yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[JAM, MDA Compact, S100 General] :
After all the advise you've been given, you still want something that is perfect for you right out of the box. Let me enlighten you buddy (coz it seems that everyone else knows this), the whole frickin world doesn't revolve around you and that no manufacturer of any type (pocket pc, mobile phone, toilet seat, umbrella maker) is going to make a "skagen perfect device" just to fit YOUR silly ass!

You skagen, by far, is the biggest LOSER i've come across on this forum.
[JAM, MDA Compact, S100 General] Alexkass:
yes. i use this app with eve y ppc i have or try. <only with e800 it didn't work 100%>

this is a must have progy 4 ppc pe that have only 4 re-mappable hardware buttons. ;)
[JAM, MDA Compact, S100 General] skagen:
Perfect for me? No the device should work with simple basic principles and tools that have been establisehd over years of PDA and phone development.

The size of the icons on that screen is a major red flag, for anyone purporting to be selling a phone OS, let alone everything else I have listed.

If you dont like it, go suck on a lemon. The facts are the facts.
[JAM, MDA Compact, S100 General] dangel:
I'm no ghost either - but i don't agree with skagen..

One very happy XDA 2 Pocket PC owner :) Oh, and yes i did take the time to customize my device (many thanks to this forum) and find it no hassle at all to use! TBH atm the way i like to 'dial' is to use fonix voicedial - it's the ultimate in hands free!
[JAM, MDA Compact, S100 General] :
If YOU don't like it, maybe YOU should go suck on a lemon. It seems like you want a pda/phone with a 6inch screen and icons the size of your thumb. But even that would look stupid and would seriously cripple the PDA side of things. Basic principles... if you have such large icons how are you suppossed to fit other things on the screen of a PDA? Basic principles, shrink down your desktop screen to 2.5" and see how big your icons will be. Basic principle, use your stylus, that's what it is there for...just like your mouse. It's a phone/pda. Not just a phone, not just a pda but both... how can you not see that? To have both you have to compromise on some functionalities of the other. BASIC PRINCIPLE.
[JAM, MDA Compact, S100 General] skagen:
Last I checked, even the most basic Nokia managed to put sizeable icons on the tiny 128 x 128 screen I had on my Nokia 6100 ages ago. So why can't decent thought be given to critical icons on a

touchscreen

phone?

As for 6" screens, dicsuss that with the dude above who bough the XDA II brick. I bought a Jam becuase its in the phone class and its mareted that way. I expect decent phone and finger ergnomics in the OS. You dont like it, like I said: your problem.

BTW, just a small thing to show you how little thought has gone into MS Windows SE: go to the programs section which has the programs in rows of 3. Start on

any

prorgam icon and try navigating direclty to the program icon directly below. Can you? Nope. It slides you though the entire list to get there. So what the hell is the point of a 4-way D-pad? Decoration?

Simple things like this only underline the lack of thought here:

- the D-pad being utilzed poorly in this interface. To not even have the D-pad center link to the a start menu when you are at the today screen is just a damn waste

- No battery or memory meter on the home screen? Wait a minute - no batetry meter built in, on a device that is designed to be always on, has a life of 1-2 days max AND will lose your data if the battery runs out? Wow!

-Or the fact that when you "close" a program - IT DOESN'T CLOSE!!!

- No profiles? Hell, every $2 Nokia has customizable profiles built in!

And then everyone and their cousin goes out if forced to write hacks for this. Which you then claim as proof that MS Windows has a lot freeware and programs "choices". Sure it does - to fix the gaping holes MS shouldn't have left in the first place!

What next, will you advocate that companies build cars with no windscreen, to give the car buyer a "choice". How stupid.

Spare me the drivel. This OS was designed by a bunch of bozos. You're probably one of them and that's why your here

anonymously

ranting and raving.
[JAM, MDA Compact, S100 General] Cyber-mate:
MS gaps...

