yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Nexus 4 General] troun2000:
Nice, it is 'almost' a confirmation as you are exactly in the range, and already higher than only with thermal paste.

PS: I updated the first post with your respective links/informations/etc...
[Nexus 4 General] vollmilch:
AW: Nexus 4; Investigating thermal throttling [HardMod]

double post
[Nexus 4 General] PcFish:
Bored at work, noticed your blurb about the 40C/104F temperature.

That is the max temperature for charging. (Notice the squigglies going into the + side) IE You shouldn't charge your phone in a room with a temp higher than that. The Nexus 4 will most likely not charge at that temp. (Hopefully the software prevents it) And at 60 C it'll shut down on it's own to cool down. (Or again it should, hopefully)
[Nexus 4 General] younix258:
Re: Nexus 4; Investigating thermal throttling [HardMod]

Graphite foil link in OP is dead.
[Nexus 4 General] -JFK-:
After a little search I have found that kind of thermal pads :

http://www.frozencpu.com/cat/l2/g8/c487/list/p1/Thermal-Thermal_Pads_Tape.html

There is different thickness, that can be a good solution too.

What do you think ?

A question : did there is a stickers "warranty void" inside the phone that void the warranty at the opening ?

Edit : just run "Stability test" and see mine throttle to 1026Mhz at 32.5°(battery), so finally, I have doubts about the link bettween the battery t° and the CPU throttle.

Using "Franco kernel updater" app, to set the thermal throttle threshold to 60° (70°stock) my phone go down to 1026Mhz at 29° battery t°.

So really doubt about the link between the battery t° and CPU throttle.

The CPU t° sensor is more near the CPU.
[Nexus 4 General] vollmilch:
1.There are no warranty void stickers at the inside of the phone.

2. Sounds that something's messed up with your configuration. It shouldnt throttle at these temps.
[Nexus 4 General] T-119a:
Here is my stabilytest. My starting temperature was 19°C. After 6 Minutes the throttleing kicks in to 1242 mhz, after 10 Minutes it reaches 1134 mhz. I have noticed that the display now takes a lot more heat, because of the cpu is carrying the heat directly to metallic frame.
[Nexus 4 General] undercover:
Re: Nexus 4; Investigating thermal throttling [HardMod]

Well, this is one of my concerns. Won't it degrade eventually? Screen I mean.

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Sent from my fridge. Make: LG Model: N⁴
[Nexus 4 General] vollmilch:
AW: Nexus 4; Investigating thermal throttling [HardMod]

Nobody can tell at this stage. But I don't think it's hotter than before. It just spreads out over a bigger surface.

Gesendet von meinem Nexus 4 mit Tapatalk 2
[Nexus 4 General] undercover:
Re: Nexus 4; Investigating thermal throttling [HardMod]

Ok. So I ran stability test. No hard mod yet. 10 Minutes in and getting bored I realised that I'm under volted by - 150mV. It dropped down to 1.2ghz and battery never got hotter than 37c. So that was it, I could run it like that for eternity. Then I quickly went to system Tuner, went back to stock voltages and low and behold, i had to stop test as I was getting worried about temperatures. It would be interesting to see what cpu temperature you had when running test with mod. Also, if you are on stock voltages, it would be interesting to see test with undervolting. In system Tuner, in srttings-notifications you can download cpu temp pack that will show cpu in status bar. Quite handy. On screenies left is battery and right is cpu temp.

P.S. interesting read on cpu vs power consumption. Granted, our difference is not going to be as high (33%), but still.... http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2200205

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Sent from my fridge. Make: LG Model: N⁴
[Nexus 4 General] vollmilch:
AW: Nexus 4; Investigating thermal throttling [HardMod]

Thats great. Wonder if it would throttle at all with the hard mod.

You gonna do it?

