yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Nexus 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] jutezak:
There may have been something unclear or not totally thought out in the spec that has been fixed by now. Or maybe the test was not complete.

It is okay with me if the change is such that both Nokia charger and Nexus 4 were marginal devices in some way and newer chargers will also be okay with the older Nexus 4s.
[Nexus 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Nospin:
This.

Just because you don't have a Revision 12 device doesn't mean it isn't qi compatible, just that it fixed whatever problem was causing an issue with the nokia chargers. And if you wonder why there was a problem to begin with, somebody dig up the article where they explain how the Qi certification process is less than thorough.
[Nexus 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Peter1856:
Well lets see if it really works and someone can actually prove that the Nokia charger works fine with a rev.12 N4...
[Nexus 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] MontAlbert:
When new ones go up on the play store I plan on buying another to replace my rev10. I am sure I can get close to $400 for mine by then...

I purchased 3 qi chargers and the charging sucks. Will charge to 80% or so and then plateau off and not charge anymore, just continue to get hotter and hotter. I am assuming, and hoping, that the reason it doesn't work is a hw revision issue... Don't know for sure but willing to take a chance.
[Nexus 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] xdatastic:
I'm using a Rev_10 device from the first Australian batch and it charges to 100% just fine with my LG and Panasonic charger. What brand chargers are you using? With the heat issue, have you got the daydream feature on? I have daydream switched of and get no heat issues at all.
[Nexus 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Blazing angel:
I don't know if anyone will agree with me, but I feel that it will still have the problems with the nokia charger. Isn't it possible the European testers only received a rev 12, and decided to note that down? I doubt google would dedicate an entire revision to fix a problem with a single charger no?
[Nexus 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] FallN:
I'm not a very happy camper reading this. :mad:

Google should offer free Orb chargers to everyone that has rev10 & 11.... Because the last time I checked the Nexus 4 was sold to me as QI-COMPLIANT and compatible with ALL Qi chargers when, apparently, that's not the case. :o

Anyway, I will definitely be RMA-ing my Nexus 4 the second there's actual owner confirmation that HW rev12 does indeed work with Nokia chargers. Screw this.

Sent from my Nexus 4 or Nexus 7
[Nexus 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] jutezak:
I have a rev 10 and it charges fine with the Philips charger.

Goes up to 100% and stops charging, when down to 95% again tops up, etc.

Suppose this is what can happen when buying new tech - it does not always work everywhere in every case.
[Nexus 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] FallN:
The thing is we shouldn't have to be playing guessing games as to whether this charger or that charger works. That's the point of having a STANDARD! Qi is the standard in this case and rev10 & 11 are not fully compliant which is a problem. :(

Questions start running through your head like: What other chargers in the future won't work? What else on my device isn't fully compliant? Did I get stuck with a lemon and went through F5-Limbo-Hell for it?

Not okay. Definitely exercise your right to exchange your device once we have some Rev12 owners confirm.

Sent from my Nexus 4 or Nexus 7
[Nexus 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] purnah:
Well taken at face value from the information on the WPC website, Rev 12 is the one which is Qi certified. Given that those with other revisions have had some problems with some chargers (particularly Nokia) it does also mean that other revisions are not Qi certified. Otherwise, the WPC site would say Rev 10 or Rev 11. It will be interesting to see how Rev 12 behaves with wireless chargers and whether anyone is getting any problems once they start becoming available. I don't think Google went out their way to fix a problem with Nokia's certified chargers. They are building up a reputation for not providing support for their products on Windows Phone.
[Nexus 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] harlock:
I have a Rev 11. Got it in England on the 29th of Dec 2012.

The HW_Rev is called Hardware revision, the reason why is called HW rev is beacuse it is dependant on which hw you have.

So it is not possible to "upgrade" to any different hw_rev than the one you have, unless you change your phone and buy a new one.
[Nexus 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] MontAlbert:
I got my qi chargers from gadgets for geeks so it is an aftermarket one. Wasn't able to get any of the brand name ones in.. Amazon won't ship here and I wasn't willing to pay the extra postage to use a postal router. The guys at g4geeks have been great but they seem to be able to charge theirs ok but i have no doubt they will refund $ if asked... Quite a few of us cannot. My nexus 4 is first batch as well.

