yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Galaxy S 4 General] BarryH_GEG:
It's a bit early to draw any final conclusions. All the SGS4's at the launch event are pre-production and Samsung wouldn't even tell the media whether they were Octa or S-600. The pics from China are all from dual SIM devices destined for China Mobile and who knows what state of development those phones are in. The 4MP camera in the One is going to suffer from lack of detail when content is viewed off the device. It'll do better in low light though. The SGS4's camera will do better in terms of detail and noise suppresion.

Here's what GSMArena said about the One's camera:

"Unlike most of its competitors, the HTC One bets on fewer, but bigger size pixels on its image sensor, rather than many tiny ones. In theory this should allow it to shoot photos that have less digital noise and more dynamic range. But of course, you have got to remember that when you downsize a say, 13MP photo down to 4MP it also visibly decreases the digital noise.

The first shot would be difficult even for a DSLR. In the MWC showroom are full of brightly lit company booths with patches of dim light in-between them. The Optimus G Pro [13MP] photos have a lot more noise in them, while HTC One photos have a slight grain, but not too bad considering how dark the scene was.The One developed the shadows better (look at the ceiling), though the highlights are overexposed. Still, the HTC One has an advantage in dynamic range. Obviously, we need to do more testing back in the office where we have more time and phones on hand to compare the HTC One against.

What we can say right now is that the technology shows a lot of promise - it keeps noise relatively low and the detail per pixel is pretty good. The problem is that there aren't a lot of pixels to go around, which puts a hard physical limit on the smallest detail that the HTC One camera can resolve. As we saw, this could cause problems with things like text. The dynamic range isn't much better than that of traditional cameraphones either, so the large pixels didn't help too much here. At the end of the day, it depends on what you want to do with the photos. Most high-res 27" computer monitors are at under 4MP resolution and HDTVs are at 2MP, so the resolution HTC One photos is okay. But if you want to print out photos or crop into a smaller detail, 4MP may start to feel pretty tight around the neck."​

Here's what they said about the Xpreria Z. Samsung most likely will use the same Exmor RS sensor in the SGS4 with Samsung doing better at drivers and s/w than Sony.

"The Sony Xperia Z challenges the best shooters in town and you can head over to our Photo quality comparison tool to see how it did. It did excellently on the first two charts, taking advantage of the superior resolution of its sensor to comfortably beat the 8MP sensor. Once we come to a more real-life scenario (third poster), the noise reduction takes its toll and the Xperia Z loses its advantage."​

GSMArena just posted some comparison pics between the XZ and One in better controlled conditions than a trade show floor.

http://blog.gsmarena.com/htc-one-arrives-at-the-office-we-snap-some-camera-samples/
[Galaxy S 4 General] stretched:
Were those balanced or all default? The one looks WAY too red. Skin tones are almost correct on the S4 but they look a little washed out.
[Galaxy S 4 General] GGXtreme:
Exactly. People are going to like the punchiness of the One's images, but it's honestly oversaturated and smeared compared to the S4's cleaner and more balanced image. I don't see the One having any real advantage aside from low-light performance, and even there the aggressive noise reduction results in a disappointing image that barely bests an iPhone. When you scale down a 13MP image to 4MP, it almost completely overcomes its noise disadvantage.
[Galaxy S 4 General] stretched:
Plus I'm sure as it gets in the hand of millions especially xda devs, the cam software can get an update.
[Galaxy S 4 General] BarryH_GEG:
Here are the comparison pics between a One and Xperia Z. The SGS4's most likely using the same Exmor RS sensor as Samsung's used Sony camera sensors previously. Samsung does a better job with s/w and drivers so I'd expect the SGS4 to perform better than the XZ and certainly no worse. The One's are in 16:9 format.
[Galaxy S 4 General] MohinderJaBardi:
Im all for HTC here. The red is from the room he is in and the type of lighting the HTC just picks it up better.
[Galaxy S 4 General] Puzzlegal:
Wow, the color balance is different. Which one is more accurate? Can they be adjusted?
[Galaxy S 4 General] BarryH_GEG:
I think most of the One's pics are underexposed and the low light pic (third from the top) is overexposed. GSMArena will do a bunch of standardized tests comparing both phones that'll make it easier to see which performs best (4MP with bigger pixels or 13MP with finer pixels) under different conditions. Software tuning and drivers can make a huge difference so the XZ comparison is really only to demonstrate the Exmor RS sensor.
[Galaxy S 4 General] uvaman:
We will have to wait final versions def before judging.
[Galaxy S 4 General] hot_spare:
A drunk person will have steadier hand.