Gesendet von meinem Nexus 4 mit Tapatalk 2
[Nexus 4 General] -JFK-:
Hi,

There is two screen shot of this morning :

1st :

External t° : 14°c

Battery start t° : 17°c

I'm under Franco kernel with -100mV UV

My CPU thermal throttle threshold t° is 70°c

2nd :

External t° : 14°c

Battery start t° : 20.8°c

I'm under Franco kernel with -100mV UV

My CPU thermal throttle threshold t° is 50°c

Were is the link with the battery t° ?
[Nexus 4 General] vollmilch:
There is clearly something wrong with your throttle treshold. Do you have an option in your kernel settings to load defaults?
[Nexus 4 General] undercover:
Re: Nexus 4; Investigating thermal throttling [HardMod]

Yes. I really want to keep cpu temp down. As long as it doesn't affect battery temp.

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Sent from my fridge. Make: LG Model: N⁴
[Nexus 4 General] -JFK-:
As you can see on the first screen shot, it have run 6min before go down.

the starting t° was very low.

That mean the CPU have reach 70°c in 6min and go down, during this test the battery have only reach 26°c.

For the second run, the CPU have reach 50°c in 46sec and go down, during this short run, the battery have only reach 23°c...

Franco's kernel CPU throttle work very well, and the sensor is near the CPU and there is another one on the battery, no link between the two.

I will buy some thermal pad and do more test too.

To the OP : how have you measure the gap between the CPU and the aluminium structure ?

Do you think it's better to buy 1.5 or 2mm thickness pads ?

Thank you
[Nexus 4 General] troun2000:
:confused: I verified it, and it works. Maybe try another browser???

These ones are probably more thermal tape, as already said, they should be compressed, so I would suggest buying ticker than 0.5mm. However, you should better use something else.

Why do you want battery sensor or SoC sensor to have the exclusivity to initiate throttling. I think both can induce SoC to throttle, depending on which component has most critical temperature. I guess something like;

if Tsoc>60C or Tbat>37C then setCPUfreq=1124Mhz

if Tsoc>70C or Tbat>40C then setCPUfreq=1026Mhz

Nice, it is very close to what I reported in table in first post. :good:
[Nexus 4 General] undercover:
Re: Nexus 4; Investigating thermal throttling [HardMod]

I don't understand why you guys don't keep an eye on cpu? I get better results than you without the mod with just undervolting in regards to battery.

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Sent from my fridge. Make: LG Model: N⁴
[Nexus 4 General] troun2000:
Numbers you report are very encouraging. As I mentioned previously, under-volting is a key point as voltage is 'square related' to the heat to dissipate. It looks like;

P(W)=k.V.V

In other words, in your case you lowered voltage of about ~13%, which lower the generated heat of about ~25%. Well donc! :good:

I am not sure to understand your point/question?

It is reported in first post, the pocket is about 0.5mm thick, depending on how much can the tape been compressed you should buy thicker ones. If you want absolutely these ones, buy different types, and you will decide when receiving them.
[Nexus 4 General] vollmilch:
AW: Nexus 4; Investigating thermal throttling [HardMod]

Can any1 with/without the mod run stability test CPU/GPU?

Here's my try, starting at about 23 Celsius battery temp.

It throttled cause of CPU temp this time I guess, not battery which still was below 37 degrees.

Gesendet von meinem Nexus 4 mit Tapatalk 2
[Nexus 4 General] undercover:
Re: Nexus 4; Investigating thermal throttling [HardMod]

Mod day today :)

All in all £5. Not bad. Also, was pleasantly surprised to find Ceramique 2 instead of 1.

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Sent from my fridge. Make: LG Model: N⁴
[Nexus 4 General] undercover:
Re: Nexus 4; Investigating thermal throttling [HardMod]

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Sent from my fridge. Make: LG Model: N⁴
[Nexus 4 General] troun2000:
It seems you gonna be the most advanced here by having both under-volting and copper mod, I start being jealous... :p

I guess I should start seriously to take a look at alternatives ROMs and kernels :D
[Nexus 4 General] undercover:
Re: Nexus 4; Investigating thermal throttling [HardMod]

Initial tests complete, will come back when gather more data. Initial results not impressive.

