yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] Rebel908:
I don't see the need for a spreadsheet, and I'm going to reply with the following information.

=

Buying directly from Verizon Wireless the device is either 249.99 (less 50 from a mail in rebate card) for 16GB,299.99 (less 50 from a mail in rebate card), 649.99 or 699.99 (16/32)

Amazon is the only other retailer who normally offers the device at 649.99, Best Buy requires price match. This is also for the retail device that is locked.

As an unlimited data user myself, the only way I circumvented the heavy cost was because my family does not see the use in updating phones so I get to use their upgrades. Other than that, buying the device un-subsidized from Verizon is a ridiculous notion.

The assertion about BYOD is awkward on Verizon because its not like the GSM standard where you slip in a sim to a phone. BYOD was not the best choice of phrasing because of the closed nature of Verizon's CDMA network and the lack of inter-operability between LTE bands. Even the process of activating second hand phones on Verizon is tedious because of the activation requirement.

As such -

On contract - 199.99 or 249.99 after rebate (16/32 GB) locked devices

Off contract - 649.99 or 699.99, locked devices

From Samsung (only off contract) - 649.99 with booloader unlock (16GB Black Mist only)

In short, if you are buying the device outright there really is no reason to do it from Verizon. Granted one could argue the semantics of whether or not you should be able to unlock the device after the length of the contract. Its ultimately semantic BS, I personally don't think its a warranty issue, otherwise Google would not make it so easy to return their devices. It's a control issue over their devices, how their network is used, and the perceived experience of their network, which is why Verizon bought that one page WSJ ad to call out AT&T.

TL;DR - Verizon should offer the Dev edition directly from its stock, but since it doesn't, you should buy the Dev Edition from Samsung; semantics of ownership.

Also price links -

http://www.verizonwireless.com/b2c/...t&action=viewPhoneDetail&selectedPhoneId=6754

http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-Galax...44&sr=8-1&keywords=verizon+wireless+galaxy+s4

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Samsung...id=1218904353363&skuId=8818481&contract_desc=

http://www.samsung.com/us/mobile/cell-phones/SCH-I545ZKDVZW
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] jeromeh:
I got my S4 today. It shipped 7/18 and it still has MDK
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] eakeller:
This thread is all too reminiscent of the struggle we went through with the Droid DNA earlier this year. I really feel for y'all stuck without root/recovery.

That being said, I'm thinking of going back to my Note 2 and selling my S4 because I can't get used to the screen size. The S4 is rooted/ROMed at the moment. Are people paying a premium for these phones in such a state, or should I revert to stock before selling?

Any opinions appreciated, thanks.

Sent from my phone
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] mrtruckincowboy:
I would sell it rooted if i were you
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] eskomo:
Corporate customers have little to no affect on this. Neither does replacing bricked phones. A bricked phone is just unbricked and resent out as a refurb. Simple and very very low cost. Shipping mainly. WiFi tether is such a small % its silly to consider.

Google wallet interferes with Verizon's own service for NFC purchases. But is it enough to warrent a lock down? Maybe not.

The government has it hands all over Verizon's network. The government conspiracy seems a little far fetched but with all the news about surveillance it wouldn't surprise me. Verizon is deeply in bed with the government. So maybe it could have an effect.

The modding community is so small in comparison to the total # of S4's, I'm not sure how much of an impact it could have on this decision.

Either way it is something we may never know the answer to.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] rushless:
The only things that have effect is customer service costs for messed up devices, unlimited users abusing tethering and IT leader's perception of the security of the device. The mod dev community may be small, but the actual people that root is big enough to cause customer service cost issues.

It will be interesting to see if the Note 3 is locked down at launch and if the devs can create a stable package for the S4, post update. Again, if we just get root, most of us will be happy since we can at least kill updates and bloat.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] nnnnr14:
I'd be more than happy with just root, over the years I've kind of lost my likeness to flashing stuff... :/ but we're OFF TOPIC...:silly:
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] dorioo:
... Until Android moves forward and your phone is artificially 'stuck' with an old version. Less than happy.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] droidstyle:
There should be no issue with how much data folks use. Thats bs if I ever herd any...there is not enough unlimited accounts left on verizon to make a huge impact on the network anyway. T-mobile, Sprint, Comcast, Media-Com, Time Warner, and all other ISP's do not care about data usage. Its just a monopoly for Verizon to capitalize on because they have the best network.

Of course the Note3 will be locked down...why wouldnt it? The S3 and Note2 were so why would it change?

