yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Nexus 4 General] Raijin:
Thank you for your response.

And the screws? They will detect that phone was opened anyway.

It's funny thinking about this things to repair a thing that should come well done.
[Nexus 4 General] -JFK-:
Sorry, I was editing my post, just be careful to not scratch the head of the screws.
[Nexus 4 General] Raijin:
Thank you. :)
[Nexus 4 General] simonbarsinistr:
I've got my graphite foil on order and am going to give this a shot, thanks for the info!
[Nexus 4 General] 609125:
thanks you men! I have a decrease 10ºC or more in cpu temperature with a copper and termic past artic silver 5 and now it's very dificult to reach 56º in game! and he temperature of battery don't reach 42ºC!

Again, thanks!
[Nexus 4 General] mpdt:
I see a 10ºC decrease in temp in both the CPU and battery using graphite foil and Arctic Silver 5 thermal paste.
[Nexus 4 General] NunoVeiga:
I'll try that... Wich metal you advise?

Srry about my english.

Thnks
[Nexus 4 General] undercover:
Gold.

Or any other already mentioned in this thread gazillion times :)
[Nexus 4 General] mpdt:
Graphite foil and Arctic Sliver 5.
[Nexus 4 General] Abaddon:
damn! nice find. would try it on my other nex
[Nexus 4 General] mpdt:
The battery will still over heat using that sub-par Owl in car wireless charger on a summer day.
[Nexus 4 General] argodak:
Faux123 kernel changes the throttle temps, it has two modes intelli thermal and qualcomm's original (different than nexus stock), with both the throttle won't start unless you reach 41-42 (the stock 36 is just plain stupid, in the summer the outside temperature is hotter than that if you are living in a hot country... like if you are living in spain, italy, portugal, greece etc your phone will be constantly throttled in the summer, even when idle...).

When Faux123 works with qualcomm's original thermal throttling the speed starts lowering around 41-42C and stabilizes around 43C and never goes higher than that. intelli thermal works differently, it stops one or two cores to reduce the heat instead of lowering the speed, so even when throttled you get full speed but with less active cores, it also stabilizes around 43C, however it took me 20+ minutes of stress test to even reach 43C.

I actually ordered paste and plates to make the mod but then I went abroad before they were delivered so I had to postpone, installed faux123 as a temporary solution till I come back but was so satisfied with it that never got to making the mod.
[Nexus 4 General] jrplaw69:
Hi Everybody

Pretty deep for my first post. I think I'm missing something because I done this mod and had to double check but we are putting the TIM on the samsung chip. I thought the cpu/gpu qualcomm soc is whats putting off the heat. So what's up with the samsung chip? I"m probably missing the entire point to this but if someone could clarify I'd really appreciate it. :good:
[Nexus 4 General] undercover:
Samsung chip is RAM. CPU is sitting under it.
[Nexus 4 General] jrplaw69:
ok

Alright, well so the copper (what I used with as5) pulls the heat from cpu/to housing/ copper/ ram with TIM between copper on both sides right? Hope ram stays stable. Maybe lg will release design reason someday since nexus 5 is coming
[Nexus 4 General] Rusty!:
Is pretty normal practice, the RAM is part of the SoC after all
[Nexus 4 General] undercover:
No, it goes - cpu-ram

With mod - cpu-ram-copper-housing

By doing the mod you are doing ram a favour as well.

Btw, I had to take my shim out as it was causing major degradation of gps signal and I use Satnav pretty much daily.
[Nexus 4 General] jrplaw69:
ok

Well maybe the degradation in signal is why lg didn't put anything there. After about a week my temps are 42C on cpu and I think 34C on battery. That's the highest I've seen, might be off a degree or 2 on the battery
[Nexus 4 General] tr1cky1:
I just installed a piece of copper ontop of the cpu/ram and have a stress test running for 20 minutes now, before I got 58° celsius battery temp and now I have 45° celsius, no throttling, because franco Kernel doesn't throttle based on battery temp at all.

I installed a 15x15x0.5mm copper pad and used Arctic Cooling MX-2 thermal paste.
[Nexus 4 General] btk97:
Hello people, how are you?

Sorry for asking this here, but couldn't find anywhere else and didn't intended to post a new thread.

Do you guys know if it is possible to solve the thermal throttling by a software update, or if we can expect this to be solved in the 4.4 Android KitKat update?

