yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Galaxy S 4 General] YabeMadu:
Great thread and learned a lot.

But I'm a little confused about how big.LITTLE is supposed to work and how it is actually working in S4.

Out of the three modes, Cluster migration, core migration and HMP, only cluster migration is working in S4? Is that the conclusion?

And core migration and HMP is not implemented yet in S4?

I also read one reply that said only A15 cores are active at any time and A7s are not being utilized in the S4. Is this the case?

Finally, is the big.LITTLE architecture supposed turn on ALL 8 cores at same time (given the CPU is uder lot of load) or is it designed to operate only 4 cores (total 4 from both clusters) at any time under any load?

Thank you.
[Galaxy S 4 General] robertobsc:
[MENTION=4167023]AndreiLux[/MENTION] just to ask if I understood well: it means that only ikcs algorithm is workable in i9500, right? Even iks can't work in that device. Correct?

Enviado de meu GT-I9100 usando o Tapatalk 2
[Galaxy S 4 General] rakeshishere:
I know there's no concrete info about Note 3 CPU having proper implementation of Big Little Architecture but there's no harm in waiting ;)

One of things in my wishlist for my next phone upgrade which will be revolutionary than just a higher number on spec sheet or benchmark.
[Galaxy S 4 General] thekoRngear:
Hi, at this point it is being that way. One device got hardware sort of ****ed up, another device is just okay. So over times the s600 in 9505 will be getting more stability, more development, and its krait cores will become more efficient through kernel, firmwares and xda devs whilst the i9500 will still be stuck with cluster migration. Is not this a real time problem? Or, in future will it be possible that when the four A15s are online they will be more power efficient than now?

I am just merely asking this. If there is any aggressive claim in this- I beg your pardon.
[Galaxy S 4 General] Yuriy.Samorodov:
16GB Samsung Galaxy S4 only has about 9GB free for users

Default Sound crackling/distortion with certain headphones?

[YOUTUBE]oMIXcwvi_Qg[/YOUTUBE]

Are those issues making device "okay"? I doubt it.

Cheers,
[Galaxy S 4 General] MuertoKo:
^ Any fonts there? I guess not... And unless I missed any information or you have a cristall ball I think we have no idea on how Note 3 will be, we can just expect for the best though...

Otherwise I'll have a problem deciding which device to go after S3 around Sep/Oct... Note 3 or Nexus 5 (hoping...) or... really, no idea on what device to choose...

Then you should know it CAN'T be "fixed" with a software update as it's embeded in the chip, so NOT posible to solve it, at all. Even though it's a great device and CPU, just not as good as it could have been or as we could have expected.
[Galaxy S 4 General] noideaforusername:
Maybe it's a locked option in the chip that can be unlocked via s/w but our excellent devs here in XDA just couldn't find it yet :fingers-crossed:

So it's not only a code in the kernel like AndreiLux tested but only need a few more code lines to "unlock" the core migration option of the chip itself.
[Galaxy S 4 General] Yuriy.Samorodov:
As a bottom line, I think we need to determine the real world use cases, when A7 cluster is used and when - A15 cluster

So here go the questions:

Which cluster would operate if it's lying on the table with turned off display?

If there is a web browser running in the background (no video or audio), would A15 or A7 cluster be used?

And if there is music player running in the background with mp3 playing?

And if there is a video playing, would it be A15 or A7 task?

If I am on the voice call over 2g/3g (display turned off), wouldn't it be too hard for A7?

Is there any way to force app to switch clusters?
[Galaxy S 4 General] AndreiLux:
I don't know how more blunt I need to be about this: The chip is broken in hardware, crippled, not working, something silicon related that cannot be fixed unless for a new chip revision.

Everything you stated is done on the A7's. Just install any monitoring tool like Cool Tool and if the CPU goes over 600MHz, then it uses the big cluster.
[Galaxy S 4 General] Yuriy.Samorodov:
Dear Andrei!

Is there any chance to change this "crossover" value of 600Mhz?

Thanks in advance!
[Galaxy S 4 General] Gillion:
Now that we know the chip is broken at the silicon level, what is the next step forward.

Where do we go from this point.

Sent from my GT-I9500
[Galaxy S 4 General] AndreiLux:
You need a custom kernel for that, it's currently hard-coded.

