yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] hlxanthus:
The point here is not to dwell on those few the upgraded in ignorance. Or harp on those who purchased a phone knowing about locked boot loaders and didn't think twice before their choice. What remains is moving forward very soon all new devices will have no choice and we stand at the gates of verizon/samsung tyranny saying this shall not stand. We struggle for our right and desire run our devices as we choose not them. Shall we say instead do as you will and just roll over? No we will rail against the machine and overcome it. Let the mystic code masters work their magic, and if we are inpatient try and grasp the skills ourselves to wrest the bounty for ourselves.

Okay that was rather flowery, but you get my drift. Be patient and let the devs do what they do.

This too shall pass . .

Sent from my Galaxy S4
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] brizey:
I am not in the OTA group...I never OTA anything that I think I may want to exploit later. The dev edition is not really a viable alternative for most folks. For one, it is WAY more expensive because VZW does not offer BYOD service discounts. Makes it like a $1000+ phone. And on top of that, its kind of like, unavailable, lol.

So what happens is that everyone is put into an awkward position. Here are the options:

1. Go to an inferior network. Phone is only as good as is network. AT&T is just as bad for locked devices now. Sprint sucks balls. Hoping that T-Mobile plays some catch-up, but they are not there yet.

2. Buy the dev phone for $1000 (its effective cost because you have to pay the same rate)...if you can get one.

3. Buy an older, more outdated phone like the Note 2 or S3 or GN.

4. Get an S4, don't take any OTAs, and hope that you don't need to use the insurance after the phones start coming back with the update, and enjoy having top drawer hardware on the best network.

For a lot of folks, #4 just makes the most sense. I love playing around with phones, etc., but its like my third position activity behind bodybuilding and cars. I have a Nexus 7 and will likely get the new one, so its not like i won't have something to play with.

My plan? If I have to use my insurance after the phones start coming back updated (assuming there is no exploit), I will put it up for sale, or transfer it to my wife (she has a while left on her contract for her Droid 4), and get whatever the latest and greatest that is out at the time.

I may at some point go to T-Mobile for unlocked devices (assuming they stay on that path) and deal with the network. My corporate BB is Verizon, and I am due for an upgrade in September. So its not like I will be SOL while travelling for work or something. It will probably be adequate around here (I live in the DFW area).
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] pschatz12:
I'm not a developer by any means but once someone smart enough gets their hands on the s4 developer edition couldn't they pull the bootloader off of that phone and then we could use that? Just a thought...
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] SamuriHL:
No.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] Gunthermic:
This can't be done.. the eFuse is blown on our verizon editions so it wil do no good.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] Naddict:
Thread cleaned of childish name calling and off topic/trolling comments.

XDA is a development site, not a support site. If you screw your phone up so bad that you resort to name calling because of a self induced crisis, you should probably seriously consider going back to stock and staying there.

Now, back to development.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] open1your1eyes0:
Thank you Naddict. Completely agree. We can play the blame game all day or we could focus on a more useful method of posting. As I've stated before, what's done is done, this thread's purpose is to help those that are in a certain situation, not to criticize why or how they put themselves there. Now let's get back to motivating each other and get this phone cracked open. :good:
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] mikekid7:
Sorry to be off topic, but i spoke with a rep from verizon and he said the Moto X will be released in the next month or so and it will be fully unlockable. I know, take it for what it's worth, but its another option for people that have or is giving up on the S4.

Sent from ???
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] open1your1eyes0:
Personal note regarding this: If only it had a microSD slot and wasn't a downgrade in specs. :/
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] mikekid7:
Yes it was downgraded, and no sd slot, but still an option. Just saying.

Sent from ???
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] open1your1eyes0:
Agreed. Thank you for the reminder. I think it is a great option for anyone upgrading from a Galaxy Nexus as well. :good:

All others should consider the Verizon Galaxy S4 Developer Edition (if it ever actually comes back into stock).
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] Coolfreak:
Most times when reps say unlockable they are referring to being able to use it overseas.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] jcase:
I've released two for a Motorola device in the last year, give or take a few months, and am preparing a release for Motorola in the coming months when timing allows. Point is, even if bliss no longer has the desire/time (which i assume time could be a big factor), its not a reason to claim that no one will accomplish anything.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] andybones:
dev edition seems to be back in stock ATM
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] jova33:
There are things that can't be prevented, like warranty and insurance replacements. When those start coming preloaded with the newest update, then it's not the customer's fault it has the update.

Also, the thing I'm really worried about is this will hinder development and ROM development.

