yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Galaxy Note II Original Android Development] crypta:
I have to admit, this is some of the most interesting and surprising threads I've seen for a damn long time.

So as we are standing in the spotlight, let me explain, what I miss on CM. Again, it is just my personal opinion.

CM missed to implement privacy features - or did I just overlooked them? I mean, like in CM 7 or better.

Maybe I do them wrong, but I see them a bit like the mozilla org now. More towards Google, than to the society. Just the Google-funding is missing.

Choice is often an imagination in this modern world, with only a small amount of MegaCorps behind our "different" products and organisations.

I think it is important, to also offer more privacy, more advanced settings - for the advanced users; as the commercial and popular trend goes other ways, to keep the consumer happy.

But the consumer also is a user of CM, so said, the success of CM also depends on him. Early success is often because of advanced technical users, early adopters... later success isn't, and you can get gthe wrongly impression, that it is only the "normal consumer" which propels your success. So change WILL be made when a project gets more and more popular. I personally dislike this kind of change normally, and so in this case.. but thats like the world is and ever was.

This brings me to: an admin is always a user. At least I didn't found a way past in my time, to live this "perfectly". (splitting accounts, etc... is some way, but didn't really worked out for me)

So yes, as an admin or moderator, you have to be unbiased, fair and neutral up to your ass.

But what does the human - non admin part - in yourself do? Sometimes it wins ;).

So also here: the world is hypocritic and no, it is not good - just human, sadly.

In general, I like it, when things get discussed and people get involved. So it is to the upcoming conversation to be done fair and open. It is an opportunity for change & education.

At least some people in this thread know more about licences - that is good.

At least some people reconsider their thinking of... different things - that is good.
[Galaxy Note II Original Android Development] pulser_g2:
CM7 was the pinnacle of a custom ROM for the person finding they wanted more customisation. Sure, the settings were not easy to always find, but the settings slipped away lately a lot more. I'm not suggesting "make everything a setting", but to consider what is being removed.

I don't use g+ personally, as I just know I'd spend too much time on it, rather than getting work done. I'll write a response.
[Galaxy Note II Original Android Development] pulser_g2:
Sure, but flippant comments don't really help when he suggests features aren't useful, and nobody would use them... Surely that's a point to reach out and find out what users are and aren't using?

I appreciate the aim is to unify and make it better in the end, and fully support it, but surely to avoid losing any features, you are best to;

1. Introduce new settings HAL.

2. Select the first setting to migrate, and migrate it over.

3. Test new setting works under hardware HAL

4. Remove from device parts

5. When all of one devices stuff is working, the device parts would be removed from the device.

6. Once every device is onto hardware HAL, go ahead and remove device parts support framework.

I know the CM view is that nightlies are not officially releases... But the stats indicate that most people use nightlies, thus using them as a staging ground for this or something else may be a tad premature?
[Galaxy Note II Original Android Development] pulser_g2:
The privacy features wasn't just a "missed them" - it was an active decision to remove them and not reinclude them.

Despite future alternatives that work better emerging, they were turned down too...

Eventually after a bit of pressure, something was introduced (privacy guard), which goes half way, but stops significantly short of offering privacy protection.

CM privacy guard was not intended to (as a by design feature) protect a user from malicious or other tracking using unique device identifiers. I and many others contest that this is a significantly watered down solution - there's no protection for any of the unique identifiers.

For cdma users, (I'm no cdma expert, just going by a friend who works with cdma), it's possible for a semi-skilled attacker to clone your phone with pretty much your MEID and ESN, albeit illegally. That would worry me enough to want to be careful about which apps have access to three identifiers.

Likewise, I believe in user choice. Cookies are a good example of user choice - want to clear them? Click the button and they're gone. The problem is this kind of tracking is now done using your device identifiers. That means you can't "clean" your cookies and get a clean start - you need a new phone(!)

I don't think that's right, and I struggle to see legitimate need for it.
[Galaxy Note II Original Android Development] ph3n0mII:
WOW! A lot of really emotional people on here who should just chillax!

I for one, thankyou for your post, it was informative and its good to know what's perhaps going on behind the scenes sometimes.

I don't think the topic should be discussed further on here though, but maybe the occasional brief update would be in order if anything drastic happens.

All recently removed features were already discussed and planned to be re-implemented before anything was removed, some already have been re-added, a lot were removed because they have to be re-coded, and i think the new menu structure is better, once you get used to it, just a matter of patience until the missing features arrive.

I have no doubt in my my mind that every single removed feature will be back in no time.

Trust me, they guy who doesn't want them doesn't get the final say so just ignore him, no rational mind actually listens to rubbish like that.

As far as licencing goes, well if anything bad does eventually happen there, we'll cross that bridge if we get to it.

My friend just got a note 2, so im just having a look here.

