yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Nexus 10 General] Fasty12:
Planning to return my N10 cause the stuttering on it is driving me insane and im really interested in the Tablet Z currently.

1920x1080 on an 1.5GHz Qualcomm APQ8064 with adreno 320GPU VS 2560x1600 nexus 10 with an exynos 5 and a mali t604 GPU clocked at 1.7 GHZ.
[Nexus 10 General] EniGmA1987:
The S4 is halfway between the Cortex A9 cores and the new Cortex A15 core that we have. So it is decent enough of a CPU. I am not sure how good of a GPU that is. None of my devices the past couple years have had Adreno GPU's At least it wont have to work as hard with the lower resolution
[Nexus 10 General] styckx:
What stuttering are you talking about?
[Nexus 10 General] BarryH_GEG:
Draw your own conclusions. ;)

S4 Pro - http://www.anandtech.com/show/6112/...agon-s4-apq8064adreno-320-performance-preview

Exynos 5 - http://www.anandtech.com/show/6148/samsung-announces-a15malit604-based-exynos-5-dual
[Nexus 10 General] enik_fox:
From everything I've seen and experienced the exynos 5 is the better of the two. The a15 is a more powerful core than the krait core, that with the higher clock speeds and the better GPU makes for a better chip. Personally I have never had my n10 lag at all. Maybe you just got a dud?
[Nexus 10 General] kaspar737:
But the Exynos 5 has to run that massive screen res. Also, the reason I think that Qualcomm modified the core was because of the power consumption. Stock A-15 core consumes quite a lot of power.
[Nexus 10 General] avdaga:
Every now and then I read ppl complaining about lags and stutters... I have not experienced one since I have the device; can you please explain what you are doing when this happens?
[Nexus 10 General] Fasty12:
Try opening and closing google maps after the map has been loaded there is a NOTICEABLE frame rate drop compare to other apps.
[Nexus 10 General] EniGmA1987:
The Snapdragon S4 does not use an A15 core or any derivative of an A15. Qualcomm has ALWAYS completely designed their cores custom and has almost nothing to do with the current major core from ARM's reference design. Additionally, the S4 was designed and released before the A15 MP-Core was even finished with its design phase.

The Krait core uses a similar (but not the same) triple wide decode stage like the A15 core, but it uses a completely different 11 stage execution pipeline compared to the A15's 15 stage pipeline. The higher stages of the pipeline allow the A15 design to break things down smaller and achieve higher frequency, but if there were to be a failure in computing then the A15 must wait a longer time before it can start over where the Krait core doesnt have to wait as long, but also isnt as efficient in " normal" circumstances. Honestly the integer performance between the two cores is pretty close, but I think I remember seeing that the A15 has a lot stronger floating point performance. So I guess it really depends on your workload.

FYI, the Exynos 5, Tegra 4, and TI OMAP 5 processors are all based on the A15 core design. Qualcomm is the only major player who does not base their processors on the ARM design
[Nexus 10 General] avdaga:
Do you mean a drop in framerate during the animation when closing Maps? I notice a minor framerate drop which lasts as long as the animation does, but if that is it, I'm kinda wondering why you bought an android device in first place... I have not noticed this before and I cannot imagine anyone would using the device for its intended purposes. If you take any android device, you will find a fps drop at some point... Maybe return it and take an iPad? iPads do not have the issue, on the other hand there's a lot that iPads do not have ^^
[Nexus 10 General] :
Exynos has higher memory bandwidth so the difference isn't substantial.

---------- Post added at 01:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:29 PM ----------

THANK YOU!! my god I've had to explain this so many times! Qualcomm licenses ONLY the armv7 instructions and not arms designs. They design their own chips from the ground up and GPU, so please people stop saying Qualcomm is a cortex series processor because it isn't. Samsung and the rest license arms design and modify it, in Samsungs case they tend to increase the IPC slightly and give it more memory bandwidth.

