yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Off-topic] jRi0T68:
So, can we currently sum up concerns as follows?

Mod concerns:

-users encouraging banned members causing a ruckus.

-coconuts. Wtf? Plus other immature posting

-Users harsh attitude toward mods and a little unfair blame

-Users treating each other like crap

User concerns

-Unexpected/unpredictable bans (caused by lack of clarity in understanding of rules)

-Mods committing actions users would be blamed for

-Mods occasionally displaying immaturity themselves

Solution ideas

-Users, even if we find quasi's antics hilarious, they're not welcome here. Talk with him elsewhere. Many of us do.

-Users try to treat rules in OT like all other forums

-Users who see mod impropriety need to follow proper channels (pm mod first as respectfully as you'd like them to pm you, then mod committee)

-Mods, please try to warn/infract first. Recent bans that users feel weren't fair would never resolved as well with infractions.

-Mods please be consistent in setting an example of what is okay here.

-Mod committee should expect users may increase reports to them

-We should all expect "coconuts" type posts to receive a short ban, pulser was kind to give warning.

-EVERYONE needs to lighten up!

Did I miss something?

I'd personally like some clarity on profanity. Mods- where would you prefer such discussion take place, so as not to derail this thread. I have simple questions, should be easy. I am educated and intelligent, but have spent years in working environments that led to my own vulgarity. One can also be quite vulgar without profanity.

-No longer accidental, just Jeremy. F.cfb

[Guide] Headphone/Earphone Buying
[Off-topic] shree_tejas:
Aaaaaand... I suppose the mods are gonna ban Jeremy now?? If not I can say they are just balloons blowing worded air.

( sorry Jeremy.... Pm me your talk :P )

"Power or no power...Jerks will remain JERKS" -TeeJay!!​

Need help with CyanogenMod??Go here CM Help Thread ​
[Off-topic] powerpoint45:
Their is really nothing that can be done about this. Mods just have to carefully look over all the posts so they don't falsely accuse...
[Off-topic] prototype7:
What? Jeremy's post was great, why would he get banned?
[Off-topic] boborone:
Hey pulser, I backed off my lurking here to play games and smoke ciggs and work on my truck. Come back and see you're still here and posting. Times like this I miss the ot thanks button. Thanks for chilling with guys and girl here and chatting about ot, mods, and other topics.
[Off-topic] undercover:
Why would they? He's being very constructive and is only doing what mods should have done. Without that all previous posts are just talk with no actual results.

Edit. I guess at this stage of this conversation jokes, sarcasm etc are only distracting everyone and we should refrain from that.

“Power-lust is a weed that grows only in the vacant lots of an abandoned mind. ” ― Ayn Rand
[Off-topic] jRi0T68:
I see nothing for me to be banned for. Or am I wrong? Also, pm'ed.

-No longer accidental, just Jeremy. F.cfb

[Guide] Headphone/Earphone Buying
[Off-topic] cascabel:
I agree. Summed it up pretty much. Plus he offered solutions - isn't that what we're all looking for?
[Off-topic] jRi0T68:
Thanks. I know I'd feel better if those solutions were put in place.

-No longer accidental, just Jeremy. F.cfb

[Guide] Headphone/Earphone Buying
[Off-topic] shree_tejas:
"Power or no power...Jerks will remain JERKS" -TeeJay!!​

Need help with CyanogenMod??Go here CM Help Thread ​
[Off-topic] pulser_g2:
Seems good. Added a few comments.

RE that, perhaps mention it in about XDA, or feel free to drop me a PM.
[Off-topic] Babydollll:
I've pm'ed you about a side issue.

Please peruse it at your convenience.

Thank you.
[Off-topic] jRi0T68:
Pulser, I was relaying general sentiment from users, some of those things I personally don't have examples on. I may start a thread later to clarify profanity.

The problem with just using common sense (other than it's just not very common), is the cultural differences.

-No longer accidental, just Jeremy. F.cfb

[Guide] Headphone/Earphone Buying
[Off-topic] deathnotice01:
I ask everyone,

Is there any more general issues we need to address with the mods and users?

If everything seems fine let's all close the thread since I'm not getting the direction where this is heading if any more posts comes up.

Seems small things branch out everywhere then set ablaze with unnecessary things.

