yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[One (M7) General] rovex:
I want to know why you are defending the One so aggressively, seriously this sort of blatant fanboyism only exists in the HTC sections on here I swear!

AC DO cover low light, if you dont see them you must be blind, which would explain it all frankly. The S4 if FAR from embarrassed. Anyway, this isnt just about the S4, its about almost every other recent phone as well, The Lumias, the Experias, even the iPhone easily beat the One in moderate to good light, and some are not far off in low light with HDR enabled.

I wouldnt mind if the One was taking comparable 'good light' images to other phones, but just lower MP, but it doesnt. It has more noise, chromatic aberrations, blur, contrast issues, exposure issues and brightness issues than any camera phone I have used in the last 7 years or so.

Talk around it all you like, HTC got it wrong and nothing you say will change that. The only thing that will change it is if HTC fix those problems, real problems that are problems with this phone.

You say the pictures i posted looked like I just 'randomly snapped a shot without any thought or intent'. YES THAT'S THE POINT, THAT'S WHAT CAMERA PHONES ARE FOR!!! They arent for planned shots, they are for candid shots, and guess what, the N10 beat the One, and that's just plain wrong. If you don't understand that then you need to leave this thread and stop embarrassing yourself.

The only explanation I can otherwise offer is that there are a large number of faulty units out there, and I mean a lot, because a lot of people are complaining about this camera. I am now on my third unit after having rejected 2 for poor build quality. The sad thing is they all gave me horrible pictures, so if it is due to faulty camera modules then HTC have a serious problem and the phone cannot be recommended until they sort it out.
[One (M7) General] Nippero:
There's a lot more than even sensor size and technology to take into account though.

An exposure is based on three things: aperture, shutter speed, and sensitivity (ISO)

Higher ISO allows for faster shutter speeds or smaller apertures (larger F/ number = smaller aperture).

But higher ISO also creates more noise.

To get the same exposure (i.e. to gather the same amount of light) with less noise, you do this by decreasing ISO. To decrease ISO you have to either increase shutter time or make the aperture bigger.

Increasing shutter time would create blur from shaky hands.

So we want a larger aperture, which the HTC One does have, it has a lens with f/2.0 aperture, which is pretty good.

Sensor size and technology affect how much noise is created at different ISO levels, among many many other things.

Also, if the lens is crap, you wont have much detail no matter how many megapixels you have.

My 12.8MP Canon 5D will out resolve any stupid point and shoot with ridiculous MP counts.
[One (M7) General] rovex:
I think you have hit the nail on the head here. HTC must be using a really poor lens, it explains a lot.
[One (M7) General] Nippero:
That could be the reason, but I'm not sure if it is or isnt.

I haven't really analyzed the pictures from this camera myself to be honest.

From a few experiences, to me it looks like the camera software is overly aggressive.

It has too strong of a preference for unnecessarily fast shutter speeds, which pushes ISO even higher and leaves us with a ton of noise in our pictures.

JPG compression also seems to be oddly strong... This is what I'm seeing with my daylight pictures. Perfectly bright, no noise, but everything seems.. blotchy. As if someone took the picture and used MS Paint to compress it. lol
[One (M7) General] Itaintrite:
You're totally missing my point. Saying that better hardware will give you better image quality is stating the obvious. OP said higher MP means more noise. That is absolutely true if all other factors remain constant. Why would you compare shots with different exposure?

Regarding the HTC One, it's the shoddy dynamic range that is its weakness, not aggressive NR (though this also irks me).
[One (M7) General] erik111111:
You are embarrasing yourself. There are plenty of good pictures out there with the HTC One. I linked to some very impressive shots, and you claim they suck. My challenge still stands, show me some of your photos taken with a phone that beat the links I posted.

I myself have taken many pictures with the phone and am actually blown away by how good the images are for a cell phone camera.

So who should be embarrassed? The one who can't take any but crap pictures with the One, who claims that past phones were better but at the same time that can't post examplesto rival results from the one?

