yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[One (M7) General] m0nz:
Ya know, I've been trying to find some hard evidence regarding operational, storage, and charging temperatures, but am finding it difficult because this is a 3.8v lipo. Batteries keep getting better and better and I know the 3.7 ORIGINAL lipos have a max charging temp around 45c, according to Panasonic, and they are no small name in the battery biz. I've seen reports that newer batteries can handle higher temperatures and this being a 3.8v lipo makes me wonder! Time will tell! Oh how I love being a beneficiary of technological advancements!

If anyone has anymore info on this ^ that would awesome.
[One (M7) General] ZircularLogic:
I can vouch for the OP's concept of keeping the battery from reaching completely full or completely empty. I originally learned about that from hybrid cars. Manufacturers try to keep hybrid batteries somewhere in the 40-80% range (varies by brand and model) because they need to last a long time and batteries do degrade when kept fully discharged or fully charged. My own experience is with a couple of Thinkpad laptops, which come standard with user-settable charge points. When it's just sitting on my desk I have my current laptop set to charge to a maximum of 80% and not to bother charging until it gets below 65%. It gets fully-charged only when I need to take it on the road. After nearly two years the original battery still has no measurable loss of capacity.

One of the really nice things about the One is the big battery. I don't need anywhere near full capacity to get through a light to moderate day, so I just plug it in sometime during the evening and unplug it when I go to bed. It is usually in the 85-90% range when I unplug, and I seldom see below 30% by the following evening. If I know I'll be travelling or something, I'll just charge it overnight and not worry about it. I figure it probably needs to be fully charged once in a while to stay calibrated, anyway.
[One (M7) General] adamlayzell69:
I have read this post and i have to say i agree with Nippero. When i heard that HTC was going to use lipo battery's instead of li-ion i was very surprised. I have flown RC aircraft for a long time now and i regularly use lipo packs and i know how much more dangerous they are compared to other battery's. They are far more superior to any other battery but they do have to be looked after and not abused. getting them hot and overcharging is a big nono. Under vol-ting them by letting them run out will cause massive life expectancy loss in them too. there is an article that everyone should read in this link here:

http://www.jconceptsevents.com/events/clash/Lipos.pdf

Some of it does relate to RC models but the basis of it is all the same.

Also watch this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DcpANRFrI4

Lipo's are great and also nasty things (but im sure HTC have thought about that)

Thanks for the post, it is definitely helpful!
[One (M7) General] switchblademaster:
anyone experiencing battery drain in power save mode?
[One (M7) General] BenPope:
I don't know what's so suprising, my Nokia 7110 from over 13 years ago had a LiPo battery. Most phones do now, I guess you just haven't been paying attention!
[One (M7) General] c5satellite2:
Biggest enemy is still heat. Charge to 100% is not really 100% and discharge to 0% isn't really 0%.

Leaving it on charger after it reaches 100% does nothing bad because it stops charging at that point.

Here is something that actually matters:

Don't leave your phone in your car on a sunny day!

Worrying about when to charge or when not to charge is really overthinking.

Only time when you shouldn't charge is if the battery is already hot.

Never had any issues with my phones, for example: I use quick charge and fast usb charging on my HOXL and the battery life is still awesome on it. Just sat for 12 days on one charge after over a year of heavy use.

Stop stressing about nothing and ENJOY THE PHONE! After all it's just a phone and two years down the road we will all have a new one anyway. Battery will be just fine for AT LEAST 3 years. By then we will have lithium sulfur batteries and you WILL want one of them. Much better capacity, safer, and more tolerant of heat and charging.
[One (M7) General] Magpir:
I agree on the heat part . The phone tends to get hot easily on a sunny day even in the pocket
[One (M7) General] backfromthestorm:
If anyone's that bothered, all they need is a wall plug timer.. set for say, 3.5 hrs. But leaving it plugged in when it's not being used wouldn't be a problem. It's playing heavy games with it plugged in that's not clever.
[One (M7) General] harlenm:
That's because the device barely uses battery while in deep sleep. I fell asleep with my phone at 3% and when I woke up 8 hours later it was still at 3%.
[One (M7) General] Rust123bg:
The phone charges to 4.3V at 100% which is an overcharge. If the reading is right, this is not recommended. 4.2V is the max safe voltage for Li-ion and Li-po.
[One (M7) General] dmullaney:
Steve Gibson, from the Security Now Podcast, answered this question very well:

Full Transcript, where he goes into the Chemistry of Li-ion batteries:

https://www.grc.com/sn/sn-322.htm

http://media.GRC.com/sn/sn-322-lq.mp3
[One (M7) General] stmilosh:
It's not that simple. It is not the maximum voltage that kills the battery (or ages it faster, even though it certainly plays a role) but operating temperature. So in order to extend battery life the best would be to avoid fast charging as much as possible (charging with 200mA current certainly is better for longevity than charging with 1000mA current) since battery temperature increases greatly with the charging current, avoid using apps that are extremely CPU intensive, avoid using phone in extremely hot conditions.

It is not so easy to follow these rules.

Regarding charging, most of smartphones (even old ones) have quite efficient charging circuit controller that cuts down a lot charging current when battery charge goes over 80 or 90%. Most of it is done automatically since battery internal resistance increases with level of charge. Basically charging profile follows log curve. That is why it takes more time for phone to charge from 85% to 100% than from 0 to 85%.

Therefore by following these listed "rules-of-thumb" you can improve battery life only marginally so better not to expect miracles (like going from 500 to 3000 charge cycles).

---------- Post added at 03:46 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:35 PM ----------

You are totally right.

Moreover as I mentioned, charging circuit is really smart. On HTC One, maximum charging current in normal conditions is limited to 1A (when charge level is below 40%), latter it reduces. When charge level is above 90% charging current is always lower than 100mA.

When phone is above 39 degrees C, charging current is limited to 160mA. When phone is above 45 degrees C, charging to the battery is cut off, current is only redirected to phone circuits (doesn't go through battery at all).

On USB (when USB is detected via cable) maximum charging current is limited to 350mA.
[One (M7) General] stevedebi:
I appreciate the info in the thread, and all who participated. I had previously read most of it while researching laptop tech and my former phones.

Here is my take:

HTC is perfectly aware of the characteristics of LiPoly batteries, and has programmed the phone and charging circuits for safety and longevity. One of the first complaints about the phone was that it does not charge rapidly, for example.

After what happened with those laptop batteries a couple of years ago, I think most manufacturers are being careful with charging and heat.
[One (M7) General] 9mmpistol:
Interesting thread.

So from what i have read here... my usual habits of driving long distance with my phone plugged into a car charger, using the phone for both bluetooth audio and Sat Nav will probably drastically reduce the effective lifespan of my battery?

In practice my car charger outputs 0.5A - 1A so the phone can charge at a similar rate to discharge.
[One (M7) General] c5satellite2:
Laptop batteries fail because of heat, not because they are plugged in. Most laptops generate a lot of heat and the batteries are usually located very close to the cpu and gpu. Again, charging is controlled by the charging circuit and shouldn't cause an issue. Heat is the electrolytes worst enemy. Phone won't even charge if the battery temp is out of range, you will just get a flashing amber led until it cools down.
[One (M7) General] Nippero:
I think the problem here is that people are still making the same incorrect assumption, that HTC has programmed charging to extend battery health, single use battery life, and charging time. Thus overcoming all weaknesses of lithium battery technology :p

Yes, HTC like all other companies stop batteries from deep discharging and over charging. But that isnt the only detriment to health.

Maybe, HTC has safeties for battery temperature, no one knows what kind of temperature limits are set. But again, that isnt the only detriment.

HTC has to program/build their batteries to satisfy the most people and look the best. That means, they want their batteries to last as long as possible.

After all, like many have said, people typically replace phones these days before 2 years are even up or right away at 2 years.

Also, best single use life = good reviews. Cause theres no way for reviewers to test long term battery life, and most people are unaware/dont care anyway.

Finally, having a battery with diminished capacity that cant be replaced = consumers are more likely to upgrade their phones.

Keeping a lithium battery charged at max (4.2-4.3v) will stress it out. Thats a fact, go google it.

