yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Off-topic] percy_g2:
I didn't say make me or the users who have complain the member of that community and you are saying " I know fine well that this group of users would be befriended by those who want more leniency. They'd try to help their friends"

Same goes for mods they always try to ignore the report of there fellow mods(friend) .

Users (all are the users here ,i know but i mean users with only RD,RC,RT ,junior member and senior member title)community
[Off-topic] K.A.:
It's a bit confusing when checking who posted last. Percy_g2 v Pulser_g2 :p
[Off-topic] pulser_g2:
Ah OK.

I am fairly certain that those involved would have been the subject of numerous warnings about their conduct previously.

Regarding the clarity of why, unfortunately mods aren't permitted to give anyone else details about someone else's account. Otherwise we have a situation where other people are enquiring and trying to pry and break the confidentiality there is between xda and the user.

If bans were issued, I would suggest they were issued in response to behaviour listed as being inappropriate in the new guidance thread, or as a result of breaking the main forum rules, which ALL still apply to the office topic forum.

Specifically, no multiple accounts, no trolling, no spamming. I am fairly sure from memory a number of them were trolling and/or spamming, or generally acting I'm maturely and in a manner expected on an image board dedicated to trolling...

Again though, I'm not aware of anyone there being given a significant ban without there being a very long history of refusing to follow rules etc.
[Off-topic] pulser_g2:
I'd suggest you consider if mods do that. Let me give you a few facts first though...

Mods cannot delete reported posts.

Mods actions on reported posted are visible

It's rather difficult for them to go ignoring reports, since it will be there forever more :)
[Off-topic] Babydollll:
We cannot as non moderators, speak to which reports get ignored and which don't.

Pulser has pointed out that much more than the offence in question gets taken into account when deciding what action is to be taken regarding the issue in question at the time.

A "users group" (so to speak) could not possibly have access to this extra info (nor should they) and issues that may be being resolved behind the scenes, may look like they are not.

While I appreciate your willingness to try and sort out the issues brought up in this thread....

It's just not feasible for the reasons specified in my post and those of the other participants in this thread.
[Off-topic] percy_g2:
Again I want to explain

I don't want that community to be higher that MC ,all I want is Users get brief report on there reports, that users community can take the report directly to a Mod or SM (who have rights to take actions against the mods ).

See ^ anything wrong, no power just that community will listen to users(I have explained about this word earlier ) and pass on the report to a SM .
[Off-topic] K.A.:
Yup, mods cannot disclose the reasons to other users but the problem stemmed from the user who got banned/infracted providing us with the reason which didn't seem to make sense. Like roof got banned for quoting a banned member. Sure, the banned member called MTM a f*gt, but he didn't quote the post exclusively for that nor because of that. And I guess CTM's following post with the reason AND a direct ban is what upset most members.

---------- Post added at 02:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:56 PM ----------

See, what you're suggesting is to make a group of people, higher than the normal user, but below the forum moderator. Why add an extra class of people? I, for one, would rather PM a Moderator directly than go through the group of those 3-4 users.
[Off-topic] pulser_g2:
Indeed, wouldn't work due to confidentiality issues.

As you said, I believe the mods on xda are rather lenient. In general. Site wide.

Certainly people get away with things for much longer than I'd let them.

Luckily for them, I have more to do than trawl the reported posts. But anyone who has dealt with the mods will realise that they're users too and really they just want everyone to get along happily.

They're more than willing to give you a chance, unless you act in a way that shows that chance is undeserved. This doesn't apply if you have exhausted your supply of chances though.

And I think that's the issue - a number of people were trying to push the boundaries, see what was acceptable, and pushed them too far. They were then disappointed they didn't get yet another chance, like they had in the past.

This seems to be because they all had track record of the same activities. I don't care what someone's history looks like, unless there's a reason to look... I don't go looking for people to hunt... And the mods don't have time to either.

