yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[One (M7) General] hamdir:
I never said endure few months of replacements I said after launch in 2 months the QC was sorted, I am telling you facts and you could buy a flawless One X from the get go as long its not coming from the first bad batches, yes early adopters got burned big time I am one of them but those who bought it later never suffered any of this, so really you can not generalize and conclude the "One X had poor QC" the correct statement is "The One X had poor QC at launch" it's lifeline of production is over a year, and burned early adopters are a fraction of those who bought it throughout that year

Release defect issues plagged many other devices including the beloved Nexus 7, Nexus 4, iPhones and yes even the SGS2/SGS3, that is still wrong but the point is it's not specific to HTC it is a problem with the entire industry and rush to release race

yes the One X was plagged with an abnormal amount on launch but that it is not to say it was not sorted quickly, and it doesn't seem to be the case to the One the only issue so far is some imperfections to the finish and a tiny gap ie: typical early assembly issues

Again i say facts because I have collected all the facts about the One X for better or worse, I did criticize them badly for the QC, I still criticize them badly for broken gaming on the One X, Boot loader difficulties, I've worked on many of the solutions later on, i've criticized them and fixed the initial Launcher lag, but they listened and fixed it from their end

Edit: to clarify further I didn't mean the One X with "stupidest of reasons", I meant the current M7 situation and then went on to answer about the One X

---------- Post added at 02:15 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:23 PM ----------

As for the topic of this discussion

Samsung might be having lesser QC launch issues since they've been relying on tried and tested design/build techniques for 3 generations now

This doesn't cancel the fact that people are getting tired with this and are asking for something better
[One (M7) General] BarryH_GEG:
Here's the funny thing about features. Whether people use them or not, they notice the absence of them when making comparisons. Here's LG's mutliview.

They also rolled out an update a couple of weeks ago that added most of the s/w features on the SGS3/N2 including Awake Stay and voice and motion controls. Their rolling out another one this month that matches some of the features of the SGS4.

• Smart Video – works like Samsung’s Smart Pause, recognizing the position of the viewer’s eyes to automatically play or stop the video without any manual input. Using the front camera, the device can detect when your gaze returns to resume the video playback.

• Dual Camera – similarly to the Dual Recording function, Dual Camera simultaneously captures photographs of both the subject and the shooter.

• Pause & Resume Recording – so you can pause and start in record mode to create one continuous video file. Otherwise, you would have to create a new video clip whenever recording is restarted.

Will it matter to the masses whether the device they end up buying has these types of features? I don't think any of us can say outside how we react personally. Outside of Samsung, LG's the only (non-Chinese) Android manufacturer that's been gaining market share so maybe it does make a difference to people.
[One (M7) General] barondebxl:
The launch of a product is probably the most important thing and a very critical point , cause it gives an idea to the consumer what kind of product it is and it also tells them about the company that launches it. Can you imagine going to a brand new restaurant that just opened, you order food, 1st time you go there and there is hair in your soup, 2nd time you see mice running around the restaurant? It wouldn't make you wanna go back for sure, even if things get sorted out eventually, because it means that they didn't pay attention to details, cleanliness etc and you just wouldn't trust it.... so those same people will eat at another restaurant ( and they are plenty other restaurants out there with good food). It's food so it's a little different but the idea is the same. There are plenty of competitors out there, and when you compete head to head with other manufacturers that have advantages over you ( more money, more brand recognition), you can't afford all these QC issues. Yes every OEM gets some type of issues, but it seems that HTC gets them more often then others.
[One (M7) General] coupetastic-droid:
How do you figure this? Is this just from your experience? My wife and I mytouch 4g when bought 2 and a half years ago, first batch and not a single defect, when I upgraded her to the amaze 4g, first batch, only the creaking of the battery door which shouldn't even be called a defect and my mother's one s, first batch, no defect. It's the luck of the draw. Every OEM has their first batch defects, many. Some get lucky and receive a defect free device and some **** out of luck. Some people just like to make some thing out of nothing, my opinion. You can call me a fanboy, whatever, so be it. But htc has the best quality of any device I seen, felt in my hand.
[One (M7) General] jonny68:
The One's premium design was the deal clincher for me, my S3 served me well but I was tired of the same old cheap design.
[One (M7) General] barondebxl:
Funny you speak of the my touch 4g, it was my best experience with an HTC device.