Charged at max does not mean overcharged. I.e. the charging circuitry will gladly (trickle) charge your battery to 4.2-4.3v and keep it there.

I've seen no evidence that the phone stops charging at 100% and waits until 95% or whatever value to start again. HTC doesnt mention this either.

So personally, I will keep it in mind that I should plug in my battery before 30-50% and unplug after 80-90%.

Will your battery die a whole lot faster if you don't follow this rule? Nah... maybe... who knows. Everyone is different.

We all plan to keep our phones for different amounts of time, we use our phones differently, we have naturally different charging schedules, etc.

But to those who do care/worry/get OCD, I'm pretty confident following the guidelines will help your battery live longer in ways that HTC circuitry does not.
[One (M7) General] stevedebi:
Well, I don't have any links. But both this phone and my previous Amaze, and the HD2 before that, all exhibited this characteristic. If charged while on, the phone will say 100, but very quickly drop to less (depending on how long it has been "fully" charged and what is/isn't running on the phone). My Amaze, for example, checked email once per hour during the night while connected to the stock charger. It still said 100% when powered up, but went to about 95% within a few seconds of being disconnected from the mains. Since i generally go to bed about the same time and charge it the same length, it was quite consistent.

I have no experience or knowledge of how low it might go internally before it actually charges back up to 100% when plugged in and left on. I've read some stuff, but never tried any tests to confirm the characteristics.

That is why I charge mine while turned off. It goes to 100% on power up and stays there until it gradually uses the battery down. With my Amaze I could swap batteries and it wasn't important, but with the fixed battery in the One I want everything I can get in the morning.
[One (M7) General] Tinderbox (UK):
I use an app called BatteryBot, i can set an alarm to go off when charging and the capacity get`s to 80% so i can stop the charger, also i have it set to play an alarm when the capacity drops below 30%, you can also set alarms for battery temperature and health

You can set alarms to go off at any capacity the ones above are what i use, I have been using this app for a couple of years and find it great.

It`s a pity cell/mobile phones don't have battery saver setting`s like most notebook do, that stop the battery charging at 80% automatically.

John.
[One (M7) General] stevedebi:
Those laptop settings are (according to my Toshiba manual) intended for those situations where the laptop is plugged in most of the time.

A cell phone is almost never used this way, and people in general want the most battery possible.

Just my take on why nobody has implemented it yet...
[One (M7) General] Tinderbox (UK):
Well if you charge and discharge you battery fully every time, you will only get 300-500 charge cycles

If you only charge up to 80% and then discharge no lower than 30% you can get 1500-2000 charge cycles

I wish my HTC One had that feature.

John.

http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
[One (M7) General] stevedebi:
Well, it is too bad there are no apps for that. It probably isn't possible to get that far into the charging circuits via software.

I don't personally get below 45% most days, but I do charge to 100%.
[One (M7) General] Tinderbox (UK):
Every time you charge to 100% you cause a small amount of damage to your battery, their is a bit of conflicting evidence that discharging the battery too far does not cause as much damage as we though, a big study conducted by the US army if i remember, but i still don't go below 20%

Also temperature is an big enemy of the battery and can cause damage, we cannot win can we :(

John.
[One (M7) General] NxNW:
The consensus here seems to be HTC has adopted a new approach with the One, but historically most of their phones used the strategy described above, specifically:

If you left an older model of HTC phone plugged in indefinitely, it would charge to 100%, shut off the charging circuitry and let the phone run on battery power (even though it was physically plugged in) until it reached 90, turn on the charging again until it touched 100, turn off charging again, repeat ad infinitum. The graph of state-of-charge vs time was a very coarse sawtooth shape dwelling between 90 and 100.

The HTC Evo very certainly exhibited this behavior. It was one of the most common topics in the QA section of the forums. "Why does my phone suddenly go from 100 to 90 within minutes of removing it from the charger?" The phone shipped with a kernel that did not support "trickle charging": this was one of the most commonly requested features in custom kernels.
[One (M7) General] Nippero:
Meh, I still havent noticed the characteristic quick drop from 100% to 90-95% after an overnight charge. So I'm not sure about all that. Would be a nice feature though. But still, allowing a phone to bounce back and forth in the 90-100% charge range is still unhealthy.