Jeremy has summed it up (thanks), pulser responded, we happies, they happies.

Let's all go back talking about stuff in OT like asking how our lives have been, what's new with y'all today and prolly get back on track with reality. Let's all walk out the door, reconsider the differences and learn from this.

All i want from OT is a happy environment where we all could have fun and enjoy each others company.

This post is in compliance with the national potato safety regulation.

[Galaxy S 4 LTE]
[Off-topic] Android Pizza:
I don't think it needs to be closed yet.

Sent from my Motorola Atrix HD using Xparent Green Tapatalk 2
[Off-topic] deathnotice01:
Why?

I mean what issue is there left unaddressed?

This post is in compliance with the national potato safety regulation.

[Galaxy S 4 LTE]
[Off-topic] veeman:
Do you have anything else to add?
[Off-topic] K.A.:
Nope. Everything that needed to be addressed has been addressed and a temporary solution has been reached.

Cheerios folks! :D
[Off-topic] Sleepy!:
Speak now or forever hold your peace. :p

TBH, the mods' issues with the users have been very well documented, and both jriot and pulser have tried their best to present both sides of the issue.

If any users feel there are still problems that need to be discussed, please do so within the next 24 hours.

Mods... let's just keep thus open for a day. Finish off all issues so that people don't have to make another thread with similar complaints ever again.
[Off-topic] freakboy13:
I say dont close thread.

Theres no progress and

Not to mention nothing has been resolved.

We need a couple mods in here to really turn this into something constructive.

We have the issues noted:

Whats going to change now?

So far as I said we have pointed out the problem but no solution has come around.

Lets fix this or bury the hatchet and iron out the creases and move on.

Work on issue or close thread is my opinion.

I personally would like to fix this and not sweep it under teh rug.

:):thumbup:

sent from my T.A.R.T.I.S

(Time And Relative Tarts In Space)
[Off-topic] Babydollll:
Let's see that the issues brought up by both sides are not only addressed but implemented.

(Pulser, this is not meant to be a slight to you in any way, I do have faith that the issues bright up here will be addressed)

I think that while everyone conducts themselves with some maturity in this thread, it might be a good idea to leave it open for the time being.

Just my two cents.
[Off-topic] K.A.:
We're never going to reach a conclusion to such a discussion. A coin always has two sides, users WILL have - if not right now, someday later - issues with moderators and within the moderators the debate to keep or not keep OT alive due to the amazing drop in content quality will always stay alive. So, no point in going on and on about to achieve something that will only be temporary.
[Off-topic] Babydollll:
I do think that some of the things brought up here can be successfully implemented. Call me naive I guess
[Off-topic] Android Pizza:
I don't think the issue of veeman and I being banned has been fully resolved.

Sent from my Motorola Atrix HD using Xparent Green Tapatalk 2
[Off-topic] K.A.:
I'm not saying it can't be but sooner or later issues will crop up again and the same things will be questioned again.

P.S. : Real good work by Pulser in sticking around this thread to reply to the users.
[Off-topic] Whiskey103:
Eh.....Flashed latest SupahSmoothFlyingROM...now it bootloops..anyone same....

Log attached..

Mod edit: Profanity removed.
[Off-topic] K.A.:
Where you gunna send your 10 posters then, eh? 'cause mods did say they'd rather have 10 posters post here than in device forums.
[Off-topic] veeman:
Wow, so thoughtful. Please tell more. /s
[Off-topic] Sleepy!:
People are trying to work with the issues, bro.

One of the larger matters of contention was partially taken care of yesterday.

And we'll be trying to resolve more issues today.

As I already said, the issues that mods have with users in OT have been very well enumerated here, but the issues that users face haven't been noted that well.

So users, please come forward, state your opinions and try to fix this.

There's nothing the moderators can do unless we tell them our problems.

So PLEASE, speak up and make your issues heard. Just complaining in the background isn't going to solve any problems.
[Off-topic] conantroutman:
Well he does raise a valid point.

OT < Any other forum. Fact.

It is the forum with the least relevance to the actual point of XDA Developers yet it causes more hassle than most of the proper forums combined.

