yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] TH3 ST1G:
This whole thing irritates me a bit...

Let me explain, I was perfectly content with running my iPhones with jailbreak... All my friends with Android devices were all, "google is open sourced, it encourages custom software and all is gravy"... Here I am 2 months into my first Android device and it's like deja vu, locked down device again.

While I truly love my S4 and android OS, I absolutely despise bloat of any kind.

Side note, and I want to preface this with I AM NOT A Dev.... When apple started doing their signature checks for installing new updates, some geniuses decided to create a little program called, "tiny umbrella". From my understanding it "caught" any attempts by Apple for a signature check, and tricked itunes into thinking the OS was signed, was something like this work here?
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] eakeller:
The verification process used by Android devices is completely different than Apple. What TinyU did was catch the verification check as the device attempted to 'phone home' to the mother ship servers. Android checks are all local to the device and aren't looking for an external authentication.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] TH3 ST1G:
Damn, I remember reading that now, the blacklist.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] eakeller:
Yeah, that was a pretty good solution for the whole jailbreak workaround....it was also in the days when updates were forced through iTunes and not OTA. :)

Good thinking though, keep it up! :cool:
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] open1your1eyes0:
Two things. An early bootchain that allowed flashing of recovery and an even earlier unlocked bootloader that allowed flashing of everything essentially after we have root/recovery. Problem on the S4 is even if we get an early bootchain we will still not be able to flash it because Samsung learned on the S4 and locked down write-protecting the emmc preventing such a thing. Also on top of that they blacklisted flashing of anything earlier than the current build of VRUAME7. Essentially even if we gain root and recovery, to unlock the bootloader will require a serious exploit of some kind (if one even exists).

Just a little insight into our current situation. You could basically say that anyone who has updated has essentially turned their S4 into a Motorola device (perhaps even worse). It would be like trying to hack the BIOS of your laptop at this point (although that might not be the best comparison but definitely the closest idea).
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] nnnnr14:
Damn :/ that's really bad news
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] Gunthermic:
Which could mean those that did the update without checking first, might be stuck. Its sad but a huge lesson learned. Never ever take a ota...

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Xparent BlueTapatalk 2
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] andybones:
so true my friend. I learned this lesson on the HTC Eris taking the 2.1 leak, which in about 2 days later released with root, so I was stuck on a leaked 2.1 verison with bugs for the remainder of the phone.

Never again will I take an OTA.

but it's unfortunate for those who may need a replacement refurb. they won't have root.

Dev edition looks like the way I will be going
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] Gunthermic:
I think I will be very happy with my 32gig rooted/recovery S4

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Xparent BlueTapatalk 2
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] dadsterflip:
Yep. Glad I learned to wait because usually dev will have an ota ROM or what a day later.

Would be nice to have an htcdev thing.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] hallstevenson:
Thought you just bought an already rooted/unlocked-bootloader S4 ?
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] rushless:
I think I am perhaps seeing contradiction. Back when all this "went down" with the update, it was asserted VZW went out of their way to lock the device down and the retort was it was not and people were working on it, but that a stable method would take time and saying otherwise was being negative. Unless my reading skills have gotten even worse, it seems there is no positive information other than maybe perhaps a stable root method has been obtained.

If it is looking like the bootloader is a dead-end, would it not make sense to go ahead and release the root method if it IS a dead-end, so people could kill bloat and block future updates? Kind of seems obvious Verizon has worked with Samsung to stop the "modness" of the masses. The irony could be several more weeks go by and a package is close to release, but an OTA update is sent out before released and probably nulling the effort.

Added: Verbose point being, is there definitive information of a package being created that goes beyond just root? Not seeing it other than apparent conjecture by some folks.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] open1your1eyes0:
Remember that root and unlocked bootloader are the not the only goals here. Root was always the easy part and unlocking the bootloader via an exploit seemed like a daunting task ever since this device was launched. The trick to all this is going to how we attain recovery and how easy/cumbersome it will be to work with it.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] andybones:
I did but if the new bootloader is not unlocked I (we rooted)are stuck basically on the first OTA forever lol. well until they crack it or we find other ways.

