yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Xperia Z General] drsoran2:
Please look at my pictures, especially on the left side where the camera is. It looks and feels slightly lifted and almost flush with the rim compared to the right side. The right side seems okay but I'm not sure. Also, I don't know if it is normal what you can see on the left side.

Do you think it's bad or still good? Should I be worried? Device was never in water so far. Is it still waterproof?!

I'm using the device since late April and also have the 4.2.2. update since about 3 weeks which reduced temperatures. Do you think this update will prevent (further) lifting now and in the future, meaning it won't get worse, also considering temperatures of 30 degrees outside and using in the sun, gaming etc.??

1st picture: upper left corner near camera

2nd picture: upper right corner

3rd picture: upper left corner side view

4th picture: upper right corner side view
[Xperia Z General] vibecatalin:
I see no problem there
[Xperia Z General] douglam:
Doesn't look too bad FOR NOW, but I'm sure if it starts (even slightly), it will get worse over time.
[Xperia Z General] drsoran2:
so you're saying it hasn't started until now? Could the new, cooler running 4.2.2. update prevent it from lifting in the future? My CPU reaches up to 74° (CPU temperature, not battery temperature, measured with "System tuner pro") but I don't know if that is high or bad or if it was higher with the 4.1.2 firmware?!
[Xperia Z General] gm007:
Yes 74 degree is very high.
[Xperia Z General] douglam:
I'm saying that based on your photos, there is a very slight lift. By default, the glass panel should sit slightly below the rim. If you see it's flushed, that means is has started to lift. And once it has started to lift, it will just continue to lift even more as time goes by.

I do not think the firmware can do much. It's just a bad design and a bad selection of adhesive used to glue the panel.
[Xperia Z General] drsoran2:
I hope this issue is covered under warranty since it is clearly a manufacturing defect when the glue melts under the phone's own heat.

If the back panel becomes loose and water might get in there, although the flaps are closed, what will happen to the warranty? It's definetely not my fault then, or is it?

Can Sony deduct if the water entered through the faulty back or because the flaps were not closed or broken?

Lastly, I've never opened the micro sd, micro sim flap after I initially put in the card and sim. I also never open the headphone flap since I use bluetooth. I only rarely open the micro usb flap when flashing a firmware (it was opened maybe 10 times so far). Is this good and should help prevent leakage or tear on the flaps in the future and thus make it safer when used in water compared to flaps which are openend on a regular basis?
[Xperia Z General] douglam:
Well. What we think is one thing. But whether Sony admits it's a design fault is another thing. Whether they want to honor the warranty or not is on a case by case basis. Even if the indicators are white and water seeps in through the glass panel, they might claim there is physical abuse that caused the panel to split open. So it depends on one's luck.

You are right that the flaps are the next weak points. Over time, the tiny o- rings on the flaps will deteriorate and eventually will start to leak.
[Xperia Z General] :
You need one of this...

Got it from work just asked for one. :D benefits to being promoted few days ago.... To Lvl3 tech
[Xperia Z General] TamSE3P:
Can you describe the material? Is it a double-sided adhesive with foam in the middle? Is it just plain "tape"? Or if it's more like a thin "gasket" film? I'd like to know more about that adhesive.
[Xperia Z General] dubist:
Is this adhesive the Same that we can buy on eBay?

Difficoult to bring on and how is IT with water resistent?
[Xperia Z General] douglam:
Congrats on your promotion.

But do you know if the seal an improved version or just the same replacement? If it's the same, the problem will come back.
[Xperia Z General] :
Thanks.

Its improved . not as spongy as the first. looks the back-panel sits a bit deeper.if your phone fails water test, because of that you covered by warranty. off to work.
[Xperia Z General] douglam:
Thanks. Good to know that they have improved the seal. Now the tough part is to get them to change mine just because the panel has lifted. I'm sure mine will pass the water test for now, but I'm sure it'll fail one day without me knowing it.

By the way, what water test do they usually do? Just submerge and see?
[Xperia Z General] alexpraga:
Hi, thanks for sharing.