---------- Post added at 08:53 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:49 AM ----------

I would much rather have the Note2 anyway...unlockable, bigger screen, smoother, and better battery life.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] thornev:
Put me down for $20 please. I upgraded my phone before I saw the ME7 issue. Bummer.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] Cruiserdude:
It's been explained many times in here why we're not gonna see just root, I wish people would quit asking. I understand it can be frustrating having to wait for it, being unable to do the basic tasks of preventing further updates, freezing bloat, blocking ads, etc. But IF it's even been achieved, it would still be unwise to release it at this point. The majority of users on here want more than just root, and releasing a method before anything else is available just gives Verizon more time to patch it in the next update. For all we know, Samsung could surprise us all and drop 4.3 here quite soon, and we know an update to support Verizon's AWS LTE is coming at some point.

So, it's clear that there are some pretty big updates likely to drop in the coming months, and we don't want to give them a head start on more security before the gains are even worth it to most users. I understand that there are those who would be happy with just root, but most want more, and root alone is only of marginal benefit to the needs of this community. Development is fully dependant on the ability to flash things, and once we have that you'll see the method released. I'm hoping for a full unlock, as many of us want to flash kernels and proper AOSP roms, but I understand that even just recovery allows the flashing of mods and roms, enabling some degree of development.

But that is why the bounty is set up the way it is, with the bootloader as the big prize, recovery still a significant amount, and nothing for root alone. Just be patient and hopefully we'll all be better off in the long run.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] markwebb:
Understood and makes sense. I do have a return window which closes this week, so I will go that route as it is a sure thing. However, it doesn't mean I can't come back once this is finalized. :)
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] k1mu:
My company doesn't approve/certify devices, but the software we use (Good) does enforce a policy which states that the device cannot be rooted or jailbroken. If the e-mail software (Good) sees a rooted device, it refuses to start up and locks itself, requiring the user to get an unlock code after they're chastised for storing corporate data on a rooted device.

My phone doesn't run Good since the greedy jerks at Verizon Wireless detect that you're using that to read your corporate e-mail using a standard data plan and block it, telling you that you need a corporate data plan to do that.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] rdcamero:
Security is all ways being looked at and updated. In the future updates could gain the ability to over ride root and custom recovery. The update would restore the app and reinstall the factory recovery.

They could say that this is necessary for the security of the network. They could also blacklist any rooted or unlocked device. The carrier all ways has the upper hand. I don't see this happening but if they feel that this is there only way to lock down devices it could happen.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] SamuriHL:
When I activated my S4 GPE with AT&T last night, I told them I was leaving VZW due to their policy of not allowing unlocked devices on their network (obviously save the dev phones) and the reps just looked at each other, laughed, and said "why would they do that? That's stupid." I agree. LMAO :D
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] KidJoe:
Your company choose to setup Good that way... enabling that setting they are in effect "approving" only non-rooted devices.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] hallstevenson:
Yes, because ATT Wireless is the epitome of "openness".
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] SamuriHL:
I didn't say that, but, they at least allowed me to bring an unlocked device to the party.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] ecen92:
All the benefits without restrictions is the name of the game, I'd be interested in looking at that thread let me know when you post it! Thx.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] Cruiserdude:
Eh, "are unable to prevent you from using an unlocked device" is more like it. Does anyone know if carriers are allowed/able to control what devices can access an LTE network? Is it like GSM, where it's basically an open standard and they have to allow every compatible device that hasn't been specifically blacklisted, or is it like CDMA, where it's proprietary and only devices on their whitelist will work?

Remember that Verizon intends to go fully LTE for everything by 2015 or so, and start to phase out their then-legacy CDMA network following that. So just wondering if they'll be able to have the same control over devices they do now, or if it'll be more like a GSM carrier today?
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] Rebel908:
Unless interoperability is required, while Verizon and AT&T use the same spectrum, they use different portions of it, and unless they are mandated to do it, they will most likely not support jumping between carriers.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] jcase:
Good is a prime example why companies want locked devices, Good is easily circumvented with a rooted/unlocked device.

Exchange email? Try running it over a VPN? I never had an issue on Verizon with email, but I generally used a VPN.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] andybones:
Out of pure curiosity.

How many of those, plan to sell their rooted SG4 for the Dev Edition once it's back in stock?
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] SamuriHL:
The spectrum VZW uses for LTE does not allow them to control devices. It's an open standard like GSM. However, until CDMA is completely eliminated and there are LTE only phones, VZW can continue to exert control over them. Not a great incentive to remove CDMA capabilities from the phones. Besides, you're talking about two years from now. By then I'll be ready for my next phone and since I'm not on a contract, I can go to any carrier I choose at any point in time. How quickly VZW phases out CDMA from their phones remains to be seen. Once VoLTE is rolled out next year things could change, but, we don't know yet how that'll play out. I'm simply not willing to wait around for 2 more years with locked devices while they sort it out.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] k1mu:
It's that possibility of somehow breaching the Good container that causes us to look for and reject rooted devices.