If this place were run efficiently and we were all as cold and ruthless as you seem to think it would have gone exactly the same way as the marketplace by now. However it hasn't and the mods continue to spend (some would say waste) their time here dealing with things that are of less importance than things which relate to development.
[Off-topic] Babydollll:
If its truly felt by the powers that be that ot is a drain on XDA resources, then MAYBE it SHOULD be closed/deleted.

I feel that some progress has been made and maybe things can change..

But then again, maybe I'm just being naive again
[Off-topic] conantroutman:
But it's not. If that were the feeling then it would already be gone.

Of course things can change but in my opinion it's become pretty clear throughout the course of this thread that some people are simply not willing to help facilitate that and want only to extend the drama and ill feeling. Unfortunately things won't change until everyone is working towards the same goal.
[Off-topic] Sleepy!:
[MENTION=2632943]Whiskey103[/MENTION]... please. Most of these people go to the Q&A forums or General device fora.

I have yet to see a single log in OT.

So I don't actually get where you're coming from in that post.
[Off-topic] veeman:
If this place was run efficiently, there would be no need to close off topic.
[Off-topic] deathnotice01:
Well you do have that "spam" forum, where you put spam.

Does it?

Atleast we can't kang, post warez, beach about why our phones are not working and why not using the search function here in OT.

OT or not it's the same level of moderation you guys have to do since it involves XDA as a whole.

I've seen more idiotic posts in device forum than OT anyday. I see warez posted for days even before it gets reported.

As what the other mods have said, OT aint a special flower, it's the same forum as any other on xda.

This post is in compliance with the national potato safety regulation.

[Galaxy S 4 LTE]
[Off-topic] Babydollll:
Yet many of us are trying to work towards that goal.

Doesn't that count for something?
[Off-topic] Sleepy!:
Well... I'll be real direct here, Conan. I don't see any positive action here from any of you guys either.

Pulser came and tried, but his response had more to do with why the mods don't like OT than with why OT doesn't like the mods.

Any discussion is a two way street... a give or take... and for the most part, moderators seem to come here, try to understand and proceed to pass judgement... what positive comment have you guys made here?

Except 'Follow the rules'. We've heard that one. Read that one loads of times.
[Off-topic] K.A.:
You sir, and I mean no disrespect, as an old member regular of OT yourself and as a moderator committee member, need to come in here and try, as pulser did to address the issues and reply to what a member has to say and participate in the discussion rather than come in here for the occasional "You're not cooperating" and "we'd might as well delete OT" posts.
[Off-topic] conantroutman:
OT serves no purpose. It is a luxury and the site would still fulfil is purpose without it. We give both time and resources away to

a completely superfluous forum. That is not efficient in my opinion.

Exactly. There is plenty of moderation required elsewhere yet still we choose to assign mods here.
[Off-topic] Whiskey103:
Well i am one of the guys that just always failed to see the need for this section.

All it has is ponies, spidermans, complaints, drama, and what not.. Waste of bandwith imo!!! Close OT and use the resources to host stuff :D

If you want a hangout,, open one on google.. simple :silly:

Now iam out again as i dont see this will evvah change.. Have a good one Sir.

And mu personal opinion,, Mark is a great guy, same goes for MTM and that other English clown actually.

Just on a serious note.... upstairs there are really good discussions and decisions made.

Its not like banhungry powerplayers believe me ;) Its just that a crowd of 5 million is hard to manage sometimes ;)
[Off-topic] K.A.:
It sure is a luxury, but a luxury XDA can surely afford.
[Off-topic] flastnoles11:
Not a fact, ot is just as much a part of xda as any device forum, you said it yourself a couple posts later (i would quote it, but my tapatalk is acting up and won't multi-quote right)... If ot wasn't as important they would close it up with boards and nails just like the market place... Don't confuse fact and opinion

“It is said that power corrupts, but actually it's more true that power attracts the corruptible. The sane are usually attracted by other things than power."” ― David Brin
[Off-topic] Sleepy!:
Let's leave that to their discretion.

They can close OT of they fell like it. -_-
[Off-topic] Android Pizza:
Agreed.

Sent from my Motorola Atrix HD using Xparent Green Tapatalk 2
[Off-topic] veeman:
Moderators don't even get paid. How is it so hard on resources? They can just find some random dude and make him a mod.
[Off-topic] K.A.:
Ikr. Instead of constantly telling us they'd rather do away with OT, either they actually do it or if they dont want to just stop telling us that.
[Off-topic] flastnoles11:
Most that have posted here don't have the authority to just delete ot, that comes from the higher ups...