Personally, if I can afford it, Dev Edition is the way to go, for someone like me paying outright full price, why would you not get it?

Obviously I didn't initially get it as I got this one at an amazing deal. I would like to not have to sell my current s4, but it may become a necessity for me.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] droidstyle:
this was back before signature verification checks were implemented into the boot.img. So essentially somebody leaked a old bootloader that was unlocked. This was probably the initial bootloader intended to release with the device until verizon said lock it up. Being somebody leaked that bootloader, again sammy now encrypts the boot.img with signature checks and blacklists old firmware, making it impossible to downgrade to older firmware. THIS IS WHY I HAVE BEEN SAYING DO NOT ACCEPT OTA'S FROM DAY 1. LET THE DEVS DO THIER MAGIC AND PROVIDE SAFE UPDATE PATHS.

As Open1 said, anybody that took the update essentially turned thier device into a moto device that bootloader is now untouchable. There is no duplicating the signature as its a string of code a mile long, the q-fuse is blown, so essentially the S4 is a tickingtime bomb that was set off with the latest OTA.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] tee00max:
So what's this device edition s4 and where could we acquire one?
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] droidstyle:
Samsungs website where all dev editions have been since the S3.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] SamuriHL:
http://www.samsung.com/us/mobile/cell-phones/SCH-I545ZKDVZW

Sold the frack out I'm afraid.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] andybones:
sold out currently..

Google is your friend. :)
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] rushless:
Understood. Just reading through the whole thread, the net rolling trend seems to be more like Bill Paxton in Aliens: "Game over man". Again, most of us simple minded types will be content just to have root function. My concern is enough time will go by that we might see a smaller OTA that causes a start from scratch by the devs. Kind of like building a big house of cards and the wind knocks it down.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] droidstyle:
Just because you will be stuck on the initial unlocked bootloader does not mean you will be stuck on the initial firmware. Being your unlocked there should be no issues getting up to newer firmware base via recovery. I believe somebody already put together a stock odexed me7 .zip that you can upgrade to without perma locking the device.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] brock350:
I remember the eris and the 3 enclair leaks that came with it. It sucked being on the leaks with no way back until root was found.. Good ole days
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] andybones:
For this OTA...

Who is to say that Verizon doesn't block the method he used for the next one?

Not arguing here against anything.. Just my opinion. Dev Edition should be bought if you are buying off contact and after the new OTA update.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] droidstyle:
Tru...and I agree at this point the dev edition will be the best option at this point being they are ever in stock lol.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] barnacles10:
None of the s4 bootloaders (on non developer editions) were ever actually unlocked.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] SamuriHL:
I believe T-Mobile's S4 was not locked.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] barnacles10:
Interesting, wasn't aware of that. Thanks. But pre me7 exploits did not unlock the vzw bootloader.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] shabbypenguin:
metropcs, sprint, cspire, cricket, us cellular, the canadian variants and tmobile were unlocked out of the box :)

att, verizon, docomo were the locked ones.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] barnacles10:
Rain on my parade shabby. :)
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] Southern_mind:
I think there's a rom out, it was posted a few pages back, seems like the post were removed though but it was the OTA and updated the baseband but it didn't touch the bootloader or the recovery.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] SamuriHL:
Correct. Loki was not a bootloader unlock. It was an exploit for a security hole that allowed flashing of unsigned code. The hole is gone. Now it will be far more difficult unless another hole in the signing security exists. That's not what we like to call "very likely".
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] Southern_mind:
Keyword Google. That's why people want a nexus device because it comes from Google or a nexus experience device. They come ready to be unlocked and modded.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] strickforce:
Are there any stock nexus devices for Verizon? I got my S4 the other day at a local best buy - and the rep installed the update before I ever got it in my hands - like an idiot I did not even think to stop him.

