yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Off-topic] a.cid:
A lot of you folks know me, from both the sides, the mods as well as the Ot'ers. I didn't want to be a part of this discussion/tension/whatever else you'd call that phase in OT, solely because I didn't have the energy to deal with it that time.

Now that I'm here, what are the issues still left? I don't promise solutions, but I can offer my viewpoint.

People thought mark was overhanded. Whether guilty or not, he did come forward and apologized. That takes some serious guts to do. Believe it or not, at times, even I feel he was unnecasrily targeted. A bunch of peolpe even posted here that they heard about him, but have had pleasant exchanges with him.

Even I have left OT. I don't remember the last time I posted here before today. But solely blaming everything onto mark, is that right? Wasn't OT deteriorating, like since more than half a year?

OT is being overrun with new folks who don't understand how things work.

Tell me, what part of XDA isn't? Ot was actually the safe haven, where things were behind their time. It's just catching up.

What can we do about it? 10post rule for OT, questionnaire's, approval before posting etc? Where's the solution for this?

OT is being targeted recently. Perhaps maybe, but because it wasn't in the past. Things were allowed ignored in the past, they aren't now. Isn't that what people wanted, a more equitable moderation policy?

I may have missed a point or two in the last 27 pages, but I do hope things could be worked out. If not, atleast the air could be cleared. I personally, would love to have the old OT back, but some things are beyond any of our control.
[Off-topic] deathnotice01:
If this was a 18+ only site then maybe we could have freedom to use such languages.

But until such xda remains a 'for all ages' site. They must comply with the restrictions indicated in the US COPPA law.

This post is in compliance with the national potato safety regulation.

[Galaxy S 4 LTE]
[Off-topic] undercover:
My common sense says that according to your post we shouldn't use it at all. You don't walk about in a school saying "this is *beeep* awesome". You don't use profanities full stop. So in light of that, I guess I should stop using it all together, get offended by anyone using it in whatever context and report him. As you would at school. Right?

“Power-lust is a weed that grows only in the vacant lots of an abandoned mind. ” ― Ayn Rand
[Off-topic] cascabel:
[MENTION=4344846]a.cid[/MENTION] i agree completely. ot has been deteriorating way back. like xda, as a whole i guess, is being overrun with...well...i'm not going to go name-calling (seeing as i admit to being one myself). :) i guess most ot regulars are overprotective of ot since, as you said, it's the last safe haven. of course, the issues discussed here apply to other subforums in xda. i just hope this thread would help in bringing back the old ot. it.might be asking a lot, or wishful thinking, but hey at least we're doing something.
[Off-topic] eagleeyetom:
I was refraining from posting in this thread for along time, but finally I decided to chime in.

I spent over an hour to follow this thread and I must say that you guys can't discuss. Maybe I'm a bit harsh with my judgment, but I would like to share my thoughts about few things.

XDA is a tech site and we all came here because we wanted to do something with our phones, tablets etc. When I joined this site, I was mainly involved in my device specific forum and hell, I even didn't know that off topic forum exists. Having an OT here is a privilege and we keep forgetting about it. It was created because of the good will of our admins as we all need to chit chat sometimes, BUT off topic should not be treated as a main purpose of XDA existence. If someone comes here just to talk about memes and mommas spaghetti last week, he/she should reconsider a membership on this site.

Second thing - what is the actual purpose of this thread? You guys are saying that we are going on a power trip too often. Believe me or not, but I'm here for a while and met many people from almost every part of the world. Did I ban or infract someone for lulz? I don't think so and I can say the same thing about my colleagues. You guys seem to forget about one thing, common sense. When one guy post a meme with Spiderman and cancer I find it utterly stupid and warning/infraction worthy. Same applies to other situations here, because there is a small line crossing the sense of humor and rudeness.