“It is said that power corrupts, but actually it's more true that power attracts the corruptible. The sane are usually attracted by other things than power."” ― David Brin
[Off-topic] K.A.:
And yet they keep going on and on about it. :rolleyes:
[Off-topic] flastnoles11:
I wish they would get the OK to delete it, save some headaches in the end

“It is said that power corrupts, but actually it's more true that power attracts the corruptible. The sane are usually attracted by other things than power."” ― David Brin
[Off-topic] Fallen Spartan:
I've been out for a few hours with the family and return to find 14 extra pages in this thread. Having finally caught up I must admit, I am thoroughly disappointed..............

...........................

You can lead a fool to wisdom but you can't make him think! XDA, mobile wisdom, not a n00b feeding ground!!
[Off-topic] veeman:
I've been waiting for an official response for hours. Having read your post, I must admit, I am thoroughly disappointed..............
[Off-topic] conantroutman:
Oh of course it does and believe me it is very much appreciated. You have always been one of the most level headed and responsible members of OT.

To be honest I really don't know what kind of positive action you guys expect from us. All any of us have ever tried to do is make this place accessible to everyone. Clearly the way we've gone about that has displeased some but for that to be rectified we need constructive feedback not an undercurrent of resentment. I'm sure I've probably missed some of that along the way just as you might have missed some positive action on our part.

Pulser and I are very different people with very different styles of addressing a problem.

I have not come here to state that you aren't cooperating or we should simply delete OT. I was simply trying to make the point that OT is a privilege and not a right. Apologies if that was how it sounded but that was not my intention.
[Off-topic] Prawesome:
Things were pretty nicely summed up in Jriot's post.. And I had daresay that other than Pulser, archer and pstevep, no one has really helped from the moderator's point of view...
[Off-topic] conantroutman:
I wish you'd take your insatiable lust for drama elsewhere. You clearly have no intention of seeking any kind of resolution to the problem and just have an axe to grind.

It's people like you that prevent the regulars here who do nothing wrong and the moderators from being able to acheive any kind of positive outcome. If you really wish that we'd close OT then just leave and don't post here anymore. It doesn't get much simpler than that. If not, start acting like everyone else and contribute to the discussion without taking a pop at someone with every post.
[Off-topic] shadowcore:
So, are Mods really considering closing OT forever?
[Off-topic] pulser_g2:
Because, as we saw from this thread, if I found some random dude and made him a mod, we'd have about 5000 complaints. Mods are not just randomly selected, there is indeed a lot of selection work going on. We are very careful about who gets to become a mod. As we know otherwise there would be more issues...

It is hard on resources, as they are volunteers with real jobs. They don't have all day to spend on here, as they are also likely working full-time doing other things. XDA is their hobby, just like it's the hobby of everyone posting here.
[Off-topic] Babydollll:
Thank you very much. :thumbup:
[Off-topic] Prawesome:
Ironical that we were having a discussion about profanity a few pages back and you, a mod used such words.. That post was really immature mate
[Off-topic] veeman:
Ok, well I obviously exaggerated about picking a random person. I realize that there are guidelines for becoming a mod. But it's not costing XDA as a company (or whatever the legal terminology is) any money is it? Other than storing the text on servers.
[Off-topic] percy_g2:
Users are asking mods to look deep into the issues before giving warning,infractions and banning any user and if Mods community are so against the OT just close it .

You guys are acting weird now and discussion is getting some where else .
[Off-topic] pulser_g2:
If the general consensus is that people want to just try and fight over it, rather than try to reach working solutions, that would realistically be the best option. And not one tear would be shed by me...

But I actually want OT to remain... Albeit in a mature, sensible, and grown up way, like most regular users of OT have agreed. Minus the insular behaviour, flaming, trolling, bickering, inciting others to break rules, and whatnot...
[Off-topic] conantroutman:
That's the point, if there were such a demand from mods to close OT it would already be closed. I'm not saying there aren't some who wouldn't like to see that happen but even they agree its senseless to punish the majority for the misbehaviour of a few.
[Off-topic] pulser_g2:
Well... Every single post is another entry in the posts table. And that means every single query to load a post, and thread, must look past this one. That means more I/O is required, and more storage space is required.