I may just try and return it claiming it has poor battery llife (which, holy cow - it is horrible google services/android OS eating up more then the freaking screen).
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] droidstyle:
The samsung galaxy nexus was verizons only nexus based smartphone. Lets say I would much rather have a locked s4. If you want a great device thats unlockable that functions flawless with great battery life, get a note2.

---------- Post added at 10:28 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:26 AM ----------

I know, I am talking about the loki variant...please refrain from picking posts apart, you knew exactly what I was talking about. ;)

---------- Post added at 10:29 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:28 AM ----------

Thats what you get tooting your horn before researching :laugh:

---------- Post added at 10:30 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:29 AM ----------

Is there a echo in this thread :p
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] lolzadam:
On a lighter note, I got a free case of Nutty Bars over the weekend. 16 boxes of wafery goodness. I'll save a box to add to the bounty :p
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] Cruiserdude:
Well if the dev edition was offered in 32 GB, still had a hardware warranty for manufacturer defects that would be honored provided I Odin back to stock, and was actually available it'd be an option. Unfortunately none of those things appear to be the case. I don't mind upgrading another line for a phone, selling it, and buying the dev edition, though that's not the most appealing. But the other things basically keep it from being an option.

For those who DO have the dev edition, how does the warranty actually work? Does it alert Samsung when you unlock it, or does it have a flash counter like others, so you could Odin back to stock, TriangleAway and you're good? And do you have to send it back to Samsung and wait a few weeks, or will they overnight a replacement like Verizon?
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] rushless:
After all of the notes, I still see no information suggesting there is a solution potentially identified for people, post update that do not have root. Nothing at least beyond well intended conjecture.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] barnacles10:
I'm not "picking posts apart". A unlocked bootloader and a root exploit are different things. Maybe I could have assumed what you were talking about but such information can get picked up and misinterpreted. I'm simply clearing that up.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] Scorp123:
Wait, the dev edition S4 and the regular S4 are the same exact phone correct? Same processor, same screen, same RAM, etc. What's preventing developers from copying the unlocked bootloader of the dev edition and applying it to the standard S4? Essentially making it into a dev edition and unlocking it.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] Bloodcrav:
Our phones have both hardware and software locks.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] hlxanthus:
Hardware is the same. But the images a signed with a different key.

Sent from my Galaxy S4
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] Scorp123:
So what does this mean? ME7 people can't switch. But what about people still on MDK? Could we still have our phone "turned into" a dev edition?
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] Jayrod76:
As it stands now.. The ME7 update has killed the Loki exploit and is looking like it has completely locked the device...but root can be achieved (if you protected prior to the OTA) and might be working for the others who didn't ( I think). Best case..a B/L option such as Bootstrap or Safestrap for ROMing.

Those of us still on MDK are fine..even if we flash the ME7 ROM since it doesn't effect the B/L. Bottom line..all of us that don't have Dev editions or are not on carriers such as Tmo..are somewhat in limbo...That's how I am understanding things.

Sent from my Platyraptor extreme ultra maxxxx 4gLTE/GSM/ABC/123 Nick Knack Pattywack Ermegherd GED, MD,RNA,DNA,YMCA Edition S4! Via the 4th dimension....NOW RUNNING ECLIPSE
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] vegittoss15:
Does this seem like it'd work?

http://droidmodderx.com/galaxys4/rom-vruame7-ota-update-rooted-and-deodexed-71413/
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] ballisticn8:
Not if you're on the latest vzw ota

sent from my thumbs...
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] lycwolf:
Honestly... I just want to be able to completely remove the damn NFL App... Verizon and their bloat..
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] Gunthermic:
And you won't get alot of updated info.

