yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Nexus 7 (2013) General] e.mote:
Small tabs are usually held in portrait, so the narrow vertical bezel will make it harder to hold, unless 4.3 does what iOS did and void the touch zones along the edges.

N7B will be slower than N4, since it has to push 1080p vs N4's 720p (more precisely, 2.25x pixels).

Given all the hype and hope of Miracast last November, and the bitter disappointment when both N7 & N10 couldn't have it, I was expecting that it would be a major feature on this second wave of Nexus tabs. But alas, it apparently isn't to be. Instead, we get the "Slimport" which is yet another proprietary port that require a custom cable. Why not micro-HDMI?

Of all the features that can be upgraded/added, "Moar Pixels" is probably the last on my list. Was there ever any complaint of the N7 screen being too grainy? Can you actually see a diff between 720p and 1080p on a 7"? But we get moar pixos anyway, along with a price bump and probably worse battery life and performance. One would've thought Google learned this lesson with the N10.

The OG N7's main appeal was that it was low-priced, but with reasonable quality and decent specs. It was the Kindle Killer. But now as OEMs come out with cheaper & better tabs (eg Sero 7 Pro), N7B is tacking upwind with a more expensive tablet, with no meaningful new functionality, and the same fault that afflicts all Nexus toys: no SD slot.

No doubt this post won't win any popularity contest, given the usual launch frenzy for new Google toys. But someone has to point out that the emperor is wearing his birthday suit.
[Nexus 7 (2013) General] Wilks3y:
Do you know what, whilst I'm very excited about the New N7 and will be doing whatever I can to trade my 1st gen in for a 2nd gen, you raise some very good points.

1 - I totally agree that Google have yet again taken away from us what we all asked for (HDMI) and fit it with yet another random port (Slimport) that needs a special cable as you stated.

2 - I think improving the screen is a good thing, but again a 7 inch 720p is probably sufficient, atleast they don't try and look cool and call it a "Retina" and hope that everyone thinks its special because it has a weird name.

3 - The price point however is something that I personally won't fault Google on, when the first N7 came out it was almost unbelievable and yet to this day my N7 runs like a dream.

Some very good points you've raised!
[Nexus 7 (2013) General] Beerad875:
It hasn't even come out yet. We don't know if these things being leaked are 100%
[Nexus 7 (2013) General] ianmedina:
It will perform well....whatever you say y'all!
[Nexus 7 (2013) General] michaelg1030:
Is there a 7" android tablet out with better specs?

Not that I am aware of, so why you complaining? Its $230, you are basically getting a super sized N4 for $120 less. Sounds like a steal to me, sure the current specs will be out done by someone else sooner, but who really cares chances are you are just going to selling the 2nd gen at some point and buy the 3rd gen.

Point is this is def an upgrade over the 1st gen tablet.
[Nexus 7 (2013) General] Richieboy67:
Just wondering.. Do you even have a nexus 7?

Google changed everything with the nexus 7 and the new model only improves things. It is a great device and there is nothing that compares in its price range. The 7 is a world above the kindle. I have owned both. The kindle I gave away and the 7 I loved. I only sold it because I knew a new model is coming.

I really don't understand the negativity here. Still on the SD slot thing? I think people who need to store 80 gigs on a phone or tablet are living in the past. Nobody can use 80 gigs during a day. Much of the space is just filled with junk.. It really isn't needed. Shall there is a 32 gig model. Surely that had to be enough.

You are entitled to your choice but personally I could give a crap about an sd card on a device that is faster than hell and cheaper too. It is a quality device and durable too. All around great device..

---------- Post added at 12:50 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:46 PM ----------

One more thing.. Small tablets are not " held in portrait" .. Can be held and viewed either way for different things. Obviously you know this but just saying.. The 7 is very hands friendly and the bezel is not a problem. This is why I asked if you had one because if you did you would know how comfortable it is to use and hold onto.

Also... The majority of people buying a 7 inch tablet don't care about miracast or even an HDMI port. It would be nice but I don't think it would be worth another $100 or what ever they would have to charge for it..

