yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Security Discussion] zelendel:
This wouldnt surprise me after reading that they are using free lance hackers to find exploits in different OS.
[Security Discussion] alchemist316:
It could be hidden as something else but I'm with jcase with being skeptical on this it is possible but this would certainly open a new box .. but I may be wrong unless it's built in code that's activated upon a trigger obviously voice wouldn't it leave a trace of this ? Also this audio info would have to be stored at some point right ? Where within the device or streamed out ? ..

Although fbi recruits hackers to code does not mean they would have or would use such ability why not the good ol fashion data mine and acquisition ..

To many questions not answered by bgr how implementation is possible and what exploit ? Obviously there is a lot but to copy record and send phone convo is a stretch .. just opinion :thumbup:
[Security Discussion] lenieto3:
I've been looking around telephony and audio on AOSP for some time, and I'm pretty sure there are no lines for remotely turn on your mic and start snooping what you say, but this is on AOSP, if any other manufacturer would try to add this things and distribute it in a private official rom they could do it and possibly no one will notice, because you can't see their modified code because of licensing and that stuff.

Regarding xploits and things like that I think it is pretty difficult because the voice call audio isn't handled by software, the most of this handling happens on the kernel space or is very hardware related (I can't say that in every phone is like this but the most are), so there's a possibility but I don't think this be a risk.

Anyway, if you use stock roms or private roms you can't control totally what is going on in your phone or what is being done with your info, so the better for avoiding this crazy things is to use roms made by people who don't be afraid of showing what they do and show the code to everyone, something free, or at least open source.

And if your biggest fear is being watched for the big brother, just take calm, we already live inside it...:cyclops::cyclops::cyclops:
[Security Discussion] jcase:
I can accomplish it via an exploit, im sure the feds could as well

Sent from HTC ONE Z using xda premium
[Security Discussion] randywhorton:
The so called, "FBI" microphone hack, (feature) I know of was a infrastructure based option offered to government agencies in cooperation with service providers world wide.

Turning off would be quite a job. The best way to work around such intrusion would be end to end incryption.

---------- Post added at 06:25 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:29 PM ----------

Further Info: While I was in a call from my mobile to a friend on his mobile our call was joined by a person apologizing for the interruption stating there was a emergency and someone was trying to contact me, could I please end my call. I ended my call and received a call from an ER room nurse informing me of a urgent matter with a family member. This happened a few years ago. I was using the Nokia N80 at the time. The point here is the ability to listen to a live conversation via a GSM call is not new.

---------- Post added at 06:39 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:25 PM ----------

I would also like to ad that the feature was one of the requirements of almost every Tender/RFQ during my 12 years of marketing communications products for one of the largest companies in the USA. My ability to expand on this topic is like limited do to nondisclosure agreements and I wish not to be on the run as Mr. Snowden.
[Security Discussion] Bill720:
block

Pretty sure that article was a joke, so there's nothing to "block"...

b
[Security Discussion] atljatl:
Hilarious
[Security Discussion] lenieto3:
I think what you can accomplish is turning on the mic remotely, but not recording a voice call.

Could you teach me how to turn on mic remotely via exploit?

Thanks...

---------- Post added at 03:29 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:15 PM ----------

That's right, this is accomplished by listening the GSM channel, because the GSM channel isn't safe at all, but you need very expensive devices for this and not anybody can buy them legally.

ECHELON.

So, snooping voice calls from the channel is very easy if you have money and power, if don't you'll have to do it on the phone, and for accomplishing it you'll have to overcome technical obstacles related to the hardware, what is really easy if you work together with the manufacturer, but if don't you'll have to do it the hard way hacking and compiling your own ROM and taking back the control of your phone.
[Security Discussion] jcase:
Both could be done. No sorry, I'm not a teaching people to make malware
[Security Discussion] Tony_Aldo:
Well what you might be able to do is put your phone on you WiFi network and load up wireshark on another computer and watch for any odd connections that's going on for you Android device. Maybe even set a filter.
[Security Discussion] DRIPSTER1:
Anyone know how this works or how to block it?