CM10.2 is running very nice on my i9100 so i'm sure it will be on the N7100 as well.

Thanks again
[Galaxy Note II Original Android Development] maniac103:
The problem is if we would truly ensure nothing would break on nightlies, development would slow down massively. The Android code base is too complex to overlook the potential consequences of each and every commit. Thus, nightlies (and this has always been communicated)

are

a staging ground (which is also the reason why bug reports are not accepted against them). It's solely the user's decision whether he wants to get features - but also breakage - first (-> nightlies) or whether he wants to use safe versions (-> M, stable).

In the particular case, I think the (desired) side effect is to 'help' ;) maintainers with getting their stuff moved to common implementations. If there's stuff that's truly lacking at the time of the first M release, we can still opt to restore the DeviceParts link at that time if needed.
[Galaxy Note II Original Android Development] Markox89:
The lack of these two options is why I think that, for now and for me, 10.2 is barely usable :\

Before reading this I was thinking that this stuff was still to be ported...:(
[Galaxy Note II Original Android Development] DBLOCKWOOD:
agree

I hear you there. I wiped and started using cm10.2 nightlies, which I haven't had many issues with other than a few random app crashes. My biggest complaint is the loss of the advanced menu. I'm on a US Cellular S3 and in that menu was an in call volume gain. Losing this has made placing a call while on speaker almost useless as I have to still hold the phone in order to hear.
[Galaxy Note II Original Android Development] binjubair:
Do you mean that you want to turn off "Menu" and "Back" buttons light ?

If yes, Go to:

[Settings] app > [Advanced] menu > [Screen] tab > uncheck [Backlight] option.
[Galaxy Note II Original Android Development] pulser_g2:
Big difference there between breaking stuff (that's what nightlies are for!) and removing stuff though?

Remove stuff once it is migrated across. I notice there is no publicly accessible documentation that I could see on making this migration?

Is there some, or is it part of the g+ (which I don't use)? If there is but it's on g+, wouldn't that be sensible to make public, or link to people so they can see how to migrate their custom settings over.

At the end of the day, don't overlook the demotivating aspect of someone deciding that the settings on your device are trivial and not needed. From past track record, I suspect they would have been rejected with a flippant reason for being 'pointless'.

Like when I tried to propose, months before 4.3, that CM consider privacy. Then after a bit of public attention, privacy guard is added (a very watered down version).

I'm not trying to argue here with you, as we both have the same goals... But often the only way to see CM evolve is if there is major attention towards it (citing example of the privacy shenanigans etc)

Maybe a bit more openness would help?
[Galaxy Note II Original Android Development] pulser_g2:
That menu will not be present on the builds made more recently than the one in the OP
[Galaxy Note II Original Android Development] anoneemooz:
While I'm not happy about the removal or so-called rearrangements of settings within CM, I really don't see how it's actually unusable. I'm happily using it now and besides a little graphical issues here and there, everything is running beautifully for me.
[Galaxy Note II Original Android Development] maniac103:
Sorry, I fail to see the difference. Nightlies are for everything that is WIP.

The hardware repo has a README. If something is missing there, add the missing API and submit it to gerrit, as was done for button and keyboard backlight.

'Settings on your device' sounds like settings a particular device

needs

are being removed. That's not the case - we just want to get rid of the micro tunables that should 'just work' out of the box (touch sensitivity is an example for that). Stuff like gamma color correction is already planned. As a rule of thumb: If a setting is implemented in a large number of devices, chances are high it will be migrated. As long as you didn't even talk to somebody about re-adding settings, I don't see why you reserve the right for yourself to complain that evil CM doesn't want to add them back.

What kind of openness do you suggest exactly? More documentation? That's a good idea, but hard to manage by the developers given AOSP's quick release schedule.

(And IMHO - using the particular example of the settings reordering and the removal of weird device options - public voting about the amount of options and their placement is not the way to go. The end result would probably be like AOKP, because if you ask 10 people about their 'needed' options, you'll get 12 different answers. Including all of the requested options will turn everything into a checkbox mess, which is not exactly our vision - we want CM to be usable by non-techy users as well, not only people who like to tinker with their phones).
[Galaxy Note II Original Android Development] pulser_g2:
Nightlies are also as I recall (hopefully correctly?) the most commonly used builds of CM. Sure it's for WIP, but perhaps the actual order of making the changes is what needs reviewed?

Touch sensitivity isn't arguably a micro tunable, as quoted in the first post - it makes many devices usable with capacitive styluses and in other ways not originally intended.

Regarding openness, I suggest when a big change is made like pushing on SELinux, even in permissive, or the change to cmhw, you make a public before/after example showing how to migrate a simple set of settings over or whatever.

That way, everyone can look at the new system and move across to it. A before/after is beneficial as it shows you everything necessary to do it yourself, which is surely what's needed here?