Third thing - democracy and XDA. This was said a millions of times, but I will say that again. There is no democracy on XDA. Why? It's simple. Imagine the situation that a group of people requests XDA to become a forum about ponies and set a layout of the site to pink.30% of members will vote to yes, 20% will vote against and 50% don't give a damn about it. We don't want it, do we? We have to follow the rules and someone has to create them. We need to have moderators, because someone needs to keep problematic users away from discussion. You may think that we are evil and want to ban everyone. It's not true, as we all spend our free time to maximize the enjoyment level of this forum. XDA has 5 millions users, don't forget about that.

This thread was derailed so bad, that it lost its purpose. The discussion is not about constant attacking and saying that "I'm a poor user and you can do whatever you want". It's unjustified and wrong belief. Many of moderators were retired for abusing their powers and we have a moderator committee and admins to ensure that moderators do their job properly. Such things should not be discussed in public as there are different channels to complain and whine about moderators and they were mentioned few times in this thread.

As a conclusion of my grammatically wrong post I would like to say one thing. We are your friends and you are our friends. We all should try to understand that we are in the different position, because moderators need to look at things under a different angle, not only "he insulted me and should be banned for life and one day".

Understanding is the key.

Just my 3 grosz.

Tom
[Off-topic] Clark Joseph Kent:
+1
[Off-topic] Prawesome:
Well, this thread went from a discussion about the silly bannings and warnings in OT to "What swear words are appropriate?" thread alright.. Can everyone please get to the point?
[Off-topic] a.cid:
Eh prawns, read last few posts.
[Off-topic] roofrider:
We are, or at least i am frankly tired of trying explain things and you just seem to not want to take it head on and reply directly to the topic that is being discussed.

All that needs to be said imo is already said and yet none of your replies are directed at it. Don't tell me you are still unawares. It you are then read the thread again.

This thread exists as a consequence of what happened here in the last couple of days. OP [MENTION=2764168]Sleepy![/MENTION] can correct me if i'm wrong.

We are posting here because we give a **** about this forum and OT, more than half of the guys who posted here (myself included) are not old timers, they are gone, thanks to you. Fret not, soon OT is going to be exactly how you wanted..dead, filled with noobs and immature posts. Just hold on a little longer.

Forgive the lack of coherence in this post as i haven't slept and that disorients me a little.

Thank you.
[Off-topic] Prawesome:
I hadn't read this page.. Thanks for putting that discussion to rest

---------- Post added at 05:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:22 PM ----------

Well, not everyone is as good as you Tom ;) Also, I didn't see anyone here asking xda to be a democracy(that's stupid) and I don't remember seeing anyone asking OT to be free of mods either(another stupid idea)

---------- Post added at 05:31 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:28 PM ----------

Also, I remember a few mods(Fallen Spartan) asking for some links and stuff..

Here it is

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=1629780

PleaSe have a read through the last few pages
[Off-topic] the_scotsman:
Wait....are you guys complaining about people being banned in that thread? Is that what this thread is about? Really? I'd certainly hope not.
[Off-topic] roofrider:
Do infractions and warnings come before a ban or not? Simple question.

Especially if you're going to ban people for silly stuff.
[Off-topic] veeman:
Please tell me why it shouldn't be discussed in public? Afraid of introducing new or different opinions? Nobody said anything about XDA being a democracy. I don't understand why that keeps getting brought up. Almost all your points are moot and you're saying that the rest of the lot can't discuss... :rolleyes:
[Off-topic] the_scotsman:
Generally yes. But for serious offences it's not the case. A straight out ban can be given if necessary. A number of factors are taken into consideration.
[Off-topic] roofrider:
+1, no offence, but some s-mods just haven't been in OT long enough to really have a solid say in this matter.

---------- Post added at 08:14 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:13 PM ----------

I said silly stuff. That's what's been happening here and that's why all this commotion.
[Off-topic] eagleeyetom:
It's quite simple. We have Moderator Committee to deal with such reports, so I see no point in bringing this to public attention.
[Off-topic] Prawesome:
Nope. There was a ban by CTM in that thread against roofrider(turned out to be quite an issue everywhere in ot) yesterday because he quoted a post made by a previously banned member. The ban was however removed in about 30 minutes by another mod.

The other two 'uncalled' bans were made because they posted in a thread created by said banned member. But that thread was deleted, so I have no links.