Thanks a lot for the help!
[Nexus 4 General] tr1cky1:
Solve thermal throttling? You mean solve the heat problem, as thermal throttling just keeps your phone safe from overheating, else you can just install a custom kernel and change the throttle temps yourself. And no, a software update will not help to get the phone cooler.
[Nexus 4 General] btk97:
Thanks for the response. Didn't know it was about the temperature getting too high, I thought it had something to do with the software too because the Optimus G don't behave the same way.

Thanks a lot for your help and clarification!
[Nexus 4 General] tr1cky1:
I can confirm that placing a piece of copper on top of the cpu decreases your GPS signal a lot.

Gesendet von meinem Nexus 4 mit Tapatalk 4
[Nexus 4 General] 0kpkp0:
A thermal pad seems as a reasonable compromise at this point, the thermal conductivity wont be that good, but there should be no bad side effects on the GPS signal.
[Nexus 4 General] Tom540:
You can solve it with software; just install a custom kernel like Matr1x/Neo/Trinity and turn thermal throttling off. That's what I've done, although my battery temperature rarely hits high temps anyway.
[Nexus 4 General] -JFK-:
When this thread have started, I have say that I won't put a metal piece in the phone because of that, I 'm not surprised!

For those who want good thermal pad, look at Fujipoly;)
[Nexus 4 General] skezza:
To me, I've not found the throttling to be particularly serious thus far. It certainly doesn't slow the phone down in a real usage sense, although I'd like to see the effect it has on the battery. My battery life is usually piss poor.
[Nexus 4 General] undercover:
This thread is not so much as about throttling, but rather temperature control.
[Nexus 4 General] Ender666666:
Does anyone need some Ceramique 2?

I bought a few extra of the larger 25g tubes at a good price, and would be willing to share the deal with other members.
[Nexus 4 General] simonbarsinistr:
I'm using a graphoil pad, and can confirm severely degraded gps performance. It's almost disabling. If Google location isn't enabled, maps won't find a lock. GPS alone will just endlessly search.

I'm going to remove the pad, it helps with more rapid cool down from high cpu temps. But the pros aren't enough to overcome the GPS problem.
[Nexus 4 General] undercover:
Indeed. Same here, removed my ages ago. Yes, not as good temp wise, but still not too bad with some uv.

Sent from N4 ? now Free
[Nexus 4 General] aegidios2:
Hi ,

I'm plannig to install a thermal pad in my N4 , non electrical conductive , so GPS would not be affected right ?

I have choice between 0.5mm model and 1mm , assuming that thermal pad can be compressed can I go for 1mm model ?

http://www.frozencpu.com/products/1...ance_MIPs_Innovatek_19100.html?tl=g8c487s1290

Thank
[Nexus 4 General] vollmilch:
Correct! :)

Gesendet von meinem Nexus 4 mit Tapatalk-4 now Free
[Nexus 4 General] neozengar:
I am also interest in doing this mod. Would you recommend .5mm or 1mm thermal pad? Also, I have seen some pad's thermal conductivity of about 1.2 w/mk, is this going to be enough? Thank you so much for the help!
[Nexus 4 General] simonbarsinistr:
I pulled out the graphoil pad last night, instant gps improvement!
[Nexus 4 General] aegidios2:
Graphoil are graphite based tape ? Have you tried with silicon pad ?
[Nexus 4 General] simonbarsinistr:
No, the graphoil (not tape, more like a compressed powder sheet that I cut to size) is the only method I've attempted.
[Nexus 4 General] vollmilch:
For a pad I'd recommend 1mm but make sure you put back in your screws tightly enough (not too tight though, as they get damaged very quickly!).

I sorted out that the thermal conductivity is rather unimportant. Its more about good contact to the chip and frame side. So yes, its enough.

Gesendet von meinem Nexus 4 mit Tapatalk-4 now Free
[Nexus 4 General] smayonak:
Grafoil is composed of graphite, IIRC, and shouldn't interfere with radio signals as it does not conduct/absorb electricity. I think carbon fiber is arranged in such a way that it is somewhat electrically conductive. Grafoil should should interfere much less than some thermal compounds or metal shim. Is it possible that you aren't using grafoil and instead are using carbon fiber? Or a similar carbon-fiber based material?