As for the display.. I doubt the new nexus will be slower. There was much resources to spare on the last model. And the higher res is just the trend these days. I don't mind it at all and if they did not do it I'm sure it would have been on your list of negatives. :D
[Nexus 7 (2013) General] kisrita:
I for one CAN see the grains in text on the old Nexus and just barely in text even on the Retina iPads. So I DO need a device with the ppi the new Nexus 7 is promising and I also wanted it no bigger or heavier than the old Nexus 7 . That was the only feature I was really hoping for, so I will be very happy with the new Nexus 7.

I don't understand where people get the idea to use 7 inch Android devices in portrait mode? Unless you are reading an ebook or using a phone app, portrait mode usually gives you tiny text, and just turning it to landscape tremendously improves user experience. And if you do use it in portrait, you can hold it like a phone, it is narrow enough so it can be held in one hand (unlike an iPad mini, unless you have gigantic hands). You need bezels when you hold it in landscape, and guess what? Those bezels are there so you can do that comfortably too. I already have a 10 inch and an 8 inch Android tablet. I gave away my old Nexus 7, but I am buying the new Nexus BECAUSE of its size, bezels and resolution. There are many choices out there. If the Nexus doesn't offer what you want, there are other devices for you to choose from. If you want a grainy screen and big bezels with a larger screen look at the Samsung tablets. My Note 8 fits that description but is still perfect for work since its primary purpose is taking notes. I still want the Nexus 7 at home anyway, because for me, outside of work, it is a much better fit.
[Nexus 7 (2013) General] bluesy_92:
Pushing a higher res doesn't necessarily mean it's slower. The Adreno 320 is a beast, and the N7B pulls a higher framerate than the current N4 on benchmarks, from what I can tell. Also, the Snapdragon S4 Pro can run up to 3 instructions per clock cycle, whereas older Snapdragons can run 2. This means 2 things. One - it can perform better than processors at the same clock rate, as it is 50% more efficient, and two - it will actually save battery, as more commands can be run on a lower clock rate, so you don't need to push the processor. UNDERCLOCKED to 1.2ghz...on paper, slower than the current N7, it will perform like a Snapdragon at 1.8ghz...alot of power for the given speed. Hell, if I get one, the first thing I'm doing is using the CyanogenMod performance controls to underclock it. It's helluva more powerful than I need.
[Nexus 7 (2013) General] MrPhilo:
Wouldn't it be more wise to compare the Nexus 7 2nd Gen to the original Nexus 7 along with similar form factor in terms of performance than a phone?

The Adreno 320 is capable of running 1920x1200 fine.
[Nexus 7 (2013) General] IRX120:
The s4 pro with 2gh of ram is BARELY phased at all by a 720p display at 1.5ghz (even as low as 1ghz) so if the nexus 7 ii runs a s4 pro at 1.7ghz and has 2-3gb ram, it will be fine

Sent from my Gnex@1.2 GHz on Stock 4.2.2
[Nexus 7 (2013) General] quidnunc:
the touch zones are necessary on the ipad mini because it's too wide to comfortably palm. on a device that is more narrow you should be palming it and the fingers would be touching the sides not the front of the device. it isn't any difference than holding a phone which is smaller. so the idea is the more at rest your hand is and more light the device the less fatigue while holding it over time
[Nexus 7 (2013) General] player911:
If you use a DUMB launcher that doesn't support multitouch (only registers last input) then you could get away with small bevels. But Android doesn't have Dumb launchers. Our launchers utilize multi-finger gestures, pinch/zoom, sliding, edge support, etc.

So Android needs bezels unless you dumb down the launchers and other apps.
[Nexus 7 (2013) General] quidnunc:
I don't understand this reasoning. You shouldn't be clawing the device in portrait where fingers are touching the screen. It causes fatigue. It does in fact have a bezel just a smaller one which likely accounts for any finger overhang. Maybe it infringes on the way some people prefer to hold their device or have particularly large hands that cause more overhang but I think some of these people should try to learn how to palm because the hand is in more of a resting state than pinching or claw grips (it remains to be seen how the new back material supports palming as the current material is very effective at preventing slipping when holding a device loosely)
[Nexus 7 (2013) General] Deathman20:
Don't know why there would be negativity about the new Nexus. In comparison, even of the Old Nexus 7, or say the Transformer Infinity (TF700) with the 1920x1200 screen as well with the Tegra 3 in it, from benchmarks, the new N7-2 crushes the old Tegra 3 CPU/GPU and the craptastic NAND to go with the tablets.