And no, that's not what this thread is for but I had bet my .. that it had a part in the making of this thread by Krushna
[Off-topic] deathnotice01:
Because we all want answers as we fear for unwarranted banning which was not implied in the XDA rules,:

No worries though, FS has gave me a good resonse, i just hope so it will be a reality of impartial and honest review :)
[Off-topic] the_scotsman:
No one gets banned for no reason. if you don't do anything stupid and abide by the rules, you won't be banned. It's quite a simple process to follow.
[Off-topic] Prawesome:
I thought so too.. Until I saw what happened yesterday
[Off-topic] the_scotsman:
And what did you see?
[Off-topic] prototype7:
Honestly, the reasoning for that has been given out quite a few times. Following a banned member who continuously creates puppy accounts for the sole purpose of harassing the mods is a pretty good offense worthy of a short ban in my opinion. The mods are frustrated at him, and the people who encourage him to continue creating accounts aren't helping the situation. It wasn't "just a quote" in roof's situation, he was trying to get a response from the mods to a post calling out one of OT's best mods and calling him a ******.
[Off-topic] pulser_g2:
Since when did "time spent in OT" equate to having a "solid say" in the matter? Pro Tip: it didn't.

Yes... I have been awoken and pointed to this... And am I best pleased about it? Let's get it sorted, k?

OT is a place for reasoned discussion about things, posting interesting articles, funny reports you saw etc... It's a place to relax, not a place to come and have a whine about mod X or Y... Maybe have a chat to the Mod Committee?

Anyone who goes and makes a new account after being removed on their old one, and not following the appeal process (which goes via an entirely separate route from regular moderators) is worthy of more than just a short ban... If I get called, it will be for life... If you incite someone to do it, you get the same... The right way to get a response isn't to make new accounts, #justsayin
[Off-topic] prototype7:
He meant that mods who aren't constantly in OT don't really know the score and understand the changes that have happened recently.
[Off-topic] the_scotsman:
Changes? What changes? OT is a forum like any other. There are no "special" things a mod needs to know before acting on something in OT.
[Off-topic] Prawesome:
We are not toys for everyone to come and give a punch on the face just because they are frustrated.. Yes, the quoting might have been uncalled for but he didn't really break any rule now, did he?

I just gave you guys a link...

Anyway, this will be my last post.. Doesn't look like any of this is going anywhere
[Off-topic] pulser_g2:
Really? I am not constantly in OT, but I know the score - OT is currently resembling a cess-pit, or latrine... And I don't like cess-pits or latrines near my lawn...

I bounce the question back on those asking the questions - why did this situation arise? Is it perhaps because OT is currently being treated like a troll-full image board, and people want to be allowed to behave like that on a serious site? If so, then kindly take yourself to the top right of the screen, and use the log out button. Press it, close the tab, and don't return, if you want a troll paradise...
[Off-topic] the_scotsman:
I will instantly ban anyone calling anyone else a "******"...this includes intentionally quoting someone who said it.
[Off-topic] prototype7:
That does seem to be the case now. Used to be OT would get a little leeway, but now, with a new moderating team and tighter policy (see here: http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=2319166 ), the rules are being enforced a bit more strictly, and it's becoming stifling. Quite a few good members of the community have left over it, and they weren't the kind of people who the rules should have targeted, they weren't mass trolling bad threads and making ib4l posts.
[Off-topic] CallMeVentus:
At least this site isn't as bad as Sonic Retro....I guess....

Sent from whatever the hell you want to think it is. I ain't yo mama.
[Off-topic] pulser_g2:
If someone makes new accounts, they aren't banned from frustration, please note that wasn't any mod's wording. They are banned for being an idiot who cannot read, as when an account gets banned, it is redirected to the ban appeals information message.

Being unable to read, (as the rules are written, and say do not make a new account), then ignoring that, is a perfectly valid reason.