Have you replaced it yourself? Can you describe the process? Some photos maybe?

Can you get us a reference so we can be sure that we are ordering the right one?

Thanks again.

Sent from my Xperia Z
[Xperia Z General] :
I did it once, You start from the top, where the camera are. WHAT you NEED!!! CAREFUL I;AM NOT RESPONSIBLE IF YOU BRAKE ANYTHING!!!

1 Hair dryer or a hot plate set to 60c leave the phone on for 2min to weaken the glue.

2 finger cup lifter cup (glass sucker cup) whatever you call it , stick it on under the camera and pull it gently.

3 triangular shape pry tool no more than 0.5 mm thick start from top of the camera the glue gasket is week there gently pry around the phone and done. clean with IPA all the residue from the backpanel and the device itself.

4 fit the new gasket to the back push it down properly when you assemble the phone you need to apply 8kg/ cm2 pressure equally on both side, for 30sec that's what sony say...

i used heat-gun to warm up the gasket... but personally builders weatherproof silicone in more appealing to me.
[Xperia Z General] alexpraga:
Thanks again!

Does the gasket fits first to the back plate, and then both to the phone?

I didn't understand the reference to "builders weatherproof silicone" as an alternative to warm up the gasket. Could you please explain?

Sent from my Xperia Z
[Xperia Z General] :
Apply the gasket to the backpanel first, than place the back onto the phone and apply the pressure. It will fit, but the pressure is a problematic as not sure everybody can apply it equally without cracking the front or the back.... that's why the silicone would be a better alternative.
[Xperia Z General] alexpraga:
Ok! But with silicone, that's a lot of opportunity to make a mess out of it, isn't it? Additionally, to remove the back plate in the future would be nearly impossible (which maybe is not so bad!).

I have these plastic spring clamps that might do the work of applying the necessary pressure. Is heating any good for the gluing part?

Sent from my Xperia Z
[Xperia Z General] :
I did my... Just an hour ago or so...

Sorry for the quality of the pics, had only my gf's desire-c to take pics... Lost two of them in the past month Lol .she don't want any better.

Sent from my C6603
[Xperia Z General] :
You could use the clamps then , heat it with a hair dryer.... gets better result.

BTW. i removed the camera sponge, and lowered the nfc springs a bit according to sony . "If they too stiff they could get the back pushed out." I don't have any tech doc to prove it because we learn it on the training, (the company provide) than we do it in the workshop wen repairing a unit.
[Xperia Z General] douglam:
Thanks. The nfc contact springs explain why the lift is always on the corner with the camera and the power button.

From the pictures that donottouch posted, the contacts are above the power button. The contacts will always exert pressure on the glass panel, pushing it outwards, while the semi permanent adhesive seal is trying to keep them together. Great design isn't it?
[Xperia Z General] alexpraga:
Exactly that! The phone heats up, the springs push and that's just a matter of time.

Sent from my Xperia Z
[Xperia Z General] drsoran2:
If the nfc springs are continously pushing the back plate outwards and the glue is trying to hold it down, then it is clearly a design flaw. I mean, how could they have overlooked this?!

Also, as another forum member mentioned, there is a new and improved gasket/glue combination which is supposed to eliminate the problem.

So, if everything is perfect as it is right now (because Sony never said a word about this flaw) then why develop a new solution?! With this new gasket, they somehow admit that there is something wrong.

Which brings me to the next point: If I bring my rooted, but locked bootloader (never unlocked!), running stock firmware Xperia Z to a service center and demand a change to the new improved gasket as a precaution against future lifting, would they honor it or just wait until the current back plate fails and then repair it under warranty?!

One more point: We all know, that the back plate can lift...but is there a certain temperature and if the device is kept below that temperature all the time, would that stop the lifting?

I'm thinking about something software wise that would prevent it. Now I don't have a custom kernel and therefore can't lower the cpu voltages to reach lower temperatures (don't want to unlock the bootloader because of warranty!) but I have root and can use "Set cpu".