Myself owning a TF700 and trying the Nexus 7 before returning it because of the same faults. this looks like to fit the bill. High res screen, good performance and should be better on the battery life than that of the Tegra 3 devices since they sucked power and then some.
[Nexus 7 (2013) General] michaelg1030:
It could of shipped with the new exynos 5420 octa-core and people would still find something to ***** about.
[Nexus 7 (2013) General] lars1216:
They would cause that is a really closed SOC. That's why most people on xda prefer the GE S4 over the regular octa one.
[Nexus 7 (2013) General] stuff:
There is nothing wrong with this SOC, there is nothing wrong with this device. The price is still extremely cheap, at $229 for the 16GB. Same specs as the N4, but cheaper and with a better display?

You don't have to upgrade your currently N7 if you don't want to.
[Nexus 7 (2013) General] e.mote:
>Is there a 7" android tablet out with better specs?

Yes. The specs that matter to most people--storage expandability, HDMI-out--are indeed offered by many non-Nexus tablets, even the cheapies. As said, I didn't see any outcry for 1080p in a 7" panel, or another proprietary video-out port.

We'll know how the S4 Pro handles 1080p soon enough. It's the exact same SoC in N4, which had to push only 720p. Those familiar with the N10 should still remember how everyone lauded the (then new) Exynos 5 chip, only to find out that it can barely power the N10's 1440p res.

With respect to this morning's "breakfast" announcement, Chromecast similarly disappoints as it's yet another proprietary protocol/widget, and Miracast is now seemingly ignored. Chromecast is limited to 2.4GHz, not the wider bandwidth of 5GHz, let alone WiGig & similar. Really?? Where's 802.11ac support? Not sure what Google is thinking of here with all these inferior proprietary tech.

As for 4.3, it's a wash since it'll be available to all Nexus toys--and in a week, all toys that use CM and 3rd-party ROMs. But as with all the things announced today, 4.3 likewise underwhelms with fairly minor incremental improvements.

>It is a great device and there is nothing that compares in its price range.

Yes, because most 7" tablets have now dropped to the $150 range, including the 16GB OG N7, the Asus MeMo Pad HD 7, and the Hisense Sero 7 Pro. All are good all-around performers, and except for the OG N7, the others have expandable storage. Sero has HDMI-out and MeMo has Miracast. In comparison, the N7B is $80 higher, or more than 50% more expensive than the competition.

Walmart sells the Sero line, which equates to strong distribution that the N7 will never reach. The Asus MeMo should have similar availability.

This isn't to say that the N7B is a bad tablet. Obviously, it improves on the specs of the OG N7, but the improvements aren't meaningful to the average user, and the +50% price comparison to the competition (that has better functionality and wider distribution) bodes poorly for the N7B. Likewise, the days of N7 being the savior of Android tablets are long over. Android tabs are here, and the competition is capable.
[Nexus 7 (2013) General] michaelg1030:
Walmart sells the nexus too.

And just about every major electolronics store will be selling the Nexus 7 2 as well. So saying the Sero will have broader market is clearly wrong.

Only XDA and android nerds know about the sero 7 line up. Some mom and dad walking in to Walmart looking to buy their kid a cheap tablet isn't going to know the difference between them all. Chances are they will buy the cheapest one (which is not the Sero 7Pro).

I agree that the better specs are subjective, but when you are talking about raw performance the 2nd gen N7 is better than anything else in its category.
[Nexus 7 (2013) General] khaytsus:
You realize that SlimPort uses the standard microUSB port and a cable to connect to DisplayPort, HDMI, or VGA.... Right? So it's exactly like anything else, just a new cable.
[Nexus 7 (2013) General] e.mote:
> So [Slimport is] exactly like anything else, just a new cable.

Fixed: "...just a custom cable that you can get only from a few sources. And it'll probably be expensive."

That's what "proprietary" means.

Edit: $30 expensive, to be precise. http://www.amazon.com/SlimPort®-SP1002-Connect-connector-Supports/dp/B009UZBLSG

>And just about every major electolronics store will be selling the Nexus 7 2 as well. So saying the Sero will have broader market is clearly wrong.