Sure, but that's where there is a need for a clear decision - is cm for the beginner or the power user? Why not go back and review the idea of a power user mode to open up such settings?
[Galaxy Note II Original Android Development] crypta:
Why exactly should the fine tune settings be removed?

For not confusing the consumer class users?

So put it under advanced.

Oh, sorry they had been there, my mistake.

Also: who decides what is useful and what is not?

Such things are always a subject to discussion, so why don't implement things that could be done and leave the choice to the user?

If this topic is focused, you should ask this question.

For other cm related topics it is hard to judge for most people, as it needs a huge amount of time to get properly informed.

But to go with the thumb: why don't give the option to the user?

As I develop commercial web apps, I am aware that there are always many motivations involved, e.g. privacy against commercial interests - mostly you have to decide if you want to give a good platform for economic use our let the user have some privacy. Economic decisions are mostly made, when a project feels big enough to play within the big fish tank, forgetting where it comes from....

And if I don't care, I would user the manufacturers Rom.

Keep that in mind. CM was and is used for a reason. This reason will be vanished, if CM keeps simplifying things, if it gets closer to Google politics and wishes.

Sent from mobile.
[Galaxy Note II Original Android Development] binjubair:
I have notice that the battery drain so quickly when the screen is on !

Now it is (41%) runing for 18h 58m

- Screen (36%), Time on: 3h 27m

- Android OS (25%), CPU total: 1h 30m, keep awake: 56m

- Android System, CPU Total 33m, Keep awake:16m

When I used the stock ROM, I almost need to fully charge the battery once every 48 hours.

Now, I don't think it will run for 24h! and it is not the first test for battery.

My settings are:

- WiFi is off

- Bluetooth is off

- NFC is off

- Location access is off

- Brightness is on lowest value

- Backlight [Menu and Back botton light] is off

- Vibration is off for touching, notification, call, haptic...

- Touch, Screen lock, and other system sounds are off

- Homescreen Wallpaper is black

- Mobile Data always is on

- Only Gmail and Exchange accounts are there with only auto sync for "mail", "contacts" and "calender"
[Galaxy Note II Original Android Development] maniac103:
That's a question that doesn't have an obviously 'correct' answer. There are different opinions on the matter, and the way it's currently done allows the quickest way going forward.

A public before/after example like ... say ... the mako device repo? We're talking about dev stuff here, so what's the problem in looking how it's implemented in other devices?

It's a well-documented thing that we don't want to go the AOKP route. This has been decided in the CM9 time frame (so quite some time ago) and hasn't changed since then.
[Galaxy Note II Original Android Development] pulser_g2:
Possibly relevant here regarding CTS compatibility...

----

CM are currently working hard to make their rom pass CTS testing. This is why root feels 'broken' out the box, as it needs to be manually enabled. They do this to meet CTS testing that says no extra daemons may run. This is on gerrit, I'll post a link if desired by anyone.

The problem is that with every step towards passing the android CTS suite, it's another step towards becoming "just another stock ROM". Another example I saw recently was the move away from allowing camera to take photos to the SD. Why?, I hear you ask...

To meet CTS requirements.

If CM is trying so hard to do this, isn't it going to spoil the whole experience for everyone who likes the current custom ROM situation, giving them control over their device in a way Google won't allow.

I suggest, ladies and gents, if the direction is towards passing CTS, that this direction is at odds with the desires of most people who commented here, wanting a custom ROM with the features and improvements they desire. I mean seriously - removing ability to save photos to a hardware SD? I honestly was shocked when I saw that exchange take place...

Sure passing CTS would be lovely if it didn't remove all the good things about CM. But I counter the criticisms here by suggesting that to go down this route will end up removing the reasons to use a custom ROM in the first place.

No carrier will likely ship a device without CTS as it would mean no Google apps. So take a read of CTS and see what other things it prevents... Saving photos to SD is just the start of it. By complying with CTS to the letter, it's a push to become "Google friendly" at the expense of being power user friendly.
[Galaxy Note II Original Android Development] FUSIONdev:
So... Pulser confirmed what I said some pages ago.

Cyanogenmod 9/10 is not anymore cyanogenmod... the advanced rom, full of advanced controls.

But removing also saturation control is insane... cyanogenmod is going to be less configurable than a stock touchwiz rom -.-

Something is going wrong on the team...
[Galaxy Note II Original Android Development] maniac103:
Right. If you see CM as the ROM full of knobs everywhere as was CM7, AOKP is probably your choice. (In fact, this direction change is why AOKP exists at all).

You surely have a link stating that saturation control is to be removed for good, as you already have settled on a conclusion that 'something is going wrong'?