I'm thinking about something like a system wide, always active "do not lift" Set CPU profile! In this profile, the maximum cpu frequency would be restricted to a certain value which is safe and keeps the device temperature below a certain "safe temperature" which then prevents the glass back from lifting.

Is there such a frequency or temperature? Would love to find out. Maybe it's 1 Ghz or something?! and 65°?

The best would be, if the problem could be fixed by an exchange, but for now a software solution could be helpful. It is sad that I would have to lower my devices performance in order to prevent the lifting, but better than a broken handset because water entered inside!
[Xperia Z General] kkd28:
you can backup the DRM keys. that means you can relock with BE and warranty. hopefully:)
[Xperia Z General] drsoran2:
that wouldn't work because Sony still knows that it was unlocked because you need to put in your IMEI on their website when you want to unlock the bootloader!
[Xperia Z General] kkd28:
wow, good to know. have you tried? i saw in the backup ta thread saying that the warranty could be retained.:rolleyes:
[Xperia Z General] douglam:
I'm sure you are right. Sony has realized there is a design flaw and that is why they have changed the adhesive seal. But only time will tell whether the new seal will hold up better.

I think we should try sending in for warranty work than trying to accept an inferior product. Don't forget this is a flagship product. I'm sure if you permanently leave the phone off in the drawer unused, it'll never lift. Lol :)
[Xperia Z General] alexpraga:
My problem with that is waiting for 1 or 2 months to get the phone back from warranty service.

Sent from my Xperia Z
[Xperia Z General] :
Exactly that's why i can consider myself lucky... Able to repair my own device with warranty still on.

No problem with my the new adhesive hold it well even i let 3dmark run for 3 hours :p and before you ask, that was a pain.:silly::eek::silly: on the charging dock

To easy to recognize the two type of adhesive. The 1st is feels spongy if you buy it from online, ask before commit. the corrected one feels solid like a rubber gasket. Is actually a heavy sticky rubber type material not a spongy thing with double sided tape on both side.

Vhen you lower the NFC springs, hold your phone to eye level looking through the edges of the back. You could see the contacts THAT'S TOO STIFF . cut a peace of cardboard or plastic to the size of the back fits into the gap where the back sits normally and place it next to them. now start pushing them down gently until they just touch the measuring tool. CAREFUL DON'T BRAKE THEM.

Cannot explain it better, i used to do it. just be careful not to down but too high. Best to try the back on , without the gasket and see how the pressure pushing it out. If NFC works good if not pull a bit...

And make sure that you not leaving fingerprints inside of the phone use glows preferably ESD one and ESD strap.
[Xperia Z General] douglam:
Good to know the new material seems to work... Well, still too early to tell. Anyway, thanks for sharing.

I think we would like to know if Sony has given any official work instruction to accept warranty work for the lifting problem and have the seals replaced? This would make the warranty claim process smoother.

By the way, do you know when did Sony changed to the new seal? Maybe the newer batch of phones already have the new seal?
[Xperia Z General] drsoran2:
I would also like to know if there is a certain CPU temperature or frequency to keep the phone below in order to avoid the lifting? Something like a safe temperature?!

Is there a rule or measurement to tell how far lifted is still okay and waterproof or might already give trouble?

I mean, does it have to be slightly below the rim to be safe or can it be flush or something? Mine is on all sides slightly below the rim, except on the left side from around the middle (power button) up to the left corner were it is only very slightly below the rim, maybe even flush with it.
[Xperia Z General] :
Will check it out.
[Xperia Z General] douglam:
I don't think you can avoid the lifting as long as you use your phone. I do not play any games at all and mine is lifted.

By default, everything sits below the rim. If it is not, it means it has lifted. Once it's lifted, the waterproofing is definitely compromised because a gap is created below the panel. When there's a gap, there is always a chance that water might seep in.
[Xperia Z General] drsoran2:
It is so sad that a flagship device and its most exclusive feature, the waterproofness, is now being affected by a construction defect! A very strong factor for me in buying the XZ over any other top of the line smartphone and also over the Xperia ZL was the waterproofness. In fact, I was close to buying the ZL (because of the smaller size) but then got the XZ because of the waterproofness and I didn't want to worry ever again about water defects like with my previous phones.