Edit. I might have to take the above statement back and choke on it.... o.O

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Sent from my fridge. Make: LG Model: N⁴

---------- Post added at 05:30 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:29 PM ----------

Ok. Can't be asked to di pic comparison so here is raw data.

Both UV -150mV

Run before the mod | Run after the mod
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Run time | 06.11 | 07.49 | 12 | | | 06.11 | 07.45 | 10 throttled and kept this temps stable
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
CPU temp | 61 63 59 50 52 54
CPU freq | 1.5 1.24 1.29 1.5 1.5 1.29
BAT temp | 34 37 36.5 32 34 36.5
BAT drain | all around 1.2Ah(1200mAh) from 0.8Ah to 1.1Ah (800mAh to 1100mAh)

So yeah, me likes it. :) I like that cpu temp was lower by quite a bit, even before throttling, battery stay cooler etc. All positive. However, I hardly reach such temperatures, but it will definitely be handy in the summer to disperse heat more as it uses more of a body to do so. Lets see how it performs in real life situations. :)

VERDICT:. DO IT!!!
[Nexus 4 General] undercover:
Re: Nexus 4; Investigating thermal throttling [HardMod]

Temple run on average 5c lower cpu temp. :thumbup:

All that, over 3h sot, 12h off charger, loads of stress testing (shows about an hour) and 20% left. Quite excited about results. Will post full cycle results tomorrow.

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Sent from my fridge. Make: LG Model: N⁴
[Nexus 4 General] meangreenie:
How long could you run if you change the throttle trigger for the battery to 40 in thermald.conf.
[Nexus 4 General] undercover:
Didn't try and won't try either, as I don't want to mess with the throttle. I believe it's there for a reason. And I don't see the need for it tbh.

Small tip how not to lose screws. A bit of tape, make a circle with sticky side out, stick on paper then just drop screws on it as you pull them out.
[Nexus 4 General] meangreenie:
meh, my grannies flat is hotter than 37 degrees ;) .. I've had mine set to 42 since day 1 back in November, same as the optimusG
[Nexus 4 General] undercover:
Re: Nexus 4; Investigating thermal throttling [HardMod]

It took 10 minutes of stability test to throttle it. Not many apps can be that intensive, so IMHO no need to adjust throttling anyway.
[Nexus 4 General] -JFK-:
Re: Nexus 4; Investigating thermal throttling [HardMod]

To Undercover:

Witch app do you use to measure the CPU t° and consumption?

Thanks.
[Nexus 4 General] undercover:
Re: Nexus 4; Investigating thermal throttling [HardMod]

System Tuner. It has a handy add on in settings - notifications for status bar icon.

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Sent from my fridge. Make: LG Model: N⁴ :flipoff2:
[Nexus 4 General] -JFK-:
Re: Nexus 4; Investigating thermal throttling [HardMod]

I can't find the one for CPU consumption (battery drain in mah) .

Thanks.
[Nexus 4 General] Xmaster8:
So after reading this thread looks like LG manufacturer error. In my opinion Google/LG should request users to send the device back and they should fix this.

Or atleast fix it in upcoming revs.

(I know... im dreaming :D )
[Nexus 4 General] undercover:
Re: Nexus 4; Investigating thermal throttling [HardMod]

What do you mean cpu consumption?

Oh I see, sorry, was too early :D

For battery consumption I use Battery Monitor widget. There is an app that combines these two called Android Tuner, you could try that.

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Sent from my fridge. Make: LG Model: N⁴ :flipoff2:
[Nexus 4 General] Jayrod1980:
Re: Nexus 4; Investigating thermal throttling [HardMod]

This question is a little off topic but in relation to the mod. How is the back cover after removing and replacing after the mod? I think I was a little too rough with mine the last time I took it off. I have creak now and two spots on the black plastic that have some give to them, specifically at the top and on the bottom near the USB port. I can remove the creak with electrical tape but don't know if it will ever feel as solid again. After watching the disassembly video again I think I was pulling on it too hard vs releasing those last two clips. I have another back cover but I want to prevent making the same mistake over again. For the ones that have done the mod, is your case still solid?
[Nexus 4 General] undercover:
Re: Nexus 4; Investigating thermal throttling [HardMod]

Yeah, quite solid. It can be moved (sides in certain places) but I have to apply fair bit of pressure. I guess same could be said about before the mod, but I never tried before.