Also to answer the question, exynos 5 will do better at higher resolutions and they will be very close in lower resolutions. S4 will be better in multi thread workloads more then likely and exynos will have better float performance. Exynos is better for games once the thermal throttling is fixed.
[Nexus 10 General] kaspar737:
The 50 percent extra memory bandwith doesn't matter so much considered that the Exynos has to move almost twice the amount of pixels.
[Nexus 10 General] :
Memory bandwidth makes a pretty big difference when it comes too resolutions. I.E 8600gt ddr2 vs ddr3. Wider memory bus and faster memory makes a big difference in higher res performance of any GPU

Also will help with GPU compute performance for future apps utilizing the Mali t604s compute abilities
[Nexus 10 General] kaspar737:
But lets say that Exynos uses the whole 12.8 gb/s bandwith. That means that to move twice as less pixels you would need 6.4 gb/s so memory bandwidth isn't an issue.
[Nexus 10 General] :
But that bandwidth is shared, unlike on dedicated GPU where it isn't. The total system bandwidth (not including buses for modem or w.e others are there) on the exynos chip being higher is gonna give it the edge in any situation considering the closeness in performance between the two. It also can't be denied that the Mali t604 has a edge in horse power over adreno 320 because even at the n10s resolution it comes within a couple fps of adreno at 1080p resolution. Not saying it's a big difference, but the exynos is the more powerful all around chip and that's just in is dual core form.

Edit: Also its a known fact that Adreno has crap fill rate compared too Mali or Power VR, Adrenos Strength is Geometry performace so it takes more of a hit the higher the resolution than Either the Mali t604 or the SGX 554MP4 which both have higher Fillrate and the SoC we have to compare both have higher bandwidth to facilitate that so we dont get bottle necked.
[Nexus 10 General] _delice_doluca_:
Finally a lot of exerts here about GPU :)

, I know it is not related to topic but me and my girlfriend have Galaxy Note 2 and S3. As you all know they are the last ones to use the elder Mali-400 GPU. I love playing games and I am getting my girlfriend used to them too. So I was wondering how is our Mali400 GPU holding up against the new coming 1080p Adreno 320 devices? It is clear the future is 1080p. I am either planning to switch our devices with a couple of Nexus 4s or Xperia Zs. Because I fear our devices are about to be outdated with the next game right around the corner. So far they are doing just fine with Modern Combat 4 and the all other graphic intensive games by playing over 28-30 FPS. But according to the GLBenchmark 2.5Egypt they are useless against new Adreno 320. However I have read that most of the games were designed for high fill rate power and Mali 400 is able to beat Adreno 320. But on the triangle tests, it just bottlenecks.

So what is your opinion about it? I will our devices do another year and half for the new games? Or should I make the trade? Or should I just buy a Nexus 10 with 2 users assigned and continue games on it? I :)

Thank you for reading.
[Nexus 10 General] Fidelator:
They will hold on, my SGS2 runs all of the current games at the highest settings ( I haven't tried GTA though) without any issues, the Adreno 320 is far better than the Mali 400 MP4 though
[Nexus 10 General] EniGmA1987:
Ya, Im pretty sure they will still play games a year from now. Until the market is completely saturated with devices like the Nexus 10 in power we wont really see large jumps in system requirements. That will probably only happen a year or two from now once all the new phones and tablets are made with A15 processors (or Qualcomm equivalent) and beefy GPUs.
[Nexus 10 General] kurono2:
The S2(Mali400) plays GTA3 without a hiccup.
[Nexus 10 General] Jayrod1980:
The exynos dual is very power hungry compared to the s4pro but it is also the most powerful arm processor out today. Nothing else yet released (I said RELEASED) is as powerful or can match its bandwidth. Having said that I'm sure a normal resolution 1080p screen in this form factor with the s4pro would be a nice fast tablet. Right now the exynos dual is pretty much the only thing outside apple that can push the resolution that the n10 has. I think if they had put another gig of ddr3 in this thing there wouldn't be so much stuttering in certain instances. Besides the thermal cutoff the n10 is starved for memory as it has to share normal duties and its ram with the graphical load of pushing all the pixels of this monster resolution. You are lucky to have 300mb of ram available at idle on the n10 vs over a gig available with the s4pro on the 720p screen of the nexus 4

Sent from my often RMA'd Nexus 4, So that I can use the one I'm using now when I get the 6th and hopefully final one.
[Nexus 10 General] Fasty12:
So in your opinion which will run better in term of general ui responsiveness the z or the n10?
[Nexus 10 General] beeboss:
I think Z will be lil more fluid
[Nexus 10 General] bee55:
In terms of general UI responsiveness it's basically impossible for anything to beat the current gen Nexus devices, simply because of their software. So I would say the N10 is probably smoother in UI even if it's relatively weaker compared to the Z.
[Nexus 10 General] bonanza228:
I say S4 pro all the way
[Nexus 10 General] EniGmA1987:
^^^^^

Epic first post.

