yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Galaxy S 4 General] BoneXDA:
So what CPU/GPU will the international S4 feature coming out at the end of April?
[Galaxy S 4 General] zelendel:
Dont put faith in benchmarks. They can be easily fooled into giving wrong scores.
[Galaxy S 4 General] AndreiLux:
Nonsense, bad benchmarks are useless. GLBenchmark and some others are exemplary and industry standard.
[Galaxy S 4 General] Toss3:
Exactly, GLBenchmark and Antutu are pretty reliable.
[Galaxy S 4 General] Jubei1:
We need better benchmarks in general. Right now its 90% crap with a few good ones. 3DMark is a nice start for sure

Unfortunately its hard to compare the drivers since so few OEMs in the Android world use the same MP core configurations as iOS devices. But i also admit i might be behind and there are comparisons available that i dont know of. But otherwise i suspect Exynos Octa will offer us a fairly decent comparison despite the difference in clock frequency
[Galaxy S 4 General] Entropy512:
Exynos5 "Octa" is likely going to be a nightmare for opensource development. Same exact documentation/lack of reference source code for platform HALs issues as the Exynos4.

The Exynos5 Dual's presence in the Nexus is of little benefit, since that's Mali T604 and the "Octa" is a PowerVR. This means the graphics subsystem is going to be significantly different. Yes, there will be some common components - gscaler, FIMG2D, MFC, etc - but how it's all "glued" together (and this is the important part) is going to be very different. Same reason that despite Exynos3 and Exynos4 having many common components (FIMC, FIMG2D, MFC), Exynos3 source was of minimal use on Exynos4 due to the PowerVR->Mali transition.

Since the "Octa" is only really a quad (HMP is a long way off, and since Samsung couldn't even get a basic cpufreq driver right in a timely manner with ICS on the 4210, don't expect to ever see HMP in your phone), it isn't going to provide much better performance than a 1.9 GHz Krait - At least on paper, the A15 is only about 6-7% faster in terms of IPC than the Krait. Even if you double this performance benefit, it won't make up for the Krait having a 18% higher peak clock.

Don't forget the software - software is as important as, if not more important than, hardware horsepower these days. Efficient software means less power consumed for a given task given equivalent hardware horsepower, and Samsung's software quality track record is UTTERLY ABYSMAL. Pretty much any benefits the "Octa" has over the quad-Krait will be thrown away by poor software integration with the platform.

An interesting test someone should've done during one of the "hands-on" parts of Thursday's event would have been to check suspend/resume times... Exynos4 takes an utterly insane amount of time to resume. I originally thought this was due to the modem being hung off of an HSIC bus that had to resume, but it turns out, even wifi-only devices take an eternity:

GT-N8013 (wifi-only Exynos4412 tablet)

<6>[233733.140308] c0 PM: resume of devices complete after 357.956 msecs

That's one of the better (shortest) resume cycles... During this entire time the device is locked at 800 MHz with cpuidle totally disabled. It's a massive power hog and basically the underlying root cause for nearly anyone who has ever complained about "Android OS" battery usage in the device. It's the underlying cause between the eternal Exynos4 complaints about screen turn-on lag.

Nexus 4 (APQ8064 with a modem hung off of an HSIC bus)

<6>[58212.241649] PM: resume of devices complete after 16.262 msecs

That was one of the LONGEST resume cycles...
[Galaxy S 4 General] AndreiLux:
A15's are still way more ahead than a mere 7% in IPC, even considering the Snapdragon 600's. Just compare the Tegra 4 scores to the latest Snapdragon 600's, the delta is huge.

In fact ArsTechnica joined AnandTech in reporting that the Octa is actually running 1.2GHz on the A15's and 1.6GHz on the A7's: http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013...-checking-out-the-chip-inside-the-galaxy-s-4/

If this is true, it's quite a mess until we have some true comparisons between the two.
[Galaxy S 4 General] Toss3:
Clock for clock the A15 should be about 30% faster(hence the clock increase on the s600). If you want AOSP then just buy a Nexus 4 or the next Nexus 5. Don't have anything against CM(in fact I think it's amazing), but considering the great features of TouchWiz on the S4, I doubt I'd want to switch to AOSP anytime soon. Wish we could have both, but alas that is not in the cards for the S4(except maybe for the S600 version(the more popular version, this time around)).

Just look at the Tegra 4 at 1.9 Ghz and compare it to the S600 at the same clock.
[Galaxy S 4 General] MoHoGalore:
Re: [Info] Exynos Octa and why you need to stop the drama about the 8 cores

Thanks for the write up, op.
[Galaxy S 4 General] zelendel:
Re: [Info] Exynos Octa and why you need to stop the drama about the 8 cores

http://mostly-tech.com/2012/09/29/the-dirty-little-secret-about-mobile-benchmarks/

Wayne Tech S-III
[Galaxy S 4 General] AndreiLux:
Sorry but that article is absolute trash. This quote deserves a huge facepalm:

If you don't understand the difference between triangle setup power and fillrate, then you're an idiot and shouldn't be writing articles about benchmarks.

Of course if you don't understand power management, operating system constraints, that web- and javascript-based benchmarks are limited to the browser and software, and even the basic low-level stuff what's actually going on in a benchmark then they are useless to you. But to all other who actually understand the synthetic nature, and the whole point of them - to measure the hardware's capabilities, it's a valid measuring device and indication that is used throughout the industry. Sure the current tools may not be optimal, but telling that they're worthless is just ignorant.

I love how people where whining about the leaked benchmarks which occurred over the last few weeks of the different models of the S4 - well guess what, they were accurate and real.
[Galaxy S 4 General] McDaddyTree:
More people need to read this...hence I am sharing. Too many arguments with people who don't know what they're talking about when it's all over the web if they did any decent amount of research. This is an amazing write up.
[Galaxy S 4 General] Toss3:
That was one of the most inaccurate articles I've ever read. He's using Speedtest as a benchmark and arguing that the iPhone 5 should be slower than the iPhone 4S, because the latter gets a higher "score".

"In tests like this one, the iPhone 4S beats the iPhone 5 when benchmarks suggest it should be twice as slow."(He's referring to speedtest here)

Benchmarks are clearly a good indicator as to how the device performs; his point about future updates changing the benchmark scores don't mean much at the point of purchase, as I know I'd rather choose a phone with high benchmark scores compared to one with lower. Benchmark scores also scale with hardware for the most part(Quadrant being the exception).

Speedtest says nothing about the performance of the device, while Sunspider does(differs between browsers, which is why more sites should test on all browsers instead of just using Chrome).

EDIT: AndreiLux beat me to it.

EDIT2: "Benchmark scores are not always repeatable – In theory, you should be able to run the same benchmark on the same phone and get the same results over and over, but this rarely happens" Yeah that is exactly how it SHOULD be. /s
[Galaxy S 4 General] zelendel:
All I am saying is that these scores can be faked easy enough by the OEM and others. I have found nothing beats real world usage. but to be honest doesnt matter to me really. As long as Samsung refuses to follow threw on their word with the proper documentation I will never get a device with the chip.

Not trying to start a flame war just dont want people putting too much into these scores just to find out that they dont mean alot when it comes to real world usage.
[Galaxy S 4 General] xateeq:
Re: [Info] Exynos Octa and why you need to stop the drama about the 8 cores

Thank You OP for the details.

I have one question.

Does this A7 to A15 switching same as Nvidia Tegra 3 (4+1) system where small tasks are handled by LP core and as soon as heavy load is applied high power cpu cluster is activated. But in Samsung case every cpu core has its own A7 cluster to work with e.g (1+1)x4=(A7+A15)x4=octa
[Galaxy S 4 General] Shan89:
Snapdragon wont throttle nearly as much octa or it wont throttle at all.

http://xdaforums.com/showpost.php?p=38635095&postcount=175

And

http://xdaforums.com/showpost.php?p=38536494&postcount=796

And yeah i know it's from HTC devices but still the same chip. So this pretty much settles it about throttling, tho we're yet to see the real tests.
[Galaxy S 4 General] Jubei1:
So because one guy ran Taiji without any throttling its proof that Snapdragon doesnt throttle? And how stressful do you think Basemark is for a GPU with Adreno architecture?

It settles nothing.
[Galaxy S 4 General] i9100g user:
Re: [Info] Exynos Octa and why you need to stop the drama about the 8 cores

Wow htc one ran a benchmark without throttling ! :D

So what relation does it have with exynos"s throttling?

sent fromXperia sT21i

Everything stock
[Galaxy S 4 General] Toss3:
I don't really see the point you are trying to make here, and your quote doesn't make it any clearer. The theoretical peaks of the Adreno 320 and SGX544MP3 are pretty much equal at 51Gflops. I don't see how you can take the performance of the iPhone 5 at a lower resolution and come to the conclusion that the SGX544MP3 is going to perform better than the Adreno 320; just does not make any sense.

The SGX544MP3 definitely has the edge when it comes to fill rate, but how well that is going to translate into real world performance still remains to be seen. What is true however is that the A15 is definitely going to outperform the S600 in terms of CPU power.

EDIT: Simple calculation: 51.9fps/24 * 533/300Mhz * 12 ~ 46.1 fps(Adreno 320 at 500 Mhz gets 41.1fps).
[Galaxy S 4 General] BarryH_GEG:
Simple. The iP5 performs nearly as well as Adreno when 543 is running at 200mhz so at 533mhz I'm

guessing

544 will surpass it even at higher resolution. I also said I can't see the future and that standardized tests will confirm all the guesses everyone here including me is making.
[Galaxy S 4 General] LoneFlac:
So the US gets what everybody else (International release) gave everybody else with the SGS3. Quad core (Sarcastic woo!).
[Galaxy S 4 General] AndreiLux:
I can't wrap my head around what 24 and 12 are supposed to be here...

27fps (iPhone 5 score from screenshot) * (533MHz (Octa presumed) / 325MHz (iPhone 5 frequency)) = ~45fps

30fps (Adreno) * (500 MHz / 400Mhz) = ~38 fps

You make no sense. The scores are already standardized at 1080P here, we're not discussing anything else, the native resolution is irrelevant.
[Galaxy S 4 General] Toss3:
Never said the caculations were logical(24 & 12 = USSE2 count(calculations based on the iPhone 5 would have been much better as you did -.-)), but I was just responding to prove that his logic made no sense(if that makes any sense). Isn't the SGX543 in the iPhone 5 clocked at 266Mhz(325Mhz seems correct based on calculations)?
[Galaxy S 4 General] BarryH_GEG:
Explain this. Or are you saying on-screen performance isn't relevant?

"Given that its screen resolution is much higher than its competitors, though it's can't compete as successfully in on-screen tests."

"...it doesn't have the graphics power advantage to fully compensate for it vastly higher screen resolution."​
[Galaxy S 4 General] TotallydubbedHD:
I'm more intrigued in power consumption over raw performance.

As much as "8 cores" seems cool and useful to some, I never use my S3 (quad core) outside power saving mode.

Power saving mode effectively uses 2.5cores (according to a few apps whilst monitoring core speeds).

Long story short:

Battery life and efficiency should be the talking point in my opinion.

Yet people who either are too bothered about benchmarks and/or just read what's said on the tin, seem to boast about the amount of cores a PC has.

ie. GPU's in PC's:

If you are going to game on something like Borderlands 2 with Vcyn on, it doesn't matter if you have a GTX TITAN or a GTX660ti -your FPS will solidly be at 60FPS. Yet people will go out and buy a Titan and enable Vsync...same thing to me applied with the S4's amount of cores and the same thing about buying an i7 over an i7 if you'll never do video rendering (using HT).

I want to know battery life - TRUE daily usage battery life.

EDIT:

Video on my thoughts of the S4's release:

[YOUTUBE]nt8J0uSNnkI[/YOUTUBE]
[Galaxy S 4 General] barondebxl:
You gonna have to wait for official reviews and users reviews for TRUE daily usage battery life. But i think the OP has explained very well the concept of the big LITTLE. If people still don't understand then just stay away from the S IV and get a dual core ( not you in particular).
[Galaxy S 4 General] TotallydubbedHD:
Oh I do understand - just don't see the need for it for me personally.
[Galaxy S 4 General] barondebxl:
There is no need for blinkfeed or smart stay but we have it. Same reasons i guess.
[Galaxy S 4 General] TotallydubbedHD:
Indeed. It has to progress some way or another.

I quite like how Samsung have gone ahead and put their heads out in front. This will encourage the competition to do the same.

With that said, As a S1 and S3 user - I feel the S4 is "just another S2" - where the S2 was popular, but wasn't AS popular as the S1 or the S3 have been - simply because that step from S1 to S2 wasn't all that justified, nor do I feel the step to S3 and S4 can really be justified at this stage of what's actually going to be used by the apps and so on.

What I mainly like on the S4 is the 1080p screen and its PPI and the rear facing camera (untested quality so far).

But these two reasons above don't justify me shelling out £500 for a phone, when I have an excellent phone already (the S3) - I'll be greatly intrigued to see what the S4 will do for Samsung's stock prices and the amount of market share the S4 will take in the smartphone market. As said above, I don't think it will outstrip the S3's reign.
[Galaxy S 4 General] barondebxl:
Totally understandable. If i had an S3 like you do, it would have been hard to upgrade but luckily i do not have an S3 so its an easy choice for me. As far as the S2 thing, i kinda disagree with you. The S2 is the phone that made everything possible for samsung. I was a big time samsung hater with the S1, the pentile was bad, the updates ( here in the US) never came. But the S2 really took it to another level, in fact it is still a relevant device today, we can't say that for the HTC sensation or Evo 3D.
[Galaxy S 4 General] Toss3:
Hmm already posted this in the other thread comparing the two models, but it kind of got lost in the ruckus about the Tegra 4. I noticed that when looking at the product code, only the 32Gb versions have i9500 in them, while all 16Gb versions have i9505. Coincidence?

16Gb: SAMSUNG GT-I9505BM, GT-I9505ZKADBT, GT-I9505WF, GT-I9505ZWADBT

32Gb: GT-I950032GBW, GT-I9500WHITE32GB, GT-I950032GBS, GT-I9500BLACK32GB, GT-I9500SCHWARZ32GB

My hypothesis is that the 32Gb is going to be released a bit after the 16Gb, making it less popular due to both its price and late release, giving Samsung enough time to get the Exynos 5410 ready for shipping.
[Galaxy S 4 General] Jubei1:
That sounds logical. Hopefully Samsung will release them in a wide market and not just a few regions
[Galaxy S 4 General] PLUG313:
that's sounds good to me! I won't mind waiting a bit more for the 32GB version as I was aiming to get that one anyway, I hope that's the one released here in europe. and HEY, now it's confirmed, the international version WILL have LTE http://www.heise.de/preisvergleich/samsung-galaxy-s4-i9505-32gb-schwarz-a917797.html
[Galaxy S 4 General] TotallydubbedHD:
nah for my the S2 in Europe didn't do well, nor was that appealing.

For the US though, that's a different story I feel.
[Galaxy S 4 General] _Variable:
Re: [Info] Exynos Octa and why you need to stop the drama about the 8 cores

Will S4 have Suuden Death..

___________________

Sent from the other side...

Press the THANKS button if I helped.
[Galaxy S 4 General] avetny:
very interesting.
[Galaxy S 4 General] katamari201:
Too many mentally challenged people screaming EIGHT CORES AAAHHH!!!! and deliberately lying idiots with reality distortion fields, not unlike the one Steve Jobs had, blowing up any discussion of the S4. As if there could be any sane discussion with a spec whore phone.

Eight cores doesn't mean jack. It's only FOUR cores used at once, only FOUR high performance A15 cores, and they suck lots of battery. So in other words, for all intents and purposes, it is JUST A QUAD CORE PHONE. The other four are low power low performance cores used in budget phones. If you are gonna compare performance, it's not that much different than a quad-core krait, the most generic and widely available one that every other phone will have in 2013. Even a good half of S4 models will be using the quad-core krait instead of exynos. So YES the drama over the performance difference is beyond stupid.

Then there's the supposed power savings of the four weaker cores. Have we all forgotten about this little known *cough* thing called the Tegra 3, which also had a helper core to save power? Did it matter much in the end? NOPE. Modern phones already downclock and shutdown lots of stuff as it is on standby. Krait core phones are champs on standby, but once you turn that pretty screen on and start doing stuff, bye bye battery. I don't expect any miracles with the software handling between the high power and low power cores, meaning it will still be stuck on high performance when you are using the phone, especially on Android phones where you can't tie down your apps on a short leash and make everything low power.

So basically if you are considering the S4 because of the Exynos processor and OMG EIGHT CORES!!!! you are deluding yourself into thinking it's gonna be better than the rest and a schmuck who is gullible to marketing, even though the info that its just a quad-core phone is all over the internet.
[Galaxy S 4 General] l3Lack H@t:
commandant ipplyh

WoW will definitely update this info on this page :) S4 I9500 :good:
[Galaxy S 4 General] TingTingin:
Re: [Info] Exynos Octa and why you need to stop the drama about the 8 cores

Apparently u didn't read the OP

This isn't a place for u to troll

S4 INFO
[Galaxy S 4 General] barondebxl:
Nobody is going to take you seriously. Go read the OP and learn something.
[Galaxy S 4 General] TingTingin:
Re: [Info] Exynos Octa and why you need to stop the drama about the 8 cores

Exactly it seems as though he read the first two lines of OP and said yes I can troll now

His tone of his post seems angry no-one would take someone seriously after acting like that

S4 INFO
[Galaxy S 4 General] MoHoGalore:
Re: [Info] Exynos Octa and why you need to stop the drama about the 8 cores

Let's not feed 'em.
[Galaxy S 4 General] dethrat:
Re: [Info] Exynos Octa and why you need to stop the drama about the 8 cores

Maybe this will clear up some more.

http://www.ubergizmo.com/2013/01/what-is-arm-big-little/
[Galaxy S 4 General] Galactus:
Expansys UK/Ireland have this model down

GT-I9500BUK - 16gb model.
[Galaxy S 4 General] nodstuff:
Re: [Info] Exynos Octa and why you need to stop the drama about the 8 cores

Just came across this thread and read it from start to finish, brilliantly put together and 9 pages of intelligent conversation.

Then I hit page 10 and in true xda fashion, someone sh*t in the punchbowl.

You sir, are an idiot.

In future you should read before you post.

To Andreilux and the other contributors, thank you.
[Galaxy S 4 General] i9100g user:
Re: [Info] Exynos Octa and why you need to stop the drama about the 8 cores

Some stupid xda error ,thanked ( top most post of this page) by mistake.

sent fromXperia sT21i

Everything stock

---------- Post added at 11:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:53 PM ----------

Yeah let's ignore such idiotic posts why waste our bandwidth:D

sent fromXperia sT21i

Everything stock
[Galaxy S 4 General] DynamicN:
Very informative OP and thread, thank you!
[Galaxy S 4 General] Razzzzer:
Not really sure this is "negative" article. Seems too me like he believes that the Exynos is not much better than s600, rather than him saying that the Exynos is not good.

---------- Post added at 04:27 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:05 PM ----------

My epic touch 4g has been fantastic.. so i guess its a "in the eye of the beholder" sorta thing.. now my experience with Sprint is another mater ;)
[Galaxy S 4 General] btemtd:
I was informed that the OCTA will definitely be LTE ... The I9305 is Exynos and has LTE It just uses the Qualcomm modem..

My guy which works with phones ordered 4 of his supplier and he told me they are LTE with the octa..

They'd better be we are now in 2013 everything should come with 4g Standard
[Galaxy S 4 General] sauron0101:
Re: [Info] Exynos Octa and why you need to stop the drama about the 8 cores

We need benchmarks before we can get any conclusions. The big questions are

How fast is the A7 and A15?

How much power do they use?

A7 stand by consumption is also important.

How often is the A7 used? The A15?

Right now we need that information before we can draw conclusions.

That said, we can make some intelligent estimates right now. We can probably extrapolate the 544 gpu performance based on existing benchmarks and the projected clockspeed. Likewise the s600 results could probably be extrapolated upon.

The quality of Samsung's software in identifying when the A15 should be used is also a big unknown.
[Galaxy S 4 General] brizey:
Very interesting thread.

But, frankly, I don't think it will matter all that much for real world use, at least the way I use the phone. I rarely do graphically intensive games, and pretty much never away from home, so I use my N7 for that. So really, both setups are probably overkill for me there. For battery life, I only travel maybe five times a year, and I have a battery vault thing I won for an award at work. On normal days I am either working from home so the phone sits on its charger all day or at work where I have a charger on my desk if need be (and in my car, and in my study, and on my nightstand, and upstairs in my wife's office, etc. etc.). Not really a nomadic college kid or anything. So battery life is just not an issue for me. (I get by with a Thunderbolt for cripes sake.)

Really, the two platforms are within spitting distance of each other so unless you play very graphically intensive games or live somewhere where electrical outlets are rare, I bet most (all?) of you would not be able to tell the difference in a blind test without using benchmarking apps or cutting edge games...except for the availability of LTE, which I am surprised is being written off as a non-issue.
[Galaxy S 4 General] Kremata:
There's one thing I'm not sure about the bigLITTLE technology. The A15 will kick in only when there's a big proccessing demands right? The A7 will run the rest of the time right? I very rarely play games on my phones and if I do they are little games not very cpu demanding. So for a guy like me my S4 would basically be a 1.2ghz phone since I never use apps that are very cpu demanding. Am I right?
[Galaxy S 4 General] i9100g user:
Re: [Info] Exynos Octa and why you need to stop the drama about the 8 cores

Most games would run on A7 cores , even In heavier games A7 cores would used for majority of time. ...

sent from an Galaxy s3 GT I9300

Running perseus kernel 33.1 , XELLA 4.1.2 leaked build

:D xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=1784401

Dont click,you might regret , I won't be responsible if you brick ur head
[Galaxy S 4 General] DynamicN:
So the A15 cores look nice on paper but wouldn't really be used a whole lot right?
[Galaxy S 4 General] PLUG313:
but they will certainly be more useful in the long run

I mean, today they may not be the most used

but someday when games are more demanding or apps or even a rom,

they will help, the device will be better for longer

I think