yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] jova33:
My mom doesn't root or ROM.... She's returned more phones under warranty than I have. She got a GS4 because her last warranty claim they didn't have her phone in stock, and the S4 was a comparable phone, somehow.

And that is true about companies having apps that won't work if your phone is rooted. I'd here about guys in the GNex forum mention it when they were complaining about VZW being slow to update the GNex. I'd say, "unlock and flash a 4.2 ROM!" "I can do that because -whatever work app- won't work". So if employers were letting their employees bring the most unlockable device VZW has ever seen to their work, then why the need to have other devices locked down completely?

I still don't believe the root and ROM community has been the deciding factor on why VZW wants all their phones locked up tight. Although, I could see them doing it because they're upset about us removing VZ Navigator.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] :
One person (your mom being) doesn't justify a population. Look at all the threads with bricked devices and see what percentage of bricks were from people that were rooting/roming
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] Obsidian...:
Thank you kind sir. It's so weird coming to XDA or another community and having people try to call you out isn't it? (Unless it's following one of your sarcastic retorts that is hahaha :) )

Always nice to hear :) TY

Please Message Me On Hangouts Rather Than PM obsidiansemail@gmail.com
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] jova33:
The only warranty replacements I got were before I rooted or got a phone I could put a custom ROM on. I would think a phone like a GNex, that's almost impossible to software brick, would have less people trying to get warranty replacements.

The phones that have software bricks are the ones that are locked down, had to have an exploit found, and are more difficult to recover, like this one.

Edit: wtf is a shill?
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] Obsidian...:
If you read what I wrote it said "intentionally". Your mom had genuine issues with her stock phone so that is valid information that vzw can use.

What isn't is the false positives that are reported by people running custom kernels, radios etc that waste valuable resources by trying to fix a problem that isn't actually there.

Example: A single customer running custom software has a problem

They call *611 and waste 3 to 4 hours getting vzw to send a replacement device. That 3 to 4 hours probably costs them around $100 - $150 plus when they send a replacement phone their initial cost of the device +shipping and handling. So add $500 to 600. Then when they receive the old phone they send it to their techs who have to reset it then run diagnostics. Add another $75 for that. If you leave it there that's $675 -825 and maybe a refurbished device.

This is how any business would look at it. Its bad intel about their network, causes tons of costly replacements, ties up their support etc... It's bad business.

So they lose money (large or small doesn't matter) they waste their time and make other customers mad by adding wait time to their support by letting us mod our devices. So for all those negatives they must get a lot back right? Nope nothing. They gain nothing by allowing us to unlock and mod our devices (that aren't really ours until 2 years later)?

I don't agree with it but I can't disagree on the business side. If it was your business what would you do?

Please Message Me On Hangouts Rather Than PM obsidiansemail@gmail.com
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] Surge1223:
I think you took my posting waaay too seriously. First, why are you assuming that I don't know anything about locked bootloaders, root, bloat, etc? I wasn't complaining about bloat, I was complaining that Verizon is the type of company who thinks their users are dumb enough to pay for what they could have for free in Google Maps. I don't know how I offended you but I wish you would have taken a moment to look at my profile or posts to see if i was actually as stupid as your assuming I am, especially because you don't even know me. Also, i'm just saying but maybe if VZ didn't have to engulf the entirety of every phone in bloat, then maybe those non-ota kernel users wouldn't have so much data and wifi issues. Then some of them might not have to resort to unlocking, rooting or otherwise trying to make their phones tolerable. Am I going to blame a Joe Schmo if he bricks his phone doing that? Nope.

Anyways. I am on MDK and im very aware of the root exploit for the ME7 users. Also, for users who are on ME7, there is no way to flash a custom recovery because the OTA doesn't allow for older insecure kernels to be used. I was also a former Moto user (Droid--->Droid X----->Bionic), i know the feeling I have a Bionic too thats why I have hope a safestrap, kexec type of solution, because it might help us figure out how to deal with aboot or at least have a safestrap type of recovery.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] freddy0872:
Good luck to you all! I was so excited when my bionic was able to flash kexec kernels! That was a few months ago now. As a note 2 owner I and former bionic owner I feel for you all! I hope hash code can work something out for you! He's a freakin genius!

Best of luck fellow Sammy owners!
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] Obsidian...:
Where did I say you were an idiot? Where did I make any assumtions about you? You also didn't offend me in any way. I was talking in general about the reasons they do these things. This thread is about being locked and you were talking about bloat. I was just saying it has nothing to do with being locked.

Anyway you know that the bloat is on your phone before you buy it so I don't get complaining about it after you own it (well $200 of it). The bloat doesn't use any battery anyway if you don't use it. All I was saying is that the complaining about the same old thing gets old and not you in particular but a lot of people out there unlock root and install custom software that changes the way the hardware behaves without understanding it. Then when those changes make their phones worse they blame it on VZW and that's when it starts to hurts this community the most.

I wish that the roming community (in general) would take the time to learn the basics about their phones. I know you do and most of the people that actually post on here but it's all those out there that don't. Just simple things like the kernel, radio, rom, caches, system, locked, unlocked, bootloader, recovery, md5, custom recovery, wipe, data, aosp vs ota all mean. If they at least did that then brick their phones somehow I wouldn't have a problem. But when someone just starts dl'ing ish and running it without understanding it I have no sympathy.

Please Message Me On Hangouts Rather Than PM obsidiansemail@gmail.com
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] Surge1223:
Well I guess thats what one assumes when they see their post quoted, followed by some conjecture about network degradation caused from naive users who didn't know what they were doing. And I wasn't talking about bloat in general I was talking specifically about VZ Navigator being insulting I didn't intend for that to sound like a complaint, but as justification for everything thats happened to them. But your absolutely right about wishing people would learn the basics about their phones, its astonishing how many people ask if they can install a custom rom on ME7 or how to use odin to recover from a brick. Listen I get it, this thread is about the bootloader, but when the paragraph immediately after quoting me ends in "people who have no clue what they are actually doing to their devices and end up blaming the wrong people for their issues." What did you expect me to think? Hah
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] freddy0872:
For the people wanting a cleaner phone I'd recommend using the root exploit you guys have for now and use some TiBu magic to debloat the phone. At least that can be done in the mean time till the bootloader gets resolved. Or hope that hash can get safestrap working on your boot.img.

Then flash away all your aosp. Deodex. What ever is you need! Lol! Just no kernel.... Unless he gets kexec working! :)
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] th3drow:
So i tried looking back a few pages to see about progress but i didn't see much. Does anyone know what the status is? I assume it has a few people on it consider the GIANT bounty, wish i had the knowledge :D
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] saltytaco:
Well most of the progress is between obsidian and hashcode, and I think hashcode is just looking at the boot image now.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] Obsidian...:
Well then that's my bad. I expected you to see how broad my statements were and realize i was making a general statement. Especially since I knew nothing about you. Sorry I was just using your quote as the starting place for my little rant *Smh at myself*

I just hate it when I go to help out a device. (that I don't even own) Only to find out that after asking for a boot image no one knows how to get me one but everyone knows how to ***** about big red and continues to do so. At that point I was questioning why I was helping a group of people that aren't even trying to help themselves.

That's why I went off yesterday. It wasn't you in particular but everyone who became part of the problem instead of the solution.

You'll never find me attacking a person or saying anything negative about someone's personality or character. I always only talk about the facts. When those facts don't align with the other person's opinion you'll see that I'm the one who ends up getting attacked or having my morals questioned. Just like getting called a shill. Ask around. I'm not an irrational person by any means.

If people would spend the amount of time they do complaining about things on learning about Android this would be a much better community.

Hopefully we can get this S4 locked issue fixed though.

Please Message Me On Hangouts Rather Than PM obsidiansemail@gmail.com
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] Mightycaptain:
Certainly there is several different outlooks on this issue to be sure. For myself I can see validity in every arguement to a degree as to why Verizon locked this device , why it's wrong and should be unlocked, buying the Dev edition and no complaints, jumping carriers and phones. All of them are right in their way and without doubt this issue of a locked boot loader stirs emotion like nothing else I've seen on xda.

For myself though I gotta tell you I appreciate the heck out you coming to a device you don't own and helping to get something from this device to a talented Dev to maybe help this issue along.

Though I'm not on me7. I love this device and Verizon is my best option to be sure. I'm locked in for 22 more months. So I love me some options when it comes to my device. Soldier on and thanks for taking the time to help.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] Surge1223:
I remember seeing you having to deal with some of that back in the Moto days. I saw your post asking for the boot.img after you had already got it but I gave you the link the for the ME7 ota anyways just in case you needed anything else from it. There must not be many ex-moto users here, otherwise im sure they would have tried to upload it right away. Anyways, I have a razr and a bionic sitting here gathering dust so I might go install safestrap with kexec support on it just to see how it might be able to help. Do you know if its absolutley necessary for safestrap to use the /preinstall partition? Also, I think in order for kexec to be a possibility we would still have to have some sort of way to mod/bypass aboot...not completely sure how kexec/where kexec hijacks the kernel though.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] freddy0872:
As a ex bionic owner and now note2 owner I know what you mean! I wouldn't suggest installing safestrap on your S4. The apk you have is for your bionic I assume? And RAZR in that as well. They are definitely different as compared to your S4. Installing it could soft brick/brick your device.

Safestrap essentially boots up with the stock kernel and hijacks it while starting. The exact point where it does I'm not sure. Hash would know.

And yes installing SS roms into the preinstall partition is absolutely necessary. At least it was on bionic. He may find some newer and better ways this time. Well just have to wait and see!
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] SamuriHL:
Safestrap hasn't used the preinstall partition in quite some time. The rom slots are on your internal memory card now.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] ntb81:
In case anybody wants to get pissed off apparently the HTC One on VZW is unlockable via the HTC Dev tool.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] jova33:
Yeah, because VZW doesn't give a crap about the HTC One. But, depending on dev support, I may get it.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] RaptorMD:
Just make sure the Software ends in MDK and don't let them accept the OTA for you. If you want 32GB, I read today that a user got a white one from Amazon with MDK so its possible but Verizon has ME7 on their 32GB.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] anthony92170:
forget about getting a 32gb from verizon i had 4 sent to me all 32 are on me7 as the 16gb is on both. verizon owes me a 32gb i have a 16gb now but they didnt have any 32 at the time so they sent me a 16 for now. really sucks because i had a s3 with 32gb and 32 sd card they moved me to the s4 because i had gone thru 6 phones in less than a year and it was nothing to do with rooting it was hardware problems buttons ect. i am pissed because i have no storage left on phone and cant use half the stuff i want or need. Also i have a app for my hearing aid and it wont work on me7 because of security. i am about to cancell all my lines and go elswhere.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] Obsidian...:
I just hope this isn't the future for Samsung. I never thought I'd leave Moto but when I finally did they start locking up Sammy. I can't deal with a locked device again but I'm also not willing to drop vzw. Hopefully it's just their qualcomm devices and Sammy starts being able to supply all their phones with their own processor

I really hate the way Goggle's phones are going as well. Imho The Nexus line died when the 4 dropped with only gsm networks and with the GPE S4 and One following the trend I don't see them being of any relevance anytime soon.

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Xparent Skyblue Tapatalk 2
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] sub1287:
Maybe for you poor Verizon folks but for those of us not stuck Google is still treating us nicely. :)
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] SamuriHL:
That's why I left VZW and headed for greener pastures with the S4 GPE. The decision for me to leave Moto was made once I figured out what the Moto X was going to be...that was before I/O. Samsung makes great devices. You have to place the blame on locking things down squarely on the carriers, though. TMobile didn't lock their S4 variant, for example. Nor did that fly by night carrier....what's it called....oh yea, sprint. (LMAO). AT&T locked the S4 down which was odd but they're just following suit with VZW I guess. At least with AT&T you can BYOD which I did. This is yet another reason CDMA *MUST FREAKING DIE*. Being proprietary, you can't just "get a driver" for it. It all has to be approved. This gives VZW WAY too much control over what goes on the device. The best bet on VZW is the DE's. Super expensive, but, get used to it as subsidized pricing is going away soon enough anyway. Everyone screams that they want a choice....well, that choice comes at a price. The idea that you're going to get a carrier subsidized phone that you can unlock and remove all the carrier stuff that helps pay for the subsidized pricing is kind of silly. In any case, people that want control over their devices should be willing to pay for it. And to that end, carriers need to reflect that in their monthly prices. If I BMOD, I don't need to be paying prices that subsidize a phone I didn't buy from them. That piece will come.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] jova33:
And watch, the Nexus 5 is going to come out on VZW and piss everyone off who went from a GNex to an S4 on VZW.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] Metallice:
I checked over there. Apparently the VZW one isnt listed on HTC Dev and is only unlockable by choosing "other devices". They also claimed this loophole was the situation with the Droid DNA and it was quickly closed in a couple weeks...

They may still get s-off later, but if not HTC one users may be in a similar situation as we are...
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] SamuriHL:
No chance of that happening.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] DeerSteak:
I've gotten two white 16GB ones from Amazon this week (the second one came today) and both had MDK out of the box. Unfortunately the first one crapped its pants, so the second one was a replacement for it. I declined the OTA and took care of unlocking myself. :D

I just came to VZW from T-Mobile and while I'm kind of surprised at the encrypted boot loader situation on the current version, it's far from the end of the world. I have LTE all the time in my area, as opposed to EDGE or GPRS half the time and HSPA+ the other half, and VZW is already talking about VoLTE and LTE-only handsets in 2014. They're expensive and restrictive, but my experience this week with their support has been far and above better than T-Mobile and their network is the best around. You pay more and have to work a bit harder but it seems to be worth it.

That said, I'll go pledge in the bounty - the white one is my wife's who couldn't care less and will stay on TW. My brown one came with the current software so I need to hope for a solution.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] :
People, stop using the word "unlocked", it's very wrong. There was never an unlock method...just because you have a recovery doesn't mean your "unlocked".
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] anthony92170:
lets see what verizon does with the note 3 which is being announced sept 4th and will hit the shelves a cpl weeks later. i talked with samsung today the rep said they are locking devices not because of root but they want government contracts and as long as it can be rooted they wont get them. Even the rep said what they should do is sell phones locked for employees and leave them alone for us regular people.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] Obsidian...:
I hear you. If gsm was up to par when vzw and other cdma networks upgraded their networks back in the day we might have avoided this. That being said after getting used to 4g lte speed full time I'm not sure how gsm can hang. Also we aren't like Europe where if you travel an hour you find yourself in another country. I love the way gsm is setup and I know major cell providers have made the switch from cdma to gsm after the technology caught up but I don't have my hopes up for vzw. I don't lose 4g at all anymore. From my house in SE Michigan to my Cabin up North. 240 miles away. Hell I have full bars at my cabin and it's on a lake over an hour away from any city.

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Xparent Skyblue Tapatalk 2
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] SamuriHL:
And I have LTE everywhere I got on AT&T now. :) Oh, and it's faster than VZW. But that doesn't help the VZW S4 achieve recovery. I don't know how that'll be possible. By now people have ripped apart the new update looking for exploits. If one hasn't been found, it's not hopeful.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] Obsidian...:
Oh and I know this is a provider thing but everywhere you turn there's Qualcomm in the mix.

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Xparent Skyblue Tapatalk 2
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] eskomo:
I also live in Michigan and my girlfriend has the S4 and verizon. She loses lte all the time. And driving up 75 north to go "up north" its 3g only on any verizon phone once u hit Bay City. Anything south of that is not up north and is at most 30 mins from any lake. Verizon has lots of holes in its coverage and its building penetration is horrid.

Also what the heck does Qualcomm have to do with Samsung locking the device? The device is locked the way it is because of Verizon and Verizon only. Att cares much less and Sprint not at all. The chip means nothing.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] Cruiserdude:
Again, keep in mind that once VZW gets VOLTE and LTE-AWS, as well as actually making their entire footprint LTE, then there will be no need for a device to have a CDMA radio, or the requisite Qualcomm licenses. Verizon themselves are eager to move in this direction, as they would much rather pay Qualcomm for next-gen equipment than for legacy licenses for an outdated, proprietary technology.

Once Verizon is full LTE though, I don't see how they can keep their network on a whitelist, at least for CDMA-free devices. So hypothetically, by this time next year, you should be able to get a quad-band LTE device, and put in a Verizon SIM and apns and have it work fine. Which means the Nexus 6, or future GPe devices should work on Verizon's future network. Now we just need them to drop plan prices of you don't use the subsidy and we'll be good to go.

Still, I agree that they should sell the devices unlockable, and have a permanent encrypted lock be a free option at any point. This would benefit them greatly as well. That way, those of us who like to tinker can unlock our bootloaders with no problems, and they can have us give up our software warranty so they don't have to support those who can't read (I still expect them to stand behind the hardware, of course). Then those who require a locked bootloader, such as enterprise and government contracts, could request that option, and a qFuse gets burned out, locking it down forever. Individual customers who request it for whatever reason, or need it to qualify for BYOD at their work or some such, can choose that option later on, provided they are on a stock factory image. That way, we get the freedom we want, Verizon gets relief from people that can't read or fix a soft brick, and Samsung doesn't have to make and stock separate hardware versions in separate channels. But most importantly to Samsung and Verizon, their devices remain fully secure, as no one in our extensive dev community has any motivation to crack the bootloader, as its only a permanent lock for those that request it. No more emergency security fixes need to be rushed out to keep from risking contracts every time someone finds a new exploit. Of course they also would retain a loyal following of geeks, and since when is it a bad thing to retain customers?

I understand that executives rarely make decisions based on logic, but I see how the above suggestion being quite beneficial for all parties involved.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] belovedson:
your a liar. i have att as well and no it is not lte everywhere.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] sub1287:
Everywhere he goes, no ones saying any carrier has LTE everywhere since that would just be a dumb statement.

We can dream though.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] SamuriHL:
I never said it was everywhere. I said it was everywhere I go. But you know, reading comprehension isn't for everyone. Anyway, vzw has places that don't have lte, as well. Those that think that cdma goes away as soon as they flip the switch on volte might want to look into that. The first batch of volte capable phones will have cdma fall back. Well sort of. More like cdma hand off since there is no fall back from lte to cdma.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] th3drow:
I could be wrong but isn't the att s4 active having the same issue at the Verizon s4?
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] SamuriHL:
Which issue? Locked bootloader? If so, then yes, the AT&T S4 variants are all locked. That's why I got a GPE.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] Anthony825:
Chill beloved, maybe HE gets lte everywhere in his area.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] JPMontana:
So is the main BOUNTY thread being updated with donations any more? Or, are people no longer donating to the cause? It doesn't look like the moderator has updated it for a week now.

Anyone know?
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] sokrboot:
Not sure about the moderator's update schedule but most people are PMing the OP there with donation amounts.

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