Welcome to the forums.
[Nexus 10 General] digitalrurouni:
Have you guys ever considered that Android is at fault and not actually the hardware? That the software is not optimized to take advantage of all the benefits that the new processor from Samsung has to offer?
[Nexus 10 General] EniGmA1987:
In what way do you mean we are not getting the full benefits of the new architecture?
[Nexus 10 General] BarryH_GEG:
If the N10 had a S4 Pro/Adreno 320 SoC it's highly unlikely people would notice a performance difference one way or another. The biggest impediment to the N10's performance is its resolution and the enormous amount of pixels it's pushing. Adreno and Mali in their current forms would be equally taxed by it. Adreno is known to be a more balanced GPU in dealing with shading (video, pics, screen renders) and vector graphics (gaming) fairly equally. Mali is better in shading and not fantastic at vector (although it’s somewhat improved in the Mali 604 used in Exynos 5).

The answer to your question would be the XZ. Its display at a more traditional 1080P would be less taxing on the GPU and take less memory bandwidth away from the CPU. But... It's running a Sony overlay and depending on how heavy and/or well written it is that could affect its perceived fluidity and usability.

As someone else said, S4 Pro is more battery efficient. It only fires up the third and fourth cores when it detects heavy load. So for routine stuff like web browsing it's idling at a lower speed than can be accomplished with two A15 cores in Exynos 5. But, architecturally, A15 is more efficient so the difference is less pronounced. In the long run the XZ is going to be haunted by its way too small 6,000 mAh battery and S4's not going to be able to overcome that.
[Nexus 10 General] digitalrurouni:
.

Anyone who hands programmed on new hardware will tell you familiarity is very important to get the most out of the hardware. Ps3s are a good example. Look at uncharted 1 vs 2 vs 3. Progressively they were able to get more out of the hardware to execute more complicated graphics etc and features as then developers got more familiar with the PS3s hardware. Same with the Exynos 5 SoC. Its the new A15 architecture that just came out. Google and Samsung will hobe writing software to take advantage of what that architecture brings to the table. Its more in the software where performance improvements come from isn't that why we are always try king different ROMs and kernels in this forum?
[Nexus 10 General] EniGmA1987:
Well ya I know that stuff, but what I was asking is what is wrong with things currently that are not working well with the new architecture? I really dont see anything IMO that has to do with Google or Samsung. The only people I see as needing improvement are the lazy 3rd party dev's who have just taken too many shortcuts in their code and the app doesnt even work on the Nexus 10, or just adding higher res rendering options which is more the screen that CPU architecture anyway.
[Nexus 10 General] Jayrod1980:
The n10 stutters rarely for me. Like I said, it is ram starved. Plus it has arbitrary throttling that doesn't seem to be heat induced per say but rather consumption induced. If the GPU and CPU are running full blast they could theoretically do 8W Tpd. That is hot for sure but it would also suck the battery like a sieve. The n10 attempts to keep total draw around 4w so it throttles the CPU and GPU accordingly. There is no doubt right now that the s4 pro architecture is more power efficient. The exynos 5 dual crushes the s4 in raw power but is probably uses at least 2x more power at full throttle. If the s4 pro tablet was 1080p with a decent IPS screen and an aosp device a LA the nexus 10 it would have no problem matching or beating the n10 in smoothness. The soc is already used in 1080p phones and benches higher than the n10. The guts of the tablet compared to phone are relatively the same.e with the main difference being a more power (but probably not CPU) hungry display due to the size difference between a 10 inch screen and a 5 inch screen. I've not done the math but I believe the n10 resolution equates to something like 2x or more the pixels to push which means even in mundane tasks the n10 is committing a majority of its bandwidth to power that screen.

Sent from my often RMA'd Nexus 4, So that I can use the one I'm using now when I get the 6th and hopefully final one.
[Nexus 10 General] BarryH_GEG:
Who can blame them?

