yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Galaxy S 4 General] karlesg:
Most people don't even realize what this issue is about. So please restrain yourselves from posting useless things. :)

Let's hope Andreilux will give us some more info.
[Galaxy S 4 General] toxicdust:
This is really not that hard to understand ...

You have a "little" and a "big" CPU thats both Quad Core. The "little" (A7) CPU uses a lot less power than the "big" (A15) CPU. When simple tasks gets completed only the A7 works to get it done using considerable less power than what the A15 would have used.

When High performance is required the A15 kicks in and completes the tasks at hand but is a battery guzzler.

What are you all *****ing about anyways ... You have a dual Quad core processor in your phone that each fills a different role. OBVIOUSLY you cant use both at the same time UNLESS you are using multi tasking in both spectrum's with a low performance app and a high performance app.

You have to understand how the hardware works to try and understand what your *****ing about... You cant put a 1.1l diesel engin in a Ferrari as a second enjin and expect them to work together to give you higher performance. The 1.1l would contribute nothing to the maximum speed the Ferarri enjin does

To make a comparison so that normal people can try to understand it

The way this has been setup is based on speed. The "little" processor starts the "car" and starts to move it forward up until 120km/h (1200 mhz) as soon as you push the pedal down and exceed 120km/h (1200mhz) the "little" processor shuts down as it cant keep up with the speed of the "big" processor and the "big" processor takes over completely to take it to 160km/h (1600mhz) without needing the "little" processor to help at all.

So the question really is what the hell are you complaining about cause clearly some people don't quite understand the technology and want to now sound all technical and act none the wiser.

That's how it was designed and that's how it works. If you didn't think it work that way then you clearly misinterpreted the technology and how it was supposed to work but in no way was it ever meant for 2 CPU's of different size and capacity to contribute to the same process. Its illogical and technology based on bus sizes and processing power does not allow that.
[Galaxy S 4 General] SirCanealot:
You should really realise that someone making an informed-sounding post like that is either a complete ********ing idiot, or he really knows that the *******ing hell he's talking about.

I think you made the wrong decision; the op is one bad-ass ninja mofo.

And I'm quite surprised and disappointed really. Considering they haven't really changed the BIG.little design, wouldn't they have been able to use most of the work Arm has done? Or do they not actually provide the kernel software to run on a phone like the S4?

Either way, I'm sure it'll be sorted for the Note III :P

Thanks a lot, Andrei!
[Galaxy S 4 General] iba21:
And sure you doesent know the process productive of 5420 too..

Samsung says only hkmg...

---------- Post added at 10:57 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:56 AM ----------

As i understand is impossibke to.fix the 5410 due to mosfet arch..
[Galaxy S 4 General] superfast:
http://www.unwiredview.com/2013/09/...software-upgrade-will-get-to-current-products
[Galaxy S 4 General] sorg:
Meizu may have newer revision of 5410 with some hardware fixes applied since they start to use it much later than in I9500.
[Galaxy S 4 General] i9100g user:
Original source

I think that guy misunderstood :roll eyes:
[Galaxy S 4 General] AndreiLux:
It's a case of one website posting a mis-translated bit and the rest of the flock following like sheep posting the same "news". Almost all of today's tech sites are manned by morons.
[Galaxy S 4 General] i9100g user:
Haha yeah exactly :D
[Galaxy S 4 General] htcplussony:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/7313/samsung-announces-biglittle-mp-support-in-exynos-5420

Anandtech say they fixed the CCI cache/bus bug. Doesn't help the 5410 guys though.
[Galaxy S 4 General] bobdoblo:
http://m.gsmarena.com/meizu_software_update_enables_true_octa_core_exynos_5-news-6770.php

NeatROM S2 Mods

+

Battery Guide
[Galaxy S 4 General] desz:
the truth is out there

Again, the panic begins! Samsung is silent again!

TOP Secret

Galaxy S4 : I Want to Believe

Genre

Science fiction

Horror

Drama

Mystery

Thriller

Created by	Samsung

Starring	Exynos 5 5410

Exynos 5 5420

Composer ARM

Country of origin	Third world countries

Original language	English

No. of seasons	4

Production Samsung

Executive producer Samsung

Running time 2013

Original channel http://xdaforums.com/

:p
[Galaxy S 4 General] marc_ecko28:
http://www.sammobile.com/2013/09/11...-eight-core-devices-through-software-upgrade/

It might be true...

Besides no one knows what really inside..

Samsung was silent all this time..

