yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Windows Phone 8 General] wazmo:
What really floored me from day one with WP7 when I had a Dell Venue Pro paired to my auto's Bluetooth stack was when an SMS came in, it woke up the car's Bluetooth connection, and read me the header of the SMS and asked me if I wanted to read it or ignore it. In the case where I wanted to reply back to the person's SMS, it dutifully recorded my response, transcribed it into an outbound SMS , and sent it. Five minutes later, I got another SMS back from the person I was corresponding with. It only recently that such functionality was delivered in andriod, either by Samsung's S-Voice or by a third party app.

Now before WP, WM's Voice Commander app would announce through Bluetooth who was calling you. Sadly, that's missing in the current iteration of WP except through its speakerphone.

Seems to me that when it comes to phone functionality, everybody has been paying more attention to the apps and less to the usability. To think that a SPV C-500/Audiovox SMT 5600 is more phone-feature capable than the current crop of WP8 devices ought to be an embarrassment.
[Windows Phone 8 General] GoodDayToDie:
Yeah... I'd really like to see some improvement on that front too. We used to joke about iPhones being a phone so powerful it could do everything but make a phone call... well, WP8 isn't that bad (although some WP7 devices had serious issues with Bluetooth headsets and call volume) but it really does need work. Things like the lack of per-user SMS tones gets brought up a lot, but frankly I just really want to see the ability to set the ringer (and possibly alarm) volume independently of the everything-else volume (music, games, etc.). Of course, then I'd want to have a way for it to remember the headset volume profile as distinct from the normal volume profile (already a problem when taking calls, which I leave at 10/10 normally but have to turn down to 5 on my in-ear headset). Technologically, these aren't very advanced issues. The biggest problem is probably presenting the UI for it, but I'm sure MS can manage...

Unfortunately, that kind of thing is hard for homebrew to help with. Partially because it's "Here There Be Dragons" territory with the APIs, partially because it requires pulling off tricks (like having a monitoring process that continuously checks for various states) that the third-party APIs are expressly designed to prevent, and partially because you have to be *really* careful around such apps; at best they will merely increase battery drain by a small amount, but at worst they'll make it impossible for you to answer calls or some such badness.
[Windows Phone 8 General] AndyFZ1S:
I think one of the main reasons the forums are so quiet is purely because the average user is happy enough to accept what they have and appreciate for what it is,

If people had problems/questions then the forums would be busier.

Surely this is a good thing?

Ok so not everyone is happy and yes WP could do with some tweaks and additional improvements but from my perspective things are on the up and will get better,

As for the Dev point of view MS has made things more difficult and by the time hacks are found the OS would have moved on, Damn shame really as we all love to tinker :crying:
[Windows Phone 8 General] efektos:
So basically - after briefly reading the thread - what some of you want is to reduce WP to some sort of an Android/WP mish-mash...? What would be the purpose of theming in WP? Or a file manager? Control permissions and install applications on SD Card? Are you THAT eager to start making viruses and spyware to WP? Has Android already became filled to the brim with those, so there's no more place for new ones? Give me a break. I suppose that in one point or another someone would find a way to get past Nokia and MS walls of defense - but until then, please leave this excellent OS time to rest before people start messing with it beyond recognition, hopefully not making it the puddle of mud Android is now...
[Windows Phone 8 General] IzaacJ:
Seriously, to jailbreak the WP8 OS and enable total control to the END USER has absolutely nothing to do with viruses and stuff.

If you look through the WP7 part of this site you'll see just WHY this platform should be jailbroken.

My first argument for a jailbroken OS is the ability to create apps FOR YOURSELF that the store provider IS not required to verify. And also, the ability to test your own apps on your device without the need to pay for it.

The second argument is the same as GDTD has said, the END USER should be the one in total control over device, otherwise it's not called security, it's called a lockdown.

And to bring more indie developers to Windows Phone, they should actually make it possible to deploy and test your own apps even before you need to PAY. Cause if I pay to be able to test a game I'm developing, that payment might be a waste of budget, since the game could take many months to perfect. You see my point?
[Windows Phone 8 General] efektos:
So it's about piracy... Yippy!

