to mark all received messages as read? It would be great!

Thank you!
[Android Apps and Games] bengtan:
I can add this to my to-do list, but I would consider it a minor enhancement so it might be a while before I get to it. Thanks.
[Android Apps and Games] phalkon30:
If you feel you're unable to maintain it, have you thought about open sourcing 8sms?

Sent from my SM-G900R4
[Android Apps and Games] bengtan:
Yes, if it gets to the point where I have to shut it down (hopefully I don't have to shut it down), then I will publish the source code.

For now, it's still not certain what's going to happen yet. Thanks.
[Android Apps and Games] bengtan:
For the record, here's an explanation and some information.

The config file mms_config.xml in 88sms and SecMms.apk both specify an mms max message size of 300kB, and a max image size of 640x480. I think Samsung's messaging app doesn't obey the 640x480 limit.

88sms (and probably the Android stock app) does obey the limit, and your images were resized down to fit. However, 640x480 is quite small (in this modern age of multi-megapixel phone cameras), and any resized images are likely to be less than 100kB.

I examined it, and decided 640x480 is too small, and raised the default max image size to 1280x960 (double the value) ... which seems to work better.

Noted. Thank you.

Noted. Pondering it. Thank you.

Thanks for letting me know it's fixed itself.

Which ROM is that? Version number? I'd be very curious if 88sms is able to get group messaging working on a ROM which doesn't support it yet. Which leads me to the next sentence ...

Uh, I don't understand your sentence :)
[Android Apps and Games] hasbrobot:
I appreciate the work you've done, thank you again!
[Android Apps and Games] biggggant:
Sorry that should say sending group messages is fine and receiving into tthe group is intermittent. If I receive a message for a group and I go to view it the message usually ends up in the group but if I'm already in the group or have 88sms open it goes in as an individual message. I am on an at&t i317 the build rom is baseband ucamc3 its 4.1.2
[Android Apps and Games] s.c.s.i.:
Thank you! Fingers crossed! :)

I would gladly pay for a version that was truly "system integrated". Even if your app only got rid of the ridiculous smiley key that replaces the line-break key on the keyboard!
[Android Apps and Games] hasbrobot:
Smiley key is annoying. Glad this has an option to get rid of it.
[Android Apps and Games] zalaros:
Bug report: The pop up window shows only the first message if i have recieved more than one message. I slide left and i see the first message again and again. Only the counter changes.
[Android Apps and Games] CaptainGoSlow:
In regards to the suggestion for the icon to be amended, what about incorporating the 88 into 8M8, but with a style that makes it look like SMS as well still? Same with the Me88aging bit.

Doesn't personally bother me, but thought I'd throw it out there.

No issues (bar the minor one you've noted) found so far with app, cheers again.

Sent from my I9100 running Neat Lite 4.8, part of the Awesome Sauce Project!
[Android Apps and Games] Basche:
I get the same issue.
[Android Apps and Games] hasbrobot:
Can't begin to describe how much I love this application. Blows the rest of the messaging apps away.Thank you for porting and fixing things.
[Android Apps and Games] blackrobin88:
Hey there,

Amazing sms app u got there. If it's not too much to ask, could you add a notifier beside the app icon cuz there is no way Id know if ive gotten a msg after clearing all notifications from the pull down.. hope you will add this function in the future.
[Android Apps and Games] matdestr:
Fantastic app

It's a amazing app! But could you add led control , so that we can decide which colour appears when we have a new message?

Thank You!
[Android Apps and Games] bengtan:
Noted. Thank you.

Thanks for the suggestion, but just a bit too wacky for my liking :)

Noted. Thank you.

You're welcome.

I'd have to think about led control a bit later. 'Still have crashes and mms issues to sort out before I can consider 'wishlist' requests. Maybe ask me again 2-3 weeks later?
[Android Apps and Games] bengtan:
Hmmm ... this is trickier than I thought. Thank you for your patience so far in helping me sort this out.

Does your stock messaging app have mms 'auto download' enabled? Perhaps that is why it seems intermittent ...

If you view the message afterwards but not immediately, your stock app has already moved the message to a group thread.