In the 4Ps of marketing, placement (distribution) doesn't equate to promotion. Apparently, N7B will see wider retail distribution than N7, which was limited to only the 32GB SKU. But N7 never had much retail sales even when it was carried by Walmart. Now with Walmart having its own line, it's a safe bet that any promotion will go toward its tablet, and perhaps popular brands like iPads. Nexus is not a strong retail brand.

We'll see how it goes. For retail pricing, $200 is the break point for impulse buying, which dominates retail purchases.

>when you are talking about raw performance the 2nd gen N7 is better than anything else in its category.

Spoken like a true techie. But from a wider view, performance isn't the key criterion for 7" tablets. As long as the UI run smoothly (which isn't a given for N7B), then other things matter more.
[Nexus 7 (2013) General] blazevxi:
Chrome cast looks pretty impressive for a USB stick that provides such things as Netflix and YouTube on TV.,
[Nexus 7 (2013) General] Ectoplasmic:
Have any evidence for this? I always use landscape for my 7" tabs. And by your own description, this tab looks like it was made for landscape. Do you think you know better than Google how people most people usually hold their tablets?
[Nexus 7 (2013) General] Deathman20:
Its a HDMI stick ;)
[Nexus 7 (2013) General] e.mote:
>Have any evidence for this [7" devices being used primarly in portrait]?

The Android UI starting with 4.2 (4.1?). It's designed for mainly portrait use.

>I always use landscape for my 7" tabs.

No one said "only" for portrait use. Obviously, people will hold any device a variety of ways.

>And by your own description, this tab looks like it was made for landscape.

Actually, N7B is almost a mirror copy of N4, except blown-up. The SoC and RAM are the same, so is the SlimPort, so is the silhouette including the pudgy "chins" and thin vertical bezels.

>Do you think you know better than Google how people most people usually hold their tablets?

With the many flops (Nexus Q, Google TV, etc etc) that came from Google, I wouldn't hold it as the paragon of wisdom.
[Nexus 7 (2013) General] michaelg1030:
For $35 its something to buy and mess with, but I really don't see it as that impressive. Its essentially just a hub for streaming media. Hopefully it can be hacked to support full device mirroring, than I will be impressed. But for now the $30 slimport adaptor is a much better option for broadcasting content on to your TV.
[Nexus 7 (2013) General] Deathman20:
Think slimport can fully mirror the whole device out of the box to the screen. Chromecast doesn't sound like it, only program specific. I ordered Chromecast and should get it when I get my N7B. Just need to nab a slimport then as the final piece, but will wait til at least I test this stuff out first.
[Nexus 7 (2013) General] the_main_app:
The "old" nexus has a faster processor in terms of pure ghz. Is the snap dragon processor better and the "new" nexus 7 will still be faster? I just bought a nexus 7 and really like it so I don't want to exchange for the new nexus 7 unless the processor is better. I haven't been able to fine any benchmarks between the tegra3 and snap dragon. Thanks
[Nexus 7 (2013) General] OJ in Compton:
Yes.

http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013...ce-preview-a-huge-speed-upgrade-in-every-way/
[Nexus 7 (2013) General] style154:
I only thing I confused about is why did they go backwards with the battery? Everything else got an upgrade...
[Nexus 7 (2013) General] Deathman20:
No the old Nexus was slower in Mhz as well. Stock was 1.2-1.3Ghz. The new one is 1.5Ghz out of the box. But yes it is faster period. If the benchmarks are accurate so far that we have seen, it even beats my TF700 @ 1.6Ghz and even more. I don't think mine would catch it at 1.9Ghz which is max, even then the CPU on the N7B can get upwards, if like the N4, of 1.7-1.9Ghz no problems. Even the GPU can get up to 487Mhz if not mistaken is what I saw. For instance the Snapdragon 600 has a 450Mhz GPU.

---------- Post added at 07:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:31 PM ----------

Well it is thinner so smaller battery for that per say to help keep costs down. Though the S4 Pro is much more energy efficenet than the Tegra 3 so smaller battery is needed. If you haven't noticed the battery specs it about 1 hour longer than the existing N7 for run time both in video and general use.
[Nexus 7 (2013) General] darkchazz:
How?

old N7: 1.3ghz

new N7: 1.5ghz

Ghz is not everything though. The S4 Pro is a newer, more efficient architecture that is both faster and consumes less battery. You also get high memory bandwidth and a good gpu this time around, unlike the old N7.