How do I figure this? Well it isn't a secret that HTC has had QC issues with their recent phones. Some people make something out of nothing yes, but even with the One, some had returned it 3 times.... 3 times for the love of God. Are you serious? I don't think someone would return a device 3 times for pity issues. And I did stated that every OeM has some type of issue at launch, but for my personal experience, let me take Samsung for example ( I have owned more Samsung devices than any other). I had the first Galaxy S, not a single issue. I had 2 Galaxy s 2, one was the I9100, the other was the T-mobile UsA version T-989, not a single issue. Then the note 1, guess what? No issue at all. S3? nothing, note 2? Beast. Now to be fair, from my personal experience, the only HTC device that I had QC issues with was the sensation ( I really dislike that phone, turned me from an HTC fanboy to an HtC hater AT THAT TIME). I had the tegra 3 One X and no QC issue whatsoever, had the Snapdragon One Xl, no issue whatsoever. But how many other people had issues? It was crazy to see the amount of ppl having issues with their One X. The "issue thread" at the time was the busiest One with many users reporting some type of problem with their One X. For all the Samsung devices that I owned, I never seen ppl complaining so much that it really made me think twice.
[One (M7) General] SeanBlader:
If you didn't like the One X, you probably won't like anything HTC ever does. Sorry bro.

---------- Post added at 10:52 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:36 AM ----------

I have a computer (or 3) if I want multiple windows open at once, and that just doesn't even factor into the usage of my phone. Sounds like far too much to manage, I'm happy letting the music play in the background if I need to do it the same time as anything else.
[One (M7) General] Hudrator:
I support your point oft view, but there is one thing that you are missing.

People would have to gather information. An average user will not. Take a clear look at it. Most people just go into the store of their carrier and ask what they could get. Maybe they have a family member or friend, they ask before. And that's it.

There is no reading on xda, blogs or something else. They simply don't' t care.

When there are 10 % out there of the One owners who know about gap issue or something else, it is a huge amount.

I think HTC knows this. So for the success of an device, marketing and building a "must have" situation is all.

After that, comes quality of an device. But as written above ,which average user will have an eye on bad build quality?

The big difference with the one X is, that the one x had problems with things, an average user recognizes ( faulty wlan antenna, yellow spots, "cracking" of the screen inside the houseing under pressure...).

The one doesn't has that kind of issue.
[One (M7) General] superchilpil:
I have to ask, how did this go from talking about Samsung changing their future phone designs to a Samsung vs HTC fanboy battle?
[One (M7) General] MadManMark:
"I have a computer" this response is so fanboy-Ish it is a smartphone you know
[One (M7) General] hamdir:
it always does, it seems inescapable whenever these two brands are put in the same topic
[One (M7) General] barondebxl:
Thanks and I'm glad we can discuss it as adults.

You're right about the fact that the general consumer won't notice what we do, totally agree. But I do have a couple of examples that say otherwise and one was as recent as 2 weeks ago. One of my coworkers has an HTC sensation, he isn't a techie person at all. We had a discussion between the two of us and eventually others joined the discussion. He was saying how much he didn't like his sensation, that the battery died too quickly, that the phone was getting very warm and that he was having wifi issues. The people that joined the discussion were supporting his claims by talking about their own experiences with the Evo 4g with sprint. I guess what I'm trying to say is that although we both believe that the general consumers don't notice these things, some actually do and people always compare their phone experiences with another phone they had. With that being said, and contrary to some beliefs, I like HTC but one cannot ignore the fact that they have QC issues and not address them.