1. Been only a week

2. If they find stuff they will not announce it, until they are assured it will work for the masses...

3. If they were to saying things, that gives Samsung/Verizon mor einfo to bloot it yet again..
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] jedimyndtryx:
Found someone on Craigslist who will trade me their white non-updated S4 for mine. Can't be without root, just like I couldn't be without a jailbreak. Too much AT&T bloatware and Samsung stuff. Battery life is horrid compared to the 26hrs I was getting with Beanstalk on my Note 2. Can't even restore my game data on Where's My Mickey? "/

Can I assume that once a new exploit is found and a new root method is released for the VZW version that it will also work for the other carrier devices? Been eagerly following this thread for a few days now. Best of luck to you all!
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] tee00max:
Why is everyone comparing battery life to the Note 2? Even with a custom rom it's not even comparable.

---------- Post added at 02:18 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:04 PM ----------

I'm thinking about going back to my Note 2 to tell you the truth.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] vacaloca:
I've sent an S3 for warranty service. They provide free 2-day UPS shipping labels to and from the service center and about a 3-5 day max turnaround for repair.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] KappaAce2010:
If root doesn't come at the end of this week for this ME7, the phone will be sent to back to verizon. I refuse to have a locked phone. This is complete BS.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] paradisewasted:
How does voodoo save the root and reapply it? Seems someone could find the method to this and root other devices? I updated the latest ota and kept root fine with voodoo ota rootkeeper. If I were to backup that app with titanium backup with protected SU copy intact would that not root another device? Just curious.

Nvm u need root to install via titanium. But still curious as to how voodoo works.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] SamuriHL:
I just got finished writing a downgrade, root, upgrade script for the RAZR HD that uses Voodoo's method so I can explain. This is a good lesson for many people to know. And will explain why it will NOT ever work to install root.

Voodoo works by using root privileges to create a backup of the su binary in a special location. It then protects this backup using various linux file system methods that are done through busybox, again, using root privs. You MUST already be rooted in order to do this because it uses the root privs to mount system read/write so that it can then copy su to a backup file, and of course, again to protect it. There's no "magic" going on here. Voodoo then uses the protected su backup to gain root privs after the update, mounts system r/w again, and copies su back to its proper home and sets the proper permissions.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] paradisewasted:
Ok that makes sense. Thanks for sharing that info. I was always curious as to how that works. I haven't gotten too knowledgeable about all this yet and its nice to learn. I had a Razr which I rooted and installed safestrap with CM and Eclipse Roms with fairly good success. I have the S4 rooted and enjoy it as its leaps and bounds better than my old xt912. Looking forward to seeing progess on this endeavor and the best if luck to the ones working in it.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] Jayrod76:
You mean it's not magic!?!?!?!?!? :p

Sent from my Platyraptor extreme ultra maxxxx 4gLTE/GSM/ABC/123 Nick Knack Pattywack Ermegherd GED, MD,RNA,DNA,YMCA Edition S4! Via the 4th dimension....NOW RUNNING ECLIPSE
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] markwebb:
I had a window of opportunity which would have closed next Monday to return: mine went back today. :( I do have a backorder waiting on Samsung for a Dev Edition. :) Am using my Safestrapped Bionic to tie me over and it still works well.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] Rhodesy757:
Imescult note

I could not take not being rooted with a custom rom or the ability to customize the things I have come to love customizing....

i broke down and i am happy to say i just rooted and flashed my first rom on my replacement phone from verizon (brand new phone btw)

for you other guys out there tired of waiting i would suggest doing the same before its too late
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] andybones:
What was wrong with your initial phone?
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] Rebel908:
Has anyone had any luck using Kies to restore the S4 after attempting to flash MDK over ME7? My laptop and Kies would not connect my phone for the emergency firmware recovery.