Very simple Remove Battery
[Security Discussion] pan.droid:
Very simple Remove Battery[/QUOTE]

Agreed.

Anyway, why are folks only concerned about the mic?

You can maybe make it harder for those who would spy on you (companies or govs) with XPrivacy or PDroid Patch. But keep in mind little can be done to prevent it if it's a hardware based back door. XPrivacy is the easier of the two to implement and compatible with far more ROMs. Both projects host threads on XDA. Concerned netizens should also search the web (using DuckDuckGo.com) for "The Guardian Project" for apps and info.

Check this out:

http://rss.slashdot.org/~r/Slashdot/slashdot/~3/wd-ZoysTfmA/story01.htm

http://feeds.gawker.com/~r/gizmodo/...back-in-the-nsas-war-on-encryption-1270158751

SEE BELOW FOR ONE OF THE BEST ARTICLES TO HELP YOU MORE FULLY UNDERSTAND THE BREATH OF THE PROBLEM AND POINT YOU TO FURTHER DETAILS. Just keep in mind that further details have emerged since its publication.

People need to read the papers: Search "Snowden" and "NSA" on following news sites: The Guardian, ArsTechnica, NYT, ProPublica and Wall Steet Journal.

Essentially, it seems the only thing "they" can't do is smell us using our devices. In other words: if there's a sensor there's an exploit to use it remotely (GPS, cameras, mic and all interactions/input with your device). NSA said it itself in leaked slides: there's a back door baked into 4G devices, Cisco networking hardware, encryption standards, etc. Incidentally, they're also the largest single employer/contractor of hackers in the country (if not the world).

Remember to pay attention to clickable text in the article as these hyperlinks lead to a significant amount of detail that all citizens concerned for our democracy aught to be familiar with.

http://feeds.theguardian.com/c/3470...gchq0Eencryption0Ecodes0Esecurity/story01.htm

---------- Post added at 04:38 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:04 AM ----------

I'm sorry but this is incredibly naive.

FBI has done this with OnStar and used recordings in court. No, you don't have to pay for OnStar service for that feature. Read the papers=) Leaked docs have proven that Cisco (for one) manufactures its networking hardware with a backdoor specifically for gov't spy agencies. Leaked (and undisputed) NSA slides boast unprecedented, multifaceted spying capabilities baked into 4G devices. Pick up a friggin paper every now and then.
[Security Discussion] mikereidis:
I agree. There was a case 10+ years ago where they bugged a mob boss's conversations through his cell. I think it was the first time they publicly declared using this method; those court case documents are public info.

There's probably 20 different ways to do stuff like this, LOL.

The best ways are through special mods to the very closed source & secret baseband/modem code, particularly when audio must flow through the baseband.

Examining every bit of code running on the application processor/Android side likely won't help to detect or avoid this. You'd have to monitor the very low level GSM data to try and detect.

I've likely said too much already and expect the man in black any minute....
[Security Discussion] pan.droid:
Yes, we're all on the list, now. The first link in my post (two up from here) describes a virtually undetectable method of integrating hardware backdoors into existing circuitry without any noticeable change to the apperance of the hardware at all. Basically, we're phucked. Add to that the largely unregulated nano tech industry and combined with drones we could barely have fathomed 15 years ago and it's easy to see how things could get out of hand. It seems Orwell wasn't thinking big enough.

---------- Post added at 02:42 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:41 PM ----------

Note to self: pick up foil.
[Security Discussion] SecUpwN:
Talking about the feds, is anybody interested in working on a security app against tracedowns?
[Security Discussion] smep:
Firewall plus disable mic, many app in play store can do this easily
[Security Discussion] MissionImprobable:
They've got us all. Blocked potential dangerous content while viewing this page. The war is on =p
[Security Discussion] mynote:
i dont think that you can avoid it completly. aslong as the Provider receive your "voice", the FBI or nsa or whoever will be able to record..
[Security Discussion] pan.droid:
WOW
[Security Discussion] SecUpwN:
You receive +1 THUMP UP for your informative posting. Now, where does it say that he does that? :cowboy:
[Security Discussion] pan.droid:
I'm guessing the 12 minute video interview on YouTube?

