yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[One (M7) General] Turbotab:
With both Qualcomm and PowerVR pushing compatibility for OpenGL 3.0, I think game developers will move to it far sooner than expected. Hopefully we'll see better textures on mobile games, at the moment they clearly lag behind consoles, let alone PCs.
[One (M7) General] -]Megacharge[-:
While it's not HTC One, I posted a gameplay vid in the Samsung general section showing the Exynos variant of the S4 gameplay in Modern Combat 4 and Real Racing 3. While it's still early and the games may not be optimized for it, in my opinion it's not too impressive.

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=2227074 Judging by what I've seen so far, the Adreno 320 seems to run these games smoother than the PowerVR in the Exynos.
[One (M7) General] The-Last-Hylian:
It's awesome! We kinda stumbled onto this yesterday with MC4 :)

I can see you posted it above :)

It's a really exciting time!
[One (M7) General] hamdir:
i have watched these movies and it's clearly not up to Adreno 320 especially since we confirmed MC4 running at 1080p native (at least on Adreno)

i just want to say one thing, why were people expecting otherwise? because they fooled themselves into thinking its the same as the iPad4 GPU but its not

in reality the 544MP3 is more or less the 543MP3 on the iPhone it is than the 554MP4 on the iPad4

the only main difference between 543 and 544 is 2x the vertex power (claim), originally it was to be OCed from 300mhz on the iPhone to 533mhz (1.7x) but most likely it did not happen

so lets assume its running at 450mhz making it 1.5x the iPhone 5 plus 2x the vertex power

the 543MP3@300mhz has to deal with very easy sub HD resolution

meanwhile the 544MP3@450mhz has to deal with 1080p resolution!

all this and the iPad4's much faster 554MP4 is unable to deal with its own 2k resolution in many heavy games (MC4 lag, RR3 stutters), most importantly the iPad4 has one extra physical core, faster performing cores per clock plus a quad channel memory interface

bottom line what you are getting is a mid way performance between the iPhone 5 and iPad 4
[One (M7) General] hamdir:
drivers @80%
[One (M7) General] Turbotab:
For people wondering why the once mighty A6X, a large die area GPU, designed specifically for a tablet, is struggling to beat the Snapdragon 600's Adreno 320, a GPU designed mainly for smartphones in Glbenchmark 2.7, but is still the strongest in GLB 2.5.1, I have two suggestions.

GLbenchmark 2.7 is a beast of a test, far more complex than current Android games. It massively increased the geometric complexity, (number of polygons).

1) The PowerVR GPUs found in Apple products using a technology called TBDR ( tile-based deferred rendering), this has many benefits for mobile platforms, but its weakness is high polygon count scenes. Basically, as geometric complexity increases, the TBDR technology becomes less efficient.

2) GLB 2.7 features lots of lush foliage, which uses various transparencies to give the required effect. Part of this process requires the use of Alpha Test, which stops hidden polygons being rendered. I've confirmed with Kishonti, the makers of GLB that 'Alpha Test' is used in 2.7.

PowerVR GPUs do not like 'Alpha Test' commands, specifically the Discard command, its use harms performance. This is made clear by Imgtec themselves (Page 10)

http://www.imgtec.com/powervr/insider/docs/PowerVR.Performance Recommendations.1.0.28.External.pdf

However, a former Imgtec employee confirmed that GLbenchmark 2.7 is using Alpha Test, in the most effective way possible, so it doesn't totally remove all of PowerVR architectural benefits.

Back to reality:p GLB 2.7 is far more complex, than any mobile game we'll see this year, even the best mobile GPUs can only render it under 20 FPS. PowerVR continues to be an excellent GPU for the types of games we currently see on mobile. With Adreno 3/400, Qualcomm have an excellent architecture suitable for the next-gen of games. PowerVR Rogue 6 will be soon available, and we'll get a chance to evaluate how they've adapted their architecture to deal with growing complexity of mobile games.
[One (M7) General] hamdir:
excellent feedback mate, just a couple of notes

Adreno 320 is able to do both TBR and DBR, there is also a feature of juggling between both modes called Flex Render (i dont know if the mixed mode is introduced yet, it wasnt ready when the Nexus 4 launched)

Transparency is a big weakness on the power VR side and no its not just next games, the iPad 4 frame rate in both Asphalt 7 and Modern Combat 4 running at their native resolution hits bottom whenever you are in a scene with heavy transparency, some levels in both games are almost unplayable

to be perfectly honest, with the exception of the phenomenal Infinity Blade 2 on the iPad 4 i was very disappointed by the performance of the GPU, despite the massive increase over the iPad3 its still not enough to run the hardest current iOS games at 2k

back on topic, what do you think about the new benchmarks i posted above?
[One (M7) General] Turbotab:
I heard of Flex Render, but didn't really understand how it's being using in S600, an Anandtech article mentioned (S4 Pro) that futures versions will use heuristics to automatically switch, but are we there yet???