In my Nexus 4, I had a graphite (grafoil) shim installed and there was no issue with GPS, except when I used an undervolt.
[Nexus 4 General] simonbarsinistr:
Definitely not CFRP, cutting down the pad would make that obvious, this is a graphite pad, which cutting also makes obvious by how it crumbles slightly and leaves a grey residual on my fingers. Maybe they had some agent added to the compression as a binder that causes interference, but either way, the gps difference was absolute.

Also, no custom kernel, OC or UV to interfere, just stock settings on Paranoid Android running through multiple nightlies, for about a month.

I tested thoroughly.
[Nexus 4 General] one282:
Hi guys, I have bought all necessary things I need for make a hard mod on my N4 (copper plate, TIM MX-4, dissasembly tools:), but right now I read about significant quality decrease of GPS signal. Because I use my phone as navigation very often, I am not sure if will do that. Do all of you guys, which did hard mod, have these GPS issues?
[Nexus 4 General] simonbarsinistr:
I did, with graphoil.
[Nexus 4 General] smayonak:
That sounds like Grafoil. According to the iFixit teardown, neither the GPS chip nor the antenna are positioned in a way that would significantly interfere with the GPS signal. So whatever is causing the issue exceeds my knowledge of this subject. I do know that if you don't use thermal paste, the shim will likely slip out of its housing while the motherboard is moved into position. This may be what's causing the issue.

I did not experience any GPS lock, wireless or data reception issues. On the other hand, silicone pad is probably the best solution for general safety and installation purposes. It may not perform on the level of Grafoil, but it does a good enough job to reduce heat bottle-necking.
[Nexus 4 General] simonbarsinistr:
I can't explain the interference either, but it was considerable. I did use a little thermal paste in between the pad and the mid frame to help keep the pad in place during assembly, which worked great for that purpose, and maybe aided in heat dissipation as well.
[Nexus 4 General] smayonak:
If you used Arctic Silver 5, which is highly conductive, this may explain the radio issues. But even so, it's not located near the antenna or GPS module. I could see it causing some issue, but not that much. But I'm no expert on radio frequencies. I hope someone with expertise in this area pipes in soon.
[Nexus 4 General] simonbarsinistr:
I did use arctic silver, but only in between the pad and midframe, not in between the pad and cpu. So it still shouldn't have been causing electrical interference. Very strange issue, considering the GPS placement.
[Nexus 4 General] undercover:
Nope. I've used ceramique 2 which is neither conductive not it is capacitive. Meaning, ideal for this application. Still, major gps decrease.

Sent from N4 ?
[Nexus 4 General] OutlanderPL:
What about the long-term side effects, if there are any? At first there were fears that this design was intentional.:confused:
[Nexus 4 General] howard bamber:
I've found the best way to get the phone to run cooler is to use a really good kernel. Since I started using Mirages the phone runs cooler and battery life is better.

I've swapped between stock and Mirage and there is a definite improvement. I think you are bolting the stable door, in other words getting rid of heat a badly designed stock kernel produces. My rom is stock.

Sent by mobile telephone.
[Nexus 4 General] aegidios2:
By the way , I will get a big sheet of thermal pad and I wonder if there is any way to cool down the battery sensor area with a pad applied between the battery and the backdoor ?

Tx
[Nexus 4 General] mpdt:
I used a small bit of Arctic Silver 5 on both sides of the foil and on the battery terminal and have had not radio issues.
[Nexus 4 General] smayonak:
OK multimetered the Grafoil shim

OK, my multimeter is not functioning properly, but it reported that my grafoil is fairly electrically conductive, although not as much as copper. This means it will likely have some impact on GPS performance and other wireless features. The amount, though, is unknown, since it is not located near the antenna.

The long term effect of reduced heat will mean less wear and tear on your CPU and RAM. Overall, it will mean longer system life, but potential radio interference.

Right now the most elegant solution is to combine a custom kernel with a 1mm silicone thermal pad.

Is there enough room to deploy it? As troun2000 mentioned, the metal frame can only absorb so much heat.

