yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Nexus 4 General] undercover:
Unfortunately antenna design change is not as simple as putting a bit of copper in. So nope.

Sent from my sandwich maker. Make: LG Model: N⁴
[Nexus 4 General] yev.gavrikov:
My modification and results

Tested with antutu

before mod

After MOD
[Nexus 4 General] Ƶero:
i think you guys putting way too much thermal paste onto it... a little bit is enough or it ends up just getting higher temperatures instead of lower ones...

i mean look at this video and you understand how much it needs =) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EyXLu1Ms-q4

and when i look at your pics, they are coverd with thermal paste xD its funny actually but not very healthy =/

the video doesnt show you how much you need to put on, but how it spreads (CPU) same goes with copper shim etc.. just don't overdo it, or you might harm your nexus 4

regarding his explanation: It is not necessary to cover the whole CPU/heat spreader. Because most of the heat is concentrated around the core area which is at the center. Hence the center of the CPU is more important.
[Nexus 4 General] undercover:
Simples. We cannot ensure even pressure and full adjustment since we can't make sure both surfaces are flat (need special tools for that) . So, logically thinking, since paste is a better heat conductor than air (by miles) it's better to out more and get it to be pushed out when you put the board in, just to be safe.

Sent from my CRT TV. Make: LG Model: N⁴
[Nexus 4 General] troun2000:
Quite a while I haven't been here... (but no really any new question/request, so I do not feel really guilty :p )

Gravikov -> very nice log of your temperatures and seriously impressed by the repetition of temperatures graphs, they are different, for sure, but incredibly similar! I could not imagine that Antutu could manage such reproducible results.

However, it is absolutely not surprising that the temperatures before/after mod are the same as Antutu is a light pretty old and quite short benchmark, especially testing not only CPU/GPU but also I/Os. If you want to reveal differences, you should use an heavier benchmark. To give a rough comparison, it is a bit like testing CPU or GPU cooler by running PCmark05 (which also features some CPU and GPU tests). It may not show big difference between stock and third party cooler temperatures.

More generally, temperature of a system is function of difference of what goes in minus what goes out ( dT = f ( Pin - Pout ) ). What this mod does is to improve heat release capacity (Pout). If you want to see a temperature difference Pin - Pout has not to be ~null, so Pin has to be big enough.

+1 with Undercover, material (even the last ****y thermal paste) is (almost) always better than air (this is why insulating material usually trap some...air...)
[Nexus 4 General] Ƶero:
yea, i understand, its totally different from cpu with pressure on it, still looks wrong to me with so much thermal paste :silly:, however i couldnt see from last pics if it had effect or not...

i know heat sink mod from my old netbook and that it worked there but this isn't so clear to me on nexus 4 with copper shim however it makes sense that google didn't used smth better for cooling cause copper shim isn't really that cheap for device.

edit: so all i would need to do is buy 15x15 0.5mm copper shim and put on both sides thermal paste and put it at the position seen on pic and thats it?

shortly said, using copper shim + thermal paste is better then letting it stay with the 0,5mm deep air space, that makes sense
[Nexus 4 General] smayonak:
Possible to Improve Thermal Dissipation Even More?

Does anyone think it's possible to improve the N4's cooling even further?

It looks like there's a few other hardpoints on the metal frame where there's direct metal-to-metal contact. According to the iFixit website, the metal shielded components come directly into contact with the frame, without the blue anti-ESD tape getting in the way. Perhaps we could add thermal paste to see what happens?

What if we removed the anti-ESD tape? We could then have direct die to metal contact, buffered by thermal paste. I know that sounds stupid - it probably is, but I'm curious as to whether or not it would work.
[Nexus 4 General] Ƶero:
well i don't know what would happen but when i read smth about ESD tape it says its to protect areas of the motherboard from heat and voltage, so might protect things under it from heat from cpu?

would be funny if that would do any good but i wouldn't want to try that out with my nexus 4 =)

and yes i think its possible to improve cooling any further but i dont think removing esd tape is the right thing, cause it has to be there for a good reason.
[Nexus 4 General] myturbo1:
Is it bad if i play mc4 online for 10-15 min and my phone reaches 128-133°f ?

It has got hot enough before I turned the phone off for awhile. Not sure what the temp was.
[Nexus 4 General] Ƶero:
128-133°f meaning about 53,3 - 56,1 degrees, if its about battery, then its pretty high, if its cpu temperature you don't have to worry about it, that's normal.

and its normal that the phone gets hot when you play a game, even with uv it gets warm, i never tested but i think it stays way cooler then without uv.

meaning i uv'ed my nexus 4 but i never tried to play a game and measure the temperature with it.
[Nexus 4 General] raidrom:
I picked up article silver 5 and also I'm going to fold and use aluminum foil .just cause the computer geeks said that will work just as good and less of a await time . but like my old devices like htcs I had added aluminum foil under the battery and it worked great to reduce temps and it filled some gaps . you think some thermal paste and some aluminum foil under the battery will help? I mean since I'm down there so to speak
[Nexus 4 General] undercover:
Not a bad shout. In theory, solid copper is a better conductor, but at these temps and loads it shouldn't make much of the difference. IF you decide to do it then apply some paste on each layer of foil before folding it and then squeeze it out with something flat, just apply loaf's of pressure. This should make it as close to solid piece of aluminium as possible.

Sent from my VHS player. Make: LG Model: N⁴
[Nexus 4 General] raidrom:
Haha my phone doesn't get hot anymore .I used the grill inserts for your stove lol its thicker and like .5 mm folded in 2 . I put the artic silver all underneath and on top and also where buddy showed a few posts up.under that tray .then I put the rest of my article silver under the battery in that big compartment and added just a peice of the thick aluminum under it as well . it was a little fight to get the cover on . but man it was so worth it ! I'm running 1.8ghz now and

My battery is 33 degrees Celsius after 5 mins or so . since the phone is stiffer I can also lower my vibration a bit since I feel it more now . but that's a lot for this article dude
[Nexus 4 General] Neefy:
What screwdriver do I need?
[Nexus 4 General] jaggyjags:
T5 screwdriver.
[Nexus 4 General] Apnea123:
Hi,

Anyone know if the new White Nexus 4 has any manufacturing tweak that has fixed the thermal throttling issue ?

Thanks,

Apnea
[Nexus 4 General] meangreenie:
Unless they put a fridge in there, probably no.. current software is set to throttle at just 36 degrees celcius via the battery sensor.. normal ambient air temperature in hot places can push that close or more.
[Nexus 4 General] Ƶero:
is it now good to use the hardmod or not ? Can anyone who use the hardmod tell me if its worth doing the mod cause some were speaking of increased temperature on the screen can anyone tell me how it works for you, cause i really would like to do the mod too and already bought T5 screwdiver only need the copper shim, and does only 0,5mm copper shim work, so 0,8mm is too thick?

increasing the time until it throttles meaning better cooling for cpu?

i wonder if 2x 0,3mm copper shim work, or is there just enough place for 0,5mm? (cause 0,3mm is easiert to get for me...)
[Nexus 4 General] smayonak:
OP mentioned that he measured the height difference using calipers. You can probably get away with a thicker material if you're using a thermal pad or carbon fiber. The folded aluminum foil is probably a much better bet than using a thicker copper component. If you place too much pressure on the CPU/RAM stack, there's a real chance for causing damage.
[Nexus 4 General] undercover:
Hello everyone. Quick question. Has anyone noticed decreased gps performance since doing the mod?

Sent from my washing machine. Make: LG, Model: N⁴
[Nexus 4 General] morrislee:
Nope. But now its summer, phone is getting hot as if I never did the mod in winter. I am using sterling silver shim
[Nexus 4 General] undercover:
Mine is sitting safely on the dashboard most of the time, right above aircon. :) So, no problems with heat.

Sent from my washing machine. Make: LG, Model: N⁴
[Nexus 4 General] Ƶero:
well i just bought 4x copper shim 0,3mm (the only ones i could get here) + pad 15x15x0,5mm and pad 15x15x1,0mm (just to be safe).

i'll see what works, the pad should work 100% and the rest i'll see.

but cause the copper has far higher thermal conductivity i really would like to use it instead of pad (5W) where copper has ~ 400W.

i know that copper 0,5mm works but i only have 0.3mm so i would use 2x 0.3mm (if it fits, or copper + 0.5mm pad if pad is soft enough) or just the pad in worst case, cause i don't really like pads.. good thing they're easy to apply. the manufacturer of the pad name is phobya, the name tells me nothing, someone knows smth about it?
[Nexus 4 General] smayonak:
There's a real possibility that this mod can impact GPS, Wi-Fi, Bluetooth, wireless charging, wireless video out and other features. But no one else has reported any problems.
[Nexus 4 General] undercover:
Not saying it did. Just investigating my current issue.

Sent from my washing machine. Make: LG, Model: N⁴
[Nexus 4 General] Ƶero:
i just thought about it, could it be better to use thermal pad instead of copper shim ?

Cause when i think about it, the Nexus 4 has no openings where the heat could go out as on pc tower. (heat goes from cpu over heatsink into air and out of pc tower).

So transfering the heat from the cpu over the copper shim to the back metal frame isn't a problem ?

The copper has better conductivity then the metal frame, so i thought that it could lead to heat accumulation and produce even more heat with the copper shim then without it?

In short wouldn't the copper shim produce more heat cause it's getting hot and emits heat itself + cpu heat = more heat then without copper shim?
[Nexus 4 General] smayonak:
Installed the copper shim + paste and have some results to share:

Configuration:

Matr1x kernel 9.0 on AOKP.

Copper shim using crushed diamond thermal paste.

I also thermal pasted the battery to the metal frame.

100mV undervolt

Time to throttle:

2:11 seconds to throttle down to 1350 MHz. Starting battery temp around 23C. Battery temperature hit 41.2C, and the CPU remained at 1350MHz for over ten minutes, at which point I decided to conclude the test.

Don't worry about that. Bottlenecks in heatsinks this small aren't a big deal. Sometimes Impurities within the thermal compound, airpockets and other things can cause heat to spike on larger computers. Here's the thing - air is a better insulator than solid metal. If you fill that n4's gap in, though, it will transfer heat more efficiently into the frame of the phone. As long as the heat from the CPU is being transferred into a larger body, such as a metal frame, it's going to dissipate faster than if it was focused in a single spot.
[Nexus 4 General] Ohgami_Ichiro:
Any way the OP can repost the Pics in the 1st post?
[Nexus 4 General] Ƶero:
i did the mod now with 2x 0,3mm copper shims, they seemed to fit perfectly

but i dont know if there is contact with the metal frame on the back cause the copper shims after pressure were stuck on the cpu and i didn't used so many thermal paste. (is that a problem?)

edit: running faux kernel... no throttling 1,9ghz smth wrong, cpu temperature 77° battery at 40,5° but never goes higher than that

guess i try out how it works with franco kernel (same with franco kernel, battery temperature rises fast but stops around ~40°

franco kernel start at 30,5° battery temp

1:10 min 32°

3:11 min 35,3°

5:00 min 38,0° cpu temp 65° (throttles) bit disappointing..
[Nexus 4 General] smayonak:
There appears to be a breaking in period for the thermal compound. It needs to cure before it starts working properly. I initially started throttling at around 2 minutes into stress-testing. After a 24-hour period, I found that throttling started at around 5 minutes 30 seconds.

I also JUST increased my upper limit UV values from 1050 mV to 1000 mV for 1.5GHz and from (not sure) 1025 to 1000 mV for 1.35GHz. I'll report my modified UV values + the cured thermal compound when time permits. Thanks again for doing the ground work on this, OP. Brilliant work.

Nice! The closer you get the copper to the die, the better the heat transfer. Hopefully this doesn't cause problems in the future though.
[Nexus 4 General] Ƶero:
ah, ok, then i will wait and see how it works the next few days, i really had a lot of problems opening the case even with the video my case fit 100% perfectly, so sim card slot broke the plastic and the corners are bit ugly now but i can live with that.

my UV settings might work with you nexus 4 since you had 1050mV on 1,5ghz

im using 1025mV for 1,5ghz cause when i put lower frequency the camera app doesnt work properly anymore and pics getting green or red dots. (1 in 30 )

384- 700

486 - 725

594 - 750

702 - 775

1026 - 825

1188 - 900

1350 - 950

1512 - 1025

im still having 1 or 2 reboots a day but idk if its due to UV or rom issue or other kernel panic but im staying with those values now for about 4-5 month and every time i changed them slightly down i just getting more problems so i always came back to my values.

edit: you were right now throttling at 7:30 39° battery before at 5:XX turned out now to be better than before, gonna wait and see in few days how its going on
[Nexus 4 General] endursa:
I also did the mod and could not see an improvement that significant as OP, I figured maybe it's because throttling is bound to battery temperature which actually rizes If I let the heat go to the backplate. The battery is attached to said backplate, so maybe one sees an improvement if the glue is removed and the battery gets isolated from the heat?

Gesendet von meinem Nexus 4
[Nexus 4 General] undercover:
It's actually throttles by EITHER cpu or battery temp, whichever hits the threshold first.
[Nexus 4 General] Deusx Machina:
Graphite Foil

Hey all, I just recently got a nexus 4 and it's a great phone, but it definitely overheats. Browsing XDA I stumbled upon this very interesting mod and was curious if anyone has tried it with graphite foil yet (searched the thread and didn't find anything, if someone's already done it I apologize) Since the OP it seems like it has become easier to get graphite foil for relatively cheap ( http://www.ebay.com/itm/Graphite-Fl...Parts_Accessories&hash=item27d0865ed5&vxp=mtr and http://www.ebay.com/itm/Graphite-Fl...Parts_Accessories&hash=item27d086603e&vxp=mtr )
[Nexus 4 General] Globespy:
Sorry..post cancelled
[Nexus 4 General] smayonak:
It takes about 24-48 hours for most thermal pastes to "set in". Wait a few days before benching it again. I applied thermal paste to the battery and it actually slightly reduced battery temps.

Thanks! I think the issue is that there aren't any graphoils that have the right thickness. 0.75 mm is 0.25 more than we need. Graphoil is flexible enough to fit, though. I may give it a shot. But it would be ideal to have graphoil thickness between 0.020" and 0.025"
[Nexus 4 General] Deusx Machina:
Doh! Didn't notice that it was in inches and not millimeters. Hopefully the .030" could work, if you do end up trying it do let me (and everyone else in this thread of course!) know how it goes. Perhaps the seller has some graphite foil in the .020" - .025" thickness range, I might contact him tomorrow to see.
[Nexus 4 General] troun2000:
What is the problem with the pictures in 1st post?

Thanks for your multiple useful interventions/answers in this post!

Thanks for the links, I will add them to the one in 1st post.

Yes, best may be ~0.6mm, but if not available, I suggest 0.75mm as graphite foils can be slightly compressed:
[Nexus 4 General] argodak:
pure software fix, faux123 kernel stock rom

I just got my nexus 4 last month and did some testing and the throttling was pretty bad (as expected), I ordered silver and copper plates to install and see which works better but I am still waiting for delivery. While waiting couldn't help my self not to try changing the kernel and see how that works and the result was AMAZING!

So now I am running a stock rom (4.2.2) with faux123 kernel (the non overclocked version) , cpu max 1512mhz, cpu min 162mhz, global 100mv underlvolt, mpdecision off, governor - ondemand,eco mode on;

throttling with this kernel works differently - first throttling is to 1350mhz when 41c is reached and then full throttling to 1026mhz which I think is not linked to battery temp but cpu temp, battery temp never goes higher than 43c

here are my test results:

start temp - 30c

first throttle to 1350mhz after 21min at 41c

second throttle to 1026mhz after 29min at 42.5c

31min cpu goes back to 1350mhz - temp 41.8

had it running for 10min after that (total 41min) and the last ten the cpu was changing between 1026 and 1350mhz never got hotter that 43c

after seeing this test I gave up the idea of putting the plates in, this is more than ok, in fact I don't think there is phone out there that can show better numbers than those.

If someone wants pure soft fix can use that as ref, I can also repeat the test an take some snapshots if someone wants to see as I didn't expect such good results and didn't think I'll post it when I was testing.

keep in mind that with this kernel and eco mode on benchmarks are the same if not just slightly better with stock and nowhere close to top performance kernels like trinity
[Nexus 4 General] meangreenie:
yeah faux kernel changes the thermald.conf file
[Nexus 4 General] smayonak:
Thanks! I ordered the .75mm grafoil (graphoil) and will let everyone know how it went. There's going to be plenty of extra material, too, in case anyone wants some.

Troun2000, do you think we should use thermal paste on the grafoil/graphoil/graphite foil?

I believe eco mode in Faux123 kernel runs only two cores, not all four. I don't think most apps are even optimized for multithreading, so you probably won't even notice the performance drop-off.
[Nexus 4 General] argodak:
further testing

I am a bit lost about that, I thought originally that it's two core for the UI but if you start a very demanding up it will still use four cores, then I red the kernel thread and it just reads that is a dual core mod, which will imply at all times but then again when you run stress test you can clearly see that all cores are doing the cycles...

Eco mode doesn't really feel different in the ui and even most games, but I was wrong about benches, it score slightly below or equal to stock and but antutu is a lot less than stock, like >4000 less

anyway with eco mode on it's safe to say that there is no throttling problem at all, if eco mode is off with intellidemand governor is still way better than stock

ran two tests of 30 min eco mode of, intellidemand governor, min freq 384mhz and 125mv undervolt results were pretty much the same both times:

start temperature - 30.8c

time to first throttlle - 6.55min, temp 40.8c, freq 1350mhz

time to second throttle - 9.30min, temp 41.9c, freq 1134mhz

after that the temp is stable around 41.3 for the next 10 min, after 20 min of the start the temp sometimes goes towards 42.8-42.9 then third throttle to 1026mhz kicks in for 15-20 seconds in which time the temp goes very fast down to 42.1c and clock goes back to 1134mhz. Basically after 20 min the third throttle to 1026mhz kicks in every 2-3 min for 15-20 seconds at a time so 43c is never reached

on a side note when playing games it seems it never goes to full throttle, after playing Modern Combat 4 for 55min the temp was 40.5c, which means it was running on 1350mhz, SG:DeadZone was simillar - after 1hour of play the temp was 41c so it seems just the first throttle is enough for games (this is not the case for stock al all)

I am quite happy with this result actually, no more 50c and more like stock. It would seems that quite good results can be achieved just with custom rom and/or kernel

now once my plates and thermal paste come in, If I can extend another 2-3 min till first throttle and maybe add some more time till secondary throttle it will be just perfect.

will post result when that happens, but I am off going abroad tomorrow and it would seem I won't get it today so it may be a while, good the soft fix is performing so well.
[Nexus 4 General] troun2000:
Graphoil is usually used as thermal interface material (TIM) when you can not use 'traditional' thermal paste (high temperature, vacuum...). So you can use it, for sure, without adding thermal paste, especially because the one you orderer is thick enough to ensure good contact through compression.

To predict if the add of thermal paste will improve or reduce efficiency is pretty difficult. If it does improve efficiency, it will be with very good quality thermal paste and extremely thin layer of it.

If you decide to go for one single try, I would go without thermal paste, however, it may be interesting to be able to compare both.

Some precision; once you replace the gap with some material with reasonable thermal conductivity, performances of cooling are limited by dissipation (ie, outer surfaces), so using gold, silver or diamond instead of copper or aluminium may not reduce, significantly you temperatures. In other words, do not spend too much money in these shims.
[Nexus 4 General] :
Hi there I just bought my nexus 4 today and i made some test to see the problem of thermal throttling...after 15 min of stability test my temp is around 41-42...mine is the stock rom with the stock kernel...and it's the white version if this matters...do you think mine is afected to?
[Nexus 4 General] meangreenie:
yeah, if battery sensor goes over 36 degrees it will throttle, it's written in the software, no hardmod (except some kind of active cooling/refrigeration) will stop it.
[Nexus 4 General] smayonak:
OK guys, I went ahead and installed the Grafoil/Graphoil/graphite shims. I slightly shaved it down a bit, though, which may have impacted my scores. I also applied thermal paste to my battery, which could have also impacted battery temps.

If anyone wants a graphite shim, I'm willing to share. Send me a PM if you're interested. I only want the cost of shipping + materials. It shouldn't be more than a few dollars.

Kernel: Faux123 16m

ROM: Paranoid Android 3.68

Initial battery temp: 30.3C

Shim type: Grafoil

UV: -112.5 mV

Underclock: 1458 mhz

Time to Throttle: No throttle detected. Tests concluded after 14 minutes of stress testing.

Time to 36C: 1:56 seconds

Note: The temperature doesn't go above 43C. It seems to stabilize at that point? Doesn't that indicate a throttle? If so, Stress Test doesn't show a change in the CPU's frequency.

EDIT: I ran the Stability Test again after a settling in period. I removed the underclock and restored the 1.5 GHz frequency. The time to hit 36C rose to 4:49 after the settling in period, with a starting temp of 24.5C. Stability Test didn't detect a throttle, either. However, I should note that I have also pasted the battery with TIM.

In kernels other than Faux123, the throttling is apparent in Stress Test. The CPU visibly decreases frequency around 36 C. But in Faux123, the CPU frequency doesn't change. Did he somehow manage to change the throttle temp?
[Nexus 4 General] Raijin:
Making this mod will void the warranty, true?
[Nexus 4 General] -JFK-:
Theoretically yes, but I haven't found anything inside that permit know.

Be careful and do not scratch the head of the screws, I guess no one will know.