Unfortunately, that's the only mobile solution the company supports. No VPN from BYOD.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] bajasur:
At my company, we cannot force employees to use exchange or good for enterprise, etc unless we purchased the phone for the employee. Therefore those who have "company phones" can't root their devices. This should be expected on a business phone.

Those who do not have a company phone are free to do as they please with their personal phones.

This could be an anomaly but I would find that hard to believe
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] SamuriHL:
That's how my company is. But this is also why I'm a huge proponent of virutalized environments. Secure the business VM and allow the consumer to do whatever they want on their side. If the VM is heavily encrypted, root on the consumer side would have no impact.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] musicfreak190:
I am rooted already but a part of me does not feel right about new s4 users not able to root... People will loose interest in development.

Is there any news of any hope on the matter?
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] nazzo123:
i was thinking about it
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] Easton999GS:
up my donation to another $10 so its $50, this **** is taking too long. I need a repair but i dont want an upgraded phone, i like my roms.

AT&T User.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] tee00max:
Yeah I mean it looks like no progress at all is being made on it. Hopefully we get a word soon. My mom had an S3 and has had it since day 1 and I know for a fact that she hasn't upgraded because she doesn't know how to probably lol. When I go to my hometown if hers isn't updated I might switch them.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] andybones:
IMO, if a method is made already, why release it?

1) get more bounty $, they deserve it..

2)Wait for the next big Verizon update, then release it.

If released now all it will do if gives those root who don't have it now, but will ruin chances once a new OTA comes out as Verizon has time to patch it.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] Kaiya_FL:
Sadly mine installed the OTA before I could root but I am considering selling it and getting the Dev Edition if it ever comes back in stock.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] JamesPumaEnjoi:
Progress is being made every second of the day....there's many many people working on it look a few tens of pages back and you'll see that....people are being guinea pigs for exploits on twitter as well... Just read some posts and you'll see that
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] tee00max:
Understandable. I just didn't feel like reading through all the talk about Verizon and them locking their phones down. I will keep up with it more if it was just talk about progress only.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] JamesPumaEnjoi:
I hear you on that trust me I do but something like this is going to take time...lots and lots of time and testing its only been a week or so since it was released
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] tee00max:
O ok gotcha. See I just made the switch from the note 2 and had no idea this was going on until I did a little research. I didn't know how long this was going on.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] xs11e:
As I posted elsewhere:

There's a general feeling here (shared by me, I might add) that the devs can do anything but be aware that Samsung software engineers are pretty darn competent, they may have locked down the phone permanently and forever.

It just may be uncrackable, let's hope we get results soon but if we don't I'll understand why..... <SIGH>

NOTE: We're not going to get many (if any!) progress reports, someone will find the fix and post it or they'll be too busy working on the fix to waste time posting a progress report.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] SamuriHL:
Just because progress is not mentioned in this thread every couple hours, does not mean TONS of work isn't going on behind the scenes. Developers (I am one myself) will ignore all pleas for information while they're working on stuff so they can focus on getting it done. You may not hear about progress, but, I can assure you, it's being worked on whether we hear about it in this thread or not. Patience is required.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] :
People just need to be patient. Its not the end of the world.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] tee00max:
I have patience. Trust me I understand how much was has to be put in in order to fulfill these types of requests. The device is running fine without root and custom rom right now so I'm good.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] hallstevenson:
What big update ? They really don't announce them much ahead of time... You can't wait 1 month, 2 months, 6 months just in case they might have an update coming.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] SamuriHL:
No one really believes 4.3 is coming in the next couple months for the VZW S4 do they? I hope not as you'll be disappointed. Maybe by January if you're lucky.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] rdcamero:
It may not work with the next big update.Don't think that just because this may not be released by then that they will not make changes to lock it down tighter and fix vulnerabilities that they have discovered.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] Redflea:
How are things going with this?
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] mlin:
While I see your point, I don't think software engineers intentionally release a product with known exploits. Whenever software is released, in most cases I believe the company thinks the software is as secure as can be. It's not until a group of hackers go sifting through the code that an exploit is found. My point is, some times you don't find something until you go out and look for it.