Your type just ***** to ***** and blame your poor results on your equipment.
[One (M7) General] rovex:
Whatever the cause something IS ruining its pictures, and people need to accept that as fact rather than sticking their heads in the sand. I see VERY few on here that dont have problems. Some are ok, but there is no way to know how another phone would have done in the same situation if there is no comparison shot. I can only go by my own results, which have been really poor, whatever settings I have used. I have tried all the tricks and fixes as suggested in the main picture thread, nothing has worked.
[One (M7) General] Nippero:
Eh? I think you missed my point too then, or we're confusing each other lol.

I'm just stating how noise can be affected by MANY things. And I'm trying to show how it all connects.

Basically showing how wrong directly connecting MP to noise really is.

Also, for every pixel in the megapixels spec, there is actually a physical little photo-diode (I think thats what they're called?) on the physical sensor. Its not a software thing.

So from the beginning, we are talking about hardware.
[One (M7) General] rovex:
Maybe my phone is faulty, if so then all 3 of the Ones ive had have been in which case HTC have a problem. I have already said I have got a few good images, but they are the exception, not the rule.

I challenge you to suggest how i could have possibly made the images so bad on the 0ne, but not on the N10. What is it you think im doing?

Its pointless me posting images from my other phones for a number of reasons. Most have been cropped and edited for a start, and without a comparison shot from the One there is no way to know how they compare. As a scientist I understand the need for a control in any sampling or test, you clearly dont.
[One (M7) General] erik111111:
AC doesn't do low light shots as is generally understood. They do night shots and they do shots with dark/light high contrast areas. When I talk about low light shots, I am talking about shots such as in a dimly lit area where the one can shoot at close to 2000 iso at 1/17 second and get reasonable results. Is there noise? Sure. But still pleasing pictures. Compare those kind of shots with all these other phones you are talking about. You will get complete trash.
[One (M7) General] rovex:
Maybe so, but if thats the only thing the One can do, its hardly a selling point is it since how often do people take such images? Daylight shots are so hit and miss (and mostly miss if we are honest) that its just not fit for purpose.
[One (M7) General] erik111111:
They both were crap. How can I tell how you made crap with both? There are many ways.

It isn't pointless. Look, you said the picutres I linked in flickr were full of chroma noise and were grainy - basically trying to support that the camera is no good.. I am just asking you to post some examples that are from one of your prior phones that were so good that don't exhibit those issues. You are, by not posting any examples, admitting that you can't.
[One (M7) General] rovex:
Both those pictures are with auto modes, no changes to stock except -1 sharpness on the One, which is the recommended setting. The N10 wins, face it.

However Since you ask.. and these may not be unedited or uncompressed images, i recovered a lot of them from forums after a HD failure.

S2 auto mode.. No grain, very sharp, far more detail than any One picture ive seen.

Nokia N73 from 7 years ago.. Resized a bit so lost detail, but nonetheless, very low grain in the off focus areas and 'blotch' free, unlike every One picture ive attempted, or seen from others, of similar type.

Nokia N95 8GB from 6 years ago, again heavily compressed and resized so detail is compromised, but no blotches or grain, better colour balance, more dynamic range, no black crush.. again unlike the One.

Of course im sure you will hate them, you are prejudiced now, even a picture from the best cam in the world would be talked down by you at this point.
[One (M7) General] xxquicksh0txx:
So... HTC should come out with a 8 ultra pixel camera in their next phone...

Guys, you're not going to change the others opinion, you both have some valid points.

The camera is good, if you want it for social media and night shots and scenery. It lacks when you want to crop and detail when you zoom in.

Oh well.

Agree to disagree already?
[One (M7) General] erik111111:
None of those are as good as the linked shots, and none of the show any superiority to shots taken with an HTC One.
[One (M7) General] erik111111:
View attachment 2025439
[One (M7) General] djslyda87:
not a myth at all, more pixels mean higher resolution, what they (or the htc camera) have done here is use multiple photos and stitched them together. Each of them photos will be 4 megapixel..... so if it uses 4 photos for the panorama then essentially that photo now has 16 megapixels. No revelation here.
[One (M7) General] rovex:
Erik, you are such a Troll ..