No day dream features on. Just a heap of heat and very little charging going on. I will try and link some screenshots tomorrow (typing in bed from nexus 7 atm).
[Nexus 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] formicae:
Where did Google ever say it was Qi compliant? Certainly never on the product page, it's always simply said 'wireless charging.'
[Nexus 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] J.L.C.:
Has anyone received a rev 12?

My RMA was just delivered today and it's another rev 11
[Nexus 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] neotekz:
The N4 works with all other Qi chargers except the nokia so maybe it's the nokia that is not fully compliant? do you even have a nokia charger or plan on buying one?

there is a sure way to make sure that future qi chargers will work with your rev 10 or 11 by waiting for it to be reviewed here. There's not many Qi phones out there so i would think any new chargers will make sure that they work with the N4 since N4 owners will be their biggest market.

Theres always hardware change between the first few batches when a new phone or tablet is released, this is what happens to early adopters all the time.
[Nexus 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] purnah:
The Nokia DT-900 is Qi certified. This is mentioned both on the box and documentation which comes with it, and on the wireless power consortium website. The Nexus 4 HW Rev 12 is also Qi certified on the wireless power consortium website. The website also confirmed that the Nokia charger works with Rev 12.

In addition, Nexus HW Rev 10 and 11 are not listed on the website and don't work with the DT-900. LG changed the Rev 11 to create Rev 12 and as part of that revision did something which enables the Rev 12 to work with the DT-900. (Though we are still to hear from anyone who actually has that set up and can testify this is the case.)

So it is fair to assume that the Qi certification reported on that website is a good guide to go by. If a Rev 10 or 11 Nexus happens to work with a wireless charger, it won't be anything to do with Qi certification.
[Nexus 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] milk242:
I thought I read on anandtech that both Nokia and the nexus 4 use the same TI qi chip.
[Nexus 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Lownita:
No! 11 is still the latest one being rolled out at this time.
[Nexus 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] FatalityBoyZahy:
+1 on this man. It's bad enough that we had to go through hell and back just to get our hands on this device. Google could at least release their charging orb already.
[Nexus 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] jutezak:
For any protocol with some complexity there are standards.

When the standard are new, there are also 'plugfests' - informal technical meetings of engineers in a hotel to check if their equipment works together.

Early USB devices did not always work together.

Early Wifi devices did not always work together

For every iteration of Ethernet (100bT, gigabit, ...) equipment did not always work together. Actually, some modern gigabit equipment still refuses to work together.

If you want to be assured, buy everything from a single manufacturer.
[Nexus 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] DrunkFuX666:
Iv been following this on various forums and threads as well if the rev12 started distribution yet... no word so far... still rev 11... if anyone does hear about it in someones hands then do post here... as ill do the same :)
[Nexus 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] purnah:
I imagined the only fix for issues with some Qi certified wireless chargers would be a hardware upgrade, but no it turns out that the 4.2.2 update fixes the issue with the Nokia DT-900. I updated last night and left my phone on the charger overnight - this morning it was fully charged. No issues with the charger - no cycling and no flashing. I'm impressed.

Here's what I think is relevant bit from the change log:
[Nexus 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] AnonymousPenguin:
Is this rev11? Does it work with a TPU case or something a few mm thick between the phone and the Nokia charger?
[Nexus 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] purnah:
My Nexus 4 is a rev 10 build. I haven't checked if it will work through a case, but from comments in other threads it sounds like it would be OK.
[Nexus 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] DrunkFuX666:
Anyone heard of anyone getting a rev 12 yet...??

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Q
[Nexus 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] gee2012:
No, afaik rev 11 is the latest.
[Nexus 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] io53:
Can you give an update on how the charging is working? Anyone else tried one after 4.2.2?
[Nexus 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] DrunkFuX666:
I think I read somewhere here that after the update, that nokia charger Is working even on rev 11...