Lets wait and see...
[Galaxy S 4 General] yahyoh:
its not :rolleyes:
[Galaxy S 4 General] marc_ecko28:
Well... thats why Im saying it might... :)

True or not my s4 can still do the task I needed.

So if its true it good for us if not then thats life :)
[Galaxy S 4 General] yahyoh:
huh!! and is Samsung shy to say 5410 will get HMP ? :cyclops:

but if that will happen it would be great but i'm still thinking it wont :/
[Galaxy S 4 General] marc_ecko28:
Lol.. they dont even mention 5420 afaik.

Btw as Ive said if i9500 will get that hmp or not Its no a big deal for me.

:D

End of the story :)
[Galaxy S 4 General] yahyoh:
http://xdaforums.com/showpost.php?p=45483066&postcount=379

read the info in youtube videos ;)

and

http://www.samsung.com/global/busin...eterogeneous_Multi_Processing_Capability.html
[Galaxy S 4 General] marc_ecko28:
We all know samsung was really silent all this time.

If its true its good for us i9500 users, if not... nothing will change...

Anyway I believe andrei that this 5410 is dead.

Cheers :beer:
[Galaxy S 4 General] Tears for Fears:
Why dead? It's just a flesh wound! It'll live happily ever after with a scar.
[Galaxy S 4 General] iba21:
We doesent know when and where samsung will release the 5420 in note3.. so.. no rumors at the moment
[Galaxy S 4 General] yahyoh:
[MENTION=4167023]AndreiLux[/MENTION] have u looked at the Note10.1 2014 kernel source code :)

its seems the for Exynos 5420 version :D

http://opensource.samsung.com/reception/receptionSub.do?method=search&searchValue=SM-P600
[Galaxy S 4 General] rakeshishere:
I for sure know HMP is coming for the Exynos 5420 but what about the 5410? There's contradicting info everywhere :mad:
[Galaxy S 4 General] mw86:
They cannot change the existing 5410 chip and will continue only to move on as been said in previous page posts. New devices will recieve that 5420 if they are receiving a new exynos in the device. Personally this 5420 will be small jump over 5410 like perfecting the gts or hmp etc and likely a more refined implementation will come out in 2014. The S800 is being bested in some basic cpu tests by the Octa and the other half the s800 is winning due to the clocks it runs. I think Sammy wants to drop a refined 5420 and beat the few aspects that the 5410 just slightly falls behind in.

All the contradictory info on 5410 is wrong. Andrei's thread on Octa proves it. Nothing will fix 5410 it is running as they decided to release ie. Ie half baked. Still one of the top mobile cpus but never will have hmp/gts..
[Galaxy S 4 General] iba21:
5410 is bugghed.. stop

Only new 5420 will have the hmp

Stop.

Now you understand? :p
[Galaxy S 4 General] thekoRngear:
His contradiction comes from lack of adequate facts. That 5410 had a hw cripple- the CCI was disabled. That CCI was the thing that could enable GTS (MP) and HMP. Therefore, 5410 (of S4) wont have HMP, never ever.
[Galaxy S 4 General] iba21:
Yep.. this is the "tech" version of what i sad!

The problem was when some blogghers says it was possible to do the upgrade..
[Galaxy S 4 General] rakeshishere:
I got confused due to this

http://www.gsmarena.com/meizu_software_update_enables_true_octa_core_exynos_5-news-6770.php
[Galaxy S 4 General] iba21:
You have not to be confused.. simply.. it's a fake news.
[Galaxy S 4 General] erdc:
Is this fake also?

http://www.sammobile.com/2013/09/11...-eight-core-devices-through-software-upgrade/

"However, if you were worried that HMP would need to be implemented at the hardware level and hence require a new device, then Chinese manufacturer Meizu has some good news. According to Meizu, HMP can be implemented through a software upgrade, and will be made available to the MX3, its current flagship that uses the same Exynos chip as the Galaxy S4. This means that we should see Samsung doing the same for its own devices, and it could be the reason why the Korean manufacturer is only showing off the new eight-core capability without naming a new Exynos chipset."
[Galaxy S 4 General] iba21:
Well.. if you would beleave in it.. it's not a problem.. the real is, it's phisical impossible due to CCI issue.