It's still possible to run the chip asymmetrically in a 1x A15 3x A7 fashion (or even the full 8 cores) but it would have to use the old-fashioned way of doing things, meaning you flush the L2 cache to RAM and then back to another core. This still has the problem that HMP would have had because the scheduler is too dumb for it and it would require most logic of the HMP patches. The point of core migration was that the hardware could do the context switch via the CCI in a very fast and efficient manner, but that's not usable now. Anyway I doubt anybody, even me, would bother with this.

Don't know what you want to ask by where we go from here; the road is a dead-end. We focus on other things now.
[Galaxy S 4 General] Gillion:
Thats what I meant.

What do we focus on now.

I am still in a denial phase... but... **** happens.

This is going to create a real big stink once the news sites get hold of it.

Sent from my GT-I9500
[Galaxy S 4 General] Warrimonk:
[MENTION=346281]Andrei[/MENTION]

Can you clarify the statement made earlier in the thread?

The way i9500 displayed frequencies translates across CPUs are :

100 to 600mhz : The A7 cores are all active , at double the displayed rate (so 200-1200mhz)

800 to 1600 mhz : The A15 cores are active at the displayed frequency

Can these frequencies be governed by any programs yet? (Such as setcpu) Locking the system to A7s seems like it could provide some nice battery life.

Thanks for taking the time to read.
[Galaxy S 4 General] Halim2k:
You can limit CPU frequency to 600 MHz by using any program you want.

But for myself, I don't see any benefit from this, as most of the time even with heavy gaming only A7s are working.

Also I actually noticed that the A15s are working just in Benchmark Programs, specially Antutu, and I consider this as cheating :)
[Galaxy S 4 General] Yuriy.Samorodov:
That's actually very interesting while both i9505 and i9500 are doing very much the same as long as battery life is concerned.

:confused:
[Galaxy S 4 General] karlesg:
No you are wrong. Till now they are both lying and clearly misleading. Maybe it's not ARM's fault but in my point of view they are both responsible for this.

The document I showed you from ARM is not named "Advances in TC2 chip technology for power and energy savings"

It is actually named "Advances in big.LITTLE technology for power and energy savings"

Unless I miss something till now both Samsung and ARM are officially calling Exynos 5410 as big.LITTLE design. They are both continiously advertising and promoting it as big.LITTLE. In every official presentation the only thing you hear about Exynos 5410 is big.LITTLE...

So if Samsung and ARM call something big.LITTLE, this thing should have all the officially announced features of big.LITTLE technology, not some of the announced features. ALL OF THEM. It's like buying a radio which claims that supports both FM and AM. After you buy it you realize the AM is actually not supported. What are you going to call the manufacturer of this radio??? So no, until this moment both of them, but especially Samsung, they are clearly misleading the potential buyers of their products... end of story...

The only thing that still makes me wonder is what Samsung is going to do in the future. Are they going to release the same Exynos 5410 but with a different revision, or are they going to name it differently? Anyway whatever happens this is another verification of one of the oldest rules in the book. Don't be a too early adopter, because you might get seriously screwed... :p :D
[Galaxy S 4 General] rakeshishere:
This has to be on all news sites and Samsung needs to come up front and be transparent about why they are falsely advertising the BIG . LITTLE implementation on Exynos Octa

Edit:

Here's Linus Torvalds say on this

http://www.realworldtech.com/forum/?threadid=133089&curpostid=133421
[Galaxy S 4 General] noideaforusername:
Actually, nobody ever announced officially how the big.LITTLE works. Only that it combines 4 A15 cores for heavy tasks and 4 A7 cores for light tasks.

Actually, they never even mentioned something else but the way the chip works now.
[Galaxy S 4 General] @rbiter:
Samsung should of advertised it as big or LITTLE.

Sent from my GT-N7100
[Galaxy S 4 General] danveer:
Even I yesterday tested when and where a15 are used and here is my conclusion

I played subway surfers and temple run 2 and both of these games were runing at 600 mhz..

The only time the frequency jumped over 600 was during loading times.

The situation was same while playing iron man for most part as there were few instances where cpu jumped to 1200 mhz but that too for 1 or 2 seconds..

So for most part ee are still using a7 cores and It still feels smooth...:beer:
[Galaxy S 4 General] karlesg:
You are not serious now...

Are you?

Anyway as I said this is my personal point of view. And personally i don't give a sh*t what Samsung is or isn't going to do. Just expressing my opinion here which might be wrong...