And the "don't buy a locked device" argument is irritating because, what phone on VZW has been released in the past 365 days unlockable? Are there any projected? The last phone sold on VZW that came unlockable out the box was a Galaxy Nexus, which came out 2011, and all others needed an exploit. And I don't even care about the Moto X, so even if it comes unlockable, it's not the latest and greatest, and has a smaller screen than my GNex.

Not everyone has the option to just leave VZW. My wife works underground, and VZW is the only service in this area to put the doobops underground to make cell phones work, so moving to a new service would mean my wife doesn't have a cell phone from 6-3, and no personal use on government computers, and her work is 20% actually working, 80% doing nothing, not by choice, there's just not that much work to be done.

And, no, I didn't take the update. I read up on everything, purchased the phone, rooted, blocked the update, then put a recovery and AOSP ROM on it.

Edit: but yeah, if you were rooted, read up about the new update, then went ahead and updated, then you're an idiot. I'm only speaking for those of us who don't have many options other than VZW and may need a warranty replacement in the future.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] SamuriHL:
Looking forward to it as the current builds for M and HD are not rootable by any known menthods.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] jcase:
Doubtful if it will work on either of those devices, free free to take this to PM and we can confirm.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] open1your1eyes0:
Wow! Finally. :good:

Personal note: Very tempting. I'm debating if I should get it and then sell my regular VZW S4 and backup VZW Galaxy Nexus (which I don't use) to make up the cost.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] brycekerr:
I may wait to see the off contract X pricing and end up doing the same if it's too high

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Xparent BlueTapatalk 2
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] markwebb:
got it!!!! arriving tomorrow. :)

Maybe a new thread should be started for the Dev Edition with explicit instructions on WHAT and HOW to keep it at this build? It will help others maintain their phone..and sanity. :)
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] equake:
You already have an updated status? I'm still waiting on my status update but then I took the default shipping method.

Hopefully its only a couple of days.

---------- Post added at 10:26 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:24 AM ----------

Better hurry. Looks like it takes them a month to get stock to the date. And their notification system stinks since I have not updates ever since it was back ordered.

my 2 cents
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] markwebb:
Yes, as I had a backorder hold (but no credit card info) and it ignored that: had to go in and create a new order.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] equake:
You might want to take this to another thread that I started before the mods get angry lol.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] hallstevenson:
Ouch !

---------- Post added at 02:01 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:51 PM ----------

Who believes that VZW will ever have unlockable bootloaders on any of their phones going forward ?

---------- Post added at 02:06 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:01 PM ----------

That person can surely show proof of root without giving away how they achieve it. Sorry, but this is a case of believing it when they see it.

I've only had HTC phones before Samsung and I don't believe HTC, for example, ever allowed flashing older bootloaders (I seem to recall an exception with the Eris but it wasn't intentional). To think that Samsung, and other manufacturers, wouldn't plug that hole eventually was foolish.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] strickforce:
Welcome to the pro's - so I bought my S4 from Best Buy last week, the guy in the store updated it without me even knowing. Took it in today to exchange, he said - and I quote: 'need root huh?' hahahahhaa

so we talked for a bit - he let me know this latest update is bad for many reasons besides just root. he said that 'normal' people are returning their devices on a daily basis because the update causes the phone to run slower and use more battery. I noticed this on my S4, but didnt since I had it from the start couldnt really compare to how it was before.

With that said - he swapped the phone out for me, I IGNORED the update, rooted/romed and im good to go! :)
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] hallstevenson:
It would be interesting to hear from a VZW employee 'cause it sure sounds like a memo has went out advising people at corporate stores as well as retailers to "set up" customer's phone and initiating the update. I've never heard of VZW phones being done this way in the past...
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] mlin:
I bought mine last week from Best Buy and informed the rep that I only wanted the phone if it was running the old firmware. It was funny, she asked why and I debated how honest I should be with her. I told her straight up the reason, she smiled and said "so you really like to get the most out of your phone, huh?"

She mentioned nothing of having to update the device and let me walk out with 2 MDK S4s.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] AshyKnuttz:
I bought mine 3 days ago so I returned it and I just bought the developer edition...no shipping info yet but if that didn't work I can still go back and buy one without the update now :) Glad it wasn't too late for me afterall
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] AsaSpades:
I don't understand why people are making this thread way longer than it needs to be. Good for you if your returning your S4 or selling it for a Dev version, different carrier, or a different phone. Or who cares what you think about Verizon and/or Samsung for locking the bootloader and closing the root exploit with ME7. Start a new thread if you want to chat about how you feel about the companies or how much you are going to leave Verizon or the S4, none of that is helping. If you aren't adding to the bounty, or have any new news on an exploit or are offering information which could be used for an exploit for THIS phone, why make this thread so long? This causes people to add more posts about things that have already been said because there are so many BS posts. Sorry for ranting on, but with that being said I will put $10 on the Root/Recovery Bounty.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] Southern_mind:
Well those of you thinking of calling Verizon to get a replacement device will be surprised when you get it updated. Just got mine and it was running me7 I had taken the update but my phone was running hot so I went to local store and talk to the manager and he send me a 32gb to replace my 16gb one. I took the update to see what the update was like since I was getting a replacement. But the replacement came updated so my SOL at least now I have a 32gb version.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] dobo84:
So you got a replacement 32 gig ? I'm thinking most of the 16gig replacements might not already be updated. I will find out tomorrow I have one