If someone incites and starts cajoling others to break rules, they will face the same consequences... Don't try to think you can stand inside the house while telling others to throw stones, and get away with it...
[Off-topic] prototype7:
That is part of the issue, OT is being treated as a troll-full image board, but the real issue is that not all of it is (or was).
[Off-topic] pulser_g2:
Right... You want leeway... I think OT has plenty of leeway... I took a look at the topic listing, and I'd close almost all of these threads based on thread-name alone, if it was in another forum...

You say it's tigher and stifling.. I suggest that these rules are TOTALLY realistic... What's wrong with "no spamming/trolling new threads"? That's common sense. Which part of the rules don't you like...

No IBTL posts - going "inb4 the lock" is just stupid and mini-modding. We have plenty mods to deal with crap, we don't need others to aggravate the issue.

No GTFO noob posts - would you like if it someone did that to you?

no deciding who posts in a thread - this stops insular threads that start attacking each other. If you want to engage in that stuff, find a popular image board site, and go troll away where it's allowed... OT isn't meant to be a "troll paradise".

No spamming or trolling new threads - this is a SITE rule. It's not just introduced to OT. If you make a post, you should be contributing. There was a small group of individuals trying to exert "control" over OT and have it as their kingdom. That's not conducive to a friendly environment.

Or am I missing the ridiculously strict rule that's woefully unfair? If I am, please point it out.
[Off-topic] the_scotsman:
Rules are tightening because the attitude of a large numbers of OT regulars is dropping drastically. Rules are there for a reason. We're not here to ban people, and will let things slide where we can, but it's becoming too much now. People are taking the p***.

OT is here as a SECONDARY place for smartphone enthusiasts to come post a joke or tell a story, or discuss a movie. Not create groups who mock or abuse other members, or post nothing but stupid memes.
[Off-topic] Archer:
This conversation has turned into one that we've already had - the friendly reminder thread.

You say people have left because of that, then I would ask why they left. The only people that the reminder thread should be of concern to are the people that have had too much leeway before now. If you're not incessantly trolling threads instead of reporting wrong-doings, and you're not shouting "GTFO NOOB!!!" because you think it's funny to bully people then it does not affect you in any way other than making the forum a better place for you.

This really isn't rocket science but some people don't seem to get it.
[Off-topic] roofrider:
I directly sent MTM a PM stating my intention for quoting it, i did not and am not expecting a reply.

You lot just assuming what my intention was and acting upon it does not make you right.
[Off-topic] veeman:
So I'm guessing time spent driving doesn't make you a better driver or time spent training doesn't make you smarter or stronger? Seriously, OT was so much better when we just had just a few moderators that knew how to moderate well.
[Off-topic] pulser_g2:
We're making progress here :) OK, part of the issue is that OT is treated as a troll-full image board. Yes, that's definitely the case. I dare not go hunting, but it would take me a fraction of a second to find a post that belongs on an imageboard... A contentless troll-post. Or some kind of insular meme that's intended to attack another "faction" or "group".

Seriously, I think we all need to take a step back here, and have a look. We have an OT forum here. It consumes a HUGE amount of database and site space. I am sure some people would absolutely LOVE to hit the delete button, and find the database half the size it used to be... But we recognise that OT is important to people as somewhere to let off steam.

The thing is, remember we are on the internet, and that doesn't exempt everyone from manners. Everyone should ask themselves, "would I act like this in real life?" If yes, and you are one of the people who thinks this is a troll-haven, then I suggest you are not fit for real-life. If not, then please don't.

OT is a place to socialise and have fun. I know fine well that not all of OT is a troll infested imageboard. But if people want to act and get upset like it is, it makes it difficult to find a constructive solution.

Are you implying that it's necessary to directly be a mod of OT to know how to moderate? That's like saying "fine, pulser, you spent 5 years driving rapid response cars, but it doesn't make you a good driver, as you didn't drive a VW Beetle!".