"It's also possible that the Exynos 5 Dual in the Chromebook is allowed to burn a bit more power, translating to better performance, but either way the solution here in the Nexus 10 doesn't look as good across the board. BrowserMark puts the Nexus 10 behind many platforms that should be faster, I'm even wondering here if there's some

hard partitioning of memory bandwidth between the CPU and GPU to drive the 2560 x 1600 display that's simply choking the CPU here."

http://www.anandtech.com/show/6425/google-nexus-4-and-nexus-10-review
[Nexus 10 General] derrick603:
Out of curiosity, where does it show that the N10 is RAM starved?
[Nexus 10 General] espionage724:
We have 1.6GB of RAM (technically 2GB, but 400MB of that is just for the GPU). Commonly, most people seem to idle around 1GB used (can be more or less depending on usage). This leaves 600MB free. Heavy apps and games don't leave too much more free, and multitasking is pretty limited as well.

Although Android is supposed to handle memory usage pretty well, so the 1GB (or so) used on idle probably has processes that can be removed if needed.
[Nexus 10 General] derrick603:
I would imagine that the 1GB used at idle includes buffers and cache, otherwise JB would be unusable on 1GB devices. Unless there is evidence to the contrary, I have a hard time believing that it's truly RAM starved with 2GB on board, even if some of it is used by the GPU.
[Nexus 10 General] espionage724:
I suppose that's true, but if I recall right, I think someone mentioned the Nexus 4 (also having 2GB of RAM) idles at a far lower value. I don't have one myself to verify though.
[Nexus 10 General] BarryH_GEG:
RAM's not a performance issue, there's plenty of it. The move to 2GB started with S4 because Adreno reserved 350MB for itself. Samsung's S4 devices had 1.6GB (out of 2GB) RAM free and HTC's had 650MB (out of 1GB) free which made them a multitasking disaster. Adreno in S4 Pro reserves 500MB for itself. Even with only 650MB of free RAM the HTC One X's didn't have performance issues because if RAM was needed by the app in focus memory manager would just kill everything in the background. And there's no app yet that

needs

that much RAM. However apps will enlarge their caches as a percentage of free memory and the OS will keep them resident longer because the memory limit is higher.
[Nexus 10 General] i9100g user:
Performance wise exynos 5 better than s4 pro

Nexus 10 if I had to choose,overall more powerful regardless of resolution and a bigger battery also it is a nexus device :D

sent fromXperia sT21i
[Nexus 10 General] :
What? Adreno balanced? XD lol! Adreno 320 has maybe 1/2 the fill rate of Mali t604 and t604 matches it in geometry performance. Adreno has always been fantastic at geometry and piss poor in fill rate. At the higher resolutions adreno will loose to Mali 604 every time. Adreno and Mali at n10 res, Mali will beat it by a decent margin. In lower res they will be around the same but power vr and Mali are the power houses of the mobile GPU world when it comes to resolution. Also everyone needs to understand that geometry performance isn't the key in mobile games or in higher resolutions, it's texture performance and memory bandwidth that make or break it which Mali handily beats adreno in both.

An old case of this is old adreno (205-220) vs sgx540, it's beats 540 in geometry but not fill rate so 540 beats it in gaming.
[Nexus 10 General] i9100g user:
Htc droid dna(1920x1080,adreno320) in onscreen benchmark (glbench) averages 28fps and nexus 10 in onscreen(2560x1600,Mali t604) averages 27fps

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[Nexus 10 General] i9100g user:
Single core performance comparison

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[Nexus 10 General] :
Way more pixels to fill at n10 res vs 1080p. N10 off screen 1080p gets 37fps...point proven c: Mali better
[Nexus 10 General] i9100g user:
Yes Mali t604 is better than adreno 320 (everyone knows that,I guess) but the point is with that resolution you won't see a difference in onscreen performance.

(2560x1600&mali t 604 =27fps vs 1920x1080&adreno 320=28fps)

But with same resolution on both Mali t 604 outperforms adreno 320

That xperia tab is also having 1080p screen right?