But if someone with considerable history doesn't use common sense and keep their head lower, I really cannot say anything other than that they should learn their lesson, and not deliberately push the boundaries.

It's easier to ask where the boundary is, than to walk until you cross it.
[Off-topic] pulser_g2:
Users have an unalterable right to confidentiality of any report they make.

I frankly see no difference between this and the trade union "shop steward" system.

And trust me, that doesn't work... Have a look at the criticisms of it... Stewards who try to get away with anything, because they're the steward. Stewards exerting power over other workers by nature of them being their defender.

Please read up on the issues with a shop steward system, as it will explain more than I have time to here
[Off-topic] a.cid:
Why not directly send it to the MC? They are afterall, made from SM's. And they are the committee that listens to users for actions against mods.

If a mod keeps a users report/history/infractions confidential, why should they be treated any differently? I for one, wouldn't like action taken against me to be public knowledge (Doesn't mean that I'm against the action itself. I sure can accept my mistakes and their punishments if any, I just wouldn't want them to be public)
[Off-topic] percy_g2:
okay ,i have read up on that issue .But there is one plus point on this MC can get more brief reports on the actions/issues and it will help them solve it fairly .( You can get some more mods in MC and ask them to give brief report on the reports)

As you mentioned in some last posts mods have reports pending until they solve it(in past i reported a PM which till date no MOD have given me response).Tried PM you , PG101 nothing happened on that issue ,at last i moved on.

Personally i have no issues now so don't think i have some (its just i had some problems in past ) and best solution i have got is to get out of OT forums (suggested by Woody) .

---------- Post added at 03:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:24 PM ----------

I have tried that and got ignored (i don't care about that now)

I wrote two long PM's to pulser_g2 and PG101 after that (i think pulser was busy and PG101 didn't took interest in replying to me).

I know you and you have replied very kindly to my reports ,i respect that.
[Off-topic] roofrider:
You sure this is how it happens every time? Do it the right way, warn and infract someone before banning him even if it is only a one minute ban.

I've seen a few times in the past where a FSM would only infract/warn someone for a post that is out of line whereas an SM would ban him immediately, that is not consistent moderation in my book. If i'm not mistaken you did ban powerpoint45 yesterday for his post (i have not looked at his post history and am not judging him here), i would never have banned him for that particular post even if i do not agree with it's content, i'm pretty sure Archer wouldn't have banned him either..but SMs and higher ups seem to think and act otherwise. You made an example of him and then warned everyone else in the thread not to troll and go OT, instead what should have happened was he along with everyone else in this thread should have been given a common warning (like FS did when he didn't want to see swear words with "*") and he in particular should be given a warning via PM and only then should he be infracted and banned..considering that person has a clean record of course. Take a little more than a few seconds to ban someone and think if the user deserves to be banned for that post. (i'm not taking about any specific case here)
[Off-topic] conantroutman:
Just for the record the insulting post was directed at mtm not myself.
[Off-topic] dexter93:
A bump for [MENTION=2178960]pulser_g2[/MENTION]. I'd like an official answer to that please.
[Off-topic] K.A.:
One letter change, done. :) Sorry bout that.
[Off-topic] pulser_g2:
Indeed.

As I said at the time, people deliberately trying to derail or be immature are deliberately trying to spoil the efforts of the majority of OT users to resolve the situation.

I warned him visibly, justify why you made a post with a maturity level of around 3 years old. His reply didn't acknowledge that it was immature and he tried to continue the immaturity. I acted as required. I didn't warn as he was warned in the thread. I banned for a short period and the situation was resolved.

I have done this for a while and I can sort situations. Additionally please consider again as I said before, the full circumstances of someone are considered. If it was someone's first ever transgression, they'd have just shut up. Or not even made the post in the first place.

And I stand by my actions and I know the majority of users who want a mature OT were denouncing the post.

What I did was effective and we haven't had any disruptions since then. And I imagine a few people reading will think twice before acting immaturely.