However, if you are using 88sms, and you click on 'Download' through 88sms, then 88sms is the one doing the download ... and perhaps there is an exception or something wrong preventing 88sms from moving the message to a group thread.

And if you click 'Download' using 88sms while your stock app is auto-downloading in the background ... then it's just chance as to which app does the downloading.

Hmmm ...

Firstly, can you turn off mms 'auto download' in your stock messaging app, and then please test downloading group mms messages through 88sms? We need to understand why its intermittent and prevent it being intermittent otherwise it'll be very difficult to debug.

Then, if (and only if) you do manage to reproduce the problem consistently, can you please get me a logcat during the time when 88sms downloads the message (and presumably tries to move the message to a group thread)?

I suspect there may be a exception happening somewhere which is causing 88sms to fail.

Thanks!
[Android Apps and Games] Orphee:
For led control, light flow do the job :)
[Android Apps and Games] matdestr:
ok thank you!
[Android Apps and Games] bengtan:
[MENTION=4898251]Oscar96[/MENTION]: Can you please pm me or email me (using the registered email address for 88sms)? I'd like your help in investigating further. Thank you.
[Android Apps and Games] matdestr:
led control

Light flow doesn't work on my phone ...
[Android Apps and Games] biggggant:
No problem. I might not have to time to provide any more info until the weekend since I need to have group texting work for work.
[Android Apps and Games] PYCON:
Sorry, a newbie question... The mods include the characters counter during writing a sms ?

:confused:
[Android Apps and Games] bengtan:
Hi,

Currently, the characters counter only appears if you exceed one segment (ie 160 characters in most cases), otherwise it is hidden.

Maybe I should just make the characters counter visible all the time ... it seems to be causing some confusion.
[Android Apps and Games] Mr.Its:
I know we don't agree on much, but putting adverts into 8sms is likely going to upset a portion of your fanbase because there's that many other options now. TextSecure, EvolveSMS, Textra and YAATA just to name a few. None of them display adverts in the conversation list or chat window. So why would people pay to remove adverts when they could just use an alternative? I know that the die hards here might not agree with me, but over on the Google Play store you'll start getting bad reviews. Competitors will use it against you too.

If you want to make money from the app then in my opinion things like Android Wear, Pushbullet and extra emoji styles should be premium features. They're not essential to the person wanting a stock like messaging experience. Also promote Web SMS within 8sms and things like MMS over WiFi on the Google Play store. Add more pictures and show off the white theme too because to some the black theme is ugly as sin.

Of course I'd prefer an open source 8sms, but it's not like I want the app to run into problems. That's just my two cents.
[Android Apps and Games] phalkon30:
Or go the SwiftKey route and sell themes!

Sent from my SM-G900R4
[Android Apps and Games] bengtan:
Just released 8sms with advertisements AND the option to disable them if you pay.

Hi all,

Following on from the recent discussions about the future of 8sms and ways to fund further development ...

I've just released version 1.44 of 8sms onto the Play Store which includes advertisements AND the option to disable them if you make an in-app donation. Let's see how it turns out.

Fingers crossed.

Thank you.
[Android Apps and Games] deciocavallo:
Support to mediatek dual sim?
[Android Apps and Games] Mr.Its:
*Looks at the Play Store* Well, I hate to say I told you so...
[Android Apps and Games] wpcprez:
where are the ads?
[Android Apps and Games] xasbo:
According to one review, at the bottom of the screen. I haven't updated yet, so I can't confirm.
[Android Apps and Games] bengtan:
If 8sms survives, yes.

At the bottom of the message composition screen (but open to suggestions for alternative placements). For new users, ads don't appear until after a few days.
[Android Apps and Games] bengtan:
Well, that was interesting :)

First full day of the new "freemium / ads" approach.

The good:

There's more donations now, but since a large spike was expected anyway, it's too early to say whether the donations will be feasible and sustainable in the long term.

Surprisingly, I'm getting some impressions and revenue with the ads. I guess there are some users who don't mind.

The bad:

I managed to offend a lot of people. There are lots and lots of negative 1-star reviews on the Play Store.

*Sigh*

I don't think there was anything I could have done to please them.

The other good:

At least there are some Play Store reviews which are supportive and trying to defend my choices. It gives me hope that all is not lost.
[Android Apps and Games] culeaalex:
Srsly?!