But now, since reading about the back plate, the days without worries in the rain are gone. Now I think: "The phone should be waterproof and maybe it still is, but I'm not so sure anymore and therefore I better keep it away from water!" this way, the main advantage of the phone is gone. It's now like an Galaxy S3 or 4 :(

I also don't want to send it to a service center and wait for weeks. This is simply not acceptable. I'd rather call a service center somewhere, make an appointment and then go there and wait for it to be serviced. Shouldn't take that long, should it? This would restore my peace of mind and made me actually use to phone again for its true purpose.

Right now, I'm checking the back plate of my phone everyday and trying to see if it has lifted more or not.

Do you think that Sony may eventually officially acknowledge the problem and recommened a free repair or will they just silently repair everyone's phone when the bring them in to service as a precaution?!
[Xperia Z General] :
Don't think so.... It's really a shame. I also repairing HTC one x family at work and by my experience how many main board we changed it should be recalled months ago.

Sent from my C6603
[Xperia Z General] Calvat:
I'm no tech expert but can you remove the NFC springs or anything of the sort if you don't use NFC?
[Xperia Z General] drsoran2:
why would anyone fiddle with their phone on one's own and remove a feature of it just to reduce a defect which should be covered by warranty?!

Is it normal that on my phone, for instance, small particles of dust and the likes can get between the edge of the front and back and the rims and remain there? This happens on both sides. I mean, it's supposed to be almost dust proof so how can it be possible for these things to fall in there?

I suspect that after uninstalling "System tuner pro" to measure the CPU temperature has decreased, but I can't verify that because the app is gone now. Is there any other app I could use to monitor CPU temperature without affecting the temperature itself?

Is the battery temperature also a good indicator for overheating or just CPU temp?

Nothing can be done via software tweaks to keep the lifting under control?

I guess spraying small amounts of waterproof silicone or builder's foam between the back/front plates and the rim or inside the gaps (to make it more waterproof and safe again) is not a good idea as this would be tinkering with the phone and void the warranty?
[Xperia Z General] :
Because Sony takes its time. I know, we even have phones from february in the workshop.

Waiting for parts.

Because there is a gap to help technicians to take it apart.

Dont know, never tried. Not tested mine. Is cool.

If battery overheats is faulty. It does not mean that your mb is faulty. Most of cases is correct answer.

Not really, unless you turn it off. Sorry.

I filled mine with weather proof industrial grade silicone, you always can say that your pocket is dusty and you did not liked your tissue fluff there... Play stupid, or find something funny... But in cause make it removable. You just want to seal it.I stuffed my.....

Sent from my C6603
[Xperia Z General] drsoran2:
[MENTION=1191647]donottouch[/MENTION]

"I filled mine with weather proof industrial grade silicone, you always can say that your pocket is dusty and you did not liked your tissue fluff there... Play stupid, or find something funny... But in cause make it removable. You just want to seal it.I stuffed my....."

So I've been searching for something like you have used but can't find it. Could you provide a link or picture of it so that I can get a better idea? Also, is it a gel, oil, silicone, foam a spray or nano stuff? Is it transparent or does it smell? Did you spray it on the edges and rims of the whole device, back and front, especially where it lifts? Is it visible and looks big after applying or unchanged and most importantly, does it work and keep it waterproof?

Would Sony, if there is a warranty repair accept it, when I tried to "seal" my handset and make it waterproof on my own?

Could you show us a picture of how your phone looks after applying the silicone?
[Xperia Z General] Phantom3D:
My back also came off last weekend. I used it in the sun, and the glue gave up.