---------- Post added at 02:55 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:31 PM ----------

@Hamdir where do I start...

Ok I'm gonna try to make this short and sweet. First of all, you have every right to be an HTC fan, loyalist, enthusiast whatever, it is your right and nobody can take that from you. If you've had great experiences with HTC than great for you. Aside the HTC sensation, my experience with HTC has been good.

Now, the only issue I have is that for some reason, folks don't wanna accept other people's point of view . Some folks have mentioned earlier in this thread that they have had some "issues" with their One X. It may not be an issue for you or me but it is for them and they are not wrong for addressing it, people should just have to accept someone else point of view. As far as the trolls, flamers and people that exaggerate, report them if you think it is necessary. But that's just how life is, people see things differently all the time, it is something no one here can change that's why I laugh behind my keyboard sometimes when I see people trying to convince others to buy this or that, as if they would get pay for it or get some type of commission.

One last thing, and very important I think, It's totally fine to be a loyalist to your brand, I'm a BIG time Sony play station fan, I will NEVER buy an Xbox for any reason over a playstation BUT, I acknowledge that the Xbox is a great video game console and that they have a great online service, even better than the psn maybe. It's all about accepting others choices and opinions.
[One (M7) General] Napoleon_PhoneApart:
Everyone wants to justify their purchase. 'Nuff said. :D
[One (M7) General] CocheseUGA:
Damn, now I have to cancel my preorder, as I chose the GS3 over the One X.
[One (M7) General] BarryH_GEG:
HTC, to deliver exceptionally good looking devices, uses complex designs and intricate parts. Samsung uses designs that are simple and easy to produce in large volumes. They also evolve their designs (SGS3<>N2<>SGS4) so there's no drastically new production techniques introduced which place QC at risk. Each new HTC design is equally complicated and drastically different from others that preceded it which adds productions risks. So beauty and evolution come at a price. ;)
[One (M7) General] Chillz88:
So since htc onex didnt sell too well, htc one also wont??..
[One (M7) General] hamdir:
Awesome I'm a PS fan as well, so let me ask you this, did you enjoy the endless ps3 media bashing during the first year? It turned out the better device after all ;)

Anyway back on topic, unless the rumors of almost finished but opted out metal s4 are true. I don't believe Samsung have the time to make amends on the n3, I also don't believe they are worried at all

---------- Post added at 07:47 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:44 PM ----------

That's kinda of exact but can we deny that even Samsung fans are getting sick of this pattern and rivals are trying to cash in on this? So boring your customers with the same old isn't really a good thing

If anybody it's Samsung who has both the cash and logistics to take bolder risks but maximizing profit wins every time
[One (M7) General] BarryH_GEG:
The DNA/Butterfly didn't really have any major QC issues to speak of. There was the occasional fitment of covers and levels of buttons issues that popped up but nothing that you could say was really a trend. But it was also (for HTC) a much simpler and traditional multi-piece design. Trying to cram the guts of a device in to a non-flexible uni-body as the assembly line's racing ahead probably isn't the easiest thing for low paid workers to get right 100% of the time. And that is something the One X and One have in common. Does anyone know of any other uni-body phones that are out? I can't think of any.

P.S. - The DNA/Butterfly didn't sell very well either so I don't think QC issues alone are what affect sales. I also don't think the masses are as anal retentive as we are.
[One (M7) General] barondebxl:
I didn't purchase the S3 right when it was released cause it was too expensive. But I did hear a lot of bashing when the psn network went down a couple of years ago. No excuse there, it was Sony's fault and responsibilities and a few of my psn friends went on and bought Xboxs. I prefer the ps3 and I think it's better than the Xbox but in reality its really a close one, really really close.

