yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Xperia Z General] pandaball:
I don't think it will be their fault. They state very clearly in their documents, webpage and their product brochures that the Xperia Z is IP55/57, which even a cursory Google search will show that it will either withstand, water-wise:

or

I think you're mistaken over what the water resistance means. First, I don't really see how the classifications above are warranted as "accidental contact", given the test durations. You can drop your phone in the toilet bowl and it will be perfectly fine, water-wise. Using it in a shower or bath will not cause any problems either, since it conforms to IPX5/7. Immersing your phone deliberately into still water is perfectly fine, as per IPX7. I don't think any reasonable consumer will buy the device without even wondering what IP55/57 is, yet you're wondering yourself without checking what IPX5/7 really means at all. Perhaps *you* should study what the water resistance means.

source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IP_Code, and http://www.ce-mag.com/archive/06/ARG/bisenius.htm
[Xperia Z General] sacredsoul:
Sony advertised the Z with live models in a shower using the Z. Sony only warned against salty water. As long you close the ports and don't exceed the 30 mins, you'll be fine in the shower or the swimming pool.
[Xperia Z General] Ryland Johnson:
Hi,

Thanks for the reply.

I am well aware of what constitutes water resistance and the codification system used by Sony on this occasion. My post was one aimed at prevention and not to criticise the reader or the Xperia Z.

As you can see the post below yours is by a member here who mentions it is fine to swim with this mobile? I am not going to bore you with the dangers of taking this phone swimming, I merely wished to help and support, perhaps even prevent, some owners from causing themselves difficulties.

I am pleased you have read the small print and studied the mobiles realistic water resistance policy. Perhaps this small debate may encourage others to do the same.:good:

Again many thanks for the reply,

Kind regards.
[Xperia Z General] rudoska:
How about go and acro S? Are they water proof, or also water resistant?
[Xperia Z General] Akiainavas:
I hope you don't take my post as rude or anything - and it is not directed to you.

Sony provides all the specification you need. There's even a cossed-out picture of a swimming man with a phone in his hand on the first page of instructions manual... they clearly say what the phone will resist and what it won't resist. What you can do with it, or where you can take it. Basically, if you open your manual it says:

It CAN be submerged to 1m for 30 minutes

It WILL survive low pressure splashes of water

NO salt water, sea water etc as it might damage the covers

Covers MUST be closed firmly for anything above to apply

What's more to ask ? It basically covers it all...

And no, it's not resistant to "accidental" contact with water. You can actually submerge the phone, take a shower with it ( done it few times ;) ) or leave it in the aquarium for 30 minutes. As long as you closed the covers, didn't exceed 30 minutes or 1 meter requirement, and didn't splash it with high-pressure - your phone will not die, that's what IP certificate guarantees. You can't swim with it in the pool because of the chlorine - as Sony clearly said, salt or any chemicals in the water might break the rubber seals.

What i'm trying to say is: if somebody is too lazy to take a look at the manual, read the IP specifications etc. I don't think Sony should actually care about that. You can't "baby-proof" everything. Read, learn, understand - don't "just assume".

Good thread though, if it'll make people read and learn - i'm all thumbs up :)
[Xperia Z General] Akiainavas:
I get you. Watches are a completely different thing - most of them are advertised as "water resistant" or "water proof" to XXATM - but there's always a small little detail - most of them are NOT IP certified.

IP "Ingress Protection" certificate states the device has been tested to resist water's ingress up to certified conditions ( which in case of XZ are 1m of depth, 30 minutes of duration and low pressure ). I had some water resistant watches as well - one of them died - but none of them had the IP certificate, all this ATM water resistance rubbish was just empty advertising used by the manufacturer :(

But where did you see Sony advertising Xperia Z for swimming ? I only remember them showing you can pour water onto it to clean the dust and use it in the rain.

There was a case of shower use advertisement, but remember that it was T-Mobile who organised that, not Sony. I really don't know if Sony has ever advertised or recommended the use of XZ on the pool/while swimming.