It's what andreilux sad.. and.. sure.. he's not stupid. So.. you shoul believe in him

By the way.. in my opinion, big.little cluster migration is better than any other competitor logic
[Galaxy S 4 General] erdc:
I do search and want to believe only the truth. The link says what Meizu (the owner of mx3 smartphone which have the same exynos 5410 proccessor with s4), gsmarena and samsung explains. If all that fake you're great and you are right...
[Galaxy S 4 General] Gillion:
We are incorrectly assuming the person that spoke for Meizu, in the article, knows what they are talking about?
[Galaxy S 4 General] erdc:
So?
[Galaxy S 4 General] yang.felix:
Does anyone get SM-N900? Why Samsung's kernel source is still cluster migration?

62 CONFIG_ARM_EXYNOS_IKS_CPUFREQ=y

63 CONFIG_ARM_EXYNOS_IKS_CLUSTER=y
[Galaxy S 4 General] rosh.mendis:
Sorry for posting on this thread after many years later, but I am researching the exynos5410 bus monitor (bw_mon) and came across Yang.Fei's comment on this thread.

I was hoping either Yang.Fei or someone else can shed some light on the bw_mon probes seen in the i9500 kernel.

Specifically:

MFC0, MFC1

GSC23

ISP0, ISP1

GEN

FSYS

MEM0_0 , MEM1_0, MEM0_1, MEM1_1

CCI

GSC0, GSC1

DISP0, DISP1

Which IPs do these field represent ?

How can we tell if MEMx_0 belongs to the GPU+FIMG2D traffic and MEMx_1 belongs to the CPU traffic.

Is FIMG2D responsible for drawing the launcher/homescreen ? because I can see high bandwidth when phone is idle on the homescreen, even though GPU utilisation is zero. How can this be ?

Also, as mentioned earlier why is CCI zero ??

Any sort of clarification or pointers to documentation would be helpful.

Many thanks!
[Galaxy S 4 General] akrontomaz:
Guys, I'm just watching all this fuss about the S4, people canceling pre-orders because some people say X, other say Y, other say screen is smearing, screen has a red dot (pixel), he phone gets hot, touchwiz lag etc.

Man is not possible to have a perfect phone, for me is working great, receive my emails, nice apps, browsing well. OK maybe touchwiz hangs a little bit in the "morning", its OK.

The idea is people seems to want to kill them slfs because of a phone, I can enjoy life even with a non perfect S4. :)

Peace for Humanity :good:
[Galaxy S 4 General] karlesg:
lol

Actually that's one of the 3 possible ways it was designed to work. And actually that's the worst possible way for battery efficiency.

I'm not comparing with other architectures. I'm talking specificly about big.LITTLE architecture, this is the worst case scenario.

Anyway let's not make this a vs thread. There is no point in this. Let's stick to the info. Whatever the case is, it's an interseting issue. :)
[Galaxy S 4 General] touness69:
No one here suggested that both "quad cores" cluster should work together at the same time, instead we hoped they can work together with a batch of 4 maximum like having 3xA7 cores running with 1xA15 core at the same time or 2xA7 cores with 2xA15 cores together. Arm's big.LITTLE should allow that but the OP figured out that it's not quite implemented currently on the OCTA S4, it's either four A7's or four A15's at the moment.

So keep calm and read carefuly posts of other members of this thread before you write anything
[Galaxy S 4 General] toxicdust:
Yes I completely understood what the OP said and I complete understand the technology but yet again my post was to clarify to the people that want to cancel their orders and freaking out how the technology works.

But what you are asking for is not possible. Hardware infrastructure don't work that way regardless. You want to have 2 cars deliver 1 person to a location by having 2 wheels of each car turning where 1 car could have done the same job and have all 4 wheels turning consuming less power in the process

Listen to what you are requesting as logically it makes no sense.
[Galaxy S 4 General] touness69:
Yet this is exactly how it was meant to be in the first place..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6UNODPHAHo
[Galaxy S 4 General] POLO_i780:
(The bold text) This is how I've always understood the Octa to work and I'm happy with it being like that, it's doing exactly what it says on the tin, no?
[Galaxy S 4 General] Turbotab:
Your arrogance and ignorance are amazing, you said "I completely understood what the OP said and I complete understand the technology" Amazing, you understand big.LITTLE completely, but totally fail to grasp the two main modes in which it can run in.

This technology, can with future updates to the Linux kernel run all 8 / n# cores together on the same task, it is called heterogeneous multi-processing (HMP) Somehow with your 'enjin (sic) analogy this can't be possible?, on a threaded task, do all threads have the same priority and need of CPU cycles? Intel's hyper-threading technology does not offer equivalent CPU performance to each thread, but it works.