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Sent from my fridge. Make: LG Model: N⁴ :flipoff2:
[Nexus 4 General] vollmilch:
AW: Nexus 4; Investigating thermal throttling [HardMod]

First time opening the phone is the toughest, I almost freaked out as I couldn't open the clip in the bottom corner. Before I had a creaking noise at the top which is now gone and its much more solid than before.

The second time it was much easier. Although I think it can't stand to be opened several times, especially the screws which feel very cheap.

Gesendet von meinem Nexus 4 mit Tapatalk 2
[Nexus 4 General] justFaisal:
Re: Nexus 4; Investigating thermal throttling [HardMod]

I have a Xbox CPU fan that I took out of a broken system, it fits very nice on the back of the phone. I just ordered a 9v battery.... Will report soon :D
[Nexus 4 General] vollmilch:
AW: Nexus 4; Investigating thermal throttling [HardMod]

Lol thought about sth like that already.

Gesendet von meinem Nexus 4 mit Tapatalk 2
[Nexus 4 General] -JFK-:
To Undercover :

Hi, anything to report after some days of use ?

I will receive my thermal pad in few day and will do the trick.

I have choose to use thermal pad and not cooper and thermal paste because of 3 things :

- using a cooper piece made the heat pass through "chip-paste-cooper-paste-aluminium" and think that is not the most efficient.

- I'm not good at all in electro-magnetism but can imagine that this cooper piece have an effect on it.

- finally the cooper piece can virtually move inside the phone.
[Nexus 4 General] elpy909:
My 2 cts.

I don't think so. Paste have only to fill the irregularities of the material, the main heat conductor remain copper.

In fact, all the metallic frame is already here. This piece of copper just add to this frame, and does not interfer with the antenna wich is behind.

No. The thermal paste is quite sticky indeed.

(Et sinon bien le bonjour de Nantes :highfive:)
[Nexus 4 General] -JFK-:
Hi, thank you for your return, have you done the MOD ?

In the OP, we can see that the depth is around 1.5mm, that mean 0.5mm paste + 0.5 cooper + 0.5 paste, too much paste for me !

I can't say more about the cooper effect in electro-magnetism, I'm not good at all.

You right, the past is sticky but probably depend of the t° !

You have a PM, please check it.
[Nexus 4 General] -JFK-:
I gess you can have better result with that kind of thing : Freez bag.
[Nexus 4 General] elpy909:
Not for the moment, but think about it.

Nop, there is 1.5 mm depth, but 1 mm is fill with the chip. There is only 0.5 mm filled with the copper, the thermal paste, like I said, is only here to fill material irregualarities (virtually 0 mm).
[Nexus 4 General] justFaisal:
Re: Nexus 4; Investigating thermal throttling [HardMod]

I finally did a quick test with the Xbox fan on the back of the phone (just for fun, this is not the optimal solution I just wanted to try it).

I did antutu stress test for 6 mins: (for now)

With the fan - BAT temp stayed at 36°C and CPU at 50°C.

Without the fan - BAT temp jumped from 34 to 37°C in 1.5 mins and CPU temp @ 60°C.

Antutu benchmark:

CPU temp didn't go higher than 62°C and BAT temp stayed at 35°C (did 2 runs back to back).

All stock frequencies, no OC, UV, UC. Will post pictures soon!
[Nexus 4 General] undercover:
Not much to report. Phone is as cool as Chuck Norris. ;)

Although, I do think that battery on lower temps is a tad higher than what it was before, but at the higher temps it is lower than before. Hope that makes sense to you...

