yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Xperia Z General] Ironmadan:
Quite honestly why would a commercial go out of the way to state what defines water resistant. If I was in place of SONY and I had to sell my device, I'd probably follow the same strategy. They are not lying about anything as far as documentation and the TV commercials are concerned. They have clearly stated in their official manuals about its water resistant properties and the limits to be followed. Heck, I bet no one can sue them if they happen to damage their Z by not understanding the limitations. So if anyone does manage to damage his device by doing something extreme, SONY wins. They sold the device, they clearly stated the limits of the water resistance. As long the ads don't show a guy snorkeling with his Z underwater in sea, i'm pretty sure it's all good. I always research any product or service thoroughly before I decide to purchase/use it. Therefore I think anyone who misunderstands the commercial and makes his own assumptions about its water-resistance definitely failed himself.
[Xperia Z General] Ryland Johnson:
I agree with every word you write, period.

Can you explain to me though why so many posters on this very forum write that the XZ is ...WATER PROOF....You understand the difference yet we now read about owners taking them swimming then into the sauna? Accept it or not many owners think the XZ is indeed water proof and have little idea what limited water resistance means.

There is a 'professional' reviewer on Trusted Reviews that wrote a rebuff to the original review. This second article makes mistakes regarding the XZ, the author calls the factory fitted screen anti shatter sheet as a screen protector plus he even refers to the XZ as water proof. The rest of his comments are opinion based and unprofessional. In my opinion he has abused his place on Trusted reviews to make an unwarranted attack upon the Sony XZ. Take a look yourself.
[Xperia Z General] Ironmadan:
Hmm that's right fair enough....It is a bit of a semantics issue I guess. I assume people do not think much into water resistance and waterproof, they might think it's one and the same. As far as a professional review goes that is seriously risky, as most people tend to make judgments based on website reviews. I really do hope people read up on the manuals provided with the phone. You're definitely right about people taking it into saunas and then complaining about it here. Not everyone is careful though right? I mean I've seen people treat their S3's and Iphones like dirt and I've seen people still taking care of their old Nokias!
[Xperia Z General] rockysiccion:
Very useless page.

Are you trying to sell insurance on phone?

1st of all people buy the xperia z because its water resistant and all of them know what resistant means. If not im sure they will chose htc one.

Dont tell people that they lack common sense because they test the phone to their joy. I my self try my xperia z for 1 hour of snorkeling and 1 hour fly board and nothin happened!

So please if you have problem how the xperia z is marketed. Then go to sony and apply for a postion in marketing then do it your self.

Get a life.
[Xperia Z General] Ryland Johnson:
Classic post, absolute gem. Thank you for demonstrating EXACTLY why I made my post. I am in your debit sir .:good:

Regards
[Xperia Z General] decadan1977:
Take a look around. There are dumbasses with Cars Motorbikes Guns I'm sure a few have tanks lol. So having a dumbass with an Xperia z ain't all that dangerous. So what if they can read the bloody manual. So what if they don't understand the difference between resistant and proof. No amount of reinforcing your argument is going to change that. Nice try I will admit, you mean well. But let the dumbass people put there XZ's in whatever they desire. At least it makes great comedy for us who take great care of our phones.
[Xperia Z General] Ryland Johnson:
You are, of course, painfully correct. Shame as we should all be able to learn from each others mistakes. In my case I damaged a VERY expensive watch many years ago and have had war with a phone company. Had I been advised prior to my actions I would not have nearly spoiled a watch and spent a fortune on repair.

I guess you are right though, it was arrogant of me to open this post. I just wanted to help.