Asphalt 7 & MC4 are both Gameloft games, a studio known for unoptimised products.But more GPU more is needed, as resolutions increases, and games get more complex. I heard that WQXGA 7 inch tablets will launch next year, I swear we'll see 4K tablets by 2015.

I saw those benchmarks, we must be careful with the onscreen numbers, the Sharp & Vizio both must have onscreen buttons, and thus report a resolution of 1794 x 1080, so I'm not sure if they actually rendering at a true 1080p on those tests. Hopefully #One will get 4.2.2 soon, and we can run real numbers. Btw, why haven't there been any 4.2.2 leaks for The One, via RUU, didn't he used to release beta official ROMS in the past?
[One (M7) General] shox22:
Had too much battery left before i went to sleep, so i started a try:

Antutu loop till the device reached 50° and then started glbenchmark. Result?

37fps offscreen, 33fps onscreen (2.5). No sign of gpu thottling at all! Pretty amazing cause the device was really hot at this stage (51° at the end)...
[One (M7) General] hamdir:
Update:
[One (M7) General] hamdir:
So i thought, this thread deserves one more bump ;)

like promised, the HTC One Adreno 320 is now achieving 41fps in Egypt HD offscreen and 40fps onscreen! thanks to the new 4.2.2 drivers, at stock 400mhz

http://xdaforums.com/showpost.php?p=42120743&postcount=6562

---------- Post added at 02:55 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:23 PM ----------

This basically means the HTC One matches the iPhone 5 real world onscreen speed, in otherwords the GPU is as fast as the iPhone 5 in 640p, while we are running in native 1080p!

This is on stock 400mhz, OC to 450mhz will allow us to cross both iOS devices

HTC One, stock 4.2.2, 400mhz

TRex HD onscreen: 15fps

TRex HD offscreen: 15fps

Egypt HD onscreen: 40fps

Egypt HD offscreen: 41fps

iPhone 5

TRex HD onscreen: 14.6fps

TRex HD offscreen: 6.7fps

Egypt HD onscreen: 41.1fps

Egypt HD offscreen: 29.8fps

iPad 4

TRex HD onscreen: 12.4fps

TRex HD offscreen: 16.8fps

Egypt HD onscreen: 43.1fps

Egypt HD offscreen: 54.4fps
[One (M7) General] irzero:
honestly who needs 7fps in a benchmark on a phone?

Games that work on a mobile phone will work fine. Im pretty sure fast enough applies here.
[One (M7) General] jdawglx01:
This is all great... But how does it run Angy Birds tehehe!
[One (M7) General] i9100g user:
Right those 7fps won't make much of a difference(for running games at present) but the throttling part should be the thing to look out for , which would be more important for running heavy games smoothly for longer time and maybe ram would make some difference too:confused:

Phone looks great though.
[One (M7) General] hamdir:
7fps in this test reflects a much bigger difference in actually games, this a very hard test, in fact there no mobile device yet able to achieve 60fps on it

I'm still confident the tests we have are not clean since even the second video they run gl bench after full benchs like quadrant (not a good way to run the test at all, since hesvy heat will cause a throttle)

For everyone making jokes, this an area of concern for those who like to play high end 3d games on their phone like modern combat 4 and need for speed most wanted, and for those who feel its not so awesome when a 2013 super expensive android flagship can not match 2012 iDevices or that we are not getting the optimal snapdragon 600 GPU speed

If it doesn't concern you please leave your opinion to yourselves
[One (M7) General] quattro_rs:
Don't compare N7 score it has less pixels.
[One (M7) General] irzero:
The reason they cant compete with iPhone is that iPhone uses PowerVR and everyone else doesnt. PowerVR GPU is way better than anyone elses.

If the S4 uses a higher clocked CPU and DDR3 then it may have an advantage over the ONE. The reason Samsung will do this is because their flagship CPU is going to be AWOL. They knew the HTC would be configured this way and this is the only way samsung can now 1up HTC since they are going LCD and S4 600 CPU.