These days, people use their cellphones and especially tablets like they used to use laptops and even desktops.

So hopefully companies catch up soon and give us some more advanced controls over charging.

It also might not have been a concern in the past since phone batteries were largely replaceable and fairly cheap (from third party sources anyway).

Thats my take on why it hasnt been done yet anyway.
[One (M7) General] sudkcoce:
My tip for best battery life: get a desktop dock and never worry about battery life again. Really, guys! ;)
[One (M7) General] stevedebi:
I suspect that what the phone indicates as 100% is not actually the full battery capacity. But I don't know that - it is just that HTC can also read battery university.
[One (M7) General] Tinderbox (UK):
You phones warranty we be expired before most people get to 500 full charges, so HTC will not have to pay for a repair/replacement anyway.

John.
[One (M7) General] Nippero:
You didn't even read the bolded sentence of the OP did you >.>
[One (M7) General] Magpir:
If u really want to take care of the battery

1) install a custom kernel like elemental x beastmode or bulletproof that tones down throttling and has good thermal values

2) do not ever leave this phone in your car under hot sun
[One (M7) General] tuzmaster_v2:
can this technique be used on every phone?? or just HTC one, i am using xperia T lt30p.

and this thread sounds 'cause i want to use this phone about 2-3 years
[One (M7) General] Tinderbox (UK):
I use Battery Bot Pro, you can set alarms for when battey levels are hit on charge or discharge.

https://play.google.com/store/apps/...XJzaGFuY29tcHV0aW5nLkJhdHRlcnlJbmRpY2F0b3IiXQ..

John
[One (M7) General] Nippero:
The tips I posted apply to any device using Lithium Ion batteries.
[One (M7) General] Matt:
However the One is Lithium Polymer, although they are pretty much the same
[One (M7) General] deadman3000:
In Europe on certain costly products there is a statute that ensures that premium products should last a reasonable amount of time even if the warranty only covers you for a year. If they complain take them to the small claims court.
[One (M7) General] Tinderbox (UK):
Just checked the warranty on my UK One M7 and it says 24 months, the same as other EU countries, but i dont know what the warranty is in the USA or other countries.

John.
[One (M7) General] shree.cse:
It was only for 12 months
[One (M7) General] exidler:
May be need the app, which will do stop charging battery, when 90% reached? And will not enable charging before level drop down to 60-70%?

Is any body need this one? (it possible to do with root)
[One (M7) General] Nippero:
I would love an app like this.
[One (M7) General] Tinderbox (UK):
Yeah, this phone needs a battery health option to stop charging at 80-90%
[One (M7) General] m0nz:
Yes, it can.

Agreed. There's gotta be a way to do it!
[One (M7) General] Tinderbox (UK):
I do this now, but i have to manual unplug the charger, i use the app batterybot to give me a 80% charged alarm and a 30% low battery alarm as well, it also has a battery temp alarm and a battery health alarm.

https://play.google.com/store/apps/...XJzaGFuY29tcHV0aW5nLkJhdHRlcnlJbmRpY2F0b3IiXQ..
[One (M7) General] Magpir:
This happens when u do short topups and recharges that don't reach 100% . In becomes in accurate if u don't fully recharge (led green) .

It's best to fully recharge till led green each time u plug in .
[One (M7) General] dvsk69:
Incorrect. Who gives you such info?
[One (M7) General] akkidy:
My charger has red led eyes when it's charging and when my phone reaches 100, it turns amber. I can only assume that either the charger or the phone knows when to stop giving our taking power.
[One (M7) General] Tinderbox (UK):
the charger just recognizes that the phone has stopped charging and changes the led`s from red to amber.

I have a usb charger that turns itself off totally once the phone is charged to save power supposedly :laugh:

John.
[One (M7) General] ihavoc:
Gizmodo just released this article on how to maintain your battery.

http://gizmodo.com/how-to-take-care-of-your-smartphone-battery-the-right-w-513217256
[One (M7) General] Magpir:
how is that charging to 100% is detrimental to the battery?

i thought the charge current gets lower and lower when it reaches to 100%?
[One (M7) General] m0nz:
Fwiw, I think our tips are better than gizmodos and I find that article annoying and lacking.