Although I tend to agree to this point, I still cannot FULLY agree - see my next explanation...

As I said, I cannot agree with you 100%: Yeah, MS took a big chance with the high developer license fee and with the tight lockdown of the OS, but they had a valid point in mind - to PROTECT the developer's property.

WP is a new OS, in a market totally dominated by iOS and Android - how could you attract the big shot companies to develop for your ecosystem (and lets not delude ourselves - almost NO ONE picks a platform based on how indie-developer friendly it is)? You make sure you PROTECT their property. What is one of the most deterring thing a software company faces with? Software piracy. Now, lets have a quick look:

Is there any piracy on iOS? Yup.

Is there any piracy on Android? LOL you betcha!

Is there any piracy on WP? Probably none.

So, if I'm a big-shot software development/service company (like Twitter, Gameloft, etc.) - will I put my money on a well-organized OS, which is tightly secured, has no piracy AND gaining marketshare every day? Hell, why not.

It'd be insane not to at least give it a try. I believe that in some point, MS is going to reduce the price on the dev license (or someone would find a way to hack the OS - whichever comes first) and then we'll face a surge of small-scale developers storming the (hopefully, mature and flourishing by then) WP Marketplace.

Until then, I think that those tiny-scale developers who pay for a license (or like me - get one for free from DreamSpark) will have to take a small risk and make their app count and shine above the others to make the payment worthwhile, thus enriching the Marketplace with apps which actually count. I suppose that when the OS will be finally hacked, we'll be also flooded with 3rd grade useless fart apps and the likes...

So, to sum things up - I'm all for total control of my property (the device which I bought off-contract and payed full price using my hard-earned cash), and as an ex-Nokia 900 user I truly value an open OS (and I had great fun at customizing the living hell out of my Nokia 900) - but for gaining a critical mass of user-base and money-pumping software development companies, you have to sacrifice a lot - and I truly believe that eventually it's going to pay off.

Hmpf... Look at this fine wall of text... Sorry for that :)
[Windows Phone 8 General] GoodDayToDie:
The sad thing is, not only is your argument wrong, your claims are wrong.

Argument: it's about piracy.

Reality: Completely untrue. Pirating WP apps doesn't require a "jailbreak" of any kind on the phone. There have been several hacks that have been used for app piracy. Developer unlocks are one (moderately complicated) way to pirate (a handful, unless you also interop-unlock) of apps, but not the only way and arguably not the easiest. I will not go into more detail here; that would be against both my personal ethics and the rules of the forum.

With that said, I would very much like to point out that you are being extraordinarily rude by twisting our words to assign a motive of low ethical quality to our goals, which have been stated to have other reasons entirely. While I will attempt to avoid stooping to your level, I have basically no respect for you right now and hence should probably not bother completing this comment, as I'm not sure I can do it without violating the forum rules. Did you miss the point about creating apps "for yourself", perhaps? Over half the apps I've written for WP7, and so far all o the ones for WP8, I have not published. Sometimes it was because they were for one-off tasks, sometimes because they were specific to my device, sometimes because they simply weren't publication quality and there wasn't enough demand. I have over 30 homebrew apps on my HD7, and zero pirated ones.

Ah, what the heck. Your so-called "fact" regarding the amount of piracy on WP is bull, as a trivial search of the Internet (or indeed, just reading this site, where people talk about such things fairly often until the mods shut them down). It exists, and no amount of lockdown has managed to stop it. The solution is, emphatically, not more lockdown.

Oh, and you don't understand economics. A platform with 60% market share and 75% piracy will still sell more copies than one with 5% market share and 0% piracy, all else being equal. All else isn't equal, of course, but your argument still makes no sense. As for "insane to not at least give it a try", that's an absurd statement; if it costs more to develop and maintain the app for platform X than you will get in revenue from the users of platform X, then you would be "insane" (or at least, demonstrating very poor business sense unless you expect some network effect to make up the different) if you were to "give it a try." OK, at this point I'm just shooting your post to pieces instead of staying on topic, so I'll stop.
[Windows Phone 8 General] efektos:
Well, I'm sorry if you were offended by my comment, but this is my opinion and you'll just have to live with it.