Personally I'll be waiting for another device in the future, and most definetely I'm not going to buy I9500, neither I9505 of course. Not because I9500 is a bad device, but because it just doesn't deliver what it promises. Simple as that...

And as I said... end of story... :)
[Galaxy S 4 General] noideaforusername:
Yes, I'm serious. If they said and I'm wrong, can you give me a link please where they said o/w?

Where did they promised core migration?

I think it's only us, techy guys (and girls ;)) assumed that it'll be able to use core migration (and still it can but not via h/w as AndreiLux said).
[Galaxy S 4 General] karlesg:
In this thread Andreilux described us that Exynos 5410 doesn't have a properly working cache coherent interconnect.

I honestly can't understand what else remains to be said about all this...
[Galaxy S 4 General] racerex:
So basically migration is not as optimal on the Octa as it was originally thought. That's not such great news especially considering that gsmarena found the S600 to be more efficient across various tasks.

http://blog.gsmarena.com/battery-te...9500-galaxy-s4-complete-here-are-the-results/
[Galaxy S 4 General] noideaforusername:
I can live with only 4 hours less in endurance test and the more powerful CPU and GPU :highfive:
[Galaxy S 4 General] rubenswing:
As far as casual gaming go, the A7 will work... try playing HD games and then u will see the A15 being used
[Galaxy S 4 General] aami.aami:
ok. thanks for all ur hardwork in making public aware of the issue u found in Exynos version.

u have said it already its an issue on silicon level and its hardware issue.

what do u propose to everybody (including myself), should we get Exynos version or should we avoid and should the current owners of Exynos version sell their devices?

my other question is, as u found it to be a hardware issue, do u think there is a chance of any kind of sudden death issues with Exynos version like it was with S3? i mean is it more severe cause its hardware issue and S3 had only software issue?
[Galaxy S 4 General] yang.felix:
How stable the core migration on Octa? I'd believe some tricky thing happens in their secure ROM. CCI is disabled before the kernel starts up.

There are 3 IP blocks supporting cache snoop, MDMA(memory2memory dma), SSS(security) and FIMG2D. But the strange thing is how they connect to CCI bus if CCI is enabled, in dev_cci_snoop_control they write the strange CORE_MISC, it's a new block in Exynos5410 and obviously has something related to CCI.

MIF devfreq is used to set frequency of DRAM and FIMG2D. The strange thing is they monitor 5 types of transactions and use the sum of these bus utilization. we can easily know mem1_1 and mem0_1 are used by CPU, mem1_0 and mem0_0 are used by GPU, FIMG2D and display etc. They are 400MHz, The strange thing is NOCP_CCI, it counts 0 always now, what does the damn thing count eventually?

if everything connect to CCI, A15s, A7s, G2D, what's the max throughput the CCI bus can support and what's its frequency. how much power it consumes

who is Yang.Fei
[Galaxy S 4 General] danveer:
That's why I added iron man game result in my post..

Its over 800 mb in size and is free on play store by gameloft...

If that's not a heavy game please recommend something else...;)
[Galaxy S 4 General] rubenswing:
http://whatswithtech.com/25-best-android-hd-games-you-should-try/
[Galaxy S 4 General] AndreiLux:
As stable as a stick-house, it doesn't boot.

I don't see what you're trying to point at with the bandwidth monitors though, as far as I've been told the CCI isn't needed for the bus to run at all. Don't ask me how this is physically represented, maybe they're bypassing the ACE ports and connecting otherwise to the bus we know as "internal" and the CCI is just another layer on top of it. The CCI should be 128bit wide and running at internal speed, so max. 800 MHz (in some special cases) or 12.8GB/s. Since the CCI is disabled, doesn't it make sense for it the probe to count 0?

I thought you were a Linux guy from Huawei, nevermind.
[Galaxy S 4 General] yang.felix:
:) I'm thinking that if currently CCI is powered off, if they are going to use cpu migration, they have to power on it and let it run at 800MHz as you said. it may offset some power benefit of the A7 cores. The core migration has some other issue like when a CPU intensive task migrates between A15 and a7 very frequently, they may have issue to handle it. the governor needs some time to take action, also they have control of the very frequently core migration.
[Galaxy S 4 General] AndreiLux:
You're not making sense anymore. First of all migration happens currently on (supposed to) a 100ms basis which is an eternity. Secondly you're ignoring what I've been saying, their CCI is crippled and non-working in the first place.