---------- Post added at 08:06 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:00 PM ----------

It's pretty interesting: download one of the horribly written apps on Play (Ear Spy, for one) to get a real time idea of how sensitive microphones have become. Phone calls don't reflect it because our phones deliberately isolate the two choices on the line for clarity.
[Security Discussion] Wasabi7:
How do you know for sure if it works? Even if you know someone from FBI can't tell for sure if it works or not.

Wouldn't it be more simple to just use "code" like strawberry pineapple bananas ...etc for whatever you don't want them to know instead. :rolleyes:
[Security Discussion] pan.droid:
Which post are you speaking to? The problem people are generally concerned with is the capability of any group/entity with considerable resources to be able to exploit a devices' microphone to eavesdrop on anybody in the same room. It's not that anybody is concerned about finding a way to exchange sensitive info. That's another (important) topic, altogether.
[Security Discussion] SecUpwN:
Speaking of the capability of tracing phone users and listening in, have you had a look into the link within my signature yet? This awesome project is still looking for developers. What do you think of it? Eager to participate for a safer world?
[Security Discussion] numus:
It is actually part of the 911 implementation which is required by law.
[Security Discussion] pan.droid:
lol... whatever helps you sleep, man.

Honestly, though, what would 911 implementation need with the capability of remotely activating your microphone? Last I knew, people call 911 (not the other way around). Do you mean OnStar initiating a call if it detects you've crashed? In the FL case I heard about, no, the folks had simply been spied on.
[Security Discussion] numus:
WTF are you trying to say?

I was pointing out where the implementation has actually occurred...

https://ssd.eff.org/book/export/html/25
[Security Discussion] pan.droid:
Not clearly.
[Security Discussion] jacksparao:
law

Try to find-out what all network your phone connected, what is your last used gps location. list of WiFi connected network history.. accounts..

Don't connect random WiFi, Tether Internet, etc...
[Security Discussion] Memethecat:
Phew, I was worried for a minute there, thought a trillion $ organisation was infiltrating our electronic devices from the hardware up.

Can you tell me which is the best of the play store apps?

Btw

One of the NSA big wigs was overheard in a phone shop. The assistant bragged "there's now over 400,000 apps for this phone".

The big wig whispered to his daughter "haha, kid doesn't know who I am, that's 400,000 ways for me to bug that phone"

(This isn't a joke, don't think it was Keith Alexander, but same ballpark)
[Security Discussion] meskes:
Read the act that implemented the E911 requirements. He's right.
[Security Discussion] L1gh7n1ng:
circulation sapiri

Right... From the same secret court which legalizes everything for the NSA.
[Security Discussion] roofcrash:
unity, one blood, freedom, brotherhood, bikers

When u install chrome browser on ur phone, u r being asked to accept browser can turn on/off ur mic at any time. Its in plain view. And we accept it. On the 1st page of this thread there is a guy, forgot the username, that wrote a reply containing words like bomb terrorist jihad war etc, imagine if there was unity among ppl and all would do that, all gov authorities qould be so pissed coz they wont be able to process that much information. As a result they will probably drop spying. Same it happened in Boston where police stopped using car plate scanners becsuse squad cars would scan cars all day, find stolen cars and do nothing about it, so they got sued and lost.
[Security Discussion] Entropy512:
I agree. An exploit/malware could do this, and the other (slight) possibility (dependent on phone design) would be if a backdoor were inserted in the baseband firmware. The thing is, these days, the baseband firmware doesn't have direct access to the microphone, so unless the applications processor were compromised with malware, there's no way to even bias the mic up and properly set up the codec routing.

I can tell you, at the very least, that no AOSP device has any support for this on the applications processor side without some sort of exploit/malware.

The claims of the FBI having the ability to turn on the mic even if your phone is turned off are 100% pure unadulterated bull****. For them to do this, they would need to send a signal to the phone. For them to send a signal to the phone, the baseband and RF frontends would need to be fully powered and talking to the network. There's no way in hell anyone would miss that kind of battery drain on their device.

