[Galaxy S 4 General] BarryH_GEG:
There are three types of participants in this thread:

HTC fans, loyalists, and One owners

Samsung fans, loyalists, and committed SGS4 purchasers

People having a discussion about two new cameras: The SGS4's 13MP camera and HTC's more radical 4MP camera with larger photosites

The latter group, which I consider myself a member of, is simply sharing comments and opinions on how well those two new cameras perform and compare to each other and how it would matter in different situations. Samsung's always delivered decent cameras starting with the SGS2. HTC's had trouble with noise and post-processing since the Sensation and there's support for both those statements a couple of pages back. From my personal experience with both HTC and Samsung's 2012 flagship phones I agree. But even with the differences between them you've never seen a series of threads on Samsung device forums saying "wow, this camera is stupendous" or "this camera is pure crap" on HTC's forums. That's because, based on the way most people use them, they meet their expectations. And that's most likely going to be the case with the One and SGS4 too.

This whole fork of discussion in this thread started pretty simply. I posted a couple of pics I took with my One X and someone responded with this.

I responded with this.

Then the thread went off on a tangent about s/w updates, picture ownership, brand biases, motivation for posting, and the credibility of individual XDA members. None of which was pertinent to a discussion of the difference in detail between phones and whether it bothers everyone equally.

HTC's reason for introducing "UltraPixels" was twofold. 1) stand out in the market with a competitive differentiator, and 2) deliver better pictures by increasing the size of individual photosites at the expense of resolution. They accomplished the former but the net result of the latter is the subject of debate and somehow turned to whether the availability in 2013 of 4K LCD TVs was important or not.

For someone who uses their phone's camera for casual shooting, little after the fact editing and cropping, and just wants "good" pictures either the SGS4 or One's camera would meet their expectations. In "point and shoot" mode, depending on the conditions, they might get better pictures from either camera but probably wouldn't be put off by either's performance even if one was better than the other in certain circumstances.

Put here's what happened along the way. HTC went to great lengths hyping UltraPixels' performance over standard cameras.

However, year after year manufacturers try to outdo each other with higher megapixels. How? By reducing the size of the pixels to cram more in, which often decreases image quality. That's because the smaller the pixel, the less light each one collects. This results in more visible noise and other defects in both still images and video. The more light a digital camera can capture, the more information it can record, resulting in better pictures in more varied conditions and lighting environments. HTC's approach is to offer larger pixels in the new sensor that can capture 300% more light than many of the 13 megapixel cameras on the market. Because larger pixels record more light and data, our photos display more shades and greater color accuracy.

Richer images in low light. Reduced motion blur. Uncompressed or minimally compressed photos. It turns out you don't need all those megapixels when you have more refined light sensors and smarter technology. HTC is proud to offer customers advanced technology that allows for the most stunning pictures available on today's smartphones.

http://www.htc.com/us/zoe/better-pictures/​

I've seen some great pictures taken from the One both in reviews and from owners who posted their work on XDA. Similarly, I've seen great pics taken from the SGS4. But, based on HTC's bold setting of expectations, the One's camera didn't distance itself in terms of performance to the degree claimed. At least based on what I've seen and read. So let's call HTC's investment in UltraPixels a clear win on the PR side and an improvement over competitive cameras in certain areas as it pertains to actual performance.

But back to the conversation about detail. A camera with 1/3 of the detail is going to have challenges. It's been discussed to death here with people saying it doesn't matter. To people that don't care about the One's lack of detail that's fine and you're representing some percentage of the masses. But it does matter to certain people and trying to convince them it shouldn't doesn't really make a lot of sense. On the flipside, people that are more concerned about detail shouldn't be trying to convince those it doesn't matter to that their wrong.

The One's camera hasn't gotten a bad review anywhere; in fact most reviewers rate it highly. Does it live up to HTC's "UltraPixel" hype? I guess that's for people to figure out for themselves. But, even reviewers who've been impressed by the One's camera, have commented on its lack of detail. So I guess this year it's something people are going to have to figure out the importance of when comparing the SGS4 vs. One.