Pleased you look after your property and thanks for the reply .:good:

Regards
[Xperia Z General] decadan1977:
Most definitely wouldn't say your arrogant. And defo wouldn't say I'm correct. Was just my opinion. You make valid points but as I said. If a dumbass is going to put his phone in pots of soup. Then don't think anyone is going to stop them. You done good.
[Xperia Z General] RoChinu:
The phone is definitely water resistant, Sony doesn't show people swimming with it and never claimed it to be waterproof. Their adverts and videos don't show any excessive use of water on the phone. What they showed was the Z being half submerged in a glass of still water, a guy using it in the rain and another guy pouring water over it.

Sony CLEARLY claims it to be water resistant to a certain degree which is 1 meter of depth for 30 minutes. As Sony doesn't want any trouble, the device obviously is able to withstand more than claimed. They aren't idiots and know tech reviewers and customers will try out their claims, hence, deciding a definite safe point and promote the product as such, nothing more nothing less. Now don't try to push those limits after reading my post since I don't want to be accountable and responsible for you having a water damaged device. All I'm saying is that people who take it to the swimming pool and use it to make underwater pics and vids are simply retarded. Sony has quite a strong foot if ever accused by any faulty human being. Their official site says water and dust resistant, the official manuals as well.

Take care of your phone and I bet it will do the same to you.

Their only claim which might not have been wise is to say the device is as tough as metal.
[Xperia Z General] Ryland Johnson:
Has not taken long to see the inevitable water damaged phone threads appearing. Shame and very sad.

I am now reading threads where some members are deliberately misusing the XZ as an underwater camera.

PLEASE READ THE MANUAL. Save yourself loads of agro', time and expense.

Regards.
[Xperia Z General] gifted:
Just one question regarding waterproof claims (maybe little OT...).

How do you explain Olympus' claims on TG-2 - Waterproof up to 15m?
[Xperia Z General] Ryland Johnson:
The Olympus TG=2

................................

NEW

01/08/2013

Three new TOUGH cameras push limits to the extreme

The Olympus TOUGH range just got a little bit TOUGHER with the arrival of the new TG-2, TG-830 and TG-630 models – all boasting new levels of waterproof, dustproof, freezeproof and crushproof protection on the outside to withstand the harshest conditions. But that’s not all: These tough guys are also optimised with powerful zoom lenses and high-performance iHS technologies both for shooting stills and movies in Full HD quality. And there’s a host of impressive features in store including multi-recording, high-speed movies, super macro zoom and GPS – all designed to let you capture even more of the action on your next adventure!

.................................

I have zero idea why such a brand as Olympus would use the term "water proof", Water proof to xx depth means by its very nature it is not 'water PROOF. Water proof by definition means it will not allow water to enter under any circumstances, being for example, depth, temperature, force of water across a given surface of the object etc. Not even submarines are 'water proof' and to use that term is incorrect and can place Olympus in all sorts of difficulties.

Look, Sony have shown the XZ being placed into a bowl of water then taken out then placed back in. I wrote here when I fist saw that that Sony where asking for trouble. Sony should have market the product as water resistant to accidental contact with some water rather than throw a set of technical definitions that will mean zero to most of their customer base.

I cant answer for Olympus either. Olympus actually use the term "water proof" BUT then give a depth. Imagine the scenario where a purchaser takes the camera under water to a depth of 'only' 5M but the camera lets water in. We all know what the Olympus agent will say...He will insist we took the camera past its safe water resistant level of 15M, one is then left with your word against theirs. Guess who is going to win.

The Olympus is not marketed as a divers camera but a "Tough camera" To me this could cause all sorts of bother BUT its up to the buyer to make of these devices as they will.

In terms of the Sony XZ we are seeing them boiled in soup, taken into the sea, swimming pools, showers, sauna and hosed down. Some of the responsibility for this user behaviour must lie with the way Sony has market the mobile. End of the day its not going to be Sony who end up with a damaged phone it will be the customer who has abused it thinking the device is more than it is. As for the Olympus......good luck with that.

Regards

.
[Xperia Z General] galaxys2Tav:
Just want to throw in my opinion on this as I have a nice read of this thread and there are some points I agree and disagree on.