And yes I'm not sure if the article is accurate, like Barry mentioned earlier sammobile have made many "predictions" that turned out to be completely false just like they did about the Solux display and the design of the S4. I think it's too late for Samsung to scratch any note 3 design they already had planned and they certainly are not worried BUT I'm a 100% positive that the HTC One has the full attention of Samsung headquarters, and rightfully so as it is the best design on a phone I have seen.
[One (M7) General] BarryH_GEG:
I think the XDA crowd and people that follow mobile devices are more aware and bothered by Samsung's evolutionary designs. To someone coming from a SGS2 or Sensation now that their two-year contract is up the SGS4 and One are both "new."

Apple's designs are probably even more evolutionary than Samsung's but people accept it because their designs are almost a trademark and status symbol. Samsung's designs are kind of a trademark now too and strangers in strange places see me with my N2 and hold up their Samsung phone and say "look, I have one too." Not that I consider strangers waving their phones in my face a good thing. ;) Look at it this way, there's something to be said for evolutionary design from a branding perspective. M-B, BMW, and Audi have been using the same formula for years successfully. Remember when Chris Bangle screwed around with BMW's designs? It was front page news. As long as the masses keep buying in to Samsung's formula there's no incentive for them to change it. Who knows, maybe the One will be the device that teaches them a lesson. ;)
[One (M7) General] hamdir:
HTC considers the butterfly a success in Asia if I'm not mistaken

I am fine with evolutionary design if it's good to begin with, but Samsung design choices so far had been purely profit based

A screen not even protected by any sort of metal frame is a joke, easy to break from any angle, some of plastics and coating used in the sgs3 are simply inexcusable

Yes you can evolve something passionate aspiring taste and quality but not this (no debate on this, the entire media criticize the cheapness of expensive Samsung flagships)

Your example of German taste in car design and build is a lot more similar to HTC than it is Samsung ;)

in fact Korean car makers especially Kia realized this well, something Samsung still opposes

Im fully confident once Samsung go with fancier material and design no fan of their products will complain, in fact I expect rejoice
[One (M7) General] barondebxl:
That's true. There's no question that a change of design ( not a drastic change) and maybe a more rigid polycarbonate will be more than welcome among Samsung fan but also would please lots of folks who don't like their choice of material.

I love the S3, but It was very fragile. I dropped it once and the screen had a small crack from the top to the middle of the screen. I dropped my One Xl many many times, but it survived every drop. I absolutely love the polycarbonate of the One X, I think it's my favorite material for a phone. The S2 is another device that was indestructible for me, I dropped it so many times but it was so sturdy.
[One (M7) General] BarryH_GEG:
Here are my guesses at things that have Samsung worried in order of priority keeping in mind that the SGS4 at 80MM this year and N3 at about 20MM represent about 30% of the 350MM devices Samsung expects to sell in 2013.

Apple introducing lower-cost versions of the iPhone and iPad

Huawei, ZTE, Oppo, and Micromax stealing mid-range market share in emerging countries

Maintaining a consistent growth trajectory while the smartphone market is peaking

Protecting their margins

Running out of innovative things to do with Android so there's less differentiation between their phones and others

Ways of increasing on-device revenue and potentially cannibalizing ads and content revenue from Google and others

LG mimicking their h/w and s/w strategy

Anything HTC, Sony, and Motorola might do

Here's fascinating chart. Apple and Samsung both made $8B in profit in Q4 2012. Look how many fewer devices Apple had to sell in order to accomplish that. In order to meet investors’ expectations Samsung has to keep selling larger and larger amounts of devices. Similarly, if Apple pushes in to the lower end, they'll have to start selling more devices to generate the same amount of profit. So continuing their profit growth are the two biggest concerns for both Apple and Samsung. At 20MM units projected by HTC for One sales this year, that's 6% of the number of devices Samsung's committed to investors to sell. So of all the things they are worried about I'd venture that HTC and/or the One's success isn't even in the top 5.
[One (M7) General] thegregulator:
You should stop dropping phones....
[One (M7) General] barondebxl:
I guess so. But I handle phones everyday and I don't use cases so there are lots of chances for me to drop a phone.