I did not miss the "creating apps for yourself" thing - I just didn't refer to it as I think its a valid point which I agree with, so I had no argument against it.

With that said - I think MS did not aim to initially please the indie developers, but more to please their target user-base, which are from the 'simple' non-developer type.

As for piracy, unfortunately it seems that I was misunderstood - I'm well-aware of the piracy in WP7, but I was referring entirely to WP8 as it still remains unhacked. I thought it was obvious, since we're currently posting in the WP8 forum...

Anyhow, even the WP7 piracy is rather contained, in contrary to iOS and Android. I'll explain: It's very easy to find and install pirated applications on iOS and Android - at the office I work in, some of the people are not very 'technology-minded', but I think I can safely say that 100% of them have pirated apps installed, or had pirated apps installed in one point or another since it's so easy to jailbreak these devices so why not at least try.

Jailbreaking WP devices is not easy (and with some devices, like my Lumia 900 - it's close to impossible) and if we're focusing specifically on WP8 - it's not even possible as far as I know.

I think this is mainly because of this lack of "openness" of WP and I think there is a prominent connection between jailbreaking and piracy, and this is what I meant when I wrote that "It's about piracy" - I was not hinting that you (or any other one here) want to pirate apps.

Sure, lack of "openness" has its pros and cons, but as I said - for being attractive to big software/service companies, it's quite the advantage and yes - as long as there is a "lockdown", it'll remain an advantage.

Wow! no way! a platform with 60% marketshare will sell more apps than a platform with 5% marketshare?

Give me a break. You seems like an intelligent man, so it's a bit hard for me to comprehend how you could make such a useless statement. I'll consider it as a one-time slip ;)

Now, lets use your example - will a platform with 60% marketshare and 75% piracy sell more apps than a platform with 20% marketshare and 0% piracy?

What about 30% marketshare and 0% piracy? or maybe 40% marketshare with 0% piracy?

You see where I'm getting at? I think this is where Microsoft is thriving to get to as well - be it a realistic goal or not, it's not for us to decide - but it seems that MS is definitely trying to get there.

We'll see how much Android or iOS will sell when WP will have 30% marketshare and 0% piracy...

You talk high on "business sense" but it seems that with your "business sense" you forget that a lot of software companies occasionally have development teams for multiple platforms.

Furthermore, if more big companies start making apps and services available to WP, it's more likely for a company which doesn't have any .NET development team, to get one and supply their app/service to the WP Marketplace and probably gain profit.

That's "business sense" right there.
[Windows Phone 8 General] mcosmin222:
Security vs lockdown

Some of you have been arguing weather the lock-down is or not about piracy.

I believe it is part about piracy, but the main reason is the platform overall security.

Giving full control to the user does not bring any security to the platform, in fact it makes it less secure. Anyone who thinks otherwise is deluded. The average user has no idea what to do with all the stuff he has at hand. He will like the amount of freedom he gets, but he will eventually get himself into trouble. Obviously, the user can never be wrong, thus the platform takes the blame...

It's like saying "give nuclear weapons under the direct control of the civilians, they know better than our trained military commanders".

Microsoft learned this the hard way. They allowed desktop windows, for many editions, to be very free and not locked out. It still is, and it was almost brought down by the amount of malware that exists on the platform.There may be other reasons why malware targeted mainly windows, but the fact still stands: if microsoft hadn't made windows so "open" there wouldn't be as much malware sitting around. However, there have been various improvements as far as security is concerned in 7 and 8 versions of windows.

They will not make the same mistake with WP8. They learned their lesson. They will allow neither developers nor users to bring risks to the platform. Third party apps can't do anything that would endanger the device or the information stored on it. Neither can the users, with the exception of some tasks (like factory reset and so on). Windows Phone will evolve, it is still a very young platform (only what, 3 years old?) but will do it the safe way.

While the lockdown works fine for the average user, it does restrict the power user. But microsoft won't win market share by addressing the power user.