Firstly I understand the difference between "water resistant" & "water proof", but correct me if I'm wrong but nothing is water proof as one way or another over time water works it's way through something that would be deemed to be water proof?

Secondly in my opinion Sony could have explained what is deemed safe more clearly. Yes in there adds they pour water over it, and the also had it submerged in a jug. But it does say don't exceed the limits. This brings me onto my third point!

If your crazy enough to drive over, boil, cover it I chocolate, hit it with a hammer. Then be my guest! People who have read the paper work that came with the phone (which I haven't) and submerged it have obviously put 2 + 2 together and got 5.

The videos I have seen on YouTube are all people that have done this before and not just to the XZ. They do this for views as everyone else posts videos on YouTube. If you were to submerge your phone for more than 30mins and beyond 1m then you do it off your own back.

I haven't done it and was deciding whether or not to try it but it would be off my own back and if I didn't have the ports covered it's my own fault. I as everyone else knows water and electronics don't mix, but this is where human curiosity comes in ;)

Just my thoughts on things and don't want to cause any bad feeling hope you all have fun whether you take it swimming or not
[Xperia Z General] wyterabitt:
That’s not what it means in general, because there is nothing in the universe that would fit that definition - EVERYTHING will fail. It may take 30 minutes; it may take 30,000 years but it will happen. So water proof does not exist in your definition. Waterproof always has limits, and that is why it is perfectly reasonably to call the Z waterproof up the limitations stated.

The differences you are talking about are not real, they are a product of the need to standardise and quantify specific meanings in industries etc (science is a good example of where this is extremely important). In these instances (and only these) it can be important to specify meanings to water resistant and water proof and that is fine. For the general public this is not needed, so what you are saying is mostly pointless in my opinion. If someone says it is water proof, and they understand the limitations, they are perfectly correct regardless of what you think.
[Xperia Z General] electric0ant:
Seriously OP you're just beating a dead horse with this whole continuous "it's water resistant, not water proof" lecture.

The VAST majority of consumers see this to mean the same thing, and Sony clearly has outlined the limits of its claims.

Your repeated posts about this is about just as useful as if you keep going into shops and telling everyone that lbs and kg is technically not a measure of weight and is actually a measure of mass.

Just let this go, it is a technicality, the general population has their own impression of what water-resistant means and its not likely to change.
[Xperia Z General] kingvortex:
That wasn't the only point of this thread though. Ryland was saying that Sony have made a mistake with the marketing of this device and he is correct.

How many people are posting here about 'cleaning' the phone regularly under running water? Is that necessary? Whose phone gets that dirty? Probably nobody's, but they think it's fine to submerge the phone regularly for no real reason, when a cloth would achieve the same result. That is down to the misleading advertising from Sony.

Already there are a few topics where people have damaged their phones due to 'testing' or 'cleaning' them and these will only increase because people too readily believe advertising claims nowadays and refuse to actually read the manual for the device.

What would you rather believe? The interpretation of an advertising executive with no technical knowledge, whose only remit is to drive sales, or the interpretation of the person who wrote the manual for Sony that would have had to triple check everything to make sure no false claims are made before including it?
[Xperia Z General] AntonyStark:
No one has Damaged their phone doing the two things Sony showed.
[Xperia Z General] kingvortex:
......

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=2263155

That was from only a cursory glance down the list of threads in this forum.

"The phone is faulty!", you may say, but I will counter with the fact that he would still have a working phone right now if he had not deliberately put it under running water.
[Xperia Z General] xchasa:
If all seals were working then there wouldn't be a problem.

Sure there will be some units that have defects,(seals) but that happens in life with anything.

I can build a block of 25 apartments and 24 may be dry and cosy. But 1 might have a waterleak after a storm.

Same with watches, as the Op has described(did you know an Omega Seamaster 300m DIVERS watch can be compromised in a shower if the crown is not fully tightened? I do :( ) and even the Xperia Z.....

Most people that use their phone to the manual(1 meter and 30 mins with all ports securely sealed) will have NO issue!

If you forget to check all flaps are sealed then it's the users fault. Not Sony...

If it's a build defect like in the thread you linked, then they will replace it. Like they did:thumbup:

Same thing if a client forgets to close their skylight before a storm really. Not my fault.

But if it's a broken tile, then I have to resolve.

I even bet some users will go deeper with no issues:D
[Xperia Z General] kingvortex:
We could go round in circles arguing this all day and not get anywhere.

The facts are that the ads overstate the water/dust resistance and people would rather blindly follow that than look after their expensive device or shock, horror, read the manual.

Yes, most people will get away with dunking/rinsing their phones as it's likely that the actual protection exceeds the given IP ratings, but it's the odd few that do destroy their phones that are at issue here, as that is solely caused by the misleading advertising.

People can do what they want with their own device. What annoys me is people giving out incorrect/downright dangerous advice to questions regarding the IP rating (such as stating that taking it in the sea or hot water is fine) . That is risking the destruction of somebody else's device, not their own. ;)
[Xperia Z General] Akiainavas:
Actually if you read that thread you'd notice that his phone had a manufacturing defect - some kind of crack between the sides of the phone - the water leaked through there while all the covers were sealed and none of them leaked.

They replaced his phone with no questions asked. I'd say it's a good thing this happened - otherwise he'd never know his phone is faulty and should have never been sold in the first place.
[Xperia Z General] kingvortex:
If you read my post, you will see that I acknowledge that the phone is faulty. The fact remains that if he hadn't put it under running water, it would still be working. If it had got accidentally covered in water and damaged later on, the warranty would have still been good.

The question remains, why are people tempting fate by putting a £500 phone under running water, IP rating or not? A slightly misaligned port cover would be all it would take to both destroy the phone and invalidate the warranty in one go. Is it worth the risk?

Anyway, like I said, my issue is mainly with people here advising others that it's fine to do stupid things with their phones. Do what you want with your own property, just don't give out the wrong advice. ;)
[Xperia Z General] Akiainavas:
I get you mate, and I agree. It's fun to try it once or twice, but honestly - waterproof or not, just keep your electronics away from water if there's no need for that. Electronics do not like water, IP rated or not ;)
[Xperia Z General] AntonyStark:
It's all about risk. Yes having a water resistant phone brings a new risk, you are not going out of your way to keep it out of water. However risk takers are risk takers! it has NOTHING to do with the Marketing, those people take what ever risk is going. If they don't have cases cos the glass is toughened, you don't even need to show them how tough and what the limits are, they are doing it.

Extreme phone owners, they like it it's part of having a phone/watch/camera whatever.

Anyone else who damages their phone did something wrong, it's not because Sony washed it in an Advert.
[Xperia Z General] kingvortex:
Fine, but they should not advise others that it's fine to exceed the limits that Sony has laid down in writing in the manual. Forget the advertising.

Anyone with sense should know that most manufacturers will do anything to wriggle out of a warranty claim, so why give them a chance to invalidate said warranty?

In the end, I guess it comes down to Sense Vs. Senseless :D
[Xperia Z General] xchasa:
People can do what they want with the device.

They are doing just that and reporting their findings and pics/videos.

Seems some of you feel the need to do what others do??

Mate. I have had the phone for 5 weeks and it hasn't touched freshwater let alone salt water. Even though lots of people have with absolutely no issues I might add.

I made my own choice not to. :rolleyes:
[Xperia Z General] Ryland Johnson:
Spot on and our points are being verified every day with the growing post count here of owners who are damaging their mobile.

Kind regards
[Xperia Z General] Ryland Johnson:
No confrontation from me. I read every day on some forum or another that owners of the SXZ are harming their mobiles. Most of this is customer abuse there is a large and significant BUT to this though. I suggest the way Sony market this mobile does give the impression its more an industrial type mobile that is made to be used in wet conditions rather than the water resistance being a safety factor , or insurance, only.

Regards
[Xperia Z General] AntonyStark:
If a guy swims and take pictures under water you can't say 'Sony tricked you, it can't be done! Stop!' when he's already done it and Sony didn't even show that.

Everything is waterproof until the water gets in it, just relax, personally I didn't think past dropping it in the bath and getting splashed by the pool, but I'm not a risk taker, and Sony Adverts cannot make you into one.
[Xperia Z General] kingvortex:
That wasn't my point.

People are asking if it is OK to go in the sea etc and some users here are telling them that it is, when it is clearly not if you read the literature.

Like I said, do what you want with your own device, just stop with the patently wrong 'advice' :D (Not aimed specifically at you before you think that)
[Xperia Z General] Ryland Johnson:
It has part to do with the marketing. Again I am NOT looking for a row and certainly not in any way, shaper or form trolling. No sooner I saw the Sony adverts for this mobile I knew a decent number of customers would identify the tiny amount of water resistance this mobile has as a licence to abuse it.

BINGO, we see threads where owners place the phone in the shower, I will return to the dangers of that later, placing the phone in hot soup, a sauna, swimming pool, the sea and even snorkelling! Any one tried the washing machine test yet? That was a joke BTW please don't!

Sony show the phone being placed into a water bowl, PLACED, this means zero force of water across the surfaces of the phone it pure slow careful immersion. Second add shows a chap using his bike flask to run water over part of the phone. This is not fully immersed and the pressure of passing water across a mobile should, in theory, be no problem.

Here are some of the problems.

Carefully immersing

the mobile in water to a depth of 1,5M for up to 30 minuets should be fine, it is rated according to an industry standard to take that.

Problem is this is

still water

, water that is not passing force over the working surfaces of the phone. Now place the phone in any depth of water, just .5M and violently shake said phone and due to the force of water being exponentially increased BY MOVEMENT and the phone may well fail. It is not JUST a question of pressure due to depth but pressure of water due to movement.

For a respectable brand like Sony to use marketing like that is, in only my opinion, rather irresponsible. Proof is just look what some owners are doing with the phone, taking underwater pictures in a swimming pool, this is not a good idea for several reasons and the manual states the phone should not be taken into a swimming pool, Chemicals will-may damage the seals over time just as the sea eventually destroys most things ever used in it over time.

Its a mobile phone nothing more nothing less. There are industrial phones that are specifically designed to take a hard life, CAT has just introduced a new one, looks like a house brick and may be nearly as tough. lol

I am no smart arse, the only way I found out about this science is through learning my lesson many years ago with a very very expensive wrist watch. I collect watches and the standards used , or should I write abused, by the watch industry are a scandal. I have published here their criteria several times so wont bore again by doing the same in this post.
[Xperia Z General] pandaball:
I don't believe that Sony's advertisements are misleading, based on what you've mentioned. As you've said, they show people placing their phones lightly in water. The message implicit in this is that placing your phone in water is safe, which it is as per IP Code. However, if people want to extrapolate that into dunking their phone in water, the sea, hot soup etc, that is their problem since there is no basis for anyone to claim that Sony is condoning these actions. They certainly do not advertise their phones being violently shaken about in water. The key thing here is, Sony has delineated what is safe. If users want to go beyond that, break a leg. It's not Sony's fault if users' foolishness cause them to destroy their phones, especially when Sony has not implicitly or explicitly shown that doing dumb things with their phones is safe.

EDIT: See http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Pp7nDmb5K4 for example (0:46 onwards), http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWysHOjl95E (1:16 onwards) for their TV ads. Water is poured onto the Xperia Z, so as I've mentioned above, the implicit message is that you can do that too and it should be safe. They don't quite advertise doing the stupid things that people do with their XZs.