We know darn sure that NEVER microsoft will ever fill the gaps :evil: They were created that way :wink:

After all guys, it is the dilemma of "Desires vs Reality". It is life that you never get anything right nor perfect. You customize it or in this case PERSONALIZE it the way you want it. I know for fact that seldom you find two ppl with one (same) thinking. That's why never those toys -sorry tools- will have the shape, look, functionality or stuff loaded with that fits every liking! Never it will appeal to all! There will always be a space left for 3rd Party to develope. Otherwise MS will then pirate the market even on the tiniest icon thing :!:

I say, even for another 50 yrs, never we shall find and we shall find never a device that's so perfect that looks, works and functions so well it could even work for you :wink:

Guys, the PPC is a PPC. It was built to fit a pocket and that how it supposed to be -xcept for the HP63xx ones. To me I think for those guys to think hard they should come out of the POCKET not the box :P
[JAM, MDA Compact, S100 General] skagen:
I'm not the only one who thinks that several portions of this purported

Mobile Phone

OS were mailed in from a pub on Friday night:

From a review of the HTC Magician:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/02/08/review_htc_magician/page2.html

"Even in its Second Edition, Windows Mobile 2003 doesn't work well one-handed. Too often I needed to pull out the stylus to close a window, activate a menu item or - crucially - write a quick text message, where before I'd just use my thumb."

"But it's still a crime that Windows Mobile 2003 still doesn't have a battery state indicator on the Today screen. Even for PDAs, let alone phones, you shouldn't have to visit the Settings to find out if your device is about to die."
[JAM, MDA Compact, S100 General] dangel:
Rating - 90% :roll:
[JAM, MDA Compact, S100 General] :
Guess there's more than one stupid person out there..... have you not been reading man? Pocket PC's were never meant to be worked one handed...even the phone functionality of the phone edition. I bet if it isn't the size of the icon you're whinging about it'd be that the screen should have the same tactile feedback as a mobile phone key pad.

Here it is again..... POCKET PC PE IS NOT A PHONE! It is a pocket pc with a phone. If you want so much a phone that feels, smells, tastes like a phone, then maybe you should go get a phone, not a pocket pc phone edition?

But yes, i must admit, MS isn't the perfect company out there and yes they did leave out some basics like the battery indicator. Big woop. If the missing battery idicator is what makes it not worth the money you paid, go and buy "real" phone.

Bottom line is, the mini is a great device, OS and all. It has it's short comings but it's not like it's the end of the world or anything. If you don't like it go get a real phone.... coz it sounds like that's what you're really after.

Just curious but is the Mini your first pocket pc device?
[JAM, MDA Compact, S100 General] skagen:
Oh, really? Why does Microsoft's business plan include a major push to dominate phone OS market then? With devices sales subsidized by mobile phone companies? Dont talk about things you clearly dont know about.

When an OS is designed for devices such as the JAM, which

explicitly

compromise on PDA functionality (screen size/wi-fi, memory), in order to enter the mobile phone

size and price market

, your drivel is exposed.

People who wanted a PDA brick with a phone tag on would be in the Wallaby or Blu Angel market. The Jam exists in order to capture into the market of of phone buyers who want PDA capability tagged on.

You cant wander off into another country and pretend that you're at home simply just because you didn't change your clothes! This is not kansas anymore. The phone market has phone expectations. You dont come to the game with sume kluged up OS. Its not gonna work.

Oh, NOW you "admit" this thing was designed by the company's dunce team? You're probably one of them, as best I can tell. Up till now you claimed these devices had NO gaps whatsoever.

What is this some kinda atempted Jedi mind trick? You though that that if you pretended the OS is perfect, everyone will follow you? Fool - all the people here busy trawling the internet searching for the most basic things as as battery meter, are not gonna buy your bull.

Nobody buying Nokia or Samsumg or Ericsson phone is having to trawl obscure mesage baords to be able to know when their battery will die! Next 12 months when their replacemen cycle comes up, guess what happens?

In this market, you dont step up to the plate properly and you're toast. This is NOT like the PC monopoly business.
[JAM, MDA Compact, S100 General] :
OK then, if you are to believed and MS has made such a mess of it, what is the competition like?

Priced to enter the Mobile Phone Only market? Get real, this thing costs as much as the Sony P910.