I have every confidence that things will get better (on the looks of it, 8.1 update will bring a lot of new things).
[Windows Phone 8 General] vetvito:
Piracy isn't the reason this OS is so quiet outside of wpcentral.

Piracy isn't a major concern for none of the OSs.

The cobwebs exist for a lot of other reasons.
[Windows Phone 8 General] cevi:
From my point of view i think that the idea for jailbreaking wp8 comes directly from the users needs.We all know what all kind of states MS promised at the releasing day of wp8.They've said that almost every windows app will be possible to port to wp8.And here i am holding my HTC 8S surfing over limited pages cause "hey this is MS we use Silverlight sorry but Flash is bad for all of us" and hoping from day to day that i will get some decent file browser and some little bit more usable sd card usage and everyone knows what else.I mean come on people everywhere i see confrontations between users does jailbreak is good ir is not?Come on guys stop mixing Jailbreack with Hacking.Jailbreak is to much misunderstood.It's main purpose is trying to bring back the freedom of the user as it should be.I don't support piracy neader but there are more other ways for stopping it.Now because the piracy out there we must have our devices locked down to the maximum level because there are well payed MS developers who not knowing the right way of securing my device sat down and get a conclusion that the best antipiracy protection would be the entirely lockdown of the device.Everybody can do that.That's similar to like a car company make a nice stylish model of a car but the whole interior of the car is filled with silicone so that everybody who will drive that car will be 100% secured from all sort of injuries.It will have a voice navigation and two holes in the front so you can see where are you heading.

I want the freedom in my device not the security.I am personal responsible for my device security.I don't want a 3GB (2GB for OS and 1 for its po* drop) occupied device.When i was buying my HTC 8S no one has told me that i am getting a Live tile stylish touch pocket calculator.If this the future imagined way of releasing of OS's from Microsoft then sorry but this is not what i need.Was it Android or IOS or McDonalds, as long as i have free operational device i will stick to that.Sue me, judge me swear me i don't care.This is my personal opinion and a true heart expression for WP8.

Thanks MS for making a fool of me.

Sent from my Windows Phone 8S by HTC using Board Express
[Windows Phone 8 General] efektos:
It's not "so quiet outside of WPCentral" - it's quiet here, in XDA, because it is mainly devoted to Android.

You should go and see how much interest the platform stirs around the major tech blogs, when each new feature/news bit/application which is gaining publicity on WP generates a HUGE amount of traffic.

Yes it is. Well, piracy and malware, to be exact - which are both common on Android mainly because of the lack of this aforementioned "lockdown".

Please, enlighten us.
[Windows Phone 8 General] vetvito:
It's quiet everywhere besides wpcentral and Microsoft sites. Other sites only mention news, that's it. Sorry if you feel otherwise.

Piracy exist everywhere there is interest. Piracy is more rampant and easier on IOS sorry if you didn't know.

WP generates huge amount of traffic? Sure it does, sure. Compared to what WebOS?
[Windows Phone 8 General] efektos:
And "news" aren't an indication of being "not-quiet"? Yes it is - maybe not in your book, but in the real world - it is.

And how exactly this contradicts what I wrote? Since you brought it up already - at least iOS has some sort of a mechanism which can prevent you from installing and acquiring pirated software out of the box - with Android, all you have to do is flip a switch...

Compared to everything... Seriously, how can you compare it with something? It just generates interest and traffic and that's it.

I'm basing it on comments per article, btw.
[Windows Phone 8 General] vetvito:
So are you arguing actual traffic , data or simple comments on sites? Because no one cares about that. Only actual devices sold and new app and feature releases.

WebOS still generates news btw.

That sums up WP. That's all it does.
[Windows Phone 8 General] efektos:
Im basing it on a harsh thing called "reality" - it seems that it won't hurt you to check up with it once in a while.

Fact is that WP is the fastest growing OS in the world right now in terms of sales and marketshare.

Does "no one" cares about that too, or maybe "no one" would like to rephrase his statement?

Good for them. The more competition - the merrier.