The feature, we expected from Samsung in their 5410 was IKS with core level granularity, so you could have 2 A15s running, with an A7 also active, for example the A15s could be active while web browsing, whilst the A7 is checking for system / email updates etc. Now the OP is saying that the granularity is at the cluster level, that is a disappointment as it doesn't deliver the technology nuance we were expecting.

At first, software was thought to be the reason, but now the OP believe that it could be a hardware limitation, I await patiently to see how this plays out, and I can understand people's disappointment, and desire to wait until all the fact are clear before spending a significant amount of money on a phone.
[Galaxy S 4 General] toxicdust:
Deleted

---------- Post added at 03:15 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:45 PM ----------

"Since the A7 and A15 are equally capable of executing the same ARM instruction set, any applications running on one core can just as easily be migrated to run on the other. In the example above there are a pair of A15s and a pair of A7s on a single SoC. In this particular configuration, the OS only believes there are two cores in the machine. ARM’s own power management firmware determines which core cluster to activate depending on performance states requested by the OS. If the OS wants a high performance state, ARM returns the A15 cores at a high p-state. If it wants a low performance state, the chip will put the A15s to sleep and schedule everything on the A7s. Cache coherency is guaranteed via the CCI-400 interconnect, so any data invalidated by one core cluster will be reflected in the other cluster’s cache. ARM claims it can switch between core clusters in this configuration in as quick as 20 microseconds.

If everything works the way ARM has described it, a big.LITTLE configuration should be perfectly transparent to the OS (similar to what NVIDIA is promising with Kal-el). ARM did add that SoC vendors are free to expose all cores to the OS if they would like, although doing so would obviously require OS awareness of the different core types."

Source: http://www.anandtech.com/show/4991/...alcore-more-power-efficient-highend-devices/2

Please before throwing big words out there read what I said and then read the article. I bold all the things you clearly misinterpreted. As said before it cant use cores from both clusters. Only 1 cluster can be active at a time. So it's currently doing exactly what ARM is describing it should do. Android is not Core aware and wont be for a considerable long time.
[Galaxy S 4 General] AndreiLux:
It can use cores from both clusters at the same time. Please just stop talking and please stop posting 2 year old articles which you don't understand.

There's cluster migration, there's core migration, and there's full MP. Read up on them before you embarrass yourself in saying you understand the mechanisms.

You don't have the slightest clue what you're talking about here. Android has nothing to do with it.
[Galaxy S 4 General] Turbotab:
Man oh man, big words really, at least I can spell them! And your come back is to copy & paste an Anandtech article, wow thanks for your, I mean Anandtech's insight:rolleyes:

As I clearly said heterogeneous multi-processing (HMP) requires updates to the Linux kernel and is a work-in-progress, but it is a real technology, and once implemented an application would be able to utilise all the cores on both clusters simultaneously, please read the white papers, rather than rolling the rizla papers.
[Galaxy S 4 General] demlasjr:
I feel the need to kill every person who says : "I want Octa because in future I will be able to use all 8 cores in the same time"

:eek:

Oh please, give me a break. I'm sure most of you have dual core processor in your pc and you want 8 in your phone. Useless and waste of power, energy. Oh wait... Sorry.... I forgot that you guys spent all your money on this phone and you have no money for heating your houses next winter. Keep the phone in your hands and near your balls!

Those children... :rolleyes:

Also Octa should work as advertised and as AndreiLux said. There is even a video from Samsung Exynos showing that the cpu cores can work like:

0xA15 + 4xA7

1xA15 + 3xA7

2xA15 + 2xA7

3xA15 + 1xA7

.. And so on and NOT

4xA15 + 0xA7

0xA15 + 4xA7
[Galaxy S 4 General] Szadzik:
Are we talking hard facts from the op here, or rather theory like with the bootloader in the case of users with Write protection: Enabled?
[Galaxy S 4 General] demlasjr:
I would say hard facts mate. I trust AndreiLux, he's a pro, not a noob

He really knows how to analyze a phone and its firmware
[Galaxy S 4 General] Szadzik:
I do not doubt his credentials, just asking whether it is as simple as one analysis. I am no scientist, but I did study some research methodology and am a bit of a Doubting Thomas at times when it comes to determining facts on the basis of one report, no matter how good the source is.
[Galaxy S 4 General] AndreiLux:
As I said in the OP: I have the phone, I recompiled the kernel, I modified the drivers.