Why would someone reduce the sizes like that? No originals?
[Galaxy S 4 General] slannmage:
Well every review site saying the HTC one camera is junk, I'm going to believe them, The Verge didn't like it at all...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rD_lr9XGOGc

Though no Xperia z there to compare to.

The One's pictures are so noisy on all sites I see apart from low light shots :\
[Galaxy S 4 General] bwin999:
The Ultrapixel camera just a marketing strategy
[Galaxy S 4 General] GGXtreme:
I honestly had high hopes for the One's camera after the Optimus G disappointed with its 13MP camera, but I'm just not seeing the results I hoped. There almost seems to be an advantage to the One's pics in dynamic range, but further inspection shows that overexposure and inaccurate color balance are throwing off the comparison. Even with Sony's disappointing image processing, the images are brighter without being as blown out and more detail is apparent. Downsample the image to 4MP and the Sony sensor seems to have less noise than the One's camera in many shots.
[Galaxy S 4 General] BarryH_GEG:
Anyone remember "ImageSense" from last year's HTC marketing materials?

Engadget - "We were able to get our own first hand look at the HTC One series at Mobile World Congress and all the coverage is linked to below. HTC was proud to announce that not only are the phones awesome, built extremely well, trimmed down and run fast with HTC Sense, but they’ve also developed a new technology called ImageSense. HTC has actually added a separate processing core for the camera alone. So a dual-core phone will actually have three cores."​

I had a Teg3 One X that I was very happy with overall but its camera was, without question, its worst feature. The noise was hard to be believed.

Here's a pic that looks fine when displayed at lower resolution (500x282)

Look at this crop at from the same pic at 3264 x 1840

That's why I want to see the results of Anandtech or GSMArena's standardized tests before getting excited about either HTC or Samsung's new camera tech.
[Galaxy S 4 General] Squirrel1620:
Looks like the one is doing very well in low light :D and iphone has always been praised for low light performance
[Galaxy S 4 General] hung2900:
1. Outdoor pics

- a bit wash out and over exposed on One, but the detail and noise level are good compared to other samples I saw before. However, look much sharper on iPhone, good color but a bit over saturated (the wall)

2. Low light pics: One is wayyyy better, but actually not very impressive. Under lowish light there ia still a lot of noise.
[Galaxy S 4 General] mang0:
I don't seem to understand what you're saying..
[Galaxy S 4 General] richyb86:
Found the iPhone 4s pic comparison

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?p=39807134
[Galaxy S 4 General] Hazerd:
If realy got to hand this to HTC One, better colors, less noise.
[Galaxy S 4 General] FinancialWar:
^ seriously.

These ridiculous signatures need to stop. It's very distracting.
[Galaxy S 4 General] Hel10s:
Uhm, i think galaxy s4 are awesome, but in this photos htc looks more good
[Galaxy S 4 General] yahyoh:
i have no problem with low light on my N2 :D

:cool:
[Galaxy S 4 General] skivnit:
S4 > everything else, in every department except for the design of course. Look at the gsmarena reviews comparing the quad core version vs with recent flagships , samsung is way ahead in the hardware department.

Swyped from another galaxy
[Galaxy S 4 General] Squirrel1620:
Yeah but I can't blindly buy a high dollar device based on reviews. I can go on YouTube right now and find a review that says the one is better,then find one that says the s4 is. I'll have to wait to try both.