Samsung will have removable batteries so they can afford to trade power usage for higher clocks. Also the plastic back of the phone will likely allow better thermals than the alum back of the HTC. This could have affected how hot they wanted the cpu/gpu to be running under full load.
[One (M7) General] shox22:
I was trying to get some more information about the 3d power of the htc one. So i was thinking about the antutu 3d mark score. I dont know how viable these result are, but here are some:

Htc one: 8271/8432

Butterfly: 6671

Xperia Z: 7397/7314

Droid DNA: 5870

Also interesting could be the Ram results:

Htc one: 4189/4194

Butterfly: 3441

Xperia Z: 3158

Droid DNA: 3338

If Phonesare is correct, the dna/butterfly uses ddr2 533mhz ram.
[One (M7) General] hamdir:
Interesting and they simply add to the mystery, much higher 3D than the DNA/butterfly, but she's good Sony is milking the s4pro

RAM seems faster but not high enough so it could only be the improvements in the raised Krait 300

Finally antutu numbers are not very accurate I'm afraid
[One (M7) General] matheus_sc:
but cpu affects ram results i think
[One (M7) General] Jubei1:
While lpddr3 is a possibility for the difference in performance, it should be mentioned the Samsung device is on Android 4.2.1

Thats the latest Qualcomm drivers
[One (M7) General] shox22:
7 (or lets say 5 fps for the lower clock speed) would be a very high gain with a new driver version. But nothing is impossible. If just an old driver is the problem, that would be the best for us.
[One (M7) General] quattro_rs:
There is no way a swith from ddr2 to ddr3 with gain 7 fps.
[One (M7) General] Jubei1:
ARM Mali 400MP4 got a 40% boost going from 2.3.7 to 4.0

This is Qualcomms first unified architecture and mature drivers can add a lot. Im not guaranteeing this is the case but there is zero evidence of lpddr3 for Samsung device, but we do know the Samsung device is running a later version of Android
[One (M7) General] Turbotab:
No performance gain, on my Nexus 7 from 4.1.2 to 4.2.1 > 4.2.2, but drivers could definitely be an issue.
[One (M7) General] Jubei1:
Well your Nexus 7 is running on a Tegra 3. If i had to guess Nvidia had mature drivers in place already

Nexus 4 is running 4.2.1 (2) but even there its actually older drivers compared to the upcoming OEM versions
[One (M7) General] strip419:
What the heck is wrong with you guys. I am a gamer but u guys make soo much noise about how bad the gpu of the one will be, I wonder if you gonna be playing CALL OF DUTY on it, I still have my desire Z with andreno 205 and believe it or not it plays need for speed most wanted with no problem(slightly overclocked). the ONE will do just fine boys, DON'T WORRY. the benchmark is a very difficult one for most mobile devices to hit 60fps, so 34fps is good for now. Stop leaving in the future guys, if am not wrong a game can be made to render @ 720p on a 1080p screen and it will fot perfectly on the 4.7" screen (correct me if am wrong)
[One (M7) General] NiCk.JaY:
I agree, my Desire HD with adreno 205 runs pretty good
[One (M7) General] hamdir:
your desire and desire HD do not have 1080p screens, while scaling can be used, the trend in games is actually using native resolution

again for those who are ok playing downgraded effects disabled shadow versions of iOS games on a brand new android flagship, this does not concern you!!

and we have call duty style games already, MC4 NFSMW they play on your desire/desire HD with severly reduced graphics

its because of such low standards that android OEMs are not even trying....

worst part is attempting to explain why games are inferior to an iPhone 5 user!
[One (M7) General] NiCk.JaY:
Um, yes, now I understand your point too
[One (M7) General] -]Megacharge[-:
Any chance we may be able to OC the RAM on the One if it turns out to be ddr2? Maybe squeeze out a couple extra GB/s of bandwidth.
[One (M7) General] hamdir:
going back to our Desire and Desire HD examples

the Adreno 200 @WVGA on the Desire was "barely" making it, even on release it failed to run Asphalt 5 as good as the iPhone 3gs, i don't understand how you can say it's still good

Adreno 205 @WVGA did flips things it was greatly faster and was a match or even faster than Tegra 2, still it was barely able to run shadowgun at good speeds

so really, i can bluntly say you guys have no idea what you are talking about and again this is an item of concern for those who want mobile games to run at least as good as their iOS counterparts

and about the HTC One i'm loosing hope

new results:

http://www.glbenchmark.com/phonedetails.jsp?benchmark=glpro25&D=HTC+One

31.5 fps when tested onscreen 1080p

almost the same to the months older s4pro on the Droid DNA/Butterfly

http://www.glbenchmark.com/phonedetails.jsp?D=HTC Butterfly

HTC just had to screw this one up

all we need now is official GL team / Anand results and we can call it off

and this is what he said about the GPU

so lets hope its software
[One (M7) General] hamdir:
Brian replied

https://twitter.com/nerdtalker/stat...5eebce-8b73-4551-8c17-f67068a9beb2&nid=27+234
[One (M7) General] matheus_sc:
This bench is the problem, optimus g pro have same specs and 26fps only. If all bench are poor results yet, But this is not the case
[One (M7) General] Eggcake:
The bench is certainly not the problem.
[One (M7) General] hamdir:
Actually i think you mean Qualcomm is the problem