Yes you have overhead of powering on the CCI, powering on the other cluster's L2, powering on the PMIC regulator buck for that cluster, but that's all irrelevant due to the huge power discrepancy between the two types of cores. And the cluster is powerd off anyway if all cores are migrated away from it. Currently in cluster migration they're taking a huge hit by having to flush the L2 caches on every cluster migration which could have been avoided if they moved it over the CCI.

(1600 Mhz A15) 1860 1619 1293 1043 841 704 571 455 387 (800 Mhz A15)

(1200 Mhz A7) 182 146 118 94 75 60 45 35 (500 Mhz A7)

Those are the power figures in mW. You don't throw away a factor of 3 in power efficiency like that. And it simply goes against ARM's claims and all info I've got about their CCI. I'll gladly eat my own **** if everybody is wrong and the chip is actually fine hardware wise, but that's simply not what's being reported.
[Galaxy S 4 General] DocRambone:
I took a look on what tasks light up the A15 cluster:

Pretty much every task that uses a lit screen. Webrowsing and playing videos lite up the A15 cluster a lot. This is the main reason to the heating problems on the 9500.

The cpu power saving feature in settings cures this behavior tho.

But as i see it the kernels out today (both custom and stock) still uses the A15 cluster way to much.

How about some simple tweaks on the up threshold and timings AndreiLux?
[Galaxy S 4 General] yang.felix:
Glad to see the power data. Really interesting. Thank you.
[Galaxy S 4 General] wholly1:
Ok, now, after closely following this thread only one simple question comes to mind.

is it worth to keep this phone?

Or,

Is there a hope that anytime soon someone will be able to unleash its power?

Cause if not, what is the point.?
[Galaxy S 4 General] MuertoKo:
Just, really, lol? You have a monster of CPU running Quad core A15, unbeatable when it comes to performance. It still has a nice battery life on A7 + A15 combo even if it's not as optimal as it would be with core migrattion, who cares? It's still great! (ok, we care, but it just rocks even without it :S). The GPU of i9500 is stunning, so is the camera sensor just beating by far the i9505 GPU and Camera... So what's your point on saying that?

All this disussion it's just at a "geeky" level, 95% of the people will have absolutely no idea and won't care about this, just because they'll still have the best performing smartphone out there and still having a superb battery life...

A friend of mine achieves 4+h of screen time on his i9500 with some hardcore usage at the end of a full day of use... Wish I could achieve that on my S3 without dimming screen or entering plane mode in underground...

Just please, keep it and enjoy it!
[Galaxy S 4 General] Gillion:
1. The Screen (Colours and fonts are nicer)

2. The Battery Life (I get 16 hours average with 5 hours screen time)

3. The size (its nicer in the hands)

4. The modem behaves better than the S3 and N2

5. The Camera is very good

In the future we may actually choose to shut off core migration and run either pure A15 or Pure A7

On the negative side: The only concern I have left is: What else is broken or What will break down the road (sudden death) ?.

We all have a 1 year warranty !

Besides I kinda like this less than perfect phone.
[Galaxy S 4 General] Tears for Fears:
To people who still think it's about "unleashing the power", I suggest re-reading the whole 25 pages. The I9500 is as powerful as it originally was intended to be. Power is NOT lost due to this issue! The only effect here is battery life! And even with its current setup, the battery life is somewhat on par with I9505! It's NOT worse!

63 hour endurance rating (1 hour of web browsing, 1 hour of calling, 1 of continuous video watching each and every day) is one heck of a rating for a beast like that! So stop your whining already.
[Galaxy S 4 General] Gillion:
It is mostly psychological.

People only want to know there is a flaw of some sort and then the fear uncertainty and denial kicks in.

My friend sudenly hated his S2 because it had the brick bug.

Despite the fact that he did not do anything that would trigger the brickbug.

Sent from my GT-I9500
[Galaxy S 4 General] wholly1:
It isn't whining, you just highlighted my point.

Why would I go for GT-I9500 if gti9505 is as efficient and have LTE on board.

Yes there are other factors like different camera module and better gpu, but I bought this product in believe that it will be working in the way it was mentioned and I was able to sacrifice LTE in its favour.

Now I see no point.

I believe not just mine, hence this thread.
[Galaxy S 4 General] noideaforusername:
Because it's performs better. The S600 throttles very easily and as you can see, the i9500 runs games as smooth as a Gaming Computer where the S600 lags and stutters.