[MENTION=5181263]bengtan[/MENTION]:

1. www (dot) patreon (dot) com=> I will donate (there are more websites like this)

2. Where can we donate? (I wan't to get rid of the ads) - found it... should be in settings too ;)

3. Why don't u make a pro version for no ads?

I sincerely think 1. is the best for u. Set milestones, and let us pay u for the work done. If 1% of the users will give at least 1$/month I think u will be able to get out of this situation.

P.S.: register here just to post this
[Android Apps and Games] LossyDragon:
Hi Beng,

I thought I would like to contribute on some possibilities on keeping this application alive. I revised my play store rating after some careful consideration about your situation (hopefully the rating changed). However, instead of the ads placed in a not so great location, adding a one-time message about your financial situation can help bring some extra revenue in your pocket, the bad reviews change to good, and this app continues to live.

Some features I would love to see in a donation package;

1. Themes! A material design theme and different color options, instead of ICS/KK stock and dark... This would coax me into buying that in a heartbeat.

2. Built in backup and restore. Now I saw an earlier post about this to use 'other apps'. Adding this option would make the (small) hassle of changing your default SMS to that application a thing of the past.

3. Web based sms service to send/receive messages on your computer within a trusted local network. (Similar to AirDroid's feature, but just for messages).

4. Additional Icons??

As for the 2 star review earlier, a sudden change like will get people riled up, especially when you have novice Android users using this application (parents & friends). They absolutely love the pop-out reply feature, but if an accidental press on the ad opens up that advert, I won't hear the end of "Why does this keep opening", after some careful persuasion to switch away from stock apps. Long Story short, I love this application and been using 8SMS for so long, I don't even remember how I found it.

All the best, hopefully something works out. :)
[Android Apps and Games] Droidphilev:
Hi,

Hmm, i'm on SpiritROM 1.5 (4.4.4) and i can't get 8sms to send sms. Nothing happens and the typed message disappears. Of course it's my default SMS app. I tried 1.43 and 1.44. Tried searching this thread but with all these bloody signatures that everyone uses "sent with tapatalk" etc i was unable to find anything :(
[Android Apps and Games] steanne:
i downloaded the new version and then went in to disable the ads and found i could do so without donating because i had already donated. it's good that it remembered that, but the thank-you-for-donating screen SHOULD have a way to donate again if it's been a while.
[Android Apps and Games] JoeFCaputo113:
Hey bengtan, any chance of some Material Design in this app in the near future?! That'd be soooo sweet. Also some type of theme engine (maybe for a pro version of the app?) would be really nice because the 2 themes are quite ugly IMO haha. Thanks man!
[Android Apps and Games] sudoeste:
I use 8sms for some time now and even traded a few emails with you because the app was having a long loading time on galaxy phones, but let me tell you the location for the ads was simply wrong.

Ads on the message listing? Well... I can live with that. Ads on top of the thread window? Also possibly ok. Below the write box it's a very bad place for it. First it might be against ad rules as it will lead to many miss clicks, second think about technologically under informed people and getting ads in the same screen as possible confidential information (private messages)
[Android Apps and Games] bengtan:
Noted. It definitely can be improved.

I guess it shows I'm not very good at monetising :)

Well, when Android L comes out, I don't think I'll have a choice but to keep up with it.

If the numbers and economics of 8sms work out, then, yes, this would be one of several logical next steps to take.

Noted, please see my comments on ad placement in the immediately preceding post.

Additionally, I'm hoping to talk to Admob staff about this.

I'm open to changing the ad placement. Just have to wait and see what the feedback is.
[Android Apps and Games] bengtan:
Suspending ads for a bit.

Hi,

Not sure where to post this but ...

I'm temporarily suspending* the ads amid concerns that the ad placement might not be the best and may be causing unintentional clicks. This will give me some time to think things through.

* Admob doesn't actually have a way to easily temporarily suspend ads. I've temporarily placed a very high minimum bid in the hope it will stop ad serving.