Those are my results as well, but given that the grafoil we used turned out to be conductive, it's likely we are experiencing a small amount of GPS signal degradation. It hasn't effected my GPS navigation, so I imagine there are other factors at play.
[Nexus 4 General] A4ko:
There is not enough depth for 1mm thermal pad. 0.5 mm is just fine. With 1mm pad it is really hard to assemble the phone. Also bluish artifact can occur on the screen, right behind the CPU, because that pad is so hard compressed, that it bends the magnesium frame. :p
[Nexus 4 General] imperator01:
Can't you guys just order a replacement part from optimus g, it has a thermal pad integrated from the factory.
[Nexus 4 General] OutlanderPL:
I was rather thinking of bad effects of this mod, such as discoloration of the display.
[Nexus 4 General] aegidios2:
Hi , I'm about to purchase pad . should I go for 1mm or 0.5 mm ??

Tx...
[Nexus 4 General] AlmogK:
0.5 thermal pad isn't enough because thermal pad is foam like material

1.0mm thermal pad is to thick as some user 4-5 post above you mentioned.

the gap you trying to fill is 0.5-0.6 in height i think 0.6-0.8 thermal pad will do the trick the best.. so it wont be to tight but have enough room to shrink without loosing effectiveness
[Nexus 4 General] aegidios2:
Thanks but my only possible choice is between 1mm and 0.5 .... So I take the 0.5 one and maybe add a little thermal paste on it to fill the gap ?
[Nexus 4 General] smayonak:
Troun2000 suggested 1mm for silicone thermal pad because of how highly compressible it is. But .5 with thermal paste would probably work as well.
[Nexus 4 General] AlmogK:
1mm is to much for a risk... different pads have different compressibility.. you can never know. and as for one users reported to thick pad can make to much pressure on the screen which make a blue mark on the screen.

0.5 with some thermal paste for added thickness will be the best and safest thing to do.
[Nexus 4 General] A4ko:
1mm pad is just too thick. Mobo assembly is highly problematic. Had to be a spongy, RAM cooling type. Otherwise compression force will definitely damage something. 0.5mm high conductive pad works great. Good thermal conductivity to the mid-frame. No hot-spot and thermal throttling. Games like Dead trigger 2 don't stutter even slightest on high settings. :good:
[Nexus 4 General] aegidios2:
So I've mod my device yesterday and result is amazing ... No more hot spot near the APN ... And this is a first bench

No heat during this...

My LG Nexus 4 scored 7239 in the 3DMark Ice Storm Extreme Android benchmark test. http://bit.ly/3dmark-android3dmark-android

And Dead trigger 2 with ultra high detail mod doesn't make overheating anymore

Tx all
[Nexus 4 General] aegidios2:
////Deleted
[Nexus 4 General] vollmilch:
Looks like LG did it again with the nexus 5. No thermal pads inside. LG, what are you thinking?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YzUj3fpI994&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Gesendet von meinem Nexus 4 mit Tapatalk
[Nexus 4 General] stavca:
thank you for this MOD!! I already put the graphite pad between frame and SoC and with -125mV UV which I had have before it's very good :)

I tested it while playing Dead Trigger 2 on high details with .xml configuration changes (allows effects for Tegra devices) and it's almost impossible to reach 65°C for throttling CPU
[Nexus 4 General] lovesingh25:
I did this mode just couple of hours before but I am not getting the desired results.CPU still goes around 70 degrees(hover around 63 - 68) while playing plants vs zombies 2 . I used aluminium shim but the thermal paste I used was of some chinese brand. Do thermal paste needs time to settle in or I should open it up again and apply some more thermal paste on shim as I didn't use much as recommended. Any suggests are welcome.
[Nexus 4 General] lovesingh25:
Ok after few days of testing everything is fine now and gps is working normally.

sent from Nexus 4
[Nexus 4 General] meangreenie:
What happens if you raise the battery thermal limits in system/ect/thermald.conf (reboot)

i've set my min one and so on to kick in at 42.... instead 36..... i found i can get more antutu/quadrant runs before throttling kicks in.
[Nexus 4 General] el_charlie:
Any news about this research???

I'm tempted to do this mod and cool down my phone further.

Cheers!
[Nexus 4 General] Jayrod1980:
Excellent guide. Since I've opened this baby up a couple times, I'm pretty comfortable doing what you suggested. My questions are, would copper or alluminum be better, and again, how thick the piece, and where would I get it? I'm sure I could crimp the piece to the right size, and then hit it with some sand paper to make it smoother, but I'm not very mechanically minded... and other than some hvac work, have no experience with metal sizes, etc. I thought copper was a better thermal conductor, why would aluminum be better? Because it's cheaper?