Lousy UI? Show me a P910 user who doesn't have to use the stylus more than on the Jam.

Subsidised by Mobile Phone companies who push it purely as a phone? Rubbish. They sell it because the revenue they hope to get from a typical "Mobile Professional" user of a wireless Pocket PC - consistently high GPRS usage from synching his Office mail, as well as high daytime call usage.

What's wrong with third party apps and enhancements? Why shouldn't it be up to the user to customise the product to his own needs? Isn't that the beauty of having an open platform? I bet your Symbian user would give his eye's teeth to have such a choice.

Not that anyone claims the Jam is perfect, far from it. The Treo, for instance, is second to none in one handed usability and navigation. Shame they've an outdated single tasking OS and screwed up memory.

Everyone, apart from skagen, knows what they are getting when they buy a Windows Mobile device. The UI is designed to be make Windows users feel at home. Most people are prepared to work with that, in the full knowledge that the extensive third developer support means that virtually anything they want to do, someone will have written a program to do it. Skagen seems to suggest that this counts *against* the OS - just because he isn't prepared to get of his ass and use it.

Then again, this _is_ the guy that claims that Windows Mobile devices are not sold on their Windows look and feel :?

So I challenge you again - show us any other GPRS/GSM enabled, full capability PDA that matches the features of the Jam? If it's so crap, there must be hundreds of them out there!
[JAM, MDA Compact, S100 General] skagen:
This here above is the kind of Microsoft propaganda which exposes you as a charlatan.

A lack of battery meter or memory meter is not "customizing". Who are you kidding? Its an

egregious omission

. A lack of profile switchcing tool is also a very basic concept.

If you want to talk about weather plug insor whatever, by all means 3rd party software is fine. But basic tools are totally missed here. Even the cheapest $10 phone has a battery meter for chrissakes!

And this is a phone - period. Last I checked, there are sellers peddlng the JAM here in the UK for 20 bucks or even less on a 100 min per month T-mobile contract.

http://www.scancom.co.uk/product.php/84/1/

The target is kids, 20's something year olds. 40-50 year old business users do not go for 100 min/ month contracts - at least not here in the UK. All of these buyers are picking up a phone - and most likely will never go back to a PPC phone after a few months with this thing!

If you have evidence of the P910 being sold at such prices, post it here. You wont - because you

cant

! Instead you'll diverge to another propaganda rant.

But dont insult people's intelligence by pretending that this OS has not abdicated responsiility in many areas. Not everyone is as stupid as you.o
[JAM, MDA Compact, S100 General] Fugs:
And how many resellers are selling/marketing it as a PDA?

Dude, you seem to think it is a phone just because some (maybe majority maybe not majority, I dunno) are marketing the Jam as a phone. If I marketed an ashtray as a living room ornament, does that make it a living room ornament? No. It is first and foremost an ashtray. Sorry for the lame example but I hope you see what i'm trying to get at.

Anyway, if you don't like it just move on. As I always say in situations like this... build a bridge... and get over it. Unless of course you've made it your life's ambition and purpose to expose MS for all it's iniquities? If you don't like what they did, maybe a palm device would suit you better? And if a converged device doesn't tickle your fancy, maybe a separate phone and pda. Or you could always go back to a phone and notebook/diary.

Whatever you choose I hope you'll be happy with it.
[JAM, MDA Compact, S100 General] :
Skagen, dont bother arguing with the medieval brainers.. they just dont understand power users or technology.. they're just the bottom half of the population IQ.

I agree with you, I want a PDA and Phone integrated, with truely optimised ergonomics. The hardware are good enough for the tasks needed.. but the Standard PPC2003 SE just has not delivered.

Exactly as what theregister.co.uk said (if you havn't read, read).. Its 2005 for god's sake.. User Interface and ergonomics are the most important designs, they as the direct contacts to the users.. and the worlds largest software company can't even deliver.. can't they just be a little more creative by giving more options on the interface, eg. for users that want phone based ergonomic interfce and the PDA based ergonomics interface.. or maybe automatically switch when certain buttons are pressed.. ??

for oh my god.. Bill gates should sack all the PPC2003 team!!!
[JAM, MDA Compact, S100 General] :
We can argue this until the cows come home. I know English is not your first language, but by saying that "this is a phone - period." you are by definition stating that Jam Pocket PC is a phone and nothing else. That is plainly ludicrous as everyone else can see apart from you!