Thanks all.
[Android Apps and Games] JoeFCaputo113:
Hey [MENTION=5181263]bengtan[/MENTION], turns out that Lollipop has a revamped SMS/MMS client (not Hangouts). Are you gonna re-base the code of this app based on that one?! Thanks in advance!
[Android Apps and Games] bengtan:
Hmmm ... wasn't able to suspend the ads. Admob only allows me to archive the ad units which permanently kills them. I guess they'll have to keep running even though I won't get a new release out (to adjust the ad placement) until next week.

I'm not sure. I'll have to see whether the "revamped" SMS/MMS is just the old AOSP stock messaging app (but updated), or whether it's something new. As usual, you're far far ahead of me.
[Android Apps and Games] bengtan:
An update on the status of 8sms.

Hi all,

I feel a status update is warranted since it's been a week since the "big change" to 8sms regarding monetisation.

So far, the numbers look promising, though I feel it's still a bit too early to call. I've had a big spike in donations in the first few days. This has petered off a bit. On current trends, I think it's very likely I will continue to work on, and improve, 8sms (and I admit it can be improved a lot).

So ... there is room for optimism ... we'll just see how things go in a week's, and a month's, time.

I've taken on board the feedback regarding the ad placement, and moved the ads from the messaging screen to the main screen where, hopefully, they will be much less intrusive.

(For those who are interested, I talked to a Google Admob representative, and they confirmed that placing ads in 8sms at the top of the screen would be against their policy. The reason for this is ... that 8sms uses an action bar with a drop down menu. Ads at the top of the screen (but below the action bar) would be too near the drop down menu and considered too likely to cause accidental clicks.)

I will post further updates as time progresses.

Thank you for reading, and your continued support.
[Android Apps and Games] Nojevah:
I'm not really into the donation stuff. Why don't you create another application (donation mode) ?

If I uninstall the application and if I reinstall it, will I have to donate again in order not to have ads ?
[Android Apps and Games] bengtan:
Creating a separate paid application causes its own problems. Amongst other things, I'd probably lose some proportion of users in the switch, they'd lose all their settings, and I have two applications to maintain instead of one.

I just thought it would be simpler and less hassle for all involved to have a single "upgradeable" app.

> If I uninstall the application and if I reinstall it,

> will I have to donate again in order not to have ads

I'm not sure whether Google Play / Android remembers in-app purchases across uninstalls. I hope it does, but it's something I'll have to investigate and test in order to confirm

However, let me state here that ...

It is my intention that you only have to donate ONCE to 8sms.

If you have donated previously, and if you uninstall and reinstall 8sms, or you install 8sms onto a new phone, and something goes wrong and 8sms doesn't know that you have donated, please email me and I will fix the situation for you.

With that said ... if you (or anyone else who reads this) would like to help me test whether donations are remembered across uninstalls and reinstalls, please email me.

(It's not something I can easily test myself because Google won't let me donate to myself, if you get what I mean.)
[Android Apps and Games] andeld:
Fine apps have the option to "Restore in app purchases". Maybe this would be the safest method to follow. I attached a screen for giving an example, on Plague Inc game.
[Android Apps and Games] Nojevah:
The thing is: I took time to write this, but I think I'm not the only one not to like this donation thing, so people will prefer to uninstall instead of using this "donation button". But maybe I'm just not used to this "in-app purchase" which seems to be more and more present.

I'm not sure to understand why 2 apps would be such a problem. One application with ads for those who want to test. Another application with no ads code + you could push updates earlier on this version and use it as a beta (or RC or pre-release) for the free version.

On your website you would still advertise the free version, and in description you would link to "donation" app.

But it's just my advice and like I said maybe I'm just not used to this "in-app purchase".

PS: I'll see how ads are displayed, and I also need to test other SMS/MMS apps but I should make a donation anyway.
[Android Apps and Games] the_happy_cannibal:
I uninstalled and re-installed from the Play Store and 8sms remembered that I have donated.
[Android Apps and Games] andeld:
Very nice! Thanks.

I've donated too, worth every penny.
[Android Apps and Games] mrgigabyte2002:
I have brought few inpurchased apps and its recorded with google , so no one should have a problem I have reinstall a app I have not use in over a year and it was remember
[Android Apps and Games] SovPanda:
Would be great to have the dark theme's blue colors on the light theme :D