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Q
[Nexus 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] dark_sat:
I have the Rev 11 with the last update... same issue with the Nokia DT-900. It cycles between charging and not charging, and after a few tries it does charge (with a few disconnections). I never seen the LED on the pad turn off though (as to fully charged).

What are you guys doing about the issue (do you experience it?).

--

I think I know what the problem is with this Nokia charger. If you take a look at the teardown, you'll see that it has 3 coils, while other Qi chargers only have one. I've disassembled mine and removed (did not cut it off, just put it aside) the middle coil, but the problem persists (could not test with the coil outside, would blink as an error). It seems that it has 2 magnetic sheets under the coils.

So, why it clicles? It seems to me that the charger is trying to decide wich coil is the best to charge the phone (the one that is best aligned) and the phone cycles when the plate is trying different coils. That's why sometimes it does work after a few tries.

BTW, I've reassembled my plate and it still works (even though I broke the thin magnetic sheet under the coils).
[Nexus 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] DrunkFuX666:
Your theory of having 3 coils versus 1 cannot be correct because this Nokia charger isn't the only Qi charger with multiple coils. Others have it too and the phone charges fine with then apparently.

For example you can check our the TYLT charger which has 3 coils as well aligned vertically... That works very well as far as reviews are concerned...

So guess need to keep hypothesizing as to what the problem may be...

Sent from my Nexus⁴
[Nexus 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Visa Declined:
I've gone through all of the Nexus 4 advertisements and documentation, I see where they say that the device supports wireless charging.. but that's it. The wireless charging functionality works great with the orb that they sell, so they've done their part and I'm happy. People threatening to rma their phones because it doesn't work with every wireless charger conceived need to get a grip.

I want Google to continue making great, inexpensive hardware for us. I still can't believe how great this phone is vs. how much it costs. Some people though are never happy, and are impossible to please unless you send multiple units for them to nitpick from here to eternity.
[Nexus 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] dark_sat:
So you mean, because it's cheap it doesn't have to work? Sorry, but it doesn't make sense. And I didn't blame the phone.

---------- Post added at 01:56 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:54 AM ----------

Each charger hardware may treat their coils differently. I just suppose that Nokia's switches on/off the unused coils.
[Nexus 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] dark_sat:
Well, I also was in a discussion with the Wireless Power Consortium (WPC), basically, they stated that the Nexus 4 indeed had an issue with the Nokia charger and it's hardware was revised. But when I mentioned the fact that no one can get one of the fixed phones, they had no word about it. I also mentioned that Google should recall the phones that don't work, again, no word about it.

You can see the back and forth on the attached files. Note that the e-mail in in inverse order.
[Nexus 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] scuzzbag87:
Man f*ck this. Wish I would of known about this stupid hw rev before I bought the Nokia 900 charger. What a waste. Just connects and disconnects all the time
[Nexus 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] wardy01:
What baffles me is no one bothers RESEARCHING before buying something. The same as using search in this dam forum.....

There are mixes reviews about the Nokia charger.and good reviews on chargers that work.

I have a rev10 and I use a flip nillkin case device charges to 100% on my Nokia dct900 charger fine....

Its simple really search the forum and buy 1 that will work 100% . no need to RMA or moan"why have lg done this or not listed it properly."

There is a compatible charger for every1.....

Cheers.
[Nexus 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] wapeye:
How I met my Nexus4

I feel your pain!

The Nexus4 problem:

Even I got the Dt-900 before doing the research. And I went mad. But I'm hoping to do something about it. And by the end of this post, you'd see some hope, or so I wish for all of us.

Now revision 11 is almost Qi compatible and the orb is made specifically for it. But it doesn't help that the Nexus4 either slips off the orb or sticks to it like a gecko while trying to lift the phone! Or that I have to align my phone more than half the time to get it to charge - this is fatal, all i wanted from my wireless charger was to get rid of the hassle of plugging in..and having to align is as disturbing IMO.

Other devices - Lumia 920, Samsung S4 (accessories), HTC Droid DNA, LG optimus are all Qi certified out of the box..all you need is a Qi charger.