Tegra 3 wasn't good at anything other than marketing hype. The extra cortex A9 cores were useless. The gpu was(and still is) nothing short of rubbish. The slow single-channel ram could barely handle the 1280x800 display. And on top of all that it sucked a lot of juice.
[Nexus 7 (2013) General] demandarin:
Hey hey now. I love my tegra3..lol

Wow, been a while since I read a thread or post from e.mote. he always sees the flip side of things. Good thread with all great points.

Regardless of new device not having SD card alot or HDMI port, I'm still impressed with features it does have. Basically a welcomed upgrade all across the board. I will likely get one. As I already own 2 OG N7. Ill give one of them away as a hand me down.

Interesting info on the slimport as that's new to me. As for chromecast, I think its a great deal at only $35. It currently can't mirror exactly but being able to stream high def. Content from any mobile device without any setting up really is cool. I just recently discovered I could send YouTube content to TV from phone. I would much rather have a one solution fits all for streaming but ill take it any way possible.

As for SD card/extra storage, just use a micro USB/mhl cable like we did for of n7. I just plug my 32gb USB stick up to it and plug into my N7 or whatever device and I'm good to go. Work arounds are better than nothing.

Interesting points though E.mote. The pros outweigh the cons, IMO.
[Nexus 7 (2013) General] e.mote:
[MENTION=2482199]demandarin[/MENTION]

Heh, I remember the good old days of the TF Prime. Scary to realize that "good old days" is only slightly over a year ago. Time flies when you're having fun. I've been hanging out on the Nook HD+ forum, when I bought a bunch for the family folks. Speaking of good tabs with great 1080p screen, the 9" HD+ is only $140 now.

I'm not here to be a party-pooper, but to lend a different perspective from the usual XDA take--moar res! moar CPU! moar benchmark! you know the drill. N7B has improvements, but all are of the MOTS (more of the same) variety. N7 was exciting because it was the first real 7" Android tab with good specs and good price. N7B is just incremental.

>As for chromecast, I think its a great deal at only $35.

Not as good a deal if Goog had stuck with Miracast which is dual-band and an industry standard. Miracast adapters are $50 and would drop further if there were big platform support.

>As for SD card/extra storage, just use a micro USB/mhl cable like we did for of n7.

It's a kludge to resort to dongles, when a SD slot is cheaper/cleaner/simpler to implement. We've talked about this before, why Nexus can't have a SD slot (TL/DR: to allow OEMs a way to differentiate and offset the Nexus device's superior price/buck advantage). But with N7B's decidely premium pricing, it could have had a SD slot (and standard HDMI-out) and it wouldn't hurt the OEMs any. I see the N7B as just a lazy design, basically taking the N4 design as-is and dropping a bigger screen into it.

Anyway, if you hang a USB device off the microUSB port, then no TV hookup. If TV hookup, then no charging, etc. Another advantage of an actual HDMI-out port. The lack of ports may be OK for a phone, but for a tablet where there's plenty of space, there's no excuse.
[Nexus 7 (2013) General] Ohgami_Ichiro:
One of the benefits of slimport is the ability to use HDMI and charge the phone. Just a small clarification. But I agree with all your other points.
[Nexus 7 (2013) General] michaelg1030:
You actually can do all three at the same time given the right adaptors. Slim port has its own microusb to charge from. Or you can plug a powered USB hub in to it and then you can charge and use usb otg for reading that SD card slot.

I'm not sure why you are so hung up on these short comings. The original didn't have SD slot and HDMI, so why is this a deal breaker now. The 2nd gen is an improvement over the 1st, you had a false impression if you honestly thought it would come with microsd and a standalone HDMI port.
[Nexus 7 (2013) General] brizey:
Still don't get it. The content isn't on your phone or tablet, it's on a server somewhere. The extra $65 for an Apple TV or Roku 3 for a functional on screen interface (a proper directional basic remote control is what you want here) is totally worth it. I just don't get the appeal of screen mirroring. Other than contrived situations like looking at photos you took with your phone before you have had as chance to properly archive them, it's useless.

It's cheap, but it has to be because it doesn't really do anything valuable. I may get one to play around with, but only because I a sucker for gadgets, lol. I have a raspberry pi that I waited months for gathering dust on my desk, too.