While low light performance is impressive, photos captured with the One do suffer from

plenty of image noise

. You won't notice this if you're using your photos to upload to Facebook and Instagram

but when you want to zoom or crop images the quality isn't as crisp as we'd like

.

http://www.computerworld.com.au/art...c_one/?utm_medium=rss&utm_source=taxonomyfeed​

That's all nice to have, but it doesn't change the fact that the pictures I took on the One just don't look very good. Sure, shots are bright and colors are good, but it's clear

noise reduction processing is running roughshod all over the photos you take

, leaving them soft and mushy even in good lighting. Nothing looks sharp or crisp, no matter the situation.

Things look fine at Facebook or Instagram sizes

, which HTC is clearly betting is all you need, but when you zoom or crop, photos lose a lot of their luster.

http://www.theverge.com/2013/3/11/4086390/htc-one-review​

Sadly, the performance isn’t quite as stellar when it comes to everyday photography.

Whether it’s due to the lack of pixels

, or some other less-than-stellar component in the camera assembly, the One’s photos aren’t particularly sharp.

They’re fine viewed on the phone screen or Facebook, but blow them up any bigger, and everything goes a bit marshmallow-soft.

http://www.gizmodo.co.uk/2013/03/htc-one-review-damn-near-close-to-perfect/​

In more ideal conditions,

the One’s shots suffer if you blow them up

and compare them side-by-side with higher-megapixel images. The 4-megapixel sensor simply lacks the resolution to compete on that level. Nonetheless, at more typical levels of crop, we’re left impressed by the standard of stills from the One.

http://www.slashgear.com/htc-one-re...=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+slashgear+(SlashGear)​

In short, even though it's not perfect and

we'd love to be able to get more detail from zoomed-in shots

, the One's UltraPixels methodology appears to be completely sound.

http://www.engadget.com/2013/03/12/htc-one-review/​

There's a lot of noise thanks to the lower pixel count at times

, but the range of light levels you get to shoot in compared to other camera phones is excellent. And the photos we took looked stunning at times on the phone screen, which HTC says is where most of them stay - which we agree with to a degree.

However, on the computer screen things are oddly different

, with higher exposure and some loss of detail. You probably won't look at many photos this way, but if you're thinking of uploading them to Facebook, you probably will get some people checking out your efforts at a larger size.

http://www.techradar.com/reviews/phones/mobile-phones/htc-one-1131862/review/7#articleContent​

However, when taking shots outdoors

we noticed the limitations of the HTC One's low megapixel count

. Photos were fine at short and medium distances, but detail tails off significantly in the distance, leading to smudgy details.

http://www.expertreviews.co.uk/smartphones/1298431/htc-one/3​

However, compared to top-end camera phones like the Nokia Lumia 920 and Sony Xperia Z,

photos taken on the One do look slightly fuzzy and less vibrant when zoomed in on, or displayed blown up on larger screens

.We're guessing this is because while the pixels are bigger, there still aren't as many of them, meaning that image quality on blown up photos is still reduced.

This isn't a problem for people who just want to view the photos on the phone or other small screen devices

. But for those looking to use them for work or business purposes, for example to upload them to a company blog, or branded Facebook page or Twitter account it is an issue.

http://www.v3.co.uk/v3-uk/review/2254225/htc-one-review/page/4​

As a stills camera,

the HTC One doesn't escape from the problem of noise

. In low light, there's still plenty of noise, but we noticed that it preserved colour better than some rivals in the same situation. That said, even in perfect conditions, you still have noise blighting things like blue skies.

http://www.pocket-lint.com/review/6200/htc-one-review​

As you can see, the megapixel count and the resolutions are much lower than most other 8 and 13-megapixel cameras out there. In reality, though, high resolutions are only required if you plan on using a device's camera for large prints.

For most people, 4 megapixels are just enough - definitely enough for sharing on Facebook and for small prints

.

http://www.phonearena.com/reviews/HTC-One-Review_id3269/page/3​

4MP is just not enough, despite HTC’s claim that “Megapixels don’t matter.” Of course they matter. Consider this. The Nexus 10′s screen is a full 4.0 MP (at 2560×1600).

If you pull up a full-resolution photo you’ve taken on an HTC One on the Nexus 10, you can’t zoom in because there is no more image data. Do this on the iPad (which has a slightly lower screen resolution), you’ll get similar results.

Even if you zoom in on the One’s 1920×1080 (that’s 2MP) display, forget about being able to zoom in on a photo of a group of people to see detail in an individual’s face.

There’s just not enough data there at 4MP.

http://pocketnow.com/2013/02/20/megapixels-matter-htc-ultrapixel​