Stopping short of making screenshots and doing a step-by-step spoon-feeding of the details to the users; that's how it is.
[Galaxy S 4 General] krabman:
I was one of the folks that discussed canceling my order but freaking out had nothing to do with it. I'm perfectly satisfied with the performance of my sgs3. It never lags, never hitches, everything opens up without any delay and I don't play games, my phone is communications and information tool. I'm a bit of a slut when it comes to cool new devices though so I ordered this one for two reasons, the improved battery life and the IR. Remove or seriously gimp the hoped for better new battery life and that leaves me with IR for the only reason to make a 700+ dollar purchase. I do understand there are other facets to the phone such as the improved screen but I'm fine with the screen on my old phone which I think looks outstanding and so it goes with the rest of these things. Things get worse when you consider the fact that the IR capability is not adequate in its current form to run my home theater and while I think at least the Harmony app looks promising the fact is that wont be out before I leave for Alaska in late June making the IR also a non starter until at least late October when I get back and the entire time I'm gone I'll be in a place with no cell service not using the phone at all. By the time I do get back if the boys do their usual with the Nexus 5 it will be going on sale around or just before the time I get here. Too be honest I have a lot of discretionary income and cash at this point in my life, I'm old and don't need any more coffee tables but this buy in is beginning to look a bit like throwing money away.

I think my message is please speak for yourself, you have no idea what I or any other user does or does not want from their phone to say nothing of making a blanket statement about understanding issues.
[Galaxy S 4 General] DADER:
LOL , if you are talking about cars , top gear managed to wield 2 cars to be one Lemo. so it is possible Mr. clarifier :cool:
[Galaxy S 4 General] sorg:
AndreiLux,

Is there big difference in power consumption between power down and idle for cluster?

Did u found the source of problem? Separate core cannot be powered down but whole cluster?

Can you tell more details about hardware restriction you've got information about?
[Galaxy S 4 General] bala_gamer:
oh yes, im still waiting for him to explain.. the wait is killing me :p
[Galaxy S 4 General] Jeshter2000:
Im eagerly waiting too. Will be recieving mine tommorow or the day after....
[Galaxy S 4 General] AndreiLux:
The phone has power collapse CPU-idle states now on an core-independent basis, with cluster migration and low task loads you're basically in extreme race-to-idle conditions while on the A15 cluster. The problem is that I'm doubtful that pulsing the A15's in and out of idle is more power efficient than simply letting the task reside on the A7's, even if you have to keep power on the A7 cluster and its cache.

Other than that, no I don't have detailed information. I tried to force the IKS driver instead of the IKCS one and the phone didn't boot. I'm really wondering about those phones who were running at 1.8GHz what driver they were running or if that was just the same case with higher frequencies.
[Galaxy S 4 General] sorg:
What phone you're talking about?

May be it's worth to look into SHV-E300 kernel source code? May be Samsung did something special in their local model?

Sorry, i didn't understand this sentence. Can you re-phrase it, please?

Is there not enough power to keep both clusters in CPU-idle state at the same time? Or power is not enough for A7 in idle state while running A15?
[Galaxy S 4 General] demlasjr:
I week personally go for I9505. More than $100 cheaper, 2 years local warranty instead of one in USA, better support, better gpu, no hot phone and LTE for future. With the money I save buying this version i will get 1 additional battery and maybe s band.

The reason I upgrade to s4 from s3 is the ram, screen and features.
[Galaxy S 4 General] ChronoReverse:
You should really Google the terms but he's basically saying that it may be more power efficient to simply complete a task solely on the A7 cores rather than switching to the A15 to finish the task quicker and then going back to idle.
[Galaxy S 4 General] sorg:
Before tell me to google, read the sentence i've quoted. ok?

AndreiLux said, there is hardware restriction preventing current Exynos 5 Octa CPU use per-core task scheduler. So, i'm trying to ask more information what exactly restriction is.

I didn't ask about performance or efficiency of A15 or A7.

Can Octa use all 8 cores independently or not? That's the question. If not, then probably there is explanation. May be IKS source code is simply not mature or even not finished yet. So, may be the problem is pure in software and then we have hope to get it working later. If there is restriction in hardware then it's definitely end of hope.
[Galaxy S 4 General] Szadzik:
As I said, I do not doubt your knowledge or credentials. I just want to make sure this is 100% verified information. I hate when people start theories on stuff that is unconfirmed - just as it was with bootloader.
[Galaxy S 4 General] ChronoReverse:
I did:

Note the last line before asking about for information about the hardware limitation again though.