BTW, GSMArena tests was done with LTE connection off so it won't be so efficient with LTE enabled...

And don't forget the Wolfson DAC that presence in the i9500 but not in the i9505.
[Galaxy S 4 General] barondebxl:
Thank you guys. I don't know why the hell ppl are complaining when the phone has above average battery life. Its definitely psychological.
[Galaxy S 4 General] Tears for Fears:
Let me tell you why.

BOTH have LTE,

BOTH have similar battery life

BOTH cost the same

And I9500 is more powerful on top of all.
[Galaxy S 4 General] wholly1:
i'm just one of those ppl who does not like to be played with.

simply if you buy car with twin turbo fitted you simply expect both to work as they should even tough car handling well with one working.

maybe 95% people does not care about it, but I do.

I work hard for every penny I spend and I don't mind to pay extra for premium toys, as long as they are what they should be.

in the end I do not care as much what hardware I have as long as it is efficient.

my previous phone had 4" dual core cpu and as fifth in series it was performing very well, only reason for change was size of the screen.

in fast only galaxy series phone that was good was S2 everything was as in description. then came s3 with fake hd pentile screen no different to s4.

fact is that because it is not working as it should there is lagging and not just some lag, it is very noticeable and frustrating.

waiting 5 seconds for camera to show up or simply juddering in flicking launcher pages.

it have checked on few phones 5 to be exact, with different stock roms and over all the same result.

i'm going of topic....

my point is, Samsung should take responsibility for all this false campaign, and if we will post things like:

yes it is not good but it's ok... we only encourage them to keep doing what they do.

decision is made on my end: I'm returning my SGS4 in favour of ONE of its competitor.

good luck guys.

---------- Post added at 05:46 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:44 PM ----------

what you mean both have LTE?
[Galaxy S 4 General] Tears for Fears:
Yes, both support an LTE chip. If you don't have LTE connection, blame your carrier, not the phone.
[Galaxy S 4 General] noideaforusername:
Where and when did Samsung promised core migration? All they mentioned is 2 clusters that can be switched.

Opening apps and this kind of staff have nothing to do with the CPU, it is depends on the flash memory and optimization to it done by Samsung.

Please, do tell me, what they promised (and not speculated by us) they didn't deliver? :confused:
[Galaxy S 4 General] wholly1:
I do not understand why you defend them.

Big LITTLE technology is not unique to samsung and in all other cases it work the way we all thought it will in samsung galaxy S4 with both procesors working simultaneously using 4 cores in total.

Going back to my analogy its like advertising twin turbo car where everyone know for example that those allways work together. in this case without saying anything, technology has changed and now second one kicks in when you reach certain high rpm

In effect car is still efective and quick but torque on lower rpm is not as expected.

Just go to YouTube and serch for big LITTLE.

---------- Post added at 07:15 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:11 PM ----------

i'm sorry what you mean?

GT-I9500 support LTE?

where did you get that from?
[Galaxy S 4 General] Tears for Fears:
I'm sorry, but where the f**k did you get that I9500 doesn't support LTE? Go search the net.

And I don't get one thing, you said you wanted to return the I9500 and go for one of the competitors. For what reason? To spread hatred? You were afraid that the I9500 doesn't have a battery life as good as we expected, but I9505 is the second best phone existing today, I9500 is the first best phone existing today. So you decide to downgrade even more?
[Galaxy S 4 General] wholly1:
Ok show me, smart a... ;D
[Galaxy S 4 General] Tears for Fears:
Lazy ass...

Here's one link, a comparison between the two. You don't need to read everything, just one paragraph in the Introduction.

http://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_galaxy_s4_i9500_vs_i9505-review-930.php

Every article in any news site claim that BOTH devices support LTE. If yours doesn't, it's probably because of your carrier not supporting LTE connectivity.
[Galaxy S 4 General] Gillion:
Gentle People...

http://www.realworldtech.com/forum/?threadid=133089&curpostid=133428

I would recommend you follow up the thread for some more context.
[Galaxy S 4 General] wholly1:
we going of topic again... this is my last reply to this subject I hope you understand.

"

It seems

both chipsets are perfectly capable of providing LTE connectivity"

again you are talking in Samsung favour based on one sentence written not even by Samsung where IT SEEMS you take for granted.

YOU RE NOT OBJECTIVE.

MY PHONE IS NOT LTE CAPABLE. I tested it.

unless you know how to turn it on :)

best regards.