You may not like it, but I've been trying to resolve this issue, and I know for a fact from PMs that OT users want it resolved and don't want the immaturity to be allowed to put an end to it.

I won't look through your history as I don't want to turn it into that, but consider before you defend if you have perhaps not always been following the rules as best as you should. This is about trying to move on, not seek leniency.

I categorically will not give someone who acts like an immature clown of troll leniency. That's my prerogative. I would have a whole lot less leniency in OT... But fortunately you have some rather lenient mods. Unfortunately their leniency has been pushed and pushed, and when they do act, people want more.

Short bans when used appropriately do work. This one did, and I don't anticipate further immaturity..
[Off-topic] pulser_g2:
I receive a lot of PMs. Some are just written in what amounts to an unintelligible manner.

I don't mind users sending me messages. In fact I like it. But my inbox isn't there as a first port of call when something happens. That's where it's important to contact the mods of the specific forum.

If they are not able to understand your message there's not much they can do. I believe the message you're referring to was fairly confusing and long winded. The matter at hand changed constantly and I ended up confused. Being concise and accurate is key to all online communications.

I actually still return to that message to try figure out what the issue was, but I still cannot work it out. Often it's necessary to think to yourself before sending it, what is the root issue here, and what is the end result...

I am sure that you could talk to the mods of the forum in specific and they'd be able to help you with future reports. But long messages which you read and understand less that at the start really lead nowhere.

I always try to write a report like that as though the recipient has 2 minutes available. I give the details of who, when, and where. And if there was past incident I mention it. Some of the cases I recall being involved here just had insufficient evidence of information to act. But I might be mixing things up.
[Off-topic] Prawesome:
I think like that and I have had a clean record in xda and I am referring to Whiskey's(No offense) post. No moderator or Mod-Committee member has responded to it
[Off-topic] Archer:
If you're talking about his post that has been mentioned previously, with profanity in it, I dealt with that and removed it. If not, what post are you referring to?
[Off-topic] Prawesome:
Sorry about that. I hadn't read the thread completely.. I still had a few pages to go

And I think I will skip a few pages.. Looks like this thread derailed real bad..
[Off-topic] percy_g2:
First i used report button to report that PM :- no response

PM'ed device forum moderator :- Ignored the PM

PM'ed you :- my pm was still unread 20 days ago when i cleared up my delivery reports and i will be more clear next time in context and to the point

PM'ed PG101 :- No response

this above chain i followed and what i got is ignored , all i want to say is don't judge users with title and thanks posts, as the device forum mod did with my report.
[Off-topic] roofrider:
You seem to have taken that personally, i did not ask for your justification.

But rather someone banning a person for an offence that is only warning/infraction worthy according to another is not consistent moderation imo. I'm not talking about any specific case here.

Please do, if you think i deserve to be banned, do it. I will take it, but you will have to offer me genuine reasons.
[Off-topic] pulser_g2:
No "official" responses as I am just giving them in the pulser capacity today :)

But OK, sure...

I'd ask one question in response - how many people posting in OT would be prevented from posting, if there was a "postcount requirement", which I think is what you were suggesting?

I'm yet to see someone post in a significant thread in OT, other than the hello thread, who has less posts than the restriction. And I've yet to see them cause issues. All the issues I see are made by people with more posts than the 10 post restriction would affect...

EDIT: just to add something you may wish to respond to - a user posted this:

I would like an explanation from yourself as "leader" of that bunch of immaturity, as to why such behaviour was going on. Regardless of the presence or not of the rule about "telling people to GTFO", it's actually breaking the regular forum rules on being polite to other users. And it's just immature. As such, I am less inclined to listen to your position on this, as you've discredited yourself through such actions. And you were one of the ringleaders... http://xdaforums.com/showpost.php?p=40744372&postcount=21732

EDIT 2: oh wow, you're really dropping yourself in the doo-doo here...