(Hint: Just read my postings above, your conclusion probably is premature)
[Galaxy Note II Original Android Development] pulser_g2:
Regarding documentation, the n4 was already sparse due to one individual's personal dislike of device specific settings. I understand it doesn't have proper gamma control, despite that being possible to do (instead simply tweaking colour levels?). Surely the example reference needs to be a device which heavily uses all the different types of settings, including boolean settings, colour levels, touch sensitivity etc.

I mentioned the latter as I know you trivialised it, but for some devices it's pretty essential, especially some tablets.

Regarding CTS, any comments on why everything is going towards trying to pass CTS, regardless of what it removed or compromises? Example being not re-adding the ability to save to an external SD, for the reason that the CTS "rules", which are issued by Google, continue to push everyone away from SD cards, to further their own cloud storage offerings.

Maybe I'm missing something, but is the aim of CM to give the best experience for every user, or simply to give a less then optimal, but consistent experience?

Lately the push to unify everything is understandable, but should it be at expense of decide specific features, such as using an external SD card. People buy phones looking for that, yet cm would appear to prefer to go comply with CTS than give people choices they have had for years with CM?

Regarding the second point, arcee went and said he thinks these kinda of settings are pointless and unnecessary, so perhaps that's the reason for confusion?

When a CM "lead" goes saying he thinks these settings are unimportant and likens them to being trivial, don't you think that undermines those who put time into making CM the best it can be for users on devices?

Nobody uses CM on a device that has literally no device specific setting or feature - even the nexus 4 should have settings like
[Galaxy Note II Original Android Development] nitol:
If that so, I mean no advanced settings. Then I`ll stuck to the initial build. Without advanced settings Roms are zero to me.
[Galaxy Note II Original Android Development] maniac103:
I guess we have different understandings of 'example'. I fail to see why the stuff in the N4 repo + the README shouldn't be enough to understand how it's going to work. Adding new interfaces is pretty much straightforward from there.

Got a quote/link for that? I haven't seen anyone shooting down the SD card support patch for camera or the patch for making the SD card the primary storage yet.

There is no such thing as a 'best experience for every user'. More knobs don't necessarily mean better experience.

No, I don't think so, at least if 'those' are thinking about what arcee is trying to convey.

At this point, I don't think furtherly discussing with you about this makes any sense, TBH. You are on a personal mission against arcee and/or against what

you think

his goals and motivations are, without acknowledging the advantages of the suggested way. I don't feel like I can convince you about those advantages, so it's not a good use of time to argue about it.

(BTW, I was a huge proponent of DeviceParts in the beginning, which was CM7. I think I was even among the first who wrote an actual DeviceParts implementation [DefyParts]. But having seen the ugly code and UI in some DeviceParts instances, I think getting rid of it and merging the useful parts of it into the settings app really is a good idea. IMHO it would be a more productive use of your time gerriting patches for the Note specific interfaces than it is to complain on XDA, as that would actually benefit your users on CM 10.2. But that's obviously up to you to decide.)
[Galaxy Note II Original Android Development] skynet11:
So how does Project Nemesis fit into this picture? My (admittedly limited) understanding of it is that it allows device-specific features (i.e. "more knobs" ) to be added by device maintainers, which would seem to be counter to this "dumbing-down" trend being discussed here. On the other hand, Nemesis does seem to fit nicely with this commercialization focus in that it claims to emphasize professional-grade apps to rival those found in OEM skins.
[Galaxy Note II Original Android Development] Formhault:
It goes green when >90%. It's been like that since CM7, even on the HTC Desire :eek: .
[Galaxy Note II Original Android Development] crypta:
I agree with you. Basic UX-Design tells us, that simplicity is the key. And this teaching is right.

But - and that's the complicated at this - this doesn't mean, that taking away options is the right thing.

E.g. if you would follow this statement word by word, you'll probably end up with something like iOS.

The great mastering is, to keep UIs simple and easy, to give the user a sufficient if not great out-of-the-box product WITHOUT limiting the user's possibilities. OK, CM will do that first part, if I understood you right.

The second part has some more advanced motivations, for a company it keeps the support tickets low, if they make nothing else available to the user, than just the absolut basics.

"no settings, no toying it unusable".

This seems to me one of the reasons, why stock roms don't give the owner proper ownership of his bought product with withholding him root.

But has CM guaranteed support or is a company?

What exactly are the aims of CM?

Taken from the CM Web site (which starts with its features first):

Based on the Android Open Source Project, CyanogenMod is designed to increase performance and reliability over Android-based ROMs released by vendors and carriers such as Google, T-Mobile, HTC, etc. CyanogenMod also offers a variety of features & enhancements that are not currently found in these versions of Android.

And I'll end my post with:

There is no such thing as a 'best experience for every user'. Less knobs don't necessarily mean better experience.
[Galaxy Note II Original Android Development] Mazda:
Couldn't have said that better myself :p