Not much in terms of battery life, no difference tbh, but i haven't been using it heavily either. As a book reader it lasts me LOOONG time, 7 hours of screen on at least ;) ( i read a lot atm). Phone is warmer than before, but temp sensors report lower temperatures than before (cpu), so that means it disperses heat a lot more efficiently. Also, as someone mentioned before, it's not as concentrated in one spot as it used to be. I'm sure this will be great in the summer, even gentle breeze will be cooling it down efficiently.
[Nexus 4 General] leader288:
Re: Nexus 4; Investigating thermal throttling [HardMod]

Hi, what app did you use to monitor the cpu temp?
[Nexus 4 General] justFaisal:
Re: Nexus 4; Investigating thermal throttling [HardMod]

TempMonitor
[Nexus 4 General] Svenmaster:
i modded my n4 today aswell :)

working pretty good, very noticeable lower temperatures :)

i used an old copper pipe to create the small copper plate :)
[Nexus 4 General] Jayrod1980:
Re: Nexus 4; Investigating thermal throttling [HardMod]

That shim is taking forever. Probably stuck in customs. Thank you guys for posting the exact type. Makes it easy to do this without having to modify anything.
[Nexus 4 General] undercover:
Re: Nexus 4; Investigating thermal throttling [HardMod]

Again, if you are using paste, I highly recommend Arctic Silver Ceramique due to its non capacitive and non conductive properties. This way there are no worries about it spreading onto PCB.
[Nexus 4 General] IINexusII:
nice to see you've got the temps down. ill be ordering a copper plate too and doing this to my phone. although i personally have always used Arctic Silver MX-4 on my PC hardware :)

ill report back later
[Nexus 4 General] ferris2375:
Re: Nexus 4; Investigating thermal throttling [HardMod]

All the pics are broken... Is there a guide for this?
[Nexus 4 General] undercover:
Pics are working fine here. Try disabling adblock if you have one.
[Nexus 4 General] :
Re: Nexus 4; Investigating thermal throttling [HardMod]

They don't show up in the forum app for me as well. To see the pictures open in the browser on your phone or on a pc. That works for me.
[Nexus 4 General] davwman:
Re: Nexus 4; Investigating thermal throttling [HardMod]

This. And finally have another use for my arctic silver ceramique. Copper is on its way to me as we speak. Can't wait to do this. Im all about modding things.
[Nexus 4 General] -JFK-:
HardMod done !

A bit hard to open the phone, but take your time.

This video is very usefull to locate the "clips" : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZDAIgwbXk4

I have choose to use a thermal pad.

Now the phone take x2 to x3 the time to throttle and once again, at my side, the battery t° have no link with the CPU throttle.

This will be very usefull during the summer !

Conclusion : Let'so go !
[Nexus 4 General] el_charlie:
Which thickness did you use? 1mm???

I can't find a copper plate, but I saw in my country thermal pads from 0.5mm to 2mm. I think I'll buy the 1mm one.

Cheers!
[Nexus 4 General] undercover:
Re: Nexus 4; Investigating thermal throttling [HardMod]

0.5mm
[Nexus 4 General] -JFK-:
Hi,

I have buy mine there : http://cgi.ebay.fr/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...NX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649#ht_1532wt_900

And yes, the one that fit better is the 0.5mm, the 1mm need too much pressure and I was afraid to broke the main board.

Using the 0.5mm, I have feel a little compression during re-assembly, so for me, that one fit perfectly well.

Be carefull about the thermal conductivity of your thermal pad.

There is low end thermal pad around 2W/mK and the common "good" one are around 5w/mK.

I have found top end there : http://www.frozencpu.com/products/1...x_50_x_05_-_Thermal_Conductivity_170_WmK.html

But it's from US and I'm not really sure that made a big difference in a phone.

Conclusion : I'm very happy with the one that I have buy.
[Nexus 4 General] el_charlie:
Thanks! I'll get a 0.5mm one.

Just to be sure, with a thermal pad there's no need for thermal compound, right??? AFAIK there's no need at all.