That is an admission that those posting in your thread are trolls. Trolling isn't welcome in OT, nor anywhere on XDA. And mods are not going to follow your every whim and desire.

I suggest you need to reconsider your attitude here, dexter... It's frankly appalling, and not what I expect to see from an apparent RD/RC... Grow up, and think a bit before you write, as what you said in the past reflects incredibly badly upon you. I can tell you one thing... OT going forwards won't be having any "group" threads. That's for certain.

Would you care to respond to this?
[Off-topic] pulser_g2:
OK fair enough, it came across that you wanted to question it.

I didn't pretend that was a consistent action. The circumstances matter immensely. Someone came into the thread, and deliberately made a pointless post, RIGHT as people are discussing pointless posts. It's immature and it shows them up. If I did nothing, someone else would start a "let's all post random words in the serious thread" game... That was averted.

Again, I didn't pretend it was a consistent action. It was an action that was deserved though, given a warning was given. Please see http://xdaforums.com/showpost.php?p=43324340&postcount=418, and tell me if the quoted post is the kind of post that's OK to have in off-topic. :)

I didn't say you deserve to be banned, rather that I don't want to turn it into a "hunt the wrongdoing" game :)
[Off-topic] pulser_g2:
Both PG and I were away for a considerable time. that may explain it.

I had a look and it appears your reported PM wasn't submitted. Can you PM me with the user that you were reporting?

I did look at a few past reports you've made though, and must suggest that some of them are a bit less than valid, where you felt people were "trying your patience" - unfortunately there is no such rule on XDA that says "do not try percy's patience". As such, mods can't always side with you, as it doesn't work like that.
[Off-topic] roofrider:
Fair enough, we do not. If it were me i wouldn't have replied in that manner, hell i wouldn't have made that 'coconuts' post in a thread like this in the first place.

But i'd appreciated if you make it a norm to send an official last warning via PM before banning or infracting someone. I don't know if that is too much to ask.
[Off-topic] SimonTS:
I'm going to bump this back up the thread as there are currently Mods active and I would be really interested in getting their take on this, especially [MENTION=2178960]pulser_g2[/MENTION]

I don't have all the answers, no-one does, but we got some positive responses from the normal 'users' and no negative ones that I could see.
[Off-topic] percy_g2:
done .

I have no issue with my current reports if people try to spam a dev thread , i hit the report button (Mods do the rest work ).
[Off-topic] the_scotsman:
Restricting members to OT won't do anything. A large number (in fact the majority in my opinion) of those who cause problems in OT are members with thousands of posts.
[Off-topic] SimonTS:
And if you chose to implement something like this then you could easily end up giving them permanent bans from OT (after a couple of 'holidays') while not stopping them from accessing the rest of XDA. Don't you consider that might help the situation?
[Off-topic] the_scotsman:
I don't understand why we'd do that? If someone breaks the rules in the OT forum, they'll be banned from the entire site, not just OT. The whole point is the rules should never be broken anyway. The MAJORITY of our userbase seem to manage this just fine.
[Off-topic] pulser_g2:
Exactly, You'd not have done it. That's the thing... I don't moderate OT. I don't want to. I don't intend to. And I won't, unless people continue to cause issues.

As you said, you wouldn't have even made the "coconuts" post. You say in this thread, I presume you mean "in general", being as it's immature to do that in any thread. Unless someone asks "what's the name of that fruit that comes from trees, and has a hairy outer coating", it's not relevant or funny.

And I also know you'd not have replied like that. That is why people really don't need to worry. I'm not going to go and randomly ban someone for some small mistake. On the other hand, if someone wants to be immature, and disrespectful in a serious thread, then I will do it, for the ONE REASON that a sensible user who wasn't TRYING to cause disruption wouldn't make that post in the first place.

