yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Nexus 4 General] pikachukaki:
Heating problem exist on RL situation??like browsing or facebook?or only on heavy games and benchmarks???is this really needed??
[Nexus 4 General] Jayrod1980:
Re: Nexus 4; Investigating thermal throttling [HardMod] [v1.1]

That isn't even on the right chip! Thats a shim on the ram!
[Nexus 4 General] younix258:
Re: Nexus 4; Investigating thermal throttling [HardMod] [v1.1]

My understanding is that the cpu is hindden under the ram chip in this phone
[Nexus 4 General] Techguy18:
yes.. the ram is placed on top of the SoC.. all the contacts of the RAM connect via the surrounding contacts.. this ensures less latency between the cpu and memory.. even ifixit noted that the cpu+gpu is under the ram..
[Nexus 4 General] 0rigin:
Additional 1cm of wire doesn't give you any latency.
[Nexus 4 General] easyxtarget:
It absolutely does. It could add a whole cycle to a memory operation (gasp!)
[Nexus 4 General] Jiia:
Okay wow, you probalby won't believe this because it's 1st of April. I just managed to destroy my Nexus doing this mod. It was a pain in the ass to pry the back cover open but after that it wen't pretty smoothly. I applied the copper pad and thermal paste correctly and then put the PCB back.

At this point things wen't horribly wrong. I forgot to add the black plastic cover on top of the PCB. So I tightened the screws right on the PCB and then noticed I had forgot the plastic cover. I removed all the screws, put the cover on the PCB and then fastened the screws again. I flipped over the phone...

The screws had gone so deep that they had shattered the IPS-panel in three different spots. I turned the phone on and the screen was totally broken: it was just plain gray and some weird colours everywhere. Other than that the phone seems to be operating normally. The screen turns on and off with the power button and I can backup my stuff via USB.

So now I'm looking for ordering a replacement screen for about 95€. Hopefully I can manage to install it without doing something stupid like this.
[Nexus 4 General] 0rigin:
At first you were like: :silly:

But then you turned the phone around: :eek: :rolleyes:

I feel you bro. When I shattered my screen I managed to get it replaced(+battery) for 90€, but I'm from Slovenia and stuff is cheaper here. The battery is glued pretty solid to the front plate and there is always a possibility of rupturing it when replacing the screen.
[Nexus 4 General] undercover:
Re: Nexus 4; Investigating thermal throttling [HardMod] [v1.1]

Best option is to warm it up before trying to get it off. Jay, as others said, it is assumed that CPU is under ram.
[Nexus 4 General] Jayrod1980:
Re: Nexus 4; Investigating thermal throttling [HardMod] [v1.1]

For the guy that broke his screen... I feel for you. There are lots of parts for sale on eBay. Rather than just buying the screen, if I were you I would buy a while front kit. It will probably be no more than the cost of a screen and a replacement battery but it is the screen plus most if not all of the small parts including a pre glued battery. I wouldn't mess around with trying to pry that battery off and risk damaging the phone further. With the kit you save yourself a load of time as well. Only downside to a new screen is that your back might creak and have some give to it. I affixed a different back on mine and something about the screen and the back don't fit right together because there is some give in two spots of the black plastic. I might have pried it too hard though and enlarged the clip holes or something when I took it apart the first time so you might be OK. Even the tape solution did not work for me to remedy this. Also, if you have creak or give in the border areas you need to be careful with the tape because the antenna are in these areas and you don't want to mess with the contacts or the reception of your phone. Overall with the hard mod I can't tell much difference in feel with the heat on the back. Phone feels a little warmer overall but that area over the soc still feels the warmest part of the phone.
[Nexus 4 General] Tendou:
Just did this mod, cut a piece of copper shim out of an old motherboard heatsink. It was a tad thin at 0.4mm so I spammed a tad more thermal paste, feels like it's working, but upon reading the rest of the posts, I'm getting throttled around the 6 min mark, so the shim must've been too thin. I did open my phone up again to check to see if at least the thermal paste is in contact, and confirmed to be true, I am not going to open the phone up the 3rd time it's already showing some gaps on the left, given up.
[Nexus 4 General] scampupy:
are there no updates here?
[Nexus 4 General] undercover:
No need. All is covered.

No no no, I'm not a grammar Nazi. I'm a grammar Commie!
[Nexus 4 General] morrislee:
After doing some research, silver is a better thermal conductive material.... I did this mod already and noticed the same shop I bought my copper from sells sterling silver (92.5% silver)!

I will update when I finish modding with Sterling Silver with Arctic Silver 5

Silver silver silver silver silver silver silver silver silver silver silver silver silver!!!
[Nexus 4 General] -JFK-:
lol !!! SILVER !

I have change mine (5w/mK) by that one : http://www.fujipoly.com/usa/product...er-pads/high-performance-gap-filler/xr-m.html

It's 17w/mK same thermal conductivity as the Artic Silver past, can't find best one on the planet...

I have receive two sample, so I have one left and can send it.
[Nexus 4 General] morrislee:
My current N4 has GPS issues, when the new one comes on Monday, this piece of silver is going in! I will post some pictures during the process :D
[Nexus 4 General] morrislee:
Looking at the teardown of the Samsung Galaxy S4 shown something not alien to what we are doing, check the 5th image down here:

http://www.technobuffalo.com/videos/samsung-galaxy-s4-teardown-video/

Looks like they are using thermal pads to spread the heat to the base frame which looks like the same material/metal used on the Nexus 4
[Nexus 4 General] undercover:
I bet they stole idea from op. We should sue Samsung.

No no no, I'm not a grammar Nazi. I'm a grammar Commie!
[Nexus 4 General] MeatyMutaWings:
the question is, if the cpu is under the ram chips, wouldn't the ram chips completely bottleneck the heat transfer?

I'm thinking about taking the easy way with thermal pads. If the ram chips themselves aren't good at conducting heat, I don't see why I'd get picky on the material. :silly: but if you have the right silver on hand might as well use it. And you can brag about the silver component in your phone ;)
[Nexus 4 General] morrislee:
Exactly that! Bragging rights! And the fact that I am opening my phone, might as well go all in, the Sterling Silver 1.5x1.5cm (I think it is actually 0.6mm with my caliper measuring, going to sand it down more, but I got the 0.8mm copper to work just fine) costs me $2.54 Canadian, and the Copper only was like $0.25 Canadian, ahahaha.

Trying to look for a piece of copper film to just lay it on top of the entire back of the phone like HTC DNA has inside, keeps the heat completely distributed overall. Where to find this thickness with the tape already on?
[Nexus 4 General] zim2dive:
Their thermal pad has rounded corners :)
[Nexus 4 General] undercover:
So are mine! it's not in the OP though... MY GOD!!! They watched me doing the mod via my webcam they hacked!!!!! Where is my tinfoil hat.....:eek::eek::eek::silly::silly::silly::silly:
[Nexus 4 General] Jiia:
I'm the guy who broke his screen. Just reporting back that replacing the screen worked out wonderfully and my phone is like brand new. I ordered the whole front kit without battery, so it wasn't any more work than just adding the thermal pad. The site was parts4repair.com

The heat now distributes more evenly on both sides of the phone but it still gets much hotter around the upper part where the CPU lies. I haven't conducted any throttling tests yet but I'd assume they should be a little bit better but not by a great margin.
[Nexus 4 General] undercover:
Poor sod :(

I'm glad you got your device back up and running though :good:
[Nexus 4 General] troun2000:
You're welcomed, it is always nice to learn this was useful to someone.

This picture is only to illustrate what it may looks like the other way, and how big is the shim. I should probably label it.

Even if continuously sticked to 1Ghz, a Snapdragon S4 may gives some smooth and pleasant everyday experience, especially with light use.

This mod allows you to get the most out your N4 (especially with 3D games) and to get a more comfortable (or less annoying) repartition of the heat.
[Nexus 4 General] troun2000:
Thanks for reporting, I'll add a warning in first page.

Remember that all phones are differents, throttling is also depending on lots of differents parameters (room temperature, background apps, custom ROM/kernel, UV...), so do not worry and just enjoy :)

Do you have any suggestions? ;)

(I actualise regularly, at least I try, first post with peoples updates)

Do not worry, I made a work placement in Apple R&D and before posting mod, I registered some patents on "cooling chips with piece of material", "making contact between chip and frame with conductive material", "using thermal pad for helping cooling mobile phone SoC", "speading mobile phone heat through its frame", "using phone heat capacity"...(and a few others).

Sorry dude, rounded corners have already their patent since Ipad was invented, this why I did not used them, I did not wanted to risk a trial.
[Nexus 4 General] scampupy:
Nah, I don't have any suggestions here I'm just lurking this thread and thinking when I will do the mod I got all the materials needed... But I am thinking that my N4 is a defective overheating unit so I want Lg to replace my n4 first before I mod it. But the LG center here at the Philippines suck...

these are my temps

Apps for getting my temperature,

Elixir 2 - Battery Temp

System Tuner - CPU Temp

The Thermometer - Room Temp

Idle Temp: with 3g on ( I know about wifi gps 3g is on etc etc. that it would demand the CPU more, BUT it is the normal conditions of a smartphone)

Room Temp - 31c

Battery Temp - 37.6c

CPU Temp - 42c

Watching Movie (30mins) : with 3g on

Room Temp - 31c

Battery Temp - 39c

CPU Temp - 50c

Playing Avabel online 3d RPG (30mins)

Room Temp - 31c

Battery Temp - 50c

CPU Temp - 67c

and they are telling me that my phone is normal WTF?
[Nexus 4 General] undercover:
Holy moly!

Get it changed. WiFi. In room temp my phone idles at bat under 20, cpu 20-25. In normal use battery is 28-32 cpu is 34-38.

Hoooold on. Normal room temp is considered 18-21. Wtf is your room doing at 31? :eek: Ah, Philippines. Hot. At that ambient temperature I think your temps are normal.

No no no, I'm not a grammar Nazi. I'm a grammar Commie!
[Nexus 4 General] troun2000:
Original post updated; quick thermal throttling definition, Jiia breaking screen mis-fortune and several user bench added.

For those, please verify in table that values and mod information are correctly reported.

Other contribution welcomed (thermal pad without UV?)
[Nexus 4 General] troun2000:
I agree with undercover, your temperatures are high, but considering your ambient temperature and N4 configuration ("insulated") I am not really surprised by your results.

Try to make your unit changed, and in all cases go for under-volting combined with this hard-mod.

PS: your case may be very interesting to be added in first post. Could you please install stability test and report your results.
[Nexus 4 General] scampupy:
The LG center here wont accept my request for a replacement :| I hate LG here they suck..., If they wont really accept my request I'll be forced to hard mod and under volt my nexus 4.

I really want to have a good conditioned unit so that after the MOD it will be More cooler rather than modding an overheating device.

"PS: your case may be very interesting to be added in first post. Could you please install stability test and report your results."

Uhhh I cant do the stability test now because it is night already and we are using the aircon. I'll do the stability test tomorrow

---------- Post added at 10:54 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:49 PM ----------

Were using aircon now.. and my batt temp idle mode with wifi is 25c my nexus4 sucks.

Question:

what app could i use to accurately measure my room temperature? I dont have a thermometer :|
[Nexus 4 General] younix258:
Might wanna add silver to list of possible materials for shim. Also might wanna put that throttle is cause by cpu and not battery.
[Nexus 4 General] MisterWinkey:
Normal CPU or FAST?

My battery temp at idle is between 20-25c depending on room temp.

Biggest thing I noticed after the mod and undervolt by -125 is that it takes a heck of a long time to get warm enough to throttle.
[Nexus 4 General] guru_urug:
Hey guys, I recently bought a nexus 4 16gb well aware that the phone has an overheating problem. I live in India so got the phone unofficially therefore no warranty. :(

I am on stock 4.2.2 I ran stability test for 15 mins.

Room temp was 30-31 deg Celsius.

Idle temp: battery 31.8 Celsius, cpu 41 celsius

After 15 min of test

The battery temp stabilized at around 45 deg....once reached 46 but came down again. CPU temp reached 74deg Celsius.

Is this normal ?

I am using a basic s-line tpu case similar to the mercury one in the US.
[Nexus 4 General] undercover:
Yeah, normal. Someone from Philippines reported very similar temps. Don't forget your ambient temperature is quite high. I guess it would be worth doing the mod and undervolting anyone, should take temps down a notch.

Sent from my fridge. Make: LG Model: N⁴
[Nexus 4 General] MisterWinkey:
My battery temp is about 1 deg higher than room temp pretty consistently.

I think most of us in the US will see similar things once summer hits here.....
[Nexus 4 General] morrislee:
As I promised to show you all my silvers :D

Ran like 3 x quadrants, 2 x 3dmarks, still have not seen it go above 38c using faux 14tbu at 1.944GHz max and 162MHz min with -100mV across the board

This is a brand new Nexus 4 haha, I think the silver was worth it.
[Nexus 4 General] younix258:
Very cool. Nice job
[Nexus 4 General] troun2000:
I add Morrislee post as Silver reference in material list.

Concerning throttling, it was already modified that it is cause by both battery and SoC temperature relative upper limit.

Interesting, could you please do a stability test and report starting temperature and time to throttle (just like in original post table). :good:

However, I have doubt that we see a very big difference between copper and silver as they have almost same thermal conductivity.
[Nexus 4 General] morrislee:
Alright! If I remember after work, then I will. Been distracted by my new Raspberry Pi board since yesterday!! Haha
[Nexus 4 General] morrislee:
Test setup:

Room temp: ~24c

Location: on top of my desk

Power: Battery power, not charging

Environment: My hot breath ~30c breathed onto the phone watching it cook

ROM: CyanogenMod 10.1 M3

Kernel: Faux mako kernel v 014m

Brightness: Auto

Kernel settings: Max: 1512MHz, Min: 162MHz, Ondemand, mpdecision: ON, GPU Max: 400, GPU: Ondemand

Software: StabilityTest v2.7 using Classic Stability Test

Mod: Sterling Silver 0.6mm & Arctic Silver 5

Case/Bumper: None

First results in, no undervolt (what a joke, compare it to the NEXT result. I was playing with undervolting today and forgot to set it again). This is what I have observed:

21c @ 00:00 1512MHz

36c @ 05:53 1512MHz - Where stock should first throttle

39c @ 08:59 1512MHz - Where stock should second throttle

41c @ 11:13 1350MHz - Where faux should first throttle

42c @ 15:60 1134MHz - Where faux should second throttle

41c @ 20:00 1134MHz

As you can see, it took a good 10 minutes for it to downclock from faux's rules, I am not sure if this can be added to OP's chart because the thermal threshold is different from stock, it starts downclocking at 41c

At 20 minute mark, I see it bouncing between the 1134MHz and 1350MHz, so there was no point continuing until I have -125mV downvolt.

With -125mV, WOW! BIG difference, same testing environment, about 20-30 minute later when it is at ~21c again:

21c @ 00:00 1512MHz

36c @ 10:15 1512MHz - Where stock should first throttle

39c @ 16:32 1512MHz - Where stock should second throttle

40c @ 20:00 1512MHz

My result? 20 minutes, no throttling relative using faux's kernel and undervolt = SUCCESS!! Silver probably does make a difference here HAHA

Realism test setup changed attributes:

Room temp: ~26c - heater on

Location: in my hands, back covered 80-90% area

Power: Battery power, charging

Brightness: Full brightness

Software: StabilityTest v2.7 using CPU+GPU Stability Test

25c @ 00:00 1512MHz - What temperature I usually see when I take it out of my pocket

36c @ 08:12 1512MHz - Where stock should first throttle

39c @ 16:32 1512MHz - Where stock should second throttle

40c @ 20:00 1512MHz

Interesting result, at 20 minutes, it is actually still just below 40c. Take this result as a grain of salt, I don't think this test was stressful enough.

May be a good idea to state your kernel, because they all might have different throttle rules, you can check the details in the file thermald.conf under etc folder. Charging the phone at the same time might also cause a higher temperature
[Nexus 4 General] younix258:
Very thorough, i like your style. Grats on results and my .5mm copper mod was humbled by your .6mm silver lol. I would really appreciate it if you could run the same test but with system tuner or tempmonitor in the background measuring CPU temps. Id like for you to check to see if throttling happens precisely as battery reaches those temps or if its cpu temps and we just happen to be confusing them with also-increasing battery temp throttle
[Nexus 4 General] morrislee:
I actually logged it via adb over wifi and using continues watch to log both batt info and cpu speed :P no need for another app haha
[Nexus 4 General] younix258:
Im not asking for cpu speed, im asking for cpu temperature
[Nexus 4 General] morrislee:
Ohh, my bad.

But yes, it happens at battery temp, not cpu temp. thermald.conf file is very specific that it is referring to the battery temperture, not the cpu temp ;)
[Nexus 4 General] younix258:
Okay so i ask again, can you run a trail keeping an eye on cpu temp reported by system tuner or tempmonitor
[Nexus 4 General] morrislee:
Battery at 33.6c and cpu at 43.0c , still runs max at 1.51GHz.

This is what you are asking right? :S

Like i said, the thermald.conf looks at batt_them value, and then there are clock speed profile next to each temp threshold that we observed the throttle.

Throttle is only used to keep the battery temperature down so it does not overheat and explode. Silicon chips usually can handle 0 - 100c, pretty robust.

Let me know if you have any other questions ;)
[Nexus 4 General] younix258:
Thats what i was asking for lol. Just i feel like the cpu temp is what generally determines whether or not it throttles. Battery temp has no good reason to rise immensely, youre just putting a bit more load on it and heating up the environment a little more.
[Nexus 4 General] morrislee:
Actually, I recall CPU has its own, on stock, I think there was something about 75c to shutdown.
[Nexus 4 General] jaggyjags:
ok, so after some time waiting for others to report their results after trying the mod I decided to try it myself.

here are the pics, a bit too much thermal paste won't be harmfull, right? lol

The thing is I still reach the first throttling level under the 2 minutes mark. I have to say that I it is very hot were I live and always I start from over 28ºC the stability test but still it takes more than before the mod and what I reaaly notice it the phone no longer feels unconfortably hot after heavy gaming with battery plugged.
[Nexus 4 General] vollmilch:
Lol that's a lot dude. This could do more harm than good. Take just a "drop" underneath and on top of your conductor ;)

Gesendet von meinem Nexus 4 mit Tapatalk 2
[Nexus 4 General] undercover:
Make sure your paste is not conductive or capacitive :eek::eek::eek:
[Nexus 4 General] jaggyjags:
I guess it isn't. It went all over the board and no problems what's so ever. Next time i will be more careful, but thermal paste isn't conductive at all for what I know...

Capacitive can be, that is no problem over the board.
[Nexus 4 General] Rusty!:
Thermal paste can be conductive, out depends what type you use.
[Nexus 4 General] MisterWinkey:
Here is my last test.....

Franco undervolt by -75 so its 825mv at 385mhz

Time to first was 7 min....it was over 12 min before I gave up on the second throttle.

This setup benchmarks well also over clocked.
[Nexus 4 General] espionage724:
So... would using a copper penny be possible? Pennies made before a certain date afaik were made from pure copper, and pennies after that date are a mixture of copper + other stuff.

My quick search of a penny's thickness is around 1.5mm.

I used pennies as heatsinks in the past after hearing about someone doing the same with Xbox 360's memory chips. Used to use pennies on my computer's GPU memory chips, and it worked quite nicely.

Edit: It seems not; I re-read the thread and the thickness of the object in-use should be around 0.5mm...
[Nexus 4 General] undercover:
You could always take a file to it. By the time you take off imprints and edges you should be down to about 1mm.

Sent from my microwave oven. Make: LG Model: N⁴
[Nexus 4 General] jaggyjags:
I guess too much thermal paste works :)

I got bored after 20 minutes. Placed the phone on a wooden table while was testing it. The surface really matters.

Faux123 latest beta and UV -150mV

Nominal binning CPU.

CPU at 61°C after the test.
[Nexus 4 General] undercover:
Iirc mine hasn't got higher than 58 after mod.

Sent from my microwave oven. Make: LG Model: N⁴
[Nexus 4 General] atsimeri:
Help

I did the modofication using thermal paste and copper BUT the sceen and the back get hot under normal use. Is this how it is supposed to be? I mean this indicates maybe there is a thermal dissipation as inteded OR something went wrong.

My battery temp now starts over 30 C when room temp is about 27 C.

Please help me out
[Nexus 4 General] jaggyjags:
I really didn't experience much of a change in battery temperature. battery gets hot when it supplies energy (mainly to the cpu) and you must not be worried until it reaches around 55-60 (which it won't). I have a max of 44 when playing intensive games and plugged and thus is as high as it goes, inside a warm room.

What this really makes a difference is in the cpu temperature. Before the mod it reached 70C VERY soon and now it just reaches around 65 when testing stability for a couple of minutes, so it avoids thermal throttling. (it throttles at 70)

It also feels much cooler on the back as it was mainly the cpu that heated it. Check the cpu temp when testing stability and report back what the sensor reads after around 2 minutes.
[Nexus 4 General] atsimeri:
Just did the stability test

Start: battery temp 30.8 C

End: 1242 MhZ after 1m 21s and battery temp 37 C

You see in the third image that when the cpu was throttled at 1242 MHz the Cpu temp was 58 C.

The devoce was warm on the screen and the back after 1m21s (throttling)
[Nexus 4 General] jaggyjags:
Yes, I guess you are using stock kernel. This throttles when battery reaches 37 no matter what the cpu temperature is which is useless (if battery is not over the 50C mark at least) . Using franco kernel and with the default settings it will throttle at 70C cpu temperature so you will no longer have throttling issues as cpu temp is much lower now thanks to the mod.

Edit: I don't remember exactly what cpu temp was before the mod after gaming but phone was very uncomfortable to hold due to the excessive heat from the back. Now it is just warm.
[Nexus 4 General] red_horn:
Maybe if there is a hard mod for weak mobile signal would be great too :D

Any other user have the problem with mobile signal drop when we hold the device.

Maybe u can help us ?:)

Change the modem not take effect with this, i had did it.

http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=40343

Thanks