May I also add, you don't ever need to calibrate your battery. But heck, if it brings you peace of mind to know that its a few points off, go for it. The truth is, if its not calibrated, its not going to last any shorter or longer, it just may sit on 1% longer until its actually dead.
[One (M7) General] ataft:
The battery doesn't like being at full charge. If the battery has a voltage above 3.92, it stresses the battery slightly. The higher the phone is charged, the more stressful it becomes. 3.92 is the voltage of a 50% charged battery, and 4.20 is the voltage of a 100% charged battery. Best to keep the battery below 4.10 (90%).
[One (M7) General] Lidodido:
Just a quick thought:

Charging to 80% and then discharging to 30% means you can only use discharge the battery 50% before charging. If you can last an entire day on only 50% of your battery, that's great, but if you can't you need to charge it more often which means you'll lose more of them cycles.

And, if you can live with only using 50% of your battery thanks to access to chargers, than battery health is not that important.

Although I understand you don't mean this is stuff everyone should follow strictly. What I've read is that 40% is the best level to put it back into the charger, and then go to 100%. Perhaps 30% isn't that much worse, but going down to 10 is not good. Although you should go down to 0 once in a while to keep the battery going. Can't give any sources on that though, but I did lots of reading on this subject when I bought my last phone and that's what I found out.
[One (M7) General] Tinderbox (UK):
I suppose it depends if you can easily afford to get a new phone if the battery dies after the warranty runs out, if you can don't worry about the battery just charge anytime you want.

I cannot afford to buy a replacement, so if i have easy access to a charger, i only charge to 80% and recharge before i hit 30%, supposedly a charge to 100% and discharge till the phone turn off will keep the battery gauge calibrated, but only do this every couple of months as it`s not good for the battery.

John.
[One (M7) General] kosique:
I use a 35% start 90% stop threshold on my ThinkPad. Battery is still very good after 2 years... thus seems to je true to not charge until 100%.
[One (M7) General] BenPope:
Yeah, or maybe just charging it to 100% would also leave it very good. Can't tell from one data point.

This thread is just everybody arguing over arbitrary thresholds they heard from somebody who probably just made it up.

But everybody seems to be having fun...
[One (M7) General] Tinderbox (UK):
Have yourself a read my friend.

http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries

John
[One (M7) General] BenPope:
I have read that. It probably doesn't agree exactly with the myriad percentages people are saying on here.
[One (M7) General] ataft:
+1 to this.
[One (M7) General] kosique:
I formerly used to charge from 0 to 100% on my prior ThinkPad and the battery was gone after two years. So from my POV I can tell that either the 35%, the 90% or both together work. Nevertheless, I'm happy that my battery is still that good. No matter what people say is working best. The results I got with the new 'strategy' are definitely better...
[One (M7) General] Nippero:
Nice find. It seems to echo most of what was said in this thread. Mainly this part:

Along with never go to zero and dont sweat it too much. lol
[One (M7) General] pr0x2:
I Just want to enjoy my phone. If the battery is dead in two years I will get it replaced or just sell the phone.
[One (M7) General] tuzmaster_v2:
i'm sorry but this is a dumb question, discharging from 80% to 30% will be 1 cycle ???
[One (M7) General] BenPope:
No, a cycle requires charging, too :p

If you charged from 30% to 80% then discharged to 30%, that would be around half a cycle.
[One (M7) General] gartner83:
Thank you for the interesting post but my opinion is that I don't want to complicate my life for a year just to have a battery in good shape. And even if I have the battery in good shape after a year, I would still have to complicate my life for another year to have the battery in good shape after two years.

Here is my suggestion. Don't complicate your life over a battery for a year or maybe even more. Then maybe, maybe you will have to replace the battery and after that you are once again good for another year or even more.

So: (to complicate two or three years and don't replace your battery) OR (not to complicate for two or three years and replace the battery once) ?

Just my point of view, no disrespect to the author.
[One (M7) General] kosique:
What if you can not easily replace the battery? To me charging a little earlier and stopping between 80 and 90 percent is no hassle....