Moderating is a transferable skill. OT is a forum. It needs moderation, apparently, due to the extent of issues lately. I've been working with community management and engagement for a large number of years, trust me, I know how to do it. But I've not been an OT regular... If you don't want me to help out as I'm not an "OT Regular", then I think that highlights the crux of the entire OT issue here...
[Off-topic] prototype7:
With all due respect, you guys really aren't getting the point. The issue isn't with the rules, but look for yourselves, the good members of the community who are leaving because of the strict atmosphere were not the ones doing over the top trolling and making stupid ib4l posts.
[Off-topic] CallMeVentus:
I'm just gonna break a combo and say I love XDA, and that the appeasement card should be used by all of us

*shots fired*

Sent from whatever the hell you want to think it is. I ain't yo mama.
[Off-topic] pulser_g2:
But to quote you 2 minutes ago,

Is the issue the rules or not? I think you just said the issue is the rules...

If the rules are being enforced "too strictly", then perhaps there's an issue with people realising the intention of the rules. The intention of the rules isn't to be "OMG INVESTIGATE EVERY POST". Rather, to try and encourage a positive atmosphere.

One thing to always remember though is the saying, "one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter". It's important to try remain objective at all times. Just because something happened which you feel was "unfair" doesn't mean that everyone does. There are rules, the guys here have asked if everyone would kindly follow them (and it isn't hard to see the issue). The ones who break the rules should be dealt with, per those rules.

Isn't that how life works? :)
[Off-topic] Babydollll:
^^^

This.
[Off-topic] prototype7:
The rules being enforced so strictly is the issue, not the rules themselves. I think we've all seen through examples in this thread that mods have quite a bit of leeway in their interpretation of the rules. OT can be a nice, relaxed place where people can blow off steam, or it can be a tightly controlled, tension-filled drama pit, all with the same rules. I'm not saying that we should be allowed to go around filling every new thread with ib4l posts and trolling new members into oblivion, because that's ridiculous and I completely agree that it's gotten out of hand.
[Off-topic] the_scotsman:
But it's not difficult. Stay within the rules, and it won't be an issue. I really don't understand what's so difficult about that? If people stayed within the rules, there would be no infractions or bans.
[Off-topic] Babydollll:
But what happens when the mods themselves become overzealous in their attempts to enforce said rules?

Oh that's right, that doesn't happen.

:rolleyes:
[Off-topic] the_scotsman:
Well that's when you contact a member of the moderator committee and let us know. We are human beings too...we look into each and every report we receive. It does work both ways.
[Off-topic] veeman:
Where did I even say that? And it's more like "Pulser, you've been driving around a Mini Cooper for 5 years. You don't know how to drive an 18 wheeler very well."

I realize that moderation is a transferable skill. All I'm saying is maybe put an experienced mod here because off topic is not an easy forum to moderate. Start the new moderators off with smaller forums.
[Off-topic] pulser_g2:
OK. So if we agree the rules are a good way forwards, that's a step in the right direction.

Rules always are open to interpretation, unless someone like me writes them, in full-on legalese, and makes them unintelligible to most people... Which won't help us here.

I think everyone wants to see OT being a nice, relaxed place. Certainly I'd hope that's the case. RE ib4l posts and trolling, that's ridiculous as you say, but I'd go further to say nobody should be doing either, or related things, any time. Not just "every thread", it shouldn't happen anywhere.

If people want to make OT a tension-filled drama pit, that's fine... I doubt it will last. If they want to make OT a reasoned, calm place, I am sure that will work nicely...

It is ridiculous, and it's obviously got out of hand here. But rather than us all sit and go "OMG it's so out of hand", let's work out how we can make it that calm and reasoned place which is fun to use :)
[Off-topic] Babydollll:
I personally haven't had any issues with moderators with the exception of one warning recently via pm.

However, I have seen emails from the moderator committee from other users, and they can be just as biased.

I guess it's just human nature.
[Off-topic] pulser_g2:
Clearly implies that time spent moderating makes you a better moderator, in the context of your comment being in reply to

I don't see why OT "should" be this ridiculously difficult forum to moderate though - I don't find it as such. Unless people expect OT to get some "special treatment", which seems to be the case. Which is fine to a point, but it's not fine when people are deliberately going around flouting rules and encouraging others to flout rules. Then wanting lenience? That's a tricky request to justify...