(Maybe this myth originates from some case where the FBI swapped out someone's phone with one that had modified hardware and kept the baseband powered up, hoping they'd be too stupid to notice the "drain when off" scenario. If this were done on a device with general consumer availability it would be discovered and a PR ****storm would ensue in a matter of days. It's damn near impossible to hide the fact that a device is talking to the network over the air, since the RF transmissions required to talk to the towers can't be hidden. Hell, back in the 2G GSM days when those rumors started, you could detect if a phone was active simply by putting it near a speaker!)

Even some sort of "receive only" hack would still power up enough to cause noticeable drain - and it wouldn't be feasible since the government would have no idea which tower to send the command from unless the device were transmitting back and checking in with the network.

There's a huge difference between tapping within the network of phone calls (nothing you can do to block that except use end-to-end encryption) and the article's claims of remotely enabling spying on a device when outside of a call without the user's awareness.
[Security Discussion] gopars:
Why they must hack other.... do they so that scare from other country / people how patehtic they country ... hufff

Sent From GT i9300
[Security Discussion] Dudebowski:
No one has made any note yet about the closed source blobs used for the radio/modem /etc... even with an open source alternative ROM , even if someone has read and understood every line of code in that open source, there's still these bits that are absolutely necessary for your device to be used as a mobile phone... and the only folks that have seen what that all looks like are the manufacturers , providers, and the govt agencies gag-ordering those corporation`s developers when "not"requiring them to implement backdoors in the transmission protocols...

There's definitely possibility to order an ota update that installs a persistent root kit. Take a look at the bios backdoors/malware discoveries being made. herein lies the importance of open source, and the heroism of our community devs in combing through all of it for the greater good

Edit: I also get the feeling seeing at how devious the attacks were on the Google Yahoo data center transmissions, that getting a signing key to push data to any phone on a given provider's network wouldn't be too ultimately complex for the neo stasi agency.

Certainly pulling the battery would greatly diminish the attack vector (if you can......), but couldn't an internal cmos battery and a remote high powered radio signal still potentially network?
[Security Discussion] E:V:A:
@Entropy512:

First of all I think you're grossly underestimating the current spying capabilities available to governmental institutions, in particular those of the USA, UK and Israel. But at the same time this is exactly what "they" want. Although, the old and simple mic-trick is outdated, the fact is that there are many other options...

Can you elaborate on this? I think this is extremely HW dependent and generalizing like that is not a healthy way to progress.

This statement is equally wrong as you're sure. ;)

First of all. Just because FBI doesn't have the ability, it doesn't mean it's impossible. Far from it. Today, there is no serious spy equipment out there, that continually transmit anything. Almost all modern surveillance equipment are (1) passive or (2) passive-aggressive. What this means is, that either:

Data/signals can only sent when continually radiated from an external source.

Data is collected internally in device, until stimulated by an external signal to send in short burst.

Second, if you've had a look at some of the high-school level NSA products from 2008, you will find that a passive audio transmitter will draw less than the natural battery discharge, at 15 µA @ 3.0 VDC. Look at the "LAUDAUTO" RF audio reto-reflector from here:

NSA’s ANT Division Catalog of Exploits for Nearly Every Major Software/Hardware/Firmware

Now, this is only from off-the-shelf components, which means anyone can easily build one! Now, you could imagine how easy it would be to implement this circuitry directly on the dye or even inside the PCB, between layers.

Third, and perhaps most important. Today, there are usually somewhere between 1-3 microphones on any one Android phone. Who are checking how they are connected? Possibly a trick question, because you don't even need a microphone to pick up sound. The accelerometer is sensitive enough to pickup and detect audio vibrations.

But let's get back to the HW again.

In my last HW studies of baseband/modems chips, especially those coming from Qualcomm. In particular the MDM9200, MSM8960 etc. versions of the MSM PoP's, has revealed the following:

They all have FM in/out of band transmission capabilities.

They all have SDR transmission capability at any frequency, only restricted by the software, antennas and filters.