Essentially what i am asking is for those who have VRUAME7, would it be possible to use Kies to force the phone back into MDK? Assuming one's device was MDK and had a catastrophic mishap with firmware, would Kies be able to recover the phone back to MDK or force ME7?
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] jcase:
It uses chattr to prevent file permission changes
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] Rhodesy757:
I accidentally updated to the new software and was stuck and not able to get back to rooted with custom recovery....

I told vzw that I was missing a lot of phone calls and ever since i updated the software I was not able to hear really good while talking on the phone. And presto new phone sent to me from vzw. I mean how can they say I wasnt experiencing those issues. I am now happily rooted with custom recovery running aokp milestone 2.

I just couldnt take having a locked down phone so I finally called them.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] SamuriHL:
Quiet you! Do I hear a corner calling you? :D
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] joeyx2:
And they don't want us rooting due to all the replacements they end up doing. Looks like to me they get more replacements when they patch something.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] Jayrod76:
Nope..I'm immune to said corners...remember,my pets control them and I somewhat control my pets! :p
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] Harleydroid:
I'm awaiting my phone also. Returned 16 gig for the 32 gig. Will this phone continue to be active in development if theres no exploit? I'm hoping to hook it up to the PC as soon as I get it and root I just hope ROMs don't get phased out or no support.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] :
Were you really having issues with the update?
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] thedeveloper1:
There will be a new update for the S4 at the end of August. This update will make it easier to root and have custom recovery and even flashing back to a previous update (like MDK) and it will be Android 4.3

EDIT: Source: Verizon Chat Rep
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] jova33:
It's this hoping or true? VZW doing a timely update? I don't believe you....
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] Cruiserdude:
Just like with Motorola devices, locked bootloaders make the phones easier to brick and harder to recover given all the crazy workarounds you've gotta do. Which means more warranty returns/exchanges from users who get stuck and can't get their phone working again. Occasionally even experienced users end up with a hard brick, which almost never happens on an unlocked device.

I've never done it, but I have to say if I follow all proper documentation, check hashes, etc and still have a hard brick that's directly caused by or unrecoverable due to the locked bootloader, I'm gonna send it back, because that's a manufacturer issue. Users who can read don't have such issues with unlocked bootloaders, issues caused by software tampering are on you to fix. But if you can't fix it because they intentionally broke it (with a locked and encrypted bootloader) seems like that should be on them.

With all that being said, seems like we're not the primary reason for locked bootloaders, but merely used as the security research team for their goal of enterprise security, or at least the appearance of it. It's not like they don't realize that locked bootloaders cause more returns than unlocked ones, and I can't imagine they're so naive as to think that we'll just give up and use a popular flagship device exactly as it comes outta the box.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] hlxanthus:
Okay, you can't drop that without a source and expect us to buy it.

Sent from my Galaxy S4
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] thedeveloper1:
Yeah I contacted them for like the 4th time, today
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] bjbinc:
I'll eat my shorts

I'm not calling you a liar... I just don't think a chat rep would have that information.

They're prolly spreading misinformation to get us to sit on our hands and wait lol
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] Erisnoob:
A VZW rep said, yes we are going to make it so you can go back on firmware we push ota and easier for you to gain root aceess ????
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] dirtyfingers:
Lol "Verizon Chat Rep"
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] brycekerr:
Please tell me you got a screen shot lmao

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Xparent BlueTapatalk 2
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] eakeller:
Yeah. If I had a nickle for every time I heard something sourced from 'A Verizon Rep' which was complete and utter buIIshlt, I'd be retired and living on my own private island.

This one doesn't even make logical sense.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] :
Its true.

Source: Circuit City cashier
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] Jayrod76:
Hmmm. Well,I have heard a few doozies in my short time messing with Android. I remember this one guy who went by the name iTz_I3urn/Developer/and then IVI™ who came up with some whoppers.

I really think you and them have something in common.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] :
Well think about it. If people are having problems with their phones, they have to be sent back and Verizon wouldn't be able to revert back...? Maybe? Lol .....yeah nvm, too good to be true lol