Now here's my story:

I got the Nokia DT-900 few months back (Google's orb is not available in India) and had a tough time with my Nexus4, read so many forums on xda and otherwise to find the right solution. But everyfrickinbody has some issue or the other, whether with the Nexus4 or any other Qi phone (like the Nokia Lumia 920, HTC droid, etc.), people are unhappy with the products out there.

Now my old guy, with a couple of other old ones have this high freq inductor/transformer making workshop and I told them I want us to make a wireless charger, and do it right! They said we ain't got the money - ha! I said I don't need no money, I just need ur tech and tools..ur brains and grains! With a grin, it was okay'd And 2 months in, we've got the Qi compatible electronics ready and tested!! Now we just gotta design a good form. We even have a name - Qitah (say cheetah)...hehe, yeah.

The pain points we've addressed uptil now:

a) Phone Alignment - it's a 3coil configuration that allows free positioning. After all, what's the point of a wireless charger if you still gotta put in effort for the phone to charge

b) Remembering to charge - we realized while brainstorming that the major pain point is not of plugging in a wire with your wall charger..in fact it's remembering to charge your phone daily. Even if I forget to charge once a week, it's kinda disastrous. We are really working hard and smart to tackle this with the form design

c) Looks - Apart from the orb, all the other solutions (mostly pads) are uhhgly!! And the orb is so painful with 'sticky' issues. Hey, if the Qitah is to sit on your office/home desk, it better look so frockin awesome yet unintrusive that you feel great about it!

d) Travel/Incline - it's pretty sad that we either have pads or inclines in the market. We are hell bent on coming up with a travel friendly design to get rid of this simple pain point.

Here's where I need all your help..a lot of it! Tell us your pain points! tweet "@projecQitah", post on facebook - "projectQitah" and let us know what you want it to be like. I'll be following up on all suggestions/criticisms.

Cheers!

wapeye
[Nexus 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] eckbauer:
Just some INFO on the new Zens wireless charger that i got,which is not working on my new N4 REV11.The manufacturer of the Zens stated clearly that it works on the N4.The Orb from Google is not available in my Country yet.That why i got the Zens.

So the bottom line is,i need a N4 REV12 for it to work or wait for the Orb to be released,or am i missing something here?
[Nexus 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] dark_sat:
You should be aware that the DT-900 has 3 coils, and some even suggest that that's why it doesnt work properly with the nexus 4 (like if it keeps switching coils trying to get the one with best link).
[Nexus 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] wapeye:
You have a point..

Hey Dark_sat,

You are absoultely right that the 3coil config keeps looking for the coil which transfers power most efficiently. This is done because the 3coil config has to allow for spatial freedom. Now here's the difference between how a 3coil charger behaves with the N4 as compared to a Lumia920 (or any other Qi phone/tablet):

Lumia920: The charger will keep looking for the best possible coil and transfer power accordingly. The Qi phone will receive 5W of power. All along, the power transfer is not stopped. The ping cycle is about 400ms and even when another coil is selected for the next cycle, the transition is seamless and no point is the power transfer stopped to switch between coils!. That is how the Qi standard mandates selection of coils by the software.

N4: The losses in the N4 are too high for a Qi device, this means that the charger software interrupts the transfer, starts afresh to re-establish a new power transfer contract, selects the best coil out of the 3 and again starts charging. Repeat. This is what we see as cycling. IMO, this is the reason HW_Rev11 and earlier might not have got the Qi certification, but I may be wrong. It's quite frustrating because the better chargers are certainly those that allow for spatial freedom. I mean, if I still have to align my phone to get it to charge, isn't that as bad as the hassle of plugging in??!!

Why I say the losses are high in the N4 is because I've tested the charger electronics with various thresholds, even allowing upto 800mW of losses, which is 16% of the total 5W the N4 receives. This is about the maximum loss the Qi standard will allow...and the N4 still cycles between charging and no power at this threshold. When I hardcode the charger not to bother about losses at all, then there's no stoppage of power, although the search for best coil for power transfer is still on, as it should be, and when coils are switched, there is no interruption.

For the Qitah, we've come up with a special variant for N4's which will not have the cycling issue. It will still have 3coils and the spatial freedom they bring, and the form design remains the same, allowing for a great experience..well we're actually trying to eliminate any experience from charging :)

Thanks for the input, highly appreciate :)

keep an eye out for us at facebook : projectqitah
[Nexus 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] dark_sat:
Wow, very technically rich explanation, I liked it!

It seems you got it all. It may be a wrong assumption, but what changed between the certified N4 and the non-certified one is the coil on the phone, right? This way, by just replacing the coil it would work, huh?

Another thing is about spacial freedom. On the orb that I own, it is very good, I never get it wrong, you just put the phone to rest on it and it takes over, no need to realign or anything like that.

Hope your project takes off!
[Nexus 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] wapeye:
Thanks :)

Thanks a bunch for the compliments..and encouragement :) made my day! :laugh:

Replacing the coil with a Qi certified one seems like a solution.

Btw, is the orb too sticky sometimes? Or too slippery sometimes? I've heard this issue from a lot of folks..I love how the orb looks and feels, but this last mile thing has left me in doubt!

Cheers!
[Nexus 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] dark_sat:
I use a TPU case so the user experience must be a little different, but no, my Orb is not slippery, more on the sticky side. The rubber band is like a dust magnet, so you must clean it periodically, otherwise it will not stick properly. I've also heard a lot of people complaining about the phone slipping off the plate, and I think this design was not though thoroughly enough.

Flat plates may not look as sexy, but they don't pose this problems. And on the usability standpoint, let's be realistic, you won't use your phone on an Orb anyways, and if you do, it's very hard to do it. I really liked the design on the new LG Qi charger (the little round plate), I think it's a good looking design (and functional), just as the Nokia plates are.
[Nexus 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] wapeye:
Orbvious mistake

I've heard the dust magnet problem often..although I feel maintaining the charger is less disturbing than if the charger lifts off (and then crashes on your desk) when you try to lift your phone..that's a nightmare!

Bang on that the incline design needs to be thought through thoroughly..I've written in my blog that's exactly the reason why most of the chargers we see are flat forms.

I've tried to achieve betterment through design, let's see how it goes :)

I'd say that inclines, if designed right, can really provide a better, more productive experience - notifications and texting/whatsap like tasks shouldn't mean I have to pick up my phone. I'm too busy in my other screens for that :D

At least you've gotta have that choice. Wireless chargers of today are trying only to minimize management from a redundant task - charging. For them to be sexy, they'll have to go beyond this brief.

I do dream of the day when no charging is required..for that either wireless charging has to go the WiFi distance (which i think is less probable) or supercharger like technology will replace batteries (seems probable in early next decade)
[Nexus 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] dark_sat:
My rubber band sits between sticky enough to not let the phone slip but not sticky enough it doesn't really stick to it.

I don't think this design is very good though. The phone is wobbly when it's on it, so using it will make the phone move (also, how the hell are you supposed to unlock the phone? They didn't think of this!). Maybe a magnet approach would be better, BUT, it would very likely be problematic because you would have to hold the plate to remove the phone.

I'm with the idea that if a person is busy enough that they can't let the phone charge for a while without using it, they probably should use a fast wired charger. The Orb is a lot more for convenience than anything else, and I love it. I also believe the future is wireless charging, or no charging at all!
[Nexus 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] wapeye:
Wow, you're the happiest Orb owner I've met! I think I might get an orb too :) Not available in India though :(

The magnet approach is not so elegant - a) because the hold will be different for different weighted and sized phones. Palm touchstone worked because the charger and the phone were proprietary and not open designs

b) the phone design gets affected a lot - that would deter phone mfrs from adopting Qi charging

The WPC has, since the beginning, focused on keeping design demands on the phone side minimal while putting all the restrictions on the chargers side.

In fact, with the Qi 1.1 specification, WirelessPowerConsortium has advised manufacturers against use of magnet based solutions!

Cheers!