Some of the "problematic" threads that led to trolling and bashing and insular behaviour had in excess of 75,000 posts in ONE of the threads. And that one was closed months ago. We're not talking inconsiderable numbers here. And attachments are on top of that.

Add to that the time that mods spend dealing with OT, which could be used elsewhere, given the name XDA-developers.

Really, OT should be a "nice bonus" on the site. It shouldn't be taking up so much time and effort, and causing so much drama, that it's at this point.
[Off-topic] Sleepy!:
+1

Agreed.

Have a cookie, prawn.
[Off-topic] veeman:
Why not have just one mod dedicated to off topic?
[Off-topic] conantroutman:
Back in the day there was just one mod here. Who's been around long enough to remember TRM whipping this place into shape? Literally.

Unfortunately nowadays the workload generated is simply too much for one person.
[Off-topic] veeman:
There's not that much mischief. :rolleyes:

One person dedicated to moderating Off Topic should be enough.
[Off-topic] percy_g2:
Great then just come to the point and explain your views like pulser did .
[Off-topic] DowntownJeffBrown:
Yea I thought the same thing. Be we know nothing will be done.

“Power-lust is a weed that grows only in the vacant lots of an abandoned mind. ”

― Ayn Rand >^.^
[Off-topic] Babydollll:
Too many people, too many threads to have just one mod these days

I remember trm being here and doing a bang up job but i wasn't a registered member then....just a lurker. :eek:
[Off-topic] Fallen Spartan:
One way to cut out the trolling, flaming, bickering, inciting etc is to act on a zero tolerance until those members are no longer members of XDA, then the rest can go back to enjoying themselves

...........................

You can lead a fool to wisdom but you can't make him think! XDA, mobile wisdom, not a n00b feeding ground!!
[Off-topic] conantroutman:
I agree. It should be enough but believe me the amount of posts reported and times that mod intervention is required is too much for one person, who as pulser already mentioned probably has a full time job and maybe even a social life too...

I know you guys feel we over moderate but 9 times out of 10 we are moderating reactively (to a complaint or reported post) not just killing time and picking on people. All mods are encouraged to react to issues not seek them out. Just because it may not be apparent that someone has been offended or felt the need to contact us doesnt mean that it hasn't happened.
[Off-topic] dexter93:
Sorry to be absent from this discussion, it took me some time to go over 40 pages.

The problems have been spotted and solutions have been suggested. . But they all seem temporary

The OT forum is a luxury to XDA indeed. That's pretty much a fact

What OT should be:

A place for mature members and developers to hang out, exchange opinions, share news and relax. Occasionally a place of fun too, but nothing more than that.

What OT shouldn't be:

A place full of trolls, spammers and 5year olds.

What OT currently is:

A mess. Mods hunt down people treating them like they're 5year olds ( not all mods, but you get the picture). It is not 4chan, even if some like to moderate it as if it was. Over-moderation is the issue here.

The cause:

Random immature people like to spam the board. Mods have enough of them every day and apply strict moderation to them and sometimes that targets the rest of the people around ( mostly OT regulars)

For once more, I'd like to bring up the measure of limiting access to OT.

OT is a luxury to XDA. Make the members earn access to it.

That way, you take the 5 year olds out and then the place gets cleaned. Moderators take a chill pill. More quality posting comes and problems are dealt with maturity. The drama days are over.

As for the " they'd better get their 10 posts in OT rather than somewhere else" that's simply not valid. Iirc, pulser once said that XDA is a developers site, not a consumers and customer support site (or something along those lines, please excuse me if my memory is poor). The OT is still part of XDA, not a dumpster. If people can't get 10 legit posts, they have no place in XDA. And that includes OT too.
[Off-topic] Whiskey103:
Hear hear, xda from developer perspective ;) the way it should be tbh.

I can't agree with the "over moderation" part just because the way it is now it seems needed but still... I like your thoughts much.
[Off-topic] mark manning:
^^^ This

I will also add that 9 times out of 10 the person making the moderator actions isn't the mod that can sometimes first come to mind.