coming in mine took a dunk so had to use assurance.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] theresin:
(I'm sure this has already been addressed/beaten to death..but)

I worked in Verizon's call centers for 2 years ... I can assure you - no lowly rep would have access to information like that. We weren't usually aware of major updates being pushed until they were actually being pushed. Not to mention all communications are saved/monitored/noted and reviewed.

So like most have said, I don't really believe this for one minute. It would be great if I were proven wrong, but I won't hold my breath.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] Southern_mind:
Yeah I got the 32gb one.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] Cruiserdude:
So if the replacements are already coming updated, I guess it's time to order a new one RIGHT NOW if you're like me and have been waiting. I have a 32gb S3, if I ever need a replacement and ME7 still isn't cracked, I can always sell the replacement and get a dev edition or just roll back to my S3.

Guess it's time to pull the trigger if I want an S4 that I KNOW I can use how I like.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] dobo84:
See and thats technically a newer device.. man this might make my decision easier here in the next month on the next device
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] hallstevenson:
If you tell the person you're working with up-front, why would they push the issue ? I'm guessing - and I would probably do the same thing - that you'd have cancelled the sale vs let them force the update on you, yes ? They will surely "forget" to update one here and there and for 99% of their customers, it's a non-issue. They'll update their phones later if not done in the store and be none the wiser that this update doesn't allow them to "hack" their phone.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] Tada10:
Does this bounty not cover just root only? Let me know I would be happy for just a root!

Sent from my Galaxy S4
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] theresin:
As I mentioned in a previous post, I worked at the Chandler, AZ VZW Call Center for two years (and 6 months retail before that). Not sure if current policy has changed, but the whole "updating it out of the box" thing going on is probably a lot less malicious than people want to believe. VZW Reps are told that updates are available, what issues they fix, and are under the impression (rightly so) that customers want the latest & greatest... hence they update.

The reps aren't stupid, quite a few of them have rooted/exploited personal phones as well. If you're faced with the possibility of your new device being updated in the store, just tell them to stop. Tell them you want the bugs in the new update to be worked out before you're stuck with it, tell them you're a "budding" techie and want to do things like that yourself... or just be upfront with them. At the worst, deny the transaction ON THE SPOT .. you'll be surprised how many reps would "forget" to update the phone if forced with having to cancel a sale.

Just my 2 cents on previous experience.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] bfmetcalf:
The bounty is for root+recovery or bootloader unlock. Just root won't get you any of the bounty.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] Tada10:
Well can we add a root only bounty?

Sent from my Galaxy S4
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] bfmetcalf:
You can start a different thread for it, but it has been mentioned here that it is not what this thread is about a quite a few pages back, so I don't think they will add it to this one.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] theresin:
No, it does not. It has been suggested by the OP, among others, that if people would like to so, they may create a separate bounty thread for root ALONE. AFAIK this has not been done yet.

Please be advised, however, that any contributions you have promised to this current bounty (either part A, or part B) are binding - any additional bounty you offer for a "root only" solution would be just that - additional, not in place of.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] Tada10:
I asked beans to make a thread hopefully he can make one. :)

Sent from my Galaxy S4
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] hallstevenson:
You must have missed my more recent post on that topic. Look ^^ up ^^ there.