Those pictures are either, dark images or macros, all the one seems to be able to do. Not only that but they all have problems anyway. The food one especially had very poor dynamic range. And the landscape has no detail.

You need to try much much harder than that lol..
[One (M7) General] GSeeker:
How can you guys find that tiny picture in that article is AWESOME??

Really??:confused:
[One (M7) General] Mafiatounes:
I hope the next One will have a 6.7 ultrapixel sensor or higher, not because i like specs but it would make details a little bit sharper, without sacraficing the ability to have noiseless pictures. Also variable aperture would be awesome for day/night shots.

Either way i am happy for now, it takes good pictures because i use it when going out in the evening/night or inside more that is where the One excells.

Sent From The One
[One (M7) General] sallam5010:
Seriously that topic goin out of it's track so please mods close these topics that we are done with !

We all have the one and we all know if it takes good or bad pix we don't need any skilled or unskilled ppl to give their opinion bout the Ones camera is bad or good !

For the God sake go find something useful to do !
[One (M7) General] erik111111:
You are such a loser it is amazing to me. You post crap pictures and claim they are better than good ones. It is obvious to everyone but you.
[One (M7) General] rovex:
Rather than trolling, why not tell me why they are crap as I have done throughout?! The last 2 are very compressed and resized as I already said, but be my guest to find why the first is inferior. Compare to a picture from the one, in the same conditions, of similar things, dont use yet another boring macro which proves absolutely nothing.

If you think you can get as much detail in the background with the One you are delusional. In fact I'm going to replicate that picture using my One later to prove the point.

Sent from the One using Tapatalk 2
[One (M7) General] erik111111:
The pictures that you have posted just don't represent anything that can't be done on the one and just aren't of any interest frankly. I have posted some of my own, and I think they show well that the camera is quite capable. I have also linked to some fabulous shots on Flickr that you, being you, refuse to acknowledge are fantastic.

You aren't convincing anyone that that camera isn't good, in this thread or in the others that I have seen you bleat the same thing over and over.

I am just tired of reading all your negativity about this device. It isn't a DSLR, or even a mid range point and shoot camera. But it is quite good for a phone when you consider all it's capabilities. As I said long ago in this thread, it obviously isn't going to beat a 13mp camera if you want to do significant cropping and the wide angle lens is going to mean objects are smaller in the frame so if you want to get close up to distant objects, then it isn't the best tool for that purpose.

And pixel peeping is not that interesting and is not relevant to me. If a picture looks good at full screen, I don't care if I could zoom in further and see artifact and noise. I enjoy photography and looking at pictures, not tying to find flaws in otherwise pleasing photos.

I took this one today just for you because it isn't a close up or a dark shot that you seem to wish to disqualify. Go ahead and say that your 5 year old cell phone took better, but everyone else seeing this thread realizes that the camera is good in these type of shots, but blows away every other android or IOS phone in low light.
[One (M7) General] rovex:
Oh please, that picture has absolutely no sharpness whatsoever, even in the childs face, its all smeary and blotchy, its junk for a 2013 high end phone! All the lines on the building are aliased to hell, and the entire scene is riddled with JPEG artifacts. At least try, I mean really.. What is your monitor a 15 inch 1024x768 CRT from 1995? Even the compressed and cropped Nokia pictures I posted are sharper than that, and they have been through a lot over the years! Shall I do even a very slightly zoomed comparison? Need I bother?

Stop making excuses, we both made our choice in this phone, at least im realistic about its capabilities. I did actually duplicate the S2 photo i posted with the One, but it was so horrible im actually not going to post it, and try again tomorrow to see if i can get a better one. Like your picture it was horrible, a lot worse actually. It had horrible OIS blur, even though the phone was rock solidly stable at the time!

If you think you have posted a shot as sharp as that S2 shot, both in the foreground or background then you need to think again, because you really haven't. Not even close, even a macro. Take the macro of the watch, on a 24 inch monitor you can see the blotches on the bezel. My S2 shot doesn't have them and the reflections, the wheels, even the ground are pin sharp. Frankly I don't even need to zoom on most of them, its obvious already.