my biggest worry now is that they did not solve the GPU throttling problem

notice the two N4 results, Freezer against normal....
[One (M7) General] RobertN`:
After all, this fps issue is because of a faulty driver or because of the dd2 rams ?
[One (M7) General] hamdir:
since the DDR3 LG Optimus Pro is doing worse

most likely drivers or throttling (since virtually everyone is running few benchs in succession)

before Anandtech investigates this we can conclude nothing
[One (M7) General] RobertN`:
I asked someone who has it to run the tests, dunno if he will but i`m curios to see if it will confirm the results above.

Also S IV will have snapdragon too, so...will snapdragon everywhere :D
[One (M7) General] Eggcake:
The LG Optimus G Pro doesn't have LPDDR3, but LPDDR2. One more reason to believe that LPDDR2 is correct for the One.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/6792/...nce-preview-snapdragon-600-tested-at-mwc-2013
[One (M7) General] hamdir:
can you ask him to run only and only the Egypt HD offscreen 1080p test or onscreen?

nothing before it, nothing after it while the phone is charged but not on the charger

---------- Post added at 01:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:55 PM ----------

correct!

why was everyone saying DDR3 around here, sigh....

still we r shufffling between DDR, drivers and throttling and we will not know until some proper lab tests
[One (M7) General] Eggcake:
Yup - in my opinion, the only possible explanations are either:

1) Throttling

2) Software/Driver issues

3) GPU not running on highest clock

1) and 2) make the most sense - I don't believe in 3) and I don't believe DDR2 is the problem as it wouldn't explain why it's even slower than the S4 Pro.
[One (M7) General] i9100g user:
I won't be surprised if they will still use exynos...

Would be better to wait, before assuming anything..... .

sent from an Galaxy s3 GT I9300

Running perseus kernel 6 , XELLA 4.1.2 leaked build

:D xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=1784401

Dont click,you might regret , I won't be responsible if you brick ur head
[One (M7) General] RobertN`:
well, 99,9% will be snapdragon because the source told me the battery drain was really really huge with exinos so i guess they still didn`t managed to optimize it yet.

The good thing is that most of the high-end phones will use the same gpu(adreno 320) and this will push them to update the drivers if that`s the case, if it`s the ram...then, well sucks :D
[One (M7) General] i9100g user:
Well whatever they are going to use was decided from the start because you can't start the soc production before a month or two ,of release and make it available in time.

sent from an Galaxy s3 GT I9300

Running perseus kernel 6 , XELLA 4.1.2 leaked build

:D xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=1784401

Dont click,you might regret , I won't be responsible if you brick ur head
[One (M7) General] RobertN`:
Not really, they buy the snapdragon, the don`t produce it right ? and i guess Qualcomm has enough of them...i just don`t see Samsung ditching an in-house SOC for an "external" one, probably something went wrong down on the road and they were forced to change it.
[One (M7) General] hamdir:
Samsung already have an "alternative" SOC policy since the SGS1

so they probably been working on both all along before making the call
[One (M7) General] Turbotab:
1) IRC, Anandtech like to run all the GLBenchmark test sequentially, which is a very tough & long test, so I'd expect a degree of throttling, compared to just running Eygpt HD offscreen. We have also seen a trend of conservative governors from HTC, LG etc, easily fixed by custom kernels.

Regarding the other known Snapdragon 600, the Samsung SHV E300S, which scores higher than the LG Pro & HTC One on GLB.

2) Samsung could be using their supplier advantage, and getting first pick of any LPDDR3 production, which may explain the large difference in FPS of the SHV E300S, if Adreno is bandwidth limited on these tests. However Samsung has made a big fuss of their Internal Firewall between their Phone and Component divisions, to avoid losing confidence in their component customers, amid accusations of 'spying'.

3) Samsung may or may not have dropped the Exynos Octa from the GS4, which from the T4 benchmarks would be a real shame, as A15s have a significant advantage over S600 in terms of CPU. However their core design of the GS4, must have been for the hotter and power hungrier Exynos Octa, when using a Snapdragon 600, did they find they could increase the clockspeed of the GPU, the SHV E300S is already the only published Snapdragon 600 device, using the max 1.9 GHz CPU clock. They also have the advantage of owning their own fabs.