If you just buy the s4 you will never know if the one is better for your needs.
[Galaxy S 4 General] onlinejobwork:
Yes agree HTC look sharper and S4 is bit blurry
[Galaxy S 4 General] boodies:
here's a great comparison for the day , thanks go gsmarena.
[Galaxy S 4 General] onlinejobwork:
The photo taken from HTC one by gsmarena is just 3 MP and S4 is more higher MP do you think this is best or fair method to compare result When I shot same on my S3 and Htc One using third party camera and native at 4MP on both I found HTC one result is bit better but not worse than my S3. Try yourself using Camera Zoom Fx or LG camera apk from play store or other third party cam and see the result yourself. I might be wrong?
[Galaxy S 4 General] boodies:
um... not even sure what to say lol so you tested the one and the gs3 both at 4mp? why? The gs3 should use it's full potential just like the one is using it's full potential. then you do a comparison...
[Galaxy S 4 General] rotchcrocket04:
Cheers to that! Exactly what I'm waiting to do as well. It's a shame more people don't do this.
[Galaxy S 4 General] Brillormen:
And it's not all about hardware either, at least not for me. It's about the feeling too, that the phone feels right for you. That it suits your personality.
[Galaxy S 4 General] Squirrel1620:
Yep, I've grown accustom to sense. I just know how to use it and get its full potential. I can snap a pic upload create new contact, make an alarm, make a note and text friends. When I look at my wife's gs3 I'm just like... Why do I have to go through so many screens to do the same lol but she is also accustom to touch wiz but she's still jealous of my nice widgets and their functionality
[Galaxy S 4 General] Basil3:
Hmmm....how many of my pics are in good lighting conditions? Very few.

All these staged photo tests are useless. I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that the One is much better than the SGS3 and Note 2 for taking photos in the conditions I do (moving kids in average light, trying to catch the moment).

If you like to use your phone for photos of scenery in good light (i have a DSLR for that), get the SGS4.
[Galaxy S 4 General] BarryH_GEG:
Your use of the word "I" is the smartest thing I've seen in a post recently. No one can tell

you

what's better for the way

you

use your device.

Everyone here, me included, has formed their opinions the same way. We've read reviews and looked at pics taken by reviewers and, in the case of the One, owners. There are subjective reviews (a reviewer took a One on holiday and its camera made him ‘fall in love’" and objective (GSMArena and the SQ site taking like images side-by-side and then observe the detail and quality captured using professional equipment). I (note the use of the word "I") tend to put more weight in the latter because it's "real" and measurable. And regardless of people's satisfaction with pic quality, a 4MP camera has 1/3 to 1/2 less detail available than a 13/8MP camera. As many sites have said that's fine for social, but for editing and cropping not so much.

Someone said the One's camera is a step up from the One X's which "was great." No it wasn't. This is from the SQ site's review and is an area HTC's struggled with based on the noise, compression, and artifcating their camera's have suffered.

There's more to image quality than just the size of a photosite, just as there's more to it than just megapixel count. There's also the matter of optics, and how the image engine processes the images coming out of a sensor.​

I loved my One X but the camera was the weakest feature (I don't count the battery, I expected that). Do you think this is a "great" picture? Perhaps social-size but viewed anywhere else the compression and noise was awful. My experience moving from a 8MP HTC camera to an 8MP Samsung camera was the total opposite of yours.

And so no one think's I'm "HTC bashing" this is what GSMArena said about the One X's camera. And, like the SQ site said, processing is as import as the optics to delivering good picture quality.

8MP camera fails to inspire. HTC took the camera hardware seriously this time - an f/2.0 aperture and a dedicated image processing chip clearly show they mean business. However the image quality is not quite the best in the 8 MP league - the One X produces rather noisy, if nicely detailed photos. Colors are nice, but tend to be a bit over-saturated at times. Sharpening algorithm is a tad too aggressive, too, resulting in occasional artifacts. The first two charts play to the One X strengths and shows it as a good shooter, though still not the best in the 8MP game. The third chart shows good too, but also some artifacts due to the sub-optimal processing of the One X.​

That's a huge YMMV. Why do you think sites that compare camera's (even stand-alones) focus so much on good lighting if the majority of the mass’s picture taking was in low light? I'd say about 2/3 of my (note the use of the word "my") pics are taken in bright (normal) conditions. I ski and spend a lot of time in the Caribbean. And of the pictures I've taken about 1/3 are indoor scenes and the rest outdoors. And based on the luck of my timing it's

bright

where I'm taking pictures.
[Galaxy S 4 General] Basil3:
@Barry

You make a point much better than I do :p

I wouldn't read too much into the reviews. If the camera is important to you, do your best to get your hands on both devices and see which works best for the way you use it.