Cheers!
[Nexus 4 General] vollmilch:
AW: Nexus 4; Investigating thermal throttling [HardMod]

Exactly

Gesendet von meinem Nexus 4 mit Tapatalk 2
[Nexus 4 General] undercover:
Re: Nexus 4; Investigating thermal throttling [HardMod]

Are there 0.8 thermal pads? Would be better imho.
[Nexus 4 General] MisterWinkey:
Re: Nexus 4; Investigating thermal throttling [HardMod]

I just did it with the copper.

We will see how it goes. Very easy mod.

During the stability test I did notice the whole top of the phone is warm now. Before it was the spot where the SOC was near the camera.

It never got to over 39 deg on antutu stability test also where before it would hit 40 pretty quickly on my nominal CPU with stock voltages. -150mv it never gets over 37c and that takes quite a while.

Wife's fast CPU gets the mod next.

This mod seems to already be proven but if someone wants an A. to B. Comparison I will do it.
[Nexus 4 General] vollmilch:
AW: Nexus 4; Investigating thermal throttling [HardMod]

Could you also do a direct comparison on stability test (CPU/CPU+GPU)? Until 1st/2nd throttle kicks in.

That would be awesome. I didn't do before/after cause I couldn't wait pimping ;)

Gesendet von meinem Nexus 4 mit Tapatalk 2
[Nexus 4 General] the_chinaman:
This is a very interesting thread and some amazing investigative work by OP.

Has anyone with a later batch phone opened it up to see if LG have added the thermal pad?
[Nexus 4 General] jetcz:
did that copper/grease mod hoping it will help reduce lags in gta 3, but it did not helped as the lags are caused by bad optimizations of the game, not by throttling... on the other hand, the phone heats up more evenly, there are no hotspots as before, so i guess thats good...
[Nexus 4 General] undercover:
Re: Nexus 4; Investigating thermal throttling [HardMod]

One thing for sure. N4 is helluva easier to open up than ipad. :screwy:
[Nexus 4 General] MisterWinkey:
Re: Nexus 4; Investigating thermal throttling [HardMod]

Tempmonitor app does not seem to work with Franco kernel......anyone have a suggestion?

My phone is a 302k and only about a couple weeks old.....mine did not have anything.

Perhaps someone with the new "feet" bottom has it?
[Nexus 4 General] younix258:
Re: Nexus 4; Investigating thermal throttling [HardMod]

Tempmonitor works on franco r72 for me
[Nexus 4 General] MisterWinkey:
Re: Nexus 4; Investigating thermal throttling [HardMod]

I am on milestone 1 and it gives me an error about the wrong kernel.

Wrong app maybe? Link?
[Nexus 4 General] -JFK-:
I have never found 0.8mm thermal pads, only 0.5 and 1mm.

I have buy 0.5 and 1mm and test both.

The 1mm is too thick and I was afraid to broke the mother board with the pressure.

Not good at all to have electronical component under mecanical stress during the heating.

With the 0.5m that I have gave the link, all feet perfectly (I have just cut a little bit the pad to reduce the size to 14x14mm).

You right, no need for thermal compound.

Little tips : don't touch the CPU and the zinc-allow frame with your finger, thoses two surfaces should be as clean as possible.

If someone is stress about it, I propose to give you my Skype ID and we can do the mod together.

Regards
[Nexus 4 General] troun2000:
Following problems of people for viewing pictures, I added a PDF version.

People who made mod with thermal Pad, some temperatures may be interesting for comparing with copper mod. I would likely add them in first page.
[Nexus 4 General] -JFK-:
Re: Nexus 4; Investigating thermal throttling [HardMod] [v1.1]

What do you want? I'll do it.

Edit : I have just run "stability test" app. And do a screen shot every 30sec.

Starting battery t° : 26.1°c

Room t° : 20°c

It have start to throttle at 12'26.

This is the first time for me that the throttle is linked to the battery t° ;)

So the next question is : How to cool the battery ! I will add thermal pad on battery too.