Also, I wanted to answer the concern about the glue spots. If you look around the glue spot problem is in another area. It seems to be where the machine or people press the layers of the screen together with glue that causes the spots. I've had a few RMA's of this device, and everytime I had a big glue spot, the screen had a small deformation in the glass, much like a faint car door ding on the screen, a little farther than halfway down in the middle. The chip sits much higher than that, and I've always had the bluest part of the screen up at the top. So in other words, I doubt this will effect your screen negatively at all. Furthermore, it's hot spots that cause problems more than general heat. Heat dispersed evenly, even at higher temperatures tends to affect performance much less than one concentrated part heated to a greater degree. This is my experience with computers, and you can see by a few examples where people cooled their case in an aquarium with mineral oil. Pretty wierd, but cool looking and the machines would get quite warm, though stable because the entire environment was the same temperature. Anyway, anecdotal a little, but I know heat spots are the biggest issue. I want to do this mod this weekend!
[Nexus 4 General] Lownita:
My guess is they just left the thermal pad out because they didn't have any or were in a hurry! They also left out a piece of plastic that should hold down the hardware keys, see here: http://youtu.be/AZDAIgwbXk4?t=19m47s

I know it is a daring assumption :p
[Nexus 4 General] Jayrod1980:
Re: Nexus 4; Investigating thermal throttling [HardMod]

What keeps the copper on the chip though? Won't it slide off at some point when the paste gets hot? Also what are the dimensions of the chip itself?
[Nexus 4 General] el_charlie:
Re: Nexus 4; Investigating thermal throttling [HardMod]

The logic board should keep it in place without moving.

But a more elegant solution would be a thermal pad, albeit not as efficient as the copper pad.

Cheers!
[Nexus 4 General] FatalityBoyZahy:
I'd love to see the long term effects of this!
[Nexus 4 General] el_charlie:
Oh, s**t,

Thermal pads are not available in my country.

I'll figure something out.

Cheers!
[Nexus 4 General] Jayrod1980:
Re: Nexus 4; Investigating thermal throttling [HardMod]

I am interested still in this solution since I have to open my phone again to replace a screw. So upset the only place to get the battery connector screw is from the UK. Dang screw is only about 4-5 bucks but $30 after international shipping. If any of you are doing this mod, be very careful where you place your torx screws. The SKU for them shows up no where. The only way I think to get them is lg direct.

Back on topic... You say the logic board holds it in place. Would make sense if it is pushing against the backside of the screen. A piece of copper looks to give much better performance than some thermal pad. I assume you would just cut a piece of pad made for RAM sticks or something? What type would be suitable? Something .5mm thick? Heat is a huge issue with this phone and probably why it benches so poorly compared to its other s4pro brethren.

Can the op report if he's still using the copper in his phone and if there are any negatives to doing this after using it awhile? My screen has been working for enough weeks to not worry about glue spots anymore.
[Nexus 4 General] Richieboy67:
Re: Nexus 4; Investigating thermal throttling [HardMod]

No offense intended but I really think the team of LG and Google engineers did this for a reason. If it was just a matter of doing something this some I am sure they would have done it.

Perhaps there are other problems this change is causing that you just have not discovered yet..

Sent from my shiny new, scratch less Nexus 4!
[Nexus 4 General] el_charlie:
Re: Nexus 4; Investigating thermal throttling [HardMod]

Then, why there's a recessed space for the SoC???

Maybe they were hurried to deliver a product as fast as possible and didn't think the heat was an issue. I think it won't harm the display because the hear will spread across the magnesium frame.

Cheers!
[Nexus 4 General] Testraindrop:
Also interesting would be to see how its done on the Optimus G, if they are using a cooling pad/solution there, then they just saved some money on the N4...

This thread should be pinned somewhere...:good:
[Nexus 4 General] simms22:
after reading this thread, i just dont understand why you wouldnt disable thermal throttle the easy way :confused:

via terminal emulator..

su(press enter)

echo N > /sys/module/msm_thermal/parameters/enabled(press enter)

to turn thermal throttle back on, replace the N with a Y(N=no, Y=yes). also, anyone can build a kernel with the thermal throttle temp raised/lowered to what they want, or disabled. i push my devices cpu to 80-90C often :angel: