yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[JAM, MDA Compact, S100 General] skagen:
I dont know any indusrty analyst who does not agree that these devices are converging - which has clear implications for software and OS makers: phone interface gets used often and requires seamless finger usage.

Especially on devices with no physical phone keyboard

! No rocket science required there.

And once you start selling OS software tilted "Windows Mobile 2003 Se for Mobile Phone", you're on the hook to delver something that works appropriately as a mobile phone OS! There is no escaping that one.

Ditto when your OS is designed for devices such as the Moto MPX and the Jam and the Eten 500. These are devices clearly made for those who are phone-oriented and will carry the device in their pocket everywhere - as opposed to the XDA II buyer who is more or a PDA and phone is just tacked on. Its in the Microsoft business plan to attack the market for such phone-like devices to challenge the treo and Blackberry - so they've gotta deliver credible phone ergonomics too!

I'd understand the omissions in 2002, maybe even 2003. But to come out with 2005 (when convergence is patently obvious and they are pushing heavily to be a phone OS) and they are still missing the boat with "Windows for PC" as the bedrock of their ergonomics?

As I said, I'd love to know what their user experience research budget is going on. A bunch of first year designs school students would have picked up on the obvious - as you yourself agree: if its a phone OS, you must have an credible option to go stylus-less, espcially for those primary phone options. As it is we are still at the level where dialers and today screen add-ons are legitamate commercial software. The OS should have presented a legitimate soultion there. That would be live Windows Longhorm coming out and they have a 3rd rate browser and a 3rd rate search engine as default in the OS. That's just not on - it's your primary interface and the OS must offer something up to par there, otherwise you are forcing users into slow and memory-eating add-ons such as Mobi Dial.
[JAM, MDA Compact, S100 General] Guest:
Errr.. please come back when you know what you are talking about. Smartphone Edition doesn't have on screen buttons - how can it when it doesn't have a touch screen. You *CAN* do everything with one hand. That's the whole point of the programmable menus at the bottom, one of which kicks off the Start menu.
[JAM, MDA Compact, S100 General] Guest:
To make this clearer - all the menus on Smartphone Editions are linked to hard buttons on the phone. So the everything can be done one handed, and the size of icons doesn't matter jack sh*t. As for PE 2005 - that's why the new menus have appeared at the bottom - to give the benefits of Smartphone Editione on Phone Edition - so you don't have to touch the screen or dig out your stylus for common operations.

Why the obsession with the start logo, when tapping anywhere on the text will do? And why do you need to do this to get to the "phone" functions you keep banging on about? That's what the Green, Red, Contact and Calendar hardware buttons (and the Smartphone style "soft" keys) are for. What's difficult about that? If that's too complicated for you - maybe you should to go back to a Nokeeeyah!
[JAM, MDA Compact, S100 General] skagen:
I said the DEVICE is primarily phone-style one. Therefore the primary mode of use is fingers not stylus. - This means that various programs (which are buried in the start menu) need to be more accessible. Which is not the same thing as saying that its a phone and all you need is phone access.

If you think people buy a £400 PPC phone for calendar and contacts programs alone, then you dont know much about the market. The other programs the device runs need to be better accessible.

I couldn't care less if microsoft groupies are offended - it is a fact that Nokia has a better grips on the software ergonimics. If it makes you emotional, too bad. I'm more concerned with the fact that MS needs to think beyond the cliche and ergonimics of a Windows PC when they are designing a PHONE.
[JAM, MDA Compact, S100 General] Mikee4fun:
:D skagen, you are "gay" Go jackoff to your garbage Symbian OS which is buggier than bloody hell. :P
[JAM, MDA Compact, S100 General] Matterhorn:
And Mikee you're an As*Hol* :evil:
[JAM, MDA Compact, S100 General] skagen:
Its a phone, dude. If it hs got things wrong with it, that's just the facts. If I though Symbian phones was better, then I'd buy a Symbian phone - duh! The Jam is better hardware than what's available on Symbian, but actually OS is not as intutive as Symbian.