Funnily enough it was other people that convinced me it was bad. You only have to go through the main picture thread to find many many people who are unhappy with this camera, its not just me. If you frequent android fan sites you will find many more as well.

I agree that many pictures do look pretty good when view as a whole. Some of the macro and other close to medium distance shots are stunning when viewed that way, however I have yet to see one single medium to long distance shot that is acceptable, not one single shot. Im not comparing to a DSLR, im comparing to other phones, 2010 models and newer. It just sucks for that usage. Its so bad that I wont be buying another HTC again until there are a LOT more reviews than I went on this time.
[One (M7) General] erik111111:
ok that was HDR because it was broad daylight so maybe that made it soft. This one is from the other day and is regular shot, are you telling me this is not adequate?

And I don't hardly think you can compare a macro of a watch - that was run through enhancement with a wheel of a car from several feet away.
[One (M7) General] townay:
Sure ok. Looks like you've made your decision and nothing is going to move you. But at least one thing is for sure, despite it's shortcomings, reviewers have been praising the ultrapixel camera, more so than slamming it.
[One (M7) General] rovex:
No in fact the watch should be sharper, not less sharp, but anyway..

Thats a much better picture, the lady is much more in focus, however her feet are not, the trees are also very very soft and the building isnt sharp either. Its still a poor 4MP shot although it is better.

---------- Post added at 11:01 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:51 PM ----------

Some have been, due to its low light abilities, which I agree are probably the best of any phone, but frankly phone review sites don't necessarily know what they are looking for anyway. Its pretty obvious they have no more idea what constitutes a good picture than any random person off the street.

Pretty much all of them use set up scenes, which just isn't what camera phones are used for. Even HTC admit that, the Ones camera is designed, apparently, for random, unplanned shots, however in catering for low light random shots they completely messed up daylight ones.

My point in all this is that while it is good in low light, its terrible in good light. Its not even an average camera in good light, its very poor and is frankly worse than 6 year old phones with similar resolutions. Its not a case of it being better than an S4 in the low light and as good in the day, its a case of being better than the S4 in low light and far far worse in the day.
[One (M7) General] erik111111:
Really? You consider that another example of how the One is just not up to the competition? You expect better performance than that from phone cameras?

You keep calling me a troll but it is clear that you either are a troll or you have for some reason convinced yourself that because you can't take any good pictures, then it must be your camera that is the reason.
[One (M7) General] rovex:
Yes because the S2 shot of the car is FAR FAR better. If you can't see that you really need a new monitor. I assume you are actually looking at it full size?

Everything in that shot is in focus, the only softness is in the trees due to the resolutions limitation at that distance. Can you not see that the womans feet are out of focus in your picture? Can you not see the softness in the building? Really?
[One (M7) General] erik111111:
I don't think you can judge a picture by whether there is softness in the trees or building because it is out of the depth of field. I don't know why the feet are a bit out of focus, but that isn't critical
[One (M7) General] rovex:
Now those really are excuses! The One has poor depth of field, its inferior to pretty much any other phone camera in the same class. Im glad you finally see it.

The focus isnt critical? Well maybe not to you, but it is to me. Its also clear proof that its inferior to the S2, however you spin it.. its a worse camera for anything but low light. I admit the S2 sucks at low light, but its not a good compromise in my opinion to completely ruin daylight shots for night shots.

If you can provide a picture that even comes close to the S2 picture (which is one of MANY that I have) then there is no point continuing this. Ive proved my point, its just up to you whether or not you care.
[One (M7) General] erik111111:
Actually, you kind of proved my point in that you or anyone else can not reliably judge a camera's capabilities by looking at compressed images on the web.

You can certainly criticize a particular aspect of a particular image, but you can't say because you have a picture of a car that is sharp and another picture of a building that isn't sharp, then the camera that took the picture of the car is superior.