Hopeless.
[Xperia Z General] drsoran2:
you mean completly or lifted? What's next? Warranty?
[Xperia Z General] Phantom3D:
Lifted, but very noticable. I guess I can get a fingernail under it and tear it up. I bought a Note 2 4G. Got tired of the problems i had. (Reboots, freezes ++)
[Xperia Z General] siezer:
I have the same problem on the same area, upper left near the camera.
[Xperia Z General] xHoche96x:
When isn't it anymore waterproof? My glass is a little bit higher left then right. But it's still under the border. Is that bad? Or maybe normal a little bit?
[Xperia Z General] alexpraga:
If everybody is starting to have a lifted corner, that will be the new normal, statistically speaking!

Hello Sony! Do you want to participate in this discussion or xda is not representative enough? I cannot believe that the company is ignoring this trend.

Sent from my Xperia Z
[Xperia Z General] drsoran2:
This is an interesting idea. I'm sure some people from Sony are occasionally reading at least parts of this forum. The reason why I believe that this is the case is, there were complaints about certain things and feature requests from time to time, like the bad viewing angles and the bland colors and other stuff. Then, in subsequent updates, many of the things which people talked about here were fixed. It was almost like an unofficial wish list to Sony devs.

The more people and the louder they complained, the more likely it was for Sony to address the issues in an update...or someone told them directly and they listened...or Sony noticed these things on their own. However, I believe the first is true.

So, we NEED to take this issue to Sony directly! But what is the best way?

Get it to the right people who are in charge, who can change something or at least issue an official statement. Get them to read this thread and respond. We have to figure out how to let them know about this and get things rolling!

On a side note, the Xperia ZR is also waterproof and even rated ip58 which is a step above Xperia Z, but does it suffer from the same back plate lifting problem or not?!! And would this affect the waterproofness if so? Would be interesting to know.

Maybe even other current Sony handsets have the same problem, but since they are not meant to be waterproof and people would not normally take them into water, this issue may not arise and thus won't be noticed.
[Xperia Z General] leroy1703:
My phone also has a lifted back panel as a result of some gaming I did on the phone.

I send a mail to Sony explaining the issue and referring to this thread a couple of days ago. I'm still waiting for an answer though
[Xperia Z General] :
The next will be if i where you,

Go in the nearest service center and demand to fix the problem, or provide you an exchange. Ask directly for the duty manager (be calm) explain the problem and the features of the phone and why you bought it (because you have enough of protecting your phone from tiny rain) example, and how this will defect the IP57 water proof feature. Be calm and force the issue, point to the thread if possible.

Try not to leave without you see that she / he, raise a ticket to solve your issue. I did a few times with dell it worked.

If they refuse with a stupid answer because your device is from "xyz service provider", and need to contact them. They cannot force you to take a different device, you don't like or want. Go to your provider and try explaining you will cancel your contract because of that, because you don't want a faulty device replaced with another faulty device. ""Believe me you don't want a repaired faulty device instead of your brand new faulty device."" You don't like the others they offering explain that you choose this device for a specific reason. Either way don't leave without opening a ticket....

I did it with o2 last year with a faulty One X after 2 repair and 1 replacement. I paid off my current bill handed over the device. (they where really thorough, tried to talk my down with BS when i asked for a manager he counted every scratches i haven't got) but on the end i walked away with a certificate, that proofed my contract terminated due technical issue after 4 months.

Remember always keep calm, don't use crap language is not helping. If you can check trading law.
[Xperia Z General] alexpraga:
I visited a store this afternoon where there's a trial model of xperia z on a stand, maybe for several months already, and the top left corner on the back is lifted, as well.

Sent from my Xperia Z
[Xperia Z General] Don MC:
The best PR move Sony could do now is handing out refurbished phones to customers with lifted back panels. No questions asked.

Customer comes in. Employee checks back glass indeed has lifted. Employee exchanges curstomer's phone for a refurbished one. Customer is happy and hasn't been without their phone for the time it usually takes to repair them.

My back panel hasn't lifted (yet), but I'm very paranoid and constantly checking the back panel. Phone manufacture date: Week 9, 2013 (it says so on the bottom end of the phone: "13W09"), if that's of any importance.