---------- Post added at 04:23 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:20 PM ----------

@Barry, you may be right but nonetheless, I do believe that the HTC One has caught the attention of Samsung, especially because it has received so many positive reviews, in particular cause of the design. It would be foolish and arrogant of them not to acknowledge it :)
[One (M7) General] hamdir:
This is where I keep disagreeing with Barry It's wrong to base everything on sale, Samsung for their weight have a responsibility to push the envelope, I again give your the Kia/Hyundai example their sense of competitiveness pushing them to do better in term of design than it is purely sale

It's not cool when you are the biggest phone builder and the world is making fun of your designs and quality, at least image wise

By Barry's sale logic every food maker should go on the same commercial / quality path as fast food, sale over quality
[One (M7) General] BarryH_GEG:
But if it's not about sales, why does HTC exist and have shareholders? There are a couple of things any company, even those that make cookies, are measured against:

Market share (shows how you are doing competitively and should grow but never decline)

Revenue (should be growing consistently year-over-year unless profit grows more [a strategic decision])

Unit sales (Should be growing consistently year-over-year unless revenue/margins/profit increase on lower sales)

Margin (Should at least be stable year-over-year but ideally grow)

Profit (always growing year-over-year and is what matters most no matter how you get there)

HTC's not a philanthropy or a privately funded design studio that's only mission is to set new standards in mobile device beauty. They were the number one seller of smartphones with the second highest (Apple was first) revenue in 2009. Everything they did from that point forward was meant to accomplish the bullets listed above. They didn't consciously say "let's sell fewer phone and focus on design." Choices they made didn't work out very well. They haven't downsized since 2009 and are producing 1/3 of the sales which means their overhead is still geared toward larger volume which certainly makes me think they expect a come-back. I know their investors do. So to say those bullets don't matter to HTC or think that they aren't being judged against them isn't plausible. And I'm not saying they ever need to be as large as Samsung to be considered a success. But to not hit those bullets is in fact a failure for any company. Those bullets being held over your head every day is why it sucks to be in senior management. ;)
[One (M7) General] hamdir:
Everything you just said is great but you've missed my point

I'm blaming Samsung for not aspiring for more despite their success, sales and profit margins remain their biggest focus at the expense of consumers

If their price was lower I would accept this quality but asking for premium as the iPhone and building it much worse is not acceptable

Meanwhile HTC despite the main remains committed to its standards (so far)

There must be a better middle ground for both
[One (M7) General] BarryH_GEG:
That's a different story. Success is kind of funny. It's a lot easier aspiring to it than it is maintaining it. Being "number two" is great because you're constantly focusing on what you need to do to become number one. There's a lot of risk in being number one because you can get knocked off that pedestal very easily. Complacency, which is what you're describing, is one of the easiest ways to get knocked down. So far, Samsung's formula is working based on the bullets listed above. Each generation of devices they've released, while derivative looking, have had tons of advances so outside of design (which is subjective) I wouldn't call them complacent. The sales rate of the SGS4 is pegged a lot higher than the SGS3. If they make those projections the formula will live to fight another day. If they miss, lots of their billions will be sunk in to fixing the problem quickly. If BMW could survive Chris Bangle Samsung can survive uninspired design. At least for a while. ;)

P.S. – You’re spot on with the “at the expense of consumers” comment. But they, and only they, will be the ones to judge Samsung's forumla based on whether or not they open their wallets. And I promise to report back with any negative trends just as I've shared some of HTC's not good news. ;)
[One (M7) General] MadManMark:
Using plastic doesnt mean the build quality is bad. The Lumia 920 isn't metal, but you won't hear many complaints because the plastic is sturdy rather than flimsy and it doesnt suffer creaking when you hold the phone. All you can say is that use of plastic does not feel expensive