Check your dictionary again. That's one seller, singular, not sellers, plural. All other retailers have the Jam at £350-400. T-Mobile have it at £130 + rental for low usage contracts. Chances are Scancom are passing on some of their commision to get the price so low, and relying on having a huge turnover instead. Which no doubt they're getting giving the publicity they've had on forums like this.

Again, you show how detached you are from the real world. Box shifters like Scancom don't "target" anybody - all they are interested in is being the cheapest and using that to shifting as many units as possible. They don't give damn who they're selling to or if it's right for them. Why should they? Leave that to the high street shop advisors with their big overhead. Mainstream retailers who research their market and pitch their prices at the maximum it can stand, and sell at least £100 more.[/quote]

Planet Skagen again. You must work in a strange place. Where on earth is the average IT-aware, gadget-seeking "mobile professional" aged 40-50?

Quite right too. They've an eye for a bargain. The very next thing they do is unlock the MDA for £15 and stick in their corporate SIM. Check any of the threads if you don't believe me - the most common question after "how much is it" is "how do I unlock it".

Good thing too. No business in it's right mind wants to keep customers who are incapable of reading a product description and insist on buying something totally unsuitable for their needs. Or constantly claim that a product called a Pocket PC "is a phone - period.".

For once you are right. But only because it is well known that Sony keep a *very* tight control on their pricing - and will swiftly stop supplying, or invoke stringent clawback penalties, on any dealer who tries to sell their products too cheaply.

I dont doubt it. But in this thread there is plenty of evidence that someone is far worse :P
[JAM, MDA Compact, S100 General] :
Skagen is way ahead of you damb arses..

you remember 15 years ago when motorola came out with the massive brick phone?

if Skagen had complained to motorola then that their contacts were totally crap, would you have told him

"if you want a contact book then go buy a contact book?"

i guess not... think ahead people..

i can argue so muc hmore but i dont want to waste my time educating some of you who are just close minded..
[JAM, MDA Compact, S100 General] :
Is *anything* this guy says based on fact? Both are available as standard in the control panel. Just where a Windows user would expect to find them. And far more comprehensive than anything on a Nokia.

Look and Feel - geddit?

The 3rd party utilities just let you display that where you want, in the format you want - as a small title bar icon, a row of dots across the screen, or a full blown bar graph on the Today screen. MS provide the tools - you decide how to use them.

Choice - geddit?

I guess he never will. He probably only eats at restaurants with laminated menus. "Set Meal for One again Sir?"
[JAM, MDA Compact, S100 General] :
Simple than, go buy something else! Some of us prefer to tailor those ergonomics to the individual way and taste of how *we* work - not somebody elses idea of what that should be.

The ironic thing is, whatever you say, (and nobody has said WM is perfect), it's still the only OS that allows you total freedom to do just that.
[JAM, MDA Compact, S100 General] :
here we go again..

LOL.. are you writing you own code? No... designing your own buttons and ergonomics? No.. then why did you just contradict yourself?

Why reinvent the wheel? because the world's largest software company can't do the job properly!

we just need a good standard for all this mess.. WM is not and its MS's fault because they are CRAP!
[JAM, MDA Compact, S100 General] :
Some? approxiamtely how many %?

if WM is really crap then maybe 90%

which is probably is...

trust me you'll need the freedom!.. because its totally crap in standard form. :lol:

Now, why didn't symbian need this freedom as much?

tick tock tick tock.. because it has been design with some thought.. so they dont rely on third party software as much..

:wink:
[JAM, MDA Compact, S100 General] :
Write my own code? No neeed to. Obviously you can't read either.

"Most people are prepared to work with that, in the full knowledge that the extensive third developer support means that virtually anything they want to do, someone will have written a program to do it."