They all have a live internal GPS chip, only restricted by HW antenna/filters. (You can check yourself by using QXDM!)

They all have a proprietary Hexagon multimedia core (DSP) for which we do not have any source code, AFAIK. And certainly no disassembler, since it is not ARM based.

And as long as the Baseband firmware remains obscured by secrecy, we can only imagine the surprises the future have in store for us, when we discover some of the backdoors (or "vulnerabilities") hidden in the BB firmware.

And now we are served Samsung KNOX, to lock-up these secrets even more.

I also suggest to have a look at the 30C3 Jacob Applebaum presentation:

30c3: To Protect And Infect, Part 2
[Security Discussion] Wasim625:
NSA doesnt has this capability. And FBI needs a warrant for that.

I think we are bit in a safe corner for the time being.

Sent from my GT-I9300.
[Security Discussion] Torrify:
With all this discussion about basebase exploits, maybe this is relevant:

blog.torproject.org/blog/mission-impossible-hardening-android-security-and-privacy

He basically advocates using a wifi only device, dissassemble, cut out the internal mic and then use a portable pocket wifi hotspot, an encrypted VOIP service, and a plug-in mic/headset when you want to make a call.
[Security Discussion] *sitecom*:
seems a bit paranoic :eek:
[Security Discussion] Ev0luti0n_:
Considering all the nsa leaks, not at all

Sent from my Galaxy SII
[Security Discussion] Luxyo:
But is there any way (that does not imply flashing a new rom) to prevent anyone from using the mic or the camera without my consense? (firewall plus works but only as a firewall, it doesn't say anything on mic) Or maybe there exist a "dot" on the screen that's grey when the mic is in idle, and become green when someone (me or someone else) turns it up?
[Security Discussion] iunlock:
Great point. I would imagine it being easier for now as a temporary "solution just to be aware," to create an app to do just that. Maybe to have your LED light up RED or something if the mic is activate out of the norm?
[Security Discussion] optimumpro:
Please don't get confused. This "hack" is not in the code. It is in baseband, which is a separate mini OS with its own kernel. And this mini OS has direct access to your hardware and ram. So, they send a signal to your modem and can activate any piece of hardware: mike, camera, gps... . And they do it on the emergency channel, which means the phone does not have to have a sim card, just imei. The only protection is to remove battery or airplane mode (the latter is dependent on the phone/implementation). You can also have an app that can show if any piece of hardware has been activated... . Theoretically, you can develop a framework that is hooked between hal and baseband that will function like Xposed framework, but practically it is next to impossible becase all basebands are closed source. Cheers.
[Security Discussion] freestilesteve:
lol!!

Any smart minded criminal knows how to do this. You gotta be stupid if you don't. Not that I know how, but I thought at one point those "Jihad dudes" released a manual or something to that effect so they wouldn't get tapped. I could be off but I think it was something like that. Maybe it was something like turning off location tracking, but that would be kind of simple and something you think they would of already have known.
[Security Discussion] optimumpro:
With all due respect, but this thread has nothing to do with criminals, and if you are suggesting that only criminals should be concerned of this hack, then you need to start educating yourself about what privacy and freedom are...

Regards
[Security Discussion] freestilesteve:
Seriously

I dont wanna argue with anybody. Ive did enough of that for the day. I'm not doing anything where I'd expect this to happen to me. I mean seriously it seems like they would only do that to serious criminals or people like on the "Radar" I think you MrOptimum Pro, the OP and all your little Android deviced connected buddies will be fine. if your not doing anything wrong. Seriously what makes you think your worth the FBI's time? If your really serious about it just get an iPhone. lol!!

Dont give me any **** either. According to Tim Cook thats something that can't be done on an Apple. Im not gonna tell you about it cause like you told me "Why don't you read it for yourself and get educated" Its out there if you wanna find it.

Or just put linux on it and rid it of Android. **** a custom rom. lol!! Just make your own. I thought you guys were supposed to be so smart?? lol!! :p
[Security Discussion] snapper.fishes:
You must be new here. This is XDA's security development section, also known as Tin Foil Central.