PS. Sorry about your watch :(
[Xperia Z General] Ryland Johnson:
Thank you for the question.

I am afraid I can't give you an answer?:silly: I know there are certain industrial mobile phones that are rated with a water resistance of say 10M. They are not generally available to the public though. I also cant think to what end such a phone would be used? Certainly not for diving etc:rolleyes:

I don't know of any such device that would claim to be "water proof". Water proof means water proof under all conditions and circumstances. Not even the most advanced deep sea search submersible make such a claim. A mobile phone? Why would one need such a mobile? I cant think how it would be useable nor functional.

I am not qualified to help you really with your valid question. Maybe another poster could give you a knowledge based qualified answer?

Kind regards.
[Xperia Z General] Ryland Johnson:
Hiya,

Thank you for your commiserations regarding my watch. it was indeed a steep and expensive learning lesson-curve:eek:

I have NOT seen Sony advertise the use of the XZ for swimming. I have mentioned swimming in response to other posters comments only.

I have managed to write in one line what I am trying to convey. Sony has produced a mobile that is not adverse to accidental water contact but it is not an industrial phone specifically designed to come into contact with water? I guess domestic use V commercial use?

The adverts I have seen have been of the XZ sitting in a small bowl of water. With respect to us all I still think this will pass the wrong message to some users and that may prove expensive. I guess only time will tell.

Kind regards.
[Xperia Z General] parapaul:
I don't think it passes the wrong message at all. Right from launch, the XZ has clearly been advertised and marketed as IP57 resistant - and in every review I recall seeing, IP57 has been clearly explained. I'm even fairly sure it was explained on the display case in the local Carphone Warehouse too.

You say you don't know any man made product that is waterproof. How about a submarine?

That's one of the main reasons this phone only has the IP57 rating - to acheive the next level of water resistance (IP58) it must be able to withstand 'long term immersion to a specified pressure'. I would imagine someone fairly high up at Sony decided that it wouldn't be worth the extra time and effort to pressure test it for 24 hours at 100m, for example.

I've seen lots of videos already of people using the XZ video camera under water while swimming, and it works perfectly.

No doubt someone with more money than sense will decide to see just how deep it can be taken, and for how long. It won't be me though. I'm quite happy knowing I can safely use it with wet hands and if it's dirty, wipe it clean in the washing up bowl! :D
[Xperia Z General] Ryland Johnson:
Your final paragraph describes my sentiments exactly.

Unfortunately your reference to submarines being "water proof" is incorrect. A submarine is water resistant to a given depth depending on the hull design etc. Take any known submarine past its water resistant depth and it WILL implode like an eggshell. This is a classic example of water proof verses water resistant. They are not one and the same.

My other point regarding your kind reply would be to mention that you, being of sound mind and body, understand and accept the limitations of the XZ. You are not going to test the glass with a lump hammer as shown on Youtube nor test to see just how far one could take the mobile under water until the inevitable occurred, you also understand the IP system of test measurements and codes. So many of the public will not even read the literature given with the phone. Unfortunately manufacturers simply have to explain in the simplest of languages exactly what a given device can and cannot do to protect their customers and themselves

Just one other point to mention. With regard water resistant it must also be understood that water temperature will also play a large part in the equation. The body of the XZ is not excluded from temperature change. Come to mention it there are so many variable and parameters when debating this its the main reason I started this post. With all the respect I have for Sony and admiration for the XZ I do think its campaign of advertising the XZ as water resistant may back fire on Sony. It will be interesting to read the various forums over the coming months just to see who does what to 'test' their phone.:o We can bet there will be some dandies!:cool:

Thanks for the reply,

My best to you and yours.
[Xperia Z General] Egan:
IP-55 and IP-57 are well described in the IP Code Breakdown. You can shower with it, submerge it in upto 1m of water for 30 minutes (perhaps more but that's not guaranteed) and it protects against dust ingress but is not dust tight. That's it and that's what Sony markets. People who do not read the manual on this deserve a dead phone to be absolutely honest with you.
[Xperia Z General] searley:
Even diving watches are water resistant not water proof

My watch clearly says WR200 so water resistant to 200 meters

So there will NEVER be a water proof phone!