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[Nexus 10 General] :
Oh def, 1080p is adrenos 2560x1600 so performance between the 2 tabs will be equal c: I was saying in regards to people claiming adreno could handle the n10 res and it can't :P so unless you really want a diff tab no reason to get rid of the n10, you won't see a diff

PS I see people who seem to think the s4 pro can handle more than the exynos 5 and that's not the case so I make sure to point it out. The n10 has thermal issues that's the cause of any lag
[Nexus 10 General] i9100g user:
Right:D,personally with performance equal on both I would take the one with bigger battery,higher resolution display and ofcos vannila android:D

(most solid reason)

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[Nexus 10 General] digitalrurouni:
Out of curiosity what lag are you guys talking about?

Also performance wise if you have any doubts just run the Epic Citadel demo from the Android play store. I ran both on my Nexus 4 and my Nexus 10. Nexus 4 has a bit higher frames per second as the Nexus 10 and resolution is over twice or should I say 4 * between devices. That should put to rest how powerful the graphics processor is inside the Nexus 10.
[Nexus 10 General] :
Apparently people lag in some games, but any other "lag" IDK? :P
[Nexus 10 General] BarryH_GEG:
At what? Mali does great with fill rates but doesn't perform as well in triangle tests which has always been a weakness. It's performnace falls flat with high polygon counts. Mali isn't a unified shader architecture, and explicitly features more pixel shader hardware than vertex shader hardware which is why Adreno does better in vertex and fragment lit triangle tests. Adreno should perform better at gaming and Mali at everything else.
[Nexus 10 General] Tomatoes8:
You guys are over thinking this entirely. Just go to the app drawer on the Nexus 4 and the app drawer on the Nexus 10 and methodically scroll through both of them. Notice the stutter or drop frames while scrolling to the 3rd widget page on the Nexus 4? While there is none on the Nexus 10?

The Nexus 4 is only pushing 1280 x 768 too so you can imagine how poor the S4 pro will perform at full HD.
[Nexus 10 General] i9100g user:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/6425/google-nexus-4-and-nexus-10-review/2

Look for offscreen benchmarks

[QUOTE[=AnandtechB]The T604 is ARM's first unified shader architecture, which gives it far more balanced pixel/vertex shader performance. The result is a more than 4x increase in triangle throughput compared to the Mali 400MP4. It's not enough to give the Nexus 10 the edge over the latest Apple devices, but it's a huge improvement over where ARM was in the previous generation. [/QUOTE]

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[Nexus 10 General] :
We are talking malit604 not 400, 400 was poly weak, t604 is not even close to poly weak and is unified. Only one not using unified arch now afaik is nvidia. Go to Glbenchmark right now and compare n10 to an adreno 320 device

---------- Post added at 11:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:33 PM ----------

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[/QUOTE]

Nevermind, results posted ty c:

Wat I find odd is the drop in fill rate @1080p makes no sense o. O

Mali t604 still on avrg bests adreno 320 by 5-15fps (sometimes more) depending on the test

Mali in exynos 5 is not the same as mali in exynos 4. Looking at about 4-5x mali400 performance in most areas which is right in line with what arm said. They dont jerk ur chain it seems, they give u a performance estimate thats pretty honest

---------- Post added at 11:51 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:38 PM ----------

Is that with force gpu rendering? Could be the cpu not ramping high enough as most ui interactions are still rendered on cpu.
[Nexus 10 General] Tomatoes8:
Another way to look at it is the Exynos 5 isn't plausible to use on mobile phones in its current state and is the only CPU designed to push 2560 x 1600. That suggests that the engine is like an 18 wheeler engine while the S4 is a coupe engine. Huge power difference right there. One is designed for Chrome Books and another for phones. You do the math.
[Nexus 10 General] EniGmA1987:
A bigger and badder version of the Exynos 5 dual is being put into phones though.
[Nexus 10 General] :
But worth improved efficiency c:

A15 was never designed to ride solo, its meant for the bigLITTLE design to give it power efficiency and the muscle to plow through workloads

Exynos octa has 4 a15 for muscle then 4 a7 (I think it's a7?) For power efficiency and light work
[Nexus 10 General] i9100g user:
I think nexus 4 and nexus 10 were throttling during the benchmarks leading to some inconsistent.results
[Nexus 10 General] i9100g user:
Yes other 4 cores are A7

Here are some slides about exynos octa:cool: :

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