It IS the norm to send a warning by PM. But if someone wants to push the boundary, or be an actual idiot, that is not guaranteed. For example, you cannot make a thread full of profoundly racist comments, and expect to be given your "OK, this is a warning to not do it again". If you do that, you get a permaban, and I'll contact your ISP and request they disconnect you and cease providing service, as you're using the service to break federal laws (as racism is a crime, and it happened across state boundaries) etc...

Tl;dr, it is standard procedure to do that already, and that's what happens. Unless someone acts in a way that makes it necessary to deal with it there and then, or is very extreme. Sensible people who are not out to cause trouble don't need to worry.

I need to reiterate that. Mods ain't here to randomly ban people. BUT they are here to enforce the rules. I think, like I said earlier, a few people decided to try and push the rules to see where they stretch to, and were shocked when they were punished for breaking them. And I am fairly sure many of these people will have had "run-ins" before. I can see you have had them in the past. And as a "regular" here, you should know how to behave.

Like you said, you'd not go making stupid posts like that, so you have nothing to fear. But I have the distinct impression some people were trying to push boundaries, and were surprised when they came up to the boundaries and were dealt with... There was clear warning that the mods were not messing around, and there were problems. People came foul of this, and are upset. Deal with it. The rules are there, people should be sensible and mature, and it seems some people were not, and got "caught out" for that. Learn the lesson and move on, guys.

Mods ain't here to be your enemy, in fact the ones I see in OT actually seem to fit in well. But don't try to push the boundary and expect a final "ok look don't push it", if you are already pushing the boundary in the past...
[Off-topic] pulser_g2:
I will consider this, if you can present me either here, or in a PM, a list of posts which were problematic and caused by users with under 50 posts, AND is longer than my list of users with >500 posts, causing problems.

Joking aside, there's MANY more users with >500 posts causing issues than there are under 50. This really isn't going to work in my eyes. If there was an issue with <50 post users, we could address it. But the issue I see is with >500 post users, so perhaps we should block everyone with >500 posts?

Don't think people would like that!
[Off-topic] pulser_g2:
No, I don't really think that would help the situation at all.

We have site rules. If you break them, you are removed from the site. Why should OT be any different? If you get banned from XDA, you are banned from XDA. You lose your account and your reputation.

Is OT really so "special" that it ought to be enshrined and protected, so you can be banned from OT for your misbehaviour, but remain on XDA? That suggests people want the "right" to misbehave in OT... Why should they get that?

Let me tell you something, I would automatically ban anyone who was banned from OT from XDA anyway... Why? For breaking forum rules to the point of being banned from OT :)

OT isn't meant to be a paradise where you can act with impunity - if someone is put out of OT, they are put out of the site, as their behaviour isn't welcome on the site.
[Off-topic] pulser_g2:
OK interesting logic. But equally, consider what happens when the police get called in both situations - you will be arrested, taken to the station, and possibly charged with breach of the peace. Yes your job would fire you if you did it. And while it might be OK between friends, you need to remember XDA is not "between friends". This is a public forum that anyone can read and contribute to.

The point in OT is to give people a place to discuss random things like news articles they see, funny stories they hear, things they saw on their way to work, or random musings about the future of technology or whatever. It's not meant to be a place for "cliques" to form, and try to force out other cliques.

OT is different - it permits the discussion of off topic things, that are not "on topic" with mobile development. It is not meant to be a paradise for rulebreaking and disrespect. :)

Just remember... drinking in public is an offence in most places, and while lots of people do it, if they get caught, they suffer the consequences.

OT isn't for trolling, spamming, or being immature. Even OT regulars agree OT is for unrelated-to-device discussion, the odd jokes, and funny things we see or hear. But it should be done in good taste, and in a friendly way. Lately I think people forget the key is that it's to be friendly.

As you said, you call someone a d1ckhead in the pub, it might be your friend, and he'll just call you it back. BUT what you must remember is that OT isn't that - it's like shouting to the big massive tank of a guy across the room that HE is a d1ckhead.

Then, when he comes to show you the error of your ways, you run screaming for the bouncer/stewards to help you... :)