I'm just wondering if this is a NEW policy, especially in relation to the S4. The number of S4 owners with VZW is undoubtedly many millions. If a tiny subset of that number of people who post here includes quite a few references to store reps doing this, it sounds different than what was done in the past.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] JamesPumaEnjoi:
Attention Thread: I am receiving a warranty replacement tomorrow and I will let everyone know if it is an updated phone or not....it might be our best bet until someone cracks the BL....ill report back when I receive the phone
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] :
What was defective with your previous phone??
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] JamesPumaEnjoi:
Bluetooth
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] jova33:
So if I get a warranty replacement with the ME7 update, can I return it and say it's defective because I don't want the update and it conflicts with many of my apps that I've paid for?
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] cybertec69:
From the looks of it, no one will be bale to Root/Unlock this device, Samsung and Verizon have made sure of it.:crying:
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] open1your1eyes0:
Guys, I'm going to have to ask everyone to prevent any posts not directly related to the bounty, questions about development, or assistance in development for any of the topic-related methods. This thread is getting too large and will become an unorganized off-topic mess if we carry on with general posts about criticism of each other, Verizon, Samsung, or anything else related or unrelated. From now on, please remember if your post is not on topic, it will be submitted for deletion. To keep this thread as clean as possible I'm going make a list below of acceptable posts and I'd like to ask anyone that sees a post not part of the list below to click the report button on the post so it gets deleted as soon as possible. I appreciate everyone's assistance and cooperation to keep this thread on topic.

Respectfully,

Open1Your1Eyes0

List of acceptable posts

New bounty submission or increase of current bounty

Questions or assistance in development of a root, recovery, or bootloader unlock method

Questions and answers regarding bootloaders on this device

Questions and answers regarding the nature of lockdown on this device

Questions and answers regarding eFuse/qFuse and emmc write-protects

Questions and answers regarding kernel and bootloader-related exploits

If you're working on such a method then any status updates you have on it

Remember, absolutely

NO criticism

is allowed of any kind.

If you're not sure if what you're about to post fits into the description of one of the above please PM me and I will give you a simple yes or no answer. Upon that answer you may submit or withhold your post.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] Naddict:
Any more non-development and/or non-contributory posts in this thread will result in immediate infractions.

Take the off topic stuff elsewhere.

Final warning folks, troll at your own peril from here on out.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] JamesPumaEnjoi:
Its only been 14 days since release you have to give it time
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] AsaSpades:
:good: Some people still don't listen.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] Big Dawg 23:
The phone will not have the update. I just got a new yesterday and it continues to try and push the update.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] hallstevenson:
No, they're effectively unrelated.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] jlegros:
I'm in for $20 on an unlocked bootloader.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] open1your1eyes0:
As per disclaimer point #2 placing you on both bounties. Remember that you only pay one not both but you must be included on both lists.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] jlegros:
I can do 20 each. Sorry to be a pain in the a**.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] open1your1eyes0:
No problem, you're not the first and surely won't be the last. ;)
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] jcase:
Yes it does help, kinda hard to test/implement either without having root.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] Rebel908:
Are any of the devs working on root+recovery looking for guinea pigs? I'm more than willing to volunteer.

And on another note, has anyone read Dan's post on his blog about qfuses and Qualcomm processors? Maybe that would be of some help to us here? I know its Motorola but I would assume the architecture would be similar.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] :
But me down for $10 on both, thanks!
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] SamuriHL:
The motoapocalypse exploit used a bug in the trusted zone on the Motorola Qualcomm phones to execute the code that blows the qFuse during an unlock. The trusted zone code was updated to block the exploit. I believe that on the consumer S4 phones, a qFuse is already blown to lock the phone. This is how the Motorola OMAP phones worked and were/are impossible to unlock. Loki worked to exploit a bug in the bootloader code that allowed unsigned code to be flashed. I suspect that it's possible that another Loki type exploit, but, a full unlock seems out of reach.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] KennyG123:
Thread cleaned again!

Please refer to this post

Any posts not pertinent to the bounty will be met with warnings and infractions

Thank you for your cooperation

Friendly Neighborhood Moderator
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] hallstevenson:
That's really not what he's asking (I think). It sounded to me like asking if an exploit could be used to accomplish both.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] Cruiserdude:
I've asked this before, but I'm still curious if ANYONE knows the method which Samsung themselves would use to revert a device to a previous build with older keys. I understand that it's unlikely they would feel the need to do this, and if they did they could just recompile an old build using their new keys, though that would of course be a new build.

I'm just thinking that they've got to have some way, and possibly Verizon as well, of reverting any device to an older firmware, and wondering if anyone has a clue how they would do this. I don't know if anything can be done through JTAG, whether this would require some sort of encrypted "master key", or whether they'd use proprietary hardware like one of their Anyway jigs.

I'm just brainstorming, but I feel like the downgrade route may be a bit more promising than the true bootloader unlock for now. I still have hope that an ultimate solution will be found, but getting everyone back in the playground so to speak is important as well, to keep interest in this device high and growing the community.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] Rebel908:
Dan has mentioned the existence of 2 exploits which can produce our desired result, though I don't have anywhere near that knowledge to make use of it.

At this point, it may be just me, but what is the difference of root+recovery versus Unlocked bootloader?