4) I am the only one who is sick of the way these benchmarks are run? There seems to be no control variables, for battery life, open programs, ambient temperature, heat soak etc etc, we need a mobile benchmarking ISO:laugh:

[YOUTUBE]lM1PqGpFF0c#![/YOUTUBE]
[One (M7) General] Maedhros:
Its actually a brilliant strategy too...

If the GS3 had the same soc as the Note 2, then what really differentiates their top tier product from their mass appeal product? Just screen size and S-pen? 2 features that might not be enough to sway most people otherwise.
[One (M7) General] katamari201:
Oh noes! This will so effect my words with friends framerate!
[One (M7) General] biohaufen:
AW: GLBenchmark HTC ONE only 34 FPS @ Egypt HD 1080P Offscreen

@Maedhros: S3 and Note II have the same SoC (Exynos 4412) ;) The one in the Note II is just higher clocked.
[One (M7) General] Eggcake:
@Turbotab

I think LPDDR2 still does not explain the GL framerates we are seeing from the One and the Optimus G Pro. I still think it's one of the three mentioned reasons. Before it isn't scoring higher than S4 Pro, there is no reason to think it's because of LPDDR2. There is no reason the device isn't scoring higher than GLBench other than software or throttling (either GPU is clocked lower to begin with which wouldn't make any sense or it's throttled because of thermal issues).

Edit: Aw crap 34 is higher than S4 Pro...somehow I had 26fps from the Optimus G in my head. Well then LPDDR2 can of course be an issue. I still doubt it and bet on non-final drivers.
[One (M7) General] hamdir:
one more response like this and i will start reporting the spammer

if you have nothing of value to say to the topic at hand, STAY OUT OF THIS THREAD!

---------- Post added at 04:32 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:27 PM ----------

yes i agree, even anand runs them in succession which is just stupid if you ask

throttling is a hard fact in all mobile chipsets but for the GPU you at least need a clean run

that being said, the Adreno 320 situation was always worse than all others

Anand basically struggled to catch the full 30fps Adreno 320 score on the Nexus 4 without the freezer lol
[One (M7) General] :
If they have "recently" moved to s600, it's obvious that GS4 will be late to market. Don't

think

they will have enough numbers to satisfy the initial demand.
[One (M7) General] hamdir:
like i said they didnt not recently move

they had both all along as you guys dont know samsung at all

they release the Galaxy Note1 and SGS2 on three different SOCs!

and before you argue look it up
[One (M7) General] biohaufen:
AW: GLBenchmark HTC ONE only 34 FPS @ Egypt HD 1080P Offscreen

@hamdir: Yes that's true, but I don't like this strategy. Because it's bad for the customers. One device with a Qualcomm SoC another with an Exynos SoC etc.

Also they aren't as fast as the other one.
[One (M7) General] :
How many of those running Qualcomm/TI SoC were available at the time of launch?

I don't think anyone knows when they moved or if at all they moved, unless he works for Samsung. It's vague to judge how much they can produce or what will be the initial demand. I say whoever "predicts" their production capacity or demands is simply guessing.
[One (M7) General] hamdir:
SGS3 at launch
[One (M7) General] biohaufen:
AW: GLBenchmark HTC ONE only 34 FPS @ Egypt HD 1080P Offscreen

@hot_spare: Don't know. But look at the GS3... One US Version with S4 Dualcore and a European version with an Exynos 4412...
[One (M7) General] hamdir:
low level results are scary similar to the Nexus 4

so im thinking the promised improvements are actually drivers and samsung leaked device is using the latest drivers in the 4.2.x build

in fact the main Adreno 225 improvements besides the added extensions were better drivers (which the Sensation guys received with the ICS update)

Further hint: both the LG and the One are running on android 4.1.2

and by the way Trubo did not see a drivers boost on his Nexus 7 because it shipped on JB but we the One X users saw 2fps increase in 1080p offscreen HD when the JB OTA arrived

i really think this is it (90%) as for the LG extra low scores, throttling (LG had more heat issues than others in their s4pro devices)
[One (M7) General] :
Correct me if I am wrong (not from US) --

I recall US variants were not available during launch. They were a month or so after the international launch in late May. And I remember reading many articles of very limited availability in US/Canada for a month after their release.

Example here -- http://www.theverge.com/2012/6/19/3097953/sprint-t-mobile-samsung-galaxy-s-iii-delay
[One (M7) General] biohaufen:
AW: GLBenchmark HTC ONE only 34 FPS @ Egypt HD 1080P Offscreen

@hot_spare: Oh sorry, but still 2 different SoCs in one device...