I'm still planning on getting the SGS4 as well.
[Galaxy S 4 General] shox22:
The One X camera was medicore at the launch, but they improved it hard with updates... Now the camera can mess with the best (smartphones cameras). When i compare photos of the one x and the s3, the one x is at least at the same level, if not often better.
[Galaxy S 4 General] BarryH_GEG:
I'm in marketing, I get paid to do it. ;)

So true. Most people are influenced by marketing (you're welcome ;) ), first impressions, and what the sales drone tells them. Example. A friend just got a new LCD TV. I asked if was 60/120/24MHz and if it was "smart" and had Wi-Fi built in. He didn't know but it had XBR (some Sony imaging thing) and a "quartz-cut" design. So 240MHz obviously wasn't a hot button.

It'll be cool hearing your comparison. The One has a particularly wide FOV, the SGS4 will probably drive you crazy in comparison.

Stills

Video

---------- Post added at 01:42 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:37 PM ----------

I had the Teg3 One X through all three major updates. Differences to the camera? Only one I noticed was the focusing improved. Output? Not so much.
[Galaxy S 4 General] shox22:
Wooow. That is small :rolleyes:
[Galaxy S 4 General] BarryH_GEG:
Oops. What I originally posted was for video. I posted the still difference which isn't as big. Thanks (by your shock) for pointing it out.
[Galaxy S 4 General] yahyoh:
HMM i don't think the 28 vs 31 focal length can this big difference ;)

28mm

31mm

31mm look a bit zoomed , maybe the difference between GS4 VS One is one seems shoot 16:9 aspect ratio and the GS4 shoot at 4:3 aspect ratio :confused:

but GS4 will shoot at 16:9 aspect on 9MP :D
[Galaxy S 4 General] BoneXDA:
The difference is actually a lot smaller (taken from Mobile-review comparison video)

The advantage you get from a wider angle shooting something large is of course a disadvantage coming to normal or small framed shot. You can always do panorama if the S4's slightly smaller angle is insufficient for your needs, but at 4MPs you can hardly zoom in on the HTC One and have enough details. Between the two the lens isn't a big difference, the 9MP extra however holds major practical advantages for extra details, zoom or cutting.
[Galaxy S 4 General] BarryH_GEG:
Does anyone remember any discussions about the FOV differences between the SGS3 and One X last year? ;)

For distance shots like this a narrower FOV would be beneficial; nothing really meaningful's lost on the sides based on what's being captured.

But for tight framed stuff like this it'll mean stepping waaaaay back.

One X camera BTW.
[Galaxy S 4 General] -]Megacharge[-:
Those are some pretty impressive pictures.
[Galaxy S 4 General] BarryH_GEG:
Don't look close. ;) What's "great" social-size (500 x 282 posted here) can look different at 3264 x 1840. Kind of the points we're taking about regarding detail (4MP vs. 8MP vs. 13MP) and the post-processing capabilities of the s/w. Whether it matters or not totally depends on what people do with their pics after they take them.
[Galaxy S 4 General] -]Megacharge[-:
That's 8mp is it not? Seems spot on, considering.
[Galaxy S 4 General] BarryH_GEG:
I (notice the use of the word "I") do a lot of cropping so I can tell the difference in noise levels, compression, and artificating between my N2 and my ex-One X. And that's between two 8MP cameras. 4MP vs. 13MP will only make it more noticable.

Between the One X and N2 this is a good representation of the differences I noticed. And since the One X had decent camera h/w (dedicated image processor, f2 lens) any issues could be chalked up to post-processing.

Here's what GSMArena said about the N2. I never used a SGS3 camera so can't directly comment on it versus anything.

The Samsung Galaxy Note II camera quality is better than that of the original Note and nearly identical to that of the Galaxy S III camera though processing seems a bit different. The noise levels are kept down and the level of fine detail is high. Colors look good though they are slightly oversaturated across the board (the S III mostly pushes the green channel).​