That, and selling. Popular demand produces revenues. I really stress you to check on that "reality" thing...
[Windows Phone 8 General] vetvito:
Fastest selling is childish semantics. I'm a new produce seller and I sold 0 today. If I sell one produce item tomorrow I literally 100x my business. If I sell 2 the day after I am now the fastest selling producer in the world based on semantics. That's the reality WP is in.

What popular demand? Have you seen Nokia financials? Please tell me that you have and actually understand the financials. Popular isn't a word you'd use.

Don't know what reality you live in. Popular doesn't belong in the same sentence as Windows Phone.

Look at market share. That's nothing to brag about. Especially considering the fact that Microsoft controlled 60% of the smartphone market. (See how I use semantics there, the smartphone market was way smaller back then)

For your sake we can pretend WP is popular and peachy. Trust me I wish it was so I wouldn't have to use my iPhone so much for apps.
[Windows Phone 8 General] efektos:
Wha...? See, I told you to check on reality once in a while - the way you presented it is ITSELF childish (btw, 100% of 0 is still 0, but that's the least problematic of your claims).

Fact is that "fastest selling/growing" is actually measured quite accurately.

Alright alright, maybe you're just cut-off the world or something, I don't know. I see I have to do the searching job for you, but please next time do it yourself.

http://www.engadget.com/2013/05/16/idc-windows-phone-steals-third-place-blackberry/

http://www.engadget.com/2013/06/03/kantar-smartphone-q1-2013/

http://mynokiablog.com/2013/06/03/m...germany-france-italy-and-australia-8-4-in-gb/

http://mynokiablog.com/2013/05/21/n...ion-polls-ties-with-samsung-for-second-place/

http://mynokiablog.com/2013/03/14/w...stem-of-choice-as-well-as-by-os-satisfaction/

So, yeah - I think they're doing not bad for an OS which is only half a year old... Remind me please - what were the figures of iOS and Android when they were half a year old?
[Windows Phone 8 General] vetvito:
Lol half a year old? You sir, you win the internet.

This isn't Microsofts first rodeo.

You've officially made my day. ????

Lol, half a year old. Lol. You win.

Then you're really reaching when you have to compare first iterations of other OSs from completely different smartphone markets time to today's stats.

Then you bring up tech sites that it's their job to mention tech news and show it as if its amazing that WP made it on those sites.
[Windows Phone 8 General] mcosmin222:
Come now, flash is a dieing standard. If only google and Adobe would stop pushing it...

As i said, the "security is my problem" does not apply to the vast majority of users.
[Windows Phone 8 General] efektos:
I'm happy if you're happy :)

Wait, am I missing something? I'm talking exclusively on WP/Android/iOS here, obviously not WM as it's incompatible with MS's current ecosystem.

Are you implying that since WM has ceases to be, it means that MS is bound to fail in every future try at the mobile OS's market?

Uh I see. The stats are not good for you because they prove you're wrong.

Is Kantar and IDC are "tech sites"?
[Windows Phone 8 General] vetvito:
Ok let's forget WM let's act like it never existed. It was something completely made up. Lets forget WP7 too, it never existed.

Lets pretend WP is just a half year old.

My point was its their job to report any tech news. It's their job. That's nothing special. They report any and everything.
[Windows Phone 8 General] efektos:
Are we or are we not having this discussion on the WP8-related part of XDA?

And what if we included WP7 in the numbers? Why does it really matter? I think that all it was for is to probe the market and then jump-start the ecosystem - fact is that eventually (well, mainly since Nokia joined the party and was the only manufacturer that took the platform seriously enough) it brought the platform to where it is now, which is not a bad place at all.

I think it was MS's plan from the beginning, even though I could appreciate if it was at least optional to update my Lumia 900 to WP8...

No, it's not their job and they don't report everything - they report what they think will attract traffic, and fact is that WP-related news does just that.
[Windows Phone 8 General] vetvito:
This exact same discussion was in the WP7 part of the forum. This exact same discussion will be had in the WP9 forum. Same story same company just a different year.

Yes they do report everything tech related. They wouldn't be tech sites or reporting agencies if they didn't.