On another note, I had an idea today and not sure if it's possible or not but here goes:

Do you need to pass through the bootloader signature check when running a ROM from the SD card? If we cannot get around this bootloader/recovery business would it be possible to run custom ROMs from the SD. Albeit, I'm sure root would be required to run such software (e.g. BootManager) but it seems like a root exploit will be easier to obtain than an unlocked or circumvented bootloader.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] hallstevenson:
What's the saying, if man built it, man can break (crack) it?
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] SamuriHL:
With root, it might be possible for someone to create a safestrap solution that uses KEXEC (kernel exec) to 2nd init a new kernel into memory. Thus bypassing the secure bootloader altoghether. That's how things work on the locked Motorola devices. But it does require root.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] Jayrod76:
Which is EXACTLY what I am afraid of...It works,but just ain't the same. I do miss Safestrap from time to time though.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] BuGSmx3:
I hope someone finds this soon... I know a lot of people that need it!
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] GreenGoblin227:
in for 10 on each total of 20 via paypal...

lets get crackin!
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] ddemlong:
Heck with a 3500+ bounty you would think that maybe we could get us an insider at Samsung for unlock info.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] gatesjunior:
I have the deodexed version all complete. It will also automatically install the new baseband during the install as well :)

I have uploaded it to the holding site, getting ready to post link soon for fully working ME7 rooted, deodexed rom with all the new stuff and fully functional with new baseband. Obviously not with the new kernel, but otherwise, fully in tact and stock.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] Tada10:
Will this help the ones that already updated and lost root?

Sent from my Galaxy S4
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] shabbypenguin:
80k job with im sure good benefits or a 3k bounty.....
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] gatesjunior:
Unfortunately no, but once the new kernel has been installed, etc.. This will require an exploit to be found, etc.. I can someone that is a mod, please remove my 5 minute post and edit restriction, it is driving me crazy.. :)
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] Tool Belt:
Yeah cuz 3500 is worth throwing away a career that probably pays 20 times that annually.

Sent from S7
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] asdecker:
I will for sure..
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] dobo84:
Had to get submit a claim today on my device...guess mine is not a active lol and don't like swimming. I hope the warranty is not already updated other wise its going up for sale. If I am going to have locked bootloader might as well be by the best...good ole motorola
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] lycwolf:
So, would there be a way to Odin a pre-rooted image on a updated phone?
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] dobo84:
If it was that easy would have been done already and no sense for this thread. The new boot loader checks for changed images I believe
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] sstingrae:
Keep us posted...
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] mikekid7:
About what?

Sent from ???
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] HowardZ:
Hmmm, perhaps if the signing keys get leaked.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] dobo84:
This is some what new to Samsung any how , From my understanding its actually quite complicated. Samsung included

some added security in both the software and In the actual hardware. This is why we will never have a official bootloader unlock. The best you can hope for is a workaround similar to loki or even bootstrap like the galaxy tabs had back when.....Its a all new era we might as well get used to the fact we are the exception and not the rule when it comes to carrier phones and marketing.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] droidstyle:
No...it was already tested by the creator of this thread.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] Cruiserdude:
Well if that happened we could just flash whatever we want as long as we signed it first with their key, possibly including even a bootloader. But it would also make the phone quite vulnerable, heads would roll due to lost corporate sales, and they would immediately change their keys and push a new OTA ASAP that blacklists the old keys and has new ones.

I'm sure there are a few things that could be leaked that would help us out, and who knows, that may yet happen. But I'm almost certain it won't be the signing keys, I don't know of that ever happening, and no company would ever do it intentionally. That's a pretty huge security fail if it ever happened.

Well I'm sure they've dropped source, but it's the new kernel that kills root and carries the new bootloader. I'd imagine it's possible to rebase kernels with the ME7 source without causing issues, but I believe Samsung unified the source for this just like the S3, which means it'd be far easier to just base off of the Sprint and/or T-Mobile sources. Someone who's actually looked at the source can confirm or deny this, and shed a little more light on the issue.
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] jova33:
So what was leaked for the S3 to get an unlocked bootloader?
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] theresin:
Regarding the VZW Galaxy S3: A unsecured bootloader (that was created prior to the device launch) was leaked by an "African-Canadian Sock Monkey". An exploit based off the unsecured bootloader was created, as was the front-end application "Casual". The S3 was intended to be locked down, and had it not been for divine intervention, it would probably still be locked today.

In other words, don't count on that happening here. Odds of that happening again are probably similar to winning the lottery, or one of us having an affair with Kate Middleton (her royal something-or-other).

:good:
[Verizon Samsung Galaxy S 4] eakeller:
That's a tough choice, if forced to decide between the two. I'd probably bag the Duchess of Cambridge just for the bragging rights....definitely a more exclusive pool than lottery winners.