This is a GSMArena N2 pic and a max resolution crop from about same distance the One X crop above was taken. You can see the difference. Again, whether what happens at high resolution matters or not is totally a matter of individual perspective.
[Galaxy S 4 General] -]Megacharge[-:
Just out of curiosity, were those S3/One X pictures from GSMArena taken before or after the One X received the update to fix the issues it had at launch, that ended up drastically improving it's overall quality?
[Galaxy S 4 General] BarryH_GEG:
I'd guess before. But you're the second one to mention a "drastic" improvement. I was using my One X on all three updates HTC released. The only diferences I noticed between them was the auto-focus wasn't so wonky and and some color balance improvement. Outside of that the quality of the output (noise, artifacting, compression) didn't change. Maybe my view of the update not being as dramatic as others is because I'm more interested in pic detail than most. And I'm also not saying the One X's camera was bad because it wasn't.
[Galaxy S 4 General] -]Megacharge[-:
Yeah, I know it was before. Just wanted to see what you'd say. ;)
[Galaxy S 4 General] Vatoe:
Priceless. Your signature not distracting at all.. :p
[Galaxy S 4 General] onlinejobwork:
I'm watching pics on my 32" TV and max resolution of full HD TV is around 2 mp so quality is more important not the mega pixel as 1000000000 times mention by wise peoples that there is no relation of mega pixel with quality and its only useful if you print it. If you watching 41 mp pics 8 mega pixel or 3 mp on hdtv they all look same and only those looking better who got better camera not higher mega pixel

---------- Post added at 07:46 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:41 AM ----------

Gsmarena got tendency not to update their bed point/review after things has been improved by software update they just carry on to next phone
[Galaxy S 4 General] BarryH_GEG:
The point missing in your argument is that multiple reviewers that have done objective (vs. subjective) testing have said there's no improvement in picture quality because of the bigger photosite's HTC's using. But every reviewer agrees more detail is better than less. So for no or little upside you're sacrificing 2/3 of the detail. If the One took fantastic pictures, better than phones with standard cameras, in both normal and low-light conditions, I could see people being torn between picture quality and detail. But that's not the case.

The theory:

The ultrapixels are bigger than you would get on all other current cameraphones. The Nokia N8 had 1.75-micron pixels, while the 808 PureView and the iPhone 5 both have 1.4-micron pixels. So, each pixel in the HTC One camera is twice the size of a pixel in the 808 and iPhone 5 cameras. Bigger pixels mean lower noise levels and usually, better dynamic range. Low-light performance is also helped by the Optical Image Stabilization (OIS) as we saw on the Nokia Lumia 920.

The result:

So let's get down to brass tacks here - the image quality. The HTC One promises a lot but does it deliver? Well that depends on the scenario. When used in good lighting condition, the low resolution really takes its toll and while the per-pixel detail level is impressive the total resolving power is quite limited. Colors are quite decent and images generally look pretty nice when zoomed at 100%, but we were surprised to see that a lot of noise is present. There is some purple fringing, too, so it's not perfect either. Overall, the gamble HTC took with the ultrapixels certainly doesn't pay off when in good lighting conditions. Just about every other high-end smartphone will produce better stills in that scenario.

And in low light:

HTC is boasting a faster, F/2.0 aperture, huge pixels and optical stabilization, all of which should result in great low-light shooting capabilities. The Samsung Galaxy S4 has an F/2.2 aperture, regular-sized pixels and no stabilization. Surprisingly though, we found the Samsung smartphone produces the better photos. They are brighter and with actual detail too. There's very little noise and the high resolution means there's plenty of detail. Colors are not perfect, but the photos are very good overall. The HTC One snaps photos in night mode faster than the Galaxy S4, but they are dark, noisy and there's not a lot of fine detail to be had. On the up side, colors are more accurate.

Doesn't that apply to all manufacturers? Do you buy a car thinking the first version may not be great but that it'll probably be OK because the manufacturer

may

update it? What would the folks on the One forum say if someone said some feature of the SGS4 that wasn't great at launch but "may" be fixed with an update? That person would be torn to shreads. And rrightfully so. A product at launch should represent a manufacturers best efforts. If it doesn't, they deserve whatever crticisim is thrown at them. And that applies to the almighty Samsung as well.
[Galaxy S 4 General] -]Megacharge[-:
Agreed, and because GSMArena is one of the more well known and respected review sites, this can leave final results skewed and misleading, in that people tend to mistakenly take the results as set-in-stone, when they may very well (and most likely) will not be, like the case with the One X. I've noticed users (not going to mention names, but it will become obvious after a while) also tend flaunt the old GSMArena detail photos these days like they are still an accurate representation of the One X's detail (which they are not) in a deliberate attempt to make points and skew people's opinions away from or toward a certain brand based off this old and misleading camera test. I understand people have their bias toward certain companies/brands, but it's a pretty lame practice to knowingly deceive people.