The second image of the lady with the building was taken with a DSLR. It may not be the best example, but it had features in the shot that I knew you would attack as indicating the camera was not good. The camera that took that photo and the lens is far and away better than any phone camera ever made.

However, you, in your infinite wisdom just deemed it inferior to an S2 camera and unsuitable for use.

All the pictures I have posted (all from the HTC One except the one that trapped you) show that the HTC One camera is quite capable and takes good pictures.

You have proven that you only wish to attack the HTC One camera.
[One (M7) General] rovex:
LOL oh dear, you think that proves anything? Whatever took that shot, its a crap shot and yes DSLR or not its worse than the S2 shot.. If you wanted to trap me you should have tried by posting an excellent DSLR shot as a One shot, not a totally crap one.

Whoever took it should be ashamed of themselves, or should go and buy a new camera.
[One (M7) General] erik111111:
I think it proves quite well that you don't know what you are talking about.
[One (M7) General] rovex:
HOW? seriously.. how? You post a shot that looks poor and has the same poor features as the One shots and think that somehow proves your point? How exactly does it do that? I await your reasoning... Its a crappy fake One picture that looks like a real crappy One picture. :rolleyes:

I suspect that if I had said it was a great shot you wouldn't have admitted it was a DSLR shot at all, and that makes you a liar and untrustworthy, so actually, don't bother any more im no longer interested in you or your flawed opinions. Im tempted to report you for trolling the forum.

Unsubscribed...
[One (M7) General] fde2blk22:
Guys, I just finished reading the back and forth...it was fun. But now I have a more serious problem
[One (M7) General] nugzo:
Rovex owns the phone and is actively taking pictures with it. There are many different ways and scenarios for taking pictures. If he says the pictures he is taking are bad compared to other camera phones, they probably are.. for his scenario. He's not a fanboy, he owns the one and wants a good camera experience. His priorities when taking pictures are different than others obviously.. Doesnt mean he's making **** up or trying to talk **** about the One, he's making a statement with the evidence he has. Maybe his phone is defective, maybe not. Either way no need to be so hateful and rude towards his opinion.
[One (M7) General] mettleh3d:
Don't know what you want rovex other than beg for someone to see eye to eye with you on the One forums. Please move on.
[One (M7) General] BTow1105:
How could you capture the action at a sporting event with any phone if you don't have great seats? It's not like you can really zoom on a phone camera...
[One (M7) General] For_itembine:
all top end phone cameras are very similar, there is not much between them. if you want a good point and shoot, buy a sony rx100
[One (M7) General] idlewei:
Awesome shot!:good:
[One (M7) General] rovex:
Well now the troll is gone id like to say ive had a lot of support via PM, it seems im not the only one who thinks this camera has issues, but many people are frightened to complain because certain members are shouting them down by dismissing them as complainers who cant use a camera, or worse, paid Samsung trolls. :silly:

The problems with this camera are many fold, but the causes seem to be these:

Bad software. Far to much compression and a poor algorithm, to much sharpening, flaky OIS, no flash to focus, inconsistent auto-focus. Whatever processing the camera app is doing its very heavy and excessive. HDR for example is great for night shots, but is probably the worst I have ever seen on any device for daylight use. What it does to a blue clear sky is shocking.

Other camera apps sometimes help a bit, but are often much slower than the HTC app and seem to have issues with night shots. It seems to me that a lot of the Ones night time abilities are actually post processing effects.

Poor hardware. The lens is just cheap. Nokia realised the value of a good lens a long time ago, which is why the N series destroyed the competition. The jury is still out on the quality of the actual sensor, it doesn't seem especially capable right now though.

Distance shots on the N series didnt exhibit anything like the 'lumpy' blotchy look the One gives us, even with lower MP counts. Dont believe me? Go look for reviews and see for yourselves. Aliasing is a real problem on the One, 4MP is not enough on a camera of this quality, especially on a wider angle lens. I applaud the idea of this camera, but the execution is poor. HTC need to rethink its software, drastically, it needs more mega pixels and it needs to use a good quality lens.