This Win Mobile for PPC phone OS has some major failings and omissions - which is the very reason the XDA Develpers exists: til fill the gaps. And BTW, , we are not here to be teenage PPC fan-boys.That's for the kids on Howard Forums. This website here is about realistic assessment of these devices.
[JAM, MDA Compact, S100 General] Guest:
You just don't get it do you? They ARE accessible without using the stylus using the fully configurable HARDWARE BUTTONS, D-PAD navigation, on some models JOG DIALS and START and CLOSE BUTTONS, and with 2005, the SMART BUTTONS linked to the context sensitive menus at the bottom of the screen. Sheesh!
[JAM, MDA Compact, S100 General] Guest:
Have you actually watched someone using a Symbian PDA/Phone combo? Yes, that's right. If you're not dialing a number, it's time to tap tappity tap with the stylus. The P800-910 series have LESS buttons, and so LESS direct access to applications, (not to mention, many 1000 less aplications) than devices using PPC PE!
[JAM, MDA Compact, S100 General] skagen:
The hardware buttons are already allocated for things that people would use. So its silly to be telling people "you can remap your contacts button to dictionary". Ok then - so how am I gonna get the contacts quickly.

On the Tungsten E, for example hit the center button on the D pad and you can immediately start pagig through your applications. Try that on the Jam- you cant. That's lame.
[JAM, MDA Compact, S100 General] Mikee4fun:
Hah, I have never had any problems with any of my XDA II phones. I will say I did have problems with my XDA IIs which was and is the biggest a piece of crap known to mankind, so I sold it. The statement saying that XDA Developers is here to fill the gap for fixing pocket pc's I think is a rather incorrect statement. Because I look it at a site for hacking the pocket pc rather than fixing it, that is for the most part. ( Like installing different company's roms, etc) However I will say, the bluetooth stacks posts where for a fix which was fuc.... by widcom and not written by microsoft. :lol:
[JAM, MDA Compact, S100 General] :
Simple. Remap the contacts button, or one of the side buttons, to the Start Menu. Scroll through the apps with the D-Pad. Just like your precious Tungsten.

Simple. Press the Green button! Or are you too blinkered to notice that the Phone app is a front end to the Contacts database? It's also available on the top level of the Start menu. Or tap the icon in your favorite Today screen launcher. Or use Voice Commander. So many options, shame you're too blinkered (or thick) to see any of them.
[JAM, MDA Compact, S100 General] skagen:
I think youre the one who is blinkered. The button is mapped to contacts becuase contacts should be at hand. You should not be forced to remapping already needed needed buttons or convoluted tricks to get to the program home page.

These are things which should have been worked out in user interface testing.

The Contact section PIM is suppsed to be more than a number lookup. It has notes and all kind of data there. The phone dialer is not gona give you that in any useful way, if at all.

You're the one who is blinkered. Not that one would expect anything useful from an

anonymous MS fanboy

....
[JAM, MDA Compact, S100 General] :
No one is forced to remap buttons to activate the Start menu. Most people manage perfectly fine by touching the screen with their finger. Only you seem to have a problem with that. All the same, you wanted instant start button access without touching the screen. I've shown you how simple it is to have what you require.

You rant against Windows Mobile in general, not just the Jam, but I see you're still completely ignoring the fact that devices like the XDAII, and up and coming WM2005 devices, have even more buttons to available make the device work just the way you want.

And as for the contacts not being at hand...

You don't say...

Now you are _really_ showing that you don't have a clue. Let's try something - Press the Green button. Find and highlight the contact you want using the dialler. Press Select.

Shock horror - It has notes and all kind of data there

Why's that then? Maybe because you are now in Outlook Contacts? (check the top of the screen). Even quicker than using the original Contacts button, because you didn't have to use the stylus to do the search.

Actually, I prefer the Palm OS UI, but current Palm models are sadly crippled by lack of memory and multitasking. But, unlike you, instead of crying "Mommy, it doesn't work!", I've taken time to find out how to tailor the OS, UI and hardware to my way of working (which is different for everyone).

Now go away, read the manual again, and if it's still too bewildering, give your Jam to someone who appreciates it for more than "It's a phone".
[JAM, MDA Compact, S100 General] skagen:
Total innacuracy and lack of perspective. For example:

a) Its not faster than being in contacts

b) you cannot see address etc in that lookup

c) you're STILL talking about navigating via tiny buttons glued to the bottom of the screen - which on the jam you are basically having to hit with a nail to be accurate

Acres of screen space are wasted, critical info is not present and you are left pressing tiny corners of a screen. All of which underscores that basic ergonomics and user experience are totally ignored here. Again the Windows/PC-derived layout of the screen is exposed as being patently innapropriate in this class of device.

And

that

is what you hail as a success? Only underscores your cluelessness Go get a life and stop ranting making excuses for an OS that was designed without proper thought.
[JAM, MDA Compact, S100 General] :
I have a P900 and a Magician at my hands but since I have the magician I have never used the buggy P900 Symbian smartphone anymore.

The very robust synchronization (also BT works perfectly) and the nearly endless possibilities are combined in a really handy device - I don't want to miss it anymore ;)

PS: All the Palm users in my department are jealous as hell :D
[JAM, MDA Compact, S100 General] :
Yet again, you're talking out of your a*se. Here's proof that using the Contacts takes longer and is harder:-

Contacts lookup using the Phone screen:-

1. Press Green Button

2. Tap 3 search characters on phone keypad

3. Tap to highlight correct Contact.

4. Press Dpad centre button to view details.

5. Jam shows all information in Contacts Summary screen

Using the "Contacts" button:-

1. Press Contacts button

2. Retrieve stylus

3. Tap in Search window to enable input cursor.

4. Type 3 search characters on virtual keyboard.

5. Tap correct contact.

6. Jam shows all information in the Contacts Summary screen.

7. Put away stylus.

Q.E.D.

Either you're doing this completely wrong, or you're just blind. Using the Green button method above shows all the address and notes information that is held in Contacts - because I AM IN THE CONTACTS APPLICATION.

You must be hearing voices in your head. WHERE HAVE I USED ANY OF THE ICONS AT THE BOTTOM OF THE SCREEN?

Get this into your thick skull. My Jam is showing me all the critical information I need, including addresses and notes, because I'm viewing the Summary page in the Contacts application. I have not pressed any icons at the bottom or the corners of the screen to get there.

And

that

Only underscores your cluelessness !
[JAM, MDA Compact, S100 General] skagen:
Nope you're the clueless one. if that center button were to be mapped to anything - it should be mappd to the START button in the first place!

Second if that native dialer were any use, then everyone wouldn't be abandoning it and there wouldn't be dialer apps being sold by the bushel all over the place

This is is full of gaps and holes - which obviously you cannot get through you thick skull.
[JAM, MDA Compact, S100 General] :
My answers have simply proved that every one of the "examples" you gave of WM's poor usability are based entirely on supposition, prejudice and lies. I can only conclude that because you cannot counter this, you are either incapable of understanding plain English or are unable to verify them in practice because you don't actually have a Jam of your own.

...which would be really convenient when Start popped up very time you wanted to Select something.

[/plonk]
[JAM, MDA Compact, S100 General] Paragon:
Ok, before someone launches a weapon of mass destruction and makes a mess of everything.......does everyone realize that to activate the start menu you can not only hit the icon, but the word "start" as well. This makes it very easy to activate the start menu. In fact as a test I just tried using the meaty pad of my thumb, the portion you would use to make a thumb print. It's pretty big and a very inaccurate way to touch small spot in a corner of a screen. In 25 tries I missed once. ;)

As well, don't forget there are tons of 3rd party apps that allow the user to put shortcuts right on the Today Screen for quick, single tap access. :)

Dave
[JAM, MDA Compact, S100 General] :
Quite right Paragon. Even Skagen's first example in his long list of complaints and misconceptions was completely wrong, as I pointed out at the start of this thread. Perhaps it's his brain that's the size of a pea :P
[JAM, MDA Compact, S100 General] :
Yet more nonsense from the skagen. Everyone? You do have a distorted view of the world, don't you?

1. Most of these apps pre-date the Jam and were originally intended for the likes of the XDA which didn't have IntelliPad or IntelliDial.

2. It's all about *choice* , a concept you're probably not familiar with. There are just as many replacement diallers and PIM apps available for the Treo as there are for the Jam. Does that mean the default Treo UI is crap? Hardly - it's consistently rated as the best smart phone UI out there.

Let's face it skagen, Windows Mobile is *sold* on the Windows look and feel. Most people get along with that quite happily. WM2005 will improve that even further by bringing over the benefits of Smartphone Edition to PPC PE. But it's not for everyone, which is why plenty of alternatives exist.

If you loathe MS and WM PPC PE so much, why on earth did you buy a Jam?

Still, let's end on a constructive note. Why not take a look at the Neonode? Sure, it's riddled with bugs, is crap as a phone, and has virtually no third party support, but it has a *Wonderful* UI.
[JAM, MDA Compact, S100 General] skagen:
N0 - its sold on syncing more the Windows look. If you had a clue, you'd know that. And if you describe closing a program - which actually doesn't close but eats up your RAM - as "Windows look and feel", more power to you in your fantasy world.

And this one: "why on earth did you buy a Jam?" Duh, you idiot, I didn't know how stupid the WM 2003 SE interface was until I actually had one for a while. If its supposed to be a PHONE, you'd expect the OS to be prperly designed for that. To describe a lack of a proper telephone and finger-oriencted interface on a

phone

OS, as "choice" is laughable. Brainless propaganda....

Go suck Bill Gates ass somemore or whatever you do for a living when you're not posting anonymous drivel on the internet.
[JAM, MDA Compact, S100 General] :
There you you go again, blaming everyone else but yourself for not doing the research and making the wrong buying decision. Seemingly everyone else but you realises the Jam isn't designed or sold just a PHONE. The clue is in the OS title for God's sake!

1. "Windows Mobile POCKET PC Phone Edition" for those who primarily want a POCKET PC PDA with added phone capability.

2. "Windows Mobile SMARTPHONE Edition" for those who primarily want a PHONE with added PDA capability.
[JAM, MDA Compact, S100 General] :
How many of ou use the memo button? That is the one i have remapped to start, and it works like a charm. I use my compac with one hand for calling, looking up contacts and the agenda. Remap the memo button for start, problem solved. :D
[JAM, MDA Compact, S100 General] Looking Glass:
That said, this is the ONE reason to be in this forum, to fill the GAP! (Capitals fully intentional)

It has taken one full year for me to get a barely functional BT HandsFree connection with my "convergent" 1000$ Qtek 2020 device. 100$ 3 year old phones made it without a glitch! And this has been done with the help of this forum, NO ONE ELSE (HTC, Qtek, etc) comes to help.

I've learned the hard way that there where such things as HandsFree and HeadSet "profiles". Does anyone hear of a SonyEricsson BT phone user that knows the hell about it? They JUST USE THEIR DEVICES! And they ALL work!

Blame to MS and HTC!

:evil: :evil: :evil:
[JAM, MDA Compact, S100 General] :
Doulbe launcher @ freeware for god sake!

try to learn something. ppc are tools not toys...

www.clubpocketpc.gr

www.myphone.gr
[JAM, MDA Compact, S100 General] Ineedtoys:
Vito Buttonmapper has just been updated to work with the Jam.

You need v3.22 from http://vitotechnology.com/files/prerelease/

Works a treat, e.g.

Press+Hold Contacts button for Start Menu.

Press+Hold Calendar button for OK/Close.

Does the freeware do the same? I haven't had chance to d/l it yet.
[JAM, MDA Compact, S100 General] Ineedtoys:
The first is, well, all Greek to me :wink: , and the second one is a blank page?

Anyway, Double Launcher is at http://www.orthancsoftware.com/DLauncher.htm

Same price as Buttonmapper, but looks the more flexible of the two.
[JAM, MDA Compact, S100 General] skagen:
I have no idea what rock you crawled from under but these classification are null, void and outdated. These devices are coverging - which is why windows is getting rid of the crippled and pointless Smartphone OS.

Poeple want a device that works as they use it - its a phone. Otherwise HTC would have stuck with the huge size of the Blue Angel in the first place!
[JAM, MDA Compact, S100 General] arfster:
The Magician has blurred the lines - I wanted a phone with some PDA functions, yet bought the MDA Compact. With its size there's no real downside, as smartphones are no smaller.
[JAM, MDA Compact, S100 General] :
Have you actually used Smartphone Edition? In fact it gives the very UI you so crave - it is 80% a phone, and everything is done by dedicated buttons and shortcuts, with no little icons or touch screen for your big thumbs to worry about. Actually it works *very* well as a phone - which is why PPC PE 2005 is incorporating some of its best features (e.g the two context sensitive menus linked to dedicated hardware buttons below the screen).

So the only reason for HTC (or any other manufacturer) to miniaturise a Pocket PC is to make it into a phone? Let's ask the horse's mouth, the official i-Mate JAM product description from http://www.imate.com/products.php?id=10 :-

Good things come in small packages. At last, a mini version of our world leading Pocket PCs.

The i-mate™ JAM is the essential lifestyle tool for work or play. It's very stylish, packed with features and completely customisable. The smooth curves of this mini Pocket PC cleverly hide it's massive functionality.

Designed for those who demand value without compromise on quality you effectively get 10 devices in 1! A digital camera, video recorder, PC, MP3 player, video player, gaming console, dictaphone, calculator, personal organiser, and... a mobile phone!

Now what kind of idiot would read that description and conclude that the last feature on the list was the only design brief for the JAM? Ska(It's a phone, dude)gen, that's who.
[JAM, MDA Compact, S100 General] skagen:
Its not ONLY a phone, but the part an idiot like you would miss is that unlike the lame toy camera it has, the PHONE aspect cannot be slapped together that easily.

And last I checked the device is selling in volume via mobile phone companies - who market it as a phone. So you you go and put 2+2 togther. Sime time in 2055, maybe you will figure out if this thing is a phone and quit making stupid excuses.

If you want a phone+PDA I guess you want a crippled OS? This one is a stupid comment.

None of this still gets past the issue of having a touch screen with stupid things like "close: button the size of a pea in one corner either.

Just shut up and go home. You're an apologist - and not a very convicing one at that. Which is why you are posting anonyously.
[JAM, MDA Compact, S100 General] :
Guest2 - wise words, which sum up the thread pretty accurately. Not that skagen will agree, I'm sure. Myself and others have shown that every example skagen has quoted of the terrible shortcomings of his Jam (e.g. can't easily launch Start, can't get to address information though the phone app) is without foundation. We have given him step by step instructions on how to use and customise the Jam to his needs, and where to get utilities to make things even easier. He hasn't listened to a word and has just responded with abuse. Some people don't deserve help.
[JAM, MDA Compact, S100 General] skagen:
You're writing ghost replies to yourself, now. Very nice.

At the end of the day you have no point. A device whose PRIMARY market is to be sold under heavy subsidy by phone companies cannot be considerd properly done if it isn't dealing well with obvious phone ergonomics. So WM 2003SE fails on that regard.

And as I said re-mapping of buttons is still - since it deprives you of the ability to use the orginal funtion of that button if you need it. So the SCREEN and navigtion buttons need to be properly designed.

At the end of the day, you fail to see that. Which is why you are posting anonymously - and at this point replying to yourself.
[JAM, MDA Compact, S100 General] :
Uh, dude....

Just so you know, my words are not ghost words. It just so happens that I'm in medical school and I don't have the time to register. Or do I need to??? I don't know. Need I point out differing writing styles???

Anyway, I have a saying... in my language... "No ngu thi cho no ngu." (vietnamese.) Translates to... roughly that is... "just let stupid people be, its ok."

:shock:
[JAM, MDA Compact, S100 General] :
Yet more drivel. If you actually took time to read some of the suggestions you've been given on here instead of spouting off, you'll have noted that the whole point of utilities like ButtonMapper and Double Launcher is to RETAIN the original function of the buttons, and add extra functionality by the use of Press+Hold etc. And that even without those utilities, there are alternative ways acheiving the same function which are just as easy (such as viewing Contacts via the Phone app).

The whole ethos of xda-developers is to help one another get the best out of WM PPC PE devices.

I have shown that all the issues you have with your Jam are misconceived and can be overcome. More importantly, I (and other contributors to the thread) have offerred you specific solutions to all of the usability problems you are having with MS, Windows, PPC PE and the Jam.

All you have done (and still do) is to cry and moan about how poorly designed WM and the Jam are and how difficult you find them to use. If you refuse to listen, or even try out any of the suggestions, fine. Just stop wasting our time, sell your Jam and go find something else that suits you better.

Best do it soon though, as your latest delusion that anyone who disagrees with you must be me, or a ghost of me, suggests your mental health is suffering. I suppose Microsoft will get the blame for that, too.
[JAM, MDA Compact, S100 General] skagen:
Keep chatting with yourself.....
[JAM, MDA Compact, S100 General] Fugs:
You complain that the MS OS is crippled, yet people show you alternatives to get around that.

You complain that a converged device should be a phone, so people tell you to go buy a phone.

Dude, if you want a mobile phone, go get a mobile phone!