Despite what you say, not everybody wants to do things your way, or have there UI predetermined in ROM.

Some of us like the freedom to choose for ourselves, and the wherewithall to install a CAB file.
[JAM, MDA Compact, S100 General] arfster:
Not quite - the P910 is still about 20% more expensive without a contract, and the Magician is a brand new device. Give it a few months and the price difference will be fairly wide.

Generally I'd agree. Windows Mobile certainly has several silly flaws: the close icons thing, the lack of a battery indicator, the UI is imperfect in a few other fairly obvious ways. However, Battery Pack Pro solves all the problems, and in a way that suits me.

Basically, I look at the Magician like this: it's phone sized, but with the additional capability to access the internet, carry a few hundred mp3s, a dictionary, a thesaurus, a guitar tuner, a dictaphone, spanish and french dictionaries, street maps of several cities, etc etc etc. Unless you happen to make enormous numbers of calls or need to text on the move, the small flaws in one-handed operation are not going to be a problem - certainly not enough to overcome the benefits of having all the above with you in one device.
[JAM, MDA Compact, S100 General] :
What I was implying was that if you wanted to individualise and not somebody else's idea blah blah.. you 'll need to design you own stuff

(i mean why buy third party? they are somebody else's idea too)

OK OK enough enough.. you win.. WM is the best..

(but why can't they just...... oh bugger it)
[JAM, MDA Compact, S100 General] :
No one here has shown one example of anything else that comes close - and as I said, if it's that crap, there must be *something* out there. No? Well that can only mean that, in the technical sense of the word, it *is* the best. Love it or loathe it, it's all we've got.

But, as I have shown here many times, all the shortcomings that it's critics claim make it unusable, can be overcome with the use of small add-ons, many of which are free. So the final solution is something which is *very* usable and is tailored to one's own needs and tastes.

Of course, if Palm had got their proverbial finger out, and given us a Treo with Cobalt and some decent memory, we would in a completely different ball game.
[JAM, MDA Compact, S100 General] :
damn right - finally!

As an owner of the SE P900 'Guest' hit the nail on the head for me. It's the best we've got, for the moment.

Pros:

- Size, a PDA and Phone with 240*320 screen but without the bulk of the XDA II. That's the compromise. We want as much as they can cram into this small sized PDA.

- Lots of apps. Developers out there are helping people extend till their hearts are content -

but also fixing the bugs

. To do anything useful (even to save a phone number to the contacts!) you had to open the flip on the P900 and then the screen icons were TINY. Out came the stylus. The Treo is probably better in this respect but it's CHUNKY.

- SD IO slot. Compared to MemStick it's the bees knees. But yes Palm and Nokia have also got this plus point. (Except that Nokia have started pis***ing people off with their RS dual voltage malarky, and the card's under the battery in some phones!)

- Stylus when I want to use it (sometimes when I don't). Better than S60 (no stylus, everything is T9). Better than UIQ (have to use the stylus to save a phone number).

Cons:

- Cramped layout. In my personal opinion this is not the fault of MS. The OS was made for the XDA size. HTC have squashed it into a 2.5" screen FOR US. That said, it's better than the UIQ tabs and even the SE Desktop app (for UIQ P910) has a couple of REALLY small buttons.

- They should've allowed the selection button to open the Start menu! If you scroll to the top the selection bar / highlight 'disappears' into the Start bar / status bar. If the middle button could open the Start menu from there I'd be happier. In some ways this could be a simple keylock idea but I use the power button as my keylock. Originally I mapped the contacts button to the Start button, but now I've learnt to use my nail (after I got the screen protector).

- Battery meter! This is a glaringly obvious mistake by MS.

There's much more we could say, but overall... it's the best PDA/phone combo,

for me

, at the moment.
[JAM, MDA Compact, S100 General] :
To get back on topic ... You can see from these pictures of the HTC Universal that, as predicted, it has Smartphone style context sensitive menu buttons, as well as dedicated Start and OK buttons, ready for WM2005. No doubt that still won't be good enough for some people :)

http://www.msmobiles.com/news.php/3584.html