The main thing is most water damage to phones is accidental. ie dropping it in the toilet. Taking it in the bathroom. Getting caught in the rain

For most people they can go about normal life and not worry about this type of accidental damage
[Xperia Z General] Ryland Johnson:
Hiya,

I sincerely don't wish to upset you. If you read my post #7 you will see the watch you think can be taken to depths of 200m in fact cannot.

I know, don't tell me about it. Its a scandal and another one of those best kept secrets until you find your beloved watch has water inside it and the manufacturer tells you its your own fault. Don't set me off:confused: The watch you own is suitable for skin diving not sub aqua diving!

Back on topic, I agree entirely with your post. "For most people they can go about normal life and not worry about this type of accidental damage"

Bingo and Amen to that.

Regards.
[Xperia Z General] biffsmash:
Who gives a bloody crap. A glass is water proof unless you break it. This phone is water proof until it's not.

Why get hung up over nonsense. I've had my phone is all sorts of crap and it's still going and it's still water resistant or water proof so who gives a damn.

I'd risk the phone in the sea too as I very much doubt a quick dunk in sea water will do any damage to it but if it did who cares, I didn't follow the instructions in the manual which everyone can read.

Something is water proof until it's not. Resistant means it survives water getting in or resists it, proof means water doesn't get in or hurt it, at least in my eyes, it's the same blooming thing.

Close down this stupid thread.
[Xperia Z General] Ryland Johnson:
You appear to be ending this thread with the same ignorance you began it. Congratulations to you Sir .:good: Your attitude speaks volumes...I am pleased to write that most people will respect their phone and DO care about it. If you look after your tools they will look after you. It is EXACTLY your gung-ho attitude that prompted me to write this short article in the first place.

Not that you care but as a BTW sea water will damage the mobile as will the chemicals used in a swimming pool.

Wise up and respect your phone. What truly peeves me with people like you is not only don't you deserve to own such a nice device BUT when you damage it you will shout the loudest from the roof tops what a crap mobile it is.....:mad:

If you dislike the thread avoid it. It was written with genuine concern for genuine owners and has produced some decent debate, that is what a forum is for.

Behave yourself :fingers-crossed:
[Xperia Z General] benziii:
I'm not afraid of it being water damaged, as if it happens I will just go back and buy a new one (with a different colour to mix it up:laugh:).

I have tested it in the sink, submerged it several times, used it in the shower etc.

If it had failed very early on, I would maybe second-guess another purchase of the same phone again.

Make no mistake though, my 5 inch lump sleeps on feathers and does not get tossed around at all.

Not a dust particle nor scratch on it :)

People who have to open their pockets very wide to obtain one will most likely be a bit more cautious about water exposure.

The outright lazy ones who don't want to involve themselves and just thinks that everybody else should "take care of it" (you know the type)

are always the loudest crybaby.
[Xperia Z General] egzthunder1:
I strongly suggest that you take your attitude down a few notches... This thread has more purpose and reason at being in the General area than about half of the other ones currently open. It is a discussion about the device's hardware.

As for the OP's post, his point, which I believe was widely missed by many people who have replied here, was that the way in which the phone is marketed to people will lead them to think that the phone is "indestructible" of sorts. The intent of this is not to raise the flag on Sony having advertised the phone as such, but rather to try and raise awareness on those who took the message in a way not intended and now think that they are holding a bullet proof 5 inch shield, which is impervious to everything. Don't believe me? Just look at this video (around time marker 5:23)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=crgzS4F_nZA

The Sony employee himself throwing the device to the floor... did anyone mention the fact that the device has mechanical impact resistance level 0? (aka it does not protect against mechanical impacts).

I digress, the point of this thread (I think) is not to blame Sony per se or even to discuss the various parameters that revolve around water resistance. It is about being aware about the fact that taking the device for a swim is likely not a good idea and that the "rugged" features of the phone are for the "oh crap!" type of situations...

jm2c

Edit: To illustrate the above...

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=2226481

Edit2: The chemical/salt water attacks are bad for the seals. Salt water is not magically going to permeate through the screen. The little rubber things in the caps will get corroded right away with salt (unless, of course they are thoroughly cleaned immediately). This is why swimming in the ocean is not recommended. More than likely Chlorine will have a similar (and much faster) effect of these seals (depending on what elastomer is used for the seals (it might be a polyacrylate or FEPM based on poor sea water compatibility)
[Xperia Z General] DreadPirateDan:
I haven't seen any product ever stated as "water-proof", even watches. Ones rated for 200m depths still say "water-resistant" up to 200m (from what I have seen). Consumer laws are pretty tight in Australia so maybe marketing terms have to be adjusted though.

I haven't once seen Sony use anything but water resistant to describe it. Nor have they shown footage exaggerating or misleading it's water resistance.

If people are too stupid to distinguish the difference between the terms for them selves, and use a little common sense, then perhaps they shouldn't have a "smart" phone ;)

Regarding the swimming thing, a telco here put out a video of their rep "falling" into a pool and demonstrated that the phone will be ok. Then went on to use the phone proving that yes it was fine. So if you accidentally jumped in with it would it be fine? Most likely. Should you deliberately do swimming with it? Absolutely not. Most pools are well over 1m depth so straight off the bat it shouldn't be in there
[Xperia Z General] Ryland Johnson:
Thank you for this post. You have clearly grasped my intentions and understood the true motive for opening this thread.

It is early days yet BUT lets see how many customers harm their mobiles by not understanding the parameters where the XZ can and CANNOT be used. The XZ is very much a domestic mobile and it will take

some

contact with water. Providing we all understand that my intentions have been achieved .:good:

Kind regards.
[Xperia Z General] Lembo:
Well I with you on this Ryland.

The iMax cinema has a huge 100 foot advertisement of the Z plunging into water. It does concern me how they have displayed this feature.

I sure with IPX7 testing the phone is gently lowered into water at that depth without any motion like swimming that I'm sure the force would exceed it's IPX5 specification.

But I'm sure Sony (lawyers) has done their homework for any slip ups.

I'll keep mine dry and hopefully I won't need to put it to the test. :)
[Xperia Z General] gm007:
Many peoples bought the phone cause it has waterproof capability or whatever,but i think 5% will throw it into water :D
[Xperia Z General] benziii:
The swimming pool test by those asian kids that I'm guessing nearly everyone on here has seen by now clearly shows in the beginng it being tossed in the pool. Of course with a few more thorough tests some might come out unscathed, while some dead.

I'm purely speculating, but as long as you don't hose it with wanton destruction in mind, I reckon it will stand its ground.

I think the time spent immersed is the key factor here,

Not that 31 min is fatal, but maybe something like 1h 30 min would be enough for the water to seep inside.

Let's use an example here.

A weight of sorts gets made to support a maximum load of say 500kg, do they make it so it can handle exactly 500kg, or with a reasonable margin?

I would never believe Sony to be so shortsighted that they'd make it just managing what they boast so heavily.

Hiding behind loopholes would not exactly create great sales ahead if the two or so first batches all seemed to drown at the touch of moisture.

Or do they think nobody dares to shove something that expensive under water?

ALOT of independet reviewers and tech sites have been thoroughly testing devices for quite some years now.

This flaw would be uncovered pretty quickly and would be devastating for sales, considering there's no question this is its signature capability.

In conclusion, I'm not making it out to be indestructible or anything like that, but:

If you end up behind rent getting this smartphone, you should first read these xda threads which concern this matter / turn to your manual / read up on some technical terms etc. then make a risk assessment for yourself.

Over and out
[Xperia Z General] egzthunder1:
Couple of posts removed... Next time I have to be here in quality of admin, I will start shelling out paid vacations to bansville...

Sent from under a stream of running water with an Xperia Z
[Xperia Z General] wawyed:
The mechanical impact resistance rating is no longer being used hence there isn't any rating to define it.
[Xperia Z General] egzthunder1:
Not entirely true. It was replaced by IK ratings and dropped from IPX. The testing is still there, but it now falls under a different standard....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EN_62262

http://www.nema.org/Standards/ComplimentaryDocuments/ANSI-IEC-60529.pdf

This last one is a bit older but look at the last page. The scope of the test certainly covers mechanical impact as well...
[Xperia Z General] wawyed:
I beg your pardon then I was referring to IP ratings. The thing is a smartphone is something fragile, it's like a laptop. It's not meant to be thrown even though companies try to make it as resistant as possible without comprising it's size. I guess that's why hard cases are for.
[Xperia Z General] egzthunder1:
Right. However, as I said, these standards still exist as they are applied to things like military grade electronics (ie radios, etc) and other end consumer electronics that need to feel a little more "loved" :)
[Xperia Z General] Ryland Johnson:
Interesting to note that the threads have started here with XZ owners doing the most absurd things with their phone to "Test it". We have people who drop hammers on it, place it into a pot of hot Thai soup, take it in the shower, take it in the bath, take it swimming to take underwater pictures and now some chap has taken one after swimming into a sauna and has complained that he has condensation in the camera...SURPRISE.

I have written it over and over again that this lovely device is water resistant to a given code and that is not a licence to see this phone as water proof.

Don't you just love it when some owners 'test' their phones:( I mean what is THE first thing we all do when we purchase a brand new car? We test it right? We drive the car into the first brick wall we find to see if the air bags deploy and the crumple zones, crumple?:rolleyes:

I have now read on two other forums posts from owners who have damaged their ZX by deliberately exposing them to water in some absurd way. This will continue as long as owners have more money than sense.

I see CAT are introducing a new industrial mobile. Looks like a house brick BUT will take a far amount of knocking about. When we compare the design of the XZ with the new CAT they are simply polls apart. The CAT is designed to take some rough treatment, the XZ is a domestic mobile.

It will be interesting, though sad, to read what some owner does next with the ZX. Maybe we could start a list of truly silly things not to do with the XZ knowing out there are morons who will do it.:cool: Shall I start the list?

1) Try to scratch the glass with a diamond cutter.

2) drive over the XZ in a 4X4

3) Take it sub aqua diving to around 10ATM's

4) cook it when we cook a pizza in the oven.

5) Anyone?:p
[Xperia Z General] jonmorris:
The CAT phone actually states it is water proof, not resistant (although the only ad I've seen is a trade ad from a distributor).
[Xperia Z General] Ryland Johnson:
CAT, like Sony with the XZ, make no such claims. Others may do 'on their behalf'. The manufacturers certainly do not.
[Xperia Z General] RoberM:
Sony shows the phone beeing rinsed with water in their TV ads, they also shows the phone beeing submerged in a small fish tank in posters and alike, the user manual also states this CAN be done, and not necessarily by accident, so... ¿where the f*ck is the misleading?

Everybody knows it is not the same to clean the phone behind running water than swim with it in a 5 meters depth pool. And for people not old enough to know this by common sense, they also explain it in the user's manual.

It has been more than two months since the launch of this phone, and i have only read one person having his phone damaged by water, and it was because he forgot to close one of the flaps. You all know how much noise a couple of people with one problem like this would do, and surprisingly there is no noise about phones damaged by water when following user manual and common sense. This leads me to think that in fact, there is no misleading coming from Sony in this respect.
[Xperia Z General] AntonyStark:
I thought this was too obvious to say.
[Xperia Z General] Ryland Johnson:
Have you not yet read the thread here where a poster wrote he has moisture in his XZ camera lens after taking it swimming and then in the sauna?

This is not a one off either, see Youtube for others who have done this sort of thing. Some guy here actually put an XZ into his Thai soup cook pot?

Not every owner shares your level of intelligence nor common sense. I would question just how many owners have even read the instruction booklet that comes with the mobile. So many, in fact numerous, posters on this very site(even today!) Write about the XZ being waterproof